US Navy F-14 Shoots Down USAF RF-4C During Training

Source: www.washingtoni...
Thread: / us_navy_f14_shoots_dow...

[@tylerprufer7066]

Repeatedly he was on his phone texting during the briefing.

[@raymondyee2008]

More like doping off as they like to say.

[@raymondyee2008]

Allec Joshua Ibay has an FSX video based on this.

[@cmdrriotz5283]

Dude literally said "kill" even though he knew this was a training exercise....unreal.

[@raymondyee2008]

His RIO LT CMDR. Holland started freaking out after he said *”YOU SHOT HIM DOWN”*

[@NeutronRob]

I am assuming this was a training exercise. Whose brilliant idea it was to arm the Tomcat with a live Fox-2? I am in law enforcement, and we do a lot of firearms training, but never would it enter our minds to point a hot firearm at one of our fellow officers for training purposes. We use simunition training for that.

[@Solarbonite]

From what it sounds like all training done on carriers at the time (ns if it's the same now) was done with live ammo. That's a bit scary haha.

[@NeutronRob]

@@Solarbonite - Hell yes!

[@Chris-Theodore]

So what happened was basically he was told to participate in a different exercise with live missiles and at the last moment the objective changed.

[@NeutronRob]

@@Chris-Theodore - Okay. I'm just guessing here, but it sounds rather risky to engage in a training exercise where aircraft are doing mock engagements where those aircraft have live weapons. So it seems this pilot must've armed his missiles at some point during the engagement. I find that odd. I'm not the expert in these things, but it seems there is a degree of negligence here. As I have mentioned, being in law enforcement, I have seen ADs (accidental discharges) occur. Usually the cause of those ADs is negligence.

[@HitchensTV]

@@NeutronRob Before the kill he says "Didn't go" twice as he's firing simulated training missiles. Took him those two tries before reconfiguring to live fire and shooting down the friendly

[@Jako1741]

Maybe Lt. Dorsey was grounded forever after just a few hours in the F14, but he can tell he scored one kill, which is far more than what 99,9% of the fighter pilots can claim nowadays.

[@danilorainone406]

phantom pilot bailed?

[@ebhustln707]

yea, Ward Carroll youtube page explains the story behind this

[@devyoctavia451]

aacidentally shoot down?

[@DARTHBLUNT713]

Devy Octavia yes

[@AnAmericanDodo]

He intentionally shot it down, but thought it wasn't an exercise. This despite first picking up the F-4 while it was refueling at an American tanker aircraft.

[@zaidalanzi9939]

هل كان يقود سرب للطيران الكتروني"هل هو قائد سرب"

[@BosworthMcG]

Good kill! Uhh , no dude. Not good.

[@raymondyee2008]

More like “oops…the USAF Is going to be screaming at the USN for this mess”.

[@AvengerII]

Here's the kicker -- The pilot who shot down the RF-4C was PROMOTED Admiral two years prior to the release of this video! He had ID'd the aircraft shown as a USAF F-4 PRIOR to the shootdown but STILL shot it down when his commander told him to! Crazy! He should never have been promoted! The Navy itself thought he was so innocent and had such good judgment that although they didn't drum him from they service they STILL removed him the cockpit and didn't let him return to operating combat aircraft! Something's screwed up here!

[@onblock7]

All because of who his dad was I heard, he should have been kicked out IMO.

[@jayboe2993]

He was denied that rank

[@mikeross6436]

BS. The wad was nominated but never made it through the Senate Confirmation.

[@mikeross6436]

His Dad was a 3-Star who shot down his wingman in VN.

[@mikeross6436]

No he wasn't! The SASC turned him back to the Navy. He retired as an 0-6. FOLKS, it's really easy to look up. Don't put shirt on this site. Make sure it's factual. If it's opinion, state that!

[@LTFalls]

Are you guys sure it wasn’t a QRF-4C target drone (Q is used for drones, R is for reconnaissance , and F is for fighter)? I mean the Air Force actually converted many of their phantoms to test (mainly) missiles.

[@johnhatfield94]

This was in the late 80's. It was one of my jets from Zweibrueken, Germany. Talked to the Pilots about it and they were pissed!

[@jayboe2993]

yes

[@mikeross6436]

I was in it. No QRF.

[@mikeross6436]

@@johnhatfield94 Well said Johnny. Hope you're doing well partner.

[@larrybrock7931]

@@johnhatfield94 Was this a TEREC bird?

[@phillyfanist]

Eh.... Drones are used in training. If someone strayed where he shouldnt have been then you cant really blame the guy who fired when he was told to. Especially if his breifing was something along the lines of "live fire excersise involving target drones".

[@Corktip14]

Nothing like that. The USAF RF-4C was in a joint exercise with the USN, and the F-14 was carrying live missiles when he shouldn't have. That was a major fuck-up from the F-14 pilot: www.fighterpilotuniversity.com/alumni-house/alumni-news/usn-downs-usaf

[@phillyfanist]

Corktip14 if thats the case that the plane was loaded with war shots instead dummy missiles during a training excersise then the fuck up is on the part of the aviation ordnancemen who loaded the plane with live missiles instead of dummy ones like they were supposed to. You can try to blame the pilot all you want but heres the thing: the pilot is a soldier, just like the grunts on the ground. If he is ordered to take the shot and refuses, its a court martial. If he shoots when he's told to and a sidewinder comes off the rail when he's not expecting it to, he's not going to have enough time to warn the other plane before the missile hits. Now, with that part of my side of the debate said, i will say this: there are recorded instances in which pilots have forgotten to put the master arm switch back to its safe position after a simulated bomb run and have inadvertently fired live missiles at friendly aircraft. This again, in my opinion, while a serious infraction, is not a reason to end an officer's career for one very important reason: were the combat real, he would not be switching on the safety after every shot because he may need to fire with very little warning to save a friendly. But thats just my opinion.

[@johnhatfield94]

Correct! We were flying out of Aviano ABS, Italy, against the Saratoga in a joint mission. The RF-4C was doing a mock attack against the Saratoga. If you notice, the RF had 3 fuel tanks. It's not going to maneuver very well. It was there to be a target. Actually, it did the same thing in Desert Storm for the Weasels. Pilots were pissed about that, too. Anyway, Flukes of Hazard, the next post, is an idiot. Fine, the weapons load the jet. The Pilot does the walk around with the Crew Chief to accept the jet. If the pilot can't tell a live shot from a practice shot, don't fly.

[@johnhatfield94]

Hey Flukes. look at the reply above. The Pilot walks the jet with the Crew Chief before flight. He accepts the jet. If the Pilot can't figure out the difference between a dummy missile or a live missile, that's his problem. Don't blame it on the weapons folks or the Crew Chief.P.S. Your opinion sucks because you weren't there!

[@joshjanes5641]

The F14 was originally out on actual security patrol. Which is why they were carrying live ordinance.. during their patrol, the were tasked and entered into the wargame. They knew it was an exercise. But were given the command to shoot phraseology that the pilot said he was told would only be used in real live situations, he confirmed with his Rio and then took the shot. After the fact it came out that the phrase red and free on contact was used all the time in exercises and his argument held no merit.