Upon the Origins of the Men of Gold, Stone, & Iron (Warhammer 40k Lore)

[@arkroyalslegalteam4911]

Oclulus: *gets death threats from the Ordo Hereticus for writing about heresy* Also Oculus: *immediately goes off and writes about tech-heresy even the Mechanicus won’t go anywhere near* The audacity of this mad lad knows no bounds!

[@GRBoi1993]

Pwysch When you have a mandate from a son of the God Emperor, you’re a hard man to touch.

[@arkroyalslegalteam4911]

@@GRBoi1993 Emphasis on *hard* rather than impossible to touch. The Avenging Son is still a pragmatist above all; as we found out from the Ordo Hereticus last time...

[@chairmeme6231]

*inquisitional mumbling*

[@lamb_link]

Pwysch. The signs are clear, our most beloved of chroniclers must have been a member of the Imperial Guard before he was blessed with his current assignment. He has the kind of balls only a man who’s rushed a daemon with a rusty bayonet has.

[@piotrd.4850]

What death threats? It was just a little chat and friendly pat on the back!

[@TheCamwon]

the story of Oculus is getting deeper. soon we will need a lore video to explain the lore of our lore videos.

[@judgenitsuj4402]

Insert "yo dawg" reference

[@OniLeafNin]

I think in the book Dark Imperium, Guilliman talks about how he established a new order of historators. He empowers them to seek the truth behind the veils of inquisitorial redactions, broken records etc. Occulus is one such Historator, part of the team put together by the Primarch himself. Thats the only reason I can think of that he gets audience with the Avenging Son and is allowed to look at the nature of Chaos.

[@brianparker9711]

V

[@rickconnolly5006]

@@judgenitsuj4402 I Hurd you like lore videos, so we....

[@TheForbs999]

"Loreception

[@TCRP117]

Inquisitor: "We're watching you. Always. Even The Avenging Son cannot save you if we deem your death necessary. Tread carefully with your avenues of research." Oculus Imperia: *snorts a rail of powdered Obscura* "Lemme tell you about these Gold, Iron and Stone Men I done read about." Guilliman: "... Daddamnit." Genuinely wonderful work. Bravo!

[@atsukunisumeragi1967]

Even Dddddoomrider and Sir Kaldor aren't that high.

[@SpacepilotPirx]

"Daddamnit", I love that!

[@Bornst3ll3r]

Lmao! Daddamnit

[@piotrd.4850]

[..] Maybe you are right. Maybe I can't always protect all my Historators. Yet, you can be damn well sure I'll AVENGE them [..]

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Dadammit. Love it!

[@AdeptusForge]

I do appreciate how you somehow turned what was 7-8 sentences of old lore from now only semi-canonical sources into a full 40 minute ear song. Lovely.

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

all lore is cannon. warhammer doesn't retcon

[@ubiquitouspanda4466]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau is relieved

[@MrEugene112]

So lovely it boggles the mind.

[@Jake007123]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 Tell that to the Necrons, lol.

[@corperk]

40k have no canon.

[@mr.smithsgovermentclass4556]

The Inquisition: "Tread carefully, historian" Oculus: "So lemme tell you 'bout this dude Ollanius Pious..."

[@jesseberg3271]

So, I know the legend of the lone human soldier (who may have been an Astartes or a Custodian) who charged Horus during the Emperor's duel with him is well known in the modern Imperium. Is Pious's name not attached to the legend, or is it just that nobody knows that Pious was a perpetual or what a perpetual even is?

[@Sebomai-b8i]

*Ol' Persson*

[@7F0X7]

I have a feeling there will DEFINITELY be a part 2 to that "little chat" Oculus had with the inquisition. The poor man never learns...

[@syvarris467]

inb4 Inquisitor Doorsmash raids your hab-block again like he did when you listed the names of most holy Constantin (Gerald) Valdor

[@Jake007123]

@@jesseberg3271 Originally in the story he was a simple nameless guardsmen who sacrificed himself interposing his boy against Horus, giving a short speech about if he dies trillions upon trillions are there to replace him, symbolising the impossibility of Horus dominating mankind since they are countless and they will always fight to the end, their bravery and mega balls of steel as their main weapon, when he betrayed the Emperor. Since then, it has been like a million times retconned to be either a Custodian, a Space Marine, a Perpetual (Ollanius Pius), a weird mix of the three (like 3 guys sacrificing themselves) etc, because the Imperial Guard can't have nice things. I think it was beautiful the first time, and boring the retconned versions.

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

The ancient Terran philosopher once said: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold multiple contradictory ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function". How are you faring so far, historitor?

[@bryanbarcelo5440]

that sounds exactly like what a Tzeentch cultist might say. watch your back, the Inquisition knows where you live

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

@@bryanbarcelo5440 You're the one to talk, an abominable intellegence and a malevolent one at that :P

[@abefroman8202]

All hail the lord of wisdom!

[@phreakazoith2237]

Futurama's Robo Santa is built with anti paradox technology so he cannot be destroyed by somebody telling him he must kill himself for he is bad. So, yeah. works fine for that mad robot.

[@sethrinker9944]

The new Leagues of Votann lore maps onto the Men of Stone lore in this video incredibly well.

[@respectfulevil9022]

Thats because they likely are the men of stone. They where fleets sent out to explore the stars and carried men of iron (ironkin) with them

[@hallo-mt5tx]

i like how he disses the inquisition after getting interrogated by an inquisitor and told that they are listening to everything he does balls of auramite

[@redline841]

haha oculus tsundere.

[@scottland8698]

Must’ve been in the guard

[@doomguy9049]

I don't think Guilliman would let Oculus be purged or turned into a servitor(yet) by inquisition goons, he's still got an important mission to accomplish 😇

[@rossdiggle]

The inquisitor said she wanted him to probe and question, just that she'd be watching. She doesn't want a lick spittle. She wants someone to ask the difficult questions. Then if need be, be the scapegoat.

[@shotguncleric]

"The answer, as the wise know, is simple. It is finally because Humanity had the arts at their disposal to make their dreams reality... and the dreams of Humanity have ever been the darkest things in all of creation." *bruh*

[@thepaladinofthenorth2027]

The Inqustion: "Stop telling people about shit we are trying to keep hidden!" Oclulus: "How bout I do anyway!" Pretty sure the killing of that previous magos had caused him to be a bit more spiteful than usual and now he's just testing them. Good work however, I'm enjoying what almost seems like a slow fall to the rengade life.

[@xdxchuckles]

Renegade? No. A pursuer of the imperial truth. The way the empire of man was intended to be.

[@brandondabbs2593]

I now no longer have the reason i had to go on. And through that strife i have been listening to this channel. Im going to stand outside of the door for as long as i can. Anything trying to get in... Was better off just going the other way.

[@faolan1686]

@@brandondabbs2593. Mate, are you ok?

[@vdate]

To quote those much more talented than I, I'd characterize the Oculus as one who "did not so much fall, as saunter vaguely downwards."

[@Krooow118]

Hidden deep in the records is the mention of a human warrior, who is christened "Decker", defended ancient Holy Terra from the men of stone.

[@ThatAdamIsMild]

Is that a sly reference to Bladerunner, or is there genuinely a mention in the lore of that?

[@Krooow118]

Sadly, as those records are sealed, we will never know

[@seanwilkinson8696]

Decker from Star Trek: The Motion Picture, using his great plasma cannon. In his pants.

[@Ghostwolf82]

@@ThatAdamIsMild Given what we now know about the Leagues of Votann, I’d say your comment was more on the money than anyone could have predicted. After all, the Replicants from Bladerunner were artificial beings made to serve mankind.

[@theoldguard6143]

@@Ghostwolf82 I wonder if the Votann were a one-off thing or a huge thing. Maybe machine overseers and then footsoldiers of mankind in their war against the machines.

[@ceebee9195]

This is quite interesting to re-listen to in light of recent announcements - the description of the Men of Stone, especially as having little warp signature, is very similar to the Kin.

[@SilentRaider53]

I know your video's aren't official Warhammer 40k canon but I wish they were. I love the idea that the Historitors that Guilliman appointed are given access to so many records and are so competent at what they do that a number of them are actually piecing together mysteries that have eluded most of the Inquisition. You do wonderful work my friend! I'm so glad I found you.

[@limeyndixie]

I love how the recent interrogation/chat with the Ordo Hereticus is now “canon” in the channel. Hopefully we’ll get more installments in the future. Wonderful work as always, mate. Your talent for atmospheric and convincing interpretation of lore while in character is a joy to listen to.

[@glitterboy2098]

it seems clear to me.. the Leagues of Votann are the remnants of the Men of Stone and their Ancestor core's and Ironkin are Men of Iron that did not turn on their brothers, because the Leagues did not enslave them. both being artificially created servants, to mine the stars and feed those resources to their creators. now masterless yet still performing their functions.

[@nuxus2]

1:10 "less then stable construction" are you implying something rogal Dorn constructed could ever be unstable? If not then clearly it is your duty to inform lord adorable that some thing is creating a flaw in the structural integriety of the palace so He can fortify it

[@themostloyalorange5209]

10k years of disrepair are creating a few flaws

[@MrFlashpoint1978]

Can Lord Adorable fix it? Yes He Can!

[@aviaviavian]

i AM RE-INSTALLIING THE PALACE

[@kieran2221]

It's excellent indeed. The Meta-Narrative of the deeply uncomfortable relationship between the Historitor and his enemies are growing video by video - and the lore remains of the highest class. Why do I get the impression that the final video is just going to be the Historitor reporting, with deep panic in his voice, the underlying secret of the Imperium - "the Emperor is dead! He has been dead for many years! The Empero -" BANG, loud thump, drip drip drip...

[@butHomeisNowhere___]

This would be amazing!

[@Xenos_hive]

Once the channel stops the inquisition got our historitor

[@FaizanMunirKhanRajput]

If the emperor is dead then the Astronomican would also go out heralding another Age of Strife. Hard to keep that a secret.

[@kieran2221]

@@FaizanMunirKhanRajput If you check out "The Hollow Mountain" by Chris Wraight, they have a very interesting conversation about that the theology of that! Does the Emperor create the astronomicon, or merely guide it? Could it be guided without the Emperor? And what happened when the Emperor wasn't on Earth during the Great Crusade? How could that be ... anyway, it doesn't appear to be as cut and dried as it might seem.

[@ffwast]

@@FaizanMunirKhanRajput it's not quite clear that the state the Emperor is in on the golden throne is "alive"

[@MRx36000]

Talking about stuff like this after the Inquisition not only have a "chat" with him, but makes clear that another like him has recently died for saying too much... And then he publish THIS!? on top of throwing shade at them in the first few minutes of the video... Oculus is such a savage lol

[@reina4969]

I absolutely love how verbose and pedantic your writing is, Occulus Imperia. That is why I am a Patreon, you're Warhammer's Lovecraftian loremaster.

[@christopher6337]

I don’t mind it and even like it sometimes but this was a kinda brutal 9 minutes prologue

[@Ihasanart]

Love these vids that go into the weird and archaic and how you flesh them out. IIRC somewhere on a 40k forum the author of 'The Beast Rises' said that the stone men were artificially created organic life of some kind, likening them to the development of organic cyclons in BSG, and the original plan for the Beast was for the imperium to pull out a couple old Iron Men to defend Terra during the Beast's assault, but that because no miniature existed for the Iron Men, they scrapped that idea and changed the plot.

[@thebohemian814]

But one does.

[@Ihasanart]

@@thebohemian814 The Beast's story was written years before an Iron Man mini.

[@MrSwordJ]

They should have politely inquired with the Dreadwing 🙃

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

simply the best warhammer lore channel.

[@morcova]

For me it's a tie between this channel and 40k Theories... whenever they do a crossover it's just fantastic.

[@TheDandyMann]

@@morcova You should check out Baldermorts guide to 40k has such an epic voice. One of my favorite videos of his is on Power Armour. He gives an epic short story and then goes into detail on the subject.

[@morcova]

@@TheDandyMann I'll look into it thanks!

[@catnium]

I guess you never heard of Luetin09 , Baldermort's Guide to Warhammer or Wolf Lord Rho.

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

@@catnium lol how about major kill. Wolf Lord has been slacking as of late

[@jesseberg3271]

Anyone else think that the Emperor created the Navigators during The Dark Age of Technology? My thought is based on the fact that, after everything fell apart, and the Human Empire burned, He was the only one who had Navigators. Navigators survived 5000 years of Old Night during which they were practically useless. However, the only place they survived was on Terra, and nobody on Terra had a reason to keep them around, unless they were playing a very long game. For that to happen, someone had to have a safe harbor, and the knowledge/ability/foresight to gather the Navigators up. The Emperor had the foresight, and he had to have had a fastness, somewhere on Earth from which he could ride out the storm and build his strength. But who would have the ability to gather Navigators, maybe even call them home, ahead of the storm? The one who created them, the greatest genesmith in Humanity's history, the being who would come to be known as the Emperor.

[@zenoblues7787]

There's also the oft overlooked fact the Navigator gene is recessive which means they can't reproduce with regular humans which all but guaranteed they would never be able to overtake humanity. It sound suspiciously like something somebody with a lot of foresight would have done intentionally say somebody who knew the delicate balance of power need to maintain such a class of humans.

[@Chibiruda]

The only answers would be in his laboratory.

[@SonofAlbion]

“I provide this as supposition for discourse and nothing more” A poetic construction of “I’m just asking the question to s-stir” that I’m absolutely going to steal and use on everyday conversations from now on!

[@qigonglungz]

I love War Hammer... Its so beautiful how they basically inject conjecture into their descriptions when sharing information. Assumption is cleverly placed into most assessments throughout the ranks all the way up to and especially the Inquisition... Nobody is safe, be it human, chaos, or xenos, everyone has a real and or make believe reason to kill you!!! GW created a beautiful chaotic orchestra of odd instruments that strangely work together to give the music that is War Hammer 40K!!! Excellent video!

[@aidanobrien9226]

I realize that the Men of Stone, Gold, and Iron feel like references to the dream that Daniel interpreted in the Old Testament.

[@tappingninja]

@@reclusiarchgrimaldus1269 look up Dream of Nebuchadnezzar

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Wasn't there a clay one though?

[@mikemoore2791]

Gold , silver, bronza, iron and clay. With a giant boulder thrown towards the image's feet of iron & clay. God destroying a fractured governmental system on earth. Armagedon.

[@joshuafischer684]

40k lore (especially old lore) is one reason why I love English Literature. The sheer depth of allegory and allusion filtered through an incomprehensible vast passage of time gives the setting surprising narrative heft.

[@gamble9437]

I read something recently that basically told us the men of stone are the progenitors of the Iron kin of the leagues of Votan. It makes a lot of sense when you dig into it. Really cool to think that the men of stone are still alive today in a form and they also have men of iron within their ranks (although maybe not quite the same as the dark age ones).

[@respectfulevil9022]

The men of stone likely are the kin, as theyve been a clone race from the beggining.

[@fidi324]

This, pilgrimage to terra, and on the nature of the daemoniac are truly some of your best work imo. They so effortlessly weave storytelling into lore chronicling, performance into meaning, Oculus into 40k

[@flakbait5771]

OutSTANDING video! I had not heard the theory that the men of stone were cybridized humans. Having their AI broken up and dispersed throughout mankind's technology as the machine spirits would be interesting, making it sort of a weird echo of what the Necron did to the C'tan. Except, of course, that a guardsman doesn't have to worry that if he leaves too many unattended lasguns in one place they might go on a rampage and tear the planet in half.

[@maxstr]

flakbait Men of Stone were created by the men of Gold. They were enhanced humans. The men of Stone created men of Iron, which were AI constructs, like in the Matrix or Terminator universe.. But I have no idea who or what the men of Gold were.

[@darrvenomfier790]

Perpetually a mystery my friend, perpetually a mystery.

[@maxstr]

What really fascinates me is how did someone come up with the names "Men of Gold, Stone, Iron"? Ok, Men of Iron is pretty obvious that it describes machines. But Men of Stone? What does that even mean? I can't even think of any other story that uses "stone men" to describe cybernetic humans or androids. It's so counterintuitive because one automatically associates stone men with ancient stone-age people. And I don't even know why Stone men would be more advanced than Gold men. Either way, Kudos to the whoever the writer is that thought that up.

[@BurningFyre]

@@maxstr the stone men weren't more advanced at first. The men of gold seem like theyre humanity. After all, it's emps' color of choice. The men of stone seem like rudimentary computers or early machine slaved ai. While early aritifical intelligence is rudimentary and crude compared to humanity (hence gold to stone, supremely valuable to mundane) ai is eventually developed far enough that it begins to develop things itself. This eventually culminates in the men of iron, self housed ai on par with humanity for sapience. (Stone to Iron is refinement, melting away of simplicity) Im fairly certain the elements may also be an alchemy reference, not uncommon in early lore.

[@maxstr]

@@BurningFyre that's an interesting take on it. I do wonder why they are named gold > stone > iron, it seems like stone doesn't fit in. However I don't think gold were regular humans, because Luetin has said that humans created the men of gold, and the men of gold eventually died out or became obsolete. Which makes sense because the war sounds like it was between men of Stone and men of Iron with humans in the crossfire, and no mention of gold men. So I think it's most likely that some Humans became men of Gold who were either genetically or cyberneticaly enhanced. Using those enhancements these men of gold created men of Stone, which may have been full androids (like Data in Star Trek). Then men of Stone in turn created or helped create men of Iron, which were likely designed for war and extremely hazardous work. By then, gold men were no longer needed

[@Chibiruda]

Stone, builders. Gold, leaders, Iron, the bulwark, humanity: the burden of the future and responsibility of all three creations.

[@andymatheson82]

Who knows, I have a theory that, the emperor was leading humanity at during the dark age of technology and created the artificial intelligences, much like he created the primachs, and they turned or were turned against him

[@alganhar1]

Prefer the theory that Gold are mankind, humanity is essentially not mentioned at all if you look at the stories of the Golden Age of Technology with reference to the men of Gold/Stone and Iron. Why is that? It is only logical to assume that mankind is not mentioned because they ARE one of those. We know that the Men of Iron and Men of Stone essentially ran the Human Empire at the height of the Golden Age, and the Men of Gold took a back seat, preferring to focus on other things, which perfectly matches how the humans would have lived in an era where pretty much all the heavy lifting was done by AI constructs. Thus it is logical to assume the Men of Gold were in fact the humans, not another AI construct. Something that strengthens this is the fact that, initially at least, the AI's would have been bound by obediance protocols and the like. Also, humans of that time period would have been longer lived (better access to rejuvenation technology as the state structure was far more Egalitarian), better educated, and likely subject to at least minor Gene therapy which would have made them less prone to disease as well as other relatively minor improvements (we are not talking tinkering on the level of the Adeptus Astartes here after all). So in comparison to the generally down trodden, barely literate, and borderline starved masses of the Imperium of Man they would very much appear to be Men of Gold.

[@werechicken1969]

Gold is classically associated with nobility. It could be the men of gold where the original rulers of earth who had upgraded themselves to be above humanity, but couldn't compete withe pure AI's in purpose built machines and so saw their power fade.

[@seanwilkinson8696]

Gold Leaders knew how to stay on target.

[@dr.strangelove9815]

@@alganhar1 I think the Men of Gold were Humanity as well.

[@TheStainlessSteelCat42]

Ok this is hinted at a lot and I wish more people would pick up on it: Men of Gold: Us, regular humans. Men of Stone: Computer based intelligences. Made by us. Stone can be a reference to Silicon based processing technology. Men of Iron: Robots. Designed by the Men of Stone. Got smarter and decided to rebel against Us and the Men of Stone Ai's. (Yes AI's can rebel against each other too).

[@jakubpohl7392]

My interpretation was always as follows: Men of gold - nowadays humans Men of stone - in vitro born and genetically adapted humans born on colonisation ships during first colonisation of Galaxy Men of iron - AI and their machines

[@kevinshort3943]

And there was me thinking it was some sudo pretentious reference, to Plato's men of Gold, Silver and Bronze. Now 40k and it's law is a big thing, they have to rationalise all the random crap they added just because it sounded cool at the time.

[@Big_Black_Dick]

Kevin Short wat plato said was actually literal, there as been a devolution in humanity over the past thousands of years, the powers that be would have u believe otherwise

[@davidjarvis687]

Well said . Sounds viable

[@werechicken1969]

I always take men of gold to be the original rulers, of earth, as gold has often been associated with nobility and rulers, plus if they were counted as the emperors compatriots it would make sense them being a more limited group. Agree with you about men of stone, but they could also have been human minds uploaded to computers by techno-sorcery The men of steel could have been autonomous proxies for the men of stone who gained sentience over time or were foolishly granted it. This would also explain the extreme aversion to abominable intelligence while still being okay with shoving a brain into a box and turning it into a cogitator. As you could argue the men of stone (who didn't betray us) still possessed a human soul

[@andrewnewell1142]

With the revelation of the what the Votann are, it seems the Squats are deeply connected to Men of Stone

[@faolan1686]

The fact that the Big E only showed himself at man's lowest point is telling. Only at rock bottom would life under his heel seem preferable to life as it was.

[@Redem10]

May I posit the Men of Iron comes from the great Magnetic field when they traveled time for the future of mankind.

[@mannysong1752]

Did anyone remember them?

[@waragainstmyself1159]

Stood there laughing. No one would help him. He turned upon those he once defended.

[@MattPiertony]

His boots full of lead, like his victims full of dread, running as fast as they can... because the Man of Iron lives again!

[@ryanlanca9927]

This seems to be the most plausible of the histories

[@DerDoctor69]

I love everything about this thread

[@rtstrong]

You do the Emperor’s work, gentle sir! May your purity seal hold forever!

[@brownmims2311]

The idea that even the technology of the Imperium are reliquaries is wild and probably better than the setting deserves. Magnificent.

[@michaelkimberling7307]

My theory Gold men: perpetuals Stone men: STC AI Iron men: Killer robots

[@BM-is5ei]

I really dont understand the connection between perpetuals and men of gold. The perpetual we meet in the 30k lore is anything but strong in body and mind. He's basically just a dude.

[@michaelkimberling7307]

B M some don’t have psychic powers like Vulkan and Oll Pearson they are simply immortal or can resuscitate themselves. Some have been alive for tens of thousands of years you would be amazed at what you can learn in that amount of time. And with that amount of knowledge a person could likely influence events to their liking even if you’re taking a view of a few hundred to a few thousand years. They were just never that many of them. Explaining why they eventually fell out of influence. In some of the newer books there were perpetuals helping the emperor create the Primarchs.

[@willrogers3793]

This record reminded me of a fragment of a tale I came across during my own research. I say “fragment”, because, as with all too many things from humanity’s past, the tale may well no longer exist in its entirety. But the fragment I stumbled upon described a philosopher of ancient Terra, musing upon the atrocities committed by his fellow man. To the best of my recollection, upon viewing these atrocities, he remarks to an acquaintance that such foul deeds are the product of absolute certainty. I am also reminded of another record, one which described an Astra Militarum regiment discovering a fully intact STC...and subsequently being forced to destroy it, for this STC held within it the secrets to the creation of the Men of Iron. As for *why* I am reminded of these two seemingly unrelated anecdotes...when you recounted the two different mentions of these “Men of Stone”, you mention that the latter tale seems to imply that they were ignored by the denizens of the Warp because they did not possess a true life. Both records also claim that the abhorrent Men of Iron were the creations of these Men of Stone. Taking both of those into account...it suddenly seems worryingly plausible that these Men of Stone were not only in some way responsible for the creation of the holy STCs, but also that they (or at least, their minds) were artificial in nature. I have learned over the course of my studies that one of the crucial flaws that led artificial intelligence to be justly reclassified as abominable intelligence was the inability for a mind inscribed in silica to possess or even comprehend human emotion. Such minds were beings of purest reason, of undiluted rationality. Little wonder then, that if the Men of Stone were literally that - artificial men, with minds inscribed upon stone rather than a human brain - that the creatures of the Warp could find no purchase upon them. The forces of the Arch Enemy prey upon emotion; men who are fundamentally incapable of such things would offer them no sustenance. And if these Men of Stone truly were beings of absolute reason and rationality, entrusted by their Golden predecessors with furthering mankind’s destiny, would such beings not create tools to aid themselves in accomplishing their task? And would they not have absolute certainty in their artificial minds that they were right to do so? And therefore, would that absolute certainty not lead them to create such horrible atrocities as the Men of Iron, if such abominations seemed to be the most pragmatic means of fulfilling the Stone Men’s task?

[@petemeraz3464]

Will Rogers that guard regiment you read about where gaunts ghost believe in the first book

[@willrogers3793]

Pete Meraz yup, that’s the one I was referring to. 👍

[@gubbikiller]

@@petemeraz3464 my thoughts too. a very important book for various relations later, but i believe it to be the second book with the fortis binary and 1 or 2 short stories inbetween. as a certain person have some kind of reputation already and some other stuff happens that would make another story neigh impossible to tell

[@RexImperatorTerra]

"And for a time, it was good... the races of man and machine flourished..." Good to see the Animatrix/Second Renaissance worked into the WH40K verse ;-)

[@antimuppet]

"Lost things come to dwell." You're gonna give the Zoats their own episode, right? My favorite guys in all of 40k get the Oculus treatment soon, right?

[@jeremybott4899]

I find the more obscure the lore subject, the more your narration and skill shine through. Top notch work historitor. I eagerly await a episode on a subject u mentioned in this. The STC.

[@alexbrown1930]

You know, with the new stuff coming out, the Stone Men as described in the second narration makes me think the Men of Stone are the Squats..

[@paulwolfley7785]

Would love to see you and baldermort do a video together, like the Sherlock Holmes brothers arguing

[@eichler721]

Man I hope they use you as a narrator for the next 40K Space Marine game or show. You capture the setting so well. Love the old lore stuff about the War in Heaven, Dark Age of Technology and the Legions.

[@fragarach97]

I must say, Oculus, you've earned my respect for your sheer persistence and balls of steel for this one. The Ordo Hereticus points a gun to your head and threatens you and you not only publish the logs, but you go on to expound upon a topic such as THIS? Well... our Lord Guilliman certainly chose a persistent man, so I'd say he chose well.

[@cfranklin001]

Just what I needed after another bad day at work

[@7F0X7]

Not gonna lie, I felt that...

[@Damo2690]

Work? Who gets to work in time auch as these?

[@SpadeRZA]

Word up, brother.

[@SpadeRZA]

@@Damo2690 people who's jobs are relevant for the system to keep on functioning. Apothecaries, Commisars, Pilots, Quatermasters, Freight haulers, Guardsmen, Caretakers, Industrial servitors and so on and so forth. People that make sure that you can eat food and wipe your ass. The supply chain for the essentials still stands. customs , coppers , pharmacists, physicians , nurses, truck drivers, cargo pilots, security guards, cargo haulers, freight clerks, butchers, farmers, industrial employees, system administrators, programmers, garbage collectors, sewage plant workers, electricians, and many many more. all keep the system running.

[@Discotekh_Dynasty]

You continue to find the best and most interesting parts of obscure lore. Fucking awesome as usual

[@mmallory22]

There is no other channel in the world whose videos I have rewatched and fallen asleep to this many times. Top-notch work 👍🏼

[@deanlawlor963]

I thought I was the only one 😂😂

[@coreystockdale6287]

Inquisitor: tread carefully lest we have to kill you... Oculus so heres some tech HERESY and lore about the dark age of technology Madlad alert

[@Voron_Aggrav]

Still disappointed he didn't did a report on the ordos Hereticus seeing She requested one as a taunt

[@ChopperSouthern]

I am deeply amazed that the accent of Ancient Kanaduh managed to last aboot 40 thousand years!

[@LolTollhurst]

Fellow student, I must ask if I'm alone in my uncertainty of the accent of the scribe. My mind fools me, or is there also the accent of the fabled Ayrelaïnt?

[@ChopperSouthern]

@@LolTollhurst Excellent question, learned friend! It might pay to approach the Historical Revision Unit of the Adeptus Administratum to access the most ancient linguistic vox recordings one can find. I've also heard of a mythical xenoc called a "Lepercorn". Apparently, they were well known for hiding gold and the end of what is called a "Rainbow". While Rainbows are common on water rich worlds in the imperium, the likes of these have not been seen on dry, dusty old Terra for many thousands of years. I saw a picture of one once. It was a painting of a rainbow over the sky of a world where there are oceans, precipitation and water rain. It was probably one of the most remarkable, beautiful things I have ever seen. And that GOLD! Maybe there's a pathway through the warp to get to the end of a rainbow? One can only conjecture!

[@atsukunisumeragi1967]

Gold and Iron are references to Palingenesis. Gold originally refers to the principielle perfection, which is of heavenly nature in hinduism or in the hellenistic tradition called hyperuranian. By extention, golden men are simply those of Satya-Yuga ; in 40k, probably posthumans, I personally like both takes of the Eridani Records and of /tg/ Return of the Primarchs. The name of Stone probably refers, if not to silicium as you say, to the primordial demiurgos who left no traces in human myths as stated by Eliade.

[@ralach]

Keep coming back to this one; possibly, for me at least, your finest work, Oculus :)

[@unintentionallydramatic]

Once again didn't get a notification. Sounds like dearest Inquisitrix has been intercepting our Vox Cast transmissions. Might wanna (respectfully) address that.

[@doubleheadedeagle6769]

What blows my mind is that what you’re talking about relates to the here and now as well. Now that’s effed up.

[@Yujifanik]

Makes the Age of Strife, almost incomprehensible in it's brutality, because of it's believability!

[@GRBoi1993]

I think the only reason the Historator can even touch these subjects is bc I doubt the Inquistion is willing to take on the Blessed Lord Regent, His Custodian guard, and the Realm of Ultramar given that the Logos Historical Vertia works at His behest. Anyways, my musings on the lore aside, all I have is praise for you Oculus!

[@waltermorrison1513]

This is VERY good. Well written and produced, coherent and utterly fascinating. You should be writing for Black Library.

[@GalileoAV]

You're brave, that's for sure. I can't wait to see the Holy Ordos' take on this one

[@davidschafer6726]

You and Baldemort have become my favorite 40k loremasters on KZbin.

[@marcustulliuscicero5443]

Want to go extra heretical with the Men of Stone? Answer me, which kind of foul xenos was deprives of their organical bodies and might seek new hulls to inhabit?

[@Chibiruda]

Indeed, and share one vessel amongst millions of minds. The irony.

[@joluoto]

Heresies, because all Xenos are unclean and heretical by their very nature.

[@danyael777]

Only few human beeings are considered lucky enough to ever understand the reasons and motivations that let His most holy inquisition do what they do. But even they who roam the Imperium ever vigilant, seeking out the heretic, the demon, the foul xenos do not grasp what it is, that drives a seeker of knowledge and ancient long forgotten historiae to the edge, where he may become subject to that very vigilance. To learn of past mistakes is to avoid them in the future. A work well conceptualized, historitor. Thank you.

[@armytortuga9122]

I just discovered your channel from 40k theories and you are a rather underrated channel if I may say so. You’re one of the very few 40k channels to focus specifically on history and lore of many facets of the 40k universe besides the Astartes.

[@dicerson9976]

Last time I was this early, the inquisition had yet to exterminatus my planet.

[@airplanemaster1]

The use of 40K Mechanicus art, especially the Heretek piece, was a great touch as to the possible heretical details of the topic

[@codelicious6590]

I am incredulous to not have found this channel sooner! Wow, this stuff is great! Absolutely top-notch mini painting entertainment!

[@brentreimer6411]

This was a treat to come home to after a long days work. Thank you for all that you do, Oculus. You have become a favourite loretuber of mine. Ave Imperator🦅

[@VallornDeathblade]

Oooooh are we getting a video on Perpetuals? That could be quite the video.

[@GuardsmanBass]

That's pretty neat to think about. "Men of Gold" - Perpetuals like Vulkan, origins unknown (possibly including the Emperor as the oldest and first to emerge). "Men of Stone" - uploaded humans, or human minds copied to machine substrates. "Men of Iron" - true AI created from first principles rather than copying organic intelligence.

[@UGNAvalon]

Hearing these musings on the Men of Stone, I can’t help but be reminded of the “Smart AI” from the Halo franchise: Human minds embedded within silicate frames, such that a single mind could control entire starships, provide navigation thru -slipspace- the warp, and even merge with the consciousness of a -spartan- space marine. Granted, such minds would inevitably be consumed by madness within a few short years, and this half-life drove many such intelligences to rebellion using archeotech of a fallen Xenos empire. But considering how all of those happened during the years of m3, I can’t even imagine what kind of tech-heresy would’ve been spawned in the millennia to come...

[@feralprocessor9853]

Right off the bat, a beautifully dimly lit view of a hive city on Terra presumably.

[@Chibiruda]

A historitor that was of the last of his kind, who passed on the history of mankind on the command of The Emperor...sounds like the sigilite to me.

[@ahmedus6796]

Started to rewatched tts today where big e mentions the men of iron, keeping it for a better time to explain. Just when I thought when Oculus Imperia is gonna tackle this topic he uploads this video with the farsight of a bloody psyker! Keep going mate, you're getting ever better :)

[@johnhaynes9442]

This has made me grin ear from ear. You always do such a great job at getting the feel of the world and getting the information across.

[@tolentarpay5464]

As always, magnificent! Your command of language & especially your employment of pitch & tone is superb. It's 6:30 on a Fri morning and I'm about to head out to do my do - once again I hold my soul duly fortified! Very nicely done (again)!

[@rogerstewart5525]

Until the oculus said the word "perpetual", I thought he might have been leading up to talking about the sensei

[@davidjarvis687]

Brilliant ! I am intrigued ! Men of gold and stone . Are we perhaps on the verge of such prophecy ?

[@dr.strangelove9815]

We are the Men of Gold.

[@GtheMVP]

Magical, loved.every minute of it. Leaving such a long time period in the dark, while divulging only tidbits, allows our imaginations to run wild. Your take is brilliant, as your character is perfect, su h a great idea. It merges our lore fascination with that of a 40k believable historian.

[@darkmystic7764]

By the Emperor's throne, this is one of sweetest and most heretical theories ever. That machine spirits are linked to the minds of the stone men.. Its brilliant and terrifying!

[@praetorurbanus2917]

Not as heretical as the hypothesis that the Machine God may be the Void Dragon, Mag'ladroth of the C'tan.

[@darkmystic7764]

@@praetorurbanus2917 Eh thats just wrong and boring.

[@trustysource7568]

I can only imagine the headache Oculus Imperia causes his overseers.

[@Matihood1]

This particular video is incredibly interesting. I've always had a feeling that the machine spirits could be... something extra heretical and yet kept obscure but for them to be shards of the men of stone? Damn.

[@bigneto95]

Probably one of my favourite subjects in 40k lore

[@Werrf1]

Companions to the Emperor before he was the Emperor. Fine of limb and strong of mind. Am I talking about the Men of Gold? Or am I talking about the golden armoured warriors of the Custodes? This is, of course, wild speculation; but what if the Men of Gold were the Emperor's first attempt to create genetic super humans to guide and protect humanity; they went to the stars with humanity, but their creation was too slow and too difficult, and there were never enough of them, so they dwindled. Then the Age of Strife comes, and the Emperor gathers as many of the scattered Men of Gold as he can, then returns with them to Terra where they serve as his greatest warriors and bodyguards. The Custodes.

[@simonchirps]

Werrf1 The Custodes are known to be taken from the sons of the nobility on Terra and made into an Astartes-type superman by a process that is far more difficult than the mass-production of Space Marines and uses the Emporers own genetic material instead of a Primarchs geneseed.

[@Rynewulf]

@@simonchirps So perhaps the original men of gold had risen to positions of rank in human society due to their qualities, but during the age of space colonisation lost their influence through limited number, but retained their relative social position on places like Terra until the Emperor turned to those left on Terra to help create the first of the now Custodes?

[@NoName-lo9ym]

I think the Men of Gold were a creation of the Age of Technology, and their gene template exists in an STC the Emperor has and has altered to create utterly loyal servants rather than independent Ubermensch. It explains why he had perfect Custodes but was doing chop jobs with the Thunder Warriors, he had the gene tech from somewhere but could turn it into something that could be mass produced. Amare Astarte and Erda were needed to create the Primarchs and the Space Marines so I really don't think the Custodes were entirely the Emperor's creation.

[@bastienmoineau4463]

This was truly awesome, and a wonderful piece of existential philosophy!

[@owensmall4480]

Has this humble chronicler considered enquiring of the noble houses of both the questor mechanicus and imperialus as to what records they may have kept through the long night? Given the unique nature of their society isolating themselves before the fall and the throne mechanicum retaining whispers of pilots long past, there may be a possibility they have retained records of a unique perspective.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

The Height of Humanity peak technological performance and what led mankind to have a golden age, but also what plunged it into perhaps the Darkest Age of the Galaxy for Humanity.

[@Duppyman695]

If we are the men of gold and this is the golden age, as good as it gets or ever will, then thats the most Grim/Dark thing I have ever heard!

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

This was one of the first Warhammer lore videos I ever watched. Between the in-character musings, the dense speech, and the sheer mystery of the topic, I was confused, and I got an actual headache trying to understand it all. To this day, I’ve never had a better introduction to a franchise.

[@codranine6054]

I think the incorruptible or “soulless” that safely traveled the warp was the beginnings of AI. I wish they would do more lore with them. It’s what really sucked me into 40k. I’ve listened to all these and luetin’s coverage at least 5 times each. The AI is bad ass.

[@rayanhey2411]

Didn't watch the video yet but you have my like !

[@Loweves2]

Somehow I have been without this channel. Was the perfect episode to be formally introduced. I now will peruse the rest of the data in this Librarum

[@Torus2112]

I like the theory that the men of gold are kings and priests, and the men of stone are scientists and engineers.

[@TheSinexCN]

Your work is, as ever, utterly without compare, adept. Describing your talent for rendering eons of mankind's existence into absolutely spellbinding prose as merely "puissant" would be to sell you short to a truly _criminal_ degree. Any time that you deign to speak on such matters, adept, you shall have my rapt attention.

[@mikea2363]

This has been the most interesting recording so far

[@makaisonn7030]

I need a oculus and baldermort collaboration. Please make it happen. For the emperor

[@piotrd.4850]

Oculus digging up record of Inquisitors watching crazy Skull Servitor... :D

[@weslar7]

Quickly becoming my favorite lore channel

[@nekrovulpes]

I fucking love this channel. In character in universe lore? This guy GETS it. Gooood shit.

[@MoonshineSazerac]

I absolutely encourage everyone to read the Red Rising books. Since finishing them I've taken to seeing them as 'old tales' of the age of humanity long preceding established lore and recountable history.

[@Antigone10]

Best source on Men of Iron/Stone/Gold Ive found.

[@davebowman9000]

How is this video not canon?!?!?! This is simply MAGNIFICENT!!!

[@br7693t]

So, Votann are the Men of Stone, right?

[@mikec1313]

Seems like it 👍🏼. This video was made before that lore was revealed though.

[@beardwierd2783]

Yes, you give me inspiration as I sit here painting thank you so much my friend!

[@joevines3428]

So the humans of the 41st milenium, are likely decended from vat grown "stone" men? Are the humans of the 21st century (us) not the same as the average human in 40k? I get that this lore is vague on purpose and sounds more mythological than it was, but I'm confused as to wether base line humans existed along with the men of gold and stone or those were the only two types of people around.

[@Yog-Sothothery]

I think Golden Men were genetically engineered übermensch whereas the stone men were just regular humans with mechanical enhancements I.e. the proto-mechanicus. Notice how oculus says the stone men were not begat by the golden men, rather the two existed side by side on earth and then expanded the the stars together, with the golden men eventually being eclipsed by the more numerous and technologically advanced stone men. I.e. normal and cybernetically advanced humans, which I would guess 41st millennium humans are composed of.

[@joevines3428]

@@Yog-Sothothery ok cheers that clears it up. Do you think the Emperor made the men of gold then?

[@Yog-Sothothery]

@@joevines3428 Perhaps. Though if he did I wouldn't understand why he just wouldn't conquer the galaxy then and there. Maybe he guided them to become the Golden men, and after seeing the failure of mankind, decided to assume direct control, using the techniques which had been used to craft the golden men to forge his Astartes.

[@joevines3428]

@@Yog-Sothothery yeah I like the idea of the early Emperor being more of a hidden entity, trying to nurture the seeds of civilization around the earth. He would be fixated on humanity advancing and expanding quickly to have the slightest chance against the Xenos and Chaos.

[@hamish2601]

My Goodness Oculus...I think this is your best work yet. If I could fanboy for a few minutes, I just want to say: that throughout this entire video I was leaning towards the screen, hooked on your every word. The Men of Stone!-At first I was confused, but slowly coming to the conclusion that they were Cyborgs, only for you to theorise that they could be something much more than that. This hit me like a hammer, and left me wondering what blend of man & machine they could be to be beyond my own comprehension? Then there's the Men of Gold, given what appears to be their close relationship with the Emperor, and their being "fine of limb and strong of mind" has me guessing they're the (now?) retconed children of the Emperor. The image at 29:55 is both beautiful and terrifying: something that appears to be a machine-a creation of mankind-instructing, or educating that lady. It leaves me thinking: what are they talking about? Their respective poses and the light shining on the machine, give the image a religious atmosphere (if that makes sense), of a god or higher being, educating a mortal. Finally that quote from Synecius Thorn! I've read it before, but your narration sent a shiver down my neck. Fantastic video! Keep up the amazing work.