Batteries and Supercapacitors

[@UndecidedMF]

Please note: before commenting that I reversed the negative and positive/anode and cathode ... all citations are available in my script linked in the description. On that specific point, "Lithium-ion uses a cathode (positive electrode), an anode (negative electrode) and electrolyte as conductor. (The anode of a discharging battery is negative and the cathode positive" batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lithium_based_batteries Here's why some think it's the other way (because it depends on the type of battery): chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/16785/positive-or-negative-anode-cathode-in-electrolytic-galvanic-cell And a correction: I reversed the side dendrites grow from in the battery. I should have stated the anode, not the cathode.

[@Mark-uj4qj]

Also at the 1:00 minute mark of the video you referred the cathode as the positive side while the anode the negative. Isn't it just the opposite?

[@UndecidedMF]

Nope, that’s correct. “Lithium-ion uses a cathode (positive electrode), an anode (negative electrode) and electrolyte as conductor. (The anode of a discharging battery is negative and the cathode positive. The cathode is metal oxide and the anode consists of porous carbon. During discharge, the ions flow from the anode to the cathode through the electrolyte and separator; charge reverses the direction and the ions flow from the cathode to the anode.” batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lithium_based_batteries Also here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/power/2-how-do-batteries-work.html

[@skydivekrazy76]

And you should not bit have combined the Cobalt mine atrocities in Africa with lithium mining... Which is prevalent around the world and I doubt has very many atrocities attached to it.

[@kstringer24]

And by the way 'stalactate'' is not a word.

[@RoyvanLierop]

Isn't Lithium just scraped off salt-fields in south-America?

[@saintsofsilence10]

Channels like yours are the reason I no longer watch conventional broadcasts :)

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! 🙏

[@christopherlani9156]

Damn Straight!

[@UndecidedMF]

Ha! Thanks. 👍

[@redsquirrel3893]

Same because of how much there is online I think convectional TV is outdated now.

[@TessylOlliipOp]

you are so right even me whatch not much to tv anymore youtube vids very enligthing

[@daveanderson5680]

Super capacitors are already being used TOGETHER with Lithium batteries in what I’d call a symbiotic or complementary system. The weaker properties of a lithium battery is the stronger properties of a super capacitor....and vice versa. Soon...hybrid & electric cars will be charging super capacitors with the regenerative braking....and then discharging the super capacitors during acceleration which will greatly extend the lithium battery’s range

[@ElectricDanielBoone]

It's suprising capacitors weren't used in ev design from the beginning, as they are so common. Start capacitors are used in most single phase a/c motors. My knowledge of them is very limited however.

[@mdjey2]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYKVdqJsrNFoqJI

[@clavo3352]

Dave: You took my thoughts and turned them into a reality before I could speak them! I did this with a D cell battery and a capacitor and a resistor to fire a solenoid to open a trap door to feed cattle in 1979 +/- . What you said makes perfect sense. Plus for emergency safety a small 20 lb. gasoline or Nat gas generator could provide a quick charge. And just wait till we get thermople reactive electric power take off strips down the black top highway! Get to next city with no battery use! Batteries will need only provide 100 mi. range.

[@hyenico]

Sounds like what Mazda has in their Mazda 3 and 6

[@model3man]

Nice comprehensive overview of current and upcoming battery / capacitor technologies. You’re always clear, precise, and well researched. Also, it was great to meet you at the Model Y unveil. I think it’s helpful when fellow KZbinrs are able to get together and see each other face to face. We are not competitors but fellow travelers!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! It was great meeting you too ... and I agree that meeting fellow KZbinrs is a big plus. We're all in this together. Love your channel and the videos you've been releasing about the Model Y event. Great stuff!

[@sorthman]

Dude! Probably your best video to date. Very informative and well-thought out. Keep up the great work!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! Really appreciate it.

[@BillAnt]

Indeed, a very well put together video for the average person to understand the different storage technologies, without too much technical mumbo-jumbo. :) However, I'm a little confused by these two statements about super caps. 5:57 "... they have a huge power density..." 6:35 "... they don't have a good energy density..." What's the difference between a huge power density vs a low energy density? My interpretation is, that they can store and supply a huge amount of power (current) within a very short time, but unable to store large amounts of energy within the same volume as a conventional battery. Am I on the right track? Hope someone could clear it up a bit. :)

[@propelegant]

Another additional problem with supercapacitors is that the voltage drops off proportion to the state of charge so at 50% charge the voltage will be around 50% of full charge, this means an EV would slow down as the voltage drops. A lithium battery, however, maintains a nominal voltage with a small drop to full discharge.

[@UndecidedMF]

Yep, but that's also why a combination of a capacitor with lithium battery pack could be interesting in an EV. You'd get access to quick discharge during acceleration or regen through the capacitor, but the constant voltage through the battery for cruising speeds. I'm guessing that companies like Tesla have explored all of this and there's a good reason we're not seeing it in the current crop of EVs. I know Elon was studying supercapactors in school and how to apply them to electric vehicles.

[@stardusttwo6262]

Are tesla cars fast in accelerating? Yes, do they use super-capacitors? No.

[@UndecidedMF]

Correct, but supercapacitors combined with batteries in an EV could improve battery life and range. It’s believed that Tesla is using capacitors like this in the Roadster coming out next year to hit those crazy acceleration times it has, as well as the massive range. My best guess is that it’s cost holding it back, which is why we’re only hearing about this in cars costing 100’s of thousands of dollars or more.

[@mauroscimone8584]

Undecided with Matt Ferrell exactly, probably they will use Supercapacitors with Li ion battery in their pack to avoid stressing battery during fast acceleration and deceleration , so battery pack can last longer life , like 1 million miles Elon say.

[@matblub]

well, as E= 1/2 * C * U^2, at half the voltage you only have 1/4 of the energy left. So the effect is not too severe as you could just cut off at maybe 1/3 of the maximum voltage and still use about 90% of the energy. But sure, it's more of a thing than with li-ion batteries...

[@michietn5391]

Na may be cheap, but it's dangerous. Mg and Al are nearly as light, and much safer. Plus, Plus, and 3Xplus (valence numbers are higher than Na and Li, meaning one nucleus has 2 or 3 electrons associated). Regarding supercaps, they charge fast, but leak fast. Future power supplies will be hybrids of batteries and caps.

[@acafella58]

Kilowatt Labs' software deals with the "leak fast" problem.

[@michietn5391]

@@acafella58 Software (digital info) cannot help the problem of dielectric material permeability. It's a materials science issue.

[@NikolaosSkordilis]

Maxwell Technologies, apart from dry battery electrode batteries, are also a major manufacturer of supercapacitors. So Tesla has now access to both technologies, maybe as a way to hedge their bets.

[@UndecidedMF]

Could be.

[@jamesspencer3233]

teslas middle man on batteries are sony. it is believed that with the purchase of maxwell they plan to get rid of sony

[@UndecidedMF]

I think you mean Panasonic.

[@BillAnt]

Tesla has purchased Maxwell in order to restart the production of those legendary Maxell audio tapes of the 80's and 90's. JK! They just sound similar. ;D

[@Dogeman92]

It's about time battery technology improved, it's holding back the capabilities of what we can build including phones and cars

[@onehitpick9758]

I know -- it's such an inconvenience to have to plug my octa-core phone into a charger every three days. At least I have quick-charge. I can't wait till it can last for two weeks. It gets better each generation, but incrementally, and sometimes results in explosions and/or counterfeits. Still, I'm glad to see some progression like NiCads are almost completely gone. I got really tired of buying a new cordless drill every year because the batteries ceased to function and a new battery pack was several times more expensive than a new drill with battery technology that had more watt-hours.

[@TessylOlliipOp]

i suspect the petrol industries (rich people) to keep that technology goin out to soon millions of people around the world would loose their jobs in that industie

[@trentallman984]

@@TessylOlliipOp It is energy density that oil has over batteries, 40 times as much.

[@BillAnt]

Well it's pretty difficult to come up with something new which is both more efficient and cost effective compared to what we currently have. I can just imagine the amount of time, effort and money they are pumping into the R&D of new storage technologies, since it would be a gold mine to produce or license something better than the current products.

[@TessylOlliipOp]

@@BillAnt well everything has started as a huge item like the first computers in the 70.s and now look how small they are it's just a matter of time and research

[@pg9112471]

I made a car jump starter from six D size battery type maxwell super capacitors and a Lithium ion battery pack from a cordless drill to charge the caps. I also integrated a charging system for it and a buck booster module to power other 12v devices. All in an in closure 4"x6"x4.5". Works for about 4 seconds of cranking power.

[@UndecidedMF]

That’s pretty cool!

[@gulllars4620]

There is also an intermediate design option to combine Lithium ion batteries with supercapacitors to have the supercapacitors provide burst charge/discharge, and then have the Li-ion batteries carry the bulk of the capacity. That can allow much higher peak inputs/outputs for some seconds and sparing the batteries of that peak load, while still retaining the hours of capacity.

[@stevek6486]

It seems like that could work in reverse as well - quick charge a super cap and then let it slow charge the battery.

[@jimmytaylor1090]

@@stevek6486 I was thinking the same thing ...I have in my head to build a electric boat ..28 to 35 foot ..and I believe it can be done with solar, wind .and a hho generator and these new and improved batteries...just thinking out loud ..

[@mrdune5479]

The cool thing about using supercapacitors in tandem with batteries is you can recharge a capacitor when breaking.

[@jerrybender6633]

Dont forget REGEN-- All the braking energy can be easily re cooped with Caps but not so much with Lions

[@jerrybender6633]

@drop stix Excellent points all of them

[@BadAssBallz]

I wondered about graphene and aerogels for batteries years ago. Thank you for sharing this info. We live in such a great time to figure out technology.

[@rickrys2729]

Skele+on in Estonia is making supercapacitors with graphene. As an interim product they suggest a use in combination with lithium batteries to give a big boost in short term power and more power to regenerative braking. Seems like E-cars have more tech improvements in the queue than IC cars and will further crush the IC's for performance.

[@DOSputin]

Certainly hope your prediction is correct. The combination of LTO (Lithium Titanate) and Ultra-capacitors are being used throughout China in EV Busses. LTO's, like Ultracaps have extraordinary cycle lifespans. I'm trying to get my hands on both of these technologies in quantities great enough to make an experimental EV drivetrain. Wish me luck!

[@rickrys2729]

@@DOSputin It would appear you could purchase an appropriate sized super cap from Skele+on. As you see in their video Skele+on shows an application for heavy trucks/buses, so it is relatively proven for a drivetrain. As for Lithium Titanate I know these are made/sold by Leclanche and relatively expensive but very high performance in terms of charge cycles. I'd think that even if you were able to get these storage products, packaging them with appropriate voltage, charge controls and inverters/motor controls would be a tough project. If you could pull that off you would need to be very determined.

[@RayDrouillard]

I like the way that you make the information available to non technical people without dumbing it down, resorting to hyperbole, or being inaccurate.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks!

[@carterjohnson25]

Tesla is combining super conductor with LI... .. Breaking Regeneration = Massive input to Super Conductor. It can take it. Acceleration = Massive output from the Super conductor. The LI pack then will have significantly less usage and specifically less hard usage of Big power up and down... so more juice to cruise 600+ range. This is why the new roadster exists.. Just like the first roadster, they will pioneer this combo here, then roll it out to the rest hopefully soon enough..

[@Mangoose_ola]

New subscriber here. Great work @Matt. I love how you simplified complex concepts.

[@hermanshim8948]

Have a look at the work Skeleton Tech in Estonia is doing with Graphene Super Caps.

[@UndecidedMF]

I’ve been looking into them! There’s been a few people who’ve been pointing me in their direction ... very, very cool company. I’m planning more videos like this, so will most likely be covering them.

[@57JustFun]

I am looking for some start up companies to buy stock in. I didn't see this company listed. Can you help with that.

[@hermanshim8948]

@@57JustFun Hi Tom my Company is still too small to be listed on our stock exchange. My work continues in research under my own name for now. On Linkedin and Google. One day.

[@57JustFun]

@@hermanshim8948 How far away are you from having a viable supercapacitor that can be integrated with batteries and solar power to run a house? I would consider being a distributer for such a technology :) The way I see it, the Ultracapacitor would be set up to run the house. Solar Generator to charge batteries and the batteries to keep the capacitors charged. Sounds redundant to have both batteries and capacitors, but not really. Capacitors don't have dendrite issues and keeps the recharging of batteries to a minimum.

[@BillAnt]

I'm a little confused by these two statements about super caps. 5:57 "... they have a huge power density..." 6:35 "... they don't have a good energy density..." What's the difference between a huge power density vs a low energy density? My interpretation is, that they can store and supply a huge amount of power (current) within a very short time, but unable to store large amounts of energy within the same volume as a conventional battery. Am I on the right track? Hope someone could clear it up a bit. :) Super caps would probably work best as a quick booster for the motors, and also for regenerative breaking, where the breaking energy which would normally be wasted as heat, could be re-captured and stored quickly and efficiently since it all happens within just a few seconds. Batteries are unable to charge up fast enough during breaking, but super-caps could. A hybrid system may be the way to go, at least until some new and revolutionary and highly efficient energy storage or generating technology is developed. The good news, is that there's an huge amount of reward money waiting on the table for the first company to come up with some new energy storage/generator which would solve the Electric Vehicle problem for the foreseeable future. ;) The hybrid battery technology reminds me of a class of hybrid hard drives some years ago which had both spinning plates and a large NVM buffer. That was a transitional period between "spinners" and "SSD"s, likewise battery technology will probably advance into high capacity super capacitor or similar solid state technologies. As EV's become more popular, there will be a huge demand for high capacity, lighter, and more cost effective battery technologies, and the company which comes out with the best solution will reap the benefits of their hard work.

[@chrisli5215]

I'm with you.

[@BillAnt]

Let's hope "Undecided with Matt Ferrell" would chime in on it. ;)

[@SpokoR3]

I'll just drop the name of MXene here. It's going to replace graphene in the future in terms of performance because it combines high energy density (which graphene alone can't do) with great electrode conductivity. Graphene paved the way for MXene in a way.

[@dennisjutzi7075]

You are providing such complete information for us. Your information is very clear and I precise

[@christopheraldrich665]

You video is VERY WELL and EXCELLENTLY done. You pack a great deal of information into this video and do so in a way the explains it in a way to easily understand and grasp. Again, well done. Looking forward to more ...

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! Really appreciate the kind words.

[@izrael2321]

Your the first person to cover this topic .. I'm hooked

[@TessylOlliipOp]

damn it's good to have smart people in the world in regards to new technology.hope that those new kind of battery apear soon on the market way to go guy's

[@Cheesycook]

This is what we need more of. Research into better options instead of shoving inefficient technology down people's throats. Great video.

[@JeanPierreWhite]

Nice summary of the battery scene.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks ... and there was so much more I could have covered.

[@kengunn31]

What a smooth, understandable and interesting presentation on a topic I have wondered about. Thanks Matt.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks for watching!

[@eDriver]

Great video! Batteries will become more and more important for our future life. Not only electric cars, also other electric transportation and for all electric powered devices.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! Agreed ... batteries & capacitors are going to continue to be even more pivotal in our lives over the coming years.

[@Mrbfgray]

@tommy aronson Obvious but--I have in recent yr.s replaced ALL my yard power tools, blower, mower, chainsaw, hedge trimmer to batt. powered, they are just better. I expect it won't be long before home owners associations, etc., will begin to demand landscapers do the same just to reduce the racket in the hood.

[@Mrbfgray]

@@phantomwalker8251 HA! Surely you don't fall for THAT nonsense....there is a little problem with "free energy" called physics.

[@victoraul1]

Your "Tesla And Maxwell Technologies" video led me to this one, thank you for this channel, you just inspired me to learn more about batteries and move a bit away from ignorance on this topic.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks for watching! Really happy to hear you got something out of them.

[@benjaminj3934]

I wished you would have mentioned Estonian company Skeleton Tech, who are using a graphene based electrodes in their ultracapacitors already. Their cells exceed Maxwells in performance, and are on the way to become a serious competitor. I am excited for the energy storage future!

[@UndecidedMF]

After making this video I’ve been doing a lot of reading on Skeleton (a bunch of people contacted me about them). They’re on my list for a follow up video at some point. Thanks for the heads up!

[@77.88.]

Outstanding; no waste of time or energy, you gathered together the important known facts. THANK YOU

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks!

[@markswan9148]

fabulous explanation...keep educating us!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks for watching!

[@recuperacostarica7671]

Super Caps are the future for ReGen braking. They will have direct storage to motors and be able to launch at car after braking. The Super Caps storge 80% of kinetic energy in seconds, where batts are about 5 to 15%. Also, they have all of that 80% power availible from a stop. Great for all types of traffic.

[@barbararios3108]

Good idea ,makes Sence divided the batteries in half and capacitors height less ,equal more power , and run a extra generator specially coming out off the brake sistem and coasting mode

[@ben3989]

I have thought about this very idea! one could design a hybrid city delivery van with super cap power system just to launch the vehicle from a stop.

[@peteregan3862]

0.05C charge/discharge is good enough for intercity/freight trains. 20 hours to charge/discharge would fit the daily cycle of many train operations. Glass electrolyte is likely already good enough for rail. The high energy density is good as weight still matters. Assuming an allowable 20 tonnes/axle, a 4-axle train flat car could have a battery with 60 tonnes of glass electrolyte cells (300 Wh/kg) storing 18 MWh (65,000 MJ). After combustion, a train diesel-electric loco can extract about 12 MJ/kg of electric energy to drive the electric motors. Thus, 60 tonnes of glass cells is equivalent to 5.4 tonne of diesel. In the US, a freight train achieves about 20 tonne.km/MJ. In Europe, about half that. If a typical US train journey is 2 million t.km and Europe half that, they would both need 100,000 MJ/28MWh per journey. Say 1.6 flat cars for the battery - possibly 2 electric locomotives could store the energy on board - maybe it would be 3 locomotives. Each loco would only do 180 charge cycles per year - 3,600 cycles in a 20 year life-time. At US$200/kWh, 28,000 kWh of cells would cost US$5.6 m. That is the cost of a locomotive. We could say the cost of a locomotive would rise 50% and would be available only half the time if the batteries were aboard. Given that there are many electric only locomotives in service, dedicated battery cars would be the way to go. For 20 tonne axle loads, we could have 18MWh battery cars that cost $3.6 m - say US $4 m/complete battery car. At the end of its life, the battery would be recycled in a stationary application.

[@mcshawnboy]

I am a big fan of railroads, so that was extra sweet!

[@JadAzido]

Being a student currently working on graphene based supercapacitors, this is true talk. I think Li-ion batteries are going to be the cathode-ray televisions of our modern OLED televisions.

[@UndecidedMF]

Great analogy! And good luck on those graphene supercapacitors ... really exciting stuff.

[@tomkelly8827]

I live with solar panels and lead acid batteries that are connected in parallel with a super capacitor bank to extend the life of my very expensive batteries by absorbing the spikes in usage whenever my fridge/freezer/air compressor kick on. Capacitors are so good at managing the spikes. I would say they are a must have if you care about your batteries. I am so excited to see what MR Musk will do with these 2 energy storage companies. As far as I know the technology for graphene is established now but there is little to no production as of yet. I would love to see a gigafactory that produces super capacitors! I would love to see an electric rocket that uses super capacitors to launch into space. Batteries are too heavy but capacitors are not.

[@UndecidedMF]

Smart setup you’ve got there. And I’m with you on the Tesla/Maxwell Technologies thing. I’m really interested to see what they do with it, as much for the capacitors as the DBE technology.

[@egor.okhterov]

Electric rocket? What do you mean?

[@Andertheil]

Охтеров Егор enough ion thrust in atmosphere from propellant combustion through ion propulsion could in theory produce enough upwards thrust to leave the atmosphere. However, super-capacitors are already in use on most satélites for collection of solar energy. It’s unclear how we could utilize magnetism or EMF for flight in space or in atmosphere.

[@Karthik-ut3vo]

@@Andertheil I think ion propulsion can not be used on earth because it won't produce large thrust to lift the rocket... Ion propulsion is only used in space I guess because it needed less thrust for longer time....

[@tylersatterwhite2034]

Tom I'm curious. Did you create your own capacitor bank? If you did what instruction did you use? Do you have issues with your capacitors holding a charge through the night?

[@drbobssexfactscomedyrap9784]

YOU ARE BRILLIANT

[@GNeuman]

Lithium powers me too...great antidepressant

[@Qman621]

Man, your production quality is insane for the amount of subscribers you have. I'm going to recommend this channel.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! Appreciate the shout out.

[@DheerajBhaskar]

I think you've got the anode and cathode mixed up on the sign of their charge

[@UndecidedMF]

It depends on the battery chemistry. I have a comment pinned to the top with the explanation.

[@glayva5525]

Thank you for such a clear and concise video on such an important subject. Very informative. Really appreciate it.

[@skyserf]

Thi was amazing. Well done sir.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks!

[@TomHarrisonJr]

Well produced and clearly presented -- thanks!

[@UndecidedMF]

Glad you liked it, Tom!

[@RussellFineArt]

Having worked for Apple in the early '90's and seeing the almost-daily improvements in processor speeds and other tech advancements, I see the EV's industry still in the early days of its progression but is moving much faster than it was 30 years ago. I think graphene is the clear future battery tech material but will take about a decade to develop to scale, in the meantime, baby steps of dry electrode and solid-state lithium batteries will rule.

[@UndecidedMF]

Yeah, it’s going to be a while. We have the first graphene enhanced batteries about to the hit the market from Samsung, but it’s going to be expensive and probably in a very limited set of devices. It’ll take a while for this type of stuff to trickle out and hit the mass market. I agree that we’re at the beginning of the S curve for this stuff. Over the next decade it’s going to get very interesting.

[@erikalfonsonilsenphd3290]

Finally. I've been waiting for super capacitors to be commercially available as battery replacements for at least 15 years.

[@markmoran7748]

If only half of my teachers were as good as Matt!

[@UndecidedMF]

Ha! Thanks.

[@artfree-spirit7214]

Very awesome video, Matt! You've given us a great understanding of where battery technology currently sits. Supercapacitors are really innovative, and I think they could pair well with a pack of battery cells.

[@radobalibalos2975]

Wow, very informative. Thanks for this.

[@radiorexandy]

Nice video but won correction: the lightest metal is not lithium but hydrogen. Definition of a metal: 1. The ability to be hammered into a plane -- malleability. 2. The ability to be drawn into a wire -- ductility. 3. Heat (thermal) conductivity. 4. Electrical conductivity. 5. Luster. 6. The ability to bind with the hydroxyl (--OH) radical

[@rapc15]

Great video man! very informative! By the way, there is already a Li-ion and SC hybrid and it is called Li-ion capacitor. Maybe we will see their application in the near future!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! Glad you liked it. I've been collecting more info for a follow up video at some point. Li-ion capacitors will most likely be a part of that video.

[@lonewolfmtnz]

Currently, for off-grid PV storage there is no tech that beats flooded lead acid for the money ... not even close.

[@invent5540]

KZbin: Thanks for this brilliant referral!! "Game of Thrones?" Naah! More of this? Yeah! Where shall we go next youtube?

[@johnglenn2569]

Awesome Presentation and incredible content!!

[@bigadventure3797]

In the short term I see supercapacitors being used in conjunction with LIon batteries.

[@UndecidedMF]

I agree. There’s a lot of upside to going that path. You could probably get better regenerative braking ... and energy discharge for fast acceleration, but also longer battery cell life. Batteries like a nice constant, slow discharge rate. Supercapacitors could take the burden of the sudden spikes of energy like a buffer for the battery. I’m really curious to see if Tesla or any other car makers start going that direction.

[@martinw245]

You are correct. Fisker's next car is said to be a lithium ion/supercapacitor hybrid. And Lamborghini are currently developing a car with the same tech. www.alphr.com/cars/1007592/the-lamborghini-terzo-millennio-is-a-supercapacitor-powered-hypercar-of-the-future

[@benjaminfeddersen7937]

@@UndecidedMF And if a supercapacitor gives you 10 kwh per kilogram, you could make the first 2.5 kwh of a car's energy supercapacitor energy for not that big a cost in weight, then recharge the supercapacitors on braking. You'd just need to find a way to control the capacitor banks to smoothly discharge and recharge the energy and that amount of energy alone could probably move a car at least 50 km. And the battery would only need to kick in at higher speeds so you sip the energy instead of dumping it. Personally I think this is what Tesla is up to with the Roadster 2. They advertise 600 miles of range but also insane acceleration. No way you could move 200 kwhs worth of batteries that quickly on rubber tires...it'll be a capacitor and battery hybrid.

[@UndecidedMF]

Completely agree. I think they’re doing the same thing on the Roadster to hit those numbers.

[@martinw245]

@@UndecidedMF "I think they’re doing the same thing on the Roadster to hit those numbers." Possibly. A UK company, Superdielectrics Ltd. Formed by the Universities of Bristol and Surrey, in the UK, say they have just made a huge breakthrough with supercapictors. In fact rolls Royce have just sighed a deal with them. They are claiming an energy density 50% greater than lithium ion.

[@esraeloh8681]

A.I might get applied to this problem & burst with sudden insights & breakthroughs, these days, even while it still is unlikey, it's now possible for a dedicated talented team to come together & work miracles with these virtual minds

[@UndecidedMF]

Our technological advancements are accelerating and things like A.I. will be like slamming on the accelerator. www.visualcapitalist.com/rising-speed-technological-adoption/

[@Buzzhumma]

Yeah man graphene, if we can create the matrix but it may well be superseded by silica technology as it has more sites to hold ions although it in itself comes along with inherent creation and structural boundaries to overcome. Maybe a dual matrix of both is the way forward as they may form a marriage that offers the best of both worlds. I would say this is what will be the next breakthrough with >300% improvement on top of what maxwells theoretical maximum of 500. If we can achieve a 100kg pack of 500km range with 10 min super charge the electric car will have no competition . I couldn't drive 500km in one hit without a stop for at least 10 min and for health and safety reasons we shouldn’t sit in one spot regardless of self drive so bring on the good stuff Goodenough!

[@gabebabe1]

I suspect that guy who invented lithium battery tech is using a lithium silicate as his 'glass'. I wonder if charged graphene nano tubes dispersed in a lithium silicate could be useful?

[@amrithsuresh]

What if you could combine both? Graphene produced as a side product by Chlorination of SiC and hence results in a Silicon incorporated Graphene.. something which Skeleton technologies are doing. please check their patents ;-) They're amazing!!

[@a.bakker64]

1:01 ‘the positive is the cathode.....’. 40 years ago I learned KNAP. Cathode Negative, Anode Positive.

[@robertjames1259]

Why is that so hard to remember. My god

[@davidlouys3952]

Great vid ! Small precision if I may : lithium batteries don't explode when the separator is punctured (it is already permeable). They explode when the dendrites connect the two electrodes then short circuit, heat, vaporization of the electrolyte, the gaz takes fire and compromises other cells and so on. That's why having a solid electrolyte or no need of one is of paramount importance

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks and fair call out.

[@toddmarshall7573]

The charging of ultracaps is anything but instantaneous. it is much faster than any battery though. The solutions I'm using are hybrid. I'm experimenting with ultracaps on both the source side and the load side of my off-grid power. This allows me to collect power at very low power times...eg Dawn, dusk, and cloudy conditions. It also allows me to charge in bursts. My LiFePo4 batteries don't like trickle charging. Still lots of experimenting to do.

[@onehitpick9758]

What kind of ultracaps are you using?

[@toddmarshall7573]

@@onehitpick9758 green-cap. Know anything about them?

[@onehitpick9758]

@@toddmarshall7573 I haven't used them but may evaluate them. I've heard they have a relatively high self-discharge rate and some kind of variation if you're trying to do things like stack them in series.

[@toddmarshall7573]

They have special circuitry to keep individual cells from overcharging. They do bleed off more than a battery and have less capacity. They can be taken to zero volts with no problems.

[@onehitpick9758]

@@toddmarshall7573 I would hope anything capacitor-like would have less energy density than anything battery like. I wasn't expecting this to shift in the other direction for a few more decades.

[@krissmek289]

Awesome video.I wish people didnt focus so heavily on EVs though. Transport only accounts for a small fraction of emissions. Supercaps would find a better home in the grid

[@GaryWRose]

A combination of Caps and Battery

[@pradeepvincentmusic]

So what you’re saying is, graphene basically is our Vibranium. Cool!

[@BillAnt]

The key is to be able to package the largest surface possible or electron bearing substrates in order to increase energy density. Course that's just one of the requirements, others are durability, performance, and cost effectiveness.

[@St34mPunkPrivateer]

Super Capacitors have their place , but they will never replace a battery, they have two different jobs. You will probably have combo systems, where battery power is routed to the super caps and they will be the "Shield" for heavy loads for the battery banks, as they will most likely never be less efficient at storing large amounts of power compared to a capacitor. The capacitor is a sprinter, the battery is the long distance runner, if you want to image it that way.

[@timothyjohnson1511]

Batteries are nice for storing energy, but devices like the InfinitySAV and the Leonardo ecat produce energy more cleanly and more cheaply than current methods.

[@karthikkrishna5870]

We have lot of technology upgrades in 2 decades except battery capacity. This is a big time we have slacked already. Good to hear we have a future in batteries now. I was looking for a long time on this field of science.

[@masterplumbing1344]

Super caps WILL become the next common batteries.

[@fritt_wastaken]

Master Plumbing No they won't, unless someone finds a way to make them as safe as batteries.

[@stewartmccann7843]

I believe this has now been done have a look at the kilowats lab sirus super capacitor

[@thelining4078]

The information density on this channel is impressive. :-)

[@UndecidedMF]

Thank you!

[@BillAnt]

Lol good one. :D

[@Beevreeter]

I follow both battery and solar technology with great interest - I look forward to the day we have an electric car almost solely powered by the solar panels built into its structure.

[@elk3909]

my ebike does that already

[@rhahar9617]

NANOSOLAR PAINT JOB i am currently working on a perpetual system to power my ev and it will never need to be charged or more precise to say it will charge itself as it is used

[@Beevreeter]

@@rhahar9617 Sounds amazing, keep us informed of your progress!

[@rhahar9617]

Ken Heart Thanks for your positive input , you sound like a very knowledgeable guy. Look for our crowd funding page soon .This will be unique in that every one who donates ( Donators ) will be named on any resulting patent and benefit financially in perpetuity for their contribution, as will people who contribute to the evolution and implementation of our mission statement. people who offer guidance or expertise in the field ( Contributors ) will also be perpetually compinsated.

[@rhahar9617]

Mission statement To create an EV that is always fully charged , and at optimal operating condition at all times and never needing charging. we have been working on conceptual ideas for achieving this goal this round of funding will be for proof of concept and prototype expenses

[@davidh7636]

Nice video. But, don't be surprised how fast new battery technologies start showing up. There is a lot of money driving that race due to huge demand. I think we will soon see power storage grow bigger and better quickly. Much like hard drives did in the last decade.

[@aussie2uGA]

Can't wait for the day when you tell us our graphene supercapcitor equipped cars can recharge via 5G millimeter wave "power beaming" as we drive around town... 😉

[@UndecidedMF]

I’m also looking forward to that. 😜

[@sfuchs]

no need for 5G, future may be Tesla coil.

[@gracefool]

Power beaming is dumb, it's inefficient.

[@aladdin8623]

Oh yeah just shoot more energy radiation around us and our childrens heads. Not every technical progress ist good for us Sir.

[@adrianwood8820]

We should be very afraid of 5G for our health and our privacy brother. We will have the convenience of instant “everything” but that may also include tumours.

[@nilrocks]

Great and very informative video. Thanks for the quality videos you create.

[@donaldstanfield8862]

Maybe when the roadster gets to Mars, we can borrow some Illudium PU-36 from Marvin the Martian...⚡💥💨

[@bobmutchseo]

nice bro, short and sweet. keep them coming!

[@bdr420i]

Electric car need NOS? no problem 😁 use capacitor

[@deepskyfrontier]

Ohmywow!!! I just realized that the weight dedicated to supercapacitors in an e-vehicle that only needs temporary bursts of full-power (like passing, taking-off, or getting to hydroplane) would save mass and cost on the ECS as well.

[@stewartmccann7843]

Have a look at kilowats labs sirus super capacitor they have solved most of the issues

[@UndecidedMF]

Will do!

[@stewartmccann7843]

Did you get the opertunity to have a look

[@meenusharma8903]

is the process mechanism of lithium-ion battries and supercapacitors is same? If no..please explain how

[@InfoCannon]

wait...so his name was actually goodenough....

[@UndecidedMF]

Yep ... John B. Goodenough. You can’t make this stuff up.

[@billdale1]

The dude is in his mid-90's. You can only imagine how many thousands of times he has been kidded about his name--- everyone thinking they are the first one to crack a joke about it. If he's not crazy from all that nonsense by now, you know he's got to have a spectacular constitution. TY ever so much, JG... the world owes you a huge one.

[@InfoCannon]

billdale1 ok...? Lol I respect the hell out of him, just has a peculiar name.

[@UndecidedMF]

I didn’t make a comment on his name in the video for just that reason, but as Andrew said ... it is a peculiar name. It’s hard to resist. But the man deserves some serious props with the work he’s done over his life. He genuinely had an impact on all of our lives. And he’s still doing it in his 90’s! Seriously, I hope I’m still able to do what he’s doing at his age.

[@isthatatesla]

@@UndecidedMF Will you be doing anything even remotely close to what JG is doing at any age? I'm sure I won't.

[@bloubull]

Hi Matt, have you done any updates on the development of graphene?

[@dwilliams2068]

Who has produced a production battery using Maxwell Technology? Although such batteries are probably in the future, the Maxwell capacitors exist and are in commercial use.

[@thisismygate1124]

Great summary of Tesla's choice to purchase Maxwell technologies and of the potentially important implications of this purchase. The author, however, did miss a crucial reason, the hybrid battery, and the capacitor setup. When the new Roadster was introduced, you may have noticed that it had a ridiculous range of over 600 miles. It also may end up the fastest production car in the world and most likely the fastest accelerator in production. Owners of supercars don't usually use them for long family trips, especially when they can only seat 2. They usually like to show them off around the city and have the car towed if they want to show them off elsewhere.. The real reason for such a large battery is the energy draw required for acceleration. The new roadster simply needs more lithium cells to overcome this draw limit and supply the powerful motor the energy it utilizes. To solve the issue of needing such an unnecessarily heavy and large battery, a (super) capacitor is added to provide power bursts during accelerations. But the real advantage of a setup like this is a lighter car thanks to a smaller battery. With a smaller battery, the vehicle can have an extended range, better acceleration, better handling, would be cheaper to produce, etc.. I think that this setup will find applications in other Tesla models and EV's in general. I think it will become and remain the standard setup for a long time. There will most likely always be materials with higher energy density and other materials with higher power density even after the capabilities of graphene are realized in supercapacitors and beyond. I'd expect Tesla to implement Maxwell's technology by the time the new roadster is out, which means there would likely be multiple range choices. The lighter, faster-accelerating Roadsters would probably sell much better and a car that can reach 1000 kilometers on a single charge will serve as definitive proof of concept to push the incumbent internal combustion engine out of private cars (and possibly beyond) for good. If I am correct, the new roadster should have no less of an impact than the original one did. It would take lucrative, tantalizing and capable to a whole new level. Remember that the original roadster ended up being a great starting point for Tesla without which Tesla may have never made it to the model S and beyond. Cheers Elon! :)

[@thisismygate1124]

Forgot to mention the factors to determine if an EV needs a cap and at what ratio. Heat dissipation from the batteries, battery cycle count, vehicle range and max power draw will probably be the major factors dictating the cap to battery ratio.

[@-LightningRod-]

it is coming, the Oil-Killer step by step, bit by bit , till finally BOOM! The FUTURE just landed on yer oil well

[@-LightningRod-]

@Jeff Sol true but musk makes chopsuey of corporate inertia

[@brightbaelfire7232]

Oil will be banned cuz of pollution

[@ninerout399]

The technology is there in molten salt. US patents were issued in the last couple of years and international patents were issued last year. The hurdle that remains is getting funding to build the first pilot plant...

[@countryjoe3551]

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@arushsingh9014]

Awesome coverage... But can you help me with getting the exhaustive details on why li ion batteries explode?

[@VincenzoSims]

Loving the new music and how organized the videos are. Keep it up!

[@UndecidedMF]

Nice to hear. I'm still experimenting with the music section, but am trying to choose music that feels right with the topic. Kind of rotating through a few tracks from the same artist.

[@VincenzoSims]

Undecided with Matt Ferrell • Great to hear!

[@jeffkex7186]

Great video very concise information provided

[@johnperry5396]

How have I not seen this site before? Great lecture.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks!

[@kardy12]

Great video, summarised a lot of stuff in an approachable way!

[@SiXiam]

Biggest thing missing is the Jeff Dahn (another lithium iondeveloper) / Tesla research agreement, which recently had a breakthrough in additives to the electrolyte.

[@nagarajcbe]

Excellent explanation, do we have any industry update ???

[@michaelmcmullen354]

Note that using supercapacitors can change the design of associated Li ion batteries as the design optimization balance can shift more towards energy density (thicker active layer with less area).

[@theosmid8321]

would graphene be suitable for semiconductors?

[@BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMval]

So what if you constatly charge up a supercapacitor with alot of smaller li-oin batteries?

[@bishwasthebelief]

Great!! Thanks for the information..I am working on the combination of Li-ion battery with supercapcitor for energy storage system for PHEV. I have doubt that how would I integrate the engine power and combined electric power for EMS.

[@peterprivacy5034]

Great work (as per usual). But an especially great video this time around. Keep'em coming, Matt!

[@UndecidedMF]

👍

[@faridmashhor6947]

Thank you so much for putting the pieces together... Super-informative!

[@boshaw9531]

"If only we could combine Super Capacitor Power with Lithium Ion battery energy density" Hmmm... I imagine we could make the heavy metal frame from some sort of Graphene hybrid material in the form of Super Capacitors. Great subject matter BTW, Thanks

[@ActiveDuke]

Very good video. Only one question, why does the pattern at one atom thickness become a supercapacitor, while when in thicker layers it is not? Like a wire of copper, or aluminium, the thicker the cross section, the better ability to lead current. Just asking :)

[@muskreality]

Please why do you always forget to include "Skeleton Technologies" these guys are really making progress in the Capacitor industry further more than "Maxwell Technologies". The only difference is that Maxwell Technologies are located in California and Skeleton Technologies are in Estonia.

[@UndecidedMF]

Skeleton is on my list of video ideas as a dedicated episode (really interesting company). Maxwell is of big interest because of their manufacturing technology (DBE) and how it’s going to be applied to Tesla. I have a video on that specifically.

[@muskreality]

@@UndecidedMF Thank you for your kind reply

[@thomaspicom5072]

I have a simple you tube video that addresses the dangers of using cadmium in applications where super capacitors can be used. Let's hope that the Tesla acquisition of Maxwell will continue to allow the manufacture of super caps for the environment. The video is "super capacitor vs cadmium" and is a simple statement to use existing storage devices to reduce the amount of cadmium illegally disposed of in the United States. Your videos are great information!

[@HK_Martin]

Awesome video! great information, and love the editing and music!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

[@henningbochenek5449]

Very informative video. Thanks for the research. One tip though, you should be more active with hands and upper body - it simply looks odd and quite boring

[@mubashirrasool6188]

great knowledge in a small video, thankyouuuu

[@UndecidedMF]

My pleasure