Understanding The Divine Council And The Nephilim with Doug Van Dorn

In this episode of Theology Applied, Doug Van Dorn joins the show to explain the biblical account of the “divine council,” and how it relates to the nephilim.
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[@dustindentremont7056]

I was entirely on board except for the Michael being Jesus. Nope nope nope

[@Hammer7.62]

Thanks for the heads up. I won't be wasting my time with this.

[@kai6xx]

Agreed 👍

[@anthonygamboa3146]

You're over simplifying what he said. You need to actually listen to how he explains it, remember names werent and aren't JUST names, they had meaning and description and attributes to the name / word. I understand what he means, and its plausible without being heretical.

[@markharris27]

@@anthonygamboa3146 Michael is not Jesus, Just as Adam in not Jesus, nor is Joseph Jesus. Names are given to individuals, not to be twisted by man to give new meaning and confluences to nonsense.

[@genkimachina]

Heiser came to speak at my town once on his Unseen Realm book tour. I had no idea who he was at the time. I walked out of his seminar forever, which changed in my understanding of scripture.

[@radiomanze1296]

Same

[@jdc4483]

Doug has immediate credability with me due to his “Hulk Hands” behind him on the bookshelf, over his right shoulder.

[@jamesbartu7803]

Actually a deeper mystery to me. While wearing Hulk hands It IS possible to spin the globe to his left, but not wield the sword above his head, nor play the guitars to his far right. My interpretation is that the Hulk hands are symbolic and not to be literally worn.

[@jdc4483]

@@jamesbartu7803 🤣

[@timcummiskey1178]

And the 3 guitars and banjo!

[@notheorytrue]

All credibility is lost with the globe.

[@DetVen]

​@@notheorytrue Umm, flat earther?

[@pvb777]

Yes! So glad you decided to invite Doug on the podcast!

[@jackjones3657]

Tolkien was a brilliant storyteller. It is so fascinating to realize he incorporated Christianity into many of his fantasy narratives. The dangers of lust of the eyes, flesh, pride of life seen in many characters, the concept of redemption and grace amidst failure. . . . Very Christ-like. It is time the Church reclaim the Arts and their unique way of conveying Truth.

[@NobleEdward]

Welcome to "Unseen Realm"! 🎉

[@DeaconBean]

Yeey Heiser and Doug! How do these men feel bout women? 1 Tim 3:11. Female deacons.

[@Navarrator10]

​@@DeaconBean Heiser said that he could argue either way, and once challenged someone to "make him care" about the subject.

[@DeaconBean]

@@Navarrator10 sounds like slander

[@Navarrator10]

@@DeaconBean please explain. He said this on his Naked Bible Podcast

[@DeaconBean]

@@Navarrator10 cite it

[@dylanmilks]

Man, these talks are so fascinating! Thank you, Pastor Joel!

[@chriskintner5173]

Absolutely!!

[@marnycoggins4535]

I started a Master’s degree in History and started to realize many, many things of supernatural incidence, there was some “truth” that just can’t be excused away.

[@joshgravlee]

Same her. While getting my history degree and teachers license I slowly went from a Pre-mill to a Post Post Amillennial, from knowing the bible and seeing the events of history that already happened.

[@Sardious]

When you read the aneid you'll get ideas like what they talk about here where regions like where try was and where future Rome will be have a god assigned by a "Lord of heaven" to those areas. This Lord seems to also be above the council of gods that are working for or against the Trojans and Italians and latins for control of the area. So these concepts are there in home and plato and Virgil and Sumeria and such. It's that thing that when From Early like Moses and Job and such to much later like Daniel and Virgil. To even later like Thomas Martyr and many Earl Church writers are all saying something similar.....we have to consider the spiritual world.

[@marnycoggins4535]

I have loved Greek Mythology. Started reading it in high school and I got to college and realized these people actually practiced that as a religion it blew my mind. Usually where there is smoke there will be fire.

[@marnycoggins4535]

Amen.

[@daveonezero6258]

Then take that and see that it is all over the world. And those places are in the last few hundred years being exposed to the One True God and his Son.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

​@@daveonezero6258 I love reading the history of various Nations and seeing them go from under the thrall of pagan demons to becoming worshippers of Christ. Big things happen!😎👍🏻

[@dkzabe1121]

This discussion really makes you think and just opens up the scriptures in so many ways …. we tend to be too rigid in our thinking!

[@danielg7868]

After listening to Heiser, I watched Lord of the Rings again and my thought was "Wow Tolkien knew this divine counsel, fallen angel view well".

[@RightResponseMinistries]

😂

[@adamjduran1]

I’ve been studying Dr Heisers work over the last year. Very provocative, to say the least. This was a great compliment to that, thank you Pastor Joel and RR ministries.

[@billiamnotbob]

I read Heiser's The Unseen Realm and thoroughly enjoyed it. It made SENSE and it also made me ponder these things. His admonission to think like a 1st century Jew also made a lot of sense. It opened a whole new way of looking at my Bible. Heiser always said he didn't want to protect people from their Bible's. Unfortunately, many people refuse to even consider it. I think my advantage was that I was never locked into a 'system' having come to Christ in my mid 30's. By that time I'd seen much that many never do. It kept my mind open to possibilities as well as humbled enough to know that I don't know 'everything', nor does anyone else! It's a difficult step to take but it IS rewarding.

[@bobthomas1536]

I don’t believe in a lot of the Calvinist doctrine BUT this is a home run. I like the late Mike Hesier and he is missed. It’s refreshing to hear this kind of understanding of the divine counsel coming from Joel. Those who reject it miss out on half the Bible and the richness of Gods glory. It’s truly right there in the word. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

[@sethfarmer590]

Heiser was not a Calvinist.

[@bobthomas1536]

@@sethfarmer590 I know.

[@daveonezero6258]

Why preface it with the "calvinist"?

[@bobthomas1536]

@@daveonezero6258 because I’m watching a reformed channel, I agree with the content of this video but not everything on the channel. Finding this channel and agreeing with some content doesn’t mean I agree with the full tenets of Calvin. I’m open to listening. That’s what that means.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

​@@bobthomas1536Yeah, Calvinism is whack.

[@masterofshadows8904]

Michael Heiser vibes, love it!

[@DeaconBean]

Yup. Too many Xtian have no supernatural worldview and are fearful of Heiser. Heiserphobes. I'd call this progress, if Joel's crew didn't insist upon a 'boys only club' in his church ....counter to scriptures 1 Tim 3:11. Female deacons.

[@HusGoose]

@@DeaconBean 1 Tim literally specifies deacons are exclusively men. The women mentioned in verse 11 would be their wives. Read the context of church leaders in the preceding section. The sections of Decon follows the same flow.

[@DeaconBean]

@@HusGoose you are incorrect and displayed to not have even attempted to research the original language.

[@DeaconBean]

Lolz you logic has requirements for dcns wives but not pastors wife and that silly pronoun you can't accommodate for in 1 Tim 3:11. Don't bother yourself with study. We're low on dumb xtians. Oh wait there you are

[@DeaconBean]

@@HusGoose literally pick up an interlinear

[@chrissykats9216]

Excellent conversation. Thank you.

[@timcummiskey1178]

Another great program. Doug's books on the angel of the Lord/Christophany are excellent.

[@Joeymuggz]

I’m stoked for this!

[@davidmichael5153]

Interesting! We the people, demand more! Love the content

[@maryannblair9784]

Very interesting discussion. “Michael,” “serpentine Watcher,” and pigs losing their minds. You both made this great. Thank you.

[@Thewanderer_378]

Thanks for the information!. The late Dr Michael Heiser really connected many many dots for me with his insight into the divine council. The idea is to let the Bible be the bible and read the text within the context. Critics of Mike obviously didn't hear what he said over and over again. Scholars know all the information I'm speaking of but they don't teach it. He definitely had the credentials to teach what he did. Carry on with the truth. ❤❤❤

[@sarahjones79]

Yay for Paxmail 🙏🏻 waiting for such a youtube too 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@rachelmarks796]

Love Doug!! This is a great convo!

[@stephencooper5040]

57:41 a serpent with legs sounds like a dragon.

[@RightResponseMinistries]

Yes

[@sarahconnor4757]

If you look in Job, hes clearly describing a dragon like creature. Says when he sneezes fire comes forth

[@Thebravemovement]

Very insightful. Great podcast 👊🏼

[@mrsellenj.a1740]

I have often thought that the story's of the Greek gods were fallen and the children of the fallen , this is awesome information and insight, much love and appreciation God bless you and your beautiful families Jesus Christ is king 👑💕 God bless

[@ranbran2948]

Let us make man in our image, is the Triune God, void of any other counsel. In the image of ‘who?’ He made them. In the image of God, He made them. To say that He was saying to multiple creatures, let us make man in all of our image, does not fit, does not follow. As brother Voddie would say, “that dog won’t hunt”.

[@ryanware3796]

Ive been enjoying and learning from both doug and joel over the past several months because of haunted cosmos. Having both in one show was pretty great! Thank you!

[@angelmoncada382]

Holy... That point about Michael is super fascinating to ponder.

[@joya6891]

I am currently reading Brian Gadawa’s books now! Such fascinating books and really puts flesh on so many biblical scriptures.

[@wendythompson1529]

It is so great to hear a conversation on the time before the great flood. I think that hold the secrets to our past. And it is never taught. Thank you for publishing this.

[@johnmoore2056]

Interesting content.

[@rbmath]

Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" .... "Lord" in the New Testament is always Jesus, This speaks of TWO individuals. Unless he can prove in this case it's not speaking about Jesus as Lord in this passage. He would still have problems with the first part of the verse, "But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment," If Michael is simply another name for Jesus, and Jesus is YAHWEH, Than WHY did Michael / Jesus simply say with the authority of YAHWEH God, "I rebuke you"... Personally, I think it's heretical. Personally, all this Nephilim speculation is going to far. The bible gives very little information on this and going to other non inspired books does not help. How do you know they were not exaggerating, the stories simply got bigger when they were past down from generation to generation. Doug Van Dorn speculation is going too far. If I was a member of his church I would leave, I was a member of cult once and this to me is going way too far, when the bible has very little information on this we should not go. All this feeding is unhealth speculation about what God gives very little information on. It could lead others astray. JW's were right but also wrong... Could lead weak Christians into looking at what else do JW's have that could be right but also wrong, and lead them away from God right into the hands of a cult...

[@joshjames4247]

Valid points. Good questions

[@MariaWalker-qo3vi]

I like that “the word myth means it’s just an origin story.” I worked with a woman in her 70’s, who was raised in Greece, and she said in grade school, she was taught that Greek “mythology” was their history.

[@kristinlowther6260]

I do not agree that Jesus is Michael and it seems dangerous to teach that to people. An angel is a created being and Christ is God, The Creator. Jesus is not an angel and yet scripture states clearly in Jude 1:9 that Michael is. Furthermore, in that scripture it says Michael was contending with the devil and did not pronounce a blasphemous judgement on him and instead said The Lord rebuke you. If Michael were Christ he would have the power to rebuke the devil because Christ is God and equal with The Father.

[@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar]

You didn't listen. That's not what the guy said. He spoke of a title used, that was used to describe both. Just as Jesus has many titles, so Michael was called by different titles. Scripture also says that Jesus would be called the Everlasting Father. Does that make Jesus the Father? No, obviously not. Was that prophecy still fulfilled? Yes. Just as the Father is called different titles. So as Satan has had different titles throughout history. Try listening to understand, not to respond.

[@nightrider963]

Nothing that you said contradicts what @kristinlowther6260 said. Scripture clearly states that Satan is a created being and also Michael did not have the authority to fully rebuke Satan. Christ is not a created being and Christ is “Lord” so Michael would not have deferred to the lord if he was indeed Christ, he would have had full authority to rebuke Satan then and there.

[@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar]

@@nightrider963 he never said that Michael was ever called Lord. Do you not understand English? Angel of the Lord, does not say that that Angel is either Lord or not the Lord. It says "of the", which means "originating from", not is that thing. Humans are the "dust of the earth", we are not the earth, but we do originate from dust. Micheal and any other Angel, are indeed Angels of the Lord, because they originate from Him. Duh. Use some logic instead of trying to be right. Try again. Don't be like a lefty and get triggered. Instead, actually listen or read to understand.

[@nightrider963]

@@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar I am nit the least bit triggered, and I understand English perfectly. I am not the one who has to attempt to demean others to try to win his point. Before I go any further can you answer these questions; Are you saying that Doug VanDorn was only saying that Christ and Michal shared a similar title such as an Angel of the Lord ?? Do you agree or disagree that Michael and Christ is one and the same. ??? It seems that we are talking past one another because none of my points had anything to do with the “Angel of the Lord” however I have studied the subject deeply and will tespond with scriptural support that addresses your answers.

[@kristinlowther6260]

@@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar I find it interesting you use insults to make your point. It’s a reflection of your current character. That is something you would be wise to ponder and bring before the Lord in prayer. If you are a brother in Christ then you know we are not to be insulting when speaking with other brothers and sisters in the faith. If another believer is wrong then bring forth the truth with grace, if you can’t do that then choose silence. Also, making insults makes you lose credibility in the points you are trying to make. Others would be more likely to hear you out and consider your words if you weren’t insulting them.

[@1stkazoo754]

Game changing

[@beaucomptonsilver]

Thanks!

[@RightResponseMinistries]

Thank you!!

[@JLLove]

I would have appreciated taking the time to have anyone on this discussion clearly differentiate between their working theories and speculations from their Biblically based analysis. This guest seemed to speak everything so matter-of-factly…no matter his topic

[@RitaVernoy]

Read The Unseen Realm by Dr Michael Heiser.😊

[@josephtabar492]

Thank you brothers this is march tenth. Heavens Gate is the cult you couldn't remember. Please pray for me I have cerBraley Palsy and COPD from years of smoking.i quit 3 years ago,but the damage was done. I been in the hospital's ICU 3 times from acute lung failure. This is torture.i am alone.My family is gone. It's frightening when you Or fighting for your next breath of air, but I called on Jesus in my desperate and he saved from death 3 times in the last 30 days. I have no help besides Jesus. NY church hasn't even visited me. That really hurt my ♥. I love your program.I want you a lot, Because I can't get this kind teaching at the church. I attend when I am able due to too health. I just want my flesh and blood family to cand and my church take care also.. I spent my life doing for everybody else And now that my health is Failing me no one is there..... I truly know that Jesus is comi.Mean very soon very soon.Because time is past short.

[@sarahharrison2698]

God loves you and so do all of your brothers and sisters in Christ! I love you brother and I am praying for God to help you in anyway that you need!!❤❤❤❤

[@owlfethurz8377]

"You draw near in the day that I called on Thee. You said "fear not". O Lord, you have pleaded the case of my soul; you have redeemed my life". Prayers for you and for blessings and comfort from the Lord. And I pray that family and church will visit you.

[@juanesparza3810]

Nice 👍🏽

[@HusGoose]

Great content! This is important since more and more people are having supernatural experiences coming into contact with “beings” who apparently have a lot to say. So understanding origin stories of common supernatural beings can be helpful. It’s most important for people in these situations to know Christ is king over all and the strongman has been bound, on a leash. There’s freedom in Christ and Christ alone, everything else is bondage.

[@oekmama]

At about 18:55, Doug is talking about Adam and Eve hiding among trees of the garden. Well that brings to mind the blind man, who Jesus healed with pure saliva, and he sees too well. He sees „men like trees.“

[@jackfrost2978]

What is "Reformed"? Every time i look it up. Lots of words with very little in defining thought, are given on every website i have looked at. From what i can tell. There are a number of opinions the host has that i would disagree with. However, his willingness to have on guests that maybe just outside of his comfort zone, and desire to learn the bible with willingness to hear out challenging ideas. Is what has kept me coming back for a number of talks, and discussions.

[@Redeemed.of.YHVH.thru.Christ]

“Reformed”, is Protestant churches based on the teachings of the Reformers, who broke away from the Roman Catholic Church, like Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. The only problem is, we’re supposed to be following the teachings of God’s Word, not the teachings of man. That’s why many Protestant churches are apostate today, because they preach the doctrine of men, rather doing as scripture commands, and preach the Word of YHVH directly from the ßißle. Not feel good sermons about how Jesus wants endless riches and blessings for you in this life, which has no basis in scripture. Jesus promises us that we will have really difficult times if we choose to serve Him, and preach the true gospel, and the truth of His Word. He says the world will despise us for our testimony of Him, and we’ll be hàted for His name’s sake. The disciples certainly never experienced all those riches and endless blessings the prosperity preachers proclaim, because it’s not biblical. A lot of these Protestant believers deny the events of Genesis 6, and the creation of the giants through faIlen angels and human women mating, even though it’s sound doctrine, and it’s discussed elsewhere in scripture.

[@jackfrost2978]

@@Redeemed.of.YHVH.thru.Christ Thank you for taking the time to share this insight. Does the reformed community have a united stance on the creation account. As in 6 literal days of creation or other interpretation?

[@simplearthling]

When they say "Reform" they actually mean Calvinism. It's a philosophy of belief of how God does things. Calvinism is another flavor of Christianity. And it is absolutely false. All Protestants or modern Christians "reformed" out of the Roman Catholic church. That's the general meaning. But thats not what they mean when these modern Pastors and Teachers say reform, they mean Calvinism. It's an ugly doctrine that they hide under a number of names to make it more palatable. Search T.U.L.I.P. and John Calvin then you will know.

[@jackfrost2978]

@@simplearthling Thank you for the information. i'm aware of calvinism. It took me a bit to work through. i do not remember hearing the connection between reformed and calvinist before. In small doses i don't mind calvinists. When taken too far. It is horribly egotistical.

[@hammerbarca6]

@@jackfrost2978Toby sumpter has a 6 part sermon series that was recently released called “what is reformed anyway” and I think it would be helpful!

[@RyanJanelle]

Also, when you realize we are the fallen ones… you will begin to gain wisdom.

[@gangelo2787]

Love this channel. But I love Christ Jesus more 😂👍🏻❤️

[@natalierobinson7055]

Very interesting conversation. Lost me with Michael being Jesus tho, but I enjoyed this.

[@UnderTheFloor79]

Heiser taught that God became a lowercase g god as part of the council. In that sense, his lowercase god nature would certainly have been a created sort of like Jesus's human nature was created. Not only that, Heiser believed that people would become gods as well. He also said that the old testament has to be interpreted though the lense of Babylonian religions. Heiser was a heretic.

[@simplearthling]

@@UnderTheFloor79 Well, the Pharisees also called Jesus a heretic so there you go. Things you ppl don't understand u start throwing boogeyman words. We believers in Yeshua will rule will him when heaven comes to earth. The bible says we will rule over angels! That essentially makes us "gods" lowercase "g". I think you're just stuck on the word "god." It just means spirit beings in the Hebrew, i.e. elohim. They call GOD elohim, angels elohim, and deceased human spirits as elohim... aka a god, a spirit being, not THE GOD Almighty, or the Great Spirit, Who's proper name is JeHoVaH.

[@simplearthling]

@@UnderTheFloor79 The Archangel Michael "could" be Jesus. Jesus wasn't Jesus until he was born in the flesh. So I guess Michael could be Jesus in Spirit and angel form cuz the name or title, Michael = Who is Like God is probably Yeshua Jesus, because no one is like God but the Son, Yeshua Jesus. And "angel" is a title and position, not the noun for a flying chub with wings. Like saying "Kernel" it's a military position, not the KFC guy. So the "angel" of the Lord means the "messenger" of the Lord, or in effect His emissary, and who can be the emissary of God but God Himself? Therefore Yeshua Jesus. If you do the studies on "the angel of the Lord" in the old testament, you will also find that likely that was also Yeshua Jesus. He is the ultimate commander-in-chief that led all the patriarchs into battle with the giants and clearing those lands for his people, the Israelites. These are some of the things of God that you don't know and think of Him (Jesus) as just the lamb. But you don't know that He was also the Lion of Judah, Yeshua Jesus the one True God and King of Kings, the Warrior of Heaven and Commander-in-Chief of Heaven and Earth and He played different "positions" at different times. There are so many facets of our wonderful God, may all Glory and Honor be unto Him, King Yeshua forever and ever Amen!

[@bobthomas1536]

@@UnderTheFloor79 That is a complete misrepresentation of what he says. His opinion is, ancient pagan text of the nations that surrounded Israel had similar phrasing and concepts because of when they lived and where they lived. He’s very clear that these phrases were used by the writers of the Old Testament to fight back against the pagan war with Yahweh. The text gave the readers of the Old Testament context. I can walk into a Christian bookstore and find thousands of books that are not canon that use secular themes to demonstrate Christian truth in their books. It’s the same thing. For example a Christian author may quote a well-known atheist to make a point, they may put that quote in their book and then use analysis to debunk the quote. The atheist words are now in the Christian writers book. We see it all the time, that’s what Heiser is talking about. Also Heiser did not say that God demotes himself to sit on a council. Just a basic reading of the Bible tells you that “Jesus was made a little lower than the angels”. But he is still God! Did he demote himself in this case? Of course not.

[@messiahsmisfit33]

I wish Joseph Campbell were alive at the same time as doctor Heiser was so that so they could discuss the divine council and what it means Mythologically, that would be a great discussion.

[@1966ldm]

The power’s & principalities are classes of angels! Your connecting dots for me- the Tartarus from Plato is the Tart-aria myth of the lost continent! That’s where the giants were, the land of the giants! And the shining serpent people explained things, also the DEEP reference! Wow, everything happens for a reason. There are no accidents

[@kimmarierussell3802]

Kept seeing Judgement of the Nephilim and The Final Nephilim by Ryan Pitterson listed when I was in Amazon’s books…bought them both and now in the second book which deals more w/prophecy in the last days…fascinating and he has certainly done his research…very biblically based. Would love to see him on a Right Response podcast…

[@Smokey223]

Very interesting conversation. I think SDA also believes that Jesus is Michael/the Angel of the Lord. But they believe he is God, the second of the Trinity. It is very interesting and there are passages in the scriptures that seem to point to this being so.

[@1966ldm]

That’s why they had the living trees in the wizard of oz !!

[@sallyeripkowski8451]

Thank you so much for the stimulating conversation. I don’t find many minds to discuss things such as these with. One thing I have been interested and perplexed with. I think y’all can offer some information. Where did the population of the Earth come from that Cain had to be protected from when he was cast out of Eden? 🤔

[@wallywest001]

As a Fellow Reformed Baptist, I have the same views as Doug Van Dorn.

[@captainneeda1980]

My theory is that when a nation is converted to Christianity the fallen Angel that rules that nation is overthrown and one of the saints, who are ruling with Christ, becomes the ruler of that nation. I think this is where the idea of Patron Saints comes from. So, Christian nations like Norway and America no longer have fallen Angels ruling over them, but an unconverted nation like India is still ruled by a fallen Angel.

[@teashacarlson5295]

It was good up to the part where Michael is referred to Jesus

[@austinreed5375]

I believe Matthew Henry and Matthew Poole believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus. Not sure what I think, but Henry and Poole are solid.

[@DanSSwing]

Gentry's Revelation Commentary IS available for pre-order now and should be released within a month. "The Divorce of Israel"

[@markhattendorf3378]

I want to re-ask the question; Were the Sons of God who were assigned to rule over the nations the same ones who originally rebelled against God in the begining. . . . or, were they "good guys" who, once they became rulers over geographical territories, became corrupt? Were there multiple rebellions by these Sons of God?

[@kevinbrackett101]

When Jesus sent the demons into the pigs, that was the first recorded instance of deviled ham!

[@harryweatherford8411]

When it comes to the serpent, one thing of note is that seraphim means flaming serpent.

[@A.S.K.1986]

Very interesting interview. A lot of "wow... Never thought about it that way" moments for sure. He definitely has a lot of knowledge (speaking about extra-biblical texts like the Lost Books of Adam and Eve, the Apocalypse of Abraham, First Enoch was very interesting) and has clearly done deep study. However, there were a few red flags that stuck out that I'm not sure what how to reconcile: 1) A-millenialism. I cannot believe any aware, thinking person can possibly hold the view that we are currently in some ambiguous "spiritual" millennial reign as we speak. Firstly, the Scriptures are pretty clear it's a physical, literal thousand year period where Yeshua will reign on earth with those who were killed during the Great Tribulation (I submit that is yet a future event, likely right around the corner), but secondly... Has he looked around? He himself near the beginning of this interview I believe, even said mankind has never been more wicked than it is now over the past few years. So... I'm sorry, but how you can hold that truthful observational viewpoint and also somehow claim Christ is currently reigning is absurd. 2) He's claiming God the Father, The Most High, and YHWH... Are NOT the same?! This is heretical, imho. 3) He's further claiming YHWH is Yeshua? What? Again, heretical. 4) He's claiming Michael (who he earlier described as being the one held up by the Prince of Persia) is Yeshua? And not an Archangel, which the Scriptures describe him as more than once? I'm sorry, but Jesus would not be held up by another Prince, yet a being of equal footing (I. E. An archangel vs. A fallen angel) could be. Again, heretical and just ridiculous. Otherwise, this was fascinating and I think absolutely absolutely worth listening to. Eat the meat and throw away the few bones.

[@drip369]

31:20 bound to this earth, as mentioned in Isaiah. When you mentioned the Tower of Babel being like the building of a mountain, it goes back to any pyramid structure or obelisk, being a representation of Lucifer himself trying to climb his way out yet he is bound to this earth as he has fallen. That's how he can prowl around but he cannot leave. Not even in one of those fancy flying discs😂😂😂

[@MaryTruthSeeker]

44:21 why not call Him Immanuel like they were told to? 🤷‍♀️

[@heavensent3064]

So many commercials you're just getting into listsling and boom a commercial advertisement

[@JesusPaidThePrice]

I subscribed because I like your subject matter, I unsubscribed because you have too many ads during the discussion.

[@balaamsass5540]

"Michael, one of the chief princes," - Jesus is not one of anything- he is THE ONE!

[@maddiew.6890]

Seventh Day Adventist also believe Micheal is Jesus.

[@CristinaCastilloficial]

Recap 47:13

[@GODISTRUTH77]

I was totally with this guy on everything till Michael being another name for Jesus. That was idk if that was correct then how did Michael need power from God to fight over Moses body? Hey maybe hes right. Because Jesus wasnt given all authority till after the resurrection. You know we sometimes are so use to old ideas we can have a hard time with new ones. Sorry i was having an epiphany while writing this

[@BiblicalTruth509]

Michael as another name for Christ? Sketchy stuff.. How is Jude 1:9 explained then?

[@jaanbartley5766]

Try reading the Book of Enoch. Jude 1 refers to Enoch. Hebrews 13:2 says that we entertain angels unaware, so not all angels have wings, I think only the Cherubim and Seraphim have wings.

[@MaryTruthSeeker]

26:27 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was 👉two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of Mount Chermon. CHANOK (ENOCH) 7:7

[@benyaeger4388]

The more I ask, the more I realize I don't know

[@vladyakubets]

Spurgeon also held the view that Michael was Jesus (if memory serves), in case anyone else is hearing it for the first time and wondering if it’s just a weird view.

[@HusGoose]

In context, Spurgeon was referring to the archetype of Michael as a type or shadow, foreshadowing Christ as the consummate archangel, not Michael himself. Only if we are speaking of “Angelos” meaning messenger. So arch messenger (ie the gospel) perhaps. Further Daniel 8-11 also seems to differentiate between the one “like unto a man” with “bronze skin” and Michael, who is labeled Daniel’s Prince in the same paragraph and context as a dark prince of a principality was addressed. Angels as a created beings are not Christ. Indication in John was Jesus created them. He is eternally begotten of the Father. Species unique in triune relation to the Father and Spirit.

[@fyrbill5720]

In Daniel Michael is referred to as “one of the chief princes”. Jesus is God not one of many 12:58 .

[@mannaman]

I always hit the brakes when Doug speaks!

[@user-dh3qc3pq3g]

25:26 Read a book 30 years ago (Stolen Legacy) that talked about how the Greeks sought out knowledge from around the known world, namely Egypt and Mesopotamia, and incorporated the “sacred knowledge” from the various mystery schools into the understanding of their sciences, philosophies and pantheon. Only makes sense that they would have also obtained texts of the Jews if that time and gleaned from the narrative of the singular creator I AM/God.

[@SilverliningRanch-fp5lb]

So why is Satin allowed any power still? Did God know Satin would fall and corrupt His creation. And if so, why did God creat him knowing that. Or is God not truly all knowing in that sense?

[@theNfl_Esq]

Jesus is Michael is the doctrine of Jehovas witnesses. It is a blasphemous doctrine. Not saying that was said, just clarifying for others who may not know

[@overcomingword1980]

8070?

[@stephaniefarlow1128]

It’s common knowledge if you open your mind that Michael is Jesus and created by the archangel Gabriel . I don’t know why people have to get so upset over that . I’m pretty sure that they would really be upset with some of the things I put on my channel .

[@daunemacdonald515]

Hey Boys. Interesting program. Read the Urantia Book (revelation .) you can understand so huch more about the Divine Council) etc

[@valeriej.chapin4553]

Hi, and what is, in Greek, sus? Is it not Zeus? Then would you enlighten me, as "J" wasnt around until the mid-1500s and the coming of the Jesuits, well, Messiahs name is what? Yeshua I believe. Its a real hard right turn. I enjoy your channel and the info in the discussions. Thank you both!

[@jacobhochstetler825]

The idea of the divine council is incredibly shaky. The Bible much more heavily implies that God is a supreme being that sometimes listens to his lesser created beings opinions, not that he has a formal political council of which he is the chair....

[@ParkerSmith0212]

What is the difference between the two?

[@ParkerSmith0212]

Would you consider the church formal?

[@Justaguywithtruth]

That could make logical sense, councils have always existed in the Heavens unto Earth, Even a few young men got to see it and kinda freaked out📕🔍🤔😂😄👍

[@chrismassie3493]

Every king would have a council

[@sarahconnor4757]

God is all-knowing so why would He need a council?

[@dennispitre1222]

Check The Second Coming of Saturn by Dr Derrick Glibert. He covers all of thrle myth genealogies. Good read

[@Venom-33381]

Angels are called sons of God and the fallen angels were and are the gods the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian myths are about.

[@aitornavarro6597]

29:09 if Zeus were part of this second group that wouldn't make very much sense cos in the mythos Zeus just about impregnated half of the world 😂😂

[@TheresaHoulihan]

Jesus and Michael are the same thing?

[@WendySelvig]

I would love to hear you guys discuss what seems to be all over KZbin (Israel Anderson and Billy Carson for example) that Yahweh was one of the sons of God appointed over Israel, not Jesus’s Father. That El Elyon and/or Anu is the Father, but Yahweh was a regional ruler over Israel and his character is not the same as Jesus’s Father and Jesus. Hence the demanding of murdering and raping women etc… and Jesus telling the Pharisees that their Father is a murderer. Has strong implications. Also makes sense as to whose law we were set free from. Could you dare discuss and dive into this?

[@WendySelvig]

38:49 - his allotment - this is interesting with the idea Yahweh is a son, not the Father.

[@HeavensPeace]

Certainly there is much disclosure, Bobby Collier on Good God and Paul Wallis on 5th Kind and those two as mentioned. Many more are threshing it out also.

[@pcuser2059]

The only creatures that fit the description of the serpent is a fallen seraphim.

[@prcrane11]

Jack and the bean stalk story. He was a man eater.😵‍💫😵‍💫

[@drip369]

8:05 that is true, that is where we get the word holy from; the word holy means set apart, and the Lord is the most Holy, as is there is none like Him. Also, Elohim is a plural word to represnt the Trinity, and in your contacts regarding the other created beings, you can think of the word referring to the layers when it comes to structure of creation. The word god means creator and a lot of different creations (including the ones you are calling "gods") have abilities over the physical, just like the Lord God Himself as a Man, walking on the water He created, which yes, He could have been doing it in the spiritual sense where it appears he is walking on the water but he is floating above the water, or, which would be substatially more miraculous, the Christ is changing the surface tension because He created and can manipulate whatever He wants, whenever He wants, so, He could have changed the water under His feet allowing Him to walk on a surface we cannot see, a surface nonetheless that is on the surface of the water. We do not currently possess His understanding, and I say currently because we are supposed to become more like Him after the marriage supper, so we can only speculate on what is written. Of I'm supposed to do something in His Name, which means something done in His Nature, I can speculate that beautiful miracle that could have happened while He walked this earth again, being born of a woman this time, because, yes, the Word that spoke Creation is the same Word that walked with Adam, and with Enoch, and spoke to Moses through a smokless bush, and, eventually came through the lineage of David to be born with 23 chromosomes (proven by science), to feel the pain we all endure through Eve. Then He saves us Hallel·uYah! There's a lot we don't understand but we do have a chance of gaining understanding, through our journey/relationship. I am ebthralled to have found this channel, yesterday! Great work, fellas!

[@manuelpitman]

Michael vs Satan over Moses?

[@gangelo2787]

If fallen angels don’t possess people, why did Satan enter Judas?

[@HusGoose]

Unclean spirits are not fallen angels. Different fallen creature taxonomy. The scriptural and more credible apocryphal books demonic spirits are the unclean offspring of fallen angels and human women. These beings had unique attributes and dual natures. Neither angel nor man. So when they die, they have no place to go until judgement. This explains demons, Djinn, Fae, pokwadji, wendigo, etc. all one and the same across cultures.

[@gangelo2787]

@@HusGoose I don't believe demons are fallen angels, they are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Your answer doesn't address the question. I have my thoughts on what this means; however, it'd be nice to hear what others believe God is saying here.

[@HusGoose]

@@gangelo2787 my mistake, I see what you are asking now. Based on the text it either was THE Satan (Azazel or most high fallen angel, whoever that may be), or Satan in the sense that Satan is a title for a an unclean being that is an accuser, adversary or stumbling block. A being that looks like the attributes of “legion” in the end. Either way, I don’t think we are in a position to dogmatically say angels can’t possess as they suggested in this vid. Scripture doesn’t mention it apart from the verse you reference that seems to indicate angels can in fact possess.

[@gangelo2787]

​@@HusGoose I tend to think, in the end, it was Satan in the sense of the spirit of Satan; the deceiver, adversary. "Spirit" in the sense of e.g. Luke 9:55 " 'Ye have not known of what spirit ye are;" Young's Literal Translation. Judas at that moment was about as kindred a spirit to Satan as you can get.

[@HusGoose]

@@gangelo2787 I believe you are likely correct. We will both find out in time!

[@danielg7868]

Gentry's commentary is done now.

[@Shilly-Mcshillface]

I just don't understand how anyone who has read the bible for themselves without having it taught to them by a church previously, would ever come away thinking the 'trinity' was a thing?

[@amandamckinney928]

I don't understand why some of us assume it's better to "read something on our own" than to have it taught to us? Have you ever wondered where that Bias toward individuality/self-sufficiency comes from?

[@Shilly-Mcshillface]

@@amandamckinney928 No, I haven't given it any thought, I like to think for myself.

[@marnycoggins4535]

Amen but they still need exposed to the roots by location and leadership.

[@tball3198]

Could someone there please explain a few verses of the bible to me? Starting with Matthew 16:28, then Mark. 9:1 and Luke 9:27. Then Matthew 10:23, then 23:34-36 and 26:64. And please tell me who Jesus was answering in Matthew 24, then Mark 13 and Luke 21. Also In The Lesson of the Fig Tree in Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28-31 and Luke 21:29-33; was Jesus not talking to the people of that day and Age or generation? Did Jesus not come at the appointed time to reveal the Kingdom of Heaven to mankind? Would that not make it those people of that time, Age, generation who He/Jesus was talking to and not people in and future time? Who was the book of Revelation written to? 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Is in not said over and over in the book of Revelation that Jesus was coming/returning soon, quickly and that the time was at hand as stated in Revelation chapters 1:1(shortly come to pass), 1:3(for the time [is] at hand.), 1:7;(Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.) Message to the Church in Ephesus Chapter 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. and 2:25 Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. Message to the Church in Smyrna 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Message to the Church in Pergamum 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Message to the Church in Thyatira 2: 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. Message to the Church in Sardis 3: 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Message to the Church in Philadelphia 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Message to the Church in Laodicea 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 22:7 “Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book." 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near. 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Philippians 4:5 Let your gentleness be apparent to all. The Lord is near. Hebrews 1"1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 10: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Does any scripture above sound like it was written to people many hundreds or thousands of years in the future? I think not. I believe that the Lord Jesus is the way, the Truth and the life and He did exactly as He said He would do and returned in that generation or age. That being said, then Revelation chapter 20 verses 1 to 8 have already happened and the little season of satan loosed is nearly at its end. The Millennial reign is past and there was a catching away, (incorrectly referred to as the rapture) as explained by Apostle Paul in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13 to 18 and 1st Corinthians 15:50 to 58. Concerning the anti-christ.... here is what the Apostle John had to say to the people of that day, age, generation. 1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. (This is how we know it is the last hour). 1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and (even now already is it in the world). When John states that the anti-christ is "even no already is it in the world", was he talking about then or now? Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked...

[@Tahuati369]

@tball3198 trust no man, only God. Ask the most high for discernment

[@MarkWilliams-th1ch]

Had me till the Michael thing. I'll pass this along as I do the posts of others, but not as an endorsement. Sorry Mr Dorn

[@captainmarvelmsc7692]

The self declared gnostic private calvinist Anglican man preacher host.😂