How To Cut Your Bills By £10,000 With Heat Pumps.

[@funzo1983]

Incredibly designed. Shame there’s not more engineers like you in the country. Industry is so behind. Great work!

[@RickyWeller-ig7zm]

Love all your videos you do. Relatively new to the renewables world. Embarrassing the fact that with correctly designed installations older properties are now having heat pumps installed. Keep posting 👌

[@kbunboxing938]

Very impressive install. My eyes always light up when I see you have posted a new video, keep em coming.

[@GlynHudson]

What an epic installation! Really enjoyed watching the video. Clever idea for the towel rail circuit. The carbon savings on this system compared to oil will be massive! This is exactly the sort of property that many people claim a heat pump would never work.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yep - one of those impossible with heat pumps. Thanks Glyn for kind words

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

Hi Glyn, We watched both of your HP installations, which inspired us to source a system for ourselves. Fortunately, we came across Szymon and quickly recognized his dedication-he truly puts 110% into the job! Maria, always smiling, keeping everything neat and tidy. Hopefully, we can provide an update at some point when we gather some useful data and when the solar inverters are replaced.

[@GlynHudson]

@@MalcolmSkerrett That's fantastic! Amazing to hear that my little heat pump played a small part in all of this! You did well to find Szymon, he's not your average HP installer! Your battery system sounds fascinating, I've been following Dala's battery emulator project using EV batteries with hybrid inverters, I would love to put together a system like this in the future. I worked with Dala to help improve the CAN bridge used for Leaf/e-Nv200 battery upgrades when I upgraded the battery in my EV van. He's a very clever guy. But I guess if you're using Victron kit, you don't need the battery emulator integration.

[@Wayfarer-Sailing]

Wonderful - I'm very grateful that you are willing to share your work with the YT-watching community. Always a pleasure to click on one of your videos.

[@FloweringElbow]

Epic install. Like the idea of the plant room being part of a bakery 😊 thanks for sharing.

[@richardlphillips]

Absolute work of art sir 🙌🏼👏🏼😎

[@mathijs7309]

What a system! I’m not an engineer but it’s so fun to watch you design stuff like this. Keep up the good work. Could you make a video about the most optimal/energy efficient settings of the Arotherm plus control unit some day?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Video about controls is definitely coming as soon as many people struggle with them

[@electraatom]

A couple of years ago you posted a superb video on how to wire the wiring centre for underfloor heating. It was the best and most understandable video I've seen on this subject. The boiler flap opened & hit you on the head. Yes, that one. Any chance you can repost this. It helped me out massively. Thanks for your great & entertaining videos keep up the good work!

[@andyhello23]

One would assume the owners are confident in your ability to replace the previous system Would of been great to see a series of videos on this project detailing it, but this was fascinating in off itself Some project you had there, and i find it interesting that such owners are confident you could replace there previous system with your new system They must have alot of confidence in its ability to do it. 1/4 million litres of heating oil, thats is some crazy amount over 2 decades. I like the way you concentrate on making it as simple as possible, and removing as many single point failing points as you can.

[@hiltonshaw5528]

Absolutely fantastic job and fantastic video! Keep being awesome mate

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thank you Hilton!

[@pf888]

Once again the quality of the design and workmanship is exemplary, great recycling of EV batteries for home storage, too.

[@tehsimo]

Wild setup, that is one crazy power bank!

[@scottvirgogp]

Incredible work, well captured - thanks for sharing!

[@LaurieR100]

True professional, a pleasure to watch

[@marcozorzi6770]

Such a great project! 🔝 well done! 👏🏼 looking forward to the follow up video.

[@keyserxx]

Top job, love it. I'm sold on heats pumps, although it may be possible, I currently live in a 1960s flat with garden (slightly smaller than this one ;)) there may be more of an issue around noise and getting planning permission etc. I will be looking into at some point in the next 5-10 years and as I would like to move off gas.

[@edwyncorteen1527]

Fabulous job! I was very surprised to see you did not use a ground source heat pump? They have an enormous lawn that would have looked just the same after installation.

[@rosco4659]

Every time I am doing some plumbing in the house this channel seems to pop up in my feed. Greta video thanks.

[@johndevlin980]

Brilliant work Simon, well explained, love your videos 👍

[@elringoRS6]

No wonder no new videos for a while, this must have kept you busy for ages! (still want to see a Vaillant hybrid one).

[@UrbanPlumbers]

yeah - this took us 3 weeks

[@johntisbury]

Impressive design and installation. Great to see a sensible solution got replacing the old oil boiler in a large home.

[@deanchapple1]

Hands down one of the nicest installs I’ve seen. Fair play mate.

[@denisbassom172]

That must have taken some planning! Impressive job.

[@everseenaguysaygoodbyetoashoe]

Lovely stuff! Very ingenious to reuse the cylinder.

[@imnothere220]

Painting the plant-room! I love this guy. Great to see K3 rads in an actual video working up well at 30 degrees and the actual electricity draw. Super detail. Always however, creates the disappointment there is simply no way I can access someone expert enough to do this in Ireland. I've people recommend 2 x 12 arotherm for a 16kw heat loss property and tell me you don't run pipes underground. I'm absolutely sick of trying to get anything done in Ireland that isn't cowboy level or just random luck as to how it works out.

[@CaptainProton1]

Isn't Ireland full of Dr's and Engineers these days with the new arrivals. Surely they can do it

[@imnothere220]

@CaptainProton1 oh right. I must be mistaken

[@joncoke8208]

That sir is pure plumbing poetry

[@aryanelectrical]

Great installation, really neat clever work 👌🏽

[@asabriggs6426]

That's the biggest dough proving room I've seen (it is the only one I've seen). I think it would be handy for fermenting batches of beer too! Nice install, and interested to see how it performs over the winter (and what peak heating demand is).

[@AdamCiernicki]

Awesome system, looks like this is the way for larger properties in future considering issues with grid connections of PV beyond 5kw. All we need now is for battery prices to keep falling - and boys and girls, solid state modules are coming in 2027! :P

[@numerouno6887]

Can you do a video on how to install the open energy monitor? I noticed that you've installed the OEM in some of your videos. This will be very helpful

[@gr328]

Nice, simple job for a spare Friday ;-)

[@stixstonesinvestors5413]

Unbelievable set up syzmon. Another absolute banger of a video. Your vids are making a huge difference in the industry and opening peoples eyes to what is achievable. You’re leading the way with this. Heat pumps are the future. 💯

[@simonyapp]

I so enjoyed this, such a clearly explained and well made video showing such good workmanship. Inspires me to get more than 4.8 COP out of our new build heat pump and to crack on with the valiant battery storage system. Thanks

[@CL-yp1bs]

4.8 COP for heating? I dont know that that is feasible even with the most efficient mini splits..

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@CL-yp1bs mine runs at scops of 5.0 and 12 of my systems that are on open energy monitoring average scops of 4.7

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@CL-yp1bs also that’s combined CH and DHW - CH alone on mine runs well over 5.5.

[@CL-yp1bs]

@@UrbanPlumbers Is this because its using water instead of air? I've done alot of research on heat pumps for my home but they were mitsubishi and gree units that used air only. Because of the numbers I never pulled the trigger on one. My price for electricity is $0.10/kwh off peak and $0.28/kwh from 5pm to 9pm (on peak) - climate is similar to alot of england.. I live in the southern part of oregon usa. Never gets below 30f for very long... so pretty mild climate.

[@Felix-st2ue]

​@CL-yp1bs Probably more depending on the refrigerant being used. As far as I know the US is one generation behind on that. As to the extra costs, technically they shouldn't be much more than a regular AC. In the end it's the same with just a bit of logic and a valve to reverse the cycle. And always bear in mind that most current installs are grossly oversized. So I good install shouldn't be based on what is currently installed.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Absolutely brilliant video! Thanks for documenting and sharing! 😀

[@BristolHeatPumps]

Brilliant work as usual mate!

[@yngndrw.]

Fantastic project. I'd love to know your thoughts about using stored thermal energy in large outdoor water tanks (insulated of course) vs the batteries for a larger project such as this. Obviously, some amount of battery storage has the advantage of running the rest of the equipment within the property, but I'm wondering if thermal storage would be cheaper for the bulk as large water tanks are very cheap. You can still do all of the same things to reduce costs: pump excess solar or off-peak energy into the storage. Off the top of my head, the main downsides would be: - Space (I think I calculated 20,000l last time I looked for myself, so on this property, it would be a lot of physical space) - Requiring a higher storage temperature But I'm thinking that balances against the electrical conversion losses for batteries and the capital costs of such a large battery array while still allowing you to benefit from cheaper energy rates or excess solar.

[@plinble]

The airflow you need to move enough air to get the heat gain from the heat pumps can be worked out. Humidity comes into it as well, and any defrost cycles.

[@JimLarsson-t8z]

Brilliant Simon! Well done

[@PeterOverthrow]

Brilliant example of what can be done.

[@dazmc79]

How do 2 x 12kw heat pumps replace a 70kw oil boiler ? Did the property have insulation upgrades (internal wall, loft, floor etc )

[@jasoncork9661]

Heat pumps generally run 24/7 so less power over a longer time instead of a boiler constantly switching on and off.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It wasn’t sized correctly - 95% of boilers are 4 times the size required. Just shows how poor the industry is.

[@stevec7272]

gorgeous install

[@barrieshepherd7694]

Great install and video - so much copper in the original install!

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

The previous CH upgrade in 1998 was in 2.5" maluable iron pipework, that was taken out and many bundles (1,500m) of copper put in to distribute over 12 zones. Back then the gauge of the copper pipe was thicker than today.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@MalcolmSkerrett I hope they flashed the old system out when they replaced it with copper , there must have been a load of sludge accumulated over the years.

[@ciaranclose192]

Brilliant video 👍keep them coming

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks 👍

[@sygad1]

That is a monster of an install, would love to know more about the other technology onsite

[@lemmykilmister450]

You're right there's a number of caveats. Putting break even aside, the vast majority don't have the up front costs and aren't planning on staying with that property to make it to break even.

[@noloafingwgas]

I would hope you would increase the value of the property in the process and might recover some of that

[@Buggs_FKU]

@@noloafingwgas increase of value of property is irrelevant for an owner that lives in it for all their lives. Not all property is investment opportunity.

[@imnothere220]

I have similar, but can't get anyone really in Ireland to get into this. Real pain in the hole really.

[@wobby1516]

Interesting that unlike when I installed 40 years ago you use all fittings and not a bending machine. I agree with you I hated AAVs.

[@granteditslifeoutdoors.9194]

It doesn’t have to be all in. We have a 1912 2100sf home with 1977 SlantFin boiler. In the last 5 years we added a 2 ton minisplit to our main floor and this past summer a smaller unit on the second floor. These 2 units are primarily used for cooling, but we are presently heating our home with these heat pumps. The plan is to lessen the boiler use to the extreme cold months and bridge seasons run the mini-splits. New boiler - 15-20k. Two mini splits @$8k. With a Canada carbon tax on running the nat gas boiler and no tax on nuke/hydro electric the math is making sense. PV & battery would be a great addition

[@Bikebros27]

im just getting into the world of heat pumps what course do you know of, or recommend as would like to gain as much knowledge as possible, you knowledge seems second to none

[@glenr6101]

Is there a channel for the owner or more about the pv/battery? Great vid, as always

[@dermotnangle3648]

Excellant presentation. Clearly proving that HeatPumps are well capable of satisfying many application requirements, once the system design is correctly dimensioned. Impressive use of remote siting of Heat Pump using buried insulated pipework.

[@Purebeltersteve]

@@dermotnangle3648 yes they might be capable, but not everyone has 10 acres of land, a stables and 40 solar panels lol

[@TomTomicMic]

Blimey Charlie, it looks better but is more complicated but if it works out okay it will save them money!?!

[@wandawillim-becker7555]

Kochasz wyzwania i perfekcję👋

[@brianmead5102]

Excellent very informative

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Glad you liked it!

[@artemZinn]

Beautiful work! Do you have videos on doing both heating and cooling with radiators and heat pumps like these? I’m trying to understand whether it’s worth going radiators instead of forced air before upgrading to heat pump for either. House still needs ventilation anyway, the only benefit of radiators is silent operation it seems

[@ianskeet]

Excellent video. Cheers.

[@avivscrewvalla]

Great work - nice to see ground mount and roof top solar complimenting an air source heat pump. It’s a shame the owner didn’t invest in Tesla Powerwall 3 - perfectly suited to larger heat pump installations due to its peak load capability of 30kW

[@martinwinlow]

Weren't the re-purposed battery modules in the video old Tesla (Model S?) ones? So, nearly a Powerwall... And it looks like about 200kWh's-worth that I can see...

[@UrbanPlumbers]

can't confrim or deny ;)

[@MrFlyby34]

@@UrbanPlumbers 😄

[@Geyer128]

Why no ground loup heat pump system? This could be a possibility if you have that much area.

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

The 50mm preinsulated pipework was trenched in and made good in two days, ground source would be a full scale landscaping job, a lot of the solar panels were up already, just added a few extra to cope in the winter.

[@AmosMoses777]

My understanding is that as air source has got better ground arrays are falling out of favor. I think most ground source is moving towards bore holes for where that is appropriate.

[@vevenaneathna]

output loss from long pipes is just 1 solar panel. another way to think about it. probably cheaper to install another panel than to keep trying to decrease pipe loss with length/insulation.

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

Good shout, I like the way you're thinking.

[@geoffaries]

I would have installed a hybrid system using a LPG boiler in conjunction with the ASHP. This is a really good example of the complexity of controlling such large domestic heating systems, it's really a commercial installation. The owner will have to hope that Simon, or someone as skilled, is available to maintain it.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Hybrid would be: more expensive to install, more complex, more expensive to service, more expensive to run as can’t be run from solar PV. You would not get a bus grant towards it and your would have to add 20% vat to the installation. Hybrid are really pointless if you know how to design a decent renewable set up. If you don’t - hybrids are still pointless 🤣

[@geoffaries]

You're right that without the grants, the ASHP's would make even less sense. It's a case of people who cant afford a heat pump subsidising those who can afford one, a reverse Robin Hood. A sensiblesolution would have been to just change the boiler and uograde controlsto weather compensation.​@UrbanPlumbers

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@geoffaries Look at the cost of replacing the oil tank (has a leak), and an equivalent oil boiler. From what I can find online, a replacement tank (5000L) is £3K+, and an equivalent oil boiler is about £2.5k. Each of the heat pumps (at least from what I can find online) are about £5k each. Less the grant makes the heat source alone £3k cheaper.

[@geoffaries]

But you then have to add ALL of the extra work to install the ASHP'S, including changing all the radiators. Fwiw I've been a fan, in principle of ASHP'S since the late 1980's, I even set up a company to install them, but without the grants they are not a sensible investment. What irks me is that they're like BEV's, they take money from people who can't afford to give to people who can.

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@geoffaries Changing rads isn't a requirement for a heat pump, it's to change to low-temperature heating that benefits any heat source. Doing so would have paid for themself as well with replacing an oil boiler. So is cost-parity. Not sure how it is taking money from people who can't afford them? You do realise that if grant cost was equal across everyone who pays tax it works out at less than £5 per year for the 3 years the grant is active, added to that, higher earners pay more tax anyway. Also, the grants stimulating the work indirectly add some tax back into the system as well. It's a drop in the ocean compared to other things that have been subsidised for the gas and oil industry, but people don't seem to have a problem with that.

[@justinterested5819]

Are the circulation pumps included in the COP?

[@erik7853]

The batteries are around 5KwH per piece, which makes a total of 1000kWH

[@edc1569]

Seems a little bonkers, you'll never get enough cycles on them to make them pay.

[@DenisUlmer]

@@edc1569 I bet people that managed to own that kind of property managed to calculate for it to pay back.

[@xxwookey]

Looks like Tesla model S/X battery packs. They cost about the same as brand new LFP batteries from Fogstar and probably more than cells direct from China. It's better to keep the NCM packs for use in vehicle conversions IMHO.

[@davidcoates6768]

Do both heat pumps run all the time? Or does one kick in at a lower temperature?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

they automatically swap duty. 2nd one will only really kick in if the temperature drop to around 5c and below.

[@davidcoates6768]

@ wow, that's good that they swap, great installation yet again.

[@normanboyes4983]

Syzmon, well you have surpassed yourself with this one, absolutely epic both the design and installation. Amusing reactions in the comments have also kept me quite entertained too (sadly some real howlers from people in the industry too). Good decision by the homeowner (even without the PV and Batteries). I was just looking at the entry on the OE site (I assume this is Liphook?) and there is no indication of the control strategy and nor did you cover it off in the video. Is it pure weather compensation or room influence? Thank you for sharing.😀👍

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Pure WC only on my installs

[@normanboyes4983]

@ Thanks, I thought so but did not want to ‘assume’.😉

[@trashmail8]

Beautiful. 👌 Love not only the eye for the technical side, but also aesthetics. Painting the plant room really makes it look epic. Living overseas, I wish I could find a local installer which I could trust with this same level of "technical art".

[@RyanSharp-s8m]

Can you give a little detail on the buffer set up, bypass buffer with 54mm connections? Header sized to 0.5m/s and assuming circuits are 0.9/s-1m/s open loop?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

yes you got it pretty much correct. Primary pipework is 50mm not 40mm - made a mistake in the video. Also connections on the buffer are 1"1/4 so there is a reduction there as couldn't find a buffer with 2" connections that would fit in that space. Seems to run nicely if you look at OEM so don't think there is much distortion happening.

[@RyanSharp-s8m]

@ that’s great, I have a few large setups coming up so brushing up on my buffer designing options, how are you achieving your desired stop starts as you’d need a min volume of 666l at 3 start/stops or am I missing something? Do the header pumps operate with the primary pumps to allow it access to the full system volume? Sorry for all the questions, everyday is a school day!🤓😂

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@RyanSharp-s8m, yes, pumps run together (at least one does on the system side). System volume is not an issue as most of the time, one unit runs alone, and this set-up has probably 800l volume. At the moment (mild water), the system doesn't stop (3-6 starts per day for heating!) as it has great modulation due to having 2 units and only 1 running.

[@RyanSharp-s8m]

@ last question, I promise 😄 Are the header pumps all controlled by the HP & not 3rd party stats (or just full WC?)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

yes - no 3rd party controls at all

[@niknikmoore]

Great video as always. I am not a plumber or boiler engineer - I notice that you are not using flux and a gas torch to connect your pipes - when did that change and what is this new connection method called?

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

Pipe crimping, five times quicker than MAP gas torch and solder and not risk of fire working in the loft.

[@njipods]

iv speced that underground pipe. amazing stuff but sooooo expensive!

[@davideyres955]

I hope you didn’t cut too many of those reinforcement bars. Especially if those holes are anywhere near where you are putting anything heavy. It always worries me core drilling through floor. Lovely job though, painting the room was a fantastic touch, the copper looks great on black.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It’s not gonna fall far, is it?

[@tonydaddario4706]

If the HW cylinder is open vent and I assume there are plenty of bathrooms and outlets how is the water pressure around such a huge house?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It’s pumped

[@patrickmarinus3979]

What a project! 😍 Could i please come and work for you to learn these great skills 🎉😊

[@joncepet]

Wilo better than Grundfos for circulation pump?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Not that impressed with Wilo. I don't think I will use Wilo again, they are very very noisy. DAB, on the other hand, seems good.

[@joncepet]

@@UrbanPlumbers Good to know! I will take it in consideration next time I need one. Thank you.

[@DanEVSolar7]

Brilliant video and very informative. That plant room is a work of art! Keep up the great work. 👍

[@lmc7701]

Looks like a great install, congrats. Would however echo other comments on long term economic viability. Would be very interesting to see data for kwh load of heating plant on design conditions day and available solar yield. Also battery soh after 10 years is an unknown and commodity heat pumps like this can and do fail needing expensive repairs by skilled trades and parts. 15years is quite possible but have seen comps / inverter pcb's go sooner. Also would want to avoid the losses of the pre insulated pipe over life cycle of system if at all possible. It adds up. Personally prefer refrigerant split for long runs. Nice job though!

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

The client decided to replace a 24-year-old oil-fired boiler with two heat pumps. The existing oil boiler was outdated, the oil tank had a leak, and oil prices fluctuated between 60p and £1.00 per litre. The property already had a solar and battery storage system that powers the swimming pool in summer. The work completed by Szymon, combined with the BUS grant, matched the cost of purchasing and installing two new 5,000-litre oil tanks, a new boiler, removing the old system, and filling the new tanks with 10,000 litres of oil. Additionally, the client installed new 50mm pre-insulated pipes and upgraded some radiators from K2 to K3 models. As Szymon noted, the original boiler room was located within the house's thermal envelope. While the client had grown accustomed to the firing noise of the old boiler, they are pleased to report that the new system is silent, odor-free, and results in a 25-tonne reduction in CO2 emissions annually.

[@razvanlex]

There is more loss of heat on a refrigerant pipe, they run hotter than water.

[@lmc7701]

Fair comment but I'm not sure that's correct. Would need to check losses to be sure, yes approx 5 to 10k hotter ref discharge temp vs target water flow temp but much smaller surface area of pipe and less thermal mass impacting losses to ground at start up / after shut down. Long pre insulated primary pipe runs can also require a degree or two hotter set point at hx to compensate for pipe losses based on past experience. The true reduction in efficiency is thermal loss + small reduction in cop. Appreciate some clients value aesthetics over optimal efficiency. It looks like a high quality install

[@ianmills5805]

Hi great system and great video one question, would it not work out cheaper to have installed bigger heat pumps and heated large water stores when the sun shines and used that hot water to heat house at night? I have been working in a large 1000m² house here in France that uses 2 x 26 kw heat pumps (I am the electrician on this job) the house has very little insulation, old cast iron rads. The system has a low COP and is very expensive to run

[@UrbanPlumbers]

50kW seems like an awful lot even for a 1000m2 house. To storage energy in water you would need a gigantic store - not feasible really. Might as well go ground source instead

[@ianmills5805]

@@UrbanPlumbers Hi yes it does seem a lot but solid walls single glazed using the old rule of thumb 100w per m² it is under powered? also does hot water, last winter it was using between 1000€ and 1500€ per month of electric the unit doing just heating had a cop of around 2 and the one doing heating and hot water had a cop of about 1.7 house never that warm. The output temp of units is about 55c but the rads only get about 45 to 50c input, the installation is very poor and the pipes where not insulated even for the hot water system, I have another customer with a low temp underfloor heating system and they get a cop of over 5 As to storing energy in hot water not sure but think depending on temp (start and finish) say 25 to 45c you could store a bit under 20kwh per 1000L a tank here is about 1000€ (used a lot here for wood heating) so about 50€ per kwh

[@Felix-st2ue]

​@@ianmills5805It's better to store that energy in a battery. They have become quite cheap and you can't really store that much energy in water by comparison. Plus electricity is way more flexible to use. As to the price, you can get 5 kwh of battery for around 1000€ nowadays.

[@PetrKlus]

Would there be any to get more information about the battery system?

[@areyouashappyaslarry]

How did you determine the air exchange rates to calculate the 24kW heat load? With the apparent age of that property, I'm sure the standard MCS calcs would have the heat loss much higher.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Standard calcs would have it at around 30kW or more - yes.

[@areyouashappyaslarry]

@UrbanPlumbers do you use an approved method to reduce the notional heat load for your design, or is it just based on experience of similar buildings?

[@Enzo1980]

The house looks enormous. Only 2 external units? (energy multipliersxD)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yeah - some 660m2 including the outhouse. Also period property so more difficult in terms of heat loss. 2 units is exactly what it needs

[@colingoode3702]

Very nice.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thank you

[@TheRonskiman]

Awesome, hate to think how long the heat loss calcs took.

[@Robertkennedy316]

@urbanplumbers would a ground source heat pump be more efficient with this setup?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Maybe. But is downs have to win awards for efficiency here anyway

[@Robertkennedy316]

You mean neither setup will win awards for efficiency?

[@serraios1989]

9:39 The technology in this house is amazing Why they wanted to keep the domestic hot water vented?

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

The only zone that remained vented was the towel rails. The client wanted a higher flow temperature during the colder months and independant operation during the summer. The 210L vented tank in the cellar is heated with 2no Tesla Smart Thermostat 3kw Immersion Heaters programmable via their App to switch on during the EV tarrif @ 7p kwh or during excess solar days.

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

Just to recap the £££££££'s figures in case you missed them. In 1999, heating oil was priced at 7p per litre. To heat this house and swimming pool, using 10,000 litres resulted in 250 tonnes of CO2 emissions annually. Fast forward 24 years, and heating oil is now 70p per litre, equating to £69,000 spent and a significant amount of CO2 emissions. Looking ahead 20 years, at today's conservative oil price of 70p per litre and assuming the same annual percentage increase, the projected ppl cost rises to £4.28ppl multiplying to £400,925-again, going up in smoke and CO2. Given these figures, I’d be curious to hear from anyone who still believes the economics don't make sense. If you'd like more detailed data or have questions about the basic calculations, I’d be happy to discuss further.

[@migsteele]

Would a split heat pump not have been preferable for such long pipe runs? Smaller diameter pipework that could have been insulated to the same thickness as the water pipes. And only having water where the boiler was, with the long run being all refrigerant. Was that ever a consideration?

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

The smaller the pipe diameter and the longer the pipe runs, the more flow resistance, therefore under ground 40mm/50mm preinsulated was used. There are some systems that use glycol but that alters the viscosity of the liquid being transfered, thus affecting the pump efficiency. Szymon kept the design efficient and simple. The client was reluctant to install a commercial air-to-air heating system in their home, as its appearance was deemed too industrial and out of place in a domestic setting. They preferred a solution that blended seamlessly with the aesthetics and design of a residential property.

[@BenIsInSweden]

​@@MalcolmSkerrett I think op means a split a2w system where there's something like a hydrobox inside to feed the hot water etc. FGas would definitely be required though, I think Szymon had to use another contractor for moving an R32 system previously, so probably would have increased cost for not much gain.

[@CrowdControl2K8]

I'm an engineer in central London, I am seeing those press-fits starting to leak, water and gas ones.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yet in USA where those have been in use for years they don’t leak. Some fittings / guns combos do leak. We had issues with Geberit guns and non Geberit fittings.

[@gmuzz]

Did they not think about ground source?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

yes. Too much disruption and much higher installation cost for very little benefit in lower running costs or efficiency. This system runs now at a COP of 5.

[@gmuzz]

Fair enough. Need to get you round to quote in the new year!

[@Loopyengineeringco]

Stunning build, that scale is crazy. The EV battery setup is really interesting. No chance of a proper feature? Full packs are now getting popular with emulation, so no need to split packs with the appropriate high voltage inverters. Would be great to see how this was done

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

The EV battery and solar set up evolved from watching Off Grid channels during the pandemic, the solar panels and EV modules have been an ongoing project since Covid-19.

[@СергейНеобязательно-з1у]

No cooling? Just heating/hot water?

[@barriedear5990]

Cylinder just for towel rails seems a bit overkill. Just put a heating element in each radiator, not getting any efficiency using immersion heater for cylinder.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Allows for not only storing energy, charging it when sun shines and using later but also is much much cheaper than wiring 8 x elements and charging traditional bathroom rads to towel rails. Much better solution in this case.

[@barriedear5990]

@@UrbanPlumbers Fair enough. What are your thoughts on integrated heat pump cylinders (Mixergy or Vaillant Arostor), just for hot water, and running a secondary return off them to heat a bathroom towel radiator and a kitchen plinth heater? Love your work an enthusiasm. by the way.

[@frrcap]

Unless I missed it, you mention a control system at the beginning but didn’t discuss it in the end.

[@xxwookey]

That must have cost a bob or two. 80kW of PV panels is 10 grand, another 10 for both the heat pumps. then Victron inverters, and all that massive plumbing plus 3 weeks work. They should probably spend some more on retrofit to get the load down - they can clearly afford it, and it would make the place so much more comfortable. Be nice to know what the KWh/m2 per annum is for this place.

[@kenbone4535]

Where's your isos for the partial filters

[@UrbanPlumbers]

On the pipework 🔍👓

[@pablomax9376]

I personally think that getting a large solar and battery installation was the best investment I have made in my house, in terms of ROE, but keep in mind that any installer that tells you that your solar system will power your heat pump is a complete liar. In the summer months, I produce perhaps 80 - 90 KW per day on a good day. In the winter, on a very sunny day, perhaps 13KW per day. On a rain day, perhaps 2-4.

[@MalcolmSkerrett]

200 x 425w Trina panels 50 kWs on a cloudy day, 100 kWs no cloud no sun, 250+ kWs in sun and a decent sized bank of salvaged Li-ion battery modules charged either via solar or EON Next Drive EV tarrif 6.9p per kW midnight to 07.00hrs, 6 x MPP Solar 5kW hybrid inverters (in parallel) certainly does the trick on this installation.....honest !

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

All that copper looks really nice. Too bad it's too expensive to make a steampunk themed heat pump and matching boiler system.

[@serraios1989]

The average production of my solar system for Nov-Dec-Jan has been 7% (seven per cent) of annual average production

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Even 7% would fully power this set up as there is so much solar

[@deco2132]

But how much did the installation cost? How much would it cost minus any government subsidies? How much did it cost to get the house to a standard where a heat pump would work efficiently in terms of insulation etc. ? These systems are great in particular situations - ie. rich families with huge bank balances. However anyone working a normal job would never be able to afford the costs involved with heat pump installation. Its a huge shame.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Videos about normal families coming soon - promise

[@deco2132]

This wasn't a criticism at all - I am just hopeful that they eventually become the norm like in some countries in eastern Europe. Obviously once we are at that point the costs will be much lower. Great videos and fantastic workmanship - a true professional.

[@Danfranschwan2]

that was awesome!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thank you

[@natodemon1]

What a setup! Both heating and PV + storage. Didn't think such long external runs would be feasible. Maybe I missed something but was the swimming pool not connected to the heating loop in the end? Would be interesting to see the efficiency numbers on that. Also, what do your customers think of the efficiency monitoring system? Are they usually fine having the info openly available?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Swimming pool is on its own heat pump. System currently running cop of 5.0

[@rasheedafinowi-luitz5666]

Anyone know if all Vaillant Arotherm Plus can be wired either single phase 230V or three phase 400V? Or are there distinct models?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

there is no 3PH vaillant heat pump as far as I am aware

[@BenIsInSweden]

​@@UrbanPlumbers they have 3PH over here for the 10/12kW variations. But I think if the 1PH models were offered, they would not sell at all. As nearly all houses are on 3PH, mine is 3x20A, which I think is pretty common at least for houses with that kind of heat loss. Upgrading from 20A to 25A adds about 50% to the monthly grid subscription fee - which is already around £55.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yeah - Uk is mostly 1ph at 60/80/100 amps

[@rasheedafinowi-luitz5666]

The internals of the UK 12kw model do allow for 3 phase connection hence the question. Some electric devices eg heaters, cookers or car chargers allow a choice between single and 3 phase and will operate in either mode. I have three phase (3x80) in my UK home having upgraded from single phase.

[@rasheedafinowi-luitz5666]

@@UrbanPlumbers The internals of the UK 12kw model do allow for 3 phase connection hence the question. Some electric devices eg heaters, cookers or car chargers allow a choice between single and 3 phase and will operate in either mode. I have three phase (3x80) in my UK home having upgraded from single phase.