Understanding Demand Avoidance in Autism - Why Autistic People May Struggle with Certain Tasks

[@Samdegraff]

Back when I was young, me and my mother had a heated argument, and once I had cooled down I planned on apologizing. M father then demanded I go and apologize so i couldn't. I told him: "The fact that you asked me to apologize makes it impossible for me to because now it's not apologizing because I wanted to, but because you told me to, so it's no longer possible for it to be sincere". So yeah. I feel you.

[@margareth1504]

Yea, how can you freely apologise from your genuine own heart,, after someone approaches you with demand and control tactics to make you speak some apology from their perspective. I get your concern, and they could have shown patience for you to process the whole thing and decide the outcome with your own mind. We build ourselves better that way, and when did a forced apology ever feel real. Good luck.

[@tracik1277]

Excellent point.

[@Typanoid]

I'm impressed that you were actually able to explain to your Dad, why his egging you on to apologize didn't work. Back when I lived with my parents, any conflict would just cause my head to get swamped and I wouldn't have known what to say... which was infuriating. So yeah, well done!

[@Samdegraff]

@@Typanoid Thank you. I turn full vulcan sometimes when I'm irritated.

[@Bliss20244]

Imagine autistic kid in preschool, kids fight and argue and teachers are demanding to apologize them constantly, every day 🤦

[@bakerfritz4681]

I think some of it, for me, boils down to resentment. I resent being micromanaged. I resent people who seem to assume I’m not intelligent or aware enough to think of and do the thing that needs to be done. I resent what feels like the constant interruption and derailing of my own planning process by other people, because other people’s version of “help” is not only not helpful, it often makes things more difficult. The resentment, or the anticipation of it, is what seems to cause the neurological pileup and shuts down all the highways.

[@orionkelly]

Great thoughts.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

You articulated that entire feeling extremely well. Yes. Resentment for all those things. 😐 I'm at a new waitressing job, and although I've done this work many times, with each new place comes the fears and inevitable build up of the stress, learning new ways of doing the tasks, and the strange looks on the faces of those around me as I eventually break down if I'm overloaded. Why do I keep doing this to myself? But yeah, if I'm trained well, I don't need as much micromanaging. If the trainer sucks, or people seems generally unhelpful, or I receive multiple ways of doing a thing, that does not compute well with my brain, resentment builds.

[@KarmasAbutch]

Damn I get this so bad and so often … but ADHD though 😵‍💫

[@TheDeborah0101]

Well said and well met. As a planner, with a backup plan for my backup plan, being thwarted from those plans is infuriating because the deal has been meticulously worked out in my head and I know my course of action for the desired outcome. This plan could be for something as simple as an outing for groceries or building a hydroponic garden. Everything I do has a plan attached. Spontaneity is not a welcomed addition.

[@KarmasAbutch]

@@TheDeborah0101 YES! Omg … all of this well-worded wisdom is buried way too deep in a YT comments thread

[@jamaninone2889]

This is so validating. I have always been labelled lazy, difficult, and selfish because of this trait but I genuinely freeze when i feel the pressure of demands on me.

[@maeve615]

* fist bump * My favourite "You need to learn to compete with urgency"

[@gelflingfay]

I find myself unable to have a job because of this. :(

[@giovannamoro8564]

How convenient

[@KatiTheButcher]

@@giovannamoro8564 if you only knew the hell

[@gelflingfay]

@@giovannamoro8564 there NOTHING convenient about the anxiety, self degradation, hatred and disdain from others, and people like you who roll in and think it's all an act. Clearly you learned nothing watching this video.

[@eponymoususer8923]

It’s not about rebellion. It’s about overwhelming anxiety about the process of meeting expectations.

[@ExkupidsMom]

to be fair, I think I am probably also being rebellious, but yes, anxiety is a real factor!

[@louisasmiles]

I'm not sure it's worry. It's kind of a weird one. It's like Opposition defiance disorďer

[@shawnaaustin3396]

@@louisasmilesyes! This is exactly what it is! ODD…which has absolutely nothing to do with autism.

[@michaelhill2933]

Maybe they are yelling cause you're not listening when they said it calmly the first 100 times.

[@bollweevil8112]

Also, rationalizing whether it’s something that needs to be done, or done a certain way in a certain time

[@Dontstopbelievingman]

When people think you're deliberately not doing something that you desperately want to do, but can't due to paralysis, it's really heartbreaking. They feel hurt or angry or frustrated, and you're right there with them.

[@GoAskAlice10TALL]

I an in that state right now. I feel so paralyzed and all I keep hearing is that I don’t want to but that only makes me feel even more debilitated 😥🙏🏽❤️‍🩹

[@normal-about-media1890]

oof. Yea broski that sucks. Executive dysfunction is a prominent trait of both ADHD & Autism!! Good luck tho man

[@stellam461]

Thanks very helpful.

[@zemorph42]

It drove a family member to give me psilocybin mushrooms in an attempt to break it. It seems to be working, but it's only been a few days since then, so, time will tell.

[@sourgreendolly7685]

@@zemorph42Having done them myself- it can make a difference because it changes how we think about things BUT it's not a cure by any means and it's a risky thing to do regularly. Stay safe, Internet stranger 💕

[@Alex-mf3jj]

I have no idea where neurotypical people got the idea that yelling at/guilt tripping/punishing someone is a great way to get them to do something. I have yet to meet a single person who feels motivated to complete a task after being verbally assaulted about it

[@revimfadli4666]

Maybe the ones in charge weren't really the NTs, but "lawful evil" narcissists etc enabled by "lawful neutral" NTs?

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

It worked for my foster parent. But it left me unable to be self-motivated.

[@louhortonsculpture]

Seriously. Had many bosses who seemed to think it was motivational to scream and yell and threaten people. Sure, fear of destitution does motivate people- IF it activates their fight response! The rest of us freeze, fawn, or flee.

[@Window4503]

I think that has more to do with being in a position of power and deficient empathy than anything else. As a neurotypical person who gets yelled at and guilt tripped on occasion, no, it is not motivational at all.

[@lockandloadlikehell]

It worked when training to set a new 110 kg deadlift state record within about a year of first training

[@bbyncrnr5370]

I just sent this to my dad, as we have recently been smashed into the realization that we are on the spectrum. I’m 30, female. He is 60. Our entire lives people have always said how much alike we behaved. How much alike we are. How *different* we are, especially him. He is a lone wolf, he doesn’t mask. He is and always has been unapologetically his true self. So much so, that during social interactions, lots of times people will laugh and assume he is joking when he is being 100% serious and maybe too blunt, or too matter of fact. Maybe blunt enough to the point that the idea that he was being serious made the person so uncomfortable that they force their self to go along like he is being dry/sarcastic/satirical. I sent him this video’ s link and said “watch dis. Let me know if you relate”. He responded a minute later. The response, verbatim: “I will get back to you as I have a hard time doing something somebody demands me to do.“

[@CainXVII]

I find it hard when the expectations are so different for men and women too. I get that I am too negative, can't handle criticism, my being too brusque hurts people's feelings, so on. My male coworker who has kind of the same autistic traits nobody bats an eye at...

[@statickaeder29]

That is excellent. I am sure that my mother was autistic too - but I got my diagnosis at age 40, and she passed away a year ago May (I'm 45 now), so I never got to have that sort of conversation with her. 'm glad that you are getting to with your father.

[@BartzAJohnsonJr]

Oi mate! You’ve done me head in! Ok, that’s enough pretending I’m anything but American. Self-diagnosed ASD(we could say Asperger’s back then) at 40, now 55. This is the same year I’ve discovered ADHD is mixed in there too, but good. I don’t look for videos to confirm any more. I just watch what looks interesting. But I can’t scroll past a title that says DEMAND AVOIDANCE. NOBODY has used that phrase anywhere I have looked or listened. I mean, I do already understand that this, whatever my place on the spectrum is, is a dysfunction of executive function. But you went and described scenarios and feelings…. Maybe I am less obstinate, but emotionally I am roiling! I’ve been through enough self-help that I don’t even get to blame others for my situations. I have hated Sundays this year something fierce! Sweetie works on one of her home improvement projects and I’m over here having another smoke, coffee, and KZbin video. #1 most-hated cliché phrase? Got to be JUST DO IT! Then I do get mad at people but I have nothing to push back with except "it doesn’t work like that!" You’ve got this great smile where I paused the video at the end. Thank you for your enthusiasm and care but you are only getting away with that smile because it’s your subject and I realize how well you understand it. I mean, it’s best you smile so people will like, share, and subscribe. I know you’ve been through pain to get to this point of presenting the subject. I could ramble about sleep issues, trouble with money, chores that I actually enjoy but resist, etc. I am a(n over-)smart guy that can intellectually sort things out and can understand the rewards of tasks completed. But if you expect it of me… So yeah, I have lost work to this and haven’t even understood why. Even now it’s hard to fathom, even as descriptions align with results.

[@recoveringsoul755]

@@CainXVII when a man says no, that's the end of it. But, when a woman says no, it's the beginning of a negotiation. It's exhausting. And so unfair.

[@BlueRidgeBubble]

This video has been very validating I chastise myself so hard when I do this I hate it

[@tmusa2002]

One of my favorite sayings: “When I say I’ll do something, I’m going to do it. I don’t need to be reminded every six months.” 😆

[@orionkelly]

😆

[@loverainthunder]

😭😂😭😭😂😂😂 Too funny 😁 😂.

[@beccismith4454]

😂

[@tnijoo5109]

I love that!!! ❤️ brilliant! And so funny! 😂😂😂

[@napadave58]

Jesus that is one of the funniest one-liners I've ever heard. Thanks for that one. It also fits like a glove. I do all this shit too. If I want to do it, but my wife reminds me between "I want to do it" and "when I do it", I have a f@#% of a time doing it and often, as this dude says, sometimes it seems impossible.

[@jonaw.2153]

This is why I burnt out of college! I thought I'd just grown lazy, or worse: not cut out for college! This genuinely surprises and reliefs me

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Ditto. I did college for a while the failed a whole semester. I then did some more college then failed a whole semester. Then I went back in my mid 20’s, did fine for a semester, then failed a whole semester. All because I just stopped doing anything. An “A” student in any semester that I was able to do the work, but just couldn’t make it to class/exams in certain semesters.

[@linda_sue]

@@johnathanrhoades7751 It's a very confused helplessness, to not understand 'why we're doing it'.

[@_JustJoe]

​@@johnathanrhoades7751 This is why I dropped out of highschool. I got all A's just couldn't do it... because I was told to.

[@justsomebloke6784]

I've developed a system of circling in towards tasks, where I carry out small incremental preparations for jobs I need to do so that when I feel ok to get on with the main part, I am not starting from scratch. I'm lucky in my living circumstances that I can do this because I have a lot of space both physical and emotional which allows me to be that way, and the people around me have finally realised that left to my own devices I can achieve everything that specifically needs to be done as well as the icing-on-the-cake stuff calmly and efficiently. I'm 60 this year and I'm the most contented I've ever been because I am living in the manner that suits my psychological makeup rather than under imposed expectations. So yeah, this is all consistent with my life experience.

[@leahlei5776]

“Demand avoidance” labels the behavior, but not the underlying emotional motivation for it. I’m sure this varies to some extent by the individual, but the fact that this is a social reaction lends a clue. Demands/expectations come with the possibility of being judged by performance (accuracy, efficiency, organization, ability to prioritize, etc.) and these executive functioning skills may be emotional sore spots, where past criticism has triggered shame. It makes sense that one would develop anxiety and/or irritability around demands in order to avoid the possibility of triggering shame again. I have personally found the books/talks by Brené Brown and Kristin Neff to be of huge benefit in this area. They speak to the importance of building self-compassion in order to gain emotional resiliency-and a more flexible response to the expectations of others. ❤

[@marionmoat9235]

This is a good statement as I was wondering not what it was but how to deal with it and there wasn’t anything about that in the podcast

[@jvrock7]

Harry Thompson "PDA Extrodinaire" defines demand avoidance as "an anxiety-driven need to be free."... And I never felt so seen as when I heard that for the first time.

[@vazzaroth]

Yep. Read his book and just found I was relating to his internal world and struggles so much, even if I never quite hit the same level of 'acting out'. I wonder sometimes how much of that was due to Harry having siblings and me being an only child, so I had the unwavering eye of parental sauron on my 24/7.

[@aprilthomas1489]

That makes perfect sense. I am not on the spectrum and this is me to a T. I do have trauma history that involves being trapped in horrible situations for extended periods of time, and some of these situation were somewhat like prison, but thankfully I have never actually been.

[@Doubtlessly]

I’m sitting at my desk crying. Thank you so much for this video. It’s finally put into words something I’ve experienced for years, especially during the pandemic. I’ve felt like such a failure, beating the hell out of myself for not doing what I’m supposed to be doing. It’s felt like a never-ending cycle of feeling intense anxiety about demands and then feeling intense anxiety about not doing the stuff I need to. I’ve felt like a brat like you say but truly it’s just intense emotional burnout. I’m grateful I’ve found this video … it’s incredibly valuable in my life!

[@orionkelly]

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

[@nicolagalton9457]

I too am having an epiphany watching this!

[@和平和平-c4i]

Me too, it is the story of all my failures.

[@mikeymccarroll]

@@Doubtlessly ditto

[@dumbdonny4824]

This 100% explains why I literally cannot force myself to go back to normal jobs. I work for myself now and whenever I consider having to go back to a normal job with a schedule and specific tasks I want to literally off myself. Thank you for helping me understand myself so i can be more compassionate.

[@simonmeszaros2770]

I have that preference too, but the reson is to be on my own terms. I love working in a small team on particular project with closed ending term and i can handle schedules(sometimes - especially when someone is reliant on my work) but other than have job done i dont much care about other things happening around me, not even rules like when work day starts and ends. And when it all comes to just have job done i realised i would better do something i want to put my effort to.

[@adrianalicea6704]

What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

[@andrewm3329]

Yes that would be interested to know. I find I can only work by myself maybe I could in a small team but I don't have any qualifications.

[@scottfulton267]

That sounds exactly like my experience. I quit my office job back in July 2021, and then went on to become a delivery van driver (unfortunately making less than half what I was making in the office job), but I still needed to do it. Friends questioned my decision, but it really is what I had to do. I'm 53 and kind of wanting to retire early fairly soon. But the idea of going back and working in an office really does make me want to off myself.

[@LocaButt]

This is where Im at. I lost my job at the beginning of the month and got a lot of anxiety while looking at job ads. I decided to just go into business for myself. Its overwhelming and self-doubt is getting louder and louder.

[@RainbowPyramid]

With my kids' demand avoidance, we gave each one a small white board which we hang up where they can see their board as they come out of their room. I find writing down things on the board really helps them and me. eg. if I have a chore I need them to do, by writing it down, they are able to process the request and do the chore (maybe not right then and there, but within the next few days). The white boards have been a game changer for our family (and greatly reduced arguments about who should be doing what chores when). We also write appointments on the white boards, so that everyone can see if one of the kids has an out of home appointment, they might have higher stress levels that day and may be less able to overcome anxiety for even basic tasks, and it also helps them understand why their anxiety might be high on that particular day.

[@mamavscience2977]

For me it's about stimulus overload. A demand--even from elsewhere in one's own head--switches on a whole new stream of information that needs to be integrated, coordinated, choreographed...separate and distinct from one's own internal stream of consciousness. It's like trying to run a race or hike a hard trail with a slipper on one foot and an Ugg boot on the other. When a person has the leisure or the liberty to stay tuned in to their internal stream--kind of a new thing in human experience--and it's flowing like a torrent most of the time, then an incoming side stream is likely to feel distressing.

[@MannaAzad]

Yes! Beautifully said. Thank you for saying it. That's how I feel. Don't throw mud in my Clear Pond it messes things up.

[@johngagon]

This. That's it for me too.

[@seanrea550]

I work i a high demand job setting, fortunately with physical task rather than abstract task, and yes I have to consider every general thing I have to do, I don't look at specifics until I get to that aspect. Adding something new to that when I don't already have high order priorities, has me having to stop for a minute to sort it in to priory and how to do it and with what other related task.

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

Wearing two Ugg boots is bad enough. They mush your feet. I’d rather hike the trail in high heels.

[@karlalawrence8847]

So much yes to this!! I'm recalling my dad would often call me stubborn when I was growing up because I wouldn't just do the thing when he asked. I couldn't! I would lock up and need time to reorganize my brain around things before I could get moving. Now at 44 I've learned to hear but not internalize the information, so that I can follow my internal stream, as you so wonderfully said. Until I'm at a more natural point of transition when I can better attend to the external stimuli.

[@Imustscream]

I was diagnosed with ASD late in life. When I was in 3rd grade in 1979 I asked my teacher for scissors Buy pantomiming scissors with my fingers. She insisted that I ask her verbally. I couldn’t. She got angry with me and I still couldn’t do it. I got yelled at pretty badly (for an 8 year old) that it stuck with me till now (50). I never fully understood why I couldn’t just speak up to stop the yelling (I later knew it was autism but I still didn’t understand). Thanks for the video.

[@stefanmargraf7878]

Oh man, teachers....did nobody tell the how to deal with people in the spectrum? I suffered also a lot.

[@Call-me-Al]

@@stefanmargraf7878 in 1979, noooope. I think it was like 1988 or something that an official diagnosis for less severe autism was finally acknowledged and available. My autistic mother became a specialist special needs teacher including for autists in the 1960s or 1970s, and she had absolutely no idea she was autistic until I maybe five or four years ago kept pointing out that if I have it then she absolutely does as hers is more severe than mine (I didn’t know I was autistic until like five years ago). I was officially diagnosed in 2021. They used to only consider the absolute worst cases of autism as autism back in the 1970s. OP likely wouldn't have qualified for the autism diagnosis available back then. I assure you, 2020 is an infinitely better time to be autistic than pre-2010.

[@AliciaGuitar]

Selective mutism can be hell. Ppl take it SO personally and it puts us in danger due to thier rage at us thinking we do it on purpose. I cannot count the number of times this has happened to me. Yelling "speak up!" at me does NOT help! It just makes everything worse.

[@Call-me-Al]

@@AliciaGuitar yuuuup. Panic attacks are not conductive to speaking.

[@andiralosh2173]

Yeah if someone is struggling yell at them... nothing like the fight or flight mode to help your brain function proper

[@Catlily5]

For me a lot of the demand avoidance is when I am afraid I won't meet other people's (or even my own) expectations. I have failed to meet expectations so many times in the past that my brain starts to freak out when a demand is placed on me especially when I don't think I can finish it on time. I am very slow at completing things.

[@joycebrewer4150]

I hear you! This is what I have experienced as well. It even contributed to my eventual being placed on autistic spectrum.

[@ananimal9779]

YES. My intrusive thoughts ask me why to try, since in my past even doing things right may be met with aggressive critique. Why try if I'm getting set up to fail? But that's nonsense of course, people aren't all the same, and many times the people asking me to do things love and support me. It's hard to pick it apart.

[@Catlily5]

@@ananimal9779 In my case some members of my family were hard on me so it is hard to sort things out.

[@Musika1321]

I totally get this and I am not autistic. It's a really interesting concept.

[@Catlily5]

@@Musika1321 A few autistic traits don't mean that you are autistic. But if you have a lot of autistic traits you might want to look into it.

[@incognito7843]

I am nearly 50 and I got Autism and ADD diagnosis 6 weeks ago... Even though I have read A LOT of material around autism the last 2 years (I started to realise I am autistic by then) in order to understand myself, I have never come across this thing... And this really shook me, all the way down to my deepest foundations. This is THE biggest single negative trait of my personality. It has severely impacted my life, career, marriage and health. And up until now I had no idea what so ever it had anything to do with Autism... So, I am sitting here now, quite stunned. This is one of those moments I will remember the rest of my life. Something just changed inside me. I can't thank you enough for this video, like 10kg of anxiety, self bitterness and self loathing just poured away from my body. And now I have something to work with, because now I have identified the hurdle, now I can experiment on how to get around it instead of "trying to change". My eyes just opened, I can se the hurdles! I am no longer destined to fall over them. I have something I can work with!

[@JeremyBurns]

Same...

[@lynncarter4964]

I want to show this to my husband, but he won't look at anything about autism. I wish he could experience the feeling of 10 kg of anxiety pouring away from his body, but he chooses to live a life of confusion and feeling inadequate, when he is NOT. The common inability to trust is also eroding our relationship.

[@incognito7843]

@@lynncarter4964 That is sad, and also very common. I think it has to do with the misconceptions people have of what autism really is, they get the picture of "rainman" in their head, and then they get offended to be associated with that "popular culture image".

[@bigchubb5268]

​@@lynncarter4964 I am absolutely terrified of going back to the doctors after they said they thought I might be autistic. I don't want a permanent problem, I want to fix myself, I feel a need to fix things if I can't I panic and then god knows what happens after that but Its so intense a feeling that I can't remember why actually happens

[@incognito7843]

​@@bigchubb5268 You can't cure or fix autism, but you can alter your behaviour and set up your life in a way so that the autism affects your life in a less negative way. If you tune well you can turn it into a mainly positive thing (I have). For me it took years and years to learn how to "design" my life, but I had no help and no awareness about autism during that journey. So even if the problem is permanent and you can't fix the cause, you can fix the outcome. Focus on that, and the panic will most likely go away. Treat your autism as a natural part of life, like hunger or sleep, it is just something you have to deal with accordingly. It is not a problem, it just how it is, so you have to learn how to deal with that, like being incredibly tall, short or something like that...

[@seanrobinson7661]

I have a son who was diagnosed with ASD, but have been struggling to help him because I simply don't understand how he thinks or why he can't "just do something." I have never heard of PDA until now and THIS IS HIM. Thank you so much for making this video...I needed to hear all of this. I will stop asking him "why can't you just do it!" Now I understand. Time to do more research on PDA :)

[@sourgreendolly7685]

This is so nice to read as someone who went undiagnosed as a kid (ADHD diagnosed at 32, I'm suspecting ASD as well but haven't been confirmed). I got a lot of that whenever I couldn't stay focused. I remember crying and saying I don't know HOW but no one believed me and now I'm nearing 35 and struggle to recognize my own needs. Just believing him is one of the biggest gifts you can give your son. He's going to face a world that doesn't understand and doesn't try to most of the time, you can be an important reminder that he's not just making it all up and his struggles are real and valid. Sorry for the ramble, my point is that you're making a bigger difference than you can ever know and that makes me happy.

[@ExkupidsMom]

That is such a gift you're giving your son. Parenting excellence!!

[@madshorn5826]

Beside not asking "Why can't you ..." maybe formulate demands as suggestions and/or give 2-3 tasks to choose from. Making sure there is a way out every time is also helpful in my experience. The number of times my kids went to school right after I suggested taking a day off ... Just knowing there is an alternative makes stuff so much easier to face. And respect limits. Our youngest didn't want us to say "sleep well" because it sounded like a demand, so we went with just "good night" :-)

[@gillypiexo]

Don't forget to get tips from occupational therapists it's so helpful ❤

[@LocaButt]

I don't have an issue with anything else. I would be completely happy if PDA didn't exist. It rules my life :(

[@jeffreypollan308]

This is usually written off as procrastination. I’m happy to find out that there’s something else going on. Looking back, I’m amazed that I made it through five years of architecture school, followed by over four decades of (sometimes interrupted) semi-successful employment in architecture. At my graduation, in which a class that started with 50 students, ended up with 25, my father told me that I had a year to move away from home. I ended up taking twenty years, avoiding a difficult demand, despite emotional abuse from my father. Today, there are things that remain on my to-do list seemingly forever, sometimes involving phone calls.

[@theyxaj]

Phone calls are the worst.

[@visionvixxen]

@@theyxaj seriously. Too bad we couldn’t just give two options… yes or no. This or that date. Meet me in person and we can talk about it. No BS in between. 😂

[@KatiTheButcher]

@@theyxaj oh my gosh! What about leaving voicemails?! I'd rather sit on a bunch of thumb tacks!

[@Afishionado1]

I sense a lot of overlap between this and the "wall of awful" that Jessica talks about on her "How To ADHD" channel. The closest thing I've found to a "hack" for demand avoidance is keep a long list of things to work on, and limit expectations to making progress on *something* from that list. That kind of flexibility isn't always possible, but when it is it makes a real difference.

[@KarmasAbutch]

Also ended up her with ADHD … but I also do it when making demands on myself 😵‍💫 Which is why I haven’t done taxes in 11 years. Definitely the disability showing up as I don’t owe money, am probably owed a refund, so now I’ve added… having to fess up to a punishable offence and being audited / penalized first. So … never mind then.

[@kdelka81]

I'm both and feel it is entirely different. It comes from a different psychological place and requires an entirely different approach. If mental health professionals viewed it from the ADHD perspective and implemented techniques one would usually use for ADHD demand avoidance, that professional is setting the client up for failure and will then label the client resistant to treatment when the reality is the treatment was inappropriate bc the therapist viewed it under the ADHD lense. My experience, drawing too many parallels with ADHD demand avoidance minimizes the experience of PDA. That's why they are separate diagnoses entirely.

[@nf3959]

I totally agree. The whole wall of awful concept has been helping me so much lately. I think the missed opportunity in this video was to talk about how the avoidance, while inevitable, can then trigger a hell of a lot of emotional baggage. Often when I experienced demand avoidance, it is for things that I fully 100% believe need to be done, and I feel incredibly guilty about suddenly being unable to do them…. and I desperately want to make people understand how unhelpful the demand is… and I can feel myself at times potentially slipping into a meltdown, specially if there’s already a whole bunch of other emotional things putting me close to the edge. And then the meltdown itself becomes the reason why I cannot do things. If I was just being an asshole trying to avoid work none of those additional things would be triggered.

[@anon6056]

Oh cool. Thank you! I'll try out this hack, it sounds pretty helpful

[@GoAskAlice10TALL]

@@KarmasAbutch Me too!!! I have 7 years of refunds, yet somehow I just can’t do it. I need the money badly too, but I can’t seem to do it. I have gotten copies of my slips 2-3 times and after a while, I’m sure some are lost so the result will be all wrong. A refund could easily become a debt with a missing slip added that I didn’t have the opportunity to manage somehow.

[@r.w.bottorff7735]

Wow, I'm absolutely amazed that this wasn't just a "me" thing. As an autistic middle aged man, a very reserved and soft spoken individual, I've been chided my whole life long for not having a more "mature" or even "manly" approach to tackling spontaneous problems that are an everyday occurrence in life, and I could never confidently articulate my innate inability to act in a more practical way to those I was defending myself against. Thank you for shedding light on this.

[@orionkelly]

I’m so grateful it resonated with you. Thanks so much for watching and commenting.

[@Blox117]

i dont think this has anything to do with awetism. i mean normal people will not want to do something if the reason is "just because"

[@kymmhinterberger3856]

For me if something "pops up" then the rest of my schedule shuts down.

[@BeckBeckGo]

I always wondered what this was myself. I mean I get it, but I didn’t have the words for it. I would always label it as some weird Asperger’s thing. Sometimes I don’t feel capable of caring for myself, that’s how bad it can get. And that’s a scary feeling. But it helps so much to know what it is and hear possible reasons as to why. Because now I’m armed with more of a vocabulary that I can use to manage expectations. Including expectations I put on myself. Because I’m sure there are times I’m just being obstinate or stubborn vs actual neurological blockage.

[@spacegrass6632]

​@@Blox117 did you watch the video?

[@bigchaz6426]

I think the problem with making a commitment to appointments 10:22 (for me, at least) is partly due to not knowing what frame of mind I will be in at the time of the appointment, as I may not be wanting to interact with people at that time and I am fully aware of that when I am making the appointment and at every moment in-between arranging it and going to it. The problem is that I can't say "apologies in advance if I don't turn up as I may not be in the right frame of mind to meet with you as I need more freedom than that". Unfortunately, that's not how appointments usually work. Haha! Shame really. 😀

[@asabovesobelow7981]

DITTO arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@madshorn5826]

​​@camelliainzurich1262 You plan for plans going off the rails by accepting that this happens in the messy real world and knowing how to look up timetables etc when say trains are canceled. As for the mood: Do small trials and note if it isn't possible to enjoy even if you didn't felt like doing the thing right before. Time for science! Controlled experiments and extensive note taking for the win ;-) Edit: Facing the wotk is another research topic. You don't look at all the work, but start with a single task. Making lists is helpful (and maybe the first task) And again: Start with small controlled experiments. And remember it isn't science if can't occasionally go wrong ;-)

[@gillypiexo]

Dude this is the bane of my existence!

[@naysneedle5707]

Same!

[@ferona.mumaloo]

@camelliainzurich1262 yessss!!! I never plan a vacation - maybe a few different options for the different ways I might be feeling, but that’s about it (like some activities that are out in public and some more isolated, that kind of thing)

[@blueberrypanquakes]

My senior year of college, I completely fell apart trying to write my undergrad thesis. Had to get an extension to work on it off campus for a few months. When I called home to tell my parents the news, my mother's response was that she was ashamed of my inability to finish on time and "so mad I could choke you." Thanks, Mom. The threats of physical violence are really helpful when I'm frozen and unable to get things done...

[@lilithowl]

Wow that's rough. I'm sorry that happened.

[@gryffynda1]

For me it boils down to the lack of fairness. It’s reciprocal- I don’t want them to tell me what to do and I don’t want to tell them to do something, either. It sort of violates my sense of respect and boundaries. It also annihilates any urge I may have had to do the task in the first place. I am able to hold most of this at bay for my work. I have a mind-blanking technique I use when it is for my job, which allows me to proceed. Of course, then when I come home I don’t want to do anything at all!

[@danzacjones]

yes I would never demand someone do something it seems like a boundary violation & really bad for them what it is it if they offered I could say how they might be able to help or if they came an asked me "Waht can I do" I might have suggestions and also be totally understanding if they couldn't. Mostly at work it's "what can I do now?" orf I wanted to have someone else do something I might ask "do you want to do this?" I never place that expectation & I treat everything that does happening like a gift and express appreciation.

[@dannyarcher6370]

That's a ridiculous way to live. If people all had that attitude, nothing would get done.

[@leludallasmultipass]

@@dannyarcher6370I’m assuming why it’s such a major problem. Honestly I always thought that the ability to suck it up and get things done was built into everyone but it is indeed not and now I’m here trying to figure out how to help my kid before she gets too hard wired this way and can’t function in the real world.

[@dannyarcher6370]

@@leludallasmultipass Is she autistic?

[@vazzaroth]

YES to this! ADHD diagnosed and Spectrum highly suspected, similar to asperger's. As a kid, this was SUCH a problem. As an adult, I always go on rants to my wife (usually about others) how "I know HOW I can do the thing, and WHEN I can do the thing, and how I WANT to do thing so that the outcome is the way it NEEDS to be to meet my own standards, but then someone always comes in and tries to change the parameters or control how I do it and now I can't do it at all and everyone thinks I can't do anything EVER!!!" Cleaning my room as a kid. If it was a task I initiated, and I knew I eventually would when 'the time was right', even though I never know when that is ahead of time, then I can do it, it's not distressful, and it's actually fun and I feel accomplished afterwards. But being told "clean your room now!" and getting checked on and berated if it took longer than 2 hours ruined my life for the entire week. The feeling of being hurried or under pressure of basically any kind is the most distasteful feeling I ever feel in life, and now that I'm in my early 30's, it feels like all of life and society is conspiring to put me under pressure. Writing is another one. I have tons of ideas and I'm working on fantasy novels. But I need at least 30min ramp-up, and 20m ramp down, and about an hour in the middle to make ANY progress. If I get 'checked on' or a phone call or any interruption of any kind, I basically 'reset' and so often I find that I'm just kind of getting started over and over as things pop up. So then I make almost no progress except piddling around in my notes a little, never hitting that flow state. A few days in a row of that and I'm demotivated to even try. To a degree, absolutely, it's up to me to try to get what i need, but I often feel so 'fussy' that it's hard to make my needs known. Even now I STRONGLY struggle to determine a NEED vs a WANT and modern therapist-led online advice seems to ignore the idea of: "What if my seeming NEEDS are so extreme compared to a normal person that 95% of the population refuses to accommodate them???" And what point am I being unreasonable? B/c given full choice, I'd have complete control over every second of my life and my environment but that's not very pro-social and almost certainly unfair to my wife and other family. Therapy has helped somewhat but I always end up watching these Autism videos and feeling seen like I never do in any other community outside of perhaps ADHD-PII ones. It really is hard to convey, and I do love the few people that can listen to "Well, don't feel like doing it, but I'm going to try to get the will to do the thing you just told me, I just need ~5 mins alone first" for the words and not interpret some kind of emotional/personal slight embedded in that comment.

[@orionkelly]

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences.

[@kriesia3672]

I really appreciate you reaching into my head and perfectly writing out what I’ve been struggling with. I didn’t even realize it was this. But reading your comment, it’s all clicked for me. I know you’re talking about your life, but this really helped me so thank you.

[@visionvixxen]

I wanted to screenshot this and show it to anyone who doesn’t get me over and over again and then I start questioning and not getting me too. It becomes almost a question of morality and selfishness and it both is and isn’t. Taking care of oneself is different for each individual, but when your degree of self care drives everyone away, obviously you have to find a new ground and the constant need to navigate new grounds without a manual is literally exhausting.

[@YokoInTheMix]

Thank you for the example with your writing, I just realized I have the exact same problem with music! Years ago when I started music production it came so easily, because it was the "new exciting" thing and I was just hyperfocussing on all the details and creating new tunes. Then life took a turn that made me pause this, and ever since I've tried getting back into it, but since I know the amount of time it requires me to slowly get to know the routine and technical details behind it again, every time I think "hey, today I could finally start again!" SOMETHING always comes and interrupts me. Household responsibilities, my gf wanting to socialize after the work week (and I totally get why she wants it and don't blame her!), unplanned urgent todos (need to make some appointment with a doctor, which in itself is another challenge due to demand avoidance as I now realize) etc. etc. and my original plan to get back into music production is busted! And nowadays since I've experienced that so often I'm most of the time not motivated anymore to start producing again. I still "fight back" and refuse to say I've quit producing music, but at best I'm in the middle of a veeery long break right now. Sometimes I fantasize about winning lots of money in the lottery, so I can stop working for one year and finally have enough time to get back to produce new tunes. Also, the room cleaning thing is sooo familiar as well. I absolutely had nothing against having a clean room, so it would not make sense to refuse cleaning it. But whenever I was asked to do it by my parents, I instantly felt strong resistance building up inside me and my room stayed as it was. But sometime later when I was by myself and noone expected anything of me, I just cleaned it up without any issue. I'm really happy to find all these great resources about Autism & ADHD online which give me a whole new perspective and so many things in my life finally seem to make sense. Been learning about all this for maybe 3 months now and will definitely try to get officially diagnosed, though the more I dive into it I get more sure every day that I might have both Autism and ADHD. Let's see where this journey goes!

[@leahlei5776]

Building in transition time is important and necessary for you-and a boundary that you’ve been asserting, which is awesome! I wouldn’t let another person’s emotional reaction stop you from setting a reasonable boundary.

[@eucolecionodinossauros]

I didn't know anyone else felt that. Describes me perfectly. I still try to do stuff, despite the anxiety and dread, but it is hard and causes me lots of stress.

[@martinmckee5333]

The wheel chair analogy works for any number of symptoms of mental illnesses and developmental disabilities. I've been on both sides: as a special education teacher I had to deal with other teachers and parents that would say "they just need to try harder/ stop being so lazy/be more focused"; and as someone with chronic, treatment resistant, depression, I couldn't possibly count the number of times I've been told that I just need to be more positive, or choose to be happy. I think part of the problem is that many people - even when they can access other people's emotions through empathy - are completely incapable of understanding that the processes by which decisions are made in their brain may, indeed be different for other people. They simply cannot get out of the framework of their own mind.

[@robryan2079]

Thanks for this video! I have noticed about myself that I don’t have a hard time achieving something when it’s something I CAN DO but as soon as I make it something I HAVE TO do, it’s like I literally CANNOT DO IT. I have not formally been diagnosed but this is one of several reasons I suspect I have some form of autism.

[@Sarah_H]

I ultimately dropped out of art school because the courses were getting more demanding. But before this video it never actually hit me that THAT was the main reason; it was no longer fun or fulfilling to be in art school so I dropped out, BUT ALSO what was MAKING it not fun or fulfilling was the more demanding atmosphere as I got closer to graduating. More intensive projects completed in less time, MORE of a workload in the same amount of time as it'd take me to finish just one portion of the project, teachers constantly saying that I "wasn't applying myself" when I couldn't finish projects on time or that my work wasn't good enough (even though other teachers and even someone who was IN the animation industry who had come to my class to help with portfolio evaluations had said it was headed in the right direction). My parents were always telling me that they were "looking forward to seeing my name in Pixar movie credits" and in my first year I'd said I wanted to work for Pixar, but after being in even a microcosm of the actual animation industry (one of my portfolio classes had us do everything in a standard animation pipeline), I decided...nah. Can't do it. I'm not gonna be working at Pixar lol And reading this now it really does sound like a stupid tantrum. "LOL you dropped out because you just couldn't handle actual work and rejection". Neurotypical folks just really can't comprehend neurodivergent brains and make every deviation out to be a personal failing and it's TIRING

[@Wolit51]

I'm glad you wrote this. I had a similar experience in school. It was fun and exciting at first and I did really well, but as I got closer to graduation, I just couldn't get projects finished. My friends were all talking about how great it would be to come to my graduation. I basically flunked the last few classes even though up until then I had good grades. Of course i still think I maybe just wasn't smart enough to be able to finish. I still feel ashamed of this. But I think given enough time I would have been able to finish the projects. I will never know.

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

My dad wanted me to go to art school but I wanted to be a mathematician-physicist instead. Even though it would be a lot easier for me to become an artist in my unique situation, I would hate it as I don’t like drawing the same picture over and over again for animation or even comics. I’m not that great of an artist either. It was my dad’s way of putting me down intellectually.

[@Window4503]

I think anyone would be burned out by that. I’m not on the spectrum. Not to downplay your experience, but it seems like some of the stories and complaints here have more to do with issues of people in power being unrealistic (they always are) about what people are able to do than actual neurodivergent expectations. For example, the majority of juniors in my high school started having panic attacks because the workload was too heavy from unrealistic expectations from the teachers. In short, the rest of us, though different in one way, are right there with you in other ways.

[@iswearimcoolguys]

@@Window4503i think there's definitely an intersectionality to this, school/work/etc in general have been following this idea of do more in less time. I feel as though the internet has streamlined this idea in the age of capitalism and with that has led a lot of people to burn out, struggle, or what have you. People of course who probably all aren't neurodivergent, though I definitely think a great majority are and just never realized/knew they were ND due to decades of stigmas and societal standards.

[@mv1362]

Somehow I finished art school but my projects were not as tedious as yours sound. I was industrial design. Everything you said makes perfect sense

[@kathryngordon5115]

I'm crying right now because you've helped me come to an understanding of part of myself that has always led to self loathing, I find myself unable to do things i really, really want to do, am excited about... when I feel a sense of demand on them - even when that demand comes from inside. I thought I was just lazy or undisciplined...

[@kj3d812]

YES!!!! Thank you so much, @Kathryn Gordon, for saying this. Lately I've been struggling A LOT with the "I'm so excited about this so why am I so totally unable to do anything about it." A year ago I paid for a 3D model subscription for my architectural visualization projects in Blender (3D modeling software), and every month was like a kid in a candy store downloading all the new models. Yet after I'd download them, they'd just sit on my hard drive. I'd have all these ideas for projects in my head, but I'd never actually sit down to do them, or I'd start and then it would just fall off the radar, or I'd lose interest. Every day I'd beat myself up in my mind -- basically playing the "scolding parent" (and my parents were both toxic authoritarian narcissists, literally), which only made things worse but you have that mindset of "I just need to work harder, get off my lazy a$$." I haven't even watched the video yet, but instead for some reason started reading through the comments and when I got to yours, I broke into tears. YES YES YES! The self-loathing, the guilt, the self-shaming, the horrid endless cycle of excitement--do nothing--shame oneself...all too familiar.

[@mv1362]

​@@kj3d812 read Unmasking Autism. I just read a chapter that made me feel completely better than the self loathing I am lazy etc

[@allieuncharted]

@@kj3d812now if only there was a way to fix this or reframe things so that there is no explanation and we could achieve our goals 🤌🏻

[@violentcat345]

To be honest I was hoping you'd have an answer as to what to do when one is experiencing demand avoidance, it's so stressful and impacts so many things, I wish there was some way to overcome it, I just end up trying my best to force myself through it and end up really burned out. I also feel like this issue blurs into what my partner and I call "Hurry up and wait" when you have a task or place to be at a certain time of the day(usually later on in the day) and can't do anything else until you've gotten it out of the way. For example, meeting a friend at 4pm but you feel like you can't settle all day or complete any meaningful tasks because you're in a state of 'waiting' for the main task to happen.

[@hellequinm]

get help from psychologists, there's workarounds to deal with how your brain react to stuff, but it all comes down to what actually works for you, it will require a lot of trying and effort to make it work

[@gossamors610]

Omg this is so real

[@LegendOfMoonDragons]

I'm not autistic but I def experience that too. I force myself to be super productive the whole day (cleaning, sorting things etc) because I absolutely cannot settle until The Thing I Have To Do later in the day is done

[@PARoth2011]

I thought only my husband did that. I could never wrap my head around it. I’d ask if he could help me do something in the morning but he couldn’t because he had an appt in the afternoon..consider me stunned! I wouldn’t care if he was someone else’s husband but I end up having to do 90% of everything by myself. Oh my gosh..I am so screwed..😝🤣

[@phydeux]

Oh, and the way I once heard "demand avoidance" described is a "mental muscle cramp". The person would happily comply, but the pressure of the demand causes them to mentally cramp up, and the more pressure exerted, the more painful the cramp becomes. And once the pressure is relieved, the cramp goes away and they can complete the requested task in their own time.

[@AnarchyIsLove]

When I was trying to graduate highschool I was incredibly far behind, and I couldn't get anything done until I told all my teachers to leave me alone about it and move out of my parents house. As soon as nobody was telling me what to do, I was able to do the work to finish school. It's the strongest example I have, but I do this stuff all the time.

[@lisawanderess]

So get this! I always ask for any appointments to be after midday as if it’s a morning appointment I literally won’t sleep at all the night before! It’s debilitating! And every time I commit to any event, I get so anxious and exhausted and stressed over if I’ll actually be up to it, or if I’ll get overstimulated, overwhelmed or meltdown and come to the conclusion that I just should totally isolate and not do anything that involves other humans.

[@tracik1277]

I totally relate to this. It’s got worse as I’ve got older.

[@tnijoo5109]

I really, really relate to this too. So much!!!

[@ravenID429]

I'm the opposite way lol, if I have to go somewhere or do something in the afternoon/night my entire day leading up to it is ruined

[@tnijoo5109]

@@ravenID429 yes!!!!! Me tooooooo.

[@melissabyrd1310]

Wow what you said is totally me. EXACTLY to the T. The person i live with is non supportive and a narcisist, belittles me because i always try to make any appointment after 12:00 noon., if i have no choice but to have even a somewhat early appointment I do not sleep at all, not even a a little doze, then i wind up going to the appointment feeling like poo and even kinda sick feeling with a gut issue or migraine or both. People just don't get it and even belittle me over it. I to just feel like isolating .

[@IAMGiftbearer]

I consider it "pressure avoidance" because it seems that if one feels pressured then it's like a kind of performance anxiety. Being made to feel on the spot makes it harder to do the action. Each of us has our own process to be prepared to do something and if that process is disrupted it destroys the momentum. An example in my life is that I have alot of art projects I want to do but I often have to do weeks or months of preparation before I can get started. This is why I don't do well in entering contests with deadlines. When I'm ready to do the project I want to do it while the iron is hot. If I'm thwarted by someone or some outside circumstance then that also makes me unable to do it afterwards.

[@vazzaroth]

YYYYESSSSSSS! Pressure Averse. That was a phrase I too 'invented' to describe basically the #1 complex I've had my whole life. Only recently came to realize the word pressure summarizes all of the issues in one. Very interesting because the woman I married is basically the opposite. If there's no deadline, no pressure, she flounders around and kinda doesn't know what to do with herself and makes herself more and more miserable. She decided to enter a college art contest and focused harder than I've ever seen. She does exceedingly well in school. Like she was made for it. The downside is that she can't NOT perform at a high level. Then she's incapable, and it's led to multiple nervous breakdowns when she can't make everyone happy by meeting the expectations finally. So it's not like there's a great solution out there on either end. (I find it fascinating that she was left alone, physically, as a kid constantly and basically had to raise herself. I had perhaps overly involved parents who would always 'correct' me but didn't really offer nurturing, so at the end of the day, we have the same lack of emotional support but opposite physical conditions.) Meanwhile I (And I wonder if you're the same) struggled deeply with school yet am constantly obsessed with learning in my free time. It's basically all I want to do. But when it comes time to perform and be judged, I'm useless, can't remember things I know I know, get shaky, can't organize my thoughts, etcetc. Used to do GREAT on tests when everyone was quiet, it was just me and the paper, and I could tune out the world and focus on it. But group projects, public speaking, homework (With a world of other things to do instead).... no way.

[@DavidBennell]

@@vazzaroth I mean this is something I could have written about myself, I feel this applies 100% I had a stay-at-home mum who would have a schedule of things for me to do and would nag if I didn't keep to the schedule, even though school holidays etc. and yes I did poorly in school but spent a huge amount of time outside school learning in my free time.

[@cj1986x]

I really like that too. To me, the phrase "demand avoidance" always felt judgy and biased and more descriptive of how others saw it and not as we experience it. When I experience it, it's the social pressure to do an act that is the source of stress and the resistance/fight-or-flight response.

[@JaneRakali]

I'm in my fifties and only found out last year that autism runs in my family. This has absolutely been my life story.

[@KatiTheButcher]

At 44 I can relate. Too bad we didn't know about this sooner eh?

[@atticus_ink9487]

I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago, and Autism runs in my husband’s family. I recently noticed this exact trait in my 11-yr-old son and wondered if it was actually a symptom of one or the other. I can’t tell you how grateful I am to have seen this video.

[@c-hawkins4358]

Orion your videos have been so helpful and easy for me to listen to. I am 71 and 8 months ago I clicked on a video about autism and that has changed my life. I finally understand that I was not transported to the wrong planet at birth. Life hasn't been easy and I never told anyone how alone I felt and tried to fit in as best as I could. I am now exploring who I am. The constant masking has got to end I'm tired of it. Thank you.

[@hourcide]

It's like you've been reading my mind. I was having my appraisal at work just last week and although I excell in most places my "attitude" got brought up and despite trying to explain why I have "meltdowns/tantrums" whenever I'm given a time limit nobody seemed to understand me or had any sympathy for me. This video puts it into words perfectly. Cheers, Orion.

[@yesterdaydream]

When I finally told my mom to stop asking if I have a job yet, it was really helpful. It would just make me completely freeze! Thanks for adding this to my vocabulary.

[@augusto97gt]

As an autistic person with demand avoidance, I feel it's important to also understand Why - not just How - it happens. And the reasons are probably different for each person, so it's really a thing to work in therapy or something. For example, yesterday I had to cut a birthday cake... it may seem like something stupidly easy to do but I was unable to do it precisely because of that demand/expectation. Later I realized that the expectation placed a pressure on my mind that it had to be done PERFECTLY, after all people were counting on me. If I had just cut the cake without anyone asking me to do it, an imperfect piece would not feel like the end of the world because I was doing something no one else volunteered to do (kind of like a favor) and most importantly, no one seemed to expect it being done a certain way. Finding out what's behind each situation leaves us with room to work on our feelings and beliefs, which over time may reduce the impact of demand avoidance. It's hell but we are not forever doomed to have the same amount of demand avoidance... in my personal view.

[@naomistarlight6178]

That's good insight with the cake example - about how we experience things as more difficult or stressful if it's for the sake of others bc then there is more pressure. And what others can do is be as patient as possible and try to relieve us of that pressure to do things perfectly for their sake.

[@ZachOnTheGlass]

That's a big thing for me. Especially if done in front of a crowd or group of friends, but I equate it to test anxiety. When I do something in front of my boss my whole thought process explodes into a jumbled mess and I can't function as I would on my own.

[@Casmige]

Yeshhhh! Indeed!, “has to be perfect”. I was accused of being a perfectionist because I hated being wrong. I recoiled at the assertion but the more that I reflected upon it the more I realised the gentleman was absolutely spot-on. I simply hate being wrong or doing something wrong & if I don’t have the time or the ability to do something right?, I simply avoid, post-pone, & of course do tonnes of research before I finally getting around to finally & actually doing the “it” that needed to be done from the on-set. I’m learning that my expectations of others who are “professionals” at what they supposedly do is sorely disappointed because *they* never do what I know they should do & certainly not in the [thorough] manner that I would do it…Essentially informing me that I’m a lot more able & capable to do something than the “professionals” that I extol & put on a pedestal. Alas? I’m 62…..I certainly wish I would’ve known this when I was much much younger.

[@ashlynonline]

was just thinking about this!! it creates the pressure that someone else is expecting this of me. now i have to weigh in if it is up to their standards or if it’s “good enough.” I think i’m also afraid of the backlash if it isn’t, and being told that i did it wrong and could have to do it again or being berated for not doing it right the first time

[@crystaldavison8299]

It blows my mind that even after years I still find new “quirks” of mine that relate back to autism. I’m with you man, can’t explain it and if your force me to try to explain it I will literally be unable yo speak.

[@shock_n_Aweful]

I struggled in Uni because of this. The main reason I decided to go was because I was already studying history on my own because I love it soo much. As soon as it was something I had to do I started to hate doing it. It created a huge amount of stress. Writing essays was also excruciating despite the fact that I enjoy talking/writing about the subject. It didn't make it impossible but it came with extreme amounts of stress and aggregation. I feel sorry for my wife who had to be around me in that state. Now that I have completed my degree I enjoy the subject a again and have started studying again.

[@TheDeborah0101]

Demand avoidance. This is perfect. My entire life has been filled with avoiding, avoiding, avoiding. I'm often accused of fighting against authority, and this is somewhat true, but my unreasonable avoidance of demand, time constraints, and commitment is not a conscious decision. I don't preplan my reactions. They come from pure panic when faced with these situations, and the panic renders me immobile. Time constraints, demands, and commitment are enemies, and I will do most anything avoid those situations.

[@ImTheDudeMan471]

The hardest thing I ever completed was an undergrad degree, which was to memorize facts or formulas, decisions were made for me. The easiest thing I ever did was my graduate degree. My timeline, no demands, no decisions made for me, asked my own questions, researched the way I saw fit.

[@SongdogWoolley]

I'm a 65 year old woman who hasn't been diagnosed with autism (but do have diagnosed generalized anxiety disorder) - it's only recently occurred to me that this is a possibility. But this, THIS describes EXACTLY what happens in my brain. I recently moved, and got a new job at a wonderful business, with helpful and friendly co-workers, working in an environment I love. I liked working when I was there, VERY much! But after 2 weeks, the demand avoidance won. I couldn't MAKE myself go to this really great place where they paid me money to do something I love. I imagine that anyone watching what I've been dealing with would be totally mystified. I feel like a failure, like the lazy person I've always known was lurking just beneath the facade that I use to hide myself from myself and others. I mask well, whatever is going on in my brain. But my brain knows I'm not lazy, and I'm not a failure, and this is the only explanation I've found for my lifetime of similar "failures".

[@micah5847]

I totally feel you! I go to dance classes that I love and the people are lovely but the lack of freedom and room makes it suffocating sometimes to have a schedule like that. I mean i can not go to dance classes so work is even more difficult.

[@Plethorality]

I hope you have recivered from that shut down? Its so horrible to exoerience it. Crippling, even when you know there is "nothing wrong"?;

[@SongdogWoolley]

@@Plethorality thank you for asking! Not yet, not really. BUT - I've finally found a health care provider in my new area that I'm certain will be able to help. It's been a really difficult 3 years, with my anxiety running rampant and affecting every part of my life, losing a parent, having Covid (before there were vaccines). Moving away from a job I felt completely comfortable and capable in. Moving away from friends and family. Losing my health care and low income health care benefits, which resulted from both moving, and turning 65. It's a long term mess that will take a while to put back together as much as is possible, but I'm certain it can be done!

[@russellholmes3187]

@@SongdogWoolley I am Sad for you. No good luck is hard. Your Brain is wired different, accept, adjust, move on - and that is not meant to be nasty, just open advice. Find what works, use it, and staple those bits that work on to the other bits. (Am I sounding like an a-hole? I want to be uplifting, but I think I'm sounding like an A-hole. I suck at this. Sorry)

[@lockandloadlikehell]

Walt till you don't have a choice even in severe suffering

[@angelvalentynn]

This video was perfect timing for me. At the beginning of October I decided I would become this perfectly responsible person and I would just shut my feelings up and just DO what I have to do in order to fulfill my dreams. I had 1 other instance of this back in the 3rd grade and the same thing that’s happening to me now happened, where I just can’t do it anymore. It seems like I’m getting worse at the things I want to improve at and I feel dread when I think about what I need to do. This last weekend I decided to give myself a break to see my friends, play video games and prioritize family, but last night (sunday night) I just couldn’t get to sleep no matter how hard I tried the usual methods that make me fall asleep. I couldn’t stop worrying about the fact that I had to go back to class today and it was already 3am and I was still awake. This morning I woke up ready to force myself to go to class but I literally COULDN’T do it. I even got up and opened my window and opened the door to let heat in but my brain was committed to staying in. I usually clean during the weekends and I didn’t this last weekend because of the obligation, routine literally kills my spirit… so I didn’t go to class and low and behold as soon as I had breakfast I started cleaning up. It hurts me that I know this is how my brain works and I’m only looking out for my well-being and people think I’m just “letting my feelings control me”… I just work differently and I know I can achieve my dreams without compromising my mental health but nobody believes me… Just as I was writing this my mom came home from work and told me to at least go to school for a few hours… I was already planning on doing it and now I’m totally unmotivated… I’m still gonna try to go because it was originally my idea but God this sucks…

[@allinaday9882]

Yes, it sounds like an extremely “sucky”cycle of hellish traps. You explained the process clearly. Can you ask someone helpful to you, to write down your (or copy) your comment. Then ask for this helpful person to get a promise from each person in your family, that they will no longer suggest ask or imply a demand about your actions. Then after 2-3 months later, measure for yourself only-did you accomplish the things important to you?

[@marinapeneva8451]

Wow..your videos have been a godsend for me! I am a 41 year old female and finally I know what having some explanation for the way I have been feeling my whole life. Demand avoidance is a big one for me to this day. It takes so much out of me to function in my job and marriage because of it. Beyond exhausting. I pay a very high price mentally for catering to people's demands. When I was a kid I was abused by my own mother for this, being made to eat my own vomit when I wouldn't eat the food she served me, so I threw up and shen made me eat it. Also beat the crap out of me for refusing to do things she asked me to do. I remember having a black eye at school, being knocked down from my chair for refusing to read the text in the textbook. There really needs to be more awareness about this.

[@eboronkay]

Marina, I’m so sorry to hear about your abuse. I hope you have an opportunity to work through it. I’ve done therapy and 12 step programs. The best therapy for me was EMDR, after years of talk therapy, it helped in weeks. Celebrate Recovery is amazing because Jesus is the focus and He has the real power to heal. Homeopathy has helped hugely.

[@animeloveplz]

This gave me an insight into myself i never had before. I always thought i was subconsciously spiteful. but even in drawing, which i love to do, when someone expects me to draw something, i can't draw at all anymore; not even for other things, or for myself.

[@WildRose92626]

I have the same with drawing! I've wanted to start a bigger project for a while now, so I haven't drawn anything in months. So even when it's me who's is telling me to do something, I still run into this wall. I also don't share unfinished work or creative plans anymore because it's the perfect way to never finish anything. Still looking for a way to deal with it.

[@Dancestar1981]

We are constantly betrayed, and criticised and steamrolled by other people. I hate being micromanaged. Let me do things my way and if I have difficulty with something I will ask for help

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes indeed

[@darkadonnis]

@@Dancestar1981 So much this. It's caused arguments and hurt feelings. I go so far out of my to avoid being micro managed there are a number of tasks I simply don't do because those tasks are more likely to lead to someone suggesting or telling me how to do said task. Ask me to accomplish a task but start instructing me and I will shut down every time.

[@helensmith4126]

Great video! I will walk past items in my house for days that would take me seconds to pick up and put away, as I literally can't move it at the time

[@orionkelly]

I do the same thing!

[@helensmith4126]

@@orionkelly It's so frustrating isn't it 😫 I didn't realise it was an autistic/demand avoidance thing

[@dm2836]

Omg yesssss

[@wakkaflakkadown]

Oh, wow - this makes me feel better. Thanks for posting this. I pass piles of things and beat myself up so much. 💕

[@monicaluketich3106]

So this is why it's taken me almost a year and a half to build a small barn for my goats! I got so much of it finished and then starting finding reasons not to finish it. I feel I should have had it finished for the goats (should make raising them easier for me and meet their needs more efficiently) months ago and there is the reason I couldn't do it. I'm in my 60s and now just figuring out that I'm on the spectrum- very high functioning but still on the spectrum. No doctor has ever even mentioned it but through videos like this one, I am finding out my brain's 'little secrets.'

[@Chandlerforsure]

This video made me realize more on my own life and answered the question, "Why do I avoid this task?" coming from a 25 year old guy diagnosed with Autism. Kudos, Orion.

[@FireKittenss]

I struggle with this so much. I literally can’t do timed/deadline anything. Tests, video games, deadlines…just racked with absolute anxiety and dread. An utter brick wall in my very being.

[@claybutler]

My partner has figured this out. She'll just say, I expect an apology when you are ready, and then walks away and leaves me alone.

[@Kageoni187]

How I was finally able to explain it to my mom a few years ago was that it is never that I didn’t want to do it. It’s like this mental wall suddenly shows up between me and the task and in my head it’s like I am throwing myself full force up against the wall until my internal self is battered and bruised. I had no idea how to talk about it or what it was and tried coming up with work arounds but they never worked and I just had to keep going forward. Schools finally changed and kids day because it doesn’t prove anything. Unfortunately it was a requirement me when I was there. My teachers were fantastic and begged me to do it because they had to give out homework and even though I had no trouble getting top marks on quizzes, tests, district exams… etc. I also just could not get my parents to just leave me alone when they saw me cleaning or working on something, because if they didn’t anything I would be able to keep trudging along but if they said something all of a sudden whatever was working would just shut off full stop and I would become so frustrated because I just wanted to finish what I was doing. People need to recognize how hard it is to be built this was and how badly you want to be different.

[@sarahsherman3810]

Every teacher should have to watch this video.😮

[@Phoenix-regenerating]

Your a wonderful community, and THANKS Orion for the video, as a pensioner only recently diagnosed, I really am only just getting to grips with myself. For so long living with self blame, your not good enough and beating myself up. I now hope I can explain this to people. Also think the "pressure avoidance" is a great term. The more people Complain tidy up, it's like putting me on a stove, ( an actual pressure cooker) to steam and steam tiĺl am all burnt up and my brain becomes mush. It takes me months to get going again and calm my brain down to work again. Love and compassion to all of you knowing and suffering this pressure avoidance.

[@Kexeessen]

Omg. This video just now explained 36 years of procrastinating. Thank you!! I am not lazy! I am not at fault! I am not crazy! 🤯

[@simoneholenstein6977]

After self-identification in 2018 my mind was blown - understanding how different autism can look in females explained my whole life to me.... at least I thought so then. I got my Asperger diagnosis this summer at the age of 32 and stumbled across your video yesterday. I am shell shocked - learning about PDA suddenly explaines the things about me and my life that wouldn't quite fit the spectrum as most people understand it! Now I have to figure out how to tell my therapist and the other people in my life so we can all learn to navigate yet another iceberg... Thank you so much for this video - I had never heard about this before throughout all my research into autism.

[@Nakia11798]

Demand avoidance is definitely something I experience. When I'm told to do something, even if I want to do it, it becomes near impossible to do. An example, my bf and I were joking around last night and he said "are you going to continue the song?" And that IMMEDIATELY made me uncomfortable with something I previously was enjoying.

[@orionkelly]

💯 relatable.

[@A5H_01]

I understand that fully! As a musician diagnosed with PDA, I understand the instantaneous pressure to do it repels you from doing it. It's about expectations and if you don't live up to them you fear rejection, mockery and all those bad feelings. So you avoid any negative outcome by simply doing nothing.

[@parrotshootist3004]

The same mechanism can screw with liking things? More reflection fodder...

[@selfhelpchampion9664]

Demand avoidance makes it sound like I’m avoiding things on purpose, but I literally have no choice in it whatsoever. So I prefer to call it demand anxiety.” - Tally

[@ryn2844]

I love that. That's a much better descriptor.

[@beccismith4454]

Awesome way of phrasing it! I like this as well

[@j.jbinks9669]

You do have a choice though, you're just unwilling to make it for whatever reason. Literally nothing is stopping you from doing as you're told. It may not feel good, or fun, or pleasurable yadyayadayada, but that's life. ASD's and other mental health conditions are no excuse to be unnecessarily difficult.

[@theratgod8194]

@@j.jbinks9669 Please watch the video before you comment. This is the type of behavior that creates so much anxiety in people. and if you did watch the video, you didn't really listen. he explains it in an easily understandable way imo. so please try to understand people who go through this, and don't assume that they're being 'difficult'.

[@j.jbinks9669]

@@theratgod8194 I'm not responding to the video, I'm responding to a specific comment on the video. Just because you lot enjoy using your diagnosis as an excuse for your arrogant attitudes that doesn't mean I should sit back and listen to it. Your anxiety is not my concern, it's your own problem to deal with. As a fellow sufferer of Asperger's I won't allow a false narrative to form around the condition, we certainly DO have choices to do as we're told and suggesting otherwise is outright dishonesty.

[@enolp]

OH MY GOSH I CANNOT EVEN EXPRESS RIGHT NOW- Well this video is another prime example of “things I experience that I thought were just me being weird and bad at human-ing before figuring out that I’m autistic and there are in fact a lot of people who experience the same things I do and they’re still acceptable humans so then so am I and wow that’s such a relief I don’t feel so alienated anymore”

[@TheAwesomes2104]

It's so nice to know that I'm not the only one who goes through this. I particularly struggled for a long time because I'd often be given a task as a child, and moments before I went to do it or was on my way to do so, would get yelled at for forgetting or ignoring the task. I swear, my mother can sense me planning to do something, because without fail she will swoop in right before I start it anything I'm about to do and stop me to yell at me for not doing it. Of course, even though this messed me up pretty badly and a lot of ways, it majorly backfired on her. As soon as I realized that I was going to get punished regardless or not of whether I tried to do anything that she asked her expected, I made the logical decision that it was better to just go ahead and take the punishment and get it over with rather than do the chore and still get punished.

[@bubbiccino]

How do they know?! How the fk do they just sense it!! Everyday is a miserable experience with the micromanaging, little digs, random blame and whatnot. The anxiety and hurt from emotional punishments has become lifelong trauma…

[@tammychambless-0dteoptions]

This is so strange. I haven’t thought of myself as autistic, but I know exactly what you mean. I’m retired now, but when I was working, if I thought of something I could do to “help the cause” of whatever we were working on, I was all in, and gave it my very best effort. But when then, my boss knew I could do that thing, he was ask me to do it again on another project, I would get all nervous and self-doubting and just couldn’t do as good of a job as I did the first time. For me, I think it had to do with someone else “expecting” something of me. If they didn’t expect some result, I could perform perfectly and exceed all expectations, but the second they wanted me to do it again, because they were expecting it, I just couldn’t do it as well. I had all kinds of mental gymnastics that I would go through, telling myself that it didn’t really matter, to try to reduce the pressure on myself or reduce the expectations of others, but it was hard! What you describe as Demand Avoidance sounds very familiar to me.

[@ruthhorowitz7625]

The only time demand avoidance becomes an issue for me is if I am overwhelmed. I can still do the task but only if I cancel everything else I have to do, and it makes me physically ill, but I can do it. Then, when I am done, I am done for the day. Even if it only took an hour, I can't get anything else done that day.

[@clare_jordin]

I feel you!

[@sarahsykes]

Wow this is food for thought. As a teacher, this is totally a thing! But it was most prominent in students who have ODD as well so I'd always thought it was an ODD trait moreso than ASD. Thanks for sharing! This is so helpful.

[@pieman3007]

Hi, this really resonates. I'm in the UK, 45 years old but been struggling to get an adult autism assessment via my GP for 2 years. You've given me fresh inspiration to investigate a private assessment.

[@creativesolutionstoart]

As an autistic mother of two autistic boys, one teenager and one adult, I think this demand avoidance thing is absolutely debilitating. for myself, it just takes a lot of planning and forethought and going over in my mind all the steps as if I’ve already done it and how and when and what to expect from it. That’s how I get around it. And I can only do it for a limited amount of say, days in a row before I experience burn out really need a huge break. But I figure out a way to work around it… My oldest son has this so bad, that you have to ask him some thing days in advance and if you need him to do some thing on the same , And absolutely won’t get done. So asking him for help is super frustrating and feels very personal especially when I have a certain need for him to contribute in the house.… It’s very hard not to take it personally or feel like he just doesn’t care. It also doesn’t help that he is in full denial of his autism. While my youngest son and I are both receiving services and appropriate support.

[@singingtree7619]

This is so helpful. I am watching this so I can support my nephew who is autistic. I suffer from complex trauma and also have this tendency very strongly (didn't know there was a name for it). It's taken me double the time to finish my PhD. I haven't handed in a piece of work on time once in 6 years. Once the deadline has passed, I relax and think, 'now I can work on it.'

[@orionkelly]

I can relate to that. I’m grateful it’s helpful for you.

[@tnijoo5109]

Congrats on finishing! Were your professors understanding about giving you extra time? I would love that.

[@cornishmaid9138]

I describe it to others as needing my ducks in a row. And if someone moves or removes one of the ducks I can’t perform or complete the task. It will cause me to be anxious because now, to them, I’m being difficult, or ridiculous, or confrontational, etc. it often causes an argument. Then I feel overwhelmed. But they just don’t get it, and neither did I until I learned I’m on the spectrum. 👍

[@orionkelly]

💯

[@juru-chanmusic1277]

I have experienced this all the time. It's like a wall 🧱 that you can't get through. I know for a fact forcing it makes my anxiety way worse I usually have a panic attack the whole time doing the task.

[@Sharonmxg]

I did not know there was a name for this manifestation. I have never been able to articulate this problem. This condition manifests in my life almost daily. I cannot overstate the degree of validation this video has given this 56 year old woman wondering if I fall on the spectrum. Thank you so much.

[@sorekcazimi]

crying, cheering, screaming, feeling seen, etc. at how incredibly well this describes a huge aspect of what i’ve been struggling with for for the past few years. i’m so, so glad to have an explanation for it. but i’m also bitterly mourning how many opportunities and relationships have been ruined because i couldn’t explain why i ~just couldn’t DO~ certain things once people put pressure and expectations on me (or i perceived as much)

[@VEB415]

Completely agree that demand avoidance is a trait as you describe. As a teacher, I have encountered children with diagnosed PDA but a while ago became convinced that my adult son also has this in a lesser form. Your explanation is so helpful to my understanding. Thank you.

[@pmccord9]

I recognize me! Thanks. I'm 71 and for most of my life, I've believed I was bipolar and/or classically depressed. Various therapists made this diagnosis. This year, with more education and with no psychotherapist available for my income group (lowest quintile: shrinks don't take Medicare), I've reassessed myself, and I'm certainly autistic, not so much that other stuff. This explains why neurotransmitter drugs don't work. They all make me sick. Adderall absolutely helps overcome Demand Avoidance. So does Oxycodone. Neither is an optimal therapy to my way of thinking. Maybe knowing a little better how my brain works, I'll strategize or at least cope better. I have difficulty recognizing faces in public, I hate crowds and their cacophonies, I cannot stay on any schedule unless other people need my assistance, and Demand Avoidance has meant I haven't paid taxes some years, my income fluctuates dangerously, and I'm difficult to live with. I live alone and expect to die alone. Nevertheless, this past few years, I've taught myself to pay better attention to emotions on faces, to stop interrupting other people, and to at least notice when my brain autopilot tells me "You can just do that later," which is my procrastination trigger.

[@vg3596]

Wow. This hit home... So it's not just that "oh she's stubborn/ independent/doesn't like to be told what to do"! It's literally like as soon as the demand or request or expectation is put "out there", my brain spasms, seizes up. In a way, it's almost like the second it's no longer just because i want to do x, y, z, the brain acts like it's suddenly gotten "stage fright" (but minus the actual fright). I've never realized there was a name for this trait!

[@Lord_Runes]

This is 100% accurate of my issues i've struggled with my entire life and especially with my parents. More my Dad. I could not have explained this in a better way.

[@jackydahlhaus2850]

Thanks, Orion, for all your videos. I was diagnosed at 55+ yo, and your videos help me and my partner understand why I am the way I am. They are an eye opener, verbalising things I have struggled with but had no words for. Thank you so much for what you're doing. You rock! 😊👍❤️

[@smicketysmoo]

Have been struggling with this for years - the cause of much trauma. Internalised ableism has led me to very low self esteem through "failing" to meet demands, and worse, for years before ASD diagnosis. Had heard of PDA before this video, and definitely resonate with your related experiences - including autistic burnout causing it to be more prevalent in my own behaviour. Thank you for adding to this conversation, it does help.

[@benicio1967]

I have never considered myself autistic but I can say that when I was in college it was the most miserable, and I do mean MISERABLE, experience of my life. In my mind every day felt like a minefield because I knew I was at every teachers’ mercy. On any given day they could demand anything of you and you knew you simply had to do it. Speeches and group projects were absolutely unbearable for me. I remember one semester they told the class we’d each be required to teach an entire chapter which amounted to a 1 to 2 hour long lesson. As the days passed and my day drew closer I began to experience anxiety so bad that I felt like a caged animal. I couldn’t bear the thought of a room full of people staring at me so I knew I’d have to say something soon to relieve myself of the mounting stress I was experiencing on a daily basis as I desperately dreaded facing the class. I finally went to the teacher one day and just told her I’d take a zero. She was stunned and I was so dejected and inconsolable. I felt like such a quitter and I knew it was so unfair that I would be off the hook while everyone else was forced to face their punishment. As I told her I just couldn’t do it you would have thought I had insulted her. She was quick to tell me my refusal to teach a chapter would result in my failing the class because it was going to count for 50% of the grade but given my intense state of panic I told her that was ok, I didn’t care and to just put me down for a zero. I simply could not get up in front of people for an hour. The stress would be impossible to cope with for me. Thankfully I wasn’t the only one upset about this unreasonable assignment. Later I found out she was reported to the administration by many of the students. I still got an F in the class. I knew right then and there I had my limits and if it crossed over a certain stress threshold that I couldn’t cope with I’d simply avoid the situation altogether. I felt so petty and immature for taking such a strong stand by refusing to do the required assignment but public speaking has always been a line I was unwilling to cross. When I was told I’d have to give a long report my senior year in high school I requested to be transferred to another class and that teacher was so furious about it and he took it so personally that he made it a point to humiliate me in front of the class before I left to go to the other teacher’s room. Those teachers had no idea how horribly they impacted my self image because they truly made me feel like I was just a rebellious bratty student who simply wanted to have my way but it truly wasn’t that simple. I had paralyzing terror of standing before people. It wasn’t a mild case of typical nervousness. It was debilitating. I’d lie awake night after night trying to sleep for weeks on end and I would pace for hours any time I knew in advance I’d have to give a speech or a presentation. I felt the judgement and resentment of every single one of those teachers and eventually I dropped out of college for good in my third year. The constant uncertainty of what assignments were coming around the corner next just grew to be too much for me to handle any more and I knew my college days were over.

[@michaelbrockelhurst4227]

You might want to talk to a specialist about ADHD. What you're describing here are note-for-note adult ADHD behaviors.

[@raeoflight3086]

How terrible. I'm so sorry, id have a very similar reaction that sounds incredibly stressful!!

[@The_Gnome_Chomskee]

Thank you, Orion. I’ve never understood this aspect of myself until I saw this video. It also made communication with my wife easier. Man, if only I knew about this when I was a kid.

[@jaz398]

EXACTLY. No one I know seems to understand this. The pressure of demand. Thanks again Orion.

[@mudotter]

This one has been one of the hardest things I experience all my life. I had no words for it before recently hearing the term, demand avoidance. Its a huge brick wall that can't be climbed, can't go around it, and no one is more frustrated than me, living it. I get stuck, and then I deny myself anything good because I haven't done this thing looming over me. It so indescribable. I've spent decades reading every type of procrastination work around and they didn't work. For this one alone, I would love a formal diagnosis. It's like trying to remember something, but then you get emotional. You just released chemicals that guarantee you won't remember!! So the only fix is to let it go and get on with other things, then what you wanted to remember comes to you. So it is with the DA. You have to go relax, give it space, and you might be able to ease into it in time. Or you have to trade off that activity with someone else.

[@Kingpin1880]

I didn't know that I wanted someone to put this into words as badly as I did until I saw this video. This explains so, SO much, about my childhood (and to a lesser extent, adulthood) behaviour.

[@sixevensage7004]

I avoid everyone now and now I feel more freedom and happiness. Ive always known Im different than my peers. Now that I am alone and able to think for myself. Im not sure if Im autistic but I feel I fit in your channel. ❤

[@andreaharmon8931]

My husband would always create spaces for me to nap after each baby was born. He even would take the other kids out. I was desperately tired from sleep deprivation but when he creared these spaces there was so much pressure to nap right then and there that o often never got a nap or not a very long or restful one. I hated it so much and felt guilt when I'd tell him I didn't end up napping. I think I gaslit myself telling myself I was being stubborn.

[@orionkelly]

💯

[@theyxaj]

That sounds so hard to go through! It makes me wonder if demand avoidance ties into me not being able to sleep on nights before morning meetings where I intentionally want to be rested. Thanks for sharing and I hope you can figure out a way for things to be less upsetting in the future :)

[@Bliss20244]

This!!! I didn't sleep for year's because of this. My husband tried so hard and couldn't sleep because I felt like it's a demand. And this is why bedtime is so hard because I'm autistic and my daughter as well. I know we need a lot of sleep, but I just can't deal with demand and even worse is to demand something for my kid.

[@andreaharmon8931]

@@Bliss20244 yeah all my kiddos are between the ages of 10-3 now and I still can't "freely" nap when I need it in the moment. I feel like it needs to be "scheduled" in but if it is then it pretty much doesn't happen because it feels like a demand. Having a nap that just happens is a magical, beautiful thing for me.

[@QziQza]

i have never heard of demand avoidance.. but omg, that explains so much.. so so much! for me, being asked if i am able to do a thing, is totally different to being asked to do that thing now, the former is a question i can comfortably answer.. in great detail! the latter is an almost universal "not now" sometimes i can explain the reason.. planning, resources, lack of focus, and time available, other times its just a void. i have similar problems with how i am asked questions.. a good example of that is doctors visits.. my old doctor always asked, how i had been since my last visit, and made a point of asking about specific symptom's, my new doctor always asks "how can i help you today?" my old doctor understood me really well, and knew how to get the information he needed out of me.. i used to see him every 2wks. my new doctor always leaves me stuck in a loop, in my head I'm cycling between "i don't think you can" and "you are my doctor, you tell me" i haven't seen her in over 2yrs. i never think my response, i just respond.. i do all the thinking in replay, after i am free of the interaction, or there is an interruption where i am no longer the focus. it has been problematic on so many levels, to the point of relationship destructing, but knowing it for what it is, while not able to fix the past, will aide my future.. many thanks

[@steelcutoaths3033]

This video has helped me realize that my dad isn't being stubborn. Thank you.

[@francesbaker7233]

Thanks for this brilliant video. It completely explains to me how I feel when a demand or expectation is placed upon me.

[@orionkelly]

Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@MakeXRC]

Interesting. I just figured that I was more intrinsically motivated than extrinsically motivated. In college, I helped get my grades up by avoiding external pressures. Although I haven't been diagnosed with autism, demand avoidance sounds like why I rarely could finish my homework in grade school. The more my parents and teachers pressured me, the less able I was to complete it. Low pressure environments had the opposite effect, where I would voluntarily do more work. In almost every other way, I was a conscientious kid and they couldn't detect any learning disabilities,. This might be the reason why. Thanks for discussing this topic. It's given me something to think about.

[@0hffs]

I knew it! When I was a kid, throwing out the garbage was and actually STILL is a debilitating task. It’s absolutely so minuscule of a task, something I have absolutely no problem doing at volunteering my time to do at someone else’s home without question, but as soon as I get home and I have to throw away my own trash bag away… NOPE! At the very least I can confirm that when I told my parents that “I can’t!” as a kid, I TRULY meant it.

[@linda_sue]

I've only now discovered this concept. I recognize how it shuts down my own performance. It's pretty deadly for productivity that's needed to earn a basic income. The income provides a safe place (home) where I can avoid demands from others, but I've discovered just now that I demand things of myself and use the anxiety of no income, losing my home, etc. to browbeat myself and make it worse. This is very useful to understand at last. My curious mind took a side trip, also. We are, as societies, overrun currently with a subset of citizens who basically cannot stand rules and throw violent fits. I'm too tired now to explore that idea further but it feels important.

[@madnessintomagic]

You’ve illustrated perfectly the divide between two sets of neuro-divergents. We all know the neurotypical are the disordered ones. But then you have one group of we NDs who recognize it in ourselves and others, work on it and have empathy for it. While on the other end, as you mentioned, there are people who either *don’t* recognize their own ND, or refuse to accept it, and *absolutely* have no empathy for any aspect of it in others. So they’re just filled with rage and defiance and wouldn’t accept the reason why even if we explained it to them, because their political/social indoctrination is too strong.

[@LetsGoChaseThatTrain]

Thank you! You just explaned a behaviour that I've had for most of my life, although it's become steadily worse with age.

[@greylizard1040]

My autistic person also has ADD. I've tried letting stuff pile up that needs doing until it becomes a health hazard and impossible to function around, not saying or asking anything of them, hoping they will see that it needs doing. They seem content to live that way. I've tried just doing it all and not expecting any help from them. That works but it burns out my spirit and makes me very depressed. The thing that works the best that I've found, is making a chore schedule beside the calendar with flexible dates in which we both have a choice of when to get things done within a reasonable amount of time. It also serves as a way to stay accountable for what we do or don't do. The results of the chore schedule have been amazing. Even when they don't do all of their share of chores, it's still been such an improvement I don't mind.

[@hollyadkins4729]

We have a chore list on the refrigerator hoping this would eliminate constant reminders and stress. We had a family meeting on it and everyone thought it was a good idea. No one looks at it. I feel so defeated. Any advice? The line is very blurred. It’s hard to know if it’s the disability or defiance.

[@greylizard1040]

@@hollyadkins4729 If your autistic person is very young, like a child, teen, or young adult I am not sure what to suggest. Mine is actually my ex and my roommate, so he is an adult that I have the choice to move away from if he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain, and he wouldn't want that because I have taken care of the household and responsibilities for a very long time and always been more than fair with him. I will say that they do not like change. I've heard that making the chore list colorful, fun and flashy can help. I used stickers for mine. I would recommend doing more research on it online as well as asking either a professional on autism, or maybe talk to a few adults with autism about what would have gently motivated them. I wish you the best of luck.

[@darrenelmore3425]

Thank you for your channel. I'm a bit of an oldie here at 53 but I was just diagnosed in the last couple of years and I'm just now really understanding a lot of what that means. I always just assumed I was simply a broken, lazy, unlikeable person destined for failure and thats not a great way to live but your channel is really teaching me about myself and I can't express the gratitude I feel.

[@kevinedw2002]

I'm 56 and was only recently diagnosed. As with you, I never lived up to my early potential, hated myself for being stupid and/or lazy, and just struggled being in the world. Before my diagnosis, I told someone that I felt like an alien impersonating a human being, and that there was so much that people take for granted that I simply didn't understand. I am still coming to terms with having ADHD/autism, but if nothing else it has allowed me to be kinder to myself and at least give me an understanding as to why I have struggled for most of my life

[@DianaThirring]

I’ve struggled with this my whole life. Thank you for giving me words to describe it. 😊

[@DavidBichoHasBeard]

This blew my mind. I have NEVER even saw the pattern behind when and when not I am super creative/productive… Thank you for putting important pieces of the puzzle together!

[@和平和平-c4i]

This is exactly me during burnout. I've never heard anybody explaining it as precisely as you. It is the first time I feel like someone understand me and my procrastination.