Ultra Instinct Art Correction - Roundtable Discussion

Join Tyson, Olympia, and I in discussing the two different versions of the Ultra Instinct pan!
Oly - / oly_db
dboly.bigcartel.com
Tyson - / zeehallums
/ zeehallums
Twitter - / animeajay
Facebook - / animeajay
Music by PokéMixr92 - / slhtubit92
Kanzenshuu Thread - www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewt...

[@AnimeAjay]

Let's vote: www.strawpoll.me/15172951

[@coredrill3410]

I feel like while Nii definitely overexaggerated the details in the shading and the nonsensical elbow and deltoids in terms of anatomy, I think that for a shot like this which is supposed to be, and still will be, one of the most iconic shots in the franchise, that we should be getting this over the top, over exaggerated drawing instead of something that's closer to the character sheets. For that reason, I like Nii's better. Yamamuro's anatomy is much better, but unfortunately that's about it. It otherwise looks very flat and bland with the shading, and it feels like Yamamuro is trying to force back his art style over this new (technically old) style that artists like Takahashi, Nii, and Karasawa have been doing. Not to say Yamamuro's is bad by any means because it's still good, it's just a lot flatter in typical DB Super fashion.

[@rodolfofloresgrimaldo4769]

Core Drill I think we are being to rough with him (Yamamuro) but if that's the cause then HELL NO, YAMAMURO STOP RUING DRAGON BALL. It's just a theory tho.

[@coredrill3410]

I don't think we're being that rough with him. Most people seem to agree that they're both good, but clearly the majority feels Nii is better.

[@sonicthehedgehog1060]

AnimeAjay if you have time. Create more of these discussion art videos in the future. Very entertaining, and informative for a lot of people, including myself.

[@ultrainstinct3270]

AnimeAjay I love your videos and im wanted to ask will you ever do a video about Dragon Ball Super Animation Supervisors- Ep. 4- Yuya Takahashi or a history about how he got into animation.

[@TotallyNotMark]

Enjoying these discussion style videos.

[@itzfusionplex4266]

i love u

[@expresserpin7730]

You are my wifu.

[@MilliesTVTime2]

Totally Not Mark they’re the best

[@DJTIM31]

I like Nii’s shading more, but I like Yamamuro fists more.

[@mrblazeapound7856]

I prefer the original version by Hirotaka Nii.

[@samarpreet605]

Jerry The Meme Mouse hirotaka nii made it more Godful

[@KaiokenLuffy]

Most people do because the shading just makes it badass

[@haidermortadha8412]

no one gives a damn about realism, I don't get what's with all the BS going on here. Exaggeration was always a part of db and it often made things look better and more effective than they would've with a realistic look

[@dantecurry207]

Haider Alaa You should start your points with a bit more respect toward the other opinion. You may not agree with it but there is nothing wrong with that opinion. Personally I prefer Nii’s because it has better shading and looks cooler but I respect the other.

[@haidermortadha8412]

I respect opinions but objectively speaking, people don't pay much attention to more anatomically correct poses as long as the other pose isn't too unrealistic. Besides, yamamuro did more than make the pose more anatomically correct, he also changed other details unnecessarily (like goku's gi pants) and these are undeniably unfavorable changes

[@TotallyNotMark]

The aura obstructs the clear view of the silhouette making it difficult to see who has the stronger construction.. I think Yamamuro's is definitely stronger.

[@ajaythetek5345]

Totally Not Mark The CG (if it is CG) aura makes the characters body/muscle definition hard to see and especially with the most recent Vegeta transformation, I found myself frustrated that the aura was way tooo obstructive of the actual new character design Vegeta/UI Goku himself. Just made it difficult to get a clear view (. & CLEAR Appreciation) of the finale transformation(s)

[@brunolopes2205]

Nii's is much better. The shading is just

[@egzonahmeti1420]

Yeah nii is 100× bater

[@owenr-m4619]

I think they should have included the Nii's shading. It would make it much more appealing to look at

[@dennist.8210]

I agree Mark, one of the core aspects of this that one has to note is the fact that this is Ultra Instinct. Goku is supposed to be more relaxed, more slim but sharp at the same time. The reason Nii is corrected in the first place is because his construction isn't meant for this form, it's more suited for a SSJ build. I love Nii's style but overall for this specific form, Yamamuro's is more correct.

[@LawofCinema]

The hybrid looks amazing, I wish that's how it looked

[@NoahMonroe_]

The fact that this was so big a "controversy" that you could make an almost 15 minute discussion out of it.

[@NoahMonroe_]

Predawn Precipitation Fragment?

[@NoahMonroe_]

Predawn Precipitation Oh, okay. What I meant was that I couldn't believe that this correction created such a buzz that Ajay actually made a video conversation to compare the two (I'm not trying to criticise Ajay or anyone else in particular, here, I just find it kind of unbelievable that one simple correction created such a, again, "controversy").

[@zbrown02]

Predawn Precipitation i knew exactly what he was saying with this comment so if it was a sentence fragment it was a comprehendable one.

[@NoahMonroe_]

zbrown02 Thanks.😄

[@shubhamvyas6118]

So much of high grammar my head is going to burst -_-

[@LawofCinema]

Ajay discussing the real current issues

[@speedfreakDaniel]

I didn't even know about the art correction, no other db channel covered it from what I know. You have a like and a comment from me mate

[@ImAlexGoodwin]

These discussions are really great, and it's always fun to get other perspectives. I wouldn't mind seeing these more often because they give such interesting discussions!:D

[@MrFatLipx]

I still like Nii's version better, but that Yamamuro version isn't NEARLY as bad as I initially thought when I first saw it. Maybe it was just the shitty quality of the video I was watching, but it looked FAR worse in my head than it does now in that picture. I think it looks pretty solid overall, despite how "bland" it kinda is.

[@mo-ab7315]

Ryan eh

[@weare4686]

Ryan hirotaka's looks way to stiff for me

[@asher7973]

Yamamuro's design with Hirotaka's shading

[@christophersmith3254]

If they wanna correct something, how about the first 27 episodea

[@RDAM121gamer]

Love this roundtable discussion. Please Do More! Your Pals were great!

[@babyjiren9676]

I want Nii's shading and pants with Yamamuro's upper body anatomy and fists.

[@markotuna]

Nii all the way. The only thing I like more in Yamamuros art is the lighting, but Niis just looks soo damn good! Also Yamamuros fists are better

[@g3neralcross911]

marko tuna what about the fist’s ?

[@redgloves9159]

@@g3neralcross911 Yamamura's fists are more define

[@TheBlond49]

Migatte no gokui

[@tanayyy2875]

Holyyyy shiiiiiittttt

[@KonaSquid]

Maybe they did it to keep Vegeta's form more unique with the bigger muscles.

[@festuspowerlol]

I love the intimidating feel of Hirotaka Nii's far much more to be honest. This perfected UI form is something unknown to us, so making it look absolutely beastly I think is much better for the hype factor.

[@Rexthegreat64101]

Good to see my boy zee!

[@MichaelRGB]

I personally like Yamamuro's because this isn't a strict SSJ form where Goku would normally bulk up. Goku shouldn't bulk up that much like a normal SSJ form.

[@moscosama1238]

Agreed 100%

[@Kingdom18Key]

SSJ3 is incredibly bulky

[@haidermortadha8412]

yamamuro's goku is barely any smaller, the muscles simply appear far less defined and imposing, and that's nothing to commend....

[@FCBrock101]

9:42 I wish they just did that, instead of changing everything what a waste of time I swear. Just funny that they take the time to correct a good looking scene, yet they dont bother do something about garbage looking art from previous episodes. Looks like we life in a opposite world.

[@haidermortadha8412]

exactly, they need to get their shit straight, especially yamamuro. Some of the corrections are completely unnecessary and downright ludicrous when considering their tight schedule. They need to know how to manage their time properly

[@FCBrock101]

Haider Alaa I 100% agree

[@lokazoum4816]

Its because they are obligated to make a perfect on model drawing everytime there is a new transformation,im sure that Yamamuro didnt really want to correct it.

[@thekiwiclipper1113]

You're the number 1 dragon ball KZbinr.

[@MrFatLipx]

Ajay do you think there's a chance Yamamuro ends up correcting that face shot of Nii's at the end of the preview? Or is this reveal pan shot just a one-off and Nii will still be able to shine through during that scene? I'd be so sad if Nii gets corrected to oblivion by Yammy.

[@spirit1219]

Now youre one of my fav Dragon Ball youtuber Just wondering after Db Super is done....will you start doing staff of some other anime??

[@IIIIKaiserIIII]

Super Vegito I'd watch if he did some Hunter X Hunter 2011 series.

[@mohammedrahman2115]

Super Vegito Pretty sure he said he’s gonna cover the first 65-ish episodes of super he missed, after that, it’s Z

[@SheltonPiresPires165]

Super Vegito i'm actually interested on his thoughts on an intro from a kids show called Ok KO let's be heroes. Seriously i felt like there was something familiar there, as if it was animated by a japanese Studio or something like that.

[@localweebslayer875]

Nova Sayan I’d rather he wouldn’t. He needs to expand his channel to other anime’s other than dragon ball.

[@puffnstuff7905]

Even though Yamamuro's fits with the character model of Goku and the positon of the chest, fists, and perspective is much better in Yamamuro's. Nii's drawing of Goku's new form is soo intense I love it. The added bulk and dark shading make the form look extremely intimidating. If Yamamuro just corrected the perceptive, fists, etc and keep the original drawing of Nii's, I would be so happy.

[@twTheivid]

Such a cool discussion. I'm absolutely torn as to which drawing I prefer, Nii's creates much more of an impact while I'd say Yamamuro's is much more safe. Really, really tough, but I do feel like Nii's fits the atmosphere much better

[@harmwijngaard5696]

First of all: I love your videos. I'm an animator myself and I learned a lot from your videos, especially the importance of a good storyboard. In an older video you asked for suggestions on which video you should make next... I would love to see videos of you about battles from Dragon Ball / Dragon Ball Z (or even Dragon Ball GT) that you really like, and why you like them so much. Just a suggestion, keep up the great work!

[@Fuzzycuffsqt]

Nice job pulling this one out. It feels like your channel has a lot of places that it can go, and the content is very promising. I hope that with Super coming to an end, you won't run out of topics to focus on. Videos like this make me a lot less concerned about it though. You got this

[@AaronAlert77]

So which one did they go with

[@infoyassine4401]

animation ep 130 yuya takahashi and shida please ????

[@dragonballsbest4241]

Bouanani Choaib its highly likely

[@archdh4767]

Bouanani Choaib Its probably Takahashi and maybe Manabe. Shida usually only key animates or storyboards.

[@rayz639]

Tate to

[@andresolorzano9440]

PLEASE, EPISODE 130 TAKAHASHI,TATE,MANABE,CE YONG TU,NIKAIDO,KENJI MIUMA,SHIDA

[@lobosaurioclark7348]

And Tate pls >:'v

[@erick-pj4yv]

Great video

[@tacfgh]

Hirotaka nii's Migatte no gakui is badass!

[@StepBaum]

Great Interesting video as usual :)

[@gideonjones8088]

I like Nii's version better personally because it feels more like the classic dbz style. the hands in the correction are the only real improvement I see, and that far arm is rather awkward. that being said, while I don't think the correction was really necessary, I can still tell that I'm going to love the scene it shows up in, regardless of which version is put up.

[@yazanhamdan84]

now I won´t be able to unsee this in the upcoming episode :/

[@phcookie.t]

Any more comparisons between uncorrected and corrected art? I would love to see more!! Are there any sites I can find more of these comparisons?

[@justasinglesummon3912]

Actually need to sleep but can't sleep on your vids man

[@JamisonEdits]

I liked nii’s a lot more, had better shading and the belt on Goku looked a lot nicer too, not to mention he made Goku look swole asf!

[@gabrielt.harris8885]

What do you think of the C.G.I. in shows like Star Wars: The Clone Wars (TV series) and-or Star Wars Rebels?

[@MII2o90]

Please make an animation breakdown of Battle of Gods. Tt has some of the best animation sequences I've seen in Dragon Ball. I would love to know what are the details behind the making of it since I watched it already more than dozen times :D

[@ImAlexGoodwin]

Part of the problem with BoG is the post-team put so much motion blur all over the action sequences that it's *incredibly* difficult to see who does what - without even considering the supervisor corrections on top of the blur. For example, compare Shida's sequence in episode 57 to his contribution in BoG, and it's mind blowing how much blur there is.

[@rayzermaniac5218]

The biggest question I always have if you are looking for a video idea is how do you know when you are looking at corrections? And how do you know who did them? I know it's very obvious in this example but in other videos it isn't.

[@larrythepagan]

1st one shading better. 2nd one shape is better. COMBINE THEM!

[@infinitedeathloop5517]

FUSIIOOOONNNN HAAAAA!!!!

[@BoomKerPlow]

nii's reminds me of something takahashi would do

[@flotillacairn8904]

He's inspired from him so yeah your right

[@JuniorRDZ04]

Great discussion; I also like Nii’s since it favors my art style of exaggerated muscles.

[@ihateeveryone8161]

I think Hirotaka Nii's is the better one, imo, but they both look amazing

[@Marco_1505]

I prefer Nii's version, much more impactful

[@demondogslayer]

Nii’s feels like it has a more 90’s manly DBZ vibe and yamamuro’s feels more like the DB super style more slender and sleek. I prefer nii’s because it just feels more dramatic

[@JustAFox47]

Hey, Ajay, I was wondering: after Super ends, will you go back and breakdown the animation of older episodes (from the original DB, to Z, and then GT)?

[@ImAlexGoodwin]

He's said he wants to do the episodes he missed between 6 and 64, as well as correct some of his older videos.

[@kevincmejia]

he has been breaking them on twitter, he is approaching frieza saga

[@adamalarcon4973]

A scene likes this just NEEDS flare. Nii's version of this scene just seems more striking and memorable unlike Yamamuro's which looked flat as mentioned in the video. I pray that just this one correction be reverted in time for the episode, although I realize this to be highly unlikely.

[@thomasLG2]

Quite a nice video Ajay, some good points were raised. To me nii still feels better even if yam has its advantages, the way he drew it has a much higher impact on my brain than yam's drawing.

[@soreth4672]

Yamamuro just turned ice cream into frozen yogurt!

[@skyline_yt4069]

I have to say your hybrid edit is the best one out of the other 2 it combines the best of the 2. For example your edit has Yamauro's shoulders, fists, the better fore arm half, while keeping the toned muscles of Nii's and the more detailed gi. Honestly your design should be the final one. Not counting your edit I have to go with Yamauro's it just looks better anatomically correct for me.

[@dickdrip]

What about gokus cat like eyes?

[@Corey1695]

Nii's original version blows Yamamuro's away. Not even debatable imo.

[@DA-wr9uy]

I would if liked if youd takes about the flaring gi

[@Ryan_Perrin]

fix Nii's elbow, and there is nothing wrong with it. I love the giant muscles, makes me think of Goku v. Vegeta in Saiyan Saga. The shading is pretty intense, but placement is mostly good. Yamamuro's has good right arm shading, but other than that it's okay in comparison. also the hair in Nii's is better imo. the angle is good in Yamamuro's, I like that you can see more of him. so, Yamamuro's angle and right arm. everything else Nii hahaha

[@samarpreet605]

this might not be complete yet

[@Vazel]

The one that nii made is the best in any aspect in my opinion

[@xxgameoverxx7676]

What if these are shots from Two different angles?

[@MrFatLipx]

...But they're not. You can see it with your own eyes that it's clearly the same shot from the same exact angle.

[@le_sceptique_]

Like you said, Nii gets a bulkier shape which is a classic way to draw characters in Dragon Ball during dramatic scenes, I can't stop myself to think about the first appearance of the Super Saiyan, it's definitely something I miss in Yamamuro's current designs with less muscled bodies. I agree with the shades being more interesting too, Nii draw it in a more complex but more interesting way that is matching perfectly with the shapes he draw so it's all good to me. The result of Yamamuro's one with less muscles and shades is a more blank Goku which is quite a shame for this kind of big reveal scene. So yes, as you guys my vote goes for Nii's UI Goku. I enjoyed this little "debate" video and hope see more like this in the future!

[@gokualterado]

NICE

[@alexlubbers1589]

Nii's build and design is far superior to yamamuro, but in aura its a bit different. note: yes i do know that the aura is mainly CG effect (thus far, there could be an outer aura like in the video game thing) Nii's aura is basically an intensified ultra instinct omen aura, with pulsing white patches. there is no aura in front of goku. the aura also has a more "ripple-y" effect, like the UI aura seen in the 1 hour special. it looks like slow moving ripples of bluish white, versus the misty aura goku had against Kefla. Yamamuro's aura incorporates the more misty/smoky aura with a bit of the ripple effect, and fewer of the white pulses. the most striking and cool looking difference is the reddish/pink flame like aura that races up in front of Goku, and with the flames of pink are large yellow streaks, similar to the white streaks in regular UI or SSG. The pink flames also may signify that the epic looking red flame like aura from the "first look" trailer may actually occur, much to my anticipation. Based purely on auras alone, Yamamuro takes the spot.

[@animeawake6576]

are you from india????????

[@TimeStopper20XX]

I like the way Nii shows the shirt ripping. Yamamuro's looks slightly more boring but more correct on the physique.

[@KaloyanKasabov]

Hirotaka Nii will become the new Yuya Takahashi

[@zakariyaabdi1697]

Yeah ur right ! Hirotaka nii shading overall is better but Yamamuro shape makes it look like toriyamas design.

[@havok2009]

Damn, the first one was so much better. The "correction" is simplified

[@dylansedits8047]

Super Saiyan grade 2 was dope as shit even though it wasn't anatomically correct. At least Nii's version doesn't have a broken arm.

[@mossheadhunter1820]

Yo could we have Aaron (@Ju_Bai_Da) on here next time for a roundtable discussion?

[@Amplifymagic]

Nii made him too buff even though it looks good, Toriyama wanted Goku to be more lean in his original concept art.

[@archdh4767]

Alexander Aramaki Yamamuros drawing is actually making goku look larger IMO, Nii makes goku's muscles much more toned tho.

[@rayz639]

I like muscular goku better. Namek saga flash backs boi.

[@egzonahmeti1420]

Oh yeah namek saga super buuf goku good.memoris

[@danielz-v4083]

Kaioken Goku vs Vegeta flashbacks boi*

[@MasterWhimp]

muscle goku is best goku.

[@djrico11]

Guys. I know that you agree with this. Gokus body (from Nii) reminds ms more of Takahashis drawings. And you all know that Goku has intens big muscles when he fights a long battle. Example: he had big muscles when he intensly fought Frieza on Namek. And the fights between Frieza and Goku and Jiren and Goku are nearly the same. They fighted a long time intensly (episodes) and the muscles of Goku were so big and intens. And the drawings of Nii fits better in these arc because the fight is intense ans long. That's why the drawings of Nii fits better because that's just the body of Goku.

[@kiredzadi8192]

I love Nii’s, but it looks to me like the chest caves in especially at the pecs. I think Yamamuro’s is a better representation of Ultra Instinct, because Nii’s fierce approach I feel is more fitting for a super Saiyan transformation. Yamamuro’s shapes with Nii’s shading would be a great middle ground for me, as well as Nii’s pants and blown off gi.

[@demonicwarrior1]

I agree that the buff and over exaggerated anatomy would make the scene a bit more memorable and stand out. Everyone remembers buff Goku super Saiyan Goku on Namek even though after that they toned it down. I think Nii really captured this better than Yamamuro.

[@PsRs127]

Why did they change?? Niis was perfect!!

[@radicalraccoon]

I think something of a sort of in-between of both of these designs would be best. I think they both look fine. For example, I think the shading is a bit much in Hirotaka Nii's, but a bit understated in Tadayoshi Yamamuro's. As for anatomical accuracy, in animation I don't really care that much. Animation has a lot of tricks that break away from realism, but that's fine; it makes things more fluid and dramatic. However, taking an in depth look at a key frame like this does cause it to stand out to me and I would prefer that elbow being corrected.

[@MuhammadYousaf-ie6xk]

Oly_Db He sounds somewhat sounds like near....from death note

[@kingplays5364]

brov... this is a cartoon, nii has hit the nail on the head, why the heck are people complaining that his drawing is too cartoony, its not exaggerated just like the cartoon is and that's exactly what made this cartoon serious. not flippin playboy six packs.

[@yoojohn6191]

Hi

[@Dripx-]

Mmm boy look at those muscles

[@dbzenthusiast8152]

All in all, nii’s anatomy and shading is more stylised and exaggerated, reminding fans more like z, whilst the silhouette of yamamuro’s is more clear.

[@Pioxys]

To me, Nii's versions looks more sharper, more fluent, and more shading detailed. Meanwhile the only thing I can give Yamamuro's version is that the body tone is a neat mix of DBZ & DBS ideal of a muscular body. Part of it goes back to what I said about the shading. Nii's version gives a blend of light and darker tones, while Yamamuro gives too much light, it comes out as a bit flat. I do like Yamamuro's version of the aura though. Looks pretty wild as Nii looks nicely tamed. Overall I like Nii's better. The shading, and that DBZ style of buffness just wins me over.

[@Rationalific]

Both are very nice, but comparing the two, it seems obvious that Nii's is preferable. In other words, I would have accepted Yamamuro's if it was the only one, but I see no reason (and even "negative" reason) to have corrected Nii's work.

[@A--PhanangNghia]

I'm praying for Yuya Takahashi and Naotoshi Shida to do episode 130

[@theofiloshatzigiannis5308]

The shading in the first one is is better

[@swizyz]

Why can't they just combine both correcting everything with the shapes and sizes. I just really want the black to stand out a lot

[@obliviate248]

Yamamuro's does show a more "realistic" approach, but what I'm shocked about is that no one has mention that Goku is a Saiyan! His muscles, especially at his new pinnacle of power, should be heavily prominent such as in Nii's. That aside, Yamamuro is better at realism, but that should be given to human characters respectively, while Nii can stick to Goku, who has not been shirtless for a long time, which implies he is going all out, such as against Frieza back on Namek. If they were to work together, Nii could focus on a Saiyan's muscular features, while Yamamuro focuses on what makes Goku anatomically similar to humans other than muscles, such as the hands.

[@TicketsTheMovie]

Nii’s design: Goku Roids Yamamuro’s design: Goku Nati

[@debayan9607]

just wait for takahashi to show up

[@PalPlays]

Nii's right arm (Goku's left) still looks awkward.

[@ramirezproductions1601]

I like yamamuro better, it looks more 3d and overall less sloppy

[@majinrebornx2220]

It's simple yamamuro design with Nii's shading...

[@pockystyx4087]

the original one by nii looks really shiny, like a balloon. never been a fan of that over-exaggerated Broly-esque musculature, but I get why folks thought it looked more intimidating

[@Laekith]

It's not even worth discussing, Nii's version is just better. Yamamuro's could be anatomically better but at what cost?

[@itzfusionplex4266]

ikr

[@royalblue395]

Well nii's elbow look weird, and how she states that it was suppose to be in the back....tho in art Nii's version is better...which we had the hybrid lol

[@russianbot2179]

but you don't have time to see the accuracy of the elbow in the show. but you can immediately notice the muscles

[@Howl14]

if its a pan i like Nii's more but if i had a poster id get Yamamuros

[@AbirZenith]

Why cant we combine these two and make something in the middle? NI's shading + yamamuro's correction. Keep the top half from NI, give the hands (just the hands not the arm) from yamamuro, keep the shading, much like the hybrid but more corrected obviously

[@criixt]

Yamamuro looks like he drew goku coming down from creatine

[@brando3424]

Well, a major theme of Super anatomy wise was lean and toned so I agree with Yamamuro's correction!

[@xem2476]

nocturnalstarboy still removes the impact and ferocity of the scene

[@mugshotmarley]

Keep Nii's version but shrink the shoulders a bit. Or if keeping Yamamuro's version, add Nii's shading and gi

[@CaptainCJ97]

I like Nii's little more