Unique Propulsion Part 3 - Cutting HUGE holes in our BOAT - S03E19 | Building Wilda

[@latitudeash]

The plan is coming together. 🤞🏼

[@danielgreenfield6267]

Im rebuilding a Schionning Waterline and one of the many jobs was rebuilding the engine wells that the outboards slide up and down in. Not an easy job. My only advise after having a few years with drop down legs is to consider marine growth in hard to access places when you are in the water. Im using coppercoat antifoul in the wells and made the engines easily removable on the water for servicing and cleaning. Last haul out was 2016 and I dont plan on hauling out for years. A benifit of not having saildrives. Also converted the engine lift mechanism to electric linear drives with a manual emergency release which I havent seen before on any boat. Good luck with your project.

[@buildingwilda]

Thanks! May I ask what kind of growth you had? Mostly soft? Does your setup seal below at all? I was hoping the lack of sunlight would stop most growth.

[@latitudeash]

Brave of you guys to cut a big hole in the base 🫣

[@buildingwilda]

brave and a bit crazy maybe :))

[@marandam6019]

I just found your channel subscribed can't wait to dive in and get myself up to date!!!!

[@craigmartin8326]

A great show I in joy watching it.

[@Lordlindef]

Locks like an hell of a boat when finish. But this electric i must see

[@buildingwilda]

Thanks!

[@karelundberg9523]

Nice to see you healthy and happy after your enormous work with sanding, filling, again and again. Personally, I have put new gelcoat in a cockpit also in several rounds. But in comparison, I know. The electric motors seem very exciting. Fantastic to avoid diesel and exhaust fumes. Then sails with solar cells are something we look forward to. We wish you all the best.

[@karelundberg9523]

I received a comment here in the house. "You can't turn solar cells into sails". No I meant, regular sails that can also convert sunlight into electricity. Perovskite on thin film is something I've heard of. But otherwise I lack sufficient knowledge.

[@buildingwilda]

I've also seen trials of solar panels on sails. Super interesting and a great idea. Sadly, to my knowledge, not something available yet. I'll use the sails to generate though hydro instead. More practical. And squeeze in as much solar as we possibly can without making her into a tank. We are over all the sanding and filling... Something we'll have to get back to, but we'll put it off for a while. Hope you were happy with your cockpit! And hope you stick around for more of Wilda!

[@kevinmartin3859]

Nice video looking good see you next

[@buildingwilda]

Thanks 👍

[@normanboyes4983]

This was a case of measure many times before cutting if ever I saw one - or two.😉👍⛵️

[@buildingwilda]

Took a while to gather the courage...

[@MrJerobona]

Fantastic project!

[@buildingwilda]

Thank you! More coming up soon.

[@joecollins3400]

Are you going to be digging the foam out between the layers of fibreglass in the hull and fill it with thickand expoxy I would cut out foam as deep as the lower lip of that cylinder say 50mm

[@buildingwilda]

Yes, you will see in an upcoming episode that we did decore the hull before glueing in the fiberglass ring frame. Thanks for comment!

[@bensteel3944]

You have probably sorted out the problem by now but you could have used packing tape over the paper. That works well as a mould release.

[@buildingwilda]

Yep. Packing tape works well. A go to that is really simple and effective.

[@MarchTwentyfour-t8z]

Well done guys! You're moving so fast now, it's great to see! For your fiberglass rings, to release from the paper you can use non silicon mold release wax, at least 3 coats then wipe PVA release agent (water based) over the area to be laminated. Prior to applying the PVA, use industrial plasticine to shape your internal radius. You can buy all this from your fiberglass supplier, they are very standard products. Hope that helps and I'm very much looking forward to your next video! Thanks guys, you're a real delight to watch 😀😀

[@buildingwilda]

Had to look up what plasticine was. Modelling clay! Absolutely! Would have been great to help getting a nice radius for the glass to lay on. I'll keep that in mind for future molding projects. For this particular task I think we went with the old bin liner release film trick 🤣 Perhaps not the most elegant solution, but a very functional one. We've had varying results with wax and PVA. Got both in the shed and use them from time to time. We wish we were moving faster! Hope you stick around for more! / Axel and Rox

[@MarchTwentyfour-t8z]

@@buildingwilda LOL at the bin liner.... You're ahead of me in that technology, never done that "old trick" but hey, if it worked that's all that matters 😀😀

[@kankama1]

I am watching this and hoping you will not only decore the balsa but also put some glass around the edge to ensure there are no possibilities for cracks. I have just come home from digging out rotten balsa along the stern deck of my 38ft strip cedar cat - don't like Duflex at all at the moment and am glad I only have one section made from it. Be super careful about it - I had a crack appear in the decore glue mix that allowed rainwater in from the underside as the water dripped over - it took 12 years but I now have a few days of repair ahead of me - don't trust decaring and gluiing - glass over the edges as well which is what I will be doing in about 2 days. I am also interested in why you went with alloy tubes - I don't see how you will bond the alloy into the boat well. Maybe you will use 5200 or similar. Keep smiling.

[@buildingwilda]

Thanks! Yes. Absolutely decoring and backfilling. Then covering with 6mm solid glass and then tabbing that glass to the hull. Should be ok. Water ingress into the core is definitely something to be careful about. We'll just try to do as well as we can for all penetrations. The glue surface area is huge, so I am not too worried about making sure the tube is well stuck in there. Haven't decided if we'll go with epoxy or a construction adhesive yet... Both have their advantages....

[@SVPearler]

Wow, it's a bit like a jump of faith 😮. I guess it's like the Gunboat retractable rudder.

[@buildingwilda]

Yes, very similar construction. I wish we had pretty, high aspect, rudders like that as well! Perhaps with a little foil on the end.... For future Axel to build I guess 🤣

[@SVPearler]

@@buildingwilda yes take a leaf out of Youngbarnicles and La Vagabond. 😁 Shayne explains the very good reason for wings on the bottom of a rudder.

[@buildingwilda]

Would love to.... But priority is to get the damned thing in the water! Fancy little winglets will have to wait 🤣

[@pmorph]

this is a very courageous project... Did you de-core the balsa around the edge in the hull (between the outer and inner layer of glass in the hull) and fill with bog/glass uni etc? Good luck Phil

[@buildingwilda]

Yes we did. Removing the core in any places like this is super important. We use a fiber and micro balloon mix to fill with, then add uni in form of the new ring frame going in. Hope you enjoy the videos and come back for more

[@NewZealandPakeha]

Looks ok

[@kankama1]

Another quick comment - I have made heaps of composite tubes for hinges on my folding catamaran - (you can see her here kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpPFn6ehqZtqoaM). Anyway I made a heap of tubes and needed them to rotate. I found the best way was to make a very thin first off glass layer around the stainless tube. Then I cut the glass with a stanley knife and played around with the glass layer then. I would put a series of tiny wedges on the split of the glass and adjust till I was happy with clearance and then add more layers. Don't add lots of layers and then try to remove from the mandrel - at least I found this to be a royal pain in the bum. I would also be dubious of the circularity of your alloy tube - I found lots of tube to be slightly ellipsoid - so you need to be very careful with gettng clearance. Cheers Phil

[@buildingwilda]

You are absolutely right! The alloy is not as round as I would have wished.. it has been cold rolled in a shop, and I'm not super happy with the tolerances... But I accounted for some of this in the design work... Wish they were round though ...

[@jackdbur]

What speed do you think you will get from these retractable propulsion pods? What size generator are you going to use? Wouldn't Titanium or stainless steel be better for the pod housing?

[@buildingwilda]

We don't expect to be very fast at all. If we can do 5 ish knots we'll be happy. As for the generator... Ideally no generator at all... All solar and hydro generators. But I think we'll end up having a little generator just in case. Max 5kVA due to limitations on charging capacity.

[@buildingwilda]

Stainless might have been a viable option. Titanium less so. Aluminium has some good features. Being fairly easy to modify without access to a whole workshop being one of the good features... We'll see how it goes. Hopefully it works well.

[@rolandtb3]

Cutting holes, forging a unique path is challenging. What contingencies are you factoring for upgrades or changes later? Reflecting on all the changes Dan/Kika made from Uma's first electric propulsion system to their present options. Their knowledge and experience, affordability, technology, successes and failures, boat layout and weight, sailing locations, all impacted at various stages on invaluable lessons learned. Flexibility, open to modifications, proving concept right and can work. Good luck, step by step.

[@buildingwilda]

Yes, we have been watching Uma for quite a long time now. And yes, we’re bound to make upgrades and modifications as we learn from running the system. Thank you for your valuable feedback!

[@_r_ma_]

Are you planning on using bow thrusters for engines? I don't think they are rated for continuous use. They're for short burts only.

[@buildingwilda]

No.... And yes... 🤣 We're using a motor designed for continuous service at 10kW. Paired with a 30kW bow thruster leg. Not really intended for continuous use, but in principle capable of it according to the manufacturer. We will not run it for hours on end though. Have no need for it.

[@normancook4620]

Greetings ,congratulations on your endeavor and work thus far! Again to repete my prior inquiry: what system of material resistance are you utilizing to thwart the growth of organisms [ like carnivals within the tube walls doing non use storage in yhe UP position ?

[@buildingwilda]

Thanks! Sorry, I thought we'd answered that. Perhaps we'll go with nothing at all.... The thing is that the space will be deprived of oxygen due to bad circulation of water (ideally no circulation) and it will be dark, so not providing the light that most near surface organisms need... We really hope that should be enough... If not, we'll have to think of something else to try. Draining the water (would require a decent seal) or displacing the water with fresh water or something like that might do the trick. Otherwise running the thruster up and down once or twice a week should probably do the trick.

[@normancook4620]

@buildingwilda Thank you for your ti.e to reply. Your responce was rational. I am a Prof. of Advanced Marine Materials and Construction a d although I am engaged in teaching facets of Boat building,I would love to assist you in your endea or yet to come. My background is amoung other things ,I was the owner of the largest Sailoft and Canvas shop in New England, a d specialized in Multi- hull sailboats . Making Tramps as well Dodgers & Biminies. Additionally, owned a Marine Sainless Steel Hardware manufacturing company and was Project Engineer for Kenyon Marine designing Extrusion for Mast Spars & booms as well as standing rigging. I ha e worked all over the World on Architectual projects in metals & Composites. You are about to embark on the interior outfitting and again I would very much desire to assist you. Both I & my wife are officially retired [ but non old inactive duds] rather we are very active and capable and energetic. We raised a son who went to DUKE University for medical al then on to Harvard ,so he is independent of us ,freeing us up to do as we wish[ and that is potentially working with you on your cat. Think it over and consider my[ our] offer to come and assist ??!!

[@gavinferguson]

Do you have an explanation of the system I’m guessing these are for electric thrusters what’s the power system ? Will you be able to get regen from them your rudders look like the most vulnerable part now or do they have a break away option

[@buildingwilda]

Yes, thruster props. There is at least one video explaining the general concept. The whole system from solar to inverters and batteries. 10kw brushless motors on 48v DC. Yes, they are designed (the controllers) to do regenerative breaking. This is where the otherwise not ideal prop will shine. (I hope) Yes, the rudder will be more exposed than if there was a sail drive or fixed prop in front of it... I'd hardly see that as a problem though... I wouldn't want to use a propshaft or sail drive as a bumper protecting my rudder in any case 🤣 Many Schionnings are built with pop up rudders. Not mine though... Fixed have other advantages. The dagger boards will probably protect the rudders for the most part. Even though they are not fully in line.

[@robertlaird6746]

How did you come up with this design and why did you decide to go for it? By the way, your doing a fantastic job on everything including this new propulsion system. I'm impressed! Will this new system cost less than a shaft driven Yanmar diesel engine? I've seen this bow thruster installed horizontally but never vertically before. I really hope that it all works out well. Not sure how much a shaft driven with a folding prop drags but hopefully your set up eliminates 100% of any drag. It's pretty scary having such a large hole in your boat. I really hope that nothing fails or corrodes due to electrolysis.

[@buildingwilda]

Thanks! Yes, cheaper than a Yanmar. Perhaps i could have found a used one to put in for less.. But with that, comes raw water, filters, oil, exhaust, fumes, soot etc. I like clean... And not carrying a couple of hundred kilos of motors, spares and fuel around that I'm not using... I decided to go retractable and electric from the get go. At work, we have azimuth thrusters and computers running the ship and I'm a licensed ROV technician as well. I happen to enjoy building electromechanical thingies like drones and stuff.... So eventually I'll be steering Wilda with an Xbox controller 🤣

[@buildingwilda]

The opening of the cylinders is well above the waterline. Should be no problem. The prop being out of the water means it's safer as well (less likely to hit a stone or something)

[@robertlaird6746]

@@buildingwilda WOW. That is amazing and most likely a worlds first. I love it when people think outside the box and experiment with things like what your doing. The world advances trying out new things.

[@pbear6251]

Very interesting video. Are you still going to have a rudder after you build this propulsion system?

[@buildingwilda]

Absolutely. We'll still need rudders for steering under sail. Which ideally should be most of the time we are on the water. But for manouvering, you are absolutely right, not that necessary on a cat in the first place, and certainly less so if you have directional thrust.

[@pbear6251]

@@buildingwilda I saw in the video the bottom of that huge vertical cylinder a sort of flat bottom below where they prop will be in the tube and I was thinking that will create a lot of drag in the water when the propeller is in the water. Do you think this might be a problem?

[@buildingwilda]

It will definitely create some drag. The model is pretty rough though, I'll try to make the fairing block as sleek as I can. I don't expect it to be a problem. When manouvering, it will be at slow speed, so not an issue. When charging it may prove to be a bigger issue. We'll see 🙈

[@pbear6251]

@@buildingwilda I am looking forward to the final result 😀

[@maxprea3745]

Använd packtejp för att gjuta mot. Jag gör en hel del prototyper i glasfiber där jag använder packtejp för att lätt kunna separera det jag gjuter från plug. Glöm INTE att rostskydda stålet om det inte är rostfritt stål som är ingjuten i båten. Rostar stålet och sväller = sprucken plast.

[@buildingwilda]

Packtejp används flitigt på det här bygget! 🤣 Så även soppåsar och gladpack. Slickepott i silikon är en annan favorit. Funkar hur bra som helst!

[@carlamerritt490]

Is their a site or link that shows other examples of boats with this propulsion method? Or the technical name for it? I'm lost as to the physics of this method.

[@buildingwilda]

It will be a simple version of what is called a "retractable azimuth thruster" should show up on a Google search. You'll see mostly various tug boats and construction vessels with retractable ones. We're building a very basic version of the same thing.

[@svlamancha9877]

What is your intended usage of the boat? coastal marina hops or ocean voyages? 👍

[@buildingwilda]

We hope for ocean voyages with many marina anchorages in between 😇🙏

[@EnchantedEarthSounds]

How will these azipods turn, judging but the hole, which is not centered, might a issue?

[@SteveMathers978]

There is an inner and outer Aluminium cylinders . The outer is fixed to the boat , the inner has the motor and drive system . The inner goes up and down and can also turn .

[@buildingwilda]

The big hole in the boat is on the center line. The hull sides are asymetric. If you are referring to the small hole drilled in the top of the fiberglass tube, it is not centered, as you observed. The fiberglass tube will turn in unison with the aluminium pot above it, but the shaft is not the center of rotation. To minimise the size of the hole in the hull I have offset the prop and motor from center to be able to fit everything in as small a hole as possible... With a centimeter or so of extra clearance just in case... But no more.

[@buildingwilda]

And moves pretty nicely last we checked 🤣 Looking forward to replacing the mock up....

[@gorgenengman4074]

hur utprovat är detta system då ?? sett läst om andra båtar som har typ samma framdrivning ??

[@jackdbur]

FFG7's had 2 retractable L-drive pods amidships as auxiliary propulsion and for low speed manuvering lots of drilling rig ships also use retractable azipods/L or Z drives to station keep.

[@gorgenengman4074]

@@jackdbur vet att stora fartyg oljeriggar har detta men en katamaran som ska korsa atlanten segla jorden runt inte helt hundra att detta funkar i realiteten

[@buildingwilda]

I guess we'll see how well it works. It is a common misconception (in my opinion) that speed under motor is a requirement to safely navigate the world. We are building a sailboat. A very competent sailing machine with electric drives for manouvering. Retractable drives are common on this type of catamaran. Rotating, not so common. Yes, the design is my own.... We'll see how well it works. In some ways, perhaps not well at all. In others, we hope it works really well. Hope you stick around for more coming up.

[@gorgenengman4074]

Jodå är nyfiken rent ingenjörer mässigt .jag följer er väg framåt och vill gärna se och höra eran bedömning sen ❤

[@buildingwilda]

Det kommer

[@gorgenengman4074]

är detta eran egen ide konstuktion ????

[@buildingwilda]

Ja. Delvis. Att ha maskiner man kan dra ur vattnet är vanligt på den här typen av båt. Roterande är inte lika vanligt. Det finns diverse varianter av roterande poddar. Det finns inte många som gör både och. Det kommer att fungera.... Hur väl det fungerar får vi se....🤣 Förhoppningsvis bra.

[@Race353]

I am super interested in what you are doing! Please, less talking and more doing. This video was 80% "of zero value". If you ever take movie / directing school - video - the rule is Show don't Tell.

[@buildingwilda]

Thank you for the feedback! There is definitely room for learning more in the area of video editing/ movie making. We are not experts and not pretending to be. That being said, we also want to reflect the reality. On a huge project like this, progress is really slow, especially since we have not done this before and we move forward thinking and learning while doing it. Many of our videos do not show a lot of “action”. We also do not have several cameras to shoot from various angles and perspectives and to alternate the plans. Our videos show (in a humble, beginner’s way) that we are moving forward (sometimes at a snail’s pace). We are documenting our journey and we hope that one of messages that we deliver is that real life is NOT like the movies. Cutting those big holes in the boat, to us, represents a big step forward. Thanks again! We’ll try and improve with every episode.