Why Do You Suck At Fighting Games? A Philosophical Discussion!

[@WizardyDylan]

that point that every opponent is just as scared, sloppy, stupid etc as i am has automatically gotten me to plat in so many games, especially the more "difficult" the genre. literally a lifechanging perspective.

[@vodkagobalsky]

That's why Justin is so good (in any game). He can spot your patterns very quickly and adjust his own play against it very quickly. That's why in order to beat Justin, you have to beat him quickly or else he will adapt to you and you will lose. He's like the Borg.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

That explains why Daigo was able to top him, he kept subverting his expectations and managed to stay a step ahead of Justin to throw off his gameplan. I'll never forget their legendary Ryu vs. Balrog EVO battle!

[@MarviMofoVarietyShow]

My philosophy is: 1.Prioritize enjoyment from learning over winning 2. Have the mentality of a student to become a master (paradoxical) 3. Don’t care about your record like it’s some cod kd ratio. 4.learn from your mistakes

[@TheSoulCrisis]

The faster you learn the faster you win, I like that!

[@michaelnau3815]

Great talk and hard agree here. I'm just a new Diamond player (day 1 Marisa player) but I started at Silver, even though I've been loving fighting games for a long, long time, I've never really trained properly. For SF6, I thought I might do the work, as far as my schedule permitted, and I did apply some of the martial arts state of mind I learned. Not fearing going forward, training for small sequences, looking at other people's fight, looking at my fights through replay, trying to program the dummy and so on. Also, I'm only playing rank once I know I'm in the right state of mind and feel prepared... and I'm climbing, slowly, but climbing. I find it hard, I do rage some times (at myself mostly), but every little victory feels sooo satisfying, even more so when you manage to beat a kind of player who used to gate keep you.

[@jamaledwards8118]

To me the "why i suck at fighting games" tell the tale itself. The lack of love for it vs another one. If you're playing the game with only winning in mind you lose the capability to improve because the idea of winning makes you self entitle to only winning. Which is why we scream nerfs this nerf that and buff my character. This is a pure indication that you dont necessarily love the game but love winning. To fix this you have to play game you actually love. Then figure out if its just for fun. Follow by improvements and blah blah blah. If you do not care for something the lack of preparation will show and you will start asking "why do i suck at fighting games".

[@FranticFoxBass]

This was great, thank you for tackling this topic again to this extent. Not sure if you see this but I wanted to say that I really appreciate you for your grounded and realistic point of view. Fighting games are hard. I run into a lot of people online who play fighting games since they were very young just destroying me in ranked and then there are some pro players on twitter calling 1500 MR Master rankers "beginners". These amongst other things can be very demotivating while one's trying to learn something new. I never really played fighting games beyond the occasional couch co-op with friends and never understood the basics of the games, but I always wanted to get into it. I am a 43 now and I started to take learning fighting games more seriously just two years ago. I made my way up from Iron rank to (at the moment) Platinum 4 in SF6 with Juri and I am pretty proud of this. I don't care if I still suck, because I know, at some point, I won't anymore. I needed to build dexterity and muscle memory for executing combos without dropping, I had to learn what good spacing is, how punishes work, knowing the general mechanics and the rest of the roster including their mechanics and combo/block strings, I had to improve my reflexes by constantly training (because I'm old :D) but I enjoy the whole process of learning all of this and losing with purpose to get to this point, and I'm probably not even half way there. My win rate is 41% at the moment, so it is safe to say I suck, but I see where it is going and I see very clearly that I get better. There are worlds between my gameplay in June and now. Amongst all of this, losing and only blaming myself and nothing and nobody else was probably the most difficult part. Thinking you now really understood something and then get perfected by someone who might have a fraction of hours in the game and is also a lower rank can really hurt. What is also very important to realize, is that this process is the same for everybody. Mago for example is a virtuoso at fighting games because he trains for 7-8 hours per day on AVERAGE and has been doing this for 10 Years now. I manage approx. 2 hours on average since June. So Mago is somewhat 25.000 hours ahead of me while adding up 5 to 6 hours to his lead per day :D I think it's important to take this into consideration when picking up any hobby and manage the expectations of yourself. Love your content mate, your views and opinions gave me grounds to continue when I felt I should just stop multiple times now. All the best. :)

[@UltraChenTV]

Dude, getting to Platinum 4 is amazing. Great job! That's not easy, I don't care what anyone says. And trust me, when the Tweet got out there calling early Master Ranking "beginners", I almost had a shit fit on Twitter. LOL! Talk about gatekeeping. Goodness. Fighting Games take a lot of work. I have the First Attack series here which I am woefully behind on adding new episodes to. But if you look in my playlists, I have the beginnings of a good series of videos. But I always lose the continued drive to make them thanks largely to ADHD. But I'm planning on making more entries. And I will, I promise! ^_^ But check those out and see if they help at all. Otherwise, jump on over to my casual stream ( twitch.tv/jchensor ) any time I'm streaming and come ask for help. More than happy to stop whatever I'm doing to help players improve!

[@FranticFoxBass]

@@UltraChenTV Man, thanks for the reply and the kind words, it means a lot. And yes, that "beginners" tweet sure was something lol Don't be too hard on yourself with that ADHD stuff, I was diagnosed with this in 1992, I absolutely get the struggle. I made some bass guitar song cover videos on YT for a short while but dropped off 2 years ago, even though I loved doing those. I'll check out the First Attack Series and visit you on twitch. ^ ^ Stay awesome :D

[@Niosai]

Can't believe someone made a video attacking me specifically with the title Great video!

[@spagzs]

I thought this was the part macaffee podcast for a second.

[@WisdomisPower-10inminute-dn5no]

Your engagement with this subject is impressive. I've been covering similar topics on my channel and appreciate this level of discourse.

[@AlandelaTower]

I have played Fighting Games, trained Martial Arts and practiced Meditation during my entire life. And yes, both Martial Arts and Fighting Games require persistency, courage, training, study, tons of practice, tolerance to frustration, discipline, etc. But they both gives you tons of satisfaction, self-knowledge, improvement, and most important: 1) an opportunity to experience freedom of expression, through your fighting, and 2) the opportunity to experiment a momentary crystal-clear state of mind in full connection with your body (Bruce Lee taught about those 2 experiences.). It’s basically the same. Martial arts turn all those abilities into real life. You can BE THE fighter in real life and time. Sorry for the bad english 😅

[@DioDCynic]

You don't suck at FGs, it's just that the top percent of competitive players are so good that you have a warped perception of a game meant to be casual.

[@terry.1428]

Nah Im actually garbage.

[@killahteck402]

OD Dp solves all problems in a true Ken players mind

[@deice3]

It feels so bad, when you're getting your ass kicked by a strategy, and you know that strategy is not used at high level. So you know it has an easy consistent answer, but you feel stupid for not figuring it out. Silver lining is at least you know there is an answer and its not just broken.

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah, that's the main thing to understand. And it's not easy trying to find solutions on your own. It takes a LOT of know-how to really understand how to approach a problem in a Fighting Game. As I said, if a solution can be discerned on your own, there are so many resources out there, great teacher -- myself included -- willing to lend a hand! Come and ask us. ^_^

[@WraxTV]

I like how at the beginning you were like "Not everyone can be the best at everything" and I'm just sitting here thinking "But fighting games are the thing I'm the best at... I'm just still freaking terrible at them."

[@UltraChenTV]

LOL! I believe you can do it. I would love to help, if you ever catch one of my streams!

[@monsterofvoices]

I feel like there's a curve where the people who only play against their friends and family think they're great. Then when they start playing online and see Evo vids they realize they're trash. If they dig deep enough and start getting high ranked online or start placing at offline tournaments they'll start to feel strong again.

[@MrRyuken555]

Yeah online is a whole new world. Lol

[@vanillafella4893]

and then not be able to play with friends or family😔

[@hugejackedman3447]

There was once a time I was DESPISED at fighting games, mainly MK and KOF. It was so bad that one time I lost to some new dude in Tekken 5(I knew how to win at Tekken but I didn't actually *know how to play* Tekken) and one of my buddies threw a party celebrating the fact I got destroyed! 🤣 Nowadays things have changed so much that I just don't have the energy to learn all the latest and greatest tech.

[@vanillafella4893]

despise means "to hate"

[@hugejackedman3447]

@@vanillafella4893 Yes. I was hated by my friends at playing fighting games..

[@DevilishlyDutch]

I'm basically watching this preemptively, I started playing a few days ago so of course I suck 😂nice to know what it takes to improve ahead of time and whether it's worth investing in

[@Cursed_Fruit]

I'd be so good at fighting games if I didn't have blind knife tossing taking up so much of my time

[@UltraChenTV]

LOL! Blind knife tossing takes a LOT of practice, man. 😝

[@Slackjaw]

Talkin about backstabs in dark souls. Never thought id see the day. Sick

[@NotBer]

Thanks for the therapy session, James!

[@BrettGroh-e2z]

For a bunch of people who have no trouble beating the ever loving piss out of you in game, the FGC sure is a nice group of folks. This video made me feel a little better about sucking ass at SF6. I have this weird issue with playing online. I like it but it also gives me anxiety and so I can beat just about any character level 7/8 CPU but im still in bronze in ranked because I guess I just don’t have enough experience playing humans. But im feeling more motivated now so thanks James, you’re the man!!

[@OneCSeven]

playing the cpu and real people are literally two different games. you can only improve execution with cpus, but neutral and adaptation are not possible to practice that way. if you get anxious by ranked try battle hub or casual or installing the “hide ranks” mod. that one helped me a lot to break through the anxiety.

[@deeaizee9130]

Like 10% of players have a character in Diamond+. SF6 broke a million sales in, what, a single weekend? Everybody's bar for what's good and what sucks is actually broken. We recognize what it looks like it is to be consistent and do the optimal things and have the right answers and play the matchups well, so we start to view any period of time that we aren't doing those things as failure. Respect your effort, guys. Even if you're average, which a large number of players even able to find this video are probably above as James noted, average ain't bad at all. This is just a hard game in a hard genre with a lot of potential at its peak. Everyone's path is different, and if you're out there fighting at all, you're probably progressing on it just fine. World Tour beats us over the head with this. ~ a D3 Dee Jay that has asked this question too many times to count over decades of play. heh, We've all got things to work on.

[@Cursed_Fruit]

Well said man

[@deeaizee9130]

Came back to say that I hit Master! That was NOT on my bingo card!

[@AceBadguy]

James. What's your favorite food?

[@UltraChenTV]

Weirdly, just spaghetti. Haha. Childhood favorite.

[@ko-yoshi]

Lol

[@blvk3]

people suck at fighting games because they play the game like an action game, thinking all they have to do is to memorise the special moves and throw them out randomly not knowing fight game is actually a game of chess but more complex and in real time

[@TheSoulDragger]

Enlightened 😇

[@sgt.rudolf3811]

Very cool video, always quality!

[@ForestTekkenVideos]

Just want to comment on the topic of having balance patches be more often than once a year. I'm at the end of your "Beginner Friendly Stream: Japan World Warrior Finals" stream and in it you're talking about how you'd put Deejay above JP now that we've had more time. Case in point! That's exactly why I like yearly patches! Let it play out! Lets avoid the MK patch every few weeks nightmares and actually have good, well thought out patches that people can look back on with respect.

[@UltraChenTV]

Oh, agreed with you. But I also think in an environment where people are playing for money and even slight disparity in balance can lead to a Luke army at Capcom Cup, for the sake of variety and maybe obvious weaker characters (which is why I don’t want to nerf top tiers), every six months would at least keep players interested and excited with something that feels newish.

[@ForestTekkenVideos]

@@UltraChenTV cool 👍

[@scorpiusjones5436]

I have an overall method of playing this game that works for me. I'm not a serious tournament player, but still want to improve. So I will play some custom room games against great players, and also some battle hub where it's more random. This way, I can get wrecked and learn things, but also get Ws here and there which keep me engaged

[@hexydripper1117]

Good unbiased topic, thumbs up from me

[@ko-yoshi]

Teacher shout out for Tryhard JB (Jon). Hell answer like every Rashid question that pops up in chat! 🤠

[@nathanf1919]

Very pleasant to listen to James. Im a whole new scrub

[@dgw4049]

I thought i sucked until that ranked chart was released last month. Then i realized i am top 4% street fighter 6 player in the world with gief... the worst character in sf6. Im not a pro, but if i played baseball i would be in aaa, which is really really good

[@eliholland1365]

This topic requires a mental health clinician 😂

[@andyboy624]

I know the reason I suck when I see others profile with hundreds of hours in practice. I get bored so easily practicing long combos by myself

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah, it's certainly rough. But it doesn't have to be. Practicing Combos shouldn't just be practicing combos. If you don't find you're improving at the combo, or that it's getting boring doing it over and over again, you're probably not learning what you should be learning. Combos are about building muscle memory, but muscle memory doesn't get built by hardcore repetition. It's really about programming your brain in a certain way. Practicing pieces of the combo and understanding the combo, why it works, ways to make it easier, etc. I don't have to practice combos for very long at all because I'm making sure I'm *learning* the combo, not just performing the combo. If you ever have a chance to stop by my stream one of these days, I'd love to help you out with this! ^_^ ( twitch.tv/jchensor )

[@gc3k]

As the absolute state of the 21st century economy has taught me, just because you're dedicated and hard working, it doesn't mean you're actually progressing Some examples are spending too much money on needless equipment or even games, interacting with the wrong FG communities online or in person, not analyzing your mistakes (I'm no expert but those are the obvious examples where being smart is better than being dedicated)

[@raionbomber75]

I know why I suck, I can't do combos. I started my FGC journey with KoF14 and everyone one always told me " Damn your neutral game is so good, if only you had combos." And for the life of me, I just can't get a consistent flow with anything unless it's like, Melty, cause everything connects even if it's bad or Koihime Enbu cause they gimme a QTE when I get the counter hit lol . KoF combos? Only in training mode, never in a real match. Street Fighter combos? IMPOSSIBLE. I just can't get timing of when to press my next button, even with helpful things like SF6 Action bar and Frame Meter. It's depressing as heck.

[@UltraChenTV]

I can definitely help you with combos. But I’d have to know exactly what the issues are. If you ever get a chance to watch a stream of mine live, mention this comment and I’ll help you with combos!

[@marchaoz9649]

maybe you could try different controllers? I used to play on pad and can't do any combos until I tried keyboard and hitbox. Can be costly though.

[@raionbomber75]

@marchaoz9649 I haven't tried hitbox yet, but that's because I'm a terrible keyboard typer, lol. I've been through tons of pads, and I have a fight stick collecting dust on the floor 🤣

[@UltraChenTV]

Much of learning controllers and fighting game execution is building natural muscle memory that require the least effort. I am not a dexterous human being by any stretch, but because I studied execution and approach it systematically, I can do almost anything. There’s very little that’s actually “mystical” with execution. Breaking it down helps a LOT.

[@davidneirinckx593]

NATHAN!!

[@Metadaxe]

I've been watching these "why do you suck at fighting games how to get better" type of videos since before the tuesday show existed. This is the first time I can honestly say, actually I don't.

[@Metadaxe]

although if it took over a decade to get to this point, then maybe I actually do suck.

[@Grux_ASG]

I see a lot of people in master cry about being bad, when plat is average.

[@chimpmasterflex]

You know James if you're going to be mean in the title, I'm going to ask why you suck at tekken.. (I'm just kidding much love lol) Not really the kind of video I need, but I will say I peek at the sf6 reddit regularly just to throw some tips and congratulations at players. There are sooo many posts that have the "it may not mean anything to anyone else but I hit x rank!". A lot of people feel like they need to win evo to feel accomplished or something, when moving up from any rank to the next should feel just as huge.

[@lukeblaker8009]

Nope I rule at fighting games!

[@dmen0563]

My reactions aren't what they used to be these fast characters like deejay juri and the dumb ninja chick play at a pace I can't keep up with anymore

[@hugejackedman3447]

Nobody ever got good at anything without losing more often than winning? 🤔 Rocky Marciano 49-0 Jon Jones 27-0 Floyd Mayweather 50-0 Khabib Nurmagomedov 29-0 2007 New England Patriots perfect season 1972 Miami Dolphins perfect season

[@rafdes]

So any of these people and teams have never lost ever in their entire lives?

[@jamaledwards8118]

Patriots lost to the giants. Perfect season failed post season. Rocky took some Ls in his amateur days and so did Floyd Mayweather. Some people breed different while others have to work hard. Comparing is not going to help you get there.

[@hugejackedman3447]

@@jamaledwards8118Well ok mr technical! lol But I got a mixup waiting for you. Everyone has taken Ls in life. I got into a bad relationship. Got fired from a job once. Some people forget to use deodorant. I'm sure you have your list of Ls too. But there is a reason that those people I mentioned have 0s in their records. If those losses you mentioned were a factor, it would be impossible for such a concept as "being undefeated" to even exist because, well, they took Ls right? Rocky and Floyd amateur records are just that. The amateurs is a totally different beast than pros. Post season wouldn't be losing before winning. Post means "after" right? 😉

[@hugejackedman3447]

@@rafdes We have all lost at something! lol ut as I mentioned [in my other comment] we don't count those losses because if we did it would be impossible for there to be such a thing as going undefeated.

[@jamaledwards8118]

@@hugejackedman3447 You're arguing semantics here. Which ignores the quote entirely. The only correct thing you said was the 1972 dolphins which is iffy because its a team sport. Everyone else took defeats in their early careers where they were still learning/ developing their careers. These folks are undefeated in their pro league which is above amateur career. So of course the pro league stands out the most. Hell any pro record will stand out beyond amateur. Patriots being undefeated in the regular season just to lose in super bowl to a far weaker team was probably the biggest upset of the year. Nobody talks about those patriots due to the L at the superbowl. After that the patriots were back at the superbowl 5 more times with 3 wins and 2 losses. If you care about something enough you'll learn to surpass the very thing holding you back.