What We Learned From Using Double 4 Frame Nucs

[@daleorthman]

Kevin, this is one of the reasons that I LOVE you tube! I started beekeeping when I was 12: when there was no internet and of course you Tube to learn from. I am the founder and CEO of a non profit organization in NH called Castle Dream inc. for autistic children and adults. Because of my back surgery 3 days ago, I will be maximizing your experience as I build up to 200 colonies to qualify to join the Russian Bee Breeders program myself. I am starting new this spring with 6 Russian 5 deep frame nucs from Dan Conlin, the former President and current VP of the Russian Honeybee breeding program, in MA. I built a 10 frame with center divider to hold 2 nucs/hive. for a total of 3 hives containing 2 colonies each. These are conversion boxes as I have built 4 frame nuc boxes with Layens 16"deep frames on top of the nucs and continue building up with layens from there. I want to winter in single layens deep and only run 1 size frames and boxes. As Michael Palmer says "any style configuration will work for brood building". This is the fastest way I see to build the numbers. I will also experiment with 2 frame layens nucs as a potentially quicker way to grow. Thank you in advance.

[@howardperson6341]

This is so well done. Thank you. I have experienced that a ha moment from an off hand comment or just an action that is not committed upon on videos too.

[@massachusettsprepper]

After watching several of Michael Palmer's videos myself I have decided to set up a few of these for the purpose they were intended and that's adding to my apiary and strengthening weaker hives. Excellent video and as always thanks for sharing.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

He's a good presenter. A little self righteous, but that comes with success.... Hope it works for you. I learned a lot about them my first year using them.

[@TheGregpetree]

You definitely just helped me out!!! I am a first year beekeeper. I live in Oklahoma. Mild winters, but I am using the 4 on 4 in 2019. I have two hives, both in double deeps. Spring is the 12th of April. I planned on pulling five frames April 1st (I realize now, that maybe pulling six would be better [four of brood, two of honey/pollen, and one foundation to make up two 4 frame nucs]) and requeening the original colony and the nucs (I have very defensive bees and need better genetics), then I plan on doing it again on May 1st, but only to prevent swarming, and probably only taking the April 1st queen and three frames before requeening the production colony. Our main nectar flow is in June. Also, Oklahoma has bad wind and rainy spells when virgin queens need to mate, so letting them requeen without backups is not wise. Later when I have Palmer nucs on hand, if a queen does not get fertilized well, we will have a back up. A few beekeepers in Oklahoma will tell you that virgin queens in Oklahoma have a 70% successful chance of breeding, but most will tell you it can't be done!My question for you is this, is it possible that one of those queens in your video got to the other side and killed the other queen!? If you had two queens through the dirth, what do you think the supers would have had? Or if you had put a third box on before supering and pulled them when they were capped, would you have been able to harvest a lot and still given them enough stores?I am thinking that for this first year, I want to super the 4 on 4s and just keep a good eye on things. I am also thinking of doing three nuc bodies in height before supering them. What would be your advice? I know that I am a novice and may be missing or wrong about some ideas.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

glad it helped you.

[@decaturridgebees8761]

Michael is an incredible wealth of knowledge. I started mine in late summer. Checked on them today. Still alive. We hit 47 degrees today so i hit them with OA. Didn’t want to but mite count was borderline last i checked. Here’s to hoping our bees make it this winter

[@decaturridgebees8761]

When i say “i started mine” i mean my double nuc setup.

[@chrisbgarrett]

Watching your older videos. Good information. I'm trying 4-4's this year. Equipment is ready, I'm just waiting on good weather. Goodluck this year

[@masonh2260]

The two double deep 4 farmers I ran drew 4.5 ten frame boxes of foundation and capped 5.5 deeps of honey this year, by far my most productive hives this year. I'm south west of Madison and started off late in 22 but we are finishing strong down here.

[@unclebobsbees4899]

Thanks for this video. I just bought one of these hives and you answered a couple of questions I had. Also Thanks for the link, I have been trying to find Palmer's channel if he has one.

[@Hawkins_Family]

Thank you for sharing with us, that was very informative!

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Glad you got something out of it. It's why I do these vids.

[@drrota]

With regards to heating - throw a black tarp over your whole hive stand. Spread out the edges like a pyramid. Assuming the hive is south-facing, the solar gain will help the hive stay warm - especially if you put a vent in the bottom board. Make sure the bottom of the tarp is well sealed to the ground - eg: 2x4's to hold it down, so you don't get cold updrafts. Great video - I've tried this before - even just wrapping them together - like Michael Bush helps too. (Now Imagine a rack of 4 hives all sharing one big super...). - enjoy

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

I never worry about the hive staying warm.

[@matthewsweeney2577]

Helpful to me, thanks

[@ronnieholloway9109]

Have you considered the no graft nicot Queen rearing system saves you a lot of money on queens im going to try it next year

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

No. This year I'm going to get back to grafting and using cell builders . ....both ways, producing your own queens is the best idea. Hoping to trade with other local beekeepers doing the same thing to vary genetics within my apiaries.

[@decaturridgebees8761]

I’ve thought about this issue before as well. So, how do people keep bees in a queen castle? You have a single box with dividers and 3 or 4 queens. Do those have similar issues as the double nuc?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

it doesn't have that issue if it doesn't share anything in common....just having a divider isn't the issue...the issue was the bees sharing the same super and the queen pheromones being able to spread from one to the other....if there are shared boxes with bees and no barrier, then it can be an issue. Queen castles are for raising queens....none of the colonies interact with each-other and each has an entrance out a different direction. I hope I am understanding what you were asking.

[@decaturridgebees8761]

Kevin McMahon you were and you cleared it up for me. I heard you the first time but i didn’t hear you lol. I get it now

[@WilliamMcNett]

I'm also a fan of his 🙂 Been buying those from every supplier I could find. Ones I like are from New Hampshire Honey Bee. Bought 6 more this year. Did the excluder and super last summer, come fall 90% of the bees ended up in the side who's entrance was facing East 🙃 I also bought 10 extra 4 frame boxes from Humble Abodes.

[@ronnieholloway9109]

By leaving a couple of suppers on that would be a good way to feed the 4 frames through the winter

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

just need another box on each side....4 over 4 over 4...that's how Michael Palmer winters them...plenty of honey for winter.

[@hootervillehoneybees8664]

Great vid

[@marctorrades1760]

You're right, now you mention it

[@gailmurray3752]

Please turn the sound up!

[@John-qb8vd]

Turn your volume up.

[@ronnieholloway9109]

I thought you used regular suppers for the bees to climb up

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

Only to MAKE honey for me...not wintering.

[@ronnieholloway9109]

You would have to build dividers so it would separate the queens

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

there are dividers....it's a double 4 over 4 nuc.

[@billc3405]

Good information but I think what happen is not something that happens often. Go back and listen to what Michael said the only time he see this happen but not very often. I like to ask was there any way the queen could of passed over to the other side and the stronger queen won? I know at the time of me posting this is 8 months after it was published.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

actually, Mike stopped doing it.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

8 months? 1 year and 8 months.

[@billc3405]

@@KevinsNorthernExposure did he give a firm reason why?

[@billc3405]

I like setting up multiple nucs under supers.

[@thomaschoat9632]

Thanks!!

[@beebob1279]

Your queen right issue is only when the nuns are producing honey. IF you keep them separate as demonstrated by Michael, you'll see that they nucs will produce queens. If you're going to produce honey with nucs, as with a single deep system you have to inspect the bottom box for swarm cells. I've done Palmer's system (minus producing honey with them) and have had great success with overwintering and using them for hive build ups.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

I think that's what I was saying in the video.

[@beebob1279]

@@KevinsNorthernExposure You were confusing. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[@54ricko]

You said that they actually explode with bees when building up. With just this one support hive, how often do you think you could pull two frames of bees from each side in order to create another new hive?

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

depends on the queen....one frame per week from each side. two frames Maybe once every couple of weeks during buildup. depends on how strong you want the colony

[@baddestbees5924]

Can't hear the video I even put earphones in still can't hear it

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

just checked....can hear it fine...even on low.

[@WilliamMcNett]

It is low but still audible, except for the Palmer clip, that'll cause you turn it down 🙃

[@BradGrassforest]

So creed mislead you form your initial idea of creating more bees to making more honey

[@badassbees3680]

You meant "Supercedure" not "Absconding" .. when bees Abscond they ALL Leave,only bees in there will be capped brood that emerged after Everyone else left.More than likely it swarmed and failed to requeen itself, because these build super fast they hard to keep in the box.

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

no...I meant exactly what I said.

[@paulgroth5414]

Well Abscond is bees leaving hive....supercedure is replacement of queen. Your hive is full of bees. Maybe the queens got together, possibly around the excluder? I have 5 divided setups ,they are doing great. This will be the 1st winter trying this. I am in southeast Michigan and trying to decide if I should wrap them . And with what ...any ideas?

[@farmer998]

you let your thoughts miss lead you , use nucs to build up your honey hives into great honey producers. then the nuc's wont have hardly any mites from pulling brood all season the honey hives when dearth comes pull honey feed , treat ,brake down into nuks queen , combine fails start build up again in spring. sell extras

[@KevinsNorthernExposure]

not at all.