Midwest Mayhem 8 LOSERS FINALS - C9 | Ally (Mario) vs TSM | ZeRo (Lucina)

[@Bernardo_Saldivar]

Ally was beaten by the best pikachu using samus and by the best diddy kong using lucina...

[@Doomed9000]

Bernardo Saldívar And zero was beaten by the 3rd best player in AZ, probably not even ranked top 200 in the pgr. So what's your point?

[@Bernardo_Saldivar]

I just thought it was pretty funny...

[@Doomed9000]

Bernardo Saldívar yeah I guess it is lol. But that's what is making this game so exciting. The characters are so balanced and the players are improving so much that it's making these tournaments very unpredictable. Anyone can win at anytime with any character . Going to be a great year for smash 4

[@benjaminzamoraiglesias8425]

Bernardo Saldívar the waifu power

[@joeymcginley9689]

Because Diddy and Pikachu both have difficult matchups against mario... And Samus and Lucina are both considered even matchups for mario by many.

[@theelephant2117]

I can't wait for the inevitable MK LEO Marth vs ZeRo Lucina matches

[@chefcinnabutter]

your profile pic is amazing

[@chefcinnabutter]

also it will probably be on Zero's channel

[@axelalexk2]

Not gonna happen zero has been bodying his marth with diddy

[@Archisorte]

MKLeo is now playing a bit of Corrin, I'm guessing he's going to use her for ZeRo from now on

[@Link24a]

why tf would zero go lucina against marth thats a terrible idea

[@voltingmaster5458]

If the community won't believe ZeRo that Lucina is high tier, Then ZeRo just had to use this as the perfect opportunity by finally taking down his biggest obstacle and proving it to us at the same time.

[@rahulshankar4784]

Volting Master persistentblade*

[@jmm00702]

same shit he did when he complained about pre nerf diddy being op but noone listened, so he grabbed diddy and fucked everyone in the ass with it until it got a humongous nerf.

[@TeddyBearsUnited]

Volting Master Any character can be "high tier" in the right hands.

[@rahulshankar4784]

Teddy Bears United J I G G L Y P U F F

[@voltingmaster5458]

Black Screen shouldn't be underestimated

[@grantdong7746]

Oh! So that's why Zero was using Lucina at Ignition. It was to practice for this set with Ally. Smart decision by Zero as the MU will be better(compared to Diddy) for Zero and Ally does not have any experience with Zero's playstyle with Lucina. All the stars aligned for Zero's victory.

[@kbandz_]

Lucina finally getting some recognition :')

[@identity5481]

ZSM kbandz I watch some of your stuff! Good work on the videos

[@trashcant4678]

ZSM kbandz Are you the guy that bitches about diddykong??? Lol.

[@O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

Infinite64 *Diddy Kong

[@trashcant4678]

H20 Aquarius *Diddy Kong.* Don't forget the period since you feel the need to be a shitty internet troll, lol.

[@O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

Infinite64 Periods are implemented at the end of a sentence.

[@FEARth3Change]

"ZeRo comes up with these insane combos like falling up air into-" Ima stop you right there and go look at the other Marth/Lucina mains who've been doing it since day melee/brawl.

[@Nit0WasTaken]

I really feel like Ally should implement down tilt into his gameplay. A lot of times where he whiffed a grab down tilt would have connected. It combos into up airs just as much as down throw at mid percents and leads into a grab at low percents anyway. Definetly Mario's most underrated tool.

[@ricardoludwig4787]

GoDAnimations I think he just needs to start watching zenyou and pratice extensions with him

[@zeldrio6079]

Definetly. I dont see Much Mario's using this. (unless its a ledge trump.)

[@oOXIED8Oo]

I've been playing Lucina since Day 1 of smash 4 and personally I believe marth and Lucina are two different characters. Marth can get those early percentage confirms with tipper but Lucina has much more of a reliability factory. And she's the waifu. Lmfao. (Sarcasm)

[@blazegoldenblade5462]

oOXIED8Oo I don't think really think you can call them 2 different characters. Their neutrals are so similar, along with many of their set ups. Lucina and marth at this point are more of extensions of one another.

[@chefcinnabutter]

Marth is my main, but i use lucina for bad match-ups. If that doesn't work I will switch to pit/mega-man/pika.

[@OneLazyBoi]

oOXIED8Oo I play/main lucina

[@smoothsoulbrotha]

oOXIED8Oo Lucina main here too. Been using her ever since like 4 months past the release date.

[@RasenShot]

Day 1 Lucina mains unite :')

[@wesley777y]

And after all this time hating and looking down on Lucina, ZeRo shows that he can achieve things with her against no less than ALLY. Love Lucina and I'm grateful of ZeRo for giving her some good representation.

[@perryb.2732]

I love how so many characters are viable in smash 4

[@fuducker2]

Looks like ZeRo has finally found his answer to Ally: waifu

[@dreadfury2485]

I hope this is ZeRo's answer to the Ally crisis.

[@theinternetpacifist4898]

People say ZeRo can't beat Ally, but who said PersistentBlade couldn't?

[@samuelvibritannia4831]

Dreadfury personally if it is it seems like a much better choice than the Cloud to me, Ally seemed to have his number Cloud or not.

[@dreadfury2485]

I don't really want to discount ZeRo's Cloud, but it's just extremely unpolished. It's the Sheikest Cloud I've ever seen (lots of fairs in the neutral, questionable use of Limit, etc.). ZeRo's Lucina definitely seems modeled on Leo's Marth playstyle in a big way but is still distinctly ZeRo's in terms of how he handles the Neutral. If he can keep this up against Mario consistently I'd be impressed, but I seriously wonder how he'd be able to deal with Rosa, since that's starting to look a bit more problematic. Pocket MK, perhaps? Brawl 2.0?

[@soul7168]

MrJPenguin1 Not really he doesnt do bad at all vs mario just ally. 6-0 at tbh6 anyone? Beside in pools you're going to find 10000 Mario's anyway lol

[@renishbadarpura7740]

Dreadfury Zero doesn't struggle against rosa, kirihara is just really good and usually beats zero in friendlys

[@orb3796]

Can't wait til people call Lucina OP , ask for nerfs because obviously zero gets carried , and then complain about the new top tiers. Oh boi I love the smash community.

[@orb3796]

Comments you'll see in the future: "Ugh , Lucinas Up-B is stupidly strong and fast." "Why does she have the same range as marth???" "Broken shit even without an projectile. Nice balancing Sakurai" "Lucinas counter is braindead" "Lucina is soooo easy to use. Its stupid" "Shieldbreaker shouldnt exist" "Zero using top tiers again..."

[@luciou2181]

Literally nobody would comment that.

[@natecallon9755]

Orbit 01 that literally didn't even happen yet, why is your mindset so negative when everything is fine

[@julioarcaiko]

LucioU you're obviously new here

[@luciou2181]

You're obviously wrong here, literally nobody complains about Lucina and nobody ever will. I have been in this community since the game came out too.

[@tokenetta8070]

Now ppl are gonna say how lame Lucina is because she's top tier now. :)

[@alixlaphaise4116]

Tokenetta True. I'm finding myself getting annoyed with Marth tbh, but I'm not saying anything, because I wasn't complaining before MKLeo, I have no right to complain now. Lucina might be the same, although I already play her as a pocket, so I doubt it.

[@gv82089]

Tokenetta Lucina is high-mid tier, learn your facts scrub

[@heavystorming]

I was unable to find the grand finals of this tournament.

[@toronte1237]

Erik Mercado same

[@vu00008]

Unrivaled Tournaments is still uploading stuff from last night's internet issue

[@heavystorming]

I had to visit unrivaled tournament's twitch channel to watch the losers finals, but the fight between zero and zinoto is not available

[@heavystorming]

Thank you for the grand finals link dude, i was able to watch it. Thank you very much.

[@supersmashtoons656]

Erik Mercado what link?

[@doctorhu6516]

Zero's lucky that Persistentblade was there to take out Ally for him

[@bagfaceman1656]

Kevin Hu ayyyyyy

[@Krissj100]

Would be sweet if Lucina ended up replacing Cloud as ZeRo's secondary.

[@WithinAllReason]

Krissj100 I actually asked Zero about this at the tournament and he said his cloud probably wont be coming back in bracket now that hes using Lucina

[@finklemeire603]

Krissj100 pretty sure Sturm confirmed Lucina is his secondary

[@Krissj100]

Cool! We have more than enough Clouds running around already, so it's nice to see the world's best Smash 4 player instead repping a rarely seen character like Lucina from time to time.

[@2maka5u]

Finkle Meire thank god, because as a ZeRo fan, it physically hurts me every time he whiffs limit. Also, Ally can't beat Leo's Marth, so this was definitely a good choice if his whole intention was to counter Ally lol

[@rahulshankar4784]

Krissj100 persistentblade*

[@baaauniverse]

this sounds dumb but sometimes when I do the dancing blade I only get the first two hits and never the last one?

[@christopherfigueroa3083]

11:10-11:15 ally breaking start button

[@Brandon999LFC]

why does everyone secondary lucina now? even i do

[@stillakilla]

Klink Klang same

[@Sabbathfaax]

Ash Kgpln honestly, marth isn't even that much harder seeing as both require the same spacing to be optimal, and Marth just gets more reward for the same effort. I dual main Lucina with g&w and have zero trouble playing marth and landing tipper

[@destroyerofblades8923]

Klink Klang Lucina is my Main, she's been my main for 2 years.

[@bjnwn7065]

I main Marth/Lucina. But Lucina is a terrific secondary, being both top tier and easy.

[@smoothsoulbrotha]

Klink Klang the real question is why is everyone late to the party? Let's just say I've been a Lucina main since before smash dlc was a thing.

[@miniyodadude6604]

Hey guys, it's the civil war set we've been waiting for, how many weeks now? XD

[@kami2938]

Bro ally was so nervous, he always airdodged. Props to Zero

[@finklemeire603]

XynZ he air dodge approaches marthcina all the top

[@voltingmaster5458]

No longer will anyone doubt Lucina ever again!

[@FrnzFrdnnd]

Hope will never die!

[@Blastros01]

Damn, your counter got countered #feelsbadman. Good set, Zero is always evolving his gameplay.

[@Tempura93]

Love watching top level Lucina play.

[@JoshDLeon]

TFW Lucina's SH Up Air to other aerials was already a thing and has been for a year. I'm not complaining tho, Lucina's finally getting recognition!

[@emblumm8403]

I'm so late when did zero pick up lucina?

[@canallin5302]

Why lucina and not marth? I think the tipper mechanic is a lot better in hands of a top player like Zero

[@rahulshankar4784]

Canallin persistentblade*

[@charliedickson1443]

Canallin Lucina does well in some matchups. Like Marth has some trouble against sonic and other fast characters while Lucina does well

[@stormycd392]

Canallin He said he likes consistency. He doesn't want to rely on the fact that he MIGHT get a tipper.

[@jahbariejefferson3734]

I would love to see Lucina/Marth Zero/Leo doubles. Or even Zero(lucina) vs MkLeo(marth)

[@benandrew21]

There's nothing more satisfying to watch in Smash than a Mario losing. God damn do I hate that character

[@Ryusuta]

Watching Bayo and Cloud losing, honestly.

[@NinetyNineNo]

Man, this PersistentBlade kid is going places!

[@etaquince5220]

So... zero is a lucina player now what did I miss?

[@sonpham3438]

Pretty sure that marth is better in this match up so why did he pick Lucina ? Or is he not good enough to use marths tipper and non-tipper hitboxes properly at that level ?

[@59hawks]

Son Pham Zero find consistity better, and since lucina is marth with no sweet or sour spot, he finds her more effective.

[@davidization6]

14:00 did Zero just spit in his hand before shaking?

[@kenii28]

lucina is awesome! it does feel weird watching zero play anyone but diddy but okay

[@dinhatime1014]

kenii28 I

[@beardlessdragon]

"I didn't think magnet hands would be that good." My dude, she has the best magnet hands in the game. They are actually stupid XD

[@kris8571]

This is like how I beat up For Glory Mario mains, although ZeRo is at a whole new level. ZeRo should use Marth and Ike next.

[@edwardmorris3610]

This smart, practiced lucina at the strongest smash scene so he could be ready for matchups like this. Nice, well deserved, finally just not being diddy

[@Flameraven50]

The announcers were definitely biased in ZeRo's favor... anytime Lucina made a combo they were like "OH LUCINA GETTING SICK COMBOS!" but when Mario made a really good combo, they were just like "Lucina is getting beat up pretty bad..."

[@jalene150]

I'm glad Zero is using another character. He's amazingly good, but Diddy has some really tough MUs. Ally is still good with just Mario since he's a very balanced character. Decent speed, decent power, okay movement options, grab combos for days, busted upsmash. Easily top 10 character.

[@xx_v_xx4373]

jalene150 wouldnt say Marios a tough MU for Diddy bc i feel its even as a Mario main, but its moreso the Ally matchup thats tough for ZeRo and has always been since GOML with the exception of Endgame and ZeRos runback. Your not wrong tho

[@HeirofBlood124]

I love how ZeRo used t say Marcina wasn't high tier Now he's not only calling them Top Tier he's using them in Majors and Weeklies Kinda happy ngl xD But ZeRo should learn the UpB variations tbh He wouldn't have lost the very first stock if he did

[@ericofficially]

So, why Lucina instead of Marth?

[@emerald_espeon]

Mendez Abraham persistentblade

[@pog7547]

I love how Zero plays

[@rahulshankar4784]

Navi persistentblade*

[@gv82089]

Navi I don't

[@kovassb7050]

Vikki really likes the phrases "disadvantage state" and "capitalize" and " no amount of *insert smash term here* can save him from *move name*"

[@philemon_memento4686]

Ok just wondering but who is PersistentBlade? As a Lucina main before ZeRo started using her in these tourneys and gave her recognition I'm ashamed of myself.

[@destroyerofblades8923]

BloodEye Ghoul I think when they say PersistentBlade, they're referring to Lucina because her sword damage is the same throughout her whole sword.

[@philemon_memento4686]

Ok thx for clearing that up. I thought it was some player that was a really good Lucina main and I've just never heard about. The only Lucina mains that goes to tournaments are C-lu and Nairo (though a secondary like ZeRo)

[@blazegoldenblade5462]

BloodEye Ghoul persistent blade was zero. He used that tag as disguise during a tourney a bit back. He played solo lucina.

[@Fuiger]

PersistentBlade is a tag Zero used and nobody knew it was him, he was the best of an online ladder in which he played with Lucina, that's why people call him PersistentBlade, it has nothing to do with Lucina's moves lmao.

[@destroyerofblades8923]

Fuiger 6 oh cool, I had no idea who PersistentBlade was either, it just seemed related to Lucina in some way. Lol

[@kennethsmith8474]

When Civil War happens after Civil War.

[@grantdong7746]

Zero and Ally end up in Loser's Finals quite often, lol

[@smoothsoulbrotha]

Glad to see Zero, using my main. XD

[@mo533]

You know what, Zero won, & I'm not even mad. Shoutouts to my girl Luci.

[@jalene150]

Wait Zero is in the Midwest? I know Vanessa lives somewhere crazy close to my house (same town). I'm hoping to run into the man someday at a grocery store. Lmfao

[@chefcinnabutter]

People need to stop playing ally like they are going against a top player, and play him like they are doing a match-up. Ally is one of the best players in the world, so if you challenge him in a test of skill most people will lose. Esam, and Zero (who are known to have Ally as a tourney demon) both played him using a good match-up and won, with games to spare.

[@NovaBushido]

Persistent Blade strikes again!

[@RizenLink]

This was ZeRo vs Ally -.-

[@NovaBushido]

LOL it's a joke... Zero announce himself as the player persistent blade who was high ranking on SmashLadder playing Lucina...

[@DrumsMPXF]

Does these guys get paid for being top players?

[@vaquishers]

Ya know. if Zero gonna space, he should have used Marth

[@rahulshankar4784]

vaquishers persistentblade*

[@carlossalomonvaladezhernan5719]

Sorry, someone can explain me why is this losers final?, Zero is not the winner of the tournament?

[@grantdong7746]

There is a winners bracket and a losers bracket. When a player loses one set, he is moved from winners to losers. All the losers participate in their own bracket(losers quarters, semis, finals, etc) and the winner of losers finals will face off winner of winner's finals. This is called Grand Finals and the player from losers has to win two sets to win the tournament where as the one from winner's only needs to win on set. Zero beat Zinoto in two sets in Grand Finals at this tournment after he beat Ally, so Zero won the whole tournament.

[@blankszone2276]

Ik its not as easy as in melee but them Lucina comboes are straight out of melee but let's Go ZeRo

[@TheDihaan]

wait are you saying melee combo's are easier than smash 4 combo's?

[@buandon]

Dihaan Choudhury that's no what he meant he meant that he knows that melee combos are hard to pull off, but in that clip it looks like it to him.

[@TheDihaan]

+Buandon Kingtana oh ok

[@oliverhernandez8103]

he's talking about bread and butter marth combos

[@cooper1431]

Blank Zone lucina is really easy compared to marth

[@jonathansmith6302]

These commentators I like.

[@flynn5683]

Persistent blade returns

[@sebaschan-uwu]

omfg i love zero

[@1Dayax]

how old is ally?

[@noefletes9094]

26

[@baaauniverse]

Top 5 character betrayals

[@vernondoney8347]

No amount of magnet hands can save ZeRo _heeeere!_ I mean, yeah, it could've...

[@Clear256]

I don't think Ally will lose this again. It looked like he wasn't too sure of what to do the whole time

[@Archisorte]

Doesn't that just make it a reason for him to lose to PersistentBlade again?

[@buandon]

14:02 ZeRo just put his hand on his mouth and shake Ally's hand with it D I S G U S T I N G ! !

[@Aflay1]

9:50 I bet that's the only reason Zero picked Lucina.

[@Aflay1]

They should just make a new tier for Ally and Zero.

[@loganperry7938]

I wanna see Zero's Lucina against Ryo's Ike.

[@PayArcanum]

Does anyone else think the commentating is cringey?

[@shouganai.]

Retrodox Totally. Both voices are utterly annoying.

[@lolm2k376]

Not even close. It's always some scrub complaining about perfectly fine commentary.

[@bunnyhopgaming943]

good stuff to zero for over coming his demon. Though Ally STILL has a 6--2 record over zero.

[@grabbit9238]

bunny hop 7-6 in zeros favor bro

[@bunnyhopgaming943]

King P1mp I ment 2016--2017

[@sage5578]

people say lucina is bad when she is very good, maybe better than marth.

[@xXRedZeroXx]

I see now why a lot of people is starting to use Lucina...

[@gogomarioloshi]

inb4 persistent blade comments

[@PatrickDormanTurdleDash]

"ThATs NAwT dIDdy KonG!!1!"

[@valleyoptometry2105]

Nice Marth play, ZeRo

[@rahulshankar4784]

Papa Yahn/Jan persistentblade*

[@manliestmarshadow391]

Remember the old match guys lol :3

[@xenophacilus5895]

This is a party game right? XD

[@UnsungSoldiers]

SHOUTOUTS TO PERSISTENTBLADE

[@こう-t8f]

ZeRoルキナ強すぎる！

[@EJJTheMiner]

ZeRo best Lucina and Diddy

[@rahulshankar4784]

EJJTheMiner persistentblade*

[@EJJTheMiner]

U rite

[@bjnwn7065]

EJJTheMiner true

[@justinnguyen1090]

Great to see Zero using Lucina anything is more fun to watch than broken Diddy

[@EJJTheMiner]

Diddy really isn't broken. I've seen you complaining in the comments for 2 videos now. Give it a break and practice vs Diddy instead.

[@orb3796]

EJJTheMiner Him actually putting in work? That would be insane... Complaining is easier than actually finding counter strategies

[@EJJTheMiner]

Orbit 01 looool

[@soul7168]

Orbit 01 You know he's trolling you right? lol

[@chepemasacuata1]

EJJTheMiner I said the same thing this kid bitches every chance he gets

[@Cat6768]

"regardless of tipper or not" the commentator is clueless

[@theshusher1234]

11:00 what the flip did he just say

[@cruztati0n389]

Fuck yes

[@John-bv2ou]

havent you noticed that ally has really gone down hill after civil war, maybe he lost his confidence

[@grantdong7746]

Downhill? He hasn't done much big tournaments after civil war and out of the four he participated in, this was the only one he didn't win. Where are you getting "downhill" from?

[@trapmaster123rd]

Waifu warriors rejoice

[@thunder-vw7on]

zero will probably go lucina against ally now

[@rahulshankar4784]

thunder1721 persistentblade*

[@rich_calibur9957]

y do they always pick that animal crossing bord in a match like really

[@Cpt.Deplorable]

its widely considered the best stage.

[@rqffy2451]

ayy

[@spaghettioverlord3247]

The revenge of civil war

[@deluxe1886]

Lucina´s moveset: F-air B-air U-air N-air Side B F-smash Lucina's F-air is like Sheik's, it is useful in any situation (and spammable :v)

[@oniichama5995]

Lucina's F-smash is super underrated, it's one of the fastest F-smashes in the game and it can KO at 60-70 near the ledge, it's insanely strong, and without the tipper factor.

[@deluxe1886]

I agree, it´s pretty underrated and fast, very strong. If you are a Brawl or Melee Player, you would prefer Lucina´s F Smash than Marth´s, that´s because in Brawl you still had good hitstun if didn´t hit with the tipper, but in Smash 4, Marth´s F Smash became very very bad, only good with the tipper.

[@trashcant4678]

Took you guys that long? Lol

[@wesley777y]

The internet went down in the venue for some reason, they couldn't even stream the Grand Finals. Ally saved us all through his twitter.

[@samuelvibritannia4831]

Infinite64 their upload speed is actually godlike the internet issue actually was the problem here

[@Chario_]

Wesley777i A moment of silence for his 1.5 GB

[@trashcant4678]

Samuel vi Britannia yeah ive heard :/ thats why they didnt stream grands

[@trashcant4678]

Wesley777i I saw too, on periscope.

[@papersonic9941]

PersistentBlade is too good.

[@WulfSight]

Just watch the game . And the players closely .

[@93krstn]

Good job zero. Beat your demon.

[@robbiesarkioglu5623]

3:18-3:20 wtf is he having a seizure? lmao

[@SlimReaper04]

What Civil War? ZeRo used Lucina. (I'd rather use Marth) but I'm impressed!

[@lowzones605]

look at Ally's badges xD

[@Geemoney22]

I wonder how many comments are going to say Lucina is better than Marth. And how everyone secondaries her now. I hate followers and bandwagons the Marcinas didn't need u before and we don't need players run around spamming fsmash with Lucina. Lucina and Marth has always had potential even pre patch Marth and Lucina

[@chefcinnabutter]

It is because Lucina is easier to pick up than marth, because you don't have to worry about the damage dealt throughout her falchion. you don't see as many people maining Lucina, as you do marth. You don't see as many people counterpicking/secondarying marth as you do lucina. I personally main Marth.

[@GunbatsuShowdown]

Gerald Sanders Toxic much?

[@Geemoney22]

Dio Brando No lol just a hard working marth main

[@danramirez8553]

I thought that was a little kid.