Dan and Phil: A Phandom Autopsy

[@uncleherman]

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[@Handlehater564]

if you're Uncle Herman.. then where's Dad Herman?

[@in_dyy]

im really glad people are coming together to realise just how fucked up the phandom was in that era. a lot of the original fans from back in the day have since matured and respect them and their boundaries now but since their return the fetishisation is coming back up from the younger audience that are being introduced to them now

[@ellabiddy4741]

I can’t believe I wrote a smutty fanfic about them. I mean I was 12 but still

[@nineinchthread]

I was apart of the fandom but wasn't that deep into it like my friend,at the time who got me into it.but I definitely was interested in the shipping stuff but now I'm completely not for it .

[@tiasmith3499]

​@@ellabiddy4741I wrote a fanfic once too but it was a joke one when I was bored

[@hiraethari]

​@@ellabiddy4741 and i was probably the reader when i was also 12

[@UnBesoDeCristal]

yeah, older audiences love to point put how much better it is now but when you read the comments in their gaming videos (the incoherent game vid comments are almost exclusively discussing and speculating the details of their sex lives and sexual positions... because of 1 sex joke, as if it was an invitation) and the compilation videos speculating intimate details about their earlier relationship are popping in my feed because i watch their gaming vids... its literally still relevant to how young audiences are encouraged to interact with gay men online as a fetish. And theres the whole discussion about how it is justified since they capitalize on it with some clickbait titles now and then but honestly? I don't think it is, not when they're usually comedic titles and these speculations and explicit content isn't made with comedic intent but to fulfill fantasies, its sickening to me that when people talk about yaoi and gay male romances written by and for audiences that aren't those in the content (usually but not exclusively straight girls) they aren't deemed exploitative, but when gay entertainers exist in the public eye their fetishization is justified due to marketing and they're considered to be exploiting their audience more than their straight peers, via homosexuality? I really think it's a weird double standard.

[@cheaptadpole]

on some level its really sad that for most phannies this is just a cringey thing they did when they were kids but dan and phil clearly have long lasting damage because of it

[@Billibab]

This!🎯‼️

[@mmaantj]

Honestly one of the scariest things that came out of the internet

[@rita6276]

i don't think they have "long lasting damage", i actually think it's the opposite (though it was really cringe and gross) nowadays they seem like they've flourished and you can tell in their videos that they've become more comfortable with themselves and their audience than ever

[@arabellas70s]

​@@rita6276the gross fanfiction and fanart, the incessant invasion of their privacy and constant fetishising coming from their audience probably didn't and doesn't contribute to their flourishing

[@bluebay1031]

@@arabellas70sI don’t think they were saying it contributed to their flourishing, just that there doesn’t seem to be any lasting damage from it that’s affecting them. You could definitely tell it was getting to them in the height of it because they didn’t seem like they felt they could establish those boundaries or call people out (rightfully so, imo, 2012-2016 fandoms in general were often…an entitled mess), but nowadays both of them are incredibly open about what does and does not make them comfortable and pointing out when fandom behavior is gross and going too far (technically Dan moreso than Phil, but that’s honestly kind of always been the case).

[@choerryisanangel8813]

I’ve always found it so surprising how very few have made a video essay on the phandom, considering how perfect a case study into toxic fan culture it is and how it’s still relevant today

[@cori742]

i think it's the same reason why people don't make a lot of videos on kpop fandoms lol no one wants to touch it

[@cryingchurch]

a few years ago, a youtuber made a video similar as this one and they got attacked/bullied into deleting their video. Dan and phil fans said it would attract ppl to look deeper in the phandom and invade dan and phil space again.

[@Ellie_xo]

​@@cori742kpop fans scare me....I feel like they're legit capable of putting hits out on people who don't agree with them about their idols 💀

[@gracel2mart]

Literally! My time in the Phandom is why I had alarm bells ringing when the ship DNF rose in popularity

[@BlueTemplex]

I used to be a BIG fan of Dan and Phil and I mean since they came back I still watch their new vids, but looking back on how the phandom was is actually INSANE

[@keelantriplett7137]

im so glad someones finally talking abt the "phandom" bc it felt like a fever dream

[@strawbbtarte]

It really, really did

[@theclairewhy]

Ashley Norton also has a great video on it

[@raspberrytaegi]

plenty of people are though i don’t get these comments

[@strawbbtarte]

@@raspberrytaegi from a lot of our perspectives, it looks like not a lot are. Keep in mind many of us have distanced ourselves so far from fandom behavior in general that discussions on it don't even touch our feed.

[@doggydog7840]

The phandom completely engulfed my life from 6th to 7th grade

[@strawbunnyyy]

also leaking floor plans of their flat while one of phil’s genuine fears is home invasion is fucking evil

[@autumnishhhhh]

Now that I've reached the age Dan was when all of this started, I can't even imagine having millions of strangers speculating if me and my best friend were dating, and wanting all the details. Dan and Phil were honestly so graceful about everything they were put through

[@embertrynka257]

one of the worst parts about dan and phil’s career is not only were their own fans tryna out them SO WERE OTHER CREATORS. hated shane dawson and those evil psychic twins from the jump because of how hard they tried to out them and their relationship. the psychic twins in particular have hundreds of phannies blocked because they keep demanding that the twins apologize (as they should)

[@vyou1]

YES exactly!!!

[@jamiesprinkbob]

its even weirder that it was shane dawson bc he was also closted for a long time

[@blinkingbat7447]

Pretty sure Emma Blackery also inserted herself in a lot of the phan stuff, always felt a bit weird

[@blackk_rose_]

@@jamiesprinkbob Sadly, queer people do this kind of stuff to other queer people all the time. Often they feel justified because they don't actually think the person is queer (the typical queerbaiting assumption), so they don't believe they're harming an actual queer person. Sometimes once people are out they believe every other queer person should also come out because it worked for them.

[@jamiesprinkbob]

@@blinkingbat7447 omfg i forgot about that

[@alexandraRatliff]

For those worried about them, they are now living in a house they own and designed together and started posting many videos again on their gaming channel and some on their personal channels as well. They seem to be in good spirits and living their best lives so thankfully the toxic parts of the phandom haven’t destroyed their lives permanently. They are doing well (and they are still quite entertaining to watch)

[@janellygodinez5304]

I remember catrific... I truly feel sorry for that girl. She deserves an apology for the online bullying.

[@phantomlovebs]

What ever happened to her? I haven't heard her name in YEARS

[@wasgutmeinbruder111]

@@phantomlovebsfr

[@calci2679]

@@phantomlovebsshe had been treated like garbage by both fans and some creators (not Dan and Phil). I wouldn’t blame her if she just up and left.

[@emmakaisa27]

Omg I had forgotten about her but now I remember absolutely LOATHING her... just because I had a crush on Dan and I though she was stealing him away from me. Like WTF??? I WAS A CHILD AND HAD NEVER EVEN MET DAN!! And I would hate on this innocent woman, well, I never sent her hate messages or comments but I definitely didn't see anything wrong with it. I honestly thought all the hate and all the Dan x y/n fanfics where she was slandered were justified... that poor woman

[@randomnameforarandomnerd8400]

i remember literally crying when i saw hate for her one time. i thought she was so funny and had a great dynamic with dan. i really wanted to see more content of them together but now i see why that didn’t come to fruition. at least i could just click to a new video to forget about how she was treated. that poor woman, she had no escape online.

[@alexandraRatliff]

I’m always shocked that there aren’t more Dan and phil/phandom video essays. They really were such an influential case study in para social relationships and toxic fan culture

[@raspberrytaegi]

those are the buzzwords for “evil” everyone is throwing around without nuance these days. so yeah, perfect for video essays lmao

[@alexandraRatliff]

@@raspberrytaegi nuance unfortunately has been completely lost to the general public it seems

[@chickenintranslation2919]

There’s literally so many lol

[@finntracy3235]

@@chickenintranslation2919 do you have any good recs? the ones ive found are more summaries/accounts rather than analysis

[@lucymay446]

My favourite thing now is that in their new videos they're taking the piss out of this behaviour and putting people in their place which they haven't really done before as the past behaviour and actions was conducted by children. However the fans have grown up and hopefully matured so Dan and Phil can effectively tell them off for what they did.

[@UnBesoDeCristal]

They're truly impressive for maintaining their close relationship (whatever that might be idc) throughout this, when shipping culture destroyed so many friendships and relationships.

[@miniaturephilosopher]

I saw "the video" quite a few years ago when someone sent it to me. I didn't start watching them until well after the controversy, so I didn't know the story behind it and thought I would be rolling my eyes at someone's attempt at "proof." Needless to say there's a reason they didn't want people spreading it around, and I felt awful about having watched it. Dan's coming out video was very powerful and gave a lot of context about what he was feeling while all these things were happening. I really can't imagine going through as someone who was already dealing with that trauma and internalized homophobia. I'm pretty disgusted by the people who felt it was okay to try to out them or to investigate the parts of their life they were clearly trying to keep private. I started watching them again last year when they started posting on their gaming channel again, and it's really great to see how much more comfortable they are, and how they're even able to poke fun at all of this mess (i.e. Phil's refrain of "they're touching!" while rewatching the PINOF videos.) I'm glad to see that they're doing okay, and I hope that when people see the hell they were put through, they will hesitate to do this to anyone else.

[@Nyanpuddi]

i literally was reading phanfiction in the mental hospital i think it says enough

[@iwaterboardchildren]

They let y'all use phones over there? 😭 I got everything taken from me (including my clothes)

[@Nyanpuddi]

@@iwaterboardchildrenmy country isnt that strict and it was for kids we were allowed phones during day in our rooms but no wifi (were talking about 10 years ago)

[@bluebosnian]

when i found out that dan and phils flat was actually a set (from their one roblox video), i felt so bad for them. i cant imagine feeling that your safety and privacy is always on the line.

[@ericameadows2878]

wait what? i didn’t know this that’s crazy what video do they talk abt this in? feel like my minds just been blown

[@ipurpleu1668]

@@ericameadows2878 in the episode of Dystopia Daily that Phil is in. It was just an apartment below their own that they used for videos cause they didn’t want to film their bedroom. It was really just them having an “office space” for gaming videos more than some crazy apartment set.

[@katy-hn2jm]

@@ericameadows2878 they bought two flats, one was for filming their videos and the other was for actually living in. on their gaming channel, they have a video looking at the recreation of their flat on roblox, which is scarily accurate.

[@touch-faith]

@@ericameadows2878 there's a vid they did where they looked themselves up on roblox and one thing they found was a recreation of their original london flat. the "fake" apartment was the second london flat which they lived in while they waited for their house to be built; they address this in the "dan and phil finally tell the truth" video which is shown at 25:22

[@piixelll]

@@ericameadows2878 they talked about it in "dan and phil finally tell the truth", the clip is also in this video at 25:20

[@v0n12z]

21:00 that's honestly insane thinking back on it because sharing/stealing clothes from your best friend you live with is SO NORMAL. i steal my friends clothes and i dont even live with them 💀

[@JaiFlame]

I still keep hoodies and I figure it evens out bc they take my pants and socks. 😂

[@lilykep]

About 5 years ago when Phil posted about cutting his hair I commented on the video "I like your new hair!" and he responded "my new hair likes you" which was super cool of him. I was understandably pretty hyped that he responded so I took a screenshot and shared it on tumblr. Most of the feedback was other fans who were happy for me, however, I did get 2 anon messages that were from people who had obviously lost the plot. I deleted them both cause you don't give people like that attention, but if I got anon hate for a simple reply to a comment years after the Phandom chilled out I *can't imagine* the level of hate someone like Cat got.

[@summertroupe]

God, we were awful. But I’ll always love the fact that, even if they make jokes, DnP never overtly blamed us for it since we were young. They’re better than me tho cuz if I were in their shoes I sure would!!!!!!

[@strawbbtarte]

Forreal, kind and understanding souls

[@tessrzeszutko3682]

and like I dont and never blamed dan when he left, seeing all of this makes you really take all of it into account. Also so much of the tier 5 and most of this stuff how did we get so right and so wrong!

[@summertroupe]

@@tessrzeszutko3682 I haven’t finished this video but i think the absolute most despicable behavior was when they harassed his real life younger brother it breaks my heart thinking about it

[@UnBesoDeCristal]

It's shitty that someof the same audiences who were both teens or older when they fetishized them back in the early and mid 2010s actually grew up to actually defend that behavior on websites like indepthbants and reddit, and basically claim they were inviting homophobic fetishization by being in the public eye, or that basically nobody does that anymore when its untrue, or that they should be grateful it gave them views and should stop talking about the negative effects of being a public figure as if they've ever denied its also a privilege? Its all a double standard

[@obish4476]

this!

[@scottbuck1572]

Im actually really glad more people are using the word lore to describe internet phenomenon; lore is a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth. It PERFECTLY describes how fandoms and internet culture works

[@samanthabrown4833]

I see so many similarities between their story and Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson. its amazing that Dan and Phil were able to remain friends throughout the wierd shipping, where as Harry and Louis it appears stopped being friends because of it

[@hattarapilvi]

i think thats because dan and phil actually are gay and (most likely) in a relationship, unlike harry and louis. however i think most couples wouldnt have lasted through all that dan and phil were put through so good on them.

[@user-ru3zw6lz9h]

@@hattarapilvi oh boy here we go again

[@lonelytweaker]

@@user-ru3zw6lz9hI mean yeah they’re gay. They’re probably not in a relationship though honestly lol.

[@MidnightEkaki]

@@hattarapilvi theyre not in a relationship theyre just friends. gay ppl dont fuck every gay friend they have u know ffs

[@FritiofYoutube]

@@lonelytweaker not to keep beating a dead horse, but if you´ve seen Phils leaked valentine video, it is undeniable. It´s literally a love letter.

[@pikachori]

as soon as you said “hamster” talking about fanfic, you unlocked a core memory i put in a box and thrown far away in my brain. holy shit

[@gothicGumshoe]

Their coming out videos and Dan's reveal that they had had some kind of relationship is what made me stop. It made me realise how fucking terrified they must have been. How much it must have damaged them. I always thought that if they came out I'd be ecstatic but I spent that whole day really, really upset with myself.

[@popcandy44]

I used to love Dan and Phil and had a big old crush on both of them, haha. Weirdly enough, never considered they might be gay, I was actually a bit shocked when Dan's video came out (in a good way, good for them!) That being said, even as a teen, I thought the people shipping them together were a bit strange. Like, in the worst case scenario, they're not into each other, and you make their friendship weird and best case scenario they are into each other, and you've turned their real feelings into some weird fetish content.

[@horacethecheese1009]

I always thought that the best case and worst case scenarios were the other way round. I first came across the fandom when I was 10 years old and found people's behaviour icky and stupid. I'm any case, you are either fetishising or making fun of an imaginary gay relationship. What's the joke? It's not funny. It felt so bizarre and alienating. And Dan n Phil, well at least they were forgiving and made bank.

[@UnBesoDeCristal]

Exactly!

[@elthereall]

I also never considered they might be gay, I was just excited to see a video by them. I was on tumblr a lot but on the side of tumblr that was very clear that shipping real people was wrong and writing fics about real people was wrong/creepy/weird. Especially during this time with phan and people are shipping tyler oakley/troye sivan (troyler?). I remember ‘shipping’ band members from emo bands (ships that came from Bryan Stars interviews, anyone remember this time lol) and then that moved into One Direction fanfics. Around that time is when I started to see a lot of tumblr essays about whether it was okay to ship real people. So there were definitely people talking about all of these ships being creepy on tumblr at the time! Just not the majority I guess

[@frejo1931]

Yeah, i was a casual fan who just liked the video and while I had vaguely assumed Dan was bi (mostly because of the diss track) I genuinely thought phil was straight

[@sleepmore8587]

I was shocked too. Dan called himself straight at that time, who am I to question that?

[@frootisland4672]

holy shit hearing that there are phans that _still_ send hate to cat is insane- i actually had to pause the video

[@snailcorn7480]

uncle herman, you sound especially masculine today and i am in awe of your true alpha presence

[@uncleherman]

I'm flattered!

[@stannosaurus]

Its not often talked about, but many gay relationships are highly fetishized by young female fans. Ive seen it with shows, real people, people in social circles, really anywhere. It's similar to the fetishization of lesbian relationships minus the wanting to sleep with the person who is not into you.

[@ambiguoussarcasm]

With how much people bash fujoshis (with reason), it gets talked about a lot actually, sometimes bordering on misogyny (like James Somerton). Critiques are definitely out there.

[@blinkingbat7447]

Forreal. My best friend during my teenage years was very vocal about wanting a gay bestie, it sounded more like she considered them some kind of pet. No lesbians tho, they were creepy apparently

[@sondpnichqfvd]

@@ambiguoussarcasmonline definitely, but i think it’s something a lot of people irl are unaware of actually. like i don’t think if someone were to poll my middle-aged coworkers on whether or not they were aware of a notable subculture of young women who fetishize gay male sexuality that they’d answer in the affirmative (probably also for the misogynistic lack of knowledge or understanding in the general public of women’s sexuality tbh) like as an adult gay man idk anyone who knows what a fujoshi is outside of twitter/tumblr and i assumed that was what op meant

[@anouklichtenberg6885]

I get what you're saying, and that was definitely part of it. However, it has since become clear that a large part of the female fanbase has turned out to be on the queer spectrum. A ship that was also immensely popular at the time was Johnlock, whose fandom largely overlapped with Dan and Phil's. Countless theories were written by queer people, and when the Johnlock ship didn't end up becoming canon there were discussions about queerbaiting for years. What i'm trying to say is that those shippers also included many people who likely recognised parts of themselves in Dan and Phil. There was also a huge lack of queer representation back then, and i think the fandom would have loved for Dan and Phil to have been a part of that. Doesn't excuse the explicit fanfiction though, that was not okay.

[@AamuAurora]

*young fans. You're perceptive to teen girls and their preferences but it's not a "female" thing. I'm a TT moderator, it's my job. I see who posts what, and believe me, guys do the same. It's just difficult to know everything that is going on online because it's an endless space. We're unable to know every creator who's being objectified due to the content bubble and the algorithm. The guys talked about in this video had a predominantly girl audience, but then there are thousands of other creators whose young boy fans obsess over, watch created by other fans "girlfriend experience with XYZ" videos, etc. It's a personality thing which my profession made me understand better. AND, do we really need to talk about gay women being objectified by guys? There are different types of such behavior but it further proves that toxic behavior is just a human thing.

[@babushkacat43]

The “video we shall not name” was super personal and it’s so sad that it still gets brought up and spread around, I’m glad Dan and Phil seem a lot better nowadays but if that were me and someone I cared a lot about I wouldn’t forgive the internet so easily.

[@cynthiaperez7205]

I thought I was a fan but didn’t know how deep this iceberg went. I knew they were heavily shipped together. I didn’t know people were so obsessed. The extent people were prying and over analyzing both of their internet footprints is terrifying.

[@chloe441]

As a Dan and Phil fan since 2010, who avoided the "phandom" like the plague this is so interesting and sad. Despite being on Tumblr, I never followed the shipping and fan fics. I knew it was bad, but I never knew it was this bad. I'm glad that this is mostly in the past, and that they seem happier now. God knows how they dealt with it all.

[@kendall3105]

the way that I remember 90% of this makes me seriously worry for my past self.... that was such a fever dream, I feel so bad that the "phandom" treated them so disrespectfully

[@sarahs795]

No literally because when we hit the 5th tier I was like why do I still know what they’re referring to I didn’t know I was this deep😭. I was never a big poster, just mainly a lurker but like Jesus💀

[@fentymoonlightz]

@@sarahs795no same I was never rlly into the tumblr side of the phandom, I was mostly on insta and twitter and I think there needs to be another couple tiers cause that fandom was crazy.

[@rebeccawilliams139]

@@sarahs795 hit tier 3 and was like yeah this is probably the deepest level i remember... and then I continued to remember. I was so fucked up back then, I never made any of the weird content but I definitely consumed it and I think I justified it because of that. It never felt real, I didn't have a developed enough brain to realise that they are real people, like I knew they were real but they never felt real. Now I look back and I'm like damn, they had literally millions of stalkers, that must have been terrifying.

[@mckayla1609]

i'm trusting you to make a nuanced video about the phandom can't wait

[@mckayla1609]

delivered as always! really enjoyed your inclusion of the more fun parts of the phandom because it definitely wasn't all horrible. the fanfiction argument is interesting to me because to me they always seemed to play into it, even publishing their own in their book. i definitely think the speculation made them a lot more uncomfortable than fanfiction (except maybe smutty ones)

[@nicematerial]

I watched this is 2500X speed and it's great, gonna watch it in 1X to really savor it.

[@uncleherman]

You legend

[@lammilyirl]

the fact that the two apartment theory was real is SOOOO insane

[@heartz4juni]

dan apologising to a stranger online for disclosing that he wasn't in a relationship after said person ASKED him is so sad.

[@soggytoe8215]

Uncle Herman without the voice filter?? What an alpha

[@SKnope]

Right

[@bibidiboop5697]

There is clearly still a filter on

[@evda4919]

Literally what I was thinking what happened I’m confused 😂

[@RenHeng_canon]

@@evda4919Ok so this is my first and only video of them (im not planning on checking out this channel lol, just stumbled upon it by accident) so.. sorry for asking this: Are they a man or a woman? Cuz i hear the voice as female but the comments confused me

[@evda4919]

@@RenHeng_canon further back the voice is deep and their saying is I am an alpha male

[@valenfr01]

the phandom was a molotov cocktail of female fetishisation of gay men, fan entitlement of youtubers personal lives and general tumblr culture hell. god i am so embarrassed of my phandom teen years, i was never a demon phannie, (proud to say i never saw one floor plan) but i definitely watched those heart eyes howell compilations. i remember liking catrific and being in the trenches because people would attack her for just existing near dan and phil. i am glad they seem as put together as they are and are more comfortable with themselves but god, the internet was the wild west.

[@vaylri3535]

i am a changed man now lol, and i was never really that into tumblr, but i used to read phanfic like drinking water when i was younger, not even necessarily smutty ones, cause i was young, but this (16:14) is so true, i couldnt even begin to count the amount of fics that gave dan abusive parents and made phils nice and chill based off of the tiny amount of info people had. also so many were dan being suicidal and phil 'saving' him, if i were these guys, and saw shit like that, i wouldve quit years ago lol. im glad theyre still making vids together and that most of the people who consume their content are being rational about stuff these days.

[@salmorehoe]

I was a fan of them as a teen and was in Tumblr and cannot lie, it was hilarous when in 2022 and saw on Twitter that the appartment conspiracy was true all along

[@eg4441]

i just found out from this vid, as someone who was a brief, mostly casual fan. right before she said it i was like "they live in london, that sounds way too expensive" LOL. wrong. smart of them to do, though

[@lunazwolf]

Phandom was such a huge part of my life until suddenly it wasn't, I feel old seeing these retrospectives 😂

[@soha643]

don’t forget how shane dawson was always trying to out them and make weird comments about them

[@chamomilegub3622]

Oh yes that was so weird!! And the twins… so so gross

[@alexandraRatliff]

As someone who wasn’t contributing to the tumblr content but was definitely on tumblr as a dan and phil fan and seeing all of this at the time, and someone who went to their live performances including Dan’s solo “we’re all doomed” show It’s crazy to think that after this very well put together 40 minute video there’s still so much more that wasn’t talked about. I feel so bad for how Dan and phil were dehumanized by their fans. They seem to have forgiven their fans which is incredible to me and they’re back making videos and seem happier than ever. Lots of laughter and smiles so I’m hoping they will enjoy their return to KZbin now that their fans have grown up and are more respectful

[@PintoPerico]

I was never into them but I could never escape any information I learned about their fandom

[@allthelovealice]

I became a ‘phan’ as an impressionable young teen and I have to admit I shipped them. I wasn’t vocal about it, but I definitely indulged in the tumblr bubble. It was only later that I realised how messed up that was, and how little I cared about it anymore. I still watch them, but I am a lot less emotionally involved now. Young me would have had a stroke seeing them move in to a house together. Your video was amazing and really made me reflect more!

[@joana-eh8qx]

as a person who used to be in the “phandom” who is now in their twenties, this was such a hard watch lmfao… the level of obsession was so insane and i genuinely feel so sorry for them for having to go through that

[@melanie33211]

Phil was my first ever KZbinr, so obviously I found Dan after him. I’m Dans age 31, I’ve been to every show (including Dans) I’d buy their merch and everything. I knew that the Phandom was bad, but holy hell?! I had no idea it was THAT bad?!? I always felt I was too old to be going around calling myself a “Phan”, and it was just cringy asf to me. To see what they went through, no wonder they took so many hiatus’s?! I’m happy I never went down the “phandom” rabbit hole!

[@vyou1]

hi!! im so interested in what it was like to watch phil in the earlier days. what was the community like?

[@melanie33211]

@@vyou1 honestly I really have to think on this! When it comes to the early “phandom”. Just a bunch of young girls “simping” really! Phil was more “manly” to me back in the day (he was obviously covering his true persona)..he did an almost complete 360 personality wise, around the time they moved in with each other. Phil has always been goofy, and made random weird videos, but he became the “lovable goofy Phil who doesn’t cuss etc” when Dan started coming around, and just kept playing into it more and more as they got more “famous” . This is just my opinion on him and how things used to be back when they first became KZbinrs. Dan was way more shy in the beginning than Phil if you can believe it! He ended up coming out of his shell too when they moved in together! I remember when Dan was in college, and Phil was living at his parents still. Once they moved in together is when their true personalities shined! And the “Phandom” word started being thrown around. Like I said I wasn’t into their “fans” I just liked Dan & Phil! Being the same age as Dan, it felt weird to me to be talking to a bunch of 12-14 year olds about them. I kept in my own lane and watched from afar! Every event I went to besides their first show, (my sister in law came with me and we even met Phil’s brother and got pictures with him!) The rest I went by myself, and was always the oldest person around! But yeah once I found Phil and found out about “KZbinrs” that’s when I found Jenna Marbles, and all the other OJ KZbinrs! I wanted to become a KZbinr back in 2013, got a camera and everything but it was an odd time in the “KZbin” world. There were the British KZbinrs & American KZbinrs. To be frank (not Dan and Phil) but the British KZbin community was very smug, and when they were asked how to become a KZbinr they all would say “You had to have started a channel before 2010” or “Be a good looking emo dude” Also women were very rarely as popular as the male KZbin community. Little did they know how big KZbin was going to become with VINE, and TikTok! If you really want to learn how it was back in the beginning, there is a “documentary” called “Becoming KZbin” by Benjamin Cook (Ninebrassmonkeys) It definitely didn’t age well. The British KZbin community were very “smug” in it. The whole concept of the documentary is how to become a “KZbinr” yet you’ll see that most of them didn’t think you could become famous unless you started back in 2009-2010 or was a male. Boy were they wrong! (Dan and Phil have talked about how they weren’t really friends with the British KZbin community and how they got thrown into it) they definitely didn’t act smug! But yeah that documentary should show you how it really was back in the beginning!

[@vyou1]

@@melanie33211 omg thank u so much for such an elaborate answer!! the early dnp era interests me so much so i love hearing what people remember....thank u truly!! i'll definitely have to rewatch the ben cook documentary bc its been a while

[@potatocasseroli]

something i think about a lot is how us phandom folk really didn’t make it a welcoming and comfortable space for dan and phil at times, and i feel almost undeserving of them coming back after how we treated them. not hateful or aggressive towards them, but disrespecting any and all boundaries and over analyzing them. i am thankful that we grew from that and realized how harmful our behavior was, but i am just baffled that throughout everything they went thru, they decided to come back. and i promised myself that if they ever did come back that i’d try to be a healthier fan towards them.

[@alwaysprocrastinating355]

On a different note I have been LOVING their new videos on the gaming channel and their ability to be far more comfortable with themselves and their audience! I hope we can remember the phandom era as a fucked up hyperinvasive period where we were all between the ages of 12 and 15 not understanding boundaries and the consequences of our psychotic behavior (I say "our" though I wasn't actually making these insane theories but I was consuming the ship content which was just as bad) and use it as a reminder for how not to interact with internet celebrities (or anyone sharing parts of their lives on the internet). As Dan himself said we can recognize that we all form parasocial relationships, usually unintentionally, but we should we self aware and recognize how to center ourselves back to reality. It's sad that it had to happen this way but it's also great how for most people, there has been growth since this era, and I'm hoping that the Dan and Phil of the present and future can be the space on the internet that their younger selves had hoped it would one day be.

[@cookedasparagus]

oh man as a retired tumblr phandom user i feel so bad for them

[@MollyKillers]

Bringing up Phil’s wife threw me back in time and I remember that whole week when that went down… Jesus I have PTSD Phan traumatic stress disorder 😂😅

[@momomomo__]

the one thing in that tier that was genuinelly hilarious, mostly because it was obviously self aware and dnp were both in on the joke. i remenber reading it for the first time when it was first posted and it had me in tears. if there's one thing i will forever love about tumblr is our commitment to the bit. it reminds me of the more recent goncharov or the sonic for real justice blog someone made in 2015. the phandom was (and still is) full of actually really funny and creative people, it's a shame we decided to express it the way we did back then.

[@MollyKillers]

Gosh this gave me war flashbacks! Lol Being in the phandom back then was wild. Being a fan now is a totally different experience and if anyone starts pulling stuff like they did back them most of the fans start attacking them to stop it which is really nice. Most of the fans were teens back then now we’re 20 and know better… I just feel so bad for those two. They put up with so much shit.

[@gabrielking5814]

Sincerely, thank you for making this video in a way that was honest yet respectful of their privacy considering the subject matter being covered. I was a passive watcher on KZbin from about 2012-2016, I was more a fan of Dan than Phil but did like the idea of them together considering how happy it seemed to make Dan to just be around Phil. I wasn’t active in the KZbin comments and didn’t have a Phan blog, but I witnessed some amount of early phandom behavior when I was on Tumblr in my early watching days. It scared me away from interacting with Phandom content, as I could kind of feel the invasive edge even with my 13 year old developing social conscience. I think that because I was quite uncertain on whether I wanted to be a part of a fandom in the first place it kept me on the nonvocal viewer side. I am just so glad that they are making videos again, all things considered. I feel very lucky

[@Iexapro]

although i was actively watching their channels at the time I somehow avoided this dumpster fire so coming back to see these retrospectives is really interesting. boundaries and having healthy relationships with content creation/creators is so important in the social media age when privacy is basically nonexistent

[@EvereveEverything]

I was apart of the phantom but I was always someone calling out others for insisting on their relationship or sexuality. Sure I had a bit of a crush on Dan but also I just felt like it was super icky that people were trying to get them to confess to something they clearly wanted to keep private, or worse they were trying to reveal something that wasn’t theirs to reveal. I genuinely liked both Dan and Phil’s content and they have great comedic chemistry together too. They’re also like KZbin pioneers and have created a lot of trends behind the scenes. I’m glad they still want to make content together now even after all the insanity. I still love their stuff!

[@snailcorn7480]

you can tell the hbomberguy effect from just how long that description of sources is lol

[@givebackmybreadsticks]

ew hes an sa apologist

[@gnocchi5326]

It is sad I could think of a full tier even lower than what was described in the video, but I am glad it stopped where it did since it still captures how weird the whole thing was.

[@pomegranate9515]

I started watching Dan and Phil when I was about 13, in 2010/2011. I lost interest not long after that as I grew up and developed other interests, but I remember seeing everything on Tumblr during these days and it was genuinely weird, and looking back on it I'm glad they've spoken up about how uncomfortable it made them. I remember at one point people started harassing Dan's little brother with questions about him. It's interesting to see how accessible social media stars used to seem compared to now - while people are critical of weird parasocial relationships now, there seems to be a lot more separation than there was at this time, and it makes me sad they suffered so much weird harassment, even if it meant they got propelled to fame and fortune. These were just two normal guys trying to live their lives whose privacy was invaded to the point I'm surprised they didn't quit earlier. It's interesting to think how filtered and seperated influencers are from fans now, with PR companies in the mix and everything carefully scripted to allow for more respect and freedom in their real lives vs. their online personas. While I think Dan and Phil really only could've achieved their level of status back then because of their realness and how unfiltered and new things were, I do think they would've bee a lot more protected and able to suffer less now, in an era where KZbin stardom is more normalised. Cool video, thank you for touching on this. Took me back to my teenage days haha

[@emmiebunny04]

When i watched Dans coming out video, i went downstairs to the kitchen were my mum was. I ended up crying and hugging her because she made me feel safe in a world where countless queer people don't. Dans video made me feel so many emotions, and thats what a relationship between a celebrity and a fan should be. They shouldnt have a parasocial friendship. They should make us think about ourselves.

[@joop_moonchild]

I was always a casual viewer. Probably because I'm gen x and maybe I'm not very observant. I'd been watching Dan for a while, around 9 yrs ago, then I started watching Phil, because that's how the recommended section worked. At the time, I just thought they lived near each other and popped in to make videos. It was 2 yrs before I saw one of them mention they lived together and my first thought was "that makes sense, London is bloody expensive." I will say, I think they're awesome, they've made so many people happy and I wish for only good things and happiness for them. Peace ✌️

[@danisnotonfireiswear1346]

I’ll admit I read a few Phan-fics but I was NEVER so deep in the fandom that I harassed them. The fandom being the way it was is what caused Dan to leave the internet for years. Literally the only “glimpse” of Dan we got was a hand or his voice in the background of some of Phil’s videos. The fandom drove Dan’s mental health into the shitter and I truly hope it never gets that bad again

[@grampsandi]

When you said "they met when Dan was 19 and Phil was 22," I cringed because I'm now older than Dan would've been, and I was around 14ish when I watched Dan and Phil. That's so weird to conceptualize.

[@vyou1]

dan was 18 when they met lol. but yeah

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

Before I even watch this, I want to say that I had a friend who was a little too obsessive with Dan and Phil to the point that she would ship them on tumblr and wouldn’t stop saying how much she knows they’re gay and they should just come out. She was one of those really obsessive people who ship real people and go overboard with online communities. Shocker, she also watched Supernatural.

[@9cloudrachel207]

“Friend”

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

@@9cloudrachel207haha ya, we’re not friends anymore because of some wild other stuff but seeing the notification for this video brought back war flashbacks 😂

[@jewsaregenocidalhores]

There’s a lot of “fandoms” aka schizos like that out here. We won’t mention the barbs but they are the ones that made me realise I refuse to idealise a celebrity like that. I really loved Nicki then noticed she uses her fandom as a way to push narratives and they literally just do anything she says and art am anybody and their kids to do so. Disgusting.

[@jewsaregenocidalhores]

They come at anybody*

[@arachniidsGriip]

@@jewsaregenocidalhores lets not call people "schizos" for behaviour like this. schizophrenia is a disorder that has nothing to do with this behaviour.

[@madison3514]

I was a part of the “phandom” and I’m honestly embarrassed by it. That time is truly like a fever dream like I’ve seen a lot of comments mention I can’t believe so many people were so disrespectful to their personal lives and boundaries. A friend and I went to see Dan when he did his solo tour, and it was produced so well, and he genuinely seemed a lot happier and more comfortable with himself. I hope those two men have the best lives possible from here on out, and never have to worry about anything else again.

[@chamomilegub3622]

I remember watching “the video” back in 2018 when I was one of those shippers, and even then it never sat right with me. I never saw it as “definitive proof”… I just felt like I was seeing something that I was never meant to see and I felt horrible about it. I didn’t understand how other “phannies” could watch it and not feel an ounce of guilt. After it, I quickly stopped shipping them after I realised how fucking weird it was. I’m thankful that phase of my life only lasted a year, but the fact that the shipping culture surrounding Dan and Phil has done so much damage to them is something I’ll forever feel terrible about. As someone said, for many of us this may have just been a weird period of our lives, but for them it was their reality.

[@jessblackproductions]

I remember finding *the video* BY ACCIDENT around 2015. I was working on something and decided to binge lessamazingphil videos as background noise. It must have been one of those times when the video was public. I was in shock. I didn't personally ship them, and it felt like I was watching something that wasn't supposed to be public. It didn't seem real to me. I went back to find it to see if I had imagined it, it wasn't there. I found it again a couple of years later on Tumblr. I was just happy I hadn't imagined it, but it still felt wrong. What a time... I really feel bad for them.

[@endymionredacted1304]

I remember only being allowed KZbin and Pinterest in my first year of high-school and being a big fan of Dan and Phil through their sims videos. One of the other girls at school found out I watched them and immediately started showing me her ship art, explicit fanfic and asking me who I thought was top and bottom. It creeped me out, and I stayed friends with her and enjoyed the fandom aside from that, but it was so strange that you couldn't even avoid it offline.

[@jessica23claire]

I was never super into Dan and Phil Games back in the day, but I've been really enjoying the new era of Dan and Phil Games where they're allowed to be themselves, and even make fun of the Phan mania (like the recurring "they touched!!!" gag during the PINOF reaction videos).

[@dianah218]

This was such a good video/documentary style about phan, it feels like a fever dream and you did bring back some BURIED memories

[@usedtobemyself]

The way I was an avid Tumblr user and also watched Dan&Phil regularly yet never had those two worlds cross. I'm learning some new things this many years after.

[@obish4476]

i had one of first blogs that popped up when you looked up “phan” or “phandom” - maybe we interacted! this video was a blast to the past; i wish i could say i didn’t participate in the shipping, but i did. less speculation but familiar with the deepest part of this iceberg, if not deeper lol i’m glad they seem like they are in a happier place, and i admire their patience towards the fandom. they did a good job calling out the problematic behavior while also offering a lot of grace we didn’t deserve. they are still my comfort content :) great video!

[@BelleFlower15]

I'm grateful for my experience as a fan of theirs. Started watching in 2016, when I was still under the influence of my Baptist upbringing. I remember being very relieved that they "weren't gay." The following years saw a radical transformation in my life as I deconstructed and moved away from the ideologies I'd been taught. Dan's coming out video was the thing that fully broke me out of homophobia for good. Always grateful to these men and their perseverance. ❤️

[@tikifiki]

i knew a phd student who did her DISSERTATION on this!

[@vyou1]

woah. is it avaliable to read?

[@OfTheSeaKND]

I’ve never heard of them, but this is fascinating. I DEEPLY cringe when I remember how I used to read the wildest pop punk band fanfics in the early to mid 2000’s. 😅

[@viquitowers2815]

saaaame, let's just say I've read some.... questionable things in my wattpad era 💀💀

[@silverxstar01]

Wow. This really did bring back memories that had been pushed into the dusty back corner of my brain. For a brief period in late 2013, my whole world revolved around these guys. I remember tuning into the YouNow streams and having a completely baseless hatred for Catrific. To this day my phone's passcode is 2022 because that was speculated to be the year of their wedding and I just haven't changed it since, LOL. I won't pretend like I'm not still slightly curious as to whether they were ever together, but ultimately it's nobody's business but theirs. Whatever the nature of their relationship may be, it's clear that they have something special, and that's beautiful no matter the circumstances.

[@gazpod2223]

I have some random Phil lore that feels like a fever dream because when I go to look it up I see nothing anywhere online. There was an Onision interactive online dating video that Phil was in. Does anyone else remember him collabing with onion boy. I just find it crazy because that was my introduction to Phil and then Dan of course.

[@astroblast2325]

Omg i remember the interactive dating thing! I don't remember it including Onision, but one with maybe BriBry (Irish songwriter that it seems NO ONE remembers?? And a lot of his stuff has been deleted as well?) and many other KZbinrs in that sphere.

[@gazpod2223]

@@astroblast2325 yes I remember bribry I had his cut cake not wrists bracelets!! I am for sure positive that the onion collab was on the onion channel and he was playing his Rod Danger character and it had other KZbinrs in it like Brittani Louise Taylor I think. Each KZbinr played a character and Phil’s was a bit creepy and awkward and attracted to his wooden guinea pig

[@sheriffcherub]

you NEED to do the super(wholock)natural fandom, it scares me to this day...

[@hollyTM]

a big thing too that was happened towards the interactive introverts era that wasn't included in this video essay was the obsession the phandom had with the microceleb accounts that would make dan and phil based content. people weren't just invested in the private lives of dan and phil but invested in the lives of these accounts solely because they made content associated with dan and phil. a big one was an account called lem who faked a pregnancy announcement at a dan & phil meet and greet and even faked having a child and naming it after the two creators just to gain attention. the account laniefalls who was her former friend even made a whole video about it but it's insane to me incidences like that occurred.

[@brookethebookquintana]

This brought back memories that I don’t think could’ve been waterboarded out of me

[@helixbomb]

LITERALLY NAUSEOUS BEING REMINDED OF THIS I CANT IMAGINE BEING PHIL AT THE TIME UGHHHHGHHHH 32:25

[@viddysgamingviddyos4710]

I started to enjoy Dan and Phil's content in my 20s [I'm about Phil's age, so I'll let you do the math]. I went to one of their stage shows in Australia, and while I did feel a little out of place as a somewhat older guy surrounded by the general Phan-girls and the cat nose and whiskers thing, they were actually very nice to me and we enjoyed laughing at the running gags such as Dan's existential crisis, their Sims journey etc. But I rarely had any idea the Phandom went this deep and possibly even just plain weird! I do not go with shipping real-life people [only fictional characters] and even then, I like friendships more than romance, how about that!

[@hooddaddy7124]

yep. I was one of the creeps out there shipping these two men and i do regret it and i do feel bad and embarrassed about it to this day. I was so deep into it i STILL have that video we aren't suppose to have... i totally forgot i had it until you brought it up and sure enough i check my "Phan" file on my old laptop and its still there. Im going to delete it. My own way of saying good bye to the fever dream and obsession i had over these two for no other reason than i was a hormonal dumb shit who really liked romance animes and fanfics and yaoi and was gay myself but couldn't come out to my family just yet. I was using them, and im ashamed of myself for being like that, as we all should if you were also being crazy like i was back then. My own friend group at that time was also huge on Phan and so really i surrounded myself is that toxic community making it my own personality in a way back then. I was an idiot. I am deeply sorry Dan, and deeply sorry Phil. I wish them both well

[@graciemay5055]

hey man try not to beat yourself up ab it too much. you were young and cringe just like everybody was when they were young. be proud you're now a better person with a greater understanding for boundaries. if you haven't seen, their gaming channel is back and they reacted to some of their old videos! a big part of their new brand is embracing the weird, cringey children they once were.

[@KitKat_293]

as true as it is that shipping real people is unhealthy and invasive for everyone involved, the problems with it are still very abstract concepts that are hard for youngsters to possibly understand. try not to take any shame to heart too much. that kind of thing is a fairly common and understandable way that teens and kids special interests passions and crushes manifest. sure it's not to be encouraged and must be acknowledged as a mistake to quit out of, but it's a very human mistake! young developing minds playing pretend with celebrities as if they are fictional characters is a very human thing to do in my mind. not advisable, but human. you're good man don't worry

[@obish4476]

you were a child. doesn’t make it okay, but you were a child. sounds like you know better now and i think that is enough

[@Maybe.morgan]

Now that im thinking about it.. i think i found Phil way before dan. Im pretty sure he had a series of videos called "phils interactive space adventure" back in like 08 i think?? Wow im getting old

[@vyou1]

yes he did!!! thats so cool that u started watching so early :D ive always wondered what it was like to be an og viewer

[@psychogrungebabe]

I remember the apartment theory and when they dropped that bombshell my mind was blown

[@MoonlightBun]

I was and still am a fan of Dan and Phil, it’s crazy because I remember everything from each tier and more tbh. I was a Phan shipper but not to the analyzing everything about their personal lives degree. But to the degree of enjoying fanfics and gushing over cute fmvs of them. When I was younger I felt a real sense of being a part of something special as a fan of Dan and Phil. I never interacted much with the rest of the fandom, just Dan and Phil’s videos and content directly. On Tumblr I mostly lurked on Dan and Phil content since I had a Kpop blog, but I do remember the "popular phandom bloggers" and a lot of the discourse there. 
 Now, I feel like Dan and Phil have very familiar auras. To me personally, I feel like I am catching up on a friend when they upload content. It is wild to see this stuff again because yeah that really was the phandom during that time. It was crazy then but looking back from a newer level of maturity and life, those two went through so much because of all the Phan mess.

[@zachszeszol3666]

The sharing clothes bit is wild as that is just something that friends do

[@dalayneejo]

the way i legit had to pause the video and scream for a minute when you mentioned the hamster…. FOUL

[@terezija2909]

this video felt like a wild rollercoaster. i recently started watching the two and as i am a new fan i got used to their now 'no filter' personalities. i really adore the both of them and have never really cared enough to do a big deep dive of the past, even thought i watched dan vs. phil and some cooking videos. but damn did this shock me! i am so surprised and proud that thes even got the courage to come back to youtube, and that the two still have the passion to record the videos. but i am so right they came back! because to me, they are a breath of fresh air, their content is so enjoyable and fun - they have some aspects alot of youtubers miss / lack in. thank you for this.

[@lobsterlad7]

getting back into dan and phil in my 20s has truly been eye-opening. when i first got into them in 2013/2014, i exclusively watched videos that dan and phil themselves had uploaded and i never delved into the actual fan community. i got back into dan and phil in my 20s after watching their coming out videos (i can't believe all 3 of us turned out to be queer), and that's when i started learning about what was going on in the fanbase throughout that dan and phil 2010s golden era. it completely blew me away that i was such a big fan back in the day but had no idea about what was going on within the community.

[@slaaaph]

Back in the day I had a phandom tumblr with like 10k+ followers and although I didn't ship phan and was always against lurking into their private lives, I still knew the whole lore. Like you just couldn't escape it back then, it was spreading like a wildfire - I was never posting phan theories/shipping stuff, my tumblr got popular because I was an active gifs and memes creator and although I kept repeating that I do not wish to interfere in their private lives, somehow I was receiving all phan "proves" including a copy of a video you mentioned in tier five. I have never experienced such a phenomenon in my entire life again, you literally had to be there back then.

[@ilyasmustdie]

i literally started watching them this year (yeah i know in 2024 is CRAZY work) though i used to hear of their name so often but boy am i glad i didn't interact with any of their videos or the phandom because what the hell was going on in tumblr man this video made me so mad yet sad. the whole world owes them an apology honestly they did NOT deserve all of those horrible stuff that has been done and said to them. i'm so happy that they are visibly happier and more comfortable around each other now.

[@rowansmith4983]

Who remembers “Don’t cry, craft”

[@LeleLikesSnails]

Have been a fan of d&p since their very early days and I was a young teenager at that time. I can’t lie, I did ship them but more to myself (never openly on social media) thinking that it’d be cute if they were together bc they just vibe so well. However their private life is none of the fans business and I feel like they’re doing a great job at maintaining it that way, good for them. I’m so glad they’re back tho, I didn’t know I missed them that much

[@serenamorris1324]

As someone who watched Dan and Phil regularly for years but never was on Tumblr it’s always so jarring seeing how many fans participated in the batshit insanity that is the Phandom

[@aggiemoon3208]

For real because in their videos they talked about tumblr but I never understood the gravity.

[@Plasticplas1]

You can't start the autopsy until its dead

[@vyou1]

retweet

[@graciemay5055]

I was a fan of them, but even at 11 i was disturbed by how eccentric their fans were. i loved them, i thought they were funny and they had the biffle kind of chemistry i wanted for myself. but i am lucky to say it never got to an obsessive point. the speculation was really too much. i came across that video a few times but never watched it and never will. i suppose it's natural to be curious but it was ridiculous people claimed to adore them but could not respect a simple and totally reasonable request they had. and at 11 we had no business challenging each other with them infamous fics (hat fic, skin fic). it's become a meme in their community now, but in hindsight those were genuinely horrifying. some "fans" hadn't developed their moral compass yet. i'm 18 in may now and i'm still a fan. when they announced they were making joint content together again after so long, tears actually fell lmaooo. it's definitely the best era of phan content we've ever had, considering now there are boundaries, the fans are mostly grown up, and they seem much more authentic and happier after the break. while some of the fans back then were atrocious, i was more annoyed by people who called dnp queerbaiters before they came out. that's problematic for so many reasons.

[@morgana6435]

Thank you for making this video essay, because I really don't think the issue of shipping real people together is talked about as much as it should be. When i was in hs there was this "friend" i had who thought it would be cute if i dated this creepy guy i was kinda forced to hang out with due to circumstances, and that was extremely uncomfortable for me, in a way i wasn't able to explain as a teen, so i cannot even IMAGINE what it would be like to be in my early twenties and literal MILLIONS of crazed people shipping me with a friend! I'm so glad Dan and Phil are back in the gaming channel as I'm a huge fan of it, but DEAR GOD i hope people are ashamed and regretful of how they treated two real life people, don't care if i sound too harsh. Also, I'm a huge fan of AO3, love how there are no real boundaries in what you can write, IF fictional. I really do not like fanfics about real people. If you really wanna write those? DON'T POST THEM, KEEP YOUR KINKS TO YOURSELF

[@aggiemoon3208]

I’m so glad at 12 I only got to tier two in seeing Phan content. At 20 I’m horrified by the depths I never saw.

[@MilieNopeNotHere]

Im forever confused about why people say phan was never confirmed though? I was never in the "phandom" and was just a casual fan, but I watched Dan's coming out video intently (i am also queer) and he literally says in tha video that him and Phil were "obviously more than friends", more than platonic, he calls Phil his soulmate? They might not have explicitly said whether they are currently together, but saying "we were obviously more than friends" I feel like is pretty unambiguous? And this is not me trying to pry into their personal lives or whatever, again I literally am just a casual fan, but Dan literally did confirm it. And the fact that they came out at the same time too. Im just very confused about why so many fans now seel to have gone all the way to the complete opposite side of before. Going from "they shook hands so they must be gay" to "he said they were non-platonic soulmates, it could mean anything " 😅 Can someone in the phandom explain to me?

[@vyou1]

well its pretty much a given that theyre probably together just based on....everything theyve said/done over the past 5 years. but since theyve never explicitly said anything, and because they abhor speculation, most people use ambiguous language just out of respect

[@ipurpleu1668]

@@vyou1 Dan has said they are a couple in a magazine interview this year. So I think it's fine to just be honest about it. No need to be weird and start speculating again, but denying it is strange to me.

[@raspberrytaegi]

@@ipurpleu1668 really? which magazine? i somewhat doubt that, that’s why i’m asking

[@ipurpleu1668]

@@raspberrytaegi in the DNA magazine during his tour. He went on a long metaphorical explanation of their relationship, the interviewer asked “then just a normal gay couple then?”, and Dan said “basically, yeah.” They live in their “forever home”, have mentioned their shared bedroom casually and are fine showing it on Instagram stories and stuff, talk about relationship-related things casually. They aren’t hiding it anymore, they just don’t make their content focused on it

[@momomomo__]

i've been watching them since 2012/2013, when i was around 12. i love to see people talking about this in such a nuanced and comprehensive way. and putting it like this really shows how unhinged we were. i never took part in the worst of it, but as a tumblr user, i always saw it happen and i did ship them at the time, just more silently. i feel like a huge enabler. i was a queer neurodivergent kid with no friends who was getting bullied pretty badly at school, so they were a huge part of my childhood and got me through a lot of tough times. as much fondness as i have for the phandom, after their hiatus, and being older now, i realise how seriously fucked up what we did was. it was a safe space for us but not for them... and because i was pretty much in the same place as dan with my sexuality, and was actually outed by one of my frinds in high school, i'm seriously so ashamed. i can't imagine going through the speculation, the rumours and the fear on such a big scale. not just that, it was literally everywhere, we were menaces. i can still watch phil's old videos, but watching dan's actually hurts and makes me uncomfortable. he was so obviously struggling and a lot of his branding and videos were just symptoms of his poor mental health. the videos about law school are particularly hard to watch. knowing we contributed to that makes me so upset, and i'm surprised they don't resent us. i think we all realise a lot of phans were kids going through a tough time and we wanted what dnp have so badly, so we projected onto them a lot. it wasn't okay, but i see that we've all matured a lot and realised that. i'm glad we can all call out that behaviour and hopefully dnp know how much we regret the harm we did. i see newer phans get annoyed at us older phans for policing their shipping and speculating as much as we do, but seeing how much what we did harmed them, we can't let it happen again and we owe that to them.

[@PopcornEmma]

lmao shoutout to the phan songs, they were genuinely so good

[@tealeweaves]

Man I was absolutely obsessed with them for probably a good 6 years but I forgot how insane so much of the phandom was, I need to do a deep dive back into my old dan and phil tumblr now (I honestly think it’s hilarious that the apartment did actually turn out to be a set though)