One Brush of the Armored Sleeve-Tulagi and Tenaru with special guest Dave Holland-Episode 113

This week Seth and Bill welcome historian and Guadalcanal expert Dave Holland to the show as they discuss the landings and subsequent fighting on Tulagi, Gavutu and Tanambogo. After diving into some of the personal stories of the Raiders and Paramarines who fought there, the trio dives deep into the history and story of the first of many major land battles on Guadalcanal, the Battle of the Tenaru River. Check out the video to see what the team talks about.
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[@smokinjoenew]

My Dad was on Guadalcanal as a sixteen year old whose parents let him join to have one less mouth to feed on a sharecroppers farm in Texas - I love this show !

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Hunger was a much bigger problem for families back then. Many guys who joined up talk about how wonderful it was to get 3 meals a day.

[@dabda8510]

@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar As someone who's also read alot, I mean a lot of WW2 personal memoirs, 3 square meals a day was a big deal. Loving this series also.

[@fxdpntc]

I believe that this was not uncommon all throughout the depression era. There were big families back then, and one less mouth to feed could make a big difference for the younger members.

[@craigjones3846]

My father joined the army at 16 and his height went from 6’1 to 6’6. He said Son they fed me. @@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar

[@SaundersE5]

Helluva of way to get 3 hots and a cot.

[@rolandtomkellam9306]

Today was my first experience with your KZbin video interview and exchange with Dave Holland. I assume it was my viewing of many of his battlefield walk videos that linked me to your pod cast, and I am thankful for that. I enjoyed this video and after I finished, I went to the Cactus Air Force video. I am a 70 year old 100% service connected disabled veteran. I flew helicopters in the Army until I was in an aircraft accident that left me in Lister Army Hospital at Ft. Rucker, Alabama for 6 months and then a medical discharge. For the past 35 years I have been a study of the Pacific Theater of Operations, especially the U.S. Marines and the Island hopping campaign. These brave men went ashore under fire with nothing more than a rifle and a khaki shirt. Their suffering was certainly on par with the D-Day invasion of June 6,1944, but they received little recognition in comparison. Guadalcanal, being the first, of many firsts holds a deep and fascinating interest for me. If I had to pick a second, it would be Peleliu. I read Eugene Sledge's book years ago and that just staggered my understanding of what battling the Japanese was really like. Reading this from a soldier's perspective was completely new to me, and it began a thirst for the personal biography of the combat Marine. I have read many of these personal accounts from the battle of Peleliu just as I have about the Canal. I also enjoy the silent service. Mush Morton, Richard Kane. I have taken up too much of your time, so I will close by adding I have subscribed and hit the bell so I can view your latest video right along with those I missed. Thank you.

[@jackr244]

Bless you for your service.

[@ColinFreeman-kh9us]

Hey Roland; , Dave Holland is great isn’t he. I’m Australian I really love his passion and detailed knowledge of the Solomon Islands, his accent is awesome to being half Aussie half American.

[@Tele999zzz]

As an Aussie, Dave is doing my head in. Interesting how he became more Alabama the longer he talked with you guys. Great talk, thanks

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Haha we noticed that too

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Bill answering-- when I first met Dave I said, "Can't place your accent." He said "mixture of Alabama and Australia." "That would explain it."

[@shoofly529]

I thought it was me when I first placed his accent as Alabama then it devolved into Austrailian...

[@vicmclaglen1631]

Highly unusual; interesting too that the US southern accent and expressions evolved from poor and mostly British immigrants...outcasts. Sound familiar? Ironic to see both of them blended on the other side of the world. British Empire may be history but its force continues on.

[@davidlavigne207]

@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I thought he might have been from North or South Carolina the first time I heard him speak, but he explained he was an Alabaman. He's still a "good ole' boy" at heart though I'm sure. One of the most knowledgeable fellas about this subject I know of.

[@lajinmark2084]

Loved the story about Sergeant Major Vouza! Sir Jacob Vouza What a guy! My fav is when he is making out his Last Will & Testament reliving his entire Life to Clemens and sort of enjoying the attention when Clemens realizes this guy is too tough to die! Wiki page says he received the Silver star from Vandergrift, Legion of Merit 2nd Raiders, Honorary Sergeant Major US Marines, George Medal and numerous other awards from The British government. Going on Carlsons famous 30 day Raid and it says he was buried in his Marine Corp tunic!!! What a Guy!!!!! Great stories!!!!

[@flparkermdpc]

What a guy, INDEED! I'm a Christian who believes in the eternal life Jesus came to give us, as and love some of the images that come to mind when men like Vouza show up in heaven wearing their USMC dress tunic and medals and as one "too tough to die" create a conundrum for St Peter on what to do with a not quite dead Sergeant Major. 😂😊😅. I realize this is theological nonsense... and probably worse dark humor.

[@Coffeeguyzz]

"There's the legends and then there's the truth to the legends". Well said. Great work.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Thanks much. SP

[@jefftack3461]

My father was stationed at Tulagi and later Guam as a USMC radar operator for 90 mm anti aircraft batteries in the 5th and 14th defense battalions. He told a story many times about the "capture" of a holdout and kept a diary detailing events such as air raids and damaged ships appearing in the vicinity. You guys are great. I loved this video. Thanks!

[@chuckhillier4153]

Respect for any US Marine. I worked with an old fellow who was an Ex-Marine. Had a bulldog statuette on his desk. He was in high school in Farmington, Maine in the very early 1950s. Many of his friends were in the Marine Reserves. They kept badgering him to join. They said that, after basic training, he would go to "drills" once each month and spend the weekend playing baseball. They could use him on their team. His mother took a lot of convincing, but finally relented and allowed him to enlist. He was in basic training when the North Koreans invaded the south. Before finishing basic, he was shipped to Korea. Before it was over, he was defending against mass Communist attacks firing quad truck-mounted 50 caliber machine guns. He survived to become a Maine State Trooper Sgt, retired and worked successfully with me in the private sector.

[@charliegiammarco5178]

Dirigo!

[@ibpopp]

Excellent series on the Pacific campaigns. Many thanks from Australia. Good work on learning English, Dave. You'll get it in another ten years. Cheerio from Wonga Willie.

[@flparkermdpc]

I love the deep Southern accents. Dave's is easlly understood, and he doesn't interrupt.😅His descriptions of an action are easily followed and make sense chronologically. Well played Dave!

[@davidlavigne207]

Great presentation! I've seen and heard Dave Holland before share his insights on WW2TV. His knowledge of the battles and the terrain is phenomenal. You can see his eyes light up when he is describing the fighting of his beloved Marine Corp as he describes the events that took place so many years ago. Semper Fi to him and to the Podcast for a wonderful bit of work.

[@ColinFreeman-kh9us]

Well said

[@johnrudy9404]

Thank you for the work you put in to these episodes. I often think about meeting the younger versions of people I knew as a kid, who fought in ww2. As young men who weathered the Great Depression and then went into combat, I would think most were tough as nails. My uncle Mike, who died as a paratrooper in the 466th PFAB, in Operation Varsity, was in the CCC out west, as a tree topper, by hand. Many stories like his. Japan and Germany greatly underestimated the fighting resolve of the US. Thank you to every serviceman for their service.

[@williamashbless7904]

I read ‘Zero’ (Saburo Sakai) as a kid and I seem to remember the incident resulting in his injury as encountering Avengers and it was .50 Cals that shredded his plane. Of course, that’s working from memory on a book I read nearly fifty years ago. Love your stuff!

[@user-vs3pt3kv9g]

Great work guys, i have been a constant visitor to the Solomon island now for many years. I once searched for this place and after a lot of hard , hot searching through long grass, I found a small memorial to the battle. it was exactly 50 years to the day!!

[@ppetr.8170]

My go to for long work commute. Passes effortlessly. Thanks to folks like y'all innit?

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Thanks!

[@fxdpntc]

I would highly recommend Dave’s video on the Battle of Alligator Creek, at his Walking the Battlefield KZbin channel. It puts you right on the ground where it happened, from both perspectives. Interesting facts on the Japanese Memorial. The Ichiki Detachment came all the way from Hokkaido for the Emperor.

[@tomt373]

According to Saburo Sakai in his biographical book "Samurai !", pages 100-101, he described the planes he was shot up by "the enemy planes [that] were not fighters, but bombers, the new [TBM] Avenger torpedo planes, types I had never seen before" (p. 101), as he was "coming up from their rear and below"(p. 100)-CLIMBING, not diving! He explains his mistake because at a distance of over 200 yards, "they appeared to be Wildcats" [fighters] (p. 100). With this description, they could not have been SBD's since the SBD's did not have any guns in a rear lower tunnel like the Avengers. The Grumman's through all of their major variants, the F4F, TBF/TBM both had the similar, distinctive Grumman wing shapes where the SBD's having rounded wing tips and tail planes.

[@chrisnizer5702]

We were taught about Sir Jacob Vouza at MCRD San Diego during one of the lectures we attended. He was promoted to honorary Sgt. Major by the 1st Marine Division and they eventually arranged for him to travel to the U.S. and visit with the Marines. Thanks for the video my friends, very good presentation. Semper Fidelis!

[@davidstallard2235]

thank you for the all the work you put in all your Podcast

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Our pleasure!

[@scottsherman6889]

Seth and Bill thank you for an awesome podcast! Keep up the great work! Praying for your recovery, Bill🙏

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Much appreciated!

[@middleclassretiree]

This was just wonderful guys thank you so much my father was a young marine on that beach and I always wanted to know more as he was pretty tight lipped about the war

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

As were so many men of that age

[@middleclassretiree]

After watching some of your wonderful programs I realized that my maternal grandparents had 3 sons all in the navy in the pacific fleet during the war a fact that I knew but never really understood how much stress that must of placed on them, especially after the Sullivan brothers all lost their lives and grandma and grandpa also lived in Iowa . Thank god they all made it home Harry and Bill the 2 oldest brothers both joined before the war and both received Purple Hearts Tommy being somewhat younger joined shortly after graduation from high school in 42. Thanks again for the work your doing I finally am able to get a accurate picture of what was really going on

[@MrPlankinton]

42:21 Victory Fever on Guadalcanal is the Best book I've ever read about the Battle of Alligator Creek and is my favorite.

[@michaelinsc9724]

Fantastic episode! Really enjoy hearing the accounts and that you bring in various experts. May I suggest / request that, when you have guests, you post a link to their social media in the description or in a pinned comment. I know it's given in the audio, but a link would be cool.

[@BlitherVids]

Another excellent and informative podcast as always, guys. Thanks to all of you for what you do.

[@planegaper]

Tulagi was important and well executed.. I still believe Coral Sea was the first major defeat in the general area.. Simply because the Japanese were hemmed back up to Rabaul, and never got to set up shop on Port Moresby...the defeat of which would have made Australia easy pickings..and Allied forces would have to be directed to defend it.. As such Allies had free reign in Nomura and Vanatau and poured resources into Guadalcanal, going on the proper offensive for the first time in the war.. Solomons were important, but there would be no Solomons campaign had Port Moresby fallen..

[@jackpitts1348]

Great work again!! Really look forward to each new podcast!

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Much appreciated!

[@gregcollins7602]

Wow. I love the KZbin channel Walking the Battlefield. Glad you have him on.

[@dennisj.elliott23]

Yes I would like to see Dave Holland again guys. 113 was a great experience that's how I take in your historical episodes. As far as I'm concerned you don't have to hesitate when talking about no prisoners.I know you have to but what you gonna do?

[@JosephKano]

Really enjoying catching up on this series fantastic stuff.

[@ph89787]

31:03 adding onto that. The SBDs that Sakai and his chūtai spotted was a flight from VB-6 (Enterprise) led by Lt Carl Horenburger.

[@johnwilson9364]

Super stuff. Incredible narratives, almost bring the battles to life. Thank you.

[@riverisland111]

I never get tired of Dave, his insight and knowledge. Love him and Peter for all they do. Someday I will go to the Canal.

[@johnmoore9404]

Very good episode. Great insights and local info. Dave does a great job.

[@ronaldmcmullen9934]

Enjoy the podcast…. Keep the coming

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

They are!

[@thomasbernecky2078]

Thanks for the real history, gentlemen.

[@craigplatel813]

The USN didn't lose 50% of their fighter aircraft on the first day. They lost 15 of 99 fighters. They did lose 50% of the fighters engaged during the Betty bomber attack, but not 50% of the total fighters on the 3 carriers.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

That is correct. I misspoke. The 50% loss rate was sustained by the F4Fs that participated in the defense against the Betty's and Zeroes that first day. Thanks.

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

​@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar That's exactly how a comment thread should go. No haters, just a simple correction and we move on! I will say this about your podcast though, the amount of work you guys put into this is astounding! Along with having "real jobs" you do this every week which I find just incredible! 🇺🇲⚓️💖👌

[@stuartdollar9912]

I love the story about Jacob Vousa. What a great man.

[@muckeyduck3472]

My dad told me that when the bombers you talk of came over the island the naval guns just rolled them up. In some cases the bombers were flying so low that the ships could not aim the guns below a low enough angle to shot them down. But he said that he could look into the eyes of some of the bomber pilots.

[@richardhall7094]

Awesome podcast again. Great work fellas!

[@rtqii]

The Wiki page for this battle has photos and maps that really add to the story: Battle of Tulagi and Gavutu-Tanambogo - The last photo on the page are the grim faced Marine ground commanders taken just _after_ the battle.

[@riverisland111]

great job, Dave is incredible

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

He is indeed.

[@jovianmole1]

The remarkable photo of the Betty IJN bombers attacking the USN anchorage described by the speakers shows three aircraft on the deck. PO2 Jun Takahashi (far left aircraft) piloted 1 of only 5 Betty's from the 4th Kokutai to survive this 8/8/1942 torpedo mission. 5 of 17 or 23, depending on the source. The Betty's height was 16' 1". Measuring with the Mk 1 Eyeball, it can't be flying much higher than that in this photo. The far right Betty appears to be even lower. If you find the photo note the tremendous volume of AAA and the destroyers in the background going full speed as shown by their wakes. Takahashi survived WW2, and was the oldest active pilot on Earth at age 92 as of 2017, towing gliders in Japan.

[@smedleyhverovhe8919]

Great discussion. I would suggest adding maps to the narrative would add to the presentation. Retired Army here. We lived by maps.

[@talltaleswithtacobell]

Well done Gents, I really enjoyed it and look forward to catching up on your past podcast! Happy new year and keep them coming! Semper Fi Taco @Talltaleswithtaco

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Same to you!

[@crwmdp9]

Phenomenal, thank you

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Glad you liked it!

[@tomcarr1358]

Good to watch Google Maps at the same time as listening to all in podcast. Position of rivers and marine lake gives good orientation. Japanese memorial shown is another marker.

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

I know your comment was a year ago but that really picked my interest about the Google Map thing. Do you just Google Guadalcanal? Or do you have to be more specific? Thanks for your time! 🇺🇲⚓️💖👌

[@tomcarr1358]

I click on Safari and then type Google Maps. You should see a box on the top left hand side of the frame displayed. Enter the name of your place of interest in the box and press return although the last action may be unnecessary. TC .@@Jakal-pw8yq

[@billyhouse1943]

Thank you.. still catching up on the first year episodes.

[@dougm5341]

Outstanding podcast gentlemen….

[@patrickwwevans]

I would love to hear more about how the battle of Buna Goda / Kokoda track and how it compares and contrasts to the American leadership in Guadalcanal campaign.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Coming next week.

[@fredferd965]

Referring to the Goetege Patrol, one of the men who was lost was a Custer, a Sergeant Custer, I think. The Little Big Horn was not the only massacre a Custer was involved in.

[@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349]

1st Sgt Custer was a top rated NCO. Goettge should have listened to him more. I have an episode on this patrol which features now and then of the site.

[@fredferd965]

@@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349 I agree with you, and no disrespect to 1st Sgt Custer was intended. It was just the irony of the name and the event that got to me. When I was a police photographer in Las Vegas many years ago, we had an officer by the name of Custer. He said that yes he was a distant relative, and that they were a big family. Just kidding with the man, I said, "I hope you don't take this wrong, but I'm not following you anywhere.!" He laughed at that. He didn't know about Guadalcanal, so I explained it to him.

[@SaundersE5]

Amazing episode, thanks!

[@dennisevans4739]

Excellent thank you.... Vietnam Vet Riverboat Brown Water Navy..

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

There is a movie about Sgt Albert Schmid. I saw it when I was a kid, back mid 60's Pride of the Marines.

[@charlesfaure1189]

Well done.

[@DanielMulloy-bg6gw]

Sakei was shot through the right eye, the bullet went into his brain and he didn't die, amazing.

[@walterrider9600]

thank you

[@craigplatel813]

The Betty bomber attack on 7 august wasn't rearmed with torpedos. Lt Egawa Tenpei was schedule to attack Rabi with 27 betty's and 9 zeros. They were redirected to G-csnal with their original loaf of 2x250kg and 4 x 60kg bombs

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

The attack on the 8th was equipped with torpedo armed Betty bombers.

[@craigplatel813]

@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar correct. I believe you stated that the attack on the 7th was rearmed with torpedos.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

@@craigplatel813 well crap. If I did, thanks for catching. My bad.

[@ted356]

My uncle was a US Army Combat Engineer who drove a bladed armored vehicle and mainly built air strips all over the Pacific. He rarely talked about his experiences. He was unforgiving towards Japan throughout his life. When a family member bought a Japanese built car, he was very disapproving. Not sure what all he witnessed, but I’m sure it affected him deeply, And, he also was not a fan of Dugout Doug.

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

The Japanese 'knee mortar' was a 50mm grenade launcher. And it was intended to be braced aginst a log, not a knee. Doing so, was a guaranteed broken kneecap, as the recoil was too strong.

[@theeducatedgrunt2087]

Sgt Major Vouza is More of an American then most Americans now... Great man.

[@jonbarrows970]

B🎉

[@davidlee8551]

Thank you:

[@MegaBloggs1]

very good -dave really knows his stuff-why did the japanese underestimate the american artillery in later battles after it was inflicted on them at the tenaru river

[@johnspurrell1200]

There was no one left to warn them probably, or if there was he wasn't believed. Any survivors would have been on the perimeter, in the rear, and probably couldn't have seen or experienced the scope or been in a position physically or emotionally to present or even remember a detailed or sequential account.

[@clinthowe7629]

I know, i too thought he was from Australia, when he was giving that talk about the battle of the sandbar at alligator creek i thought i heard aussie then i figured out he had some southern mixed in.

[@jamesharper7661]

I hope you do a podcast that is specific to the air battles during the Guadacanal campaign.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

We will. Give us time.

[@jamesharper7661]

@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar Excellent! You guys do such a great job fleshing out little details that matter. Thanks!

[@mykofreder1682]

The Japanese were experienced, but in China, probably faced poorly trains and equipped formations and they did not face a WW1 front line. Here they faced worse than a WW1 front, the hand-held rifles and automatic weapons along with the machine guns probably could withstand a 5 or 10 to 1 disadvantage. They come in mass, every pullet on the right trajectory will hit something, they come strung out you have 1 target per defender and even the rifles probably could put out 5-10 rounds a minute, though I don't think they had the M1s yet. As far as Japan goes, they fought traditional defensive battles in the Solomons campaigns, they probably lost more men in the water than on land sending in men and supplies. By the end of the first year, I suspect they realized that and went to defeatist tactics of abandoning troops once engaged, with orders to sit in holes and wait to lose and die.

[@rcwagon]

Nitpick: I would argue that the precedence was revealed, not set at these battles on and around Guadacanal.

[@davedavedave52]

You are never a "former" Marine. I have found being a an NCO in the ARMY. I still am an NCO. So much of what I learned comes automaticly even tho I'm 64

[@SaundersE5]

Got ya, I’m 65 I’m still in my mind a Ranger from C Co. 1st Battalion

[@chadrowe8452]

Tulagi was first because of the Japanese seaplanes were excellent. By taking tulagi it helped blur the vision of the Japanese which gave the meager u.s. forces a much better chance of survival

[@philh2497]

How is it that this channel only has 8k subs?

[@Cometkazie]

The Three Amigos score again!

[@scottyfox6376]

I'm surprised General Douglas Macarthur didn't receive another Medal of Honour for his epic defence of Alligator Creek via a press conference.😆

[@jimtomlinson4427]

Seth said, "Teeth." TEEEETH!!!!

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Hahahahaa. Lord I remember that story. Good times.

[@craigjones3846]

The accent is Glorious. Sounds like a little Georgia accent with Alabama drawl.

[@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349]

Good pick. I was raised on the Alabama-Georgia line in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains.

[@MrPlankinton]

58:14 Ichiki had only five days of rations for his men and HAD to take the Marine base or starve.

[@jefftheriault5522]

At the Tenaru, it feels like the Japanese commander was harking back to the operations against the British in Malaya. He expected a particular response from the white guys, and kept pushing to get the reaction he expected.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Very likely

[@964cuplove]

As a German I would really appreciate a map outlining the basic, the Salomones, the location of Tulagi, the topography the southern areas the alternative landing across some reefs, also things like hill 181 etc. hard to locate that on Google or Apple Maps or google earth…

[@mycroft1905]

Another contender for first turning point in Pacific War; Battle of Milne Bay. TFP

[@tomhutchins7495]

One thing that has always shocked me when reading about the Pacific War is the perception at least that the Japanese would try to kill soldiers or medics who were trying to save them after a battle. I've definitely read a few reliable accounts of this happening, especially with downed airmen and PT boats, but also learned recently of Japanese-American volunteers and POWs who managed to talk some soldiers out of caves. What was the truth? Was this a general thing, or rare but emphasised due to the difference from European norms of war and racial prejudices against the Japanese?

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Both are the truth. The Japanese, in most cases, refused to be taken POW and did and would kill Americans attempting to help them. That is a documented fact. As far as your other point, yes there were Americans who tried to lure Japanese, and more often, civilians from caves to get them to either surrender or be taken out of harm's way.

[@billsmith5593]

Just a note. Would like to know when marines started to receive m 1 rifles

[@larryfarr3075]

They have described their special guest expert as a former Marine. I have never met a former Marine just not active Marine. They are always a Marine stamped as a Marine.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

You are correct, sir.

[@PFWoody488]

Good guest. That Alabama Aussie sho nuff knows his stuff.

[@garfieldfarkle]

I had the pleasure of knowing many Old Breed Marines who were on those operations, including a number of Edson's Raiders. Edson was a stone cold killer and so were his Raiders, many of whom had distinguished careers, such as Antonelli, Walt, Chambers, Pettus, Griffith, etc. They all had "Silent Lew" Walt stories - surpassed only by the Chesty sea stories heard among the Old Breed when they gathered. I never heard any of them ever say they determined to take no prisoners before they went into combat on Tulagi or anywhere else, nor did I ever hear of such a thing being some sort of motto. It doesn't sound right. They were mighty lethal but that does not sound like the kind of thing I heard. They were fierce in combat and stone cold killers, like I said, but I never heard any of the Raiders or other Old Breed First Marine Division Marines describe themselves that way.

[@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349]

Thanks for the comments. Yes they were well trained and you would have to go into the many memoirs and one on one sessions I’ve heard and have been engaged in with these vets. Many stated they were told no prisoners were to be taken. I actually have documentation of those orders being issued in the 2nd Raiders especially Nov 42 during their long patrol. It’s something that many did not discuss later and if then only with other vets. Anyone that declares himself a killer and/or boasts of their kill counts is normally full of BS in my experience.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Completely agree Dave. I knew a ton of the Old Breed, and I never heard a single one say they took prisoners. They did not boast about it at all, but they emphatically told me on numerous occasions that they DID NOT take prisoners. Ever.

[@garfieldfarkle]

@@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349 I never knew anyone in Carlson's Raiders - they were a whole separate deal. Carlson learned a lot from the Communist Chinese and Mao valued prisoners because he used them as a weapon. After encountering some of the atrocities committed by the Japanese, there were times Marines would just swear to themselves to take no prisoners. The success that Pappy Moran had right from the beginning interrogating prisoners on Guadalcanal had to have been known in general terms, at least.

[@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349]

@@garfieldfarkle Infantry Marines in general throughout the Pacific War did not take prisoners which is very well documented. Australian infantry especially in New Guinea did not either. My wife’s grandfather told me after fighting the Germans, Italians and Vichy French that they never bothered even trying to take Japanese prisoners as they were just plain mean. My step father, 3/7 Vietnam vet, 3 x PH, told me they rarely took prisoners. All my senior NCO’s, Vietnam guys, when I joined told me the same even though it’s against the law of land warfare. One Raider vet told me it was the corpsman duties at time to shoot the ‘dead’ Japanese in the head after they passed by the bodies. Many of the Japanese killed on Guadalcanal especially by the Raiders, were killed on the trail side or in bush hospitals that were sick or wounded. It was an unpleasant task which many remembered having to do with knives and bayonets. Rarely discussed afterwards. War is a terrible thing.

[@garfieldfarkle]

​@@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349 The major reason Marines did not take a lot of Japanese prisoners is they rarely surrendered. Still, Pappy Moran and other Marine interrogators did not lack for work and they were so effective that Moran's "Gold Standard" is taught to Marine interrogators today. Since we're talking about Marine Raiders, one of the most distinguished of Edson's Raiders was "Silent Lew" Walt, 2NC, 1SS, PH, BSw/V, DSC, LoM, etc. Both Navy Crosses were initially Medal of Honor recommendations. On the wall of Silent Lew's home were a crossed pair of Samurai swords. There came a time on Peleliu when Marines were trying to get some Japanese soldiers in a cave to surrender. The Japanese hollered out they would surrender, but only to Lew Walt. They asked for him by name. They knew he was commanding the Marines they were fighting and they said they would surrender, but only to him. Everyone thought it was a trap and they thought to just blast it, but when Walt heard about it he agreed to accept their surrender. Sure enough, two Japanese officers came out of the cave and surrendered their swords to Walt. They said they did not consider it to be so dishonorable to be surrendering to such a great warrior. That was an exception. Most of the time the Japanese fought to the death. A lot of prisoners were taken because they were wounded or shell-shocked. There are video, photographic and textual records of Marines taking Japanese prisoners.

[@leeadams5941]

When your co-host was a commodore was it a one-star rank?

[@markmulligan571]

One Brush of the Armored Sleeve, indeed. So please describe in detail what your title implied. The counterattack by 1/1 Marines and X light tanks (out on some wooded spit beyond Alligator Creek? I have yet to see a precise tactical map). Some Marine Lt. commanded the tank element. First Lieutenant or Second? Was he leading a full platoon of runners, a reinforced platoon of X tanks, an understrength company of Y? Once they got into the kill zone, did the tanks go in alone? Did they gun down, with MGs and canister, routing light infantry that had lost its heavy weapons (and perhaps ammunition entirely)? I have read dribs and dabs of this account. The ideal armored attack occurs after penetration of MLR lines, when a cloud of tanks (and armored infantry and armored guns, etc., but not always) hunts down light infantry (headquarters, battery gunners, check points and bridges, supply dumps and convoys, troops and trucks in convoy). I have read no after action reports on such massacres that armored units are designed for. Alligator Creek would serve as a good, minute by minute account with a good map. Was 1/1 trained in tank/infantry cooperation? Infantry survives by going to ground under fire; tanks survive by running fast and many into fire. Takes a lot of training to accept casualties in both units by compromise. Anyway, thank you for your detailed presentation of the rest of these battles.

[@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349]

The title originated from the Japanese commander Ichiki. He said that all it would take to remove the Marines from Guadalcanal was one brush of the armored sleeve. Nothing to do with tanks. The Marines had no real tank-infantry training. The tanks went across the sandbar and were supported by one platoon of G company. They broke formation and acted singularly supported by infantry. I have the after action reports from the 1st Tank Bn that goes into detail.

[@RobertPaskulovich-fz1th]

This exegesis is superlative.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

Thank you for stating the actual begining of WWII was in China not Poland.

[@carrabellefl]

Dave Holland, "That ain't ..." Thats pure Alabama! Seth can also drop an occasional ain't.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

U.S. Southern boys tend to use improper English at times. -SP

[@carrabellefl]

@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar Down here in the Redneck Riveria that ain't improper English!!! BTW this is 3rd time I have reviewed.this episode. Glad to see you moniter comments.

[@Thumpalumpacus]

Where the Japanese joined the "F*** around and find out" club.

[@kentiffany8872]

My dad said dogs were sent into the caves. They would not kill the dog. The dog would roust them out. If hands empty they would live. Otherwise they were shot.

[@rogerpattube]

You can talk all you like about which side was attacking versus holding ground but the first defeat inflicted on the Japanese was at Milne Bay, before Guadalcanal.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Nope. That was on August 25. So no, you’re wrong. And to be true it was actually during the defense of the Philippines.

[@rogerpattube]

Wow that was quick thanks! I stand corrected.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

@@rogerpattube Didn’t mean to sound snarky if I did. I appreciate the comment.

[@rogerpattube]

@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar No problem thanks for your follow up. Incidentally, my 'source' on this (mistaken) point was Michael Veitch's audio book about the Battle of Milne Bay, 'Turning Point'. I think his point was that Milne Bay was the first time the Japanese were successfully repulsed/ turned back? I will check although it's hard to find things on an audio format. BTW loving your podcasts you guys have a great thing going.

[@petestorz172]

I wonder whether the Korean and Formosan laborers regarded themselves as prisoners or liberated.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

I do believe they saw themselves as slaves who were liberated.

[@kemarisite]

Richard Frank mentions their presence and states that they fled the landing with the Japanese troops. They were subsequently kind of distributed along the trails from Japanese landing sites to where they would stage their attacks, with the intention the laborers would help the troops on the march and otherwise left to fend for themselves. I imagine any who did manage to surrender and distinguish themselves from Japanese soldiers would have regarded themselves as liberated.

[@richardmardis2492]

Love that F- up accent 🤣❤️

[@reneprovosty7032]

yeh aussie and alabama , funny :)

[@joemitchell877]

GUNG HO. PLEASE EXPLAIN THE ORIGINS OF " GUNG HO

[@kemarisite]

I thought this was pretty well known among Raiders aficionados. Supposedly, the Marine Raiders took a heavy influence from Evans Carlson's experience in China with the communists. Gung ho is a Chinese phrase meaning something like "strive together harmoniously", which Carlson brought to the Raiders and popularized as a motto for streamlining hierarchies and not letting brass and bullcrap get in the way of getting the assigned task done.

[@DanielMulloy-bg6gw]

GUNG HO is a Chinese word that means to work together harmoniously.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

The Japanese experience in China reinforced their sense of superiority. The Chinese unfortunately lacked training and equipment. That is part of the reason they kept using these tactics.

[@CatWithBagOnHead]

鎧がい袖しゅう一いっ触しょく • (gaishū isshoku)

[@jimczerwinski4951]

Break your heart

[@terryhale9006]

Thank you for consistently pointing out that the Japanese took slaves, both men and women, in Korea and forced them to work for them in the South Pacific.

[@ahuse1]

do not pull out prematurely

[@arcray12]

Think of today`s 16-17 years olds. Could they handle anything like the Canal?

[@SaundersE5]

They could because they’d have no other choice.

[@henryburby6077]

the americans were much better armed, trained, and organized than the Chinese army forces which the Japanese were used to fighting. Frontal human wave attacks, the so-called "bonsai" charge, actually worked in china against enemies without automatic weapons.

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

I thought maybe he grew up Aussy... And move to the states..