243 Win -vs- 6mm Creed (Which is better?)

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243 Winchester vs the 6mm Creedmoor: Is one better than the other? If you were born less than 20 years ago you may have not heard of the 243 Winchester, and if you are over 50 years old you may not know the 6mm Creedmoor exists. Let’s examine the differences between the two, "by the numbers".
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[@tacman2893]

243 Win. I am in Canada and finding 6mm Creed would be like finding an honest politician here! Pretty rare but not impossible. I am a hunter and I run a 243 with a standard twist. Your are right about 243 and you can pick it up just about anywhere even in our rural towns. Good video and nice rifles!

[@Michael-rg7mx]

One day, a politician knocked on Heaven's gates. He was escorted down a beautiful street to a fantastic mansion. He said, "Do you treat all politicians like this?" "No, you're our first!"

[@terryduprie6313]

The 243 Winchester was my first higher powered rifle (age 11) and it has been stellar. Many white tails have been taken with it and it's nice and easy to shoot at the range. Nothing against the Creedmore, but I'll stick with my 243.

[@BasedU.S.parriot1776]

Shy shoot a deer with a 243 when you get shoot it with a 300 win mag ?

[@dylankorpi137]

@@BasedU.S.parriot1776because it works. I shot my biggest buck ive ever taken on Michigan public land with a 243 when i was younger and was afraid of recoil. Deer never stopped by the bait, he kept on walking almost straight away. Little me seen that I could see body on his right side but not his left and put it just in front of the right side hind quarter and let it fly. Went through all the bad smelly organs and through the back of 1 lung and the top of the heart. Bullet exited out the front left shoulder. Blood trail was the best I’ve ever had on a deer in my life. Literally a humongous red carpet of a trail. Deer died in 40 yards. This was all with a 95 grain Winchester ballistic silver tip

[@ryanstever6906]

Love the 243 and its versatility. Being able to find more ammo in the current shortage is a big deal. I don't shoot competition and only hunt and shoot recreationally so the 243 works great.

[@dylanmatter1088]

6creed is all over no .243 here in pa

[@geothunder1971]

That’s the reason I started looking into the 6mm creedmore there’s ammo everywhere right now

[@danielback3236]

Great video, I kind of suspected this but it’s great you guys confirmed and taught me a few additional things too. I coyote hunt and deer hunt in East TN. Deer hunting is very rarely more than 100 and 300 is a long way for coyotes. My 243 will shoot 75 grain bullets 1 1/2” high at 100 that puts it 2” low at 250. Without adjustment my 100gr deer cartridge hits dead on at 100. So I currently carry it everywhere I go, just change out ammo depending on what I’m chasing. That’s my reason for the 243.

[@jackdundon2261]

ever try a 6mm rem?

[@BuckFoeJiden]

That's exactly why I went with 243 in my AR10. 243 also has some impressive capability at range if you're hand loading.

[@thatguyfishingben4794]

I'm from good ole east tn as well

[@dakotaburnette5353]

@@thatguyfishingben4794 I am as well

[@edjett2631]

@@jackdundon2261 6mm Rem is a fine cartridge; its only downfall is the marketing department of Remington.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Excellent content. Well done. Agree 100%. We have been running 243 in our family since the 60s. Dads, uncles, brothers & cousins. I just got a Ruger American Compact 243 for my youngest son. He harvested a little buck at around 100 yards for his first. Replacing 44 magnum rifle & AR15. The recoil is so manageable. It is very accurate with most factory ammo. I worked up moa load with 100 grain Hornady BTSP and Staball6.5. 2700 fps. Very happy. Thank you gents. I will stick with 243 for now.

[@kdean8129]

I started with Rem 700BDL .243 super accurate 70gr Nosler BT or Match at 3400 and 100gr Hornady RN or BTSP at 3151 that hits like lightning. I'll stay with that thanks. Added 2 Savages in .243 to play with. Accutrigger is brutal compared to aftermarket though.

[@BloodEagle.]

Love the .243 Winchester. Was my first rifle when I was a kid and I still have the Savage bolt gun. Absolute monster with 100gr Core-lokt PSP Remington ammunition and couldn't be happier for mule deer and smaller.

[@joemiller9314]

One of my favorite rifles for hunting is a 243 win. Have a traditional savage 99 for hunting and a custom Rem 700 with a 1-8 twist for target shooting. I reload therefore I am!!! Will stick with my 243’s, thank you.

[@stevemoyer8013]

Would you mind telling me what hand loads you are using? My daughters boyfriend has a model 99 that he got from his dad. He hasn’t ever hunted but wants to so I’m gonna teach him what I know. And I do hand load. Thank you for your time

[@joemiller9314]

@@stevemoyer8013 85 grain Barnes tsx behind Winchester 760 powder

[@Titan-iw7xv]

Easy solution, I have had a 243 for 20 plus years and love it but it didn’t stop me from “buying my wife a 6mm creedmoor to hunt deer with” now I have both to work up loads for and picking one is like picking ur favorite kid, I just can’t do it!!! Thanks for the info and keep up the good work!

[@vincentdimick7012]

This may have been mentioned in the comments already but Tikka is putting out 243 rifles with 1:8 twist now.

[@jaymiller393]

Neg.

[@Whitearrow01]

pass the teeker please............

[@winstonskafte5505]

Yes and its surprising how well they shoot lighter bullets as well.

[@jwjenkins421]

My wife grew up shooting 243 and that was the caliber she wanted when we got married. So that is what we got. We use it for some recreational shooting and hunting.

[@mrjeffjob]

I have a light .243 with a 9.25” twist for deer hunting. I also have a heavier barreled .243 I just got for coyotes. I got tired of the compromises. A 58 gr bullet that meets or exceeds a 22-250 for varmints but not heavy enough to really settle in for long shooting. But a great carry rifle for deer using 85gr copper bullets or heavier. Always swapping a 4-12 deer hunting to a 6-24 for varmints. Then I had a sudden realization that the proper solution to this dilemma was another gun! Problem solved. Had I started with no guns here I think I’d still go with the two same guns. I like the versatility of the caliber and I lean towards faster lighter bullets. I think with smaller game deer sized and under that hydrostatic shock kills cleaner. Now I do like the coppers hanging together and punching through so I have a blood trail. If I were to build a rifle I’d go with the .243 AI, 8” twist, 5R and a short freebore

[@outdoordoc1971]

I love my Remington700 in .243 win , with a fixed 4X. From groundhogs and bobcats to deer it sends them home!

[@bjerkerandersson3538]

I love this type of in detaild comparsions! Over here in Sweden a lot of people go from our old army caliber 6.5x55 to 6.5 creed, even in rifles with long action. Since it is near christmas, one may whish for such comparsion.

[@Greyzonecompliant]

Jag skjuter 6.5x55 men jag har sneglat på 6.5 prc. Men jag har svårt att övertyga mig att testa 6.5 creedmoor. Den verkar vara för lik 6.5x55. Vad är fördelen med creedmoor ?

[@huntingtheancientgroundsht5653]

I’d like to see a comparison of a .243 with a 1:7.7 twist vs 6 CM in 1:7.5 with the same projectile. Apples to apples.

[@CallumHepworth-Smith]

Defo....me too...can ya get the same speeds with both calibres, which is important when shooting copper bullets on game. Am currently running Barnes LRX 95gr @ 3150 fps in my 243 and looking into testing it to go quicker if i can find a node.

[@carypipes]

aint gonna happen these hornady fan boys gott apush hornadys bs

[@700Junky]

Splitting hairs. They will be identical. The 6CM only shines with the heaviest of bullets in factory twist. Identical rifles and, bullets and literally no difference.

[@jaymiller393]

Custom chamber -factory chambering. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@brianklamer3328]

Ruger used to offer their precision rifle years ago in 243 with a 1-7.7 twist.

[@bubba7626]

Because of the greater freebore tolerance in the 243 - you can shoot it for years without cleaning and it only gets more accurate... the coppering of the rifling has a contribution toward accuracy.. A great truck gun choice in my opinion. 😁

[@possumpopper89]

I inherited an old Remington 788 in .243. It only has an 18 inch barrel. My hand loads w a 100 gr Hornady psp is a little above 2700 FPS. It’s surprisingly accurate for a budget priced rifle and I have never had a deer run off. They have all dropped where they stood.

[@1976FORDJ]

I've got a RPR 243 with the 7.5 twist, and love it.

[@ukwan]

I'm still debating my first deer rifle .243 seems to be the one I'm interested in the most just due to availability and ability to use for Foxes.

[@RosaParksWasWyt]

Kill coyotes or a raccoon instead. Only an asshole kills a fox

[@jackdundon2261]

243 is a great rifle... the REASON your consider it, is its common, can you walk into ANY deer camp, and ask if anybody has a few spare rounds because you left your ammo at home. and SOMEBODY will have a 243. --- COMMON calibers is very important. (cheaper for ammunition too). 6MM CREED is a fad, and will fade. personally fav common callibers currently: 300 wm, 7mm rem, 30-06, 308, 243, 223, 22-250. - There are a lot more great calibers, but these seam to be the most common.

[@JonHunter80]

​@@jackdundon2261 the 243 is OK, the 6mm creed is better in many ways, I agree with you ultimately other than the fact that the 6mm creed is not a fad just like the 6.5mm creed, anyone who says such things think they know more than they actually do and make absurd assumptions because they are stuck in old mind sets and tradition, everything in life changes with time so you'd be wise to get with the times, its not 1955, its 2022, I'm sure some folks in 1955 also said the 243 was a fad. I guess somethings stay the same so it seems. I have neither of these cartridges as I prefer to hunt elk, moose or bison, so my rifles are chambered in 7mm rem mag, and 338 win mag for bison or stopping a bear attack. I would take the 6mm creed if I wanted to shoot targets or deer any day over the 243 win, sorry Jack but ballistics dont lie, unlike joe biden!! besides the necks of the casings dont stretch as long for the 6mm creed which means they last longer as long as you dont reload them too hot every time. some times newer is better, bud

[@jackdundon2261]

@@JonHunter80 I am a very avid hand loader, I see even now, 243 ammunition is cheap, almost not worth reloading it. The 6mm credmore isn't cheep... as I recall the 6mm creed is simply a 6mm rem Ackley Improved? The only issue with the ongoing think OR FAST bullets, they deflect in brush or timber. - where I live that's a factor. I HAVE shot through trees to kill elk. Buy, a hopped up 375 RUM allows me to do that. I love the Ultra Mag, but, she's not cheep to shoot at all. But, when I want an elk to die, I take it! Is it a fad??? Probably...

[@kirbydennert9265]

My .243 is a factory Savage 110 High Country and it came from the factory with a spiral fluted barrel with a 1:9.25 twist.

[@thegeneral1100]

Actually I have both. I have a M77 II Ruger stainless (boat oar stock) 243, and a Howa 1500 heavy barrel 6mm Creedmoor. I don’t shoot competition so I don’t see a lot of difference between them, I pull the trigger and whatever is in my scope drops dead. That coyote or deer doesn’t seem to notice which bullet is going the fastest. I load my own so I have a variety of loads for both. If push came to shove I would pick the Ruger 243. There’s just something about that gun and caliber that I really like.

[@adamcuneo7189]

I have a Ruger M77 in .243 too, excellent rifle.

[@jeffabernathy1670]

Shooting a 243win Ar10 with a 1 in 8” twist barrel. Very accurate and very versatile. Necking down and outside neck turning 308win brass. Cant imagine that a 6creed would be enough difference to make a difference to me.

[@mikesimpson6757]

I have the .243 Winchester. It purchased the rifle for my wife for deer hunting since it is soft shooting rifle compared to a 30-06. I handload for it and have a wide range of bullet weights which she can shoot out of it. Since I am not using the rifle for competition, the .243 is the right choice for me.

[@Riderofridges]

Very informative content. I’m relatively new to reloading. With only a couple thousand completed cartridges under my belt. With the primary goal of making up cartridges that have acceptable accuracy and the ability to insure ethical standards for harvesting deer. We also enjoy punching paper at the range for this development. We are reloading .308 7.62x51 .223 and 5.56x45 and recently.243. My son has purchased a Lightly used Ruger precision rifle chambered in .243 and I have my trusty Ruger m-77 with 24” match grade barrel also chambered in .243. I absolutely enjoy shooting the .243 and have been fortunate to successfully harvest many deer with over the years. I usually just purchased quality 95 grain ammunition off the shelf offering acceptable accuracy. Since I’ve started reloading I find myself striving for greater and greater accuracy. It’s been an interesting journey so far with enjoyable outings with my sons at the range. Living in the country we also are fortunate to be able to push out to longer range shooting. It’s very satisfying to consistently hit targets at 5,6,7 and 800 meters. The entire process of learning to shoot accurately at these ranges has been challenging, frustrating and most of all satisfying. Steady resting, smooth trigger pull, wind holds and bullet drop compensation. There is a never ending learning curve it seems. I must say your videos have been instrumental in helping us develop our shooting and reloading experiences. We appreciate the information you share. My youngest son will be eligible to start hunting next season and this video has peaked my interest in the 6mm creed for his first hunting rifle. It will be nice to start working with a bit heavier grain projectiles. Thanks again UR / Ultimate Reloader’s.

[@chadjohnson5585]

I have rebarreled 243 with a 1-8 twist. I have run 103 ELDX’s since they came out and 105 Amax before that. No need for a 6creed for me. Thanks for the comparison video fellas. And my rifle sits in a KRG bravo as well.

[@kingrider75]

Same. I live 1/4 mile from Douglas barrel and I’ve been having my barrels cut with a longer throat for years to except longer heavier bullets. You can pretty much make your own “Creedmoor” in any caliber you want and it’s been that way for some time lol

[@TheBamidd]

My savage Axis in .243 has a 9.25 twist rate and I've had pretty good luck stabilizing everything from 50gr-105gr out of it. It definitely gets picky with some heavier projectiles and I have to be more careful about finding that powder and length sweetspot for good consistency but she does fine. I took that cheap hunting rifle, bedded it into a Boyd's wood stock, hand load for it and she's a 3/4 minute gun all day if I can do my part. I'll take it for less than 500 in the rifle and optic total.

[@TheBamidd]

But the way Gavin, really appreciate the video, excellent presentation and information. I feel 6mm cartridges are commonly overlooked considering their sheer versatility.

[@brianshaffer5090]

What kind of bullet jump are you seeing in that Savage?

[@TheBamidd]

@@brianshaffer5090 bullet jump as in my seating depth? For 87gr Berger VLDs I'm at ".110 off the lands and that will print tight cloverleaf 5-shot groups all day. I might be able to dial it down even further, but that's more than accurate enough for me. Best measured group was ".48 with an average of around ".7

[@brianshaffer5090]

@@TheBamidd I picked up a 6.5 creedmoor in a Savage Axis 2 for 200 bucks. Couldn't say no. It was only shot seven times . Haven't really got to mess with it other than to set up and make a few hundred yard shots to see where it was at and I wasn't even resting and was getting two and a half inches out of it.

[@Claybird85]

I built a similar rifle with the Savage Axis Heavy (Varmint taper) barrel, Boyds varmint thumb hole stock, SS 12x50 fixed. Super simple, super cheap, super accurate! I had a fantastic load developed with the 105gn A-Max which has now been discontinued 😔. Picked up a couple hundred 103gn ELD-X’s which Hornady claims will replace the 105gn A-MAX? Lord I hope so, my rifle loved those A-MAX’s!! I like custom rifles but it was also fun to do a budget build and I’m guessing you’d agree!

[@wesleymills6542]

It’s about time someone did a video on this. I have both. The data you presented I discovered 5 years ago.

[@JackColeman1952]

.243 Winchester is my choice and has been for around 60 years. The .243 has never disappointed me as a hunter, reloader, or target shooter. In my first .243, my favorite reload was using the 105 gr Speer Round Nose bullets over IMR 4831. It was a deadly game round and shot like a dream. My most commonly loaded bullet weights through the years are the 80 to 87 grain bullets. I have been wanting to try a Ruger American in .243. This video now has me looking for a compact model to celebrate my 70th year.

[@stevesweeney7892]

Go for it. My first deer came by way of 243. Extremely effective.

[@addauadda4862]

I was hoping you'd compare the two sometime. So glad I went with 6 creed. Can't wait to get out to central WA to try it at 600 yards +. 200 yards at Renton is too short.

[@mrjeffjob]

I’m near Renton. Where do you shoot 600 yards?

[@addauadda4862]

@@mrjeffjob I've been told there is a 600 yard range around Yakima. I plan on heading that way in the spring.

[@OzarkPrecisioNZ]

I've just re-barreled my 243 Win to a 243Ai 1:8 Twist in 22" as it's more a hunting rifle, I'm about to start load development as I've fireformed RWS brass for it. My projectile choice is the Swift Scirocco 90g and Hornady ELD-X 103g, looking at running Staball 6.5...

[@sandych33ks1]

22-250 with a 1 to 7 twist in a 26 inch barrel is the what the valkyrie should of been and would be a 224 valkyrie killer. Those 88 and 90 grain pills in 22-250 , and now you have something special. I'm in the process of doing this now.. Great video as always. Hunting ammo is more available than the 6 these days.

[@HondaRiderX17]

Ai?

[@russtuff]

AI for sure

[@zacmiller6741]

Why not just go with the 22 cm with alpha brass and a fast twist or even a gain twist barrel

[@tinfoilsombrero1439]

That is the same thing as the 250 Savage /250-3000 which is a deer slamming mo fo.

[@nathanielgray4235]

I did a bunch of research with that very same thing in 22 250 and I found out the 22 creed Moor is basically a 22 250 ai with a deeper throat and faster twist for longer bullets

[@alanniederlitz6950]

Great info and video! I was talkin to my father in law about 6.5 cr one day when he gave me the kinda one eyed scowel and groweled, " prove to me the 6.5 is BETTER than the 243...??? So because he challenged me i looked into it. As yall really concluded, it is up to the shooter to figure out which is better. Environment is key. My gunny sgt father in law spent 20 USMC and retired a gunny in i believe 1971. 1911s and reloadin for rifles... he knew his shit. R.I.P. gunny...

[@lokisullivan469]

What is the Stability of 75gr V-Max or 80/85gr in the 1:10 twist?

[@Patton243]

I have both. The Creedmoor just has a better case design that's about it.

[@Threegunmaster]

Since I dont load ammo anymore and don't plan to start again, the 243 Winchester is the clear choice for me. The selection of factory loads and availability is way better then the creedmoor.

[@bootarcher7586]

Would like to see you guys compare a 6.5-284 vs the 6.5 PRC

[@DSMattitude]

Iike to see you guys compare either 7 rem mag and 300 win mag, or 7mm-08 vs 6.5creedmoor.

[@Colicious89]

Yesterday I was wondering why this video didn’t exist. Here it is.

[@Gunrunner223]

I chose 243win, because, I wanted a dual use rifle, coyote / moderate long range plinker, and, I wanted to do a budget build. I bought my rifle during 2020, so options were small. I settled on a T/C Venture II with 1:10 twist. Mounted in a Boyds pro varmint stock that I glass bedded. Chose a Bushnell Engage 4-16 to put on top. Bullets were kinda hard to find, but ended loading a 70gr nosler ballistic for coyotes, and 90gr Hornady ELD X for deer/long range. Tried 95gr Berger VLD, but couldn't make it shoot better than 1" inch. (Wanted tighter groups) Rifle shoots consistent .6 at 100yds. The Venture has been a pretty good rifle so far.

[@thegeneral1100]

Try the Hornady 58gr ballistic tips for coyote and bobcats, they are great.

[@richardriordan9049]

MY Remington model 660 has a 1 in 9 1/4 twist rate reload a 100 grain boat tail soft point have great success at dropping white tails in there tracks every time. Have used this rifle for 40 years. Liked your video

[@ShooterB1]

I have been shooting 260 Rem before 6.5 Creedmoor came out. My 260 has a Krieger 8t and shoots great with reloads. I think its the same comparison as 243 and 6 Creedmoor.

[@tonyparrish2063]

243 hands down, and it works really well for long range kills many coyotes have taken dirt naps at over a thousand yards with the right load, and it is great for deer and I have a friend who has taken Elk with it also, I myself prefer something bigger for elk, but it has been done..

[@dimassalazar906]

243 because I already own one and love it. Bought my daughter a 243 Savage XP and tried it and went out right away and bought myself one. So accurate it's scarey!

[@kevinwood7358]

I would choose 243 Winchester, ammunition availability and reloading components availability. Also there's another 6mm and it's a Remington that I beleive stacks up a little better than the 243 Winchester. Good video guy's. Thanks, watching from Montana.

[@davidtolley1374]

I would love to see if there is any downside or limitation to the faster twist of the 6mm Creed. For a handloader trying to match the 243 Win with 55gr bullets at max velocity will the faster twist be accurate? Will it explode bullets? How fast is too fast for both velocity and twist?

[@josephk.4200]

My suggestion is go for a lead free projectile, all copper for example, if you want to run light bullets at high speeds with high twist. The lead is soft and is the failing component under strong gyro forces.

[@craigschaefer8764]

1. I’m a reloader. 2. I would choose the .243. I’m not sure I’m right on this, but I’m thinking the slower twist rate is better for the lighter bullets. Being a varmint hunter in the northeast, I value the lighter bullets. I’m thinking they might frag easier if I miss, and ricochets can be dangerous over here.

[@tbjtbj4786]

I am not sure i use the 6mm remington We my wife and brother use it to. We have used every thing form old remington loads with the original 244 destination which were 75gr to a costume 108 gr load. The 244 marked rifles had a slow twist and the 6mm remington marked ones was supposed to be 1-9. For us the 2 best factory loads was hornady 95 gr interlock and remington core lock 80gr But they were discounted. We started using the federal 80gr load. They have worked for turkey,bobcat,coyotes, deer, @ hogs out to 300yd just fine. And they shoot good in all of our 6mm rifles (7) They shoot the best out of my wife's 77 they will give you a 3 shot clover leaf group touching.

[@J-Plata-84]

Can you do a video on the .222?

[@_cal_techie]

I vote for the 243 Winchester. Take a look at the price of ammunition for each. The 6 Creedmoor is more than double the price of the 243 win.

[@nathanmccullough7755]

For me, the benefit of the newer, match oriented cartridges is that they all have the features that lend themselves to be accurate and useful. Generally tighter necks, free-bore suited to match type bullets, mag length with with match bullets seated, etc. Custom reamers in older, traditional, cartridges can get you to the same place or close, generally, but it seems that the newer cartridges are more universally accurate because they were designed specifically to be. You also tend to get better availability of good, match type factory ammo for the newer cartridges.

[@Yelladog78]

What do they have that lends itself to accuracy, please be specific

[@r.awilliams9815]

The Creedmoor is a better target round if you enjoy long-range steel banging, there's no arguing that. For the average Bambi hunter, there isn't any significant difference, either in trajectory or terminal performance.

[@j.t.patton7820]

@@ddn79 I agree completely. All the Creedmore cartridges are nothing but marketing garbage...just Hornady trying to create a market by 'reinventing the wheel'.

[@stephenland9361]

@@ddn79 "... the average Bambi hunter..." likely doesn't reload, rarely takes shots at deer over 200 yards and couldn't care less about maximum possible velocity. Said hunter uses factory ammo, probably sticks to a favourite brand and bullet that has always performed well, has used the same rifle for decades and has zero interest in 'the latest and greatest'. I reload for my .243 and have stuck to the recipe that I first worked out 35 years ago. It has never failed. I don't recall ever running it over a chronograph. Deer don't care what velocity the bullet had when it passed through it's boiler room.

[@wartbiter]

Is that a Nikon scope on the 243 ? I really wanted one - pity they closed down the scope business.

[@peterh7841]

Only just saw this feed. I have a .243 Parker Hale that is 47 years old. Nostalgia says I keep it and put a new barrel on with 1:8 twist and convert to AI specs. 🙂 Also, love to see a Ruger .375 v H&H .375. And an AI varient of the .243 v 6 Creedmore.

[@243Outdoors]

My Savage Model 12FV 243 has a 1-9.25 twist. I have stabilized 105g bullets but prefer the 90-95g range. However it really doesn’t like the lighter 6mm bullets.

[@gregwickersham1390]

I have a savage m12 lrp with the same twist, glad you posted that, I never tried the 105s just in case since I don’t have anywhere far enough to shoot to make a difference, and not sure if they’d stabilize. As for lighter bullets, mine shoots 70 grain Sierra blitzkings with imr 4064 like a champ

[@cameronking7905]

Thompson Centre offer a 1 in 8 twist. being the T/C compass

[@robertbutler8005]

Great Breakdown. Def pick a custom 243 with a 1-8 twist barrel. That way you get the ability to play with the longer bullets and can peacock around the rage and say your not a Creed fan boy......... a lot of extra work to avoid the creed that does the job so well.. but worth it if you love to play what if with rifles. Thanks for all the hard work putting these together.

[@Mike-xi4zt]

If you already have a custom 243 adding a 6mm Creedmoor just creates more clutter and more expense for no reason. Nothing to do with bragging about anything.

[@wallerwhittemore6563]

With all the ammo options for 6 creed nowadays it’s really turned into a great option. I use it for everything from whitetail and pigs down to coyotes. My Gunwerks chambered in 6 creed is an absolute laser

[@kentuckywindage222]

I've owned a .243 Winchester for many years. The 1/9 twist Ruger 77 put 100gr bullets through varmints to whitetail. 425 + or - a tad for deer. 500 for varmints with a MPR setting and 4x12 Leupold. Today my 243 is a Tikka super light 1/10. I shoot 80gr ttsx in Lapua brass under IMR4064 lit with CCI large rifle primers chronographed at 3410 fps. 85gr Gamekings at at 3200 fps. Just won't take the long shots like 425 with these bullets on deer. George Garner chose 115gr bullet at 3150 fps, (I think) for Tactical Competition. Something about the reliability feeding with the shoulder angle I think. All custom of course but with a fast twist barrel 243 from manufacturer's would be a very competitive market! Sorry so long. Nerding out!

[@ronsorrentino6207]

In the video you asked if there was any other calibers you’d like us to compare. How about comparing the 6 Creemoor and 6.5X55 Swedish? Same barrel twist rate of 1:7.5 I believe.

[@pieterbreedt3448]

Can you make a comparison between 30 Nosler, 300PRC and 300 Win Mag?

[@tristanpalmer7]

243 is an obvious choice for me. It’s been around since ‘55 and still going strong. I’ve got a target rifle built around it that’ll put 109 bergers in a single hole. To be honest I think the 6.5 and 6 creed are reinventing the wheel since the 243 and 260 have been around so long. And the fact that everyone and their dog has a creedmoor and they think it makes them a “sniper”🤦🏻😂

[@Oldhogleg]

Took the words right out of my mouth!

[@Electroal1y]

Absolutely agree, I bought a howa 6.5 Creedmoor. If howa made a 260 rem I would have bought that instead. The 3 other manufacturers that bring in 260's to South Africa cost triple what my howa cost, and they don't shoot 3 times better than my al cheapo howa, so I had no choice but to follow the trend. I will rebarrel it to a 6gt or something similar once the barrel is fried, but in South Africa its cheaper and easier to just buy another rifle

[@ryane6719]

You’re not wrong, so many range rats with a 6.5 that think they’re up next for a mission in Afghanistan

[@Electroal1y]

@@ryane6719 look to be honest. My howa in 6.5 creed is boringly accurate, at 100m when I did a ladder test last week I shot 2 strings of 10 loads into 1 ragged hole. The guys almost shat themselves when I fetched the target. Reason was my barrel is now broken in, and all my cases have now been once fired. Next test is a quick ocw, found 2 nodes, so want to see which is best, one 41.5 to 41.6 and the other a bit hotter, can't remember the load. Shooting my 1st big match in March which happens to be a National match. Only have 1 club match before that. I work in retail so off time is none existing

[@brianshaffer5090]

I don't disagree with you in a lot of ways. You can't ignore the availability of rate of twist on the creedmoors. I don't see a Hudson in the NASCAR lineup in 2021.

[@johnstoddard4982]

Can you do a video on on progressive lands and get groves closer to the end of the barrel. Also left versive right hand twist when it comes to accurate groups...

[@Oldhogleg]

I'll take the 243 over the 6mm CM for the same reasons I'll take the 260 REM over the 6.5 CM; the CM case is based on the obscure proprietary TC30 case while the 243 & 260 are based on the ubiquitous 308/7.62 case. By and large all I have to do if brass becomes unavailable is just simply run 308 cases through the full body dies. If you can't get CM cases, you're up a creek!

[@airborneivan]

Not true. You can use 308 cases for 6.5 using full length resizing. You just have to have a little more patients with the process and remove the recapping pin when converting from 308 to 6.5. That and trimming your case to the appropriate length prior to sizing from .308 it 6.5. In terms of real world use, .260 Rem has virtually zero advantages over 6.5CM.

[@ChaskeJohnson]

Is the barrel life of a 260 longer than the 6.5 creedmoor?

[@airborneivan]

@@ChaskeJohnson not sure who the question was directed to but with .260 Rem & 6.5 Creedmoor they're relatively close in terms of velocities and pressures. On average, 6.5CM barrel life is anywhere from 1800-3000 rounds depending on volume of fire and how hot you're loading. I'd imagine .260 to be about the same. One unknown is 6.5 barrels like Daniel Defense which are cold hammer forged barrels and nitrided. I'd imagine they would last a bit longer.

[@Oldhogleg]

@@airborneivan You got that backwards, it's the CM that has virtually zero advantages over the 260. If you have a sloppy chamber, you probably could substitute the 308 case; but the process isn't as simple as you suggested. It takes multiple dies to push the shoulder back that far ( do you have those dies on hand? I suspect not), and you'll have to anneal the brass in between reforming steps (do you have an annealing machine? I suspect not), then you'll have to use a case turning machine to not only cut down the overall length, but will have to turn down the now excessively thick neck wall thickness (do you have a case turning machine? I suspect not). I've already done that rodeo myself for a custom cartridge design of my own. Believe me, converting a 308 case to 260, then to 243 is drastically a simpler operation by a mile. I've already have made 260 not only out of 308, but also out of 243 brass. Have you made CM out of anything? I suspect not.

[@Oldhogleg]

@@ChaskeJohnson I suspect it's the same.

[@waynemayle865]

It would be to hard for me to decide whether a 243 6 creed or my 6mm remington I hunt with all 3. Now if u really want a storm to erupt on ur channel 22-250 vs 220 swift which I own both this has got to be my favorite video u put out yet

[@coyotiess]

HOW LONG IS THE BARRELS?

[@davsmth41]

This video came at a great time for me, I think lol. I have a new action, and a Krieger M24 taper, 1:7 twist barrel. Deciding to go 6CM or 243 has kept me up at night lol. Still haven't decided, but I really want to do 243. I am just skeptical because I bought such a fast twist, and I am not sure if I can still throw the full range of bullets for 243, light to heavy. Hunting, and personal long range plinking Ground Hogs, No competition for me. I am an avid re loader and enjoy getting all my rifles to shoot small groups. What say you? I really would like to know your opinion.

[@wesleyturner1979]

Go creed, xc, or even gt. The 243 will have too much bullet down in the case to load at mag length. You may not even be able to seat to the lans with VLD’s while keeping the bullets inside of a standard 308/243 mag.

[@BB-xp4pz]

I have two .243 winchesters. A model 700 and a model 70. Both are very fresh but older pieces. Neither have over 100 rounds shot through them. Yes I reload. I do reload and just started to load Barnes 85 grain ttsx. I am getting just north of 3200 and sub moa groups from both rifles. Still on the fence about the non lead bullets in these guns. I have others. These sit more than they are shot. For hunting I have various .308 calls up to 300 win mag. For hunting it’s the savage 110 ultralites with one in .308 win and one in 6.5 PRC. I shoot the 127 grain LRX in the 6,5 sun .5 moa and 175 grain eldx in the .308 at .75 moa and better. What do you think of the Barnes bullets, copper fouling, copper bore cleaners etc on barrel life? The advantage of the 6mm sounds great but since I have the two .243’s, if I shoot the barrels out I will just rebarrel for faster twist rates. Is that all that’s needed to shoot the heavier bullets in .243?

[@michaeltatalias7926]

I’d love to see more on a comparison between 6mm, and 25 Creedmoor, Also, other .25 modern bullet designs (in addition to the Blackjack 131gr)

[@conservativesniperhunter7439]

I recently sold my first centerfire rifle a Tikka M55 Standard ( no plastic on that beauty) walnut stocked 243 Winchester that I bought in 1989 here in Sydney Australia. I don’t know if this rifle was imported into the United States at the time . It was the slickest cycling bolt action I’ve ever used , like butter on glass . With Winchester Super X 100 grain soft points it shot 3 inch groups @ 100 Yards , but when I used the new at the time Winchester Supreme 100 grain loads it shot 1 inch 5 shot groups @ 100 Yards and 1/2 Moa ( 1 inch size group ) at 200 Yards . I do regret selling it . I fired around 600 rounds through it . I was always careful to let the barrel cool right down for 10 minutes before firing the next group . If you let your 243 Winchester barrel cool down before shooting another group you should be able to get around 2500 to 3000 rounds out of the barrel before your groups start to open up a bit .

[@CoyoteRegulator]

Can you please tell me the contour of the barrels on these rifles? Thanks!

[@ZeroBoostBuick]

I have a 243win PRS 8" twist rifle, and the most accurate bullets were the Berger 80 gr FB varmint I tried for fun. BUT I can't shoot them above freezing temps because 20 to 25 % of them blow up between 100 and 150 meters ! 107 SMK end up being the best in my current barrel. On this barrel I started with 105 Hybrids and I could not get sub 1/2 moa groups at 300 meters. So I switched to 107 SMK and had no problems getting sub 1/2 moa at 300m with the same exact load as the 105 hybs... 43 gr H-4831sc... which by no coincidence was the same load I used with one of my 243win hunting rifles with factory 1 in 9.25" twist (Savage 11) with 105 A-max bullets.

[@eldorisgardner]

So what happens if they simply change the twist rate in the .243 to the same as the 6CM? Personally I'm sticking with the .243 because I'm a hunter and out to 300 yards on deer sized game and under, they won't know the diff, and I've got the loads worked up for my .243 and feel comfortable. So I went with the 6.5CM. Increased bullet mass over the .243, slightly longer barrel life, and similar recoil.

[@Eightpoundtest]

It's interesting to note how each generation reinvents the wheel, or so they think and proceed to profess the ultimate cartridge is the new kerplunket 293.56, but now in my 8th decade, my first .243 came into my possession in 58 and I never looked back. I thoroughly enjoy seeing the new ground busting earth shattering kerplunkers working to improve the wheel. We shooters are living proof history repeats itself but those old standbys just chug along, 45/70, 30/06, .223 and thankfully the .243. Anyone seen a 6mm 284 lately? Enjoyed your presentation and I guess the end result will pretty much be the same, hot lead, target dead and it never knew what hit it.

[@superdave103harley]

I would love to see you guys do 300 Winchester magnum versus 300 WSM

[@brentcarter8006]

What happened to the Hornady 338 Express cartridge? Why was it discontinued?

[@darrinmartin1042]

I just purchased a tikka t3x in 243 win and it has a 1:8 twist. I've been playing with the 103 eld and 95 gr tsx with outstanding results. It is extremely accurate.

[@blakecole8662]

Would definitely love to see 243 win vs 243 Ackley vs 6mm creed or 22-250 Ackley vs 22 creed. I recently just had a 22-250 Ackley with a 1:9 shilen built and was contemplating either it or 22 creed and I’m also getting ready to have a 243 Ackley built with 1:8 BSF carbon fiber barrel. I love hunting but would also like to do some long range target shooting for fun and I reload all of my own ammunition.

[@03TorchRedMach1]

Great video. Lots of info. Learned a lot! Thank you!

[@richardstone5241]

WHICH IS BETTER? Being a shooter for over 60 years (military, contractor, law enforcement, competition and hunting) I get really frustrated when people say, which is better? What should be asked is, HOW DO THEY COMPARE? There is no which is better because then you must ask better for what? By the way, all of the numerous calibers and more being created all the time is for one reason, to get more guys to buy more guns constantly looking for WHICH IS BETTER............ROFLMAO!

[@klepley8409]

Very good comparison between the .243 and the 6mm CM. I just bought a new Tikka in .243 for my grandson. It is strictly a hunting rifle with ammo everywhere although I reload everything I shoot and will be reloading for him too. The .243 is the first hunting rifle caliber I bought in the late 1970's in a Ruger M77. Shoots a 1/2" to 3/4" group all day long w/ hand loads. WE live in Pennsylvania and seldom get shots beyond 2-300 yards. A majority of the time the shots are under 100 yards. With this in mind I will stick to the .243. Perhaps in your next video you might mention adapting the rifle to the terrain where it will be used. To my point.....thanks guys for good info. Happy shooting, Ken

[@geeccc5674]

I like how the 6 creed is set on a pedestal above the 243… subtle messaging 😂

[@lyndeen]

I have a 243 with 1-7.7 twist, 22” barrel. Shoot the 105 gr SMK just over 2900 fps. Shoots well in the 3/4 moa in the AR10 platform.

[@br4713]

For me there's no big différence except that the 6 Creedmoor is made specificly for heavy long bullets. To use a 243 for long range you need a custom chambering (longer freebore) and a specific barrel twist rate. So with factory rifles and ammo, the 243 is more for hunting and the 6 creedmoor better for long range shooting.

[@tbjtbj4786]

I remember a 105 gr load for the 243 back in the 80's I think it was a federal loading

[@r.a.facklam4851]

@@tbjtbj4786 I believe it was Winchester

[@tbjtbj4786]

@@r.a.facklam4851 very well could have been. I have always used the 6mm remington vs the 243. And used the 80gr bullets for it. On our small deer if you put it in the right place kills like lightning. And would not damage to much meat on a fall turkey. Deer/ fall turkey ran at the same time.

[@r.a.facklam4851]

@@tbjtbj4786 I have a 742 woodsmaster cambered in .243 that I bought 54 years ago and has killed hundreds of deer. I have never felt underguned while using it. I have shot deer over 400 yards with it. For making long shots you want heavier soft point bullets. I bought a .25/06 and hunted with it for a couple years then gave it to my grandson and went back to my 243. It's never failed to do what I wanted it to.

[@callumhepworth-smith6376]

Twist rate in the UK is becoming a big issue for factory .243 rifles, due to soon having to use copper (non-lead) ammunition. Currently 1:10 twist wont shoot anything above 85gr in .243 (non-lead) with a 1:10 twist, which is why i had mine re-barrelled to a 24" 1:8 twist to allow me to shoot up to 105gr non-lead bullets to be legal (for deer) in the UK.

[@Christoph1888]

Question: does muzzle velocity in a given caliber with a given load affect barrel life differently? So if I was reloading 243 with 80 vs 100 would the 80's reduce barrel life more?

[@ryanburnham1932]

Powder load for a particular caliber is what will affect barrel life most. The powder is very corrosive to the barrel and 'eats' it away making it less accurate over time, especially near the chamber where the un-burnt powder clings the most. Going from 45 grains of powder to 40 grains will exponentially increase barrel life over reducing bullet weight, but typically heavier bullets require near the higher end of powder charges for an expected performance.

[@Gunrunner223]

Powder volume to bullet caliber. Alot of powder, and a small dia bullet burns the throat out. There will actually be microscope cracks where the steel is being worn away. 308 is easy on a barrel. Larger bullet for the powder charge. 220 swift is one of the worst barrel burners. Alot of powder, small dia bullet.

[@DakotaDoc]

I don't have either and am in the market for PRS and also hunting (lighter) purpose built rifle. This was a great video. I don't handload (currently) I used to when I was younger. But military service tends to cut into any and all of your free time to work up loads. As I sold all my reloading gear, I have to start from scratch there. Commonality of cartridges may be a plus, or it may not matter as availability may be a plus for the hunting rifle. Some things to ponder.

[@lylewalters909]

U need to look at the Remington 244/ 1950, which is now the Remington 6mm.. im the second owner of a custom built 244. I haven't had the chance to load up some 103,105 or the 110 grain to see how it runs out. If yall were close to Tennessee I would loan it to you to see what's up, I shoot 95gr SST out of it now and it shoots good so I'm wondering if the 103 would tighten it up?

[@robertmettler1910]

i personally have a used savage model 11 (pre accu trigger ) that eats anything from 75gr hp sierras to 100gr spire points and puts all in under a inch at 100 which is fine for me

[@repairfreak]

Hello Gavin, I have been told its the overall bullet length that determines idea rifle twist an NOT bullet weight. What are your thoughts?

[@Mike-xi4zt]

Longer bullets weigh more.

[@RandallKautz]

Since you are comparing 2 custom rifles I would be interested in seeing the comparison with barrels having the same twist.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

If 300 Win mag & 300 PRC is a possible comparison I would be interested in that.

[@lagoonrd4173]

I first reloaded 30.06 when I was 16…. I reloaded for 243 later and lucked out on the formula that shot super groups out of a old Parker and hale 2400 rifle, that rifle still puts out some good shooting, thinking of getting a rem or bergara chambered for 243… hunting style

[@boomcountryhydro]

I have a 243 RPR and 13/1400 running 105bthp Hornady is achieved regularly

[@Eddiethekid269]

Hi I have a Savage arms Model 16 and I am quite sure it is a 1-8.5". As you asked are there any factory rifles in .243 with fast twist rates. Keep doing a great job you 2 your work has great value.

[@uMalice]

243 all day. 55 grain 243 with trail boss are awesome!

[@briansupermag3918]

Just got into the 6mm and chose 6 creedmoor and couldn't be happier. My rifle came with a 1x7 tw and wanting to shoot the heavier bullets. It's a no-brainer. Creedmoor is just more versatile from the factory ready for anything you want to do with a 6mm

[@texpatriot8462]

I have both. 243 in a deer rifle. 6mm Creedmoor in my Ruger Precision Rifle.

[@jordanelder8685]

In your opinions, with my Remington 700 VLS with a 1 in 9-1/8” twist, what would be the heaviest bullet I will be able to hand load for shooting long range steel? Also a bullet suggestion would be fantastic!

[@markpafford2221]

After looking at SAAMI drawing for both cartridge, the cartridge base to neck base length for.243 is 1.5598 and 6mm cr. length is 1.4864...but have same internal case diameter of .4714. Wouldnt this indicate the .243 has more powder capacity with the same bullet? I always enjoy your comparison videos. They are informative and sometimes thought provoking. My 1980 factory Ruger m77 varmint .243 has a faster twist rate than 1-10 and shoots 105 Amax and 108 bullets well. It would be good to have a comparison of these two cartridge performance with similar weight bullets

[@patrickschultz8820]

Use and versatility are where my thoughts dwell. I run 6.5cm and 308 win. so brass conversion would work for both if need be. I shoot to hunt and handload monolithics for game harvesting so the twist rate in a 6cm would be a better option for me. Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@PureCountryof91]

Bear creek currently has 1:8 .243 AR10 barrels.

[@childoftruth1738]

I have a chrome 20in spiral in 243. Bear Creek can make a beautiful rifle. Getting a 308 upper don't think a chrome barrel and probably 18in barrel as a keep away sign.

[@childoftruth1738]

And yes it has a 1:8 twist

[@VitoBb1978]

This video was great, very informative. My Remington model 770 has a 1-9 twist, it really loves the 100 Gr bullets, factory or may hand loads. The 243 being a over bore that it is, hand loaders who run the 55 Gr weight bullets with slower burning powder’s are going to burn out their barrels fast. My next 243 Win will be a 26 inch Remington 700, so I will be able to get more velocity. To my knowledge no factory rifles are made in 243 Win with 1-7 twist rate, which is needed for 100+ bullet weights .

[@seeratlasdtyria4584]

Dunno bout the .243, but my 700 6mmRem with 1/9 has no problems with the 105 gr. pills I often load. Agreed on anything bigger than MULE deer, tho I DO know of Elk having been taken with the 6Rem, just not me LOL.