Understanding Thermodynamics to help prepare your hive for winter

Understanding the way air flows through a hive and how placement of insulation can help and hurt your hive in the winter months.
A hive acts similar to you home to expel moist air. Keeping bees dry by avoiding having condensation over their head is a key to wintering honey bees.

[@szcze]

To my knowledge, bees prefer moist air in the nest, actually (and higher levels of carbon dioxide as well). But moist air does not mean condensation. It is the condensation that we need to avoid, not moist air. All we need is to move the location of the dew point away from the nest.

[@SilvijaSilvi]

Thank you for a very informative video. I have a much better understanding now, you explain thing very clearly. 🐝

[@bradgoliphant]

Great video. thats Reflectix on the outside correct? I ordered some R-4 black wrap and plan on wrapping up my bottom entrance and leaving the top open. I have a screen bottom board yet it will have blocks on the outside to minimize the draft. The way I look at it is this: If you stand in your attic, and have only the top window cracked yet your front door on the lower floor closed, then humidity and heal will slowly ventilate out through that cracked window upstairs. Yet, if you leave that cracked window open on the top floor, then open your bottom front door, all the heat goes out the top winder crack. So my idea is to have the bottom completely closed off. Lets see if it works for me. Grateful for the video. Gives a lot of great ideas.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

yes, reflectix.

[@bradgoliphant]

Oh, thanks, I just ordered 2" foam with an R value of 10 to go on the top board of my hive for wintering. I get the logic of it now. Thanks. (right up against it.)

[@dougstucki8253]

Today I decided to try to insulate one of my hives just like my house. I previously had a 2.5" vented quilt box with cedar shavings and rigid foam insulation right above that, and a gabled roof over the rigid insulation. Today I removed the cedar shavings and rigid insulation and filled the box and roof space with raw wool. At the peak there is roughly 6" of raw wool. The temperature in the hive went up almost 20 degrees fahrenheit at the bottom of the wool insulation! As moisture enters the insulation, it should be able to escape out the vents in that box, similar to the attic of my house. I'll check for condensation in the morning since it is supposed to rain all night.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Not something I would do, but please keep me updated! The rigid board works fine for me.

[@dougstucki8253]

I went and checked it this morning. I could find no condensation or evidence of it in the wood, so I think the wool is dispersing it quite well. I'm also glad that it keeps it even warmer so the bees don't have to work as hard.

[@aaronparis4714]

My only issue is the top vent you don’t need 2 entrances I would remove the top vents and the moisture will form at the bottom of the hives and they will hold heat better

[@ClickinChicken]

folks can't learn enough about attic ventilation, insulation, vapor barriers, leaks, gable fans, twirl birds, eve vents, & whole house fans! our roof was a black skillet before I got on it!

[@steverochon1620]

Can you elaborate on the wrap you used here? Where did you get it? Do you cut it to fit your configuration? Also, do you provide any candy board for additional feed over winter, or do the girls only have access to whatever they stored prior to winter? Thanks, some good info here.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

reflectix is sold at box hardware stores like Lowes. Sugar is added as needed...if you have a hive full of stores, there is little need...if it's not, then having sugar on top will help them through a long spring.

[@kwell88]

I am a semi new beekeeper that lives in central Maine so I can relate and learn from what you experience. I had a few late swarms last year and they never built up many stores for winter. I have all new equipment and they had to draw out all the comb. My concern was that they would quickly run out of honey. I made a replacement winter inner cover for them. it has the same bee space on the hive or frame side and taller sides on the upper side. about 4". It's divided into three sections. The middle has a 3" hole with a screen. The 2 outer sides have 6 or so 1/2" holes each side. This is filled with sugar that has been slightly wet down to make it clump. I left 2 of the small holes open for ventilation and so they can access sugar from above and below through the other holes that are covered with sugar. These two sides are also covered with screen but on the top of the wall partition. The middle section is wide enough for a gallon unused paint can with small pin holes in center lid.on top of this I just put a empty box with vents and then the outer cover. Around the paint can and over the sugar is light stuffed with fiberglass insulation. I have been feeding these bees since October using this method. I only put the sugar on 3 weeks ago. On 25- 30 degree days I can pop open the lid remove the inso and see a few bees on sugar and also gently lift the paint can and see the bees clustered under can. Hopefully these bees make it. What do you think? Also is it normal for hives to lose weight a lot at first. in September I weighed them with scale. 150 lbs or so. End of October they felt a lot less.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

hard for me to visualize, but should be good...more than one way to successfully beekeep. Sugar will also act as a moisture absorbant which is good for the hive.

[@bearclawws]

I wonder if making the hives out of thicker wood might help? Kind of like how the trees are thicker.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

of course it would help...it's more expensive and heavier for the beekeeper which is why they are the size they are now

[@privatebubba8876]

The outside of the cluster is maintained at about 45 F., the center of the cluster is kept at about 93 F or so

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

all depends on outside temp and humidity for what the outside cluster temp is. Not to mention size of cluster...it's all relative.

[@beemanrunning977]

I notice you have the notch in the upper cover facing down as I do for winter. Do you leave the hole in the center of your inner cover for the winter or do you block it off? I have been blocking the center hole of my hives for the winter feeling the heat of the hive would be more likely to vent out of the notch in front of the inner cover if the center hole is blocked.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

In the past I found if I left it open, the bees would go up and chew on the foam board above...so I close it up.....now I use flexible inner covers which has no vent...so it has to be put in the upper brood box below the lid.

[@beemanrunning977]

@@KevinsNorthernExposure Makes sense. Thanks for the insight Kevin.

[@cqammaz53]

How and when do you feed the bees?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

I try to give them syrup after I pull the honey supers off in the fall to get them up to weight. Emergency feed can be added any time there is an emergency....mountain camp method works along with candy boards

[@davecavana1031]

Look up condensing hive.... upper entrances kill bees no vents

[@mikedarkow7788]

so the hive is to warm?

[@mossycup6974]

This will be my first year keeping bees. I am located near the Wisconsin/Illinois state line and I have been suspicious of the value of the Vivaldi boards that my mentor influenced me into purchasing. I have already ditched the screened bottom boards for solid and I have standard inner covers on the way. I understand the venting aspect of the entrance hole being placed down in the winter, but do you leave the upper entrance available (facing down) in the summer months? If so, do the bees built up much in the larger space available under the cover, being the deeper side?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Yes I do leave the inner cover entrance hole down. If you see them building white comb on the inner cover lid, it's time to add another brood box as needed. Once honey supers are put on, flip it UP and close off the hole in the center of the inner cover to prevent robbing. Vavaldi boards CAN work....I just find them a total unnecessary expense when a simple foam board of insulation for $2 will work to stop the condensation between the cold lid and the bees warm air.

[@mossycup6974]

Ahhh, great point, thank you! Another indicator into population growth!Regardless of how robbing access is mitigated, do you shim between the inner cover and super or put screen/mesh over the oval escape hole to maintain summer ventilation?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

@@mossycup6974 you can, but it's not really necessary...I'd rather not give any bees from other colonies any whiff of honey.... most people do not vent their honey supers....leave the venting below the queen excluder in the brood boxes.

[@CuriousCreature]

Just lost my hives to moisture with moisture boards and no upper entrance. I’m a believer. It won’t happen again.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Sorry to hear that. Honestly. I did another video on this subject after it on why moisture boards are not a good idea. Check it out.

[@CuriousCreature]

I saw it. Boy there’s a lot of conflicting info out there. Randy Oliver talks about beekeeping only having three rules. One is a dry cavity.

[@godsstandards]

Was the hive with the screened bottom board open or closed?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

I have chloroplast board (IPM mite board) installed to close up the bottom....but the back was more open...I have since closed the back up with reflectix.

[@pacanoeist]

Why are you reflecting sun away from the hive? Don't you want the hive to absorb the sun's heat

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

reflecting the hive heat back to them.

[@Warren76317]

And you have a vapor barrier.

[@subterra3]

Can you put the insulation on top of the cover for the same effect?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Yes. The lid just holds it down from wind

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Some guys use the foam board as a lid. Check out Quiney channel. He does that and has good wintering success

[@drumcdoo9050]

You will find if you copy how bees live in a tree you will be more succesful. No1. Bees breath in a different way to humans and go into semi-hibernation when Co2 levels gat low therefore have less need to consume stores. No2. Bees like to be hot and humid in hives. if surrounded by water and they are warm. They need water to break down the crystalised honey to be able to eat it. No3. In a tree they propolise the roof and sides to waterproof it. The roof above has much greater R value than sides. This leads to water condensing on the side of tree and not above. The propolis is also anti-bacteriel so great for bee health. No4. In a hive the roof should have at least 30% more insulation than the side walls. Just as in a tree there should be NO ventilation holes of any kind the roof and sides should be completely insulated. Observe bees covering up all gaps in hive and you will realise they are telling you something!!! No5. Leave insulation, especially on roof there all year round. It will keep hive cool in summer. On a well insulated hive bees will never beard on the outside or have the need to fan. Instead they will be collecting honey instead of wasting precious energy and wearing their wings out. Consider this, professional bee keepers put their hives full of bees in barns in winter. They come out in spring well ahead of hives where bees have low amount of insulation. Also with a well insulated hive that has no ventilation on top you will notice they do regular cleansing flights as low or even lower than 40 degrees fahrenheit. Usually they stay in if tempereture drops to 50 degrees F. Regular cleansing flights at lower temperatures mean healthier bees and far greater chance of survival.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Yes, I have lots of other videos discussing just that.

[@danholtbk7008]

Totally agree. I’m a 4th year keeper and for the last two years I insulated my two hives with 3” polystyrene on all sides, top, and bottom. No upper entrance or vent. I built a special bottom board that I can slide in a 3” piece of insulation below the screened bottom board. This then doubles as my inspection board for mites. Below that is a four sided empty box that the hive sets on. I don’t like using the front entrance for oxalic treatment with the wand. The intense heat kills bees and scorches the bottoms of frames. I’m sure I killed a queen once doing that early in my beekeeping because the hive dwindled and died out shortly after without any other reason. So, having said all that, I cut a slot in the empty stand box below the frames about 8-10 inches and that is where I insert the wand. I slide out the insulation board just far enough to allow the fumes to go up into the hive through the screened bottom board. With this system I have managed to get those two hives through two Minnesota winters, healthy and happy. Also, because I’m a hobbyist and not doing it for money, I don’t feed my bees sugar syrup. I make darn sure they have a medium box of frames full of honey to get them through winter.