Upgrade your Presonus Studiolive Series III Mixer

Is it possible to upgrade a Presonus Studiolive Series III mixer?
In this video I explore a couple improvments you could make for your studio.
#studiolife #presonusstudiolive #presonus #500seriesrack #externalpreamps #dac

[@michaelanderson4265]

Excellent information..!!

[@EdgetoneStudios]

Glad you found it useful. But I will note that I moved away from the Burl B2 because after months of listening, I found that the difference in clarity (which was slight) wasn't worth the price of the DAC and the fact that I couldn't solo channels while tracking if listening to the Burl.

[@BopsStudios]

wow, finally someone is talking reality!!!! thank you!!!!!!

[@EdgetoneStudios]

Which part did you feel was real? The fact that you can do these, or that they are minor upgrades overall?

[@jthunderbass1]

A Dante 500 series box would be very helpful for all of this.

[@nyaudioengineer]

If you want to hear what the difference is try this: Record music through the analog output of the Presonus back into your DAW then record the same music from the Burl analog outputs back into your DAW. Make sure both tracks are accurately time aligned and flip the polarity of one of the tracks. The result heard will be what is different about the two tracks.

[@EdgetoneStudios]

Well I just got one of the MOTU 16As back with one faulty channel so that could give me the ability to record both simultaneously. However, I don't think I'll bother. I can hear what the Burl is doing to the sound now, and overall I lke the change. I'll be mixing through that DAC from now on.

[@mikehaskell8038]

Thanks for the aes explanation

[@EdgetoneStudios]

The funny thing is that AES just stands for the Audio Engineering Society, so it's not a very descriptive title. Also referred to as AES/EBU, which includes the European Broadcasting Union. They are the bodies that developed the standard which I think is called AES3, and was designed to pass digital audio between CDs and DVDs to Amplifiers and TVs.

[@craigtate6546]

Yes, it is a fact that Presonus sounds good all by itself. I have found that the midrange clarity is where it falls short;however, a bit of eq and you are golden. I recently connected through to my Apollo X6 inputs to do a A/B comparison and notice the Apollo has clarity in the mid rage and sounds kind of thin. Again, some eq and you are golden. Eternal converters just adds color. The real sound is in the analog ream. For Example, when I connect my outboard Neve pre to the Presonus bypassing all digital stages, it sounds like a Neve. No problem.

[@EdgetoneStudios]

Yes. I think the real upgrade comes from external preamps. The DAC is perfectly fine on it's own, but it was cool to try out an external DAC for comparison.

[@christianfarrell795]

I am thinking of these same upgrades as well with my Studiolive 32SC soon. In addition to upgrading the DAC, could you see an improvement in using an upgraded ADC coming back into an external aggregate interface of some kind back into the computer if you used the higher end DAC for an analog external 2 buss master bus chain? Just a thought I’m having, although I’m currently happy just coming back in two channels of the Studiolive to capture my master mix now (I like mixing a lot if the eq and comps with the mixer itself). Great channel by the way, thank you for all your testing of gear efforts they have really helped me out lately to make some critical gear decisions and workflows in my own studio!

[@EdgetoneStudios]

You're welcome, thanks for watching. Yes, you could also get some more improvement on recording a mixdown through some cool analogue gear then back into a separate ADC. In the case of Stuio One this would be more complicated. Studio One doesn't allow you to define two interfaces at the same time. So the only way I think I could do it is to mix through Studio One, out the AES through the Burl DAC, then have a different DAW (or separate computer) connected to the ADC unit to record the mix down. What I've done now, to keep external mix bus processing a little simpler is to connect Mix 15/16 to my Heritage Successor and Mäag EQ4M and then back into channels 31/32. That way I can either ignore the mix bus; or record stereo sources, such as drum overheads, thtrough that chain by setting up the Aux Mix while tracking; or I can go into interface mode while mixing and send the mains out Mix 15/16 and record the resulting bus compression back through channels 31/32.

[@christianfarrell795]

@@EdgetoneStudios how do you send your mixer channels out to the Burl 32, individual or bussed out in pairs or mono? And then after that how do you access the mix bus hardware, through an aux mix send and then back or just linked to the end of the Burl 32 analog outs and then back into mixer channels? I use Logic so I can aggregate another device but I may not go that far into that journey yet :)

[@EdgetoneStudios]

@@christianfarrell795 I've removed the Burl B32 Vancouver from my setup. I found that most of the time I wasn't bothering with analogue summing. Studio One's Mix Engine FX does a great job at emulating analogue consoles with crosstalk and noise dialed to taste, so I just use that now. I do like having an analogue mix bus compressor and eq though. When I was using the B32, I had 16 stereo mixes going into channels 9-24 (1-8 are mono). I would put the console into Interface mode when mixing, then assign buses in the DAW to those pairs of outputs. I had the patchbay connections normaled so that the B32 out went into the Successor and the Successor out went into the EQ4M. The EQ then went back into channels 31/32.

[@Featherlightstudio]

Great overview of the StudioLive series! These are such underrated boards. We use a 32SC via AVB and the Presonus 32.16 and the ability to save preamp gain positions is a game changer. The Burl B2 is a killer DAC for sure but, I wonder if that same $2500 spent on better room treatment or correction software ( Like the new IK ARC module ) might have made a bigger improvement in overall sound.

[@EdgetoneStudios]

You are absolutely correct. The DAC upgrade is so subtle and minor that you would be much better off improving other areas of your system. I would put this near the absolute bottom in terms of gear. Like you mentioned, better montiors, or treating your room, or nicer mics would be first choices. But I thought it was interesting that this was an option. I've spent a couple months listening to the Burl DAC exclusively, and only switched to the Presonus out during a recent tracking session (because I needed to solo an input). After that I started A/Bing again, and I've decided the B2 isn't worth the minor "difference" in sound for the price. I now plan to sell mine and go back to the default DAC in the board. It really doesn sound nice, just slightly brighter and slightly less "full" sounding in the upper mids.

[@Featherlightstudio]

@@EdgetoneStudios Love the idea of using the AES as an optional feed for a DAC though, do you find you have to give up sync to the AVB if you choose AES, is it either/or?

[@EdgetoneStudios]

@@Featherlightstudio The AES output seems to be completely independant of the AVB. My tracking is set up via AVB on my 16R, and I was switching back and forth between the Burl and the Mains out on my last tracking session with no issues or delays.

[@HalcyonGuitars]

HNY to you too, and Santa, if you’re listening, a pair of 4710’s wouldn’t be amiss…

[@EdgetoneStudios]

My original plan was to go with a pair of 4710's. Hope you've got a secret santa.

[@GaryClement-sb8tm]

I currently have the Universal Audio X4, and I’m thinking about maybe more inputs in the future, my thoughts are to add the PreSonus StudioLive 16R 18x16 Digital Rack Mixer With 16 XMAX Preamps- what are your thoughts? Or should I just use another audio board? 7

[@EdgetoneStudios]

Well the Studio Live don't have ADAT, so they can't be used as an expansion for the X4. If I was sticking with an X4, I would add a Cranborne 500ADAT and fill it with nice 500 series preamps. But there are lots of other options too. MOTU makes some nice gear like the 8Pre, which would be a nice 8 channel expansion.

[@dillonvado]

Forgive the pointed question… but I’m confused if you’re swapping out most of the preamps AND the DAC, then why bother with the presonus unit at all? Like what are you getting out of that that you wouldn’t just be better off bypassing altogether? Maybe the faders I suppose?

[@EdgetoneStudios]

That's a totally valid question and something I ponder a lot (seriously, I'm changing things up again because of it). For me, getting the external DAC was more a matter of curiousity and gear lust. I had just finished repairing that big Sony Console, and after deciding it wasn't right for my space (again that all started because of curiousity and gear lust), I thought I could just make things that much better with the DAC. But two weeks ago, after primarily using the B2 Bomber, I switched back to the StudioLive output and realized the difference was subtle and the Burl completely unnecessary. My main reason to get the StudioLive was hands on control. So I can set up a live mix quickly once levels are set. The external preamps are more because I like gear, and they give me preamp flavour options (something the StudioLive doesn't have. But they also have another benefit: For each of those inputs I save a step when making adjustments. Since they go into Line Inputs, I leave the StudioLive inputs at 0db and can easily reach over and adjust trim, eq and compression without having to select the channel first. One of the things that I often accidentally do is start adjusting a channel on the StudioLive after selecting the wrong channel. It's a minor thing, but it does save some time (though I can still make mistakes and adjust the wrong input). With my latest setup, I'm using 12 external pres, but still using the other 20 internal pres for synths and drum machines.

[@EdgetoneStudios]

I just realized, there is one other reason to use the external preamps. By using external preamps, and connecting them through a patchbay to Line Inputs, I get the flexibility of having Line input accessible at the patchbay, but also have the ability to use those same inputs as Mic inputs. This prevents having to reach behind the console to repatch, but also gives the ability to insert external hardware (such as my analogue saturator) between the preamp and the line input.

[@lmrecorders]

Does the Presonus have a multichanne; digital input format? MADI, Dante?

[@EdgetoneStudios]

The Presonus Studiolive primary multichannel computer connection is USB. It's limited to 48 kHz sampling rate, but that's not an issue for many, such as myself. They also support AVB. I've tried connecting a MOTU 16A over AVB to the Presonus 32s and it worked flawlessly. I have not tried AVB connection to a computer, but that may be possible. I've also now integrated a Presonus 16R rack mixer into my setup. Although I'm limited to 32 channels simultaneously, I now have channels 1-16 of the 32s connected with the 16R, so that I could have more combo jacks and more "permanent" studio connections. By pressing the Analog or Network button with any of those channels selected, I can quickly switch between the built in mic pre on the 32s, or the jack on the 16R, without having to patch.

[@lmrecorders]

@@EdgetoneStudios I've been in the tascam digital console ecosystem for about 20 years and they have had cards that can add various types of i/o as part of the line. I have 3x 8 channel aes cards that I use to make the console a piece of digital plumbing only. My front end is burl converters and outboard preamps. My output dac is a Trinnov. My converters are connected to a Motu 112D via madi and the 112D is connected to the console via aes. I only use the console preamps for my talkback system. I use the 24 busses on the console as my inputs for my daw. A console is a very powerful studio hub. It's something the tascam line did well for a few generations. Unfortunately they don't make these studio oriented desks any longer. Their newer digital desks are more oriented around live sound operations.

[@EdgetoneStudios]

@@lmrecorders Yes, studio use always seems to be an after thought for digital mixer manufacturers. Presonus has done a pretty good job, but they could do more to make it more versitile for studio users.

[@mangoman3038]

Studiolive 3 has same issue with network card...suddenly computer cannot recognize the hardware...then need to replace network card...but it will happen again and again...

[@EdgetoneStudios]

What did support say about your disconnect issues?