Tesla Solar Roof vs Solar Panels: Which is Worth It?

[@UndecidedMF]

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[@crefel2300]

@@Alexej-h5y yes! Aleos solroof system looks great and is more efficient its comparable to standard panels

[@thorpie2206]

My lord. Going Solar in the USA is so expensive. In Australia you can. Get a high quality 13kw system installed on an existing roof for around $10,000 AUD or the equivalent of $6,500 USD. By professionals with a fantastic warranty.

[@PazLeBon]

@@thorpie2206 yep, about 800 euros per kw in spain/portugal

[@einarmikkelsenPNW]

If you have the space for it, neither. Go for a ground mount. It is easily accessible, runs cooler and more efficient, you can seasonally change their angle, and shield crops growing below them from sun. Agrivlataic for the win!

[@TinkerTry]

​@@einarmikkelsenPNW Good point. In my circumstance, our town of Wethersfield Connecticut wouldn't allow ground mount panels, and my yard is pretty small. We really wanted to settle down near family in the area, and there were no sites for new construction. The costs of new construction were very high during the pandemic too, and owning 2 properties for ~2 years scared us off, especially the notion of having 2 mortgages. Everybody's circumstance is different, and I try hard to refrain from judging others for their personal choices. I just hope sharing our two stories helps others be more informed shoppers as they embark upon making their own decisions that are best for them. - Paul Braren, owner of the Solar Roof featured in this video

[@jeremybrowning8302]

I spoke to 2 installers in the Ohio area about the Solar Roof. Both quoted me prices around $180k which is about half the value of my home. So there was just no way to justify that cost.

[@jeremybrowning8302]

This was for a 24kw system. I still considered it, BUT ran into an issue where I could not find ANY solar loan companies that would go over $120k as maximum loan amount.

[@MGiosparky]

180k!!!! I’m an installer / owner in Cincinnati. For 180k, I could power my neighborhood! What in the world were you having quoted?

[@cp37373]

@@MGiosparky don’t forget people often times put bad information out there to try and suit their narrative

[@AstroDash42]

@@MGiosparky In the video, it costed him 150k, so seems like its in the correct ballpark

[@olmurabis]

@@MGiosparky This reminds me of the time I got a quote from a body shop for dent removal. I wanted them to do it “paintlessly” - no respray after pulling out the dent. The quote was really high so I passed on it. Later on I found out that this was their way of saying they didn’t want the job.

[@trevorksanders]

I think it is because the Solar Roof wing of Telsa is terrible. I signed a contract for a roof, heard nothing for months, then got an email saying the cost was increasing by more than 50% without anyone ever coming out to my house. I decided to just cancel.

[@causaestmalleus4605]

A lot of tesla is terrible, and it starts at the top of the company.

[@justinfowler2857]

​@@causaestmalleus4605Rot from the top or is it fascism?

[@mattbrew11]

The entire solar operation inside tesla is dogshit awful.

[@BlackTownie999]

@@justinfowler2857not everything you disagree with is fascist, a dictionary would help with that.

[@timwildauer5063]

Much of this is because of local regulations and codes. You have to go with licensed installers, and not many companies are willing to go through that process since demand is low. Tesla cant send the same team all over the country installing roofs because of those local regulations. Could they help make things easier? Yes. But it’s not nearly as simple as you think it is.

[@hiagftd]

After watching Mr. Brownlee's video, I contacted Tesla and received the contact information of a local installer. Our house is much smaller than Mr. Brownlee's home, so I figured we might be able to afford it. The quote came back at about 25% more than what Mr. Brownlee paid! It was over a half of the value of our house. Needless to say, it immediately fell outside of our budget.

[@phlogistanjones2722]

Mr. Brownlee seems to be a less than reliable representative for any information I have ever checked referenced sources for. One wonders how the information presented can be considered reliable from any standard that I have been able to verify from actual sources.

[@TinkerTry]

That is heartbreaking to hear, I'm so sorry things turned out that way for you. I can only hope prices fall again someday for your property, or that more competition springs up with similar offerings that suit your needs and budget soon. - Paul Braren from TinkerTry

[@jeffrocheleau3346]

@@TinkerTry How did you get such a large system installed with net metering caps in MA?

[@nikolaninkov]

@@phlogistanjones2722 that's because he gets paid to advertise. If you show interest in the product or better yet, buy it, he's done his job.

[@amconsole]

@@jeffrocheleau3346 I think the size of the actual pannel array is only limited by input voltage limit on the inverter. It’s the inverter power output that’s regulated. You can hook nearly 9kW of panels to a single MPPT input on even cheaper model inverters. If it has 2 inputs, You can hook up to 18kW of solar to it. You would still be limited to whatevee the inverter’s output is rated at. For net metering likely around 10-12kW max, but You’d get those 10-12 for longer duration during the day from morning to late afternoon, not just during midday. Also, with a smart inverter and battery storage, You can pull more power from the roof that does not go to the grid, if You can use it up before it there’s a surpluss.

[@ecoworrier]

I made the decision 11 years ago to go with a metal roof with standard sized frameless panels. I saw these advantages: 1) fewer connections in each string 2) larger gap between roof and panel, giving better ventilation, cooling and therefore efficency 3) more choice in the market using standard sized panels and better efficiency. 4) fewer panels and therefore easier to replace/maintain. I bought 85 panels + 2 spares. One panel shattered on install - not a problem, had a spare on site so i now have 1 spare panel. 5) the metal roof below is more like factory roofing with a repeating trapeze ridge/trough profile. Cheap, lightweight, long lasting and you don't see it because its behind the PV array. In terms of aesthetics i chose a south facing monopitched roof at 35 degrees. Basically a large rectangle covered by a 5 x 17 PV panel grid with no through entries (chimneys, windows, ventilation etc.) Looks great. The house is also box form below the roof - better for surface area to volume ratio and easier to acheive passive house rating than a complex H shape with a correspondingly complex roof shape. The panels were 220 Watt. Modern panels of the same size are 440 now. I will replace them in 4 or 5 years - the replacement will be easy - we can use the existing aluminium subframe and external fixations - no new drilling into the roof will be required.

[@TinkerTry]

Your setup sounds great to me, I'm very happy things sound like they worked out very well for you. FYI, I wasn't allowed ground mount in the towns I wanted to live in, but that's just me, so many others would love to do what you've done. Building new (with a way more efficient design) was quickly ruled out during pandemic due to local construction prices, and lack of small lots to build on. - Paul Braren (the guest on this podcast episode)

[@PackBjammin]

$220 410W panels right now. Might want to move up your replacement timeframe.

[@jimbob3030]

@@PackBjammin No, check again, you can find plenty of 370 - 440w panels in the $90-120 range. Right now there is someone near me selling 655w Canadian Solar panels for $150ea. I would have added 10 of those 655w panels to my system except they're so massive I can't even move them on my own.

[@joep5170]

EXCELLENT report Matt! 100% agree on all you said! I did not get because they are opaque about performance (besides no installers in my area). To add, your comment about "very personal decision" is key. I tell anyone interested there is NO "one size fits all".

[@aaronhall3707]

I can tell you why I didn't get a Tesla solar roof. They didn't deliver. They quoted me and gave me an estimate of 13-18 weeks for install. 12 weeks in they cancelled my order and told me to resubmit through a local roofer they contracted with. The price went up 325% and the installation timeline was then estimated at 48-52 months. So my system price went from $110k with install in 2021 to $365k with install in 2024-2025. I got a standing seam metal roof for $35k installed within a month of contract signing. My solar system was $65, installed 12 weeks after signing, 2 weeks early. Installation was completed in 3 days, and PSE approved tying it into the network only 9 days later.

[@mjc0961]

Damn, can you let me know what company sold you a solar system for $65? Sounds like a great deal! (haha, I assume you left out the k there)

[@phlogistanjones2722]

***BINGO*** I have zero idea how anyone represented in this video can seem happy with the amount of money they were charged for the products and services they received. At every step of this video I found the prices, wait times, permitting, installation and performance of the systems to be less than half of what I can personally verify as "reasonable". The fact that EVERYONE in the video was "happy" with their systems and experiences was baffling. TLDR: They paid 1.5-2x what a high-end charge would be expected to be and waited 2x-4x what a very delayed and drawn-out installation time should be.

[@healer81]

365K to install or even 110k to install, how much power could you spend using the grid to equal to that???? Not to mention the environment and the human rights issues surrounding the manufacturing and procurement of the materials and minerals it requires. I suppose by not looking into these things can allow you to sleep better at night believing you are doing good in the world.

[@kevinb7551]

musk is selling science fiction, believing it can be real if you want it bad enough 😂😂😂

[@edc1569]

Solar prices in the USA are insane! You know those huge 400W panels are $60 in the UK? I don’t get why anyone would bother, your electricity is so much cheaper too.

[@rogerjohnston9545]

We have 12 year old panels. 4 have hail damage. Even though they are still working, we decided to replece the entire array. We use bet metering rather than batteries and are net $0. We are upgrading to new and fewer panels for the same kw this spring. The older panels paid for themselves ib 7 years we expect the new array to do so in 30 months. Love them. Can not imagine doing this upgrade with roof tiles.

[@jfolz]

No no no, just no! Don't you see you're doing it wrong? You need to buy everything in one neat, hermetically sealed packaged, because ✨ _aesthetics_ ✨.

[@rogerjohnston9545]

@@jfolz lol

[@jfolz]

@@rogerjohnston9545 /s in case that want clear. Our installation will have paid for itself twice over next year or so.

[@rogerjohnston9545]

@@jfolz panels or tiles?

[@jfolz]

@@rogerjohnston9545 panels. I don't think tiles were an option in 2011 ;)

[@ricoma6037]

One thing that isn't considered is the Home Owner Association rules. Currently, our area has legislation drafted that will restrict HOA's from preventing Solar installations. We'll see if it passes.

[@MCPicoli]

Most HOAs allow for Tesla's solar roof since they're indistinguishable from normal roofs from the outside.

[@ricoma6037]

@MCPicoli that restricts the homeowners to one brand and style of renewable energy. It's not the best solution for global change that's needed, in my opinion.

[@MCPicoli]

@@ricoma6037 true, just saying that at least there is one option instead of none.

[@D3adP00I]

Check state laws, several states have prevented HOA's regulating any solar installations

[@BobClemintime]

Check the laws in your state. Many limit how HOAs can regulate solar panels

[@JerryRigEverything]

Very interesting. I didn't know the prices were so similar.

[@LiveMedia123]

Matt Ferrell got scammed if you ask me, he is basically and almost desperately trying to justify his choice. Maybe hes right about the longevity of his metal roof but I doubt that has much merit when looking at the Tesla Solar Roof material. Also he got less KWh than Paul? And therefor basically paid more for an, in my opinion, an uglier roof.

[@charedj]

They've both been scammed - the cost is a complete joke. ~$100k for those systems and medium quality roofs is an absolute rip off.

[@LiveMedia123]

@@charedj I think it depends on where you live but you might be right.

[@UndecidedMF]

I was surprised too, but it’s going to vary a lot depending on where you live, local labor costs, etc.

[@charedj]

@@UndecidedMF Matt, honestly, you overpaid by an incredible amount. In another video you state you have: 43x400W panels IQ8 Inverters 4x Batteries? Cost: ~$55,000-88,000(with batteries) I can purchase in Germany: 50x420W JA solar Bifacials -5000 EUR SMA 25kW Hybrid inverter -2400 EUR 3x 12.8 kWh BYD Batteries -17200 EUR Mounting/cabling ~-5000 EUR (estimate) That's around 30,000 EUR plus labour. I've installed hundreds of systems including batteries and this would take less than a week to install, so I'll go crazy and call it 10,000 labour. That's ~40,000 EUR. What on earth did you pay for dude?!

[@charedj]

Overall costs for both roofs and systems are ridiculous, I'm kind of amazed at how much you both paid. Both of you have been taken for an absolute ride.

[@jerrys9226]

This is all absolutely stupid!

[@johndoe6032]

Matt's solar panel only cost actually sounds kind of high but reasonable. May be a location issue. The cost of the batteries is where it gets crazy. You don't need the batteries, and when I was pricing out a solar install, I could not justify the cost financially. I think you really want to maximize your solar utilization over cost considerations to go with the battery add-on.

[@JimQuinn-tb3uq]

You are absolutely right. I installed solar panels and I figure it would take about a 100 years to have them pay off. The only reason I did it was that I live in a rural area and the electricity coverage is pretty spotty. I got tired of having my electricity shut off at random times. Also the electricty was off for 5 days (during winter) one time. Fortunately no pipes busted which was a blessing.

[@jonv570]

@johndoe6032 the battery will be dead before its paid itself off....really stupid

[@DaZeDJareD]

100% I only have a 6.5kw system with no batteries but I paid around 3-4k usd in australia 4 years ago

[@OnsWereldSuiderland]

In South Africa, our 2.9Kw 48v system, with 105A Lithium Battery and Inverter, cost us R56 000 in total, about $2,500. Granted my brother in law and myself did all the work, excluding the installation of the electrical switch board, linking our system to the grid and checking/certification of our system by a certified electrician, required by our local municipality and for insurance purposes, but paying for that is included in the cost above. Took us two years to fully pay for the system out of our savings

[@TinkerTry]

That sounds amazing! I appreciate learning a more worldly perspective, one of the advantages of reading these comments. Thank you for sharing! - Paul Braren, owner of the Solar Roof featured in this video

[@flyingalexf68]

I’m absolutely shocked with the prices you quote. In Ireland, a 400w panel (with 25 year warranty etc) is equivalent to $200. May 16 panel 6.4kWp system was €11400 and I paid over the odds due to supply/demand issues. It generates twice as much power as I use annually. I get credit for the power I export to the grid. It will cost €5000 to add a 5kWh battery if I choose to in future. What in the name of the baby Jebus in his crib are you paying for over there???

[@andrewfidel2220]

​@@flyingalexf68 how is a 5kWh battery €5k?!? Look into server rack LFP batteries, they're $1,200-$1,600 for 48V 5kWh units, though right now prices are headed down due to a glut of capacity due to slowed EV demand in China causing the market to be oversupplied.

[@linux230]

Wow. That's awesome 👍

[@AndyFletcherX31]

@@andrewfidel2220I've just ordered a 15KWh LFP system (cells plus Seplos BMS/case) costing £1450 DDP to the UK.

[@alunjones2550]

I'm in the UK with a similar sized house. If I put $150'000 in a high interest account, it would pay may annual electric bill entirely, with enough left over to compensate for inflation.

[@Edramon53]

Can't rely on having high interests forever though.

[@paul1979uk2000]

To be fair, you wouldn't need to spend anywhere near that amount for that kind of set up.

[@alunjones2550]

@@Edramon53 When have high-interest accounts not been high interest? The clue's in the name.....

[@thewolfdoctor761]

@@Edramon53 A 30 year bond in the US is paying around 4.46%. $150K * 4.46% = $6690 per year. That's more than $500 / month. My electric bill averages around $100-$150 / month.

[@randya9143]

Some people have money to burn. I am not that lucky....

[@lyracian]

I already went with standard solar panels. Only a 3 bedroomed house in old England with a 4 kWp system but I have not paid for any electricity in almost two years now.

[@P_RO_]

@@BobDevVOff-grid equals you control everything so your investment return can be calculated and is assured. Grid-tie means you have no direct control, and you have no assurance that you'll even see a substantial return of your investment much less all of it.. See what just happened in California- that can be you too.

[@danieldelillo]

Sounds great and all, but my electric bill cost me $498.99 last years. Let's round it to $500 a year and note that I also have 3 bedrooms. How many years would it take to pay off that investment? 20 years / 30 years / 40 years. Why would I put that money out front when I can invest it?

[@diamondgrape543]

​@@danieldelillotheir system is ludicrously expensive. I'm paying 23k USD for 12.5kw system here in Canada (31k CAD after tax) with Enphase IQ8h microinverters

[@danieldelillo]

@@diamondgrape543Well let me just play stupid and ask what the real reality of these panels are. Cost of ownership and maintenance. For someone like myself that has a power bill of $500 a year, that's like 50 years to equal $25,000. It's my opinion that this equipment is truly for people with high energy expenses, but maybe I'm wrong.

[@russael001]

I replaced my roof with traditional asphalt shingles, and I went with SunPower panels with micro inverters along with the SunVault storage solution in 2021. Here in Michigan, we don't have net metering anymore - we are on something called Distributed Generation. Basically, the energy sent back to the grid is given as bill credit, and it is credited 100% for both peak and off peak, however, we have a separate distribution charge that solar credit does not pay for, which applies to any inflow from the grid. For example, say I send 200kw to the grid but consume 200kw from the grid in the same month. The energy charge would be 0, but I would receive a bill of 200kw for distribution due to the consumption, plus their regular fixed charges. I didn't know that was a thing, but it makes me happier that I got the solar batteries. This means the batteries do pay for themselves with distribution charge savings. Instead of drawing energy from the grid at night, the batteries supply power to the house instead until they reach a depth of discharge set point (adjustable from 20 to 80%). I started with a 7.6kw system with 26kw/h of storage, and then upgraded to 10kw with 52kw/h of storage in 2022. This allows my house to remain energy independent for about 8 months out of the year, and I use up bill credit during the winter months. It is also powerful enough to run the house during grid outages to the point where we can ignore an outage, unless it is in the middle of winter. Due to fixed charges, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have no bill from the utility. Credits do not cover any additional services either, such as the surge protection program I signed up for (it's a meter socket surge suppressor that is installed by the utility... and then they charge a monthly fee.) Overall, I'm quite happy with the system and its performance. It has had some quirks with the storage system, but Sunpower support has generally been helpful. No issues at all with the panels or micro inverters, or their Hub+ load center.

[@brucethornton7352]

I think you are right Matt, Any system that doesn't use readily available parts is asking for trouble if your goal is to have an easily maintainable system. Cutting edge products are fun to play with, but I have all the headaches I need just trying to build maximum reliability.

[@Kamodomon]

That point about being an early adopter Matt brought up was a VERY VERY GOOD point. Roof stuff isn't a phone or a game console, it's a very long term "investment" (it's not REALLY an investment, but you get what I'm going for here). It has to be reliable, it has to be easy to either replace or maintain, it has to last a long time.

[@scopie49]

Same idea with smart home tech. Way too many stories of businesses going under, servers going offline, older equipment no longer receiving support. Suddenly your thousands in smart tech turns into a dead brick overnight which is bad enough but depending on what you had connected you might not be able to turn on lights, open your garage, or control your thermostat etc. Way too unreliable.

[@Alfaomegabravo]

Anything that earns or saves you money over time I could consider an investment, but you need to do your comparisons and lifecycle analysis first.

[@grn1]

@@Alfaomegabravo Was going to say that the term investment isn't strictly for finances. It's anything you do improve the value of something else. Eating right and exercising is an investment in your health. School is (supposed to be at least) an investment in your future work capabilities which affects both financial opportunities and health.

[@Alfaomegabravo]

@@grn1 Sure, I'm just saying a poodle is a dog not that dogs are poodles.

[@mnomadvfx]

Most importantly, it has to be installed by people who have significant experience working on roofs to begin with. I have met plenty of people who got solar roofs only to suffer water intrusion problems because the installers clearly either didn't know how to probably water proof their work, or they didn't even think about it.

[@einarmikkelsenPNW]

I installed a solar system on my roof myself and found that the efficiency goes down a bit when it is warm out. Thus, June produces more power than the hotter August, with the same amount of sunny days. My next system will be ground mounted to get around this, with cooling from crops growing below.

[@Chopped86]

I wonder if the heat killing efficiency is any more significant on the solar roof vs regular panels as they suffer the same fate in heat.

[@einarmikkelsenPNW]

@@Chopped86 I think they will be pretty close, but the solar panels will have some airflow below. Ground based gets the most.

[@georgehenry3384]

Solar panels are silicon chips essentially, more heat = higher resistance = lower energy output. PV efficiency goes up in the winter but shorter days reduces total energy output.

[@Chopped86]

@@einarmikkelsenPNW yeah that’s what I’m suspecting as there is also flow below the roof, though a bit less. If you’re in the PNW the effect is so minimal as well. I’ve lived in the PNW and in the opposite environment in Phoenix where the panels get crushed 8 months out of the year with heat. Ground based would be best but I do not know if I would want to commit having panels in my beautiful backyard especially since where I live we are capped at a 10kw inverter which becomes 7.7kw in the real world.

[@-_James_-]

This is why vertically installed, north-south orientated, double sided panels are a better option for very hot countries. In the extreme heat of midday the panels are not facing the sun and therefore don't get as hot.

[@lindacgrace2973]

I live in Arizona - fabulous conditions for solar. My house will have a traditional clay tile roof, so solar on the roof is no bueno. I plan to put an array in the back yard on short stilts. The panels will shade my chicken coop, and have a water cachment set-up. Capturing water is just as important as capturing sunlight. A 10Kw array will capture a couple of thousand gallons of water during our monsoon season with the simple addition of a gutter with the downpipes directed to a cistern.

[@jesuspunk84]

Clay tile roof looks to be better for solar install if you want to avoid leaks. They lift the tile, put the anchor in which extend along the facedown side of the tile, at the end theres the proper anchor for the panel itself. Look pretty sturdy, its been done for a long time in europe. Seen many install in UK and germany like that and you cant tell me that EU country have lower standard and regulation when it come to solar install. You should check it out, theres plenty video online about it.

[@joeschmoe7951]

I would never put panels on my roof unless I had too. Build a porch or something and put your panels on that or like you said cover a coop.

[@TinkerTry]

My town doesn't allow ground-mount solar, but that arrangement sounds awesome and very logical, thanks for dropping this comment! - Paul Braren, owner of the Solar Roof featured in this video

[@lindacgrace2973]

@@TinkerTry Thanks! That's a major reason that I chose Arizona - they have intelligent water and energy laws. In Colorado, capturing rainwater that falls on your own property is illegal (?!?). Many jurisdictions restrict or ban roof-top bladeless turbines, ground-mount solar, and any number of other solutions. Arizona, which is running out of water and has an aging and unreliable power grid, quite sensibly allows (and offers tax incentives) for anyone who disconnects from the public power grid and collects their own rainwater. It's possible to live completely off-gird in the heart of a nice suburb. So, suburban Prescott, here I come. 🙂

[@lindacgrace2973]

@@gorak9000 Yes, I've seen them. For me it's an aesthetic choice. I'm building a Spanish Colonial Revival with as many historic details as I can afford. I think that sleek black modern solar panels spoil the romantic antique look of the roof. Since I have the space, and can use the panels to create shade for my hens and a rain roof for capturing more water, I see no reason to put solar on my roof. So, it's not a technical installation issue, I chose an off-roof installation due to other considerations. But thanks for offering that tip 🙂

[@LeeGallatin]

So many don't think about utilizing solar panels as a carport roof, or awning, or shed roof . They don't always have to be mounted on the roof of the home

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Anywhere sun shines yes sir

[@mnomadvfx]

So many don't HAVE a carport, awning or shed to put a solar array on.

[@LeeGallatin]

@@mnomadvfx for the price of a ground mount and/or racking , you could easily sub in one of these. notice I said "as a" . do the maths

[@johndoe6032]

Or just some bifacial vertical panels in their yard or as fencing. They're more efficient anyway.

[@johndoe6032]

@@LeeGallatin You didn't say "as a"

[@navajojohn9448]

Years ago I used the Tesla roof calculator for my Florida 5200 sq' ft roof and came to $120k. At the time my electricity was 10.2 cents per kWh and today it is only 11.2 cents. Then adding 120k value to my home would increase my property tax for years to come plus insurance would raise my rates a bunch. So I just pay the 11.2 cents kWh. And if I got solar I would want run off batteries and use grid as a back up so even more costs all around.

[@dr.daveroberts7628]

Two years ago we tried to get a Tesla solar roof installed... it was a horror story of "no refund for you" and incompetent installers. They still owe us for preparation costs. They doubled the cost of the roof AFTER we had a signed contract, so we are now part of a class action to try and recover our preparation costs. At one point Tesla told us they would reimburse us, but that was two years ago. I drive a Model 3 and have plenty of Tesla stock, but the solar roof is not a product I would recommend.

[@johndoe6032]

better dump that meme stock while you can

[@FischerNilsA]

Dump that stock, man. The more obvious it becomes Musk is more of a conman than a genius? The more people will notice Tesla is TINY compared to other carbuilders - installations, production and capital reserves. And the stock overpriced af, primarily due to the cult of personality fan base.

[@johndoe6032]

@@FischerNilsAdefinitely a meme stock. You okay either way fire trying to deal with those.

[@Phil-kt6hc]

I live in the UK and a 7KwHP array with 13kwh storage can be done for about £13k. Your numbers are mind boggling... Also it might have been nice to find someone with an in roof system to compare that. Great channel!

[@michaelkaster5058]

we have large tariffs on imported panels, especially those made in china

[@paul1979uk2000]

I was thinking the price seemed crazy eye for that set up compared to the ones you can get in Europe. I know there are tariffs on imports from China in the US, but surely that's not making up such a high price tag. To be fair, solar is getting dirt cheap now that the installation and inventor is the highest cost, not the panels, but I do have to wonder what kind of set up I could do in the UK for the cost they paid for their set-up. Anyway, is a solar set-up really that much more expensive?

[@IXISSV]

$153k in the UK could buy a field AND a solar farm! 🤣😂🤣 (Ok, maybe a bit far fetched, but it could buy you a house!)

[@adrianrehwald3253]

Same here in Germany, 17.7 kWp Panels with 20 kWh battery is 20k€ (self-installed). With professionals installing everything that would be 30 - 40 k€ (depending on the local market situation). The American prices seem crazy.

[@henrikparksjo7980]

I work for a solar company in Sweden. I could probably sell a 17 kWp roof installed solar plant for less than $15k. Adding a 20 kWh battery would probably be another $15k. You'd get a $9.5k tax deduction, so the whole installation would cost approximately $20-21k...

[@cman2270]

I used to work at Gigafactory 2 manufacturing the solar roof. Great product, shoddy execution

[@dertythegrower]

I worked for the tesla superbeam team (half the line was welding robots, shorts proof) same, great product but the machines constantly broke, or jammed, especially the ones using weld robots.. humans never caused the delays robots constantly did (also honda robots even more, did that also for honda crv bumpers, same factory)

[@aussie2uGA]

Very interesting! Always nice to hear inside knowledge.@@dertythegrower

[@PrograError]

no NDAs in revelation? @cman2270 @dertythegrower

[@triforcelink]

Why doesn’t Tesla sell solar roof shingles direct to consumer?

[@dertythegrower]

@@triforcelink If you research fertilizer, for example, sometimes a person will overwater or forget to water, but then leave your fertilizer a bad review... they blame someone else for their misuse.

[@ungoyone]

My takeaway came at the very end. Perhaps I wasn't paying close attention but it seems to me that Tesla is padding thier production numbers by doubling the stated output. Only by direct contact will they fix thier "bug" when it should be a product wide update. How many others are confused or dont even realize what they're producing or not producing?

[@Ravespillo]

I put a Tesla solar system in last year, and because I went through Tesla's site for a quote, but worked with a local roofing contractor I was done in 5 weeks from initial contact, including PTO for a 20 kW system with 4 powerwalls and 3 inverters. The whole install process took about 10 days and the rest of the time I was waiting on PTO and a few final touches. I cannot stress enough what a difference it made to have a wonderful, quality local contractor that did a fantastic job. The whole thing has been running flawlessly since they completed it and I never had to deal with Tesla directly.

[@pewpeww556]

How much did you pay?

[@moriumakhter2424]

tesla marketer

[@awilson1193]

I believe him I went to website and same day got a call from a 3rd party installer I was just trying to get information but the guy thst called was inforrmative kpostcompany was the company I heard from

[@JerzyLasica]

until one day you will need to and you'll end up needing to buy another roof because new model of the shins won't be backwards compatible. and it will be even more expensive. but you'll be happy because it's tesla and you're happy to give them money.

[@douglascaskey7302]

And how much of that roof is subsdized with tax dollars by your neighbors?

[@JoshuaHeagleDev]

The solar roof looks lovely, I was interested in it a few years ago. I think I feel the same as you do about the newness of the product and being able to replace it as needed in the future. Putting on a solid good quality roof to start and having standard, replaceable panels feels like the best balance.

[@LordReginaldMeowmont]

In Florida, they won't insure your roof if it's a solar roof. That's killing the market with all the hurricanes we get.

[@ScoobyFermentation]

Florida and California’s loss is my gain because I’m getting a killer deal on solar ($2.89/watt) because of lower demand this year. I priced the same system out a couple of years ago and it was about $3.20/watt.

[@dertythegrower]

do it yourself in the back yard using smaller cheaper systems... the roof ones are no longer priced even close to diy solar, which can power most peoples stuff in the home, esp florida... the battery systems now are so cheap and many market them with stackable options.. he had ads for them here 2023

[@dertythegrower]

also ,☝️ to add, and what i mean is.. dont tell them at statefarm or whatever that you have diy solar, its not going to be recovered by their policy as its NOT locked down, you can move it when the inspection guy comes, so it has zero do with them of its portable diy solar.

[@LordReginaldMeowmont]

@@dertythegrower thanks, I'll look into that.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

Pretty soon it will be very hard to get ANY insurance in Florida, regardless of what's on your roof.

[@olebloom1641]

Leaning towards regular solar panels.

[@dertythegrower]

diy solar and portable batteries (which he has shown here many episodes) is becoming clearly a better more portable option... and simpler to run..and not locked down perma solar which insurance and home suburban areaa disallow... diy is becoming so simple with the plug and play solar.. about time

[@aussie2uGA]

Yep, ecoFlow has just about swayed me into thei whole house UltraPro lineup. @@dertythegrower

[@BLKMGK4]

@@dertythegrower Where are you seeing PnP 10+KW systems and 20KW or more batteries? Those little "solar generators" are a joke in comparison to a fixed install.

[@lolnubsauce763]

Absolutely no regrets for having my Tesla solar array installed with three power walls back in 2020. Haven’t paid for electricity since and the entire system produces an excess of 3 megawatts a year. That’s on top of the power walls being discharged daily over the summer back to the grid with a program managed between Tesla & Eversource. Thanks to the subsidies at the time of purchase the entire system will pay for itself by the end of next year. I’m in CT so roughly 50-60% of days are sunny here.

[@TinkerTry]

Good feedback for me to hear, especially as the Solar Roof owner featured in this video. Thank you!

[@jamesbernau6904]

Great article Matt. I went with a Tesla solar roof after looking at four companies. The total system took 4 months to install, all due to local utility refusal to allow me to install the two Powerwall Plus batteries with the solar roof. I eventually had to go to the city council to request approval to install. We had companies say the solar roof would not work on my home. The real problem with most of the systems is the installers.

[@ersu.t]

I've never even seen a slate roof.. we consider metal to be the budget option in Australia. The other big issue with solar on the roof is the heat and the gap between the roof and the panels. My solar is sitting 100mm off the tile roof, the tile roof can hit temperatures of 80 degrees C. The solar panels also get heated at a loss of 1% per degree past 25C. Thats a 55% loss on hot days over 35 C. However we should have the option to increase the gap between roof and solar panels to help keep the panels cool. How does the Telsa panels keep cool?

[@dertythegrower]

a metal roof company ironically ran ad yesterday.. it is because rich people get them as they are protected by 50 year warranty and low maintain factor

[@carlwest859]

Solar has so many unknowns, I've heard of 0.4%--0.5% and 0.75--1% loss above 25*C. So what is it? I purchased panels that are rated for 455 watts, and one day they were cranking out 570 watts each with reflection from snow on the ground. I installed ground mount panels to avoid the roof top eyesore, and that may be the coolest location with grass underneath rather than a hot roof.

[@constancechappellhorne7436]

@@carlwest859 If the panels are shading the roof, how is it getting hot (except from heat from the panels)? Also, how would grass grow if it is shaded by the panels. More likely to get patchy weeds.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

Anyone building a new home (or completely new roof) should put an air gap under the top layer of roofing. Similar to a rain screen behind the siding on your walls. Venting that top layer will help dissipate the heat soak from the panels. Regarding slate roofs, they're very popular in the Northeast USA, for people that can afford them. Slate was historically easy to get and obviously extremely durable, but it's VERY heavy and requires robust framing underneath.

[@TinkerTry]

Tesla Solar Roof has a 1" air gap underneath the panels, and some vents along the bottom and top edges for passive venting upward. This may help some, but I won't know for sure until we get into this summer of 2024, my first full summer with the system fully operation. Also worth noting that my town doesn't allow ground-mount solar, and my yard is pretty small anyway. - Paul Braren, owner of the Solar Roof featured in this video

[@jacobbronstein1585]

You need to do a video walkthrough all of Paul’s home energy setup. He’s living my dream. Like how off the grid can he be? What types of monthly costs does he have between charging the car and the house energy needs?

[@14energy]

Those prices are crazy expensive when compared what Im paying over here in the EU. Im getting next week 10 KW solar panels with 11 KW EV charger with installation for 10k EUR. On top of that Ill get 50% off of that price subsidized from the government by the end of this year. Im really happy with this deal :)

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Various things can be more costly in the US. Wages are also generally higher. He's also in a particularly expensive part of the US as well.

[@14energy]

@@chickenfishhybrid44 true that but overall Im getting a sweet deal and executing. Bueno :)

[@kenoliver8913]

But it is not just Europe. Last December (summer in Australia) I had a 6.5kW system put in for $A3.5k (after about $1.2k in government rebates). That's about $US2.7k. And because of our weak currency we are used to most things costing a bit more here than in the US.

[@jvin248]

I found the best solution is build a ground mount solar array. Highest probability is your roof is in the middle of its lifespan and thus a Tesla Roof tear off throws away roof money or the solar install needs to be dismantled in a few years to replace the roof (roof conditions top home buyer fears lists). ... With a ground mount you'll lose some yard space and have to mow around it but it converts the project from locating contractors to do roof installs on second-story-high-roofs to a much more manageable DIY scenario. You can also create secondary benefits such as a back yard deck/pergola design, a carport in front of or next to a garage, or a low storage shed depending on space available. Property setbacks and whatnot will come into play.

[@danielworrel]

We had a solar roof installed and completed in March 2022. Total experience has been extreme Remely disappointing. We are in Dallas Texas. Went with a third-party installer because I could never get anyone from Tesla on the phone. They assured me that they were the highest volume Installer in North Texas. The company is called Good Faith Energy. Unfortunately, their service after the sale was also extremely disappointing. The roofing crew and installers were very enthusiastic. Worked hard, but did take about six weeks to install the roof. 35 kW system. It has far under performed what they projected. We also have four power walls and four inverters. Tesla Service for this has been pretty useless. My initial quote from, Tesla was roughly $120,000. Ended up costing us twice as much.

[@mikelacross]

As you said, your metal roof (sorry, I put floor?) should never need any maintenance & solar panels can reasonably be replaced + how long will the tiles last. Although 27kw is quite impressive.

[@-JustHuman-]

The guaranty of the solar roof is 25 years, same as many other roof options have, some only come with 20 or 15 years even.

[@TysonJensen]

In what world does metal not need maintenance? Even pure stainless steel rusts eventually. Humans are kinda weird. Willing to believe anything if a salesperson is nice enough when they say it. Only after the deal's done do y'all turn on your brains to think about it.

[@tlpineapple1]

@@TysonJensen People are speaking in general. Yes, metal roofs, even stainless steel will corrode; however, the lifespan of a metal roof is SIGNIFICANTLY longer to the point where it essentially doesnt need maintenance. Its not that it literally doesnt need maintenance, its that these costs are so spread out that it feels like it doesnt.

[@marceldiezasch6192]

@@TysonJensen Metal roofs are extremely rare in the colder European nations. It's mostly ceramic shingles and those roofs can last 100+ years if there isn't major storm damage. So maybe not ideal for tornado counties, but otherwise it's great, easy to replace individual shingles if necessary, easy to add solar and pretty cheap.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@TysonJensen some of them offer a 25 year warranty or even lifetime.

[@FerTechCH]

We learn so much with your videos! thank you! Your quality is sublime! 😉

[@pgetti6]

I think Matt’s roof has a bigger advantage in that’s it’s white. Meaning it’s reflecting light so should stay cooler in the summer months. It’s also stay cooler which is best for the solar panels.

[@dirtbikenrcman]

As someone who works a ton of heavy commercial/industrial one of the big questions for the decision is insurance coverage. If a panel fails and causes a fire what happens? I like your set up because it's metal and inherently more fire resistant.sure it might damage the paint but it won't burn. I'm %100 on board with the green energy movement I have gotten a large building an energy star but the legal aspect is a critical conversation.

[@RoninTX3377]

I love this video. I'm in he planning stages of remodeling my home here in the Houston area, and the roof was needing replacement anyway. The way you present the pros and cons is so much better than other videos I've seen. Thank you for taking the time to put this out there to let people make informed decisions.

[@hammersampson]

Finally, a video on a subject that isn’t always 10 years away.

[@erictheblue7256]

Experience has taught me with expensive, complex technologies, COTS works better in the long run (COTS: common off the shelf technology).

[@PrograError]

Open Source always works better in terms of maintenance, both in Software and Hardware...

[@jts8053]

My current thinking is I am going with panels, but where I am building has a lot of trees and the array won't be on the roof. I plan on free-standing panels at the southern edge of the lot where there is open ground and a lot more direct sunlight. I also plan on owning all the hardware and not contracting with a company.

[@AndirHon]

Your option is the best IMO. I have also been looking at getting an array to put on my parent's farm and I can get them started with a 14Kw array, 12Kw of AC output, and 15Kwh of battery for about $15k and there's no restrictions on the roof directions, cleaning the panels is easier, and you'll see a return much quicker. It's also expandable. I can easily add batteries down the line, which is likely better since the batteries are the pricey bit. Also getting them over time means replacing them over time when they wear out. Net metering sucks for them though, it's an energy credit that expires so there's literally zero incentive to feed back to the grid making the inverters I choose cheaper. I'd be using the grid to top off if the battery is low.

[@gold3084]

Here in Australia the solar panel size is limited by your electricity company; especially if you are only single phase.

[@richardkeller4892]

I saw about vertical solar panels generating as much as ones on rooftops. They may have been double aided panels. Doesn’t metal roof heating up reduce solar efficiency. That was another reason that vertical solar panels generated more energy than expected.

[@gksargen]

I recently got a quote for a Tesla solar roof, and my decision to not do it was based on two factors: cost (200k) and the low confidence/trust in the installer. 18kW system with 3 powerwalls & Span...$200k! 😢 The installer is the only option in the area. Ended up continuing the dream without taking the next step.

[@johndoe6032]

Damn! Makes me want to become a Tesla solar installer. They are absolutely fleecing people! It's an expensive endeavor to be a Tesla fanatic!

[@kevtheobald]

Nice work Matt. Your videos do not feel so informercial like some other KZbin channels. Many get sponsors and gifts, but many dance around if they are sponsored or if they got something gifted. I know it take money and resources to run a channel, but pretending your an unbiased reviewer when there is clear reason for bias and it is not acknowledged is just unprofessional. You seem to make a clear effort not to hide any possible bias and love that while you are comparing products, you are keeping as much opinion out and going with data driven results. Keep up the great work Matt.

[@kevtheobald]

@@gorak9000I do not read the comments, I watch his videos. I have seen 30 of them and never once heard him say "this is the best choice ever" or anything like that. Can you show an actual example of Matt pushing a product in the comments or is this just something you are pulling out of your...

[@scottrobinson3847]

Wow!! That’s a lot of power to break even and that’s if you pay cash.

[@matarael]

That’s what I was thinking. On the low end of my power bill, it’ll be 35 years to break even. Yes it looks amazing, and I wouldn’t have to worry about blackouts. But 35 years? The technological advancements over that time to finally break even. I’d want upgrades by then.

[@thomaskim3128]

@@matarael Definetly not worth it. I had my conventional solar system installed in 2015, and I'm about to break even already. In a few months, I will have free electricity. Anything Tesla is a money pit. I bought a Tesla Y in August 2023 for $58K, after all taxes, today you can buy the same spec Model Y for about $49K - the depreciation is crazy.

[@GLJosh]

I have looked into Solar for my house in the middle of Illinois. It would take between 10 to 15 years to see a complete return (5-year span is dependent on style of panels and changes in energy rates). Thus, making the potential of a decent return as long as my family doesn't need to move over the next decade.

[@Matt_K]

$107K for a roof????? More than half of Americans have about $1,200 saved in bank account. For example, in Florida that kind of investment would be just stupid because insurance companies drop coverage if roof is not replaced after like 12 or 15 years.

[@tomkelly8827]

I bought used solar panels. 4KW for $1300 Canadian. I flashed them together so they could act like shingles for the roof. So the solar panels are the roof for my woodshed. No leaks. It works great! So cheap too! Lead acid batteries store my power. They cost $2200 CDN. So I live off grid with very little generator use except for deep in the winter months for a little over $5000 CDN (with wires and charge controllers and inverters). With our snow loads here I really like my panels on the wall better though. I never have to sweep snow off of them in the winter. So I like my solar roof but my solar wall is my preference.

[@yt551217]

In WA, only a few have Tesla roofs been done and cost was exhorbitant. Went with metal roof and Solar Panels / Enphase microinverters. Very happy. No need for batteries since have net metering and very few power outages. Thanks for your interesting content

[@stormfire962imastarcitizen5]

Matt Ferrell your system also offers other benefits like for instance I think you would have an easier time to upgrade your system then your friend would and you would have a better chance of getting parts for it from other locations and providers if needed as opposed to what your friend has since he must deal through Tesla.

[@WalterRiggs]

Solar roofing could have changed the world if Tesla had not squirreled their attention elsewhere. Looking forward to your fall update after the summer’s generation status are in!

[@aussie2uGA]

I disagree. Solar City, which it was originally, was failing. Elon basically saved the company by wrapping it up under Tesla.

[@frederickheard2022]

People who think Elon Musk is anything but a liability 😂

[@aussie2uGA]

If you're American, Elon showed us just how in bed our government was with Twitter. Just like banning TikTok, the government wants no competition with their prescribed narratives. They're after Elon, and have many different ways to neuter him. @@frederickheard2022

[@kiddy1992]

Oh bugger off. Tesla didn't invent the solar shingles. They've been used in europe for a decade already with new houses. They just did an Apple and hyper marketed to the uninformed US market who are behind the solar news by like 20 years.

[@Brent1701-D]

Nice video, I spent 59k on my 12kw system before tax credit in 2021. Hybrid system. Qcell panels with enphase micro inverters, Tesla gateway, two powerwalls, and separate EV 60amp breaker box and Tesla wall charger. Spent 9k on new asphalt roof. It's saving me 2k a year but still have to pay during the winter months. This was a partner installer in Michigan that Telsa works with. I really like the combo solution this company provided. I feel like I have the best of both worlds. Tesla software is amazing and the integration with the car is really nice. Charge on Solar feature is great in the summer to fully utilize production.

[@kyleo1236]

I don't have solar but have contemplated it. I would definitely go with standard panels. My house faces North so you wouldn't even see them from the road. I would want to set up my solar system to be seperate from the grid but I would keep the panel that is tied to the grid for one circuit to charge the batteries if they got below a safe level. So all the house circuits would be fed from the solar/batteries exclusively.

[@budsan]

7KW with 10KWh of battery would cost here 12.000€ on my country. It's still hard to believe these crazy prices from USA :O

[@BLKMGK4]

Laboir and insane profits. They make the permitting and inspection a PITA enough that most people hire it out and there's few enough doing it they charge crazy rates. My system in rural VA compared to a near identical system in Florida was close to double the price. Why? Competition in Florida vs here where few companies operate. I look forward to moving South and nearly off the grid soon!

[@Superz3ro]

Pharmaceuticals in the US are double to quadruple, if not more too in the US, so it is not very surprising… Americans are use to being taken advantage of by the system or corporations… 🤔

[@CelebrityLyrics]

$153K for Tesla vs $133K. It's a no brainer in my opinion. Tesla's look much nicer and would probably bring up the home value a lot more. Plus you get 27.6 kW vs 17.2 kW as you mentioned and twice more battery storage. I think it's absolutely worth it for additional 20K. I guess not even $20K after EV credit.

[@diamondgrape543]

@@CelebrityLyrics I have no idea why his solar system cost so much. I'm in Canada, we signed a contract recently for a 12.5kw system (25 500W panels with Enphase IQ8H). Total cost is $31k CAD after tax. So around 23k USD. We will be using net metering instead of batteries (we have generator backup). System for us should be net zero.

[@Birdofgreen]

He is comparing a new, metal roof with solar panels against a new, solar roof. Highly misleading comparison. He also paid an insane amount for both the roof and the solar panels. Quoted around $30,000 for a 25kw system not long ago and a roof replacement with shingles would be in the $20-$30k range not $70-$80k range. Reality is the solar roof will EASILY cost 2-3x as much.

[@HEVTech1]

$90-$180k investment that takes years to pay for itself is a BAD investment. Imagine making 7% on that money by investing it. You would double your money in 10 years and have $180-360k and ZERO repairs/maintenence. ^This is why more people dont do solar, it just doesnt math.

[@waltertoki1]

This was a terrific video. I have 9.1 kw Solar panels installed on my San Francisco house since Sept 2023. This cost $21K after tax credit. I estimate that I will get an average of 3 hours effective sunlight so I should get ~10,000 kWh per year. I am grandfathered into full NET metering from PGE and they charge nearly $0.50 per kWh. I drive a Tesla and I plan to install a ducted heat pump for my house so all my energy costs will be fully covered.

[@MonsieurKerry]

Consulting with the solar installers and a roofing company, I have been told that it is very possible to install a metal roof section - so that ONLY the portion of the roof under the solar panels is metal, while the rest can be asphalt (as long as you can accept those asthetics...) so you can save some $$$$$ that way

[@erik7853]

Its still pretty expensive, here i can get 36 560wp solar panels with all the cables and roof mounting gear for €7200, an 15.6kw deye inverter (sol ark eu equivalent)for €2000, 4x15kwh lifepo4 48v for €10k/ that makes like 19.2k or 21k USD. not including labour but that woul likely add around 6k USD

[@jfolz]

If memory serves correctly 15 kWp cost roughly 30k installed --- back in 2011 that is.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

He's also living in one of the most expensive places to live in the US. McDonald's workers where I'm at in the US, start at $16 an hour.

[@xiaowei1]

Solar in the US is really expensive. In Australia I have a 13.2kw system for a total cost of just under $8000 ($5223 US) installed about 5 years ago after rebates. I'm installing a single 13.6kw battery which will cost $7,000 ($4,570 US) after rebates. The rebates for the solar are falling year on year, and would still be about $4,600 ($3,000 US) for a similar system today though the same size system after those rebates is now less than $7,000 ($4,570 US). The battery rebates are new, and will be $3,000 ($1,958 US). Of note, i can book in and have another 6.6kw to 10kw installed within a couple of weeks, as the red tape was solved a long time ago. The rebates on the batteries are more complicated due to the applying for rebates process (about 4 weeks), but they can also be installed fairly quickly. So for $15,000 (9,793 US), you can get a 13.2kw system with a single 13.6kw battery system all fully installed. As for a new roof, some quick research shows it's about $80 ($52 US) to $120 ($78 US) per m2.

[@rba42]

This is exacly what is so remarkable to me. I paid 3,500 euro for my 4 kWh system. Of course it's not as much as the 17 kWh, but still if you multiply by 4, you're nowhere near the 55.000 dollar. And the 3.500 euro includes panels, installation, wiring, additional switchbox and an inverter.

[@xiaowei1]

@@rba42 yes, mine was completely installed too for the $8,000 Australian, and now its even cheaper with less of a rebate. I don't understand why it is so expensive in one of the biggest markets in the world. Perhaps this is something Matt can do a video on, because it makes no sense to me.

[@_digifish]

Yup. Same reaction. I paid $11,500 AUD ( 7,501 USD ) for a 7.7 kW system - 6 kW Sunny Boy inverter and Sunpower Maxeon 3 panels 2 years ago. Something is badly wrong with the US market.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

He's also living in one of the most expensive areas in the country.

[@DPowered2]

There is a push in the US to not allow renewables to replace too much of other methods as well as profit motive getting in the way of progress

[@AgentGold-AI]

00:00 🎬 Intro to Tesla Solar Roofs & Personal Curiosity 00:28 🏠 Comparison between two homes - with and without Solar Roof 01:01 🤝 Sponsor message from Incogni 01:08 🥊 Introducing Matt and Paul's solar setups 01:26 📊 Detailed specs of Paul’s Tesla Solar Roof setup 01:58 🤔 Reasoning behind Paul and Matt's solar choices 02:26 🔄 Paul's challenges with roof shape and solar coverage 02:55 ⚖ Efficiency discussion of Tesla Solar Tiles vs. Standard Panels 03:35 🔌 Paul’s reason for choosing Tesla - Roofing needs & EV integration 03:58 🔐 Sponsor revisit - Importance of online privacy with Incogni 05:04 🤷 Why Matt did not choose Tesla Solar Roof 05:22 💼 Concerns over product lifespan & support 06:01 👨‍💼 Matt's concerns over being an early adopter for Solar Shingles 06:37 🔨 Installation ease and aesthetics of metal roofs with standard solar panels 06:56 🕒 Discussing potential Tesla customer service and timing issues 07:17 🛠 Avoidance strategies for roofing delays 07:43 📝 Paul's Tesla installation experience and minor issues 09:05 📜 Permitting challenges and installation delays 09:29 💸 Comparison of costs for Tesla Solar Roof and Powerwalls 10:33 🏠 Roof Types and Their Costs 11:03 ☀ Solar Array Sizes and Battery Storage Comparison 11:23 💵 Federal Solar Tax Credit Impact 11:59 🔌 Net Metering and Energy Savings Complexity 12:35 🛠 Custom Solutions for Electrical, Storage, and EV Charging Needs 13:24 📅 Energy Needs and Production in Different Seasons 13:46 ❓ Where are the Tesla Solar Roofs? 14:29 🌞 Availability and Cost of Solar Options 15:29 📘 Guide to Achieve Energy Security with Solar 15:50 🐛 Reporting Software Bugs to Tesla 16:41 🤔 Deciding Between Tesla Solar Roof vs. Standard Solar Panels Key Moments by Agent Gold AI

[@DanielRadcliffe-y3g]

You are a king, sir.

[@EdwardRomano]

Your concerns about Tesla are valid. I'm very happy with my solar roof, but had a bunch of issues with the install. The fact that I was building a home seemed to make things worse. One example: Tesla had trouble committing to a date without seeing the exact locations of penetrations, for a roof not built yet. In the end I had to pay for a regular roof...and then rip it off 6 months later. I was locked in on cheaper pricing from years prior, so it was still worth it. I'm sure they are getting better, but don't assume the roof replacement savings are there just yet (especially for new construction)

[@terryblumenstein]

Live in Florida in a gated community. We are required to replace with tile and Tesla is approved as well. Received Tesla quote a couple of years ago. Was not comfortable with the sales and under enthusiasm. Having tile replaced as I type. Solar company placed brackets on membrane after original tile removed. Getting an 11.6 kWh system - tier 1 with 29 Silfab 400 watt panels, micro inverters, 3 Enphase 5kWh IQ Battery 5P and also added 2 Easy Start AC system Soft Start Devices due to heavy use of AC in Florida. Electricity is not as expensive here versus other states, but with the need for a new roof, knowing we are staying in this house, the increase in hurricanes (considered a back up generator for a hot second), 30% tax credit, net metering in Florida and helping the environment, it was time.

[@Bobrogers99]

All I know is what I read on the Internet, and my impression is that the Tesla equipment is in frequent contact with company mainframes, and that if there is a prolonged widespread outage and internet fails, after a period of time the Tesla system will shut itself down. So to me, there's an issue of control. I would also have a concern about repair and replacement of equipment if Tesla should suspend their roofing business. Standard solar panels and equipment are more likely to maintain availability.

[@MarcSpctr]

That is not how it works. Just cause there is no Internet access it doesn't mean the Tesla cars will refuse to turn on or the Solar will refuse to produce electricity. Like wtf ???? That is valid for products that need to be turned on/off remotely and goes through companies servers to do so. Like IoT devices. In which case they will not work. Like Automated Lights/Cooling, etc if not made sure to run Offline, they will stop working if internet goes out. Not the Car or Solar Panels.

[@Bobrogers99]

@@MarcSpctr Good to know.

[@Real_MisterSir]

For mass adoption it's still one very simple issue: upfront cost vs long term benefit. I know literally everyone in my family want to install solar for years- but no one has done it yet. And everyone I talk to have the same sentiment: upfront cost is way too high, and change in market in the future makes it so people don't see it as a big investment. You may throw down 100k for solar on your roof, but it actually won't add long term value to your house because if you decide to sell it in 5-10 years, chances are things have become much cheaper/better by then, so your heavy investment is now more a burden than a benefit. Every single time, people who want solar hear the upfront cost, and get immediately discouraged. Pricing vs efficiency just is not there, and it's been fairly stagnant for almost 10 years now which is crazy to think about. I mean, we aren't really much further now, than we were in 2016, at least from an individual citizen perspective. Solar is still extremely expensive and not that efficient, it still has very long-term break even potential, and it's still something extra you add to your home where you have to consider reliability and maintenance/tech support if things don't work as intended. Just a lot of extra steps to commit to something that to many people doesn't even make financial sense in the first place. For solar to be relevant, there needs to be much bigger government incentive to provide tax credits for green adjustment of energy on a personal level rather than just mass grid level. Solar needs to be cheaper, the end.

[@kkon5ti]

That is a USA problem though. Elsewhere people dont move as much, and also have way cheaper options for solar. It‘s so cheap that 1 kWh of solar power costs about 0,02-0,03€ (if it were sold at its own price)

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@kkon5ti I'm not from the US tho, and I have family/friends in over a dozen different countries both in NA, Europe, and Middle East. Everyone say the same. Upfront cost vs long term gain just isn't beneficial, it's financially more sound to just invest that money into something that actually grows in value, rather than the opposite.

[@madcow3417]

FYI my 10kW Tesla Powerwall+ overloaded and shut down because a 500W gas furnace's blower motor turned on. That's what their tech support told me. A 2000W UPS never had a problem with it. Powerwall is NOT recommended.

[@marceldiezasch6192]

500w? Lol, my cheap DYI setup can handle a 4,8 kW load off of battery power. That's pretty standard if you use BYD batteries.

[@LianJim]

In Malaysia, we roughly pay for Rm17k (4k USD) for 4kw system. It’s for roof and inverter. We don’t need battery because we’re selling out electricity back to grid, offsetting our bills.

[@BleakPy]

I live in South America and the only solution I have is how you did it. With what is available in the local market I was able to have the panels, the inverter and batteries, from different brands but that work well together. We do not have a tax credit or connection to the electrical grid, so the only way to mitigate the cost is by reducing the electrical consumption of the grid.

[@Johannesvogell]

I am impressed how expensive solar power in the USA is. I have paid 20.000 € for 9,66 kW and a small battery in Germany.

[@marceldiezasch6192]

Yup and your contractor still easily made a 6k profit for ~40 man-hours of work. 150 an hour isn't bad for a handyman, lol. Now imagine how much the contractors in his video made...

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

He's also living in one of the most expensive places in the US.

[@_liminor]

if it takes a public person reporting on a bug x 2 -- it's not a good sign imo

[@Marti-234]

It probably wasn't a bug, considering it's Tesla we are talking about.

[@lyledal]

Holy cow, these costs are eye watering! Paul's setup cost as much as an entire house in a whole lot of places. Your setup would be a good chunk of an entire house though. Essentially, normal folks aren't going to be getting anything like these setups anytime soon. Ha! And that was Pauls *downsized* home? Love it!

[@timblanche4153]

The cost of standard solar panels (incl. installation) in North America is rediculous. For example a medium sized 10KW system *installed* in Australia costs around $10K AUD (or about 0.58c USD / watt). And that's before any government rebates. The panel markup and labor cost the installers charge in North America is extortionate.

[@alihms]

@timblanche4153 USD580 per 1kW is very cheap. Does this price include storage batteries as well? I am in Malaysia and recently installed mine at equivalent rate of USD 786 per 1kW (no batteries - sell excess power to grid).

[@Iceeeen]

@@timblanche415310k aud = 6k €That's around what I payed for a 9kw system 2 years back as DIY in europe. Panel prices have dropped significant since then. Would probably be able to do the install for 1-2k€ less today.. No way in h'*ll I pay the prices announced in this video, nor for solar roof or the small battery's. For couple of grand and you can get a used examplebig leaf battery and hook it up to the inverter, software is on github how to.

[@thecocktailian2091]

Well, Matts system is premium with batteries. You could easily cut that in half by just installing a more basic system with nearly the same kw.

[@andrewt9204]

Just his solar panels and batteries cost exactly as much as my single home rambler... wild.

[@cfm6229]

I want a tesla solar roof, But the dominos dont work here ! 1)HOA wont allow shiny roofs. 2) the cost of grid power is about 11 cents kwh. 3) the local grid company doesnt do favorable payback plan. 4) my roof is 50 square but very broken up in shapes and angles. 5) being retirees we have set income and the prices are overwhelming! Having been a roofer 40 yrs would help normally but not here! thanks for your videos! They're fun to watch and have good fair amount information!

[@EatonZ26]

On Tesla's website I priced out my house using Tesla Solar roof and Tesla Solar panels....the cost difference is massive even between the two Tesla products...

[@i3looi2]

I`m not sure wth are those material prices in US. For 155$K you build the whole damn house here in Europe.

[@adrienadrien5940]

Yes seems crazy to me. I did a 10kwc with 10kwh battery DIY installation for less than 25k euros.

[@triforcelink]

They call it ‘land of the free’ because installers are free to charge whatever they want lol

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Wages are often higher in the US as well. The minimum wage is $16 an hour where I'm at in the US. He's also living in one of the most expensive areas of the country.

[@alexwalker2582]

.....my entire house cost $168k.......

[@ThreeLetterChop]

I wish I could get a place at that cost here, hahaha.

[@OceanFrontVilla3]

The house? Or just the whole roof system?

[@alexwalker2582]

@@OceanFrontVilla3 The house. I don't have anything on the roof except regular roof shingles.

[@jaidarling8855]

Tbh I should think it would be also important to include long term cost comparisons such as the comparitive life spans of your respective battery solutions and how much they will cost to replace when that time comes. Also including the life span of your panels to his "shingles" which I would assume have a particular life span of their own and how much that will cost him compared to your replacement costs.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

That would be great info, but nobody knows the real answers.

[@marknielsen8738]

Did you or Paul use a radiant barrier under your metal roofs? I installed a shingle style metal roof almost 15 years ago and the installer almost insisted on it and I'm I glad he did. At the end of the 50 year warranty my roof will be as good as the day it was installed while my neighbors will be on their 3rd or 4th standard roofs.

[@DylanCyr]

The reason I didn't end up doing it is because of the issues with the install crews. Also in New England but I heard terrible things about their reliability and such. Ultimately I went with a PPA, which will cost me more in the long term vs buying, but only after about 15 years.

[@jonl6547]

The return on investment at 107,000 dollars if you say you spend about 1000.00 a year on electricity it would take 107 years to break even, now I know this doesn’t include electricity buy back and variables on usage and weather etc. but it doesn’t look to appealing and remember if 1 EMP bomb were to detonate in this area it would fry all the electric equipment instantly and make all those panels and power walls useless😢

[@limbeboy7]

Just like smart TVs, just wait 4 yrs and they'll all be 11k - 30k

[@TinkerTry]

Unfortunately, adequate HVAC for summer and winter costs far more than that per year here in New England. Based on our history, my wife and I would spend $100K in about 15 years on utilities and gas and natural gas for our home and cars, so we chose this route instead.

[@senhalil]

That bug not getting fixed for everyone one all at once, or making a come back is very "convenient"...

[@13minutestomidnight]

Yeah it is convenient...but it's also completely realistic for software bugs. You wouldn't be able to tell if it was sloppy programming, a random mistake, or intentional. It could be any of them and there's not enough information to judge that (as far as I know, but I could be wrong).

[@destroya3303]

What a convenient "bug" for Tesla

[@sanctusletum8522]

Never contribute to malice that which can be attributed to spaghetti code.

[@GeorgeBP81]

I really like the esthetics of the Tesla roof, and I would also like to see it used as an external envelope of the house walls themselves. But of course this means that the price would have to significantly reduce and probably add a cellular antenna/amplifier/repeter to the house because you would be living inside a Faraday cage.

[@annamariaisland1960]

One thing that stands out with the two houses discussed in this video is the lack of trees near the houses. Yes, I know that shade decreases the effectiveness of roof solar systems, but I wonder how many trees were cut down to allow the roof system, or indeed to build the house. It's not going to do the world much good if the eastern part of the US goes solar by eliminating large tracts of tree cover and their CO2 sequestering abilities. A better solution than homeowner systems is a national policy where solar power is generated in the west, and perhaps transferred and stored where it is needed.

[@tjm3900]

Not a word about pay back time !

[@TkachenkoArtem]

you are reserving a place in heaven for the whole family 😊

[@brianharries]

Why is ‘payback time’ such a consideration in these projects, when it is never considered when purchasing a car, a household appliance, or even a holiday? ……… not to speak of the 1,000’s of gallons of gas consumed by your vehicle. 🤔. Surely motivation for the purchase is the consideration here 🤷🏻‍♂️!

[@marceldiezasch6192]

Probably never or pretty damn close. I built my 12 kW installation with a 10 kWh battery myself at a total cost of 15k and it will still take around 8 years to ROI. So if it takes me this long at $1.25 per watt and they paid $4 and $3.22 per watt, doing pretty much anything else with that money would've been smarter.

[@knowname7289]

@@brianharries because 120k gets a lot of electricity?

[@tjm3900]

@@brianharries manufacturing these product is not without an environmental impact.

[@maryhadda8420]

These people talking about spending $100k upgrading their houses, while I have no hope of buying a house at all.

[@shin4655]

to those people haven't watch. 13:55 - this will save you time from all the bla bla bla.

[@mosler302]

I'm in California where energy is twice as costly as anywhere else in America. I installed my own panels, inverters, & batteries. I'm still doing some tweeking & upgrading since this is all new technology for me. I'm producing a little under 20kwh per day, depending on sun/clouds. Nobody in the neighborhood can see my panels because my south facing roof faces the backyard. So far the materials cost was $19k. I wish I'd waited to take my 30% federal credit until I finished tweeking because the changes I want to make are going to be another $6-8k. But being retired, the combined federal credit & lower tax bracket gave me a tax refund of $18k, almost completely covering my cost. Cool! I have a ground-mounted solar tracker that needs to be installed still, & will carry 6 panels putting out somewhere between 5-10 kwh per day according to the manufacturer. We'll see. My utility has already had outages, & it's nice to have power anyway. One extra tidbit... we tend to think the best days for solar are 100% sunny. Not so. Partial cloudy is the best because the solar lens effect kicks on with those clouds & my panels crank out far more than on sunny days. I was afraid of exceeding the voltage limit for my inverters, but was told it was OK by the mfg.

[@LeonardHoffer]

We had 31 REC Alpha Pure 405 w modules added onto our standing seam metal roof. It uses a SolarEdge 11.4 w inverter. 15,400 kWh produced and 6000 kWh used last year. We have a GeoComfort 3 ton ground source heat pump. Just a great combination with the two systems.

[@alexandergunda8916]

It is interesting how much more it costs, in the US vs. Europe, to put PV on your roof. The best and economic way still remains DIY.

[@desistang8794]

The simple answer is the cost difference, which is gigantic. Additionally, for a solar roof, you have to do the whole house, whereas with solar panels, you can buy more or less depending on your needs. You can also play with the math regarding the number of batteries if you live in a place where you get a lot of sun. For example, my battery is 100% full by 11 am here in Houston during summer.

[@stevenb.2830]

Hi Matt! Thank you for the thought provoking. I've been looking at both systems and it's the cost that scares me. 2 questions: 1) is that you have a smaller array but have the same size battery storage system, why? Is it to save money on the solar panels? 2) How much money do you expect to recoup from net metering? I live in MA and electricity price is high @ $133K system / $7.2k electricity annual cost = 18-1/2 yr break even costs. This exculedes any tax breaks because I don't get a physical check from the IRS as a tax break. I'm still making a monthly payment on the system.

[@WillemAsselbergs]

Standard. I'm currently extending from 25 to 40 panels on my end. After a year of use, with a Tesla at the house, it is clear I need a bit more juice. Pretty straight forward adjustment, but installer and permitting challenges once again of course. Great video again Matt. Thanks for sharing.

[@graysonsmith7031]

I was really interested in Tesla's solar roof, but after finding out about hybrid photovoltaic-thermal panels those are my new favorite. They increase the efficiency of the PV while generating such inordinate amounts of heat energy that installers recommend only a portion of your panels be hybrids since they can overwhelm just about any use case for that heat.

[@erikkuhlemeyer9402]

Buy eco-worthy’s 1500 dollar solar tracker. On a light day produce 5000wayts of power. Take 50k of the 107k he spent, buy 34 solar trackers. Average 175kw of production a day. Use the other 57k that’s left to buy eco flows 90kw battery system as well as the mppt and converters required. Never run out of solar. Literally ever. While in understand that it would require an acre or 2 to set up. The excessive cost for these roofs with little production just don’t make sense at the moment. It’s more of a statement to your neighbors than actually getting off grid.

[@alishatruman]

Enphase is my choice. 1) Individual micro-inverters. 2) The ability to use your solar system when the grid is down. 3) Simultaneous battery storage and gas back up generator that can charge your battery at night. 4) Plus they have the ability to use your EV as another additional back up power source.

[@petercrizer6102]

We have a 50 panel 17.6 KW system on the shore of CT, and love it so far, (a little under two years, so I don't have enough hard data to offer true numbers, IMOHO), two Tesla batteries.

[@TheTrinitygroup]

The cost of new panels has reduced dramatically here in the U.K., I have seen 570w tiger JA solar panels at £110 each, so 22800watts of panels would be £4400 ( $5555 US ) so off grid set ups that can be done DIY with help from You Tube etc, that do not require qualified contractors seems the most logical way, yes you lose feed In tariffs, but it would reduce cost’s of purchase and installation dramatically.