Understanding Underpainting

[@chelseylaster1465]

I absolutely love how you break everything down for those of us who are new to to the medium! Thanks a bunch! 😁

[@smackroscoe]

I demand a demonstration video of you painting a figure/vehicle/? with these under-painting concepts! And by demand, I mean PLEASE? I thank you for all that you do for us.

[@tabletopminions]

Hopefully I'll be able to do that at some point. Thanks for watching!

[@HarleyAssi]

Airbrush is Cheating! So is using Brushes! Fingerpainting is the real thing!

[@tabletopminions]

+Michael R. But I have really big fingers. Thanks for watching!

[@C861986]

Michael R. mine look like they've been finger painted....

[@HarleyAssi]

Kirk Bushell Ouuu.. Nice burn!

[@carbon1255]

nails only sculpting! must have produced material too! poop! Fingerpainting poop.

[@HarleyAssi]

Dang... U Artsy Gangster...

[@CraftsAndMinis]

I just painted 151 various minis for DnD in 35 days using the method of priming in black then white from above and relying heavily on Daler Rowney Acrylic Artist Inks. This technique works. Thanks, Atom!

[@CronusandRhea]

I feel like I just attended an art class back in college. For the last two years I have been painting miniatures just for the enjoyment of painting. I really don't intend to play, giving life to the metal and plastic characters is just therapeutic for me. Gonna attempt under painting on Wulfrik the Wanderer after I finish the current mini. Thank you, I have subscribed and I don't subscribe to many people either :0)

[@tabletopminions]

+CronusandRhea ZeusandHera Thanks! I find that underpainting is underutilized by most people starting out in minis painting. It really helps with your colors coming out as you intended. Thanks for watching!

[@CronusandRhea]

No problem sensai.

[@Mikeyb2k]

Way better tutorials than gw. Watched six in a row and loads of ideas!

[@CatSamurai99]

I've been painting my own minis for over 25 years. I still learn new things from different people all the time. I just found your videos and look forward to seeing more of your technique.

[@tabletopminions]

+Cat Samurai I agree! I'm always learning new things, especially from KZbin. Thanks for watching!

[@darnutube1117]

Thank you, for the tips. I've been painting for past ten years. and have been trying push myself to next level of Miniature Painting. This video has given me some good ideas of how to do this.

[@Pugh95Bear]

I've been binging your videos all day today, and I have to say that I am so glad I came across your channel. I'm just now getting into WH40K with my girlfriend (I'm T'au, she is Necrons), and we have been kinda scared to just jump into building and painting our Start Collecting sets and have been testing color schemes and techniques on some Space Marine and Ork units we got from a friend. You give fantastic advice and have boosted my morale with jumping into this. Thank you for the wonderful content.

[@rhettuk]

Superb tips there as always, many thanks. Just watching these makes me want to get my paint box out again.

[@discipleprojectoutreach]

You are the Bob Ross of miniature painting :)

[@tabletopminions]

That's a great compliment! Thank you, and thanks for watching!

[@dc37009]

Sir, You are a God !!! These are seriously prof'l tips. Thanks so much for sharing ! Also, the wet pallet one...

[@azuritet3]

i watched this video several times and showed it to a couple of friends who also paint. very good explanation. would give this video two thumbs up if i could.

[@tabletopminions]

+AzuriteT3 Glad it helped, and I hope it helped your friends, as well. Thanks for watching!

[@strawberryturtle8978]

+AzuriteT3 You can give it two thumbs up. Just log in with another youtube account and slam that thumbs up again.

[@DevyTanusukma]

Great video. I learn way more than just pre shading from this one video!

[@jacobhope6164]

Exactly the video I needed to watch. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[@think4urself139]

So, so helpful. So, so standard, easy language to understand for us non-art people. Thanks!

[@tabletopminions]

Thanks! I always try to explain things in a way that make sense to me, so I'm glad when other people tell me that they get it, too. Thanks for watching!

[@maxlodge4668]

Love watching your vids, but would be nice to see what your talking about like the comparisons between hot and cold on models in a split screen style Other than that love the videos

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

+ 1!

[@hunggarrebel2801]

One of the best and most informative videos for hobbyist painting. Thanks mate!

[@tabletopminions]

+k rad Thanks for the high praise, and thanks for watching!

[@searose6192]

It makes sense that you preshade models to get correct and realistic lighting effects, after all that is a classic oil painting technique for portraits (start with full greyscale shading of people then topped with layers and glazed layers of thin translucent skin tones), it’s what gives oil paintings their beautiful depth and realism.

[@7ninjasstudios808]

I can confirm exactly what you said about Secret Weapon Washes being intended for glazing and coloring over shades or each other.

[@timesup5105]

Thanks for your contribution to us painters. Really appreciate it.

[@tabletopminions]

I appreciate your appreciation. Thanks for watching!

[@a-blivvy-yus]

This reminds me of a friend whose "hero" characters were always primed and undercoated in gunmetal or silver paint. It made the character sort of seem to glow, and really helped them stand out a bit more on the table. Also did it with a Necron army before painting normal colours over them, and they came out still looking mostly metallic even though there wasn't a single metallic paint used on the top layer of the model.

[@kahldris1228]

Your tips are very informative, heres to my first attempt at miniature painting since I was a kid going well!

[@garthantash]

I discovered your channel last week when I was looking for videos to put on while painting my new Emperor's Children Kill Team. Since then I have been binging on your back catalogue. :) I was thinking which video to comment on to tell you that I am really enjoying your channel and thought to post on this one since for the first time in the 20+ years (with long breaks during that time) that I have been painting minis, I am finally understanding the under layers of paint and getting great effects from it. Sure, it takes 3 different shades of gold over Army Painter Plate Mail to get something to "look gold" but that is the effort I need to put in and the different shades I need to buy to get the effect I am finally happy with. The much younger, frugal me didn't understand that idea very well.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad you're enjoying them, and I'm glad they've helped. Thanks for watching!

[@lexzbuddy]

Light from above, Azimuth priming, very good. Listen to this fellow, he knows his stuff :) Another good video.

[@BTRedDawg]

This is something ive wondered about for a long time. thank you so much for explaining it.

[@airsoftfreak11]

thank you for these videos i have been painting models for a few years and your videos have shown me the way to becoming a little bit better.

[@tabletopminions]

Every little bit helps. Thanks for watching!

[@JWK1101]

Thanks for the tips. I stumbled onto the first type of underpainting for lighter flesh tones and (to a limited degree) metallics in my early painting days, but without any understanding of the underlying theory. I'd never thought of using grey to underpaint white though, and I'm definitely going to try it the next time I paint white.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to help. Thanks for watching!

[@Psittac20]

I have just started painting miniatures and would love it if you did a video on some basics, simply putting down thin layers. I can't seam to do it without leaving obvious brush mark's. My friends taught me how to dry brush, however now that I am starting in the hobby I am starting to look at glazes and more of a wet brush. I enjoy your attitude towards the hobby, keep the video's coming.

[@BB-pn2qv]

Wow, the old video and this mic has a real Bob Ross feel to it! I love it

[@Eesoteric43]

Great job as per usual, I'd like to suggest folks to refer to the blood rage box set tutorials (search blood rage painting guide) on KZbin. The painter does a very good job of showing step by step how you take a model and shade and highlight the models, then use thin paints to expose quick gradients...

[@philipvlummens]

Only discovered this video today. Wonderful insight which I didn't know. Love your channel!

[@MisterMannIndy]

Adam ... relatively new painter here (2 yrs). I have never done the underpainting technique, but just read about it online and then found this video. I am very intrigued. I happen to have some black primed figures that I haven't started painting my traditional way (building up layers of paint, washing, highlighting, etc.) that will make excellent candidates to try this out. If I go with glazes for color (which is what you called a wash, I think), I think I'll get very similar results to what you're talking about in the video. Fortunately I have an airbrush so this won't be hard to try. Thanks! BTW, maybe an excellent tutorial for Sam as part of your pro painting series. I'd love to see a step by step here. :)

[@tabletopminions]

+MisterMannIndy It's a great technique, I use it almost all the time. If you look at the post-Apocalyptic figures in the cover image for my KZbin channel, they were all done that way, too. Thanks for watching!

[@MisterMannIndy]

+Tabletop Minions Adam - personally, I'd love to see how you do this in a video. In case you're looking for video topics :). Once you get the miniature underpainted, you just "paint as normal" but use a glaze instead of a full on coat of color? I am going to give this a shot. I suspect this means a bunch of very thin coats, eh? How many coats of glaze do you normally apply?

[@tabletopminions]

+MisterMannIndy I generally go by eye, but it's frequently a few. It depends on the look and tone I'm going for. Thanks for watching!

[@johnkelley9877]

I like your idea of airbrushing over a black primer with a light color. I will try that on my next model. Thanks!

[@tabletopminions]

I didn't come up with the concept, I learned it somewhere else. I just wanted to teach more people about it. Thanks for watching!

[@ondaderthad7139]

This reminded me of a course I took some years ago about the Flemish Old Masters techniques. The main reason was that back then colour pigments were very expensive (sme made from ground gemstones). So they first painted a monochrome picture using just Burnt Umber and White. (both cheap pigments) using about 5 or 6 different shades. The result was a realistic Sepia picture. They then applied the precious colours as glazes and washes over the top. For an example look for "The Girl with a Pearl Eari9ng" by Vermeer. The same applies here and you could paint a full 3d looking miniature using only black and grey o Brown and white and finish as you stated in the video.

[@EowynCloud]

My daemons of Nurgle are primed white because the base colour I use is 6 layers of shade put over one another (2x camo, 2x green, 2x yellow). This I can only do if I use white primer, I tried with Death Guard Green primer but it's just not the same. So I depend on the base color for my entire colour scheme to work. Great video that most certainly clarifies how to properly use base layers!

[@joshponco]

The content that you put up in your videos are amazing! I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates the personal input before you even present the subject you want to show. Great great great! +++

[@tabletopminions]

+Joshua Ponco Thanks, I try to add a bit of personality into what can sometimes be a dry subject. Thanks for watching!

[@ablorg239]

I just got my first Warhammer 40k model (Chaos Terminator Lord). I've mostly been doing 1-3 piece models but not this one is much more complex, probably around 15 pieces. I'm having trouble deciding if I should put it all together then prime and paint or do it in sections. From the video it looks like you put it all together, base and all, and prime it and paint it. Love the channel, learned so much from you.

[@tabletopminions]

+Lambtron I rarely paint my models in parts. I usually put them all together and even do the texture basing before I prime the model for painting. The only time I paint models in parts is if they have big shields (if you've seen my recent Chaos Warriors or Varanguard models) then I paint those separately and glue them after they're all done. Thanks for watching!

[@yarlzxmyrsh]

Thank you thank you thank you!!! I normally paint using the first technique you mention, but I decided to try the shading on my Shadow Captain Korvydae model and I honestly think it's one of the best I've done.

[@tabletopminions]

Pre-shading is a great technique and can be a heck of a time saver, as well. Thanks for watching!

[@justing2324]

Another method I have been using for pre-shading is to prime the figure black, then dry-brush white. Use a small amount of paint in the brush and you can usually get all the proper highlights set with two or three passes with the white.

[@tabletopminions]

Yeah, I could see that working well. Thanks for watching!

[@ignitedxblaze]

Trying to get into the hobby, I always thought washes/shades are the last thing to do! Thanks for the insight!

[@tabletopminions]

+ignitedxblaze Glad to help. Thanks for watching!

[@Morec0]

This is enlightening! Gonna have to think a bit more before I start painting my necrons purple over their black base.

[@add2ndedition663]

So wait you are talking about contrast paints but how they work and prior to 2019 ... And this is why I am subbed because you understand colour theory more than the GW chemists.

[@redding_oliver]

Hi. I've recently tried using warm/cool light/dark colours at the pre-shading stage rather than straight up black and white. I've found a chocolate brown base and burnt orange zenithal highlights underneath lead or pewter drybrush finished with silver edging can make for quite a convincing rusted steel.

[@tabletopminions]

I usually sponge-paint my rust effects over my metallics, but both ways work. Thanks for watching!

[@jessehammil3897]

Just started painting... I was struggling so much with black primer! painting leather over it never worked. Going to try this. Thank you!

[@tabletopminions]

I hope it helps. Thanks for watching!

[@MacAttack001]

Preshading or zenithal highlighting is a great way to cut down painting time. The difference between a rattle can and an airbrush is pretty much night and day though. Once a person gets the hang of it, they can crank out a finished fig in a little over an hour!

[@tabletopminions]

It's true, airbrush is usually better than rattlecan, but you can get some pretty interesting effects even with rattlecan. This spring (if it ever gets warm again) I'll try to remember to make a video about quick and easy rattlecan techniques. Thanks for watching!

[@MacAttack001]

I hope my comment didn't come off as being some airbrush snob. Really enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing more!

[@tabletopminions]

Don't worry, I love my airbrush, but rattlecan effects are pretty interesting, too. Thanks for watching!

[@Fissi0nChips]

Just catching up on some of your old videos. I think the term you are looking for might be zenithal highlighting (Instead of pre-shading). Where you base all in black, then 45 degree in gray, then white from the top. Then paint thinly over those bases so the highlights and shadows can still show through. Sort of quick and dirty highlighting.

[@auto1nfanticid3]

do you know of any other good videos about this? I need to see more examples to wrap my head around it.

[@matthewsheppard4120]

Solid explanation of techniques more people should know about.

[@EvilDrWang]

To paint white on black, I like to put a coat of silver over the black. I find silver is opaque and covers completely with a thin layer. White on silver comes out as a nice bright white.

[@TakronRust]

I find with any metallic, if you undercoat with silver first, it gives you a very bright and very metallic finish

[@wezab]

If you are like me you almost certainly will have spare figures from kits you bought. I use these for experimenting with colour schemes. So here is an exercise for inexperienced painters to get a feel about what Uncle Atom is saying. Get 3 figures in the same pose, (I have a bunch of DE for this). Then undercoat one in black, one in grey and one in white. Then paint all 3 figures with the same colour on top. Red is a really good colour for this exercise as it is really hard to get it to show at all on black and shines like a Christmas decoration on white. If you don't want to do it on figures just use some cardboard. There wont be the same shadow effect of a raised surface but you will still see the impact of each undercoat.

[@GregHMacLean]

I'm going to try this for sure. Particularly now that the GW white primer is more of a light grey.

[@tabletopminions]

It's a great technique, I think. Good luck. Thanks for watching!

[@auto1nfanticid3]

you should do an update of this video and expand on these ideas and what youve learned about them

[@spartanival]

Great video. I am just about to star using airbrush and this was quite eye-opening. thanks!

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad I was able to help. Thanks for watching!

[@M0U53B41T]

Very cool and informative! I'd not gotten that far along into thinking about these sorts of things and you already cleared up a great deal :D

[@dan_zehner]

This is going to be a game changer for my painting! Thanks! Have you ever tried pre-shading a black model (ie. Blood Angels Death Company)? How about shading/highlighting with colors other than black or white before laying down a basecoat or wash?

[@tabletopminions]

When I painted my Black Templar, I primed black and then dusted from above with dark grey. Then I added a brown wash over that, which was very subtle. It worked out well. Thanks for watching!

[@username12120]

Really glad I found your channel, you got some great ideas I haven't really explored before that I now hope to try out soon.

[@tabletopminions]

Glad I could help, and thanks for watching!

[@Hushai1979]

You are professional, thanks for teaching me... So helpful... Your fan .. Upstate New york

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!

[@DavidBrunsII]

First video I've seen by you and I'm brand new to miniatures but that was a solid and in-depth video. (I subscribed) Thanks!

[@thecollectorfive]

Thank you very much, this is just what I was needing.

[@TheAurgelmir]

I find that most of GWs base coat paints go rather well onto most other colors with maybe two layers. But for their layer paints then you definitely need an undercoat of something else to get the right shade.

[@tabletopminions]

+Magnus Ludvigsen (TheAurgelmir) I've never compared the densities of the base colors to the layer colors that GW makes. I should look into it. Thanks for watching!

[@TheTriforcemonk]

You just improved my painting ten fold

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to have helped. Thanks for watching!

[@VictorQues]

Good explanation, there are good advises in that video to improve the painting. Merry Christmas!

[@kariechaos5382]

there are things such as cool toned red, or warm toned green. Depends on how much blue or yellow pigment is in said colour. Makeup teaches a lot about warm, cool and neutral tones in colour. colour is fun.

[@potatius6421]

I usually start with a white undercoat, proceed to a heavy wash followed by a heavy drybrush. After that I'll proceed adding extremely thinned down colors (underpaint, highlight and white)...It's pretty efficient and my minis tend to look better than those of the people I play against.

[@tabletopminions]

Nice. You should hop on the Tabletop Minions Paint Showcase Club on Facebook and show off your work. Thanks for watching!

[@aquadonkey.]

Helped me very much with my men of numenor with the gold on black

[@daneofdanger]

I'm painting an Orc Blood Bowl Team with a predominately white paint scheme. The highlights will be a blueish blacks and silvers. I want the white to pop against the green skin. I was thinking about underpainting with a chocolate brown, washing it with orange, and then layering up to the white, so that the white clothing has and undertone in a complimentary color to the green skin. Am i going down the right path, or should I underpaint in blue to match the cool tones of the model?

[@tabletopminions]

I think using a warmer white rather than a cool white is a good idea in that situation. Thanks for watching!

[@jerryvanakkeren4750]

Nice video. Really made me understand basic build up colouring

[@elviraKEB]

"I am priming in black, almost always" Glad to see that it is just not me then!

[@bloodnivel70]

I dont even play warhammer but I like your voice, it's relaxing.

[@bneffer]

Great points! I'd love to see visual examples of each technique discussed. Of course I know that adds hours to your production, but just saying I was eager to see examples of the techniques and situations as you described them,.

[@bneffer]

And I do love the examples you did provide. I've started pre-shading or "zenithal highlighting" all my minis.

[@ctviper01]

How do you manage to get your paint so smooth looking? I paint with a little water added still looks lumpy, yet when I water it down more, it seeps to the edges and the center gets almost no color.

[@tabletopminions]

+Chris Tuttle What kind/brand of paint are you using? Thanks for watching!

[@rsreston]

I'd love to see your comparison between these Secret Weapon Washes and GW's new Contrast paints.

[@smackroscoe]

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[@rekakristo986]

I found these tips very useful, thanks!

[@MisterJamesT]

Wow, found your channel while looking for a how to make a wet palette. You have a lot of great advice here, I've subbed. Really liked this underpainting video. You mention you use an airbrush. Do you have any videos on how to use or better yet what to look for when buying/getting into airbrushing? I've never used one, but I'm interested in maybe starting.

[@tabletopminions]

+James Tonkin I don't have any airbrushing videos yet, but I probably will soon, as I get asked about it a lot and I think it's an important tool that painters should consider. Thanks for watching!

[@NoisyBones]

I totaly loved this! Recently I did some 'gold and obsidian' Egyptian God minis as contouring practice. I had a hard time getting the gold to cooperate with me (citadel desert and a light gold from Vallejo) and now I know why!!! I almost want to strip the things and re do it but I like the contouring too much lol. Ps. How do I stop my white from getting chalky?

[@tabletopminions]

+Wendigo Nasty If you're talking about the white overspray getting chalky, I'd not worry about it too much. It's kind of standard, and since you'll be covering it with paint or glaze, you won't notice it as much. Thanks for watching!

[@madtabletopgamer3204]

If you prefer to paint white , make sure you use lots of water, go over the details with a thin layer of light grey and a thin layer of white.

[@TejrnarG]

One question to the pre-shading: Would it perhaps even yield a smoother grayscale if one doesn‘t wait for the black spray to dry before spraying with the white? Would it nicely wet-blend?

[@garyporter8323]

So how many washes is a good number, and should I be going lighter with each coat if so?

[@RoozyyK]

This is actually hilarious. I watched a lot of videos you talking about mini tabletop paining, but actually never seen you actually paint.

[@tabletopminions]

I do paint in some of my videos, but I feel it’s usually better to explain a technique and then get the viewer to try it - the viewer learns more by trying than by watching. It seems to have been working over the last six and a half years. Thanks for watching!

[@micahwerdel8711]

So what under paint should I use with green painted over gold? What should be between both? I want to make the green pop out well. :)

[@TheNeomaster15]

Hi, new to mini painting. Wouldn't it be better to use yellow for the underpaint and then apply the gold paint instead of a chocolate brown colour?

[@xxapoloxx]

Another thing to take into account for undershading is that it works best with bright colors, darker colors will tend to overpower the darker colors. Dont know the technical term for it, but if the end color has is very very dark, the light areas will end up closer to the darker undershaded areas thus losing the effect.

[@michaellibakhansen2670]

If my mini is mainly warm, can't I just prime with white and then go straight to the colour I wish to use?

[@tabletopminions]

It kinda depends on if it's going to be a light model or a dark model, actually. Thanks for watching!

[@cloverncross]

Great vid Atom! Your Av video level is fantastic man. Merry Christmas!

[@PattyIce93]

I'm starting to paint an empire army for warhammer fantasy. If the uniforms are white and red should I just prime with white instead of black? Or should I just prime black and put a grey on the areas I want to eventually be white?

[@tabletopminions]

You could prime grey and then dust from above with white spray, as well. It'll make nice built-in shadows. Thanks for watching!

[@jonanjello]

Very informative. Thanks for making this useful video.

[@addictedwowgamer]

Does pre-shading with an airbrush make sense on mostly black miniatures like black templars for example?

[@tabletopminions]

+bluegoesfaster In that case, I'd do a pre-shade with a black base and then a dark grey highlight, then maybe throw a black wash over it. I did something like that with my Black Templar. Thanks for watching!

[@addictedwowgamer]

Awesome, I'll have to try it soon! Thank for your reply, really appreciate your videos, they help out a lot!

[@Cavalakz]

I'm relatively new to mini painting so forgive the possible ignorance in asking this question but...if you have something primed all black and need to paint white or a similar colour over it..wouldn't it be easier and less steps/paint colours to just prime those parts white then throw on a coat or two of white base colour?

[@rickytoddbotelho9555]

I want to know what you suggest for paint remover.

[@erperejildo]

Really amazing info. Thanks for that. Subscribed

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to help. Thanks for watching!

[@CronusandRhea]

Approximately how many time should I make a pass around the miniature for pre-shading? I based black and at 12" away, at 30 degress like you suggested, went around the mini two times, very light coats. Does it need to be really white to work or is it okay to be a little transparent?

[@tabletopminions]

+CronusandRhea ZeusandHera I would say it would partially depend on what colors you're going to cover the underpainting with (lighter colors versus darker colors). I usually want the top of the head and maybe the tops of the shoulders to be nearly totally white, but it takes a bit of practice and guesswork. Good luck and thanks for watching!

[@CronusandRhea]

Yeah, that is how mine turned out after two light passes.

[@YknotLearnall]

Your pre-shading technique sounds interesting for what you're painting. Primer colors are usually used dependant on top coat color. I think your finding the need for some of this due to the scale of the project, and the fact you're priming it all one color. You could simply prime based on top coat color even at the miniture scale, you'd just have to be more precise. Very precise in fact. The translucency of the paint I'm sure will help get realistic skin tones. Translucent paint is preferred for skin no matter what your painting. Layering a must. Even in CG this technique is used. Interesting take on painting miniture figures. Thanks for sharing. cheers...

[@ZainNL]

If only I had known this sooner.. Ulthuan Gray (GW*) on Celestra gray (base) takes ages as well and it's near impossible to get it right. Good video :)

[@GirlPainting]

good explenation :)

[@questingadventurer7158]

GirlPainting no problem thanks for watching!

[@micahwerdel8711]

GirlPainting So what under paint should I use with green painted over gold? What should be between both? I want to make the green pop out well. :)

[@_Marilynn_]

I like the way gold looks if you paint it over black. For my black legion guys I prime them black and use Balthasar gold directly onto the black then I wash it with nuln oil. I'm still kind of a beginner painter but I really like it

[@tabletopminions]

What's really important is if you like it. I generally like warmer gold, so that's why I start with brown. Thanks for watching!

[@dracons29]

+Tabletop Minions gotta ask that question hoping to be (understandable) and answered... I've recently bought a citadel leadbelcher spray and the gw employee told me that it could also be used as a primer, but by doing some internet' research i've found many forums that say that the only two types of primers are Black and White... i'm a bit confused about what to do right now. Hope you read that long ( and horribly writed) message :D. Do really love the eeford you put in this video to let other people improve at painting :D

[@_Marilynn_]

Eru Iluvatar you can use it as a base coat or undercoat, as long as the bottle doesn't say "paint and primer"

[@dracons29]

on the gw site it's said that it's used as a basecoat over an undercoat but there are curenttly people that use it as an undercoat without issue... this is a bit messed up tho XD

[@istartfiresfoster1]

Eru Iluvatar I have also seen grey primers in other brands, but also had a friend that used a black wash before primer especially with metal miniatures, he claimed it helped the primer adhere better... not sure how true that is but it worked for him

[@danielw.6992]

What Kind of Color would u use if the main color on the model should be a khaki green?

[@TheAcunianGamer]

This might be a very usefull video for my Raven Guard. Think the black/white primercoat would work for black too?

[@tabletopminions]

You might have to put several black glazes or washes over it, but yes. Thanks for watching!

[@jabbasleftnut1530]

When pre shading do you prime the whole model black first then prime white over the black from the top or just black from the bottom then white from the top. I'm about to do the great unclean one like this and not sure how to tackle it.

[@tabletopminions]

I generally do the whole model in black first, and then dust it from above in white. Have fun, and thanks for watching!

[@FtonDavid]

"A primer on priming miniatures" by Corvus Miniatures [Published on 3 Oct 2012] has a good tutorial for using rattle cans for pre-shading if people need a little more explanation.