Underneath: Angel 5x17 Reaction

[@PWGregory]

"Everyday you sit behind your desk and you learn a little more on how to accept the world the way it is. Well here’s the rub, heroes don’t do that. Heroes don’t accept the world the way it is, they fight it.”

[@parkerboy795]

The sad truth in that those words have been relevant for a long time.

[@Talisguy]

More relevant now than ever.

[@DudeLongcouch]

I love the consistency of the writing in this show. When Lindsey left in season 2, the last thing he said to Angel was, "The key to Wolfram & Hart is you have to make them play your game. Don't let them make you play their game." And in season 5, that is the situation Angel has allowed to happen. He accepted their offer because he thought he could change the system from within, but really, all he's been doing is "playing their game." And then here comes Lindsey to remind him that he'll never win that way. Heroes don't accept the world the way it is, they force it to change.

[@unnderneath]

Yes! Love that quote

[@davidgorman994]

I forgot about the Buffy reference to the world with nothing but shrimp

[@artman2oo3]

I wonder what she thought about the world that didn't have any shrimp?

[@JustJayylj]

@@artman2oo3nothing! No reaction whatsoever

[@artman2oo3]

@@JustJayylj Well dang it!

[@artman2oo3]

@@davidgorman994 Since countless species of crab have evolved totally independently of each other, maybe a world with nothing but crab is more plausible.

[@vov.7397]

"I FEEL ATTACKED!" 🤣🤣🤣 So say we all, Dakara, so say we all.

[@SilentBob731]

9:55 One of the best comedic moments in the whole series.🤜🫀🩸😱🤣 12:50 The pleasant calm in Hamilton's voice is so different than every other character I've seen Adam Baldwin play. Real solid Actor, less sure about the man himself. 14:03 Lindsey dropping a Truth Bomb right here...and it's only gotten more accurate over the years. The rich and powerful run the show and the rest of us just run for scraps.

[@SilentBob731]

1:47 HA! I just posted Spike's "I'm listening....with beer" gif on a BlueSky comment earlier today. We are definitely in The Matrix.🤔🤣🍻 3:04 Hey, it's Jayne Cobb, the hero of Canton! (Deadpool Voice: These timelines are so confusing) 🙃😁 4:58 Wesley was already in my Top 5 BuffyVerse characters, but I it might have been this arc the landed him the #3 spot (behind only Willow and Spike). Especially that joke.🥃😢 6:43 This "pocket dimension" deal is a great idea and provides a bit of macabre levity in an extremely heavy episode.

[@GJS2183]

R.I.P. You innocent soul, even though there's nothing left of you anymore! 💔 Welcome to the team, Blue Thunder! And Lindsey! 🎉

[@luckyrobinshomestead]

It's never simple. Looking forward to the next one. I really like the run up to the end now. I love the world with nothing but shrimp. That's where all the shrimp from Anya's world without shrimp went.

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

17:26 The Senior Partners are not the powers to be. The Powers to Be are basically the higher beings, not the demons of old. The big bad of Season 4 was a Fallen higher being - but she was the only being of that side of existance that has appeared in Buffy or Angel so far.

[@ace360]

😂 "Im listening with beer" lmao Priceless, - Spike and Oh boy he's here!!!!! Adam lol before Firefly and Chuck he was The Villain, This quote Lindsey has I can't tell you how Epic it is it "Hero's don't accept the the way the world they Fight it" and fun fact during one of James and me chat it's on a panel somewhere but when Spike gets shot James was in charge of The Squid's Stunt 🎯 If he didn't turn as fast as he did David and the rest would have Died! They packed why to much explosives in he's trench coat so Everyone lucked out 🙏 Great reaction and review as always Dakara stay awesome 🤘

[@jayjordan9582]

Yes, Angel took this job to save his son, but saving Connor, saving his mind, would be costly & I'm not sure Angel considered that. This season of Angel is so brilliant because it reminds me of a very old saying, "the devil is in the details", and you can see it happening as Angel starts out in the first episode this season killing clients & taking a hard line against the evil at Wolfram & Hart before everyone, the team included, has been telling him that he has to accept some bad to do the most good. It reminds me of the last conversation between Kate & Angel, when Angel told Kate "if nothing that we do matters, then the only thing that matter is what we do." Angel losing Cordy & Conner & now Fred, even Darla, I think is very important as isolation can make you so much more vulnerable to manipulation. As strange as it might sound, I think it's important Angel remembers Angelus, as he excelled as screwing with peoples minds, and that might help him get a leg up on Wolfram & Hart. Hope you're having a great week Dakara & that you're weekend is even better. Thanks for the great reaction.

[@Buffy8Fan]

Suburbs is a penalty and punishment. Seems right. The actors who played Gunn and Lindsay were competing over who could do the scene of dialogue that they had that was the same. No idea who one or how they decided. It was all in good fun anyway from what the audio commentary said. I like the idea of living life being _the_ apocalypse. How W&H structured what Angel did this season is everything they had been trying to do since S1. Angel has been losing since he agreed to try to fight the bad buy from inside. It's a great concept that ties a lot of story together and doesn't get much credit for doing so.

[@zemoxian]

It also makes me wonder if every apocalypse that Buffy and Angel have thwarted worked in Wolfram & Hart’s favor? Or if they would have stopped it if it wasn’t? It’s like that line about how they’ve stopped more plagues than they’ve caused. Have they been stopping apocalypses that get in their way?

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@zemoxian I see W&H as I see the human bad guy in Disney's Gargoyles. Even when losing they take away a win of some sort the heroes don't realize. That's why there stronger than Illyria remembers.

[@rfresa]

Lindsey's hell reminds me of the planet Camazotz from A Wrinkle In Time.

[@itsreeeshaaa7560]

Marcus welcomes Spike to the team. Spike has come a very long way. Still my favorite character!

[@NvardQueen]

you are seriously in my top 3 buffyverse reactors ever. keep it up!!!

[@jasonsumner3386]

It's sad we did not get a sixth season but it's great and kind of a small miracle we got five seasons of a spin off of a show of Buffy which was a replacement of a show that got cancelled LOL.

[@martophrenia]

cliffhanger ending is very poetic tho. the good work is never done

[@killianlpc]

What another incredible episode Underneath was. There is just so much going on it's almost impossible to pick apart. Angel discovers Lindsay is in some form of Hell Dimension and they kind of reluctantly have to free him from it after Eve tells them were he is. Eve of course terrified of the sharp suited Marcus Hamilton ( yes in later years Jayne Cobb from Firefly ). We also have Illyria realising that she has no army or followers, and her interactions with Wesley are so well observed, as Wes is now drinking heavily and sliding into deep depression for unimaginable grief. When Angel, Gunn and Spike arrive at the house they are surprised by Lindsay's so called wife and family setup. We of course see the fear Lindsay has of the basement when he has to go for bulbs knowing he will be forever tortured. Interesting 'Groundhog Day' like scene when Lindsay goes to collect the newspaper every morning in the idyllic alternative reality. When the wife opens up with the automatic weapon in the kitchen, and then the son, and the ice cream van and neighbours, it was just like the scene from Hot Fuzz in the village where everyone is tooled up with all sorts of weapons firing everywhere. Once Hamilton takes over from Eve we just know there is going to be trouble. Lindsay tells them that it is 'the' apocalypse, and says 'two soldiers down' as Gunn is still in the hell dimension and Fred gone too. Just imperious writing building up to the Finale in the best Season of The Buffyverse. Best line in this is Lorne again saying nobody can fake it through The Pina Colada song, just hilarious

[@marclewis5505]

8:47 I thought I was the only one who does that Dakara.😁

[@jameshenner5831]

Hell... the suburbs.

[@michelleicome5542]

Commenting for the algorithm

[@GeneBateman1970]

love your new look, reminds me of Natalie Dormer

[@menachemsalomon]

You think you're not making sense? Here's what I'm getting from you: It's been a heavy season and a difficult watch, meaning that it's not just "watch for fun", it makes you feel very deeply and think hard about life, the universe (and everything). About serious topics, like atonement, and how something you see in the show might reflect back on your own life. I like to use the word _appreciate_ instead of _enjoy_ sometimes. I like how it's written, and I like that it makes me think, though I might not enjoy how it makes me feel. So thanks, milady, for watching and sharing your reaction.

[@TenebrousFilms]

A fun one... uh, did you *not* recognise the Baldwin that plays Jayne in Firefly? Maybe it's because he's shaved in this one.

[@jasonsumner3386]

When she watched this episode I don't think she had watched Firefly.

[@TenebrousFilms]

​@@jasonsumner3386 Ah, that would explain it.

[@kingbrutusxxvi]

I've never particularly been a Gunn fan but I think he's getting attacked unfairly. Yes, he made a deal to get his "mental abilities" up to snuff, and knew there would be consequences, but he couldn't have ever guessed what would happen. Every time Wesley and Angel berate him I think they're being very hypocritical. They've both done terrible things in the past with the intention that they would find a way to counteract the outcome. Obviously Gunn wouldn't have made the deal it he'd even thought that one of them would be killed.

[@menachemsalomon]

Hey, look, it's Jayne, the man they call Jayne... And he's a Terminator. And he just wants you to sign on the dotted line. I think they're depiction of what a superior, god-like being like Ilyria might think of humans and humanity is nicely done. It doesn't mesh with my theology (in which humans are, in a way, superior to angels), but it's reasonable enough to make the story work, and well written.

[@Tammy-c1f]

I really hope you watch Dollhouse, it's so good and you will LOVE the cast!

[@adoreandu-reactions-b5h]

The thing about Gunn's action, is kinda like people who vote for... certain politicians... thinking that the actions of said politicians won't hurt the people they love, only strangers. They didn't care about the "other" people who they _knew_ would get hurt, until it hit them personally. And they _should_ feel bad about it. They should also be able to learn and find redemption and blah blah blah

[@parkerboy795]

I get what you mean, but chances are Gunn was just saying that because of guilt.

[@menachemsalomon]

I appreciate your sensitivity in being non-specific about politicians.

[@adoreandu-reactions-b5h]

@@menachemsalomon just an impossible riddle, innit?

[@adoreandu-reactions-b5h]

@ 🤷‍♀

[@menachemsalomon]

@ It means I can appreciate the thought and kind of agree with you in the abstract, without resorting to feeling defensive over "my team" or having to disagree with how you're applying your idea. Much more conducive to civilized conversation. (Despite a slightly flippant tone, I am being entirely sincere. And I realize I could well be wrong about which politicians you meant, and it doesn't matter.)

[@pixy-onewing]

❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍

[@opheliabelleu8025]

Jayne! 🙂

[@jasonsumner3386]

Animal Mother! 😉

[@angiepeterson3547]

The ptb are no more than playing with an ant farm. The WRH Partners like to burn the ants with a magnifying glass. Just my opinion. 😜

[@jcarterla]

Doyle: Dead, Cordy: Dead, Fred: Dead, Wesley: Throat Slashed, Gunn: Lost Everything, Lorne: Nightclub Massacre. Working for Angel seems like bad idea.

[@alexh8613]

Season 5 is interesting. It like the writers didn't know where they wanted to go with it. First you think that they are going somewhere with Lyndsey. Then that storyline takes a backseat. Then you think they are going to be going somewhere with Illyria. But then she becomes a side plot with Wesley. Then all of a sudden, they realized that they had to end the series and had no big bad for Angel to fight. So they kind of did a compilation of all the side villains from the last couple of episodes. Have the Archduke be the leader and have them be a secret society that has been running everything at Wolfram & Hart all along. Don't get me wrong, it was a fun storyline, but them getting cancelled definitely made them scramble for an ending

[@rpottage]

The Powers That Be aren’t working with the Senior Partners but they’re also not the good guys. All their actions were to bring about Jasmine and once she was on earth the PTB stopped helping Team Angel. They’re against the Senior Partners in the same way that The First was; just three different groups each trying to bring about their chosen apocalypse.

[@davidmeadows5627]

That's not true. They ARE the good guys. Jasmine went rogue and the Powers sent Darla to talk some sense into Connor to stop Jasmine from being born. Jasmine rebelled against the Powers. That's why the Powers had to make it up to Cordelia by helping out Angel this season before she passed on.

[@MrSupertallblackman]

It wasn't the Powers actions that brought about Jasmine. It was Jasmine's actions.

[@rpottage]

@ Everything the PTB did was to create Connor and Jasmine. There’s a reason why the only help post-jasmine you can point to is them letting letting Cordy help Angel when she dies and it’s because they don’t help. They basically do nothing because everything was in service of their apocalypse. Look at their help. Whistler and Doyle who serve to get Angel on his path. Blocking the sun; to keep Angel alive. The visions, which serve to get Angel on his path but don’t warn him about Darla. Swallowing time to make him a vampire with a soul again but not swallowing time to save Doyle since that means Cordy gets the visions. Skip; who serves to get Cordy on her path then tries to stop them from interfering with Jasmine. Transferring the visions to Cordy but not anyone else; to get Cordy on her path. Making Cordy a power; so Jasmine can body jack her. And then? The one apology that was used to get Angel back on track and help fight the Senior Partners. But nothing else. And maybe they sent Darla, maybe. It also could’ve been the first. But if it were the PTB that wouldn’t be them helping because, as Darla says, it has to be Connor’s choice so it’s still just setting the stage for Jasmine. That’s why the PTB “owed” Cordelia, because they used her; not because someone else used her. Remember; as Skip points out everything that happened to them; Cordelia getting the vision, Lorne leaving Pylea, Fred going to Pylea, Gunn’s sister dying, Wesley sleeping with Lilah, Angel sleeping with Darla; it was all manipulated. And as Angel points out the last couple of times he went to the powers for help they made clear they weren’t in the business; and there’s no way the Powers didn’t know what was happening, they didn’t stop it because they didn’t want to.

[@parkerboy795]

I think the Powers are very hands off. They let people choose for themselves, but offer some guidance along the way.

[@Talisguy]

The Powers that Be are God as seen by a writer who believes that life has no inherent meaning and that life is, quite evidently, not fair. They're hands-off to the point of either being largely useless or entirely unknowable. If Jasmine was their plan all along, they could just be more hands-on and get more directly involved. Her being rogue makes much more sense. An interventionist and evil PTB would have the motive to act differently in a bunch of cases, a "mysterious ways" PTB and a rogue power who thinks they should actually _do_ things would have things play out as they did.