"North Star" & Mormon-Approved Gay Cuddling Parties - Kyle Ashworth

[@IsaacTrumbo]

I went to one North Star meeting in 2007 when I came out at BYU. I felt it was totally off and left the church soon after. Thanks for sharing.

[@ronsmith2241]

I was amazed. The whole medical profession declassified homosexuality as an illness in 1973. I would leave the church totally yesterday and never go back. I am gay, medically proven during electronic shock therapy. I was a Baptist Pastor and told I am not welcome to even attend church. I was married to my accepting wife for 51 years and I cared for her with MS for 26 years before she passed. I am now free to be the gay man I always was. But I'm too old now to look for a husband/pastor. My adult kids are very accepting.

[@alexandrorocca7142]

If the LDS Church doesn't shut down these parties it's a sign that they know that there's no such thing as praying the gay away.

[@brockb3692]

@Mauro Fernandez Yes it does. The LDS church sponsors this group.

[@brockb3692]

The LDS church won't shut down groups like North Star because it farms out its members to these groups in hopes of "curing" their sexual orientations. The church knows there is no efficacy in trying to pray the gay away but they want LGTBQ+ members to believe the fantasy so they will stay active, tithe-paying members.

[@58jennypenny]

Obviously you can't, it's who 'you' are.

[@mjhill72]

The LDS church doesn't _run_ these parties. North Stat is in no way affiliated with the church. It is a private organization therefore the church _can't_ shut them down.

[@mjhill72]

@@brockb3692 No. They don't. Go to North Stars website and read.

[@rwnordmark]

I long for the day when I will meet a man or men who will honestly love me and not reject me because I struggle with same sex attraction. I live in constant fear that if someone at church finds this out about me they will reject me. I had a stake president who discriminated against me and would not advance me in the Priesthood because I have homosexual feelings. It did not matter that I lived my life worthy of my priesthood and my temple recommend and that I served faithfully in my calling and attended the temple regularly. All that mattered is that I have homosexual feelings.

[@laume702]

Seriously why did you even tell them? As long as you go to church and give them money they don't care what you are doing. They will sweep anything under the carpet as long as you give them money and deny, deny, deny even though it is staring them right in the Face.

[@nickdipaolofan5948]

@@laume702 your comment is so true. Just a couple of years ago I would have laughed at how wrong you were, but I have experienced EXACTLY what you are talking about. I personally know a few people who everyone around them KNEW they could not possibly be temple worthy and it was such an open secret that their bishop HAD to know. But the person answered the questions the right way and that must have been good enough for the bishop (nothing to see here). Bottom line, as long as you are going through the motions, paying tithing, and kissing the ring (saying you sustain leadership), then its all good. They know if they take away your recommend, then you are likely to stop paying tithing.

[@KP-nf4yl]

I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope you’ve since found peace and an authentic life (outside the church if need be).

[@laume702]

My Ex is a Statistics Professor at BYU he also got his Master's there. After he graduated we got married and moved to New Jersey. And after I got older and wiser I suspected that many in that department were gay as well as suspecting my ex to be gay. Then my daughter got her master's there and started dating a guy majoring in Statistics also. She graduated first and moved to Chicago. He flew back to visit her. Instead of spending time with her, he hit every gay club he could find in Chicago. He really hurt her feelings. He spent very little time with her. It was obvious his goal was to run wild. Back to my ex who now hates me because I have accused him of being gay but he will not admit it. I think adults should have experience in "Life" so they can know fake from real.

[@pattisonpattison3639]

Mormonism seems to be a really successful business, that dabbles in religion.

[@dab7963]

But what if you like same sex attraction ? What if your gay? Why do you want to belong to a church that wants to "change you". I would say you are not broken and need a new church. You don't need to be fixed the church is what needs to be fixed.

[@nickdipaolofan5948]

I agree, but if you think it is so wrong for a church to try to change the individual to meet church expectations, then why is it okay for gay individuals to want to change the church to meet the individuals expectations? Just part ways and call it good.

[@scottbrandon9390]

When I was in university there was a religious studies course that was seen as an "easy A" course. Nothing like the cuddle parties described here. I never took the course, but a lot of students signed up. The basis of the course was a lot of exercises. Some were used to build trust with class members. Very physical activities. One of these was laying on the floor and rolling over each other in the darkened classroom. It was very gay in that it meant touching women and men. At the end of the class students turned in a three ring binder of an assessment of the readings and exercise experiences each week (50%) and the rest was participation (50%). I think the prof. was a therapist and using the students for research. I don't think that would fly today.

[@amsie_86]

Sounds like the prof was using the students for his own sexual gratification, especially when reading the "assessments" he will be reliving what he saw in the classroom.

[@claudia8801]

Scott Brandon: Yes it does "fly" today; it happens in various university setting for various reasons. I experienced it as intrusive and didn't participate correctly (the teacher declined to penalize me on the grade). As John says. "...a waste of time." Not dangerous, but not for everyone either.

[@linzraz9834]

What?!! I’m a therapist, this is bananas. I hope you are okay/ recovered from this “experiment”. Thank you for sharing this experience. ❤️

[@BebbaDubbs]

Gay doesn't equal "touching". This comment is gross.

[@Massimo795781]

I can see why this exercise was introduced. A lot of you expressed a lot of negative comments as you do not understand the meaning behind it. Several studies have confirmed that western nations are literally touch deprived. With the advent of technology and legislations demonising human touch, have led to an decrease of touch frequencies among people and universities students. Students for instsnce are incapable of forming strong relationship and close friends as the element of human touch is not used as the required frequency. Moreover, studies showed strong relationship with touch deprivation with anxiety, stress, self destructive behaviour, suiside. Lets consider for a moment Japan, a country that has probably the less touch frequency on earth. Japan has the highest level of binge drinking, suiicide, depression and anxiety and self destructive behaviour. Touch is comparable to food. An anorexic individual does not like to eat but that does not mean that she does not need food to survive. Some individuals may have a bad relationshio with touch but that does not mean that your body can live without it. Human touch triggers important hormons capable to regulate emotions. Studies on human touch are really fascinating and would encourage you all to look a bit deeper intobthis subject rather than saying how negatively you may feel about it. Even an individual suffering from anorexia fell bad about eating but it wont be what he/ she feels about it that will safe her/his life.

[@robertramsay5963]

Kyle, you say it so well. They do not understand and never will, but that doesn't stop them from giving "wise" advice. What fools they are!

[@mylesmarkson1686]

I had an RM-roommate who once had the biggest smile on his face as he was just staring at me while I was coming out of the shower. It was creepy as hell. I felt like asking him... "Do you wanna join me next time?"

[@mylesmarkson1686]

@@davidf4898 If I had his number, I'd hook the two of you up. You sound REALLY interested!

[@mylesmarkson1686]

@@davidf4898 Awwww, poor widdo Davey. I know you had your heart set on getting his number. If I ever run into him again, I'll be sure to get it for ya. You really are desperate for some action--Aren't ya?

[@freddenker9537]

the best religion is...... no religion, the best church ........... is no church, live your life in love and peace, no superstition needed...

[@BebbaDubbs]

Being forced to have sexual relations with a women/man you aren't attracted to, and then living with them. The resentment has to be insane. Then being forced to stay in the church because of North Star so the church can continue making profits 😔

[@estevencamacho]

Excellent episode. I've met many closeted missionaries in my time and all I can say is that they were suffering inside trying to live a double life.

[@mjhill72]

How do you know?

[@estevencamacho]

@@mjhill72 bc it takes one to know one.

[@mjhill72]

@@estevencamacho So you _intrinsically_ knew they were not only gay, but also suffering? How do you know you were right? Not only that, how would you ever know if you were wrong?

[@h.r.9563]

Crazy!! I wish the whole world knew this. It's wild

[@claudia8801]

Heather M, I took it down as irrelevant. I'm really tired doing academic work; doing long writing sessions and thus made an error in judgment putting that up. The Mormons were the original hetero alternative - life style people and some where in that is a point, but I couldn't find it!

[@nickdipaolofan5948]

@Bree Bruce Why hasn't the board of North Star publicly addressed theses claims? Why haven't they made a statement that these accusations are not true? Bennett and Becky Borden? Anyone? Where are they on this?

[@aarongreen3551]

It's not easy to be Mormon and gay. I am not surprised to hear about the cuddle parties with North star. I hope the church includes LGBT people and maybe one day performs their marriages.

[@rain73ful]

Don't hold your breath about that. You would be better off joining a gay friendly church than sticking with the Mormon church because they won't change anytime soon.

[@aarongreen3551]

@@rain73ful I'm gay and I'm Mormon. I come from a pioneer family. I don't see why I should have to go elsewhere.

[@dannyvalladares5324]

Hey@@aarongreen3551 I'm afraid the church won't change any time soon. In case it does, it'll be proven one more time that the church is false just like when black people were allowed to hold the prieshood to avoid losing its tax-exempt status. I say the LGBT community should continue pushing the church for inclusion until it accepts homosexuality and same-sex marriages and we all come to realize once and for all that the LDS church is false. My dear friend I'm afraid mormonism and christianity itself are not gay friendly. You better build a personal relationship with God in case you are a believer but do not subcribe to any religion whose very nature is against the LGBT community and therefore wont change.

[@aarongreen3551]

@@dannyvalladares5324 if a church changes their position against LGBT people and become more inclusive then God too becomes more inclusive. I don't believe in an actual god but the effects of religion are very real.

[@TrixieMatteI]

@@aarongreen3551 does pioneer just mean white

[@AntonioAFelizJr]

Excellent discussion! Thanks for your honesty, professional understanding, and Truth! I'm especially glad that the George Q. Canon statement is referred to by the man interviewed here. You're both discussing a historical social phenomenon in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that I call the soul mass schizophrenic consciousness inbred among the community that hasn't been self-aware for centuries. Blessings 🙌

[@linzraz9834]

Had not heard of the North program. So special to hear this discussion . Human = inherent worth = be good to ourselves and others. That is the only equation that matters.

[@tarachapman916]

The church allows this? Wtf my mind is officially blown

[@lizkingbradley]

Not church. But supposedly supportive to church members. But still. I’m so tired of being poorly represented.

[@andriettecooper2117]

The Church would never allow this. This is probably a group of people who took it upon themselves to start something, make money from it and use the church’s name. Shame on them.

[@brockb3692]

@Mauro Fernandez The church supports North Star financially and ideologically. For all intents and purposes, North Star IS the LDS church. The church definitely sanctions what's going on in that organization.

[@brockb3692]

@@andriettecooper2117 Sadly, the church does sponsor and support North Star, just like it sponsored Evergreen International. The church keeps its participation hidden from most members for obvious reasons. But yeah, the church supports these kinds of activities. It has a very rigid, medieval view of gender roles and sexuality. The church has also supported conversion therapy. Evergreen International practices and promoted conversion therapy.

[@psmith535]

@@brockb3692 this is obviously just your opinion. Any proof?

[@scottbrandon9390]

Is North Star similar to the Evergreen Movement, another gay conversion therapy group?

[@rubendhoyos9886]

Luckily it’s not-but the problem is their framework is based on the dogmatic church teachings.

[@brockb3692]

Actually, Evergreen International and North Star are very similar. When Evergreen International shut down in 2014, it actually folded into North Star to become one organization. Evergreen shut down because its past support of and affiliations with conversation therapy became untenable. The actual practice and use of conversion therapy would be the only difference between the two groups. Both are (were) deeply homophobic, dogmatic, and evil.

[@amandaflood6843]

So. Not North Star. Just people who are involved with it in some way. Right?

[@nickdipaolofan5948]

He said that North Star LEADERSHIP were the organizers of these orgies. Not just a couple randoms.

[@jeffedmundson2044]

The Mormon Church is jumping the shark.

[@jazhar1111]

I went to a few of the North Stars conferences since my brother was apart of the leadership . I never felt like there was a push to keep anybody in the church, or cure anybody of anything. They did parade around the mixed orientation couples during the conferece which was very off-putting. They also stopped allowing J.I.M to do any marketing at their conferences which is a plus. I hope John takes the time to actually go to their conference so he can give a real first hand impression of what goes on there. I'd be really interested to hear his take on the North Star conference experience.

[@F1Vista]

This is an interesting take - it seems like you view the organisation as quite passive/neutral. Do you think the organisers were rather nonchalant about the participants/the overall aims of the programme? Or do you see it as kind of a half-hearted marketing type thing?

[@jazhar1111]

@@F1Vista It's been a long time since I've attended any North Star events, so the tone and messaging may have changed since the 2014-2016 conferences. I do feel like the organizers were passionate about making the LDS faith work for their members, but they seemed to also understand that it also might not be possible for everyone. The one important take away I got from my experience with the group is that they don't do conversation therapy, or promote any therapy options.

[@brockb3692]

@@jazhar1111 That's good to know. They probably don't do conversion therapy because it's not politically tenable to support that anymore. Evergreen International, which was absorbed by North Star, did practice and promote conversion therapy though, and I've heard that the founders of North Star had been advocates of conversion therapy in the past. Glad it's not true, but the group is still overtly homophobic and destructive.

[@vettman63]

At mark 18:55, you mention that you are working on a series about "hidammmm religions", I can't quite understand what you are saying.

[@jeffedmundson2044]

"High Demad Religions" is what he is saying. Hope that helps.

[@Mcfreddo]

Mormonism is particularly poisonous, but not alone. Belief is poison to knowledge.

[@michaelreidperry3256]

This is unbelievably weird.

[@lilblackfish2009]

We’re not trying to change your sexual we trying make it be dormant lol

[@scottmccarthy7982]

Hi. Thank you. RM gay Mormon. Sacramento Mission 1985. I was recommended to marry to get over my sexuality. I could not marry a woman looking to marry her prince. I had a Mormon counselor who said to me shit or get of the pot. It took 10 years.

[@Mustardmanor]

I think Northstar serves its purpose for members who need it at that time. But I don't think it is a very welcoming organization. I do not think it is a safe organization. I think it has many good members who are just trying to navigate this world the best they know how. That doesn't mean it is a healthy and safe organization though. And cuddle parties for sure exist.

[@michaelscottphotographs]

100%

[@rubendhoyos9886]

Yep this is so true.

[@rkn2800]

This is insane...

[@Lora_Lynn]

Northstar. Hey I'm not a Mormon I never was I never intended to be. Just curious; and what the hell is up with this? Apologetic?; Why what for? My head is spinning, I've never had anybody like you. Your living prophet and your apostles oh my God, I thought Jones was the worst Kool-Aid

[@lolanelson9634]

Brilliant!

[@goldencitybythebay]

Who are we to judge what’s best for anyone else. The best we can do center our own lives!

[@kathrynclass2915]

Amen amen amen!

[@alycollotzi1888]

I just went to the 2021 conference to support a family member and I thought the leaders went out of their way to introduce me to other mothers who were also experiencing similar circumstances with their loved ones. There was a focus on trusting in the Lord and seeking personal revelation to guide your decisions as you navigated these very complicated issues and assurances that no matter your faith journey and the choices you make on it, God loves you and will help you.

[@TrixieMatteI]

Being gay isn’t a sin though…

[@DC-vv5ii]

Sounds like this stuff is infiltrating bit by bit, one bed sheet at a time.

[@ruthdorius2831]

interesting...not buying it... although it will be interesting to check into it. A number of things are done that claim to be church approved when in actually they are not approved at the highest level.

[@manderson4803]

He seemed like he believed he was telling the truth to me? Who knows?

[@bebeenderson7863]

man what..

[@joehinojosa24]

It's all about TRUST

[@goldencitybythebay]

Why keep beating your head against a brick wall? Move forward and don’t look back.

[@Jasona1976]

What a bunch of nonsense.

[@Lora_Lynn]

Good Lord, excuse me I am an atheist never a Mormon never want to be I just like trying to understand different cultures. I'm just envisioning now I have money dripping down. Do know the difference, holy s*** this is the broadcast maybe another that you would spend half an hour talking about finances and how should you be afraid. Okay I have had better respect for you, now I do not believe what you say at least you did not listen to yourself It is like oh my God there's a Mormon who's afraid. I hesitate to say a lier. You would not notice the difference between black and white. There is a gray area, if you had one foot in dwhere you stand. Okay I lost a finger when I was in fourth grade. Advanced make it difficult for me to respond even using microphone. I have never been a religiously abused, my dad was although he had never admitted You are too. Still somewhere in the middle. Speak out but if some pushback you're still afraid. The church still consumes you. I am just an observer. I think it's very difficult for me to understand what you've been through. But you do not need to apologize or explain and have fear. Just words

[@mdelah]

Omg his dads therapist is sooo unethical

[@cameron9643]

Phony baloney.

[@danielvandermerwe7921]

Jesus is the Answer. Period

[@bloofey3727]

Nah

[@srso4660]

Santa Clause is the answer. Period

[@jeffedmundson2044]

I agree with you Daniel.

[@alananat6628]

It depends on who is speaking for Jesus and twisting His words.

[@mjhill72]

Upon seeing this I was like, "This is nuts. No WAY the church would have such a program!" I was right. North Star is in no way affiliated with or owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Whatever weird crap they do is not in any way a reflection on the church, rendering this videos point moot. Again.

[@zajournals]

Church social services in SLC have a program just like this. NS is just another spin-off.

[@mjhill72]

@@zajournals Don't get me wrong, I _am_ a proponent of behavioral therapy for those who are not happy with their sexual orientation. But, the methods described in this video are not that. Same sex cuddling is the opposite of aversion therapy; one method of behavioral therapy.

[@zajournals]

@@mjhill72 oh yes I agree... North Star sounds more like a place where gay men can hookup with others in similar situations. Church social services is not like that, doesn't encourage it, although it does sometimes happen after meetings. Years ago SS gave out a lot of literature about why the men feel attracted to other men, such as not having a good relationship with their fathers. It was very believable, but now we know otherwise. I think they meant well. It was difficult for the counselors though... the church says one think and their training said another - that homosexuality is not a choice. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 🙂

[@mjhill72]

@@zajournals I'm really intrigued by this concept of choice lately, and since you brought it up :) For decades the gay community (since before "LGBTQ") claimed homosexuality was heritable & immutable & therefore (like your fingerprints) could not be changed. But the culture has changed and the LGBTQ community has espoused an "everything is fluid" ideology. It's confusing even to LGBTQers who on the one hand say same sex attraction can't be "cured" yet on the other hand use terms like "abrosexual" and are against gender reveal parties because, due to the fluidity of gender, what you are born with _doesn't_ matter.

[@zajournals]

@@mjhill72 I totally believe homosexuality isn't a choice. The documentation alone is overwhelming. As for "fluidity," born the wrong gender, etc., well I'm not informed enough on that to make a knowledgeable opinion... but I'm all for people living as they need to in order to be happy and they should be free to do so without judgement or persecution. However, I will say if you're born with a penis, and still have it even if you live as a female, you are still male - Bruce Jenner for example. Biology is a fact. After gender reassignment surgery, I'd refer to that person as transgender, but not female. Reconstructive surgery doesn't change one's genes. If one has the need to be addressed by certain pronouns, I'd respect that and use them... just like using whatever name they go by. I certainly wouldn't fight them on that because of any personal beliefs (as many christians do).

[@roselotusmystic]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy