USB-C charging is not as universal as you think

[@rossmanngroup]

Followup: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4akdZ-IgJmYZ7c

[@RandomUser2401]

an Anker, Aukey or Macbook USB-C charger would've charged all of the above. Apart from the framework charger the ones used are bad and don't properly implement the PD protocol.

[@yoann_m491]

I own an high end Aukey, and it fails to charge some devices. I'm guessing the issue is with with the devices themselves not implementing PD, not the charger.

[@monkeywadaf8863]

"But we care about planet, you already have charger at home" Charger at home: "wtf did you plug in? I don't know how to charge this thing."

[@realchiknuggets]

poetry

[@kunjupulla]

Well, the modern USB-C chargers support multiple fixed voltages. For example, by default it's 5V 2A for most chargers, and my oppo charger has a 10V 6.5A mode for 65W. If the device is smart and asks the charger for more juice it'll give provided that the charger supports that voltage.

[@XdewGaming]

@@kunjupulla That suggests the device asks for it. Some chargers will not provide any voltage for dumb devices, presumable to avoid power loss. As you can see, only the samsung charger does.

[@kunjupulla]

@@XdewGaming Exactly. It can be considered as a safety feature too. If the dumb device requires let's say 2.5V and the charger defaults to 5V, things can go wrong really fast.

[@tazogochitashvili6514]

@@kunjupulla You have to be a complete dumbass to engineer a device that takes in a USB input of any kind and expects less than 5V.

[@remty516]

Reading from comments, I agree with most of them and I think this is where things went wrong: The USB C spec works properly, but for C to C chargers to work with devices, they need new components on the device side that not every manufacturer will be willing to implement correctly. In the case of your pump it's apparently missing some resistors, they only changed the connector without worrying about the specs. Another problem is OEMs making USB C chargers (which everyone calls universal thanks to the OEMs themselves) that only support the preferred charge protocol for the device it ships with. Chargers you buy yourself from reputable brands will try to support as many protocols as they can. We need charge protocol benchmarks of chargers & devices to become the norm in reviews to hold manufacturers accountable for their low effort at making USB C as compatible as it can be.

[@Sacto1654]

Hence the need for chargers and charging cables that are FULLY compliant with the USB-IF Power Delivery standard, which supports up to 100 watt charging with the current 3.0 standard.

[@RandomUser2401]

an Anker, Aukey or Apple USB-C charger would've charged all of the above. Apart from the framework charger the ones he used are cheap trash.

[@jnwms]

we need usd c certification for products and chargers so we know they fully suppor the standard

[@cjjuszczak]

@@Sacto1654 Agreed, and we just got USB-C PD 3.1 for 240w too :)

[@fightingblind]

As soon as you make a charging protocol standard, Apple will change it...

[@kwakeham]

Doing some development recently and found that high wattage PD things tend to adhere to communications standards, and lower wattage is all over the place. This is 100% companies not adhering to requirements, but also because "oh this works well enough" requires two resistors, while proper compliance requires communications chips, and 90% of them require a microcontroller and the other 10% require writing the same script every other company will write. I'm dealing with this now with both TI and Maxim parts.

[@tuttocrafting]

Yep, but the fact that the pump doesn't work with both framework and pixel charger makes me think it lacks the two pull down resistors. And only uses data pins with bc 1.2 to handle the voltage... Very very bad design. I'm trying to figure out what the charger case is doing instead...

[@ianmcchickenlover3704]

The two resistors is proper compliance. Its listed in the USB implementers guidelines. Its cheap and should work with every charger, tho it would only draw limited power.

[@JB-fh1bb]

💯 I was so excited to get 12V out of tiny GaN power bricks, and equally as crushed when my testing showed all the nonsense

[@jannikheidemann3805]

@@JB-fh1bb Isn't GaN used to make violet light in LEDs? How would you get power from that? A GaN solar cell seems a bit expensive.

[@TheRailroad99]

@@jannikheidemann3805 GaN FETs have very good characteristics, that way they can stuff a high powered charger in small cases without much ventilation/heat sinking

[@hg-ir8tb]

From what I can tell, USB PD is a good standard... on paper. The problem is that it came too late after all the other device manufacturers made their own charging standards when USB 2.0 only had 5V, 0.5A (2A max with negotiation) power output. This led to scenarios where manufacturers like Nintendo use charging schemes that are considered out of spec and cause huge headaches for average consumers.

[@hk07666]

Yes, however, the Switch was released long after USB PD became a ubiquitous standard. So why can't Nintendo comply with the standard

[@RonnyJakobsson]

@@hk07666 because Nintendo wants you to buy their original products.

[@DragonEdge10]

@@RonnyJakobsson To be fair Nintendo Switch does have a more specific and niche implementation which I assume Nintendo decided to go with because it's more efficient and they just didn't bother making it compliant with standards after figuring out what their needs are.

[@hg-ir8tb]

@Swim Fan Last time I checked, Samsung's Adaptive Fast charger uses 9V/1.67A which can draw 15 W of power at max. I believe it's based off of Qualcomm's Quick Charge 2.0.

[@AlexandruLipan]

@@hk07666 To be honest, I am not surprised of a such move from a company that artifically keeps a Switch price over 290$ a piece since 2018, and gives a game for 40~60$.

[@Sercil00]

"We're not including the charger anymore. Let's be honest, EVERYONE already has like 5 of these lying around at home, right? Especially the USB-C ones that are relatively new and got excluded from the box by major phone manufacturers shortly after they were introduced. You see, it's cheaper for us, I mean, better for the environment. And by that, we mean that our CO2 footprint will get smaller and thus give us a better ESG score and therefore investors. Won't really help the environment at all once everybody orders a separate charger in a separate box in a separate delivery. But you only have to do that ONCE, right? Because the charger is universal..."

[@Right-Is-Right]

Weird how it is only expensive brands doing it, also weird how the cheap Chinesium devies have chargers that do work on other devices, the brick might be slightly bigger, but most of them will trickle charge any other UBC-C charge device and give better performance for the device it was designed to charge after receiving the signal from it that it is compatible.

[@DMDMDM7]

that's why i refuse to buy any phone that doesn't include charger. that's why i was gonna buy samsung latest A7x phone. but cancelled it. when i learned no charger are included. and now samsung dare to put ads that says "buy this phone and you are getting a free charger as a bonus". i can't face palm enough at that statement.

[@perwestermark8920]

@@Right-Is-Right Any USB C power adapter should be able to trickle charge - if the connected device itself supports trickle-charge with 5V and 500mA (USB 2) or 900mA (USB 3.0) or 1.5Acharger (USB C). The problem happens when a device wants much more power - because there are multiple standards for how to figure out you may draw morw current (5V 2.1A or 5V 2.4A) and/or stepping up the voltage. But we now have USB PD (Power Delivery) which also includes multiple Qualcomm QC (QuickCharge) standards. The older USB PD specifies how to negotiate up to 100W (requires special cable with a chip that signals "I support up to 5A") and the latest USB PD standard extends this up to 240W. So it would be more or less criminal to release new products that does not support the USB PD standard. Unless the device draws so little that it's fine with the 5V 1.5A lower limit for USB C power adapters. But people are likely to still fail to realize the difference between USB C cables linited at max 3A or at 5A (the variant that *must* contain a chip that says "I can handle 5A without any fire")

[@CreampuffgameZ]

Here ill give a product with less accessories and charge you more.

[@Chris-yc3mm]

I don't have 5 lying around :( if there is not one included I don't buy the product. Simple as that

[@mpx41]

"Smart" chargers tend not to work with "dumb" devices (because they quite often fail to adhere to the actual standard). And there's a whole separate issue of different cables supporting different voltages that you haven't mentioned. Still way better than a zoo of coaxial chargers that we used to have.

[@XLR8bg]

It's not really better when you have a bunch of unmarked cables and identical looking chargers, and you have to solve a puzzle to charge everything. USB-C desperately needs simple and clear markings, and the standards to be simplified. As a hot take, I'd much rather if USB PD was just two versions - basic (just 5V) and full (all the rest), with markings for up to how many Watts so you know if it will charge fast enough for your device. But in a classic USB Forum fashion, they messed up the labelling big time.

[@TabalugaDragon]

@@XLR8bg I have a USB C 100w cable and a Ugreen USB C 65 charger. They can charge pretty much anything.

[@ghunterforever]

It's not that there's different cable for different voltage, there is a different cable for different current limit. All USB type c cable can support 3 amp, and high quality cables can support 5 amp. As far as I know, cables does not dictate the voltage. So any cable can support after 60 watts at 20 voltage

[@VallornDeathblade]

I remember before USB standards we had a thousand different kinds of mobile chargers and if you wanted to plug a mobile phone into a computer you needed another cable which looked almost the same but had 1-2 different pins and was thicker than a finger. I'm glad we no longer have that spaghetti mess of chargers now.

[@johnschneider931]

Dont even remind me of the different charge cords of the pda, candybar phone era

[@awarepenguin3376]

Louis: Dropping knowledge. Me: Since when are there USB-C, rechargeable, air mattress pumps?

[@profosist]

I know right I'm used to having to blow them up manually

[@user-cu1uj6bl3r]

my disposable vape takes USB-C.(one intended to toss afterwords) You'd be surprised how many devices use it now.

[@Clavinohou]

@@user-cu1uj6bl3r wtf is the point of a disposable vape lmao

[@lordofdrones]

@@user-cu1uj6bl3r "my disposable vape" Gee, how come your mom lets you have 3 cancers!?

[@namenull7399]

@@Clavinohou Convenience. Building mods can be dangerous if you do it wrong and lots of mods leak when you fill them because they seal when you close them. You also have to rebuild mods every couple of months as the wire and cotton will eventually degrade and burn. Most people don't want to deal with it and value convenience over everything else so the manufactures started making disposables and some don't even sell their vape juice separate anymore, so if their is something specific you want you're buying it as a disposable. It sucks but that's just the way of things.

[@WizardTim]

To be fair the USB C standard does work, a lot of thought has been put into it and I find it allows for fantastic interoperability, however it must be implemented properly which is often not done either because it's the engineer's first time with USB C or it's intentional cost cutting. It is also a standard trying to not only power most low-mid power devices but also achieve very high data rates but still be affordable in all scenarios, as a result it is inevitability very complex. The air mattress pump was likely quickly modified to accept USB C, they probably didn't realize they needed resistors on CC1 and CC2 or a common mistake is to only use 1 resistor or bridge the two resistors together, this results in the device only working with USB A to USB C cables which always have 5 V and don't use the CC pins, the pump likely has in its instructions "Use only the provided USB A to USB C cable for charging." because they couldn't figure out what was wrong or they never caught it during development. Modern flagship smartphones often have very intelligent power negotiation ICs that can handle most scenarios, almost always both USB C PD as well as older USB QC and others along D+ D-. However getting full charge rate off them you need not only the right charger but the right USB C cable, unfortunately many companies don't advertise those specifications so it can be very difficult to know what you're actually buying, also expecting the average end consumer to fully understand this without being an engineer themselves is also quite a stretch but I think is reasonable if done properly with good communication of support and adherence to the standards. Consumers already know the meaning of things like 1.8 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, 3,000 mAh battery and 2.1 A charger, supported voltages and currents for USB C PD devices should always be clearly displayed in device specifications on product pages however I find today this is rarely done well or at all. The framework charger likely doesn't comply with USB C PD charger requirements, many laptop chargers do this in order to save money (looking at you Nintendo). It probably only supports 15 V or 20 V so doesn't power 5 V devices. Chargers at certain wattages are meant to support certain voltages but there are of course exceptions in the standard as well as the fact the USB C police aren't going to come knocking if you cheap out and all the consumer can do is complain a bit. One thing you don't mention but I absolutely hate and think should be punished are chargers that are cheaply redesigned to use the USB C connector but don't do any intelligent communication, so they just constantly have 12 V on the connector, you plug that into a 5 V device and BANG your device is bricked and of course the company responsible for the dangerous charger will say, "The manual says the charger is only for our device, pound sand".

[@rossjennings4755]

I have one of the Framework chargers and it does say on the charger itself that it will do 3 A at 5, 9, 15, or 20 V. Admittedly, I don't have an easy way to verify that, but so far it's worked with every USB-C device I've tested it with. I'm somewhat disturbed to see it fail to charge two of the devices in this video, since I had taken it for a good-quality charger.

[@43j832]

@@rossjennings4755 don't be. The two devices don't follow the PD standard. Its getting better but people cheap out but it will catch up to them in the market

[@WizardTim]

@@rossjennings4755 Thanks for that info, good to know it does claim to support the PD standard properly. I would suspect then the phone battery probably doesn't support PD and the CC pins aren't connected (incorrect for this implementation), instead they're probably trying to get away with using old a USB QC controller on D+ D-, as a result chargers that only support USB PD and not QC don't see anything and never attempt to apply power. I will add, I've been trying to put USB C PD into a device, however the PD controller I chose has been out of stock and on backorder for almost 2 years, so it's using USB QC in USB C but implemented correctly and it works with almost all USB C PD chargers.

[@johnnycheung5536]

Here's the thing about Power Delivery. AFAIK, PD1.0 supported 5V, 12V, 15V and 20V. I still have an Innergie/Delta 45W hardwired charger that used PD1.0 profiles. It had no 9V support at all. The 12V PDO was removed from PD2.0 onwards, but manufacturers can make their chargers support this optional PDO. Any charger that is designed to adhere to Power Delivery 2.0+ alone is likely to not have 12V PDO support because that PDO is *optional*. Framework's 60W charger adheres to PD3.0, so there is no 12V support, but your sentence "The framework charger likely doesn't comply with USB C PD charger requirements" is false. It has the following spec: 5V/3A 9V/3A 15V/3A 20V/3A, plus PPS 3.3V-21.0V/2.855A (identifies as 3.3V-21.0V/3A when probed by an USB power meter). I know this, because I own and use a Framework laptop as my main computer. PD trigger circuits are non-compliant, yes, at the same time these are mandatory if one wants to make legacy DC-based devices work over USB-C. I'm well aware of the risk of these things bricking stuff: I've already killed two devices (1 USB light, 1 AA/AAA charger) because the charger is stuck at 20V after using a trigger and won't default to 5V without a hard power reset. I presently have one such adapter to power a 2012 MacBook Pro via USB-C, rather than use the dedicated 85W MagSafe 2 brick it came with. Besides, at low loads it doesn't use all of 85W anyway, and Apple is infamous for atrocious cable strain relief. My workaround for devices that won't charge C-C is a simple one, actually: an USB-C to micro-USB cable, then a micro-USB to USB-C adapter tethered to the cable.

[@MLGaeming]

I was wondering why my power bank had a separate "trickle charging" mode. Apparently it just uses a dumb 5V output instead of forcing negotiations.

[@imicca]

Same here but i never use that for my AirPods, which Anker says it should be used

[@luckyo11]

There's another benefit to that where if your device's battery is dead enough that it won't be able to power the charging chip to negotiate voltage, it will still accept 5V 2A input and start charging.

[@CptJistuce]

That's a nice feature. Being able to force a slower charge rate will make non-replacable batteries last much longer.

[@bubba99009]

There's always been the issue where smart powerbanks will shut off with too small of a load - would be another way of dealing with that issue as well.

[@Patelivision]

Which power bank is this

[@Sterlingr89]

I remember learning about this a while back when the Nintendo Switch first came out. Some chargers charge it, some only maintain charge level. Some don't work with it, and some even outright can cause damage to it. Not sure if it's still an issue with newer models, but, apparantly it was something to do with the switch's port, and their implementation of the host signal voltages.

[@Voyajer.]

The switch isn't USB-C compliant, just like his case battery and that air mattress pump. IIRC it only damaged the switch if you tried to power the dock+switch itself with a different charger.

[@Heimbasteln]

@@Voyajer. I bet the case battery is actually compliant but the laptop charger isnt

[@Voyajer.]

@@Heimbasteln the framework 60W power brick is USB-C PD compliant. I've handled my friend's before when he showed it off to me.

[@silvy7394]

Thats because your power source doesnt output enough power. Not a USB C problem.

[@m.devellis]

@@Voyajer. The switch in docked mode works with any charger that can do 45w / 15v+3A charging problem is the way they implemented the actual USB and display parts of the Type-C standard. 90% of type-c dongles out there don't work with the Switch(HDMI, Ethernet, Micro SD slots etc.) unless you just need a USB splitter. Anything else and it has to be specifically made with the Switch in mind.

[@web1bastler]

The issue here is the charging circuit in the device. I assume that the circuit in the pump is literally a copy/paste job like "hey it worked with micro usb, so let's just slap a usb c on there". Problem being a proper usb-c charger will monitor the CC pins before it delivers any power. A usb-a charger will put out 5V regardless. But to be fair there is o excuse why we couldn't just standardize on maybe 3 to 4 ranges of usb c power all of which *have* to support a set range of voltages with the given currents to reach their power rating: 18W: Needs to support at least 9V 30W: Needs to support at least12V 60W: Needs to support at least 20V >60W: Needs to support all voltages up to 48V

[@michamaj6290]

USB-C PD does specify voltages. More Watts = higher voltages supported. USB-C PD chargers aren't allowed to 'skip' voltages inbetween.

[@Masterrunescapeer]

I think it's already part of the USB PD spec that CC pins need to be there, so adding the set of ranges won't help.

[@profosist]

@@Masterrunescapeer can't make people use the spec if they don't get it certified

[@equi-nox]

> A usb-a charger will put out 5V regardless. But to be fair there is o excuse why we couldn't just standardize on maybe 3 to 4 ranges of usb c power all of which have to support a set range of voltages with the given currents to reach their power rating: That's what they did. 15W is 5V. 27W is 9V. (36W is 12V. - not really a thing) 45W is 15V. 60W is 20V. 100W is 20V plus 5A cable. 240W is 48V plus 5A cable. And the charger is required to support all lower voltages.

[@ghostface5559]

they forget communication chips

[@somethingelse2740]

Never had a problem with charger swaps. I used a slightly lower output charger for my tablet from day one, and the battery is still going strong, 8 years next month. I'm not a big believer in fast charging as a necessity. I'd rather ease the power into my batteries. Less heat, less stress, longer life. Thanks for the demonstration Louis!

[@okandemirbaykal5597]

Very interesting. My experience has been nearly flawless with USB-C compatibility with different devices. However, I should point out that I have a non-bundled (Baseus 65W GaN charger, the old one) charger that charges my friend's e-cigs, my ipad, my s22, my laptops, and every other USB-C device I've ever tried it on. It may be that standalone chargers may "go out of their way" (even though this should be expected) to tick more compatibility boxes than default chargers. Just an FYI, doesn't really fix the fact that USB-C specs are guidelines not enforced as many electronics standards are.

[@diegosierra]

I have the same charger and it's a beast, I use it to power everything, even my soldering iron with an adapter to barrel jack, and my macbook Air with a custom made adapter. It's never failed to charge or power any device.

[@vylbird8014]

The GaN thing is really just marketing BS. Yes, GaN components can operate at higher frequencies and temperatures than more conventional silicon - but even the most overpowered of USB chargers is not pushing the limits of silicon components. The choice of inductor matters a lot more than substituting a GaN component. Most of them don't even use synchronous converters, because those cost more.

[@okandemirbaykal5597]

@@vylbird8014 They're not advertising any charging gimmick that other chargers aren't capable of. It's just that they're smaller bricks. Both Anker's and Baseus's GaN lineup just use the tech to make things smaller, from my understanding.

[@planefan082]

I suppose I've been lucky. The charger that came in the box with my fairly new Samsung (got it late 2020), 15W, has worked with everything. Slowly, in the case of my laptop and Switch, but it works.

[@Hekovashi]

@@vylbird8014 Gan s about size, not power output. Yes you can have a 65w non-gan charger, but it swill be twice the size of a gan charger.

[@Stadtionalist]

I honestly never encountered this issue, while I mix up chargers, cables and devices all the time. Those devices include various brand phones, headsets, charging cases, a dab+ radio, daylight lamp, chromebook, workstation laptop, docking station, wireless mice and keyboards and a dashcam. The only issue I encounter is when I use a 1A or 1.5A output brick (or USB plug on an extention cord or powerbank), my phones and laptops will display a warning that fast charging is not available. Even using an aliexpress micro USB to USB C adapter on random garbo micro USB cable works. Watching the video and reading the comments, I'm one lucky SOB who should count his blessings.

[@lesto12321]

same, but i am from EU.. are you too?

[@Stadtionalist]

@@lesto12321 Yep

[@saddane6897]

@@Stadtionalist Yeah same here, tho im pretty sure this is a regulation thing, all non-china/cheapo chargers will output 5V@1A minimum almost garantied in most EU nations. Personaly i never came across an USB charger that didnt output 5V, unless it was broken.

[@DMack6464]

@@saddane6897 5v has been a usb standard for a very long time

[@Muhluri]

I'm from South Africa and I've had no problems with any type C devices

[@h2835]

My thoughts on this as an European citizen: Oh, I can see so many lawsuits against those equipment manufacturers. You see, our rules actually state, that your USB-C device HAS to be compliant with the standards. This results in the fact, that every single charger we got in Europe was compatible with every single device we could pair with it. Otherwise the device would be banned, and the company fined up to a few tens/hundred bucks per device sold. And we regularly have devices banned due to being shoddy quality.

[@enzycal]

Exactly. The problem are the manufacturers not adhering to the standard and not the standard itself.

[@SteelSkin667]

The USB Power Delivery mandate has only been voted a couple months ago year and won't be in effect until 2024. The current situation in the UE is exactly the same as the one Louis is demonstrating in the video.

[@juntapiezas]

I now get why this never happened to me...

[@juntapiezas]

@@SteelSkin667 I'm European and I have 12 USB-C devices and 8 chargers. Not a single problem mixing them. They do work.

[@SteelSkin667]

@@juntapiezas I also have mixed and match chargers for years and have always at least obtained some level of charge, but I do know there are edge cases that you and I just haven't stumbled upon just yet. Also when it comes to negotiating how much power they can draw, different devices will use different fast charging protocols that aren't compatible with one another and will charge at various speeds depending on the implementation. That is until 2024 when Power Delivery will become mandatory for fast charging.

[@bobdunstan5457]

When criticizing USBC to tell the whole story and place the blame squarely where it belongs. While I am not familiar with these specific devices or chargers, but I can make some educated guesses. Specifically for the inflator: First hint is that the LED on the inflator did not light for the first two chargers you used, but did for the last. So I speculate that the first two chargers either had a captive cable or a USBC to USBC cable. If so, they are truly USBC chargers and will only supply power then the device properly terminates the pins on it USBC connector. The third charger appeared to be a charger that had an A connector output and used an A to USBC cable. The reason one worked is that the A charger always outputs 5V. If this is the case as I strongly suspect, please blame the device's incorrect implementation of the USBC connector rather than USBC. With respect to the other devices and chargers, there is not enough information in the video to understand why the chargers did not work as expected. That said, I am very concerned that in the real USBC is not as universal as it should be. The USB community has gone out of its way to develop a compliance program to ensure interoperability of chargers and data devices. It pains me that there are some out there that short cuts which result in uneven behaviors such as you have demonstrated here.

[@just_thammi]

He explicitly stated that he is looking from the perspective of your average joe consumer. Which in this regard usb C charging is a mess and non intuitive as it makes itself to be

[@_BangDroid_]

​@@just_thammi No. The problem lies with cheap consumer goods that don't comply to standards. You can't hold the standard at fault for designers *not* following it. Heck even very known brands deviate from the USB spec from time to time. Eg, My Rode USB mic is technically not class compliant. You are right the average consumer wouldn't know the technical details. But it's a stupid conclusion to make. Like if you buy a cheap ass $2 battery bank from aliexpress and it burn your house down, are you going to conclude ALL batter banks are dangerous? The battery case and air inflator look like basically disposable crap from Amazon, who's designers only cared enough to get it functioning for sale.

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

Why is there a difference between USB-A and USB-C standards? It's supposed to be universal. Everyone uses adapter plugs and cables between USB-A and USB-C.

[@edwardtan1354]

@@Anonymous-sb9rr pin out is different since USB A with have 4 wires where 1 is 5V its a given that it should be able to charge stuff now the question is for "smart" chargers where the device and the charger have to "talk" when it will start receiving power can also be an issue

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

@@edwardtan1354 Why doesn't the charger just sent 5V power if the attached device doesn't communicate? That would make it backward compatible.

[@profosist]

This is something that frustrates me to no end. I tend to buy higher end chargers which both A and C ports on them which can usually get around the issue.

[@realchiknuggets]

what is that pfp

[@profosist]

@@realchiknuggets Custom Dark/Night version of Inori Aizawa crying. Had to update it due to the death of IE. She was the mascot for IE in Asia. She would cry when you went to her website with anything older than IE11 or Firefox/Chrome.

[@kenskeats]

As a technician that replaces these types of ports on devices everyday they may all look the same on the outside but finding a replacement type -c port can be impossible for some makes and models of devices particularly laptops with type-c ports and they are very easy to damage this is going to become a massive problem as these become more common.

[@markvogel5872]

This is actually really interesting and not normally the type of video I watch. I have many times thought a charger was broken and tossed them. But as a samsung s9 user I guess I lucked out with a plug that does charge most things. This is a good crossover from your tech fans and your real-estate ones.

[@T3hBeowulf]

With USB-C, some devices are only pinned on one side and will appear not to work until you flip the cable over and insert again. I think this is particularly true for devices that use the USB 2.0 data pins for negotiation. At least with micro-usb, you could only insert the connector one way to charge. Inserting it the other way broke the port... instant feedback.

[@kopazwashere]

USBC PD, USBC QC 3.0, 2.0, yadi yada yada Same port, different charging standard/voltage std.

[@MrDeaf]

Huh, interesting. I have had a mostly frustration free experience with USB-C. The usual issues I have had were with cheaper USB-C (both C to C, and A to C) cables not having data. The unusual issues I have encountered were with USB-C GaN PD chargers. When the GaN charger features multiple C ports, some of them can enter a reboot loop when you plug in two devices that request >45W, even when the GaN charger is rated at 90W~100W total output. The better GaN chargers would split the load into, for example, 65W+20W, but the bad ones tended to do, for example, 45W+45W.

[@tibo786]

What brand GaN charger would you classify as good?

[@ilya_mzp]

The mattress pump probably just uses a USB-C connector without any resistors on CC1 and CC2 pins, so the only chargers that can charge it are the ones that constantly output 5V. The resistors on CC1 and CC2 pins are a part of the USB-C standard, so clearly some devices don't take that into consideration. Why the framework laptop charger didn't work with the case I have no idea, maybe the charger only works with PD, while the case uses resistors on CC pins. The best option is to buy a charger that has two connectors: USB-C and the normal USB-A. Use the USB-A to USB-C cable with non-compliant devices.

[@profosist]

Your suggestion is exactly what I do personally but it's kind of sad to have to do it if only everything was implemented properly

[@teardowndan5364]

High-power adapters only being designed for USB-PD is my guess too. Support for dumb 5V3A by default would be nice for legacy devices but generally unnecessary for large power bricks intended for 50-240W loads where USB-PD is technically mandatory.

[@_mkc]

The case probably suffers from the same issue as the original Raspberry Pi 4 did, where it only supported non e-marked cables due to only having one 5.1KOhm resistor for both CC pins. The blame falls squarely on the crappy manufacturers not adhering to the spec, not the spec itself. My suggestion would be to only stick to USB-IF certified devices.

[@JaySee5]

Yes, the problem is not USB-C, it's the crap pump that doesn't follow the USB-C standard.

[@waynenakanishi971]

@@_mkc Totally agree. If manufacturers follow the protocol, even it only works on 5 volts, this would never be a problem.

[@Verlisify]

I have gone mad over having a random USB C device not work with the various chargers around the house, then ordering a new one that also doesn't work

[@raxcentalruthenta1456]

It's primarily the charging protocols. If everything just used USB PD it wouldn't be a problem. But every company feels the need to use their own charging standards.

[@UhOhUmm]

EU just put that in law so new products will eventually use USB PD.

[@TheRailroad99]

I think it should not be necessary to use PD. However it SHOULD be necessary to use the 5.1K pullup resistors ("CC"). Not every devices needs more than 5V/3A, in fact, most do not. It would be a waste of silicon and a massive overcomplication to use digital communication/enumeration for their ports

[@jamesq7752]

I just wish the USB PD standard wasn't so complicated... It's 800 pages long! I can't help but think that more companies would voluntarily use it if it was a bit simpler...

[@eduardoavila646]

Oooh and there's more! How about data protocols? Thunderbolt and non thunderbolt. Pcie capable and not capable, video capable and not video capable, etc

[@zmast333]

@@jamesq7752 Agreed. They should make a simplified spec for power brick manufacturers. Last time I looked at the specs they were so complicated that it was difficult to make sense of them. Part of the problem is that there's a lot of stuff there for backwards compatibility. And stuff that never got used in practice. USB PD was already supported _before_ USB-C but I've never seen anything use it. AFAIK Apple was using resistors on data pins and some others were using Qualcomm's QuickCharge (which at some point started using PD too, to add to the confusion).

[@ryqueezy6327]

“USB-C charging is not as universal as you think” is truly the informative video of all time. I especially loved it when Louis said “It’s chargin’ time” and charged all over the phones.

[@yakovhadash]

it’s Rossin’ time

[@houghwhite411]

It's funny how it's only the connector that is universal, doesn't mean everything magically electrically compatible

[@wontcreep]

it universally mechanically inserts lol. lmao.

[@profosist]

I mean if everyone made everything correctly it would. Everyone has to actually follow that standard.

[@rossmanngroup]

I completely understand the device that requires 20 volts or 9 volts not being compatible with the charger that only puts out 5 volts. What kills me is when a charger that can put out five, nine, or 20 volts at the required amperage still does not work even with a lower voltage device. You used to get s trickle charge if you used the wrong charger back in the day. It wasn't as common to get *nothing.* what complicates things more is that *two of the three devices that I demonstrated here do not come with their own chargers!* They expect you to have your own. How are you supposed to know which USBC charge will work with the device that did not come with a charger if it does not agree with all chargers?

[@profosist]

@@rossmanngroup just because it does 9v doesn't mean it does 5v. Biggest thing your seeing, especially at 9v is that if it shipped with a A to C cable for charging it probably uses Qualcomm QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 if it shipped with a C to C its probably USB-PD these technologies are not interchangeable. Even that's not always the case since brands don't always implement the standards or do it properly. The switch is a great odd example it when new was one of thew few devices to use 15v. It only properly charges with 15v and doesn't use PD. The accessories use 5v so their charger does nothing in between. Apple only loosely follow PD spec and seem to nearly always skip 12v on their C chargers.

[@mtnentertainment3454]

@@rossmanngroup the issue is the charging controllers in cheap devices want a "dumb" charger. They lack the ability to communicate a voltage and just want 5v supplied at whatever amperage full stop. This is what is causing the issue here I suspect. Many new charging bricks no longer supply any voltage until a voltage is requested, whereas older ones would supply 5v period until a higher voltage was requested. I've had this issue with a pair of headphones that I let die completely, I had to use a dumb charger to get the charging started because the headphones couldn't communicate with my newer power bricks until it had enough voltage in the battery already to actually request a voltage. Previously they could use the 5v standard to do that but that standard is no longer guaranteed to be supplied for a variety of reasons.

[@shawnswinferd703]

For someone that's supposed to be "ranting", this made a great ASMR video. Thanks ;)

[@perilousrange]

My frustration was intense when attempting to find a usb-c battery bank that could produce 15v (to power a camping cpap). 15v support is rare, and is typically the first corner cut.

[@LordomusPL]

Xiaomi Mi Powerbank 3 Pro i have does support 15V as well. Its quite handy cause Nintendo Switch uses 15V@2.6A. So alternatively if you need off-the-wall 15V you can buy Switch Powerbrick

[@chaos.corner]

DJS50 car jump starters also have a settable laptop-charger output. Though it's dumb and not USB so that may not be useful to you.

[@perilousrange]

@@LordomusPL I didn't know that the Nintendo stuff required it. That should hopefully make it more mainstream. For those interested, the CPAP in question is a Z2. Works like a champ with the right battery bank and cable.

[@Right-Is-Right]

@@LordomusPL Thank's for that, looked it up and it looks porety cool and at a decent price for anyone interested in specs (it looks like it is repeating it's self but that is due to two ports) .USB-C Input: 5V/3A, 9V/3A, 12V/3A, 15V/3A, 20V/2.25A (45W) USB-C Output: 5V/3A,9V/3A,12V/3A,15V/3A, 20V/2.25A (45W) USB-A (Single port): 5V/2.4A, 9V/2A, 12V/1.5A (18W) USB-A (Dual USB): 5V/3A (15W)

[@perwestermark8920]

Nope. Not a corner cut. It's perfectly fine that the power adapter doesn't support 15V if it's a low-power adapter. The majority of adapters not intended for laptops don't need to support so much power that 15V is mandatory. 12V 3A is 36W so 12V is already enough for very fast phone charging. Not that many phones supports 15V 3A = 45W. But go for a USB PD adapter intended for laptops and you will have support for 15V because the adapter would then support at least 60W (20V 3A) but could support 100W (20V 5A - special cable needed) or even all the way up to 240W (48V 5A) for the latest USB PD standard.

[@UNgineering]

I had a similar experience when I was replacing some microUSB port to a USB-C port. Turns out USB-C standard is a lot more complicated and many chargers/cables/devices do not implement it properly. On a base level, if the device has 5.1k pulldown resistors on CC1 and CC2 lines, the device should charge with almost any charger/cable combo.

[@darkrinshade4363]

I appreciate this video. Recently I've been getting a lot of latitude 7420 laptops getting an issue with their USB c ports, and multiple computers that cannot carry a proper display signal to external monitors when connecting to docking stations through USB c .

[@kennethamartin830]

I have seen a lot of Latitudes with the usb c port broken off the board. Mostly 5500's.

[@LordomusPL]

7420 and 7410's have a small problem its called DELL properietary USB/Thunderbolt controller, Its the main culprit for USB issues for these laptops. Unfortunately the only way to fix it is to replace mobo :")

[@kennethamartin830]

@@LordomusPL The c ports on the 5500 and similar models have too much play where you can move the cable around. Making it very easy to rip the USB c right off the mobo.

[@beaniiman]

This is why there is a PD standard that things are finally starting to take advantage of.

[@Icehso140]

I use a DROK charge monitor whenever I have a question about my chargers. This device is relatively cheap and tells the user what voltage and current is being supplied by the charger or what the device is drawing for current. The double ended USB-C cord will need an adaptor to plug into the large USB port on the Drok, but this unit has answered many questions that come up about charging each device. Some high capacity Dewalt 20 volt batteries cannot be charged to full capapcity by a lower capacity Dewalt charger. A 5mAH battery sems to need a Dewalt charger capable of charging it fully. The only consistancy in battery technology is the inconsistancy that we see. But battery tech is getting better.

[@yakovhadash]

DROK SEE CURRENT DROK TELL TO HU-MON HUMAN SAY: DROK GOOD

[@pepperjackshack2439]

Ive noticed this a few weeks ago so its nice to see a video about it. USB C video cables also cant charge devices in some instances. Like if you see a USB-C cable, you'd think, i can use this to charge my laptop, my phone, display video to my TV. But no, not all cables can charge and display video, each cable is built by the manufacture to work with their device. Almost a downgrade from USB-B Micro. USB B micro suffers the same draw back (some cables just charge while other can pass data) but USB-B was never intended to pass video and support a wide range of wattages.

[@Alvin853]

Many cheap USB-C cables only connect the 5V, GND, D+ and D- pins that are required for basic USB 2.0 communications and slow charging off a USB-A port (USB-C chargers usually require the charger communication signal to turn on). USB-C doesn't mean it's 3.0 or faster. If you want cables that can do everything, make sure to look for 20Gb/s or even better TB3 or USB4 compliance. Yeah they're going to be more expensive, but they just work.

[@Megaranator]

well duh if you buy cable not rated for 200 W don't expect to it to be able to handle it. I f oyu buy chinesium you get chinesium

[@pepperjackshack2439]

@@Alvin853 well worded, thanks for the comment :)

[@grandixximo]

I always thought there was something wrong with my devices, didn't get to the realization that this standard is broken, till I saw this video, thank you for the information!

[@Mo_Klonus]

What if you swap the cables? For example, if the cable that charges the air mattress pump is attached to the framework charger, does it work then? I've found not all cables are created equally this way, which adds to the USB-C charging "universal" experience as well.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

Air matress pump only charges with a USB-A to USB-C cable, that won't fit in a place of a USB-C to USB-C cable.

[@YharoTorres]

@@volodumurkalunyak4651 wouldn't the brick just need to use a usb c output port?

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

@@YharoTorres USB-C port, even on charger needs "I am a load, supply me with power" message (2x 5,1k resistors from both CC1 and CC2 to GND) before outputting 5V instead of 0V. USB-C plug may provide power unconditionally as a part of a USB-A to USB-C cable. USB-A to USB-C cables enable device manufacturers to save a few cents on a product so it only charges via that cable. There are also some non-compliant TYPE-C chargers that unconditionally provide power to TYPE-C port - also adds to a previous confusion

[@YharoTorres]

@@volodumurkalunyak4651 So to summarize, USC C ports would need that small front end circuit to even decide to default to the 5V 2A charging state? This seems more of an issue with manfucaturs of products than actual USB C standards.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

@@YharoTorres yes, default USB-C charging state is 5V 1,5A or 5V 3A or 5V 0,1A + further negotiating via D+ and D- (actual USB-IF standart, depends on exact resistor within charger itself) The last one is what cellphone or some laptops supply, true mains USB-C charger defaults to outher 2 modes.

[@nathanmielke1977]

This is an excellent video! It answers so many of my questions! Please go into the details of the "why". Because this mess need to be sorted out.

[@markackerman9485]

I'm no expert, just someone who has modded a gameboy SP to USB C and I think I might remember some stuff. The device should be able to tell the charger "I can take X voltage" and the charger will give out the highest voltage it can that doesn't exceed that (I think the choices are 5, 9, 12, 20). Whatever the maximum voltage a device can take, it should be able to also take all the ones lower. But that's only if following the USB PD standard. Nintendo Switch doesn't use that standard. OnePlus Warp charge doesn't use that standard. Lots of things haven't started using the standard yet. Laptop charger's seem to be the most common item that actually does use it. The Apple USB-C to Lightning for fast charging an IPhone uses USB PD. I think Samsung uses it too. But it'll probably take a couple years before everything is made using it.

[@AJ-wf1vh]

Everyone is using USB PD including the Switch. The switch is just a bit peculiar about the voltages. The only devices that don't support PD are older USBC phones (that charge using one of the Qualcomm fast charge/Samsung quick charge) and the chargers that came with them and shortly after them. And of course devices that only need 5V/2A. Oppo's VOOC is a special exception. It uses a high amperage (5+A). USB PD doesn't support this. Even then, I'd think most VOOC phones and chargers support USB PD

[@25EllisDee25]

The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

[@AvocadoAtrocity]

You might have to rotate the USB C cable. The USB C cables themselves have different standards. Crappy cables might not charge them all. This is my experience.

[@jamesbrooks9321]

glad i saw this video before i ever encounter this problem, preventing possible future headaches

[@BriBCG]

I think the most funny part about this to me is that I don't recall ever plugging in a micro b and having it not work. One step forward, two steps back I guess?

[@TheRailroad99]

The HW designers of his devices fucked it up. Never had any issues with USB C charging with my own devices. Both the PD and the "pullup resistor" types.

[@christophermorin9036]

They did change the pin outs on Micro B at some point, because my Samsung Galaxy S3 will not charge from the same cable that came with my Moto E4.

[@alvareo92]

@@TheRailroad99 the standard shouldn’t be open to manufacturers that don’t follow the spec

[@kennyadvocat]

Even back then some of the cheaper cables would only charge and it wouldn't carry data. Was a pain with digital cameras connecting to your computer. You have several cables that look the same but only one did the data transfer.

[@mjc0961]

"I think the most funny part about this to me is that I don't recall ever plugging in a micro b and having it not work." I do, all the time, because the micro B connector was absolute garbage and would break if you looked at it funny.

[@omrihadar8823]

I would love a video going into more detail on the difference chips and how and why they don't work with each other

[@ailivac]

What I've noticed on a few "dumb" 5V-only things is that they don't bother to include the pulldown resistor that passively activates PD supplies to 5V output, so they work with a legacy A port but not with a PD source with a type C port. And IMO the ONLY real advantage to using C over the older connectors is power delivery, so the cheap designs completely negate that. The idea is that everyone's phone is using C now, so you can use the same cable to charge everything else, except that if you're using a PD charger to not waste hours charging your phone at only 7W then you can't use that cable with everything else. I also have a laptop for work that can charge from USB C, but it NEEDS at least 100W. There's no legitimate reason I can see that the battery can't be charged slower, Dell was just too lazy to program in more than one current limit setting. Sure, I can get a 100W PD supply that's the size of a regular laptop brick, and it's a slight improvement since it's not a proprietary connector that only works with one brand, and i can even use the same one to charge my phone, but all of the "interesting" power supplies out there (multi-port brick so I don't need to travel with one for the laptop, one for the phone, yet another one for flashlights/headphones/whatever; or DC-in power supplies I can use in the car without resorting to a goddamn inverter just to step the voltage up and back down again) I've found are limited to either 45W or 60W.

[@TheRailroad99]

+1. Missing pullup resistors are 99% the issue

[@AJ-wf1vh]

Most USB c laptops that support 100W will also charge with 70W. A standard laptop charger is 70W. Lower than that and it might not be supported. You can also charge your phone with it. Just not together. I found only carrying my laptop charger good enough now. The cable is very long so it's even better. You can swap between phone and laptop during the day and pack a little 20W brick on your suitcase so you can charge everything at night Edit: charging your phone using your car 12V sounds like a good idea to get stranded. Better get a nice power bank for that. Lots support 70W pd

[@ailivac]

@@AJ-wf1vh oh I carry a power bank whenever I'm actually going to be away from the grid for any length of time. but I have a 60W PD supply hard wired into the car that I can use to fast charge my phone when I'm in there. it will also charge my HP laptop fine, just not my unnecessarily power hungry work laptop

[@AJ-wf1vh]

@@ailivac my wireless 10W charger connected to an 18W brick +5V Bluetooth thing is enough to make the car take longer to ingnite the engine if I was using it on the previous ride. But your car's alternator may be beefier

[@ailivac]

@@AJ-wf1vh a nice thing about hybrids is that the 12V system doesn't actually crank the engine, it just needs enough power to close the traction battery contactors. if the 12V system is dead you could probably jump it with a 9V (OK maybe not quite, but a small 3S 18650 pack, through a diode of course, is definitely enough)

[@vinylscratch8857]

Thank you Lois, this explains why my phone was randomly stopping the charge progress in the middle of the night or charging so slowly

[@justinrowan4539]

Remember when the future seemed cool rather than depressing?

[@Fred-mv8fx]

I remember reading about some difficulty sourcing chips that enable the USB-C PD standard to negotiate power correctly a while back, and I wonder if that's what is going on here. USB C (the standard) and its power delivery part are written to require backward compatibility so the default should almost always be 5V 1A or 5V 2A (whatever the base power requirement is) which can be negotiated up via the USB-PD protocol. A few years ago, I'd read about issues with chips implementing the USB PD protocol to negotiate the higher power. Normally I'd expect those shortcomings to have been resolved by now, but with COVID and the resulting supply chain jam, I suspect it may have become worse due to the availability of quality components causing them to be replaced by lower quality more available components that claim to do the job but fail in certain applications like the ones you're demonstrating here, especially if the devices you're demonstrating have fast-charging capability.

[@timbelson9522]

The frustration made me go out of my way to purchase the separate official 25w brick and cable from Samsung for my s22ultra since after 2mnths it had to be warranty repair due to fault on motherboard concerning 45w charging causing phone to stop and crash once 70%, thanks for no brick included with phone and this isnt my 1st encounter in telecommunications with this kind of example. Great video Louis

[@chickenpasta7359]

Even though USB C is a really obtuse and confusing standard, I still love the convenience of having one cable and high watt brick (mostly, come on Apple, it's time for a USB C phone).

[@instaSHINOBI]

So you want Apple to break away from its certified standard that works fine and move over to a new connector where almost no one can get consistent and proper charging experience?

[@4aasdaw]

@@instaSHINOBI If Apple chargers work on Apple phones, and non-Apple chargers may or may not work on Apple phones, even if it is via USB-C, how will it be any different than it is now?

[@GrumsPlace]

Apple will go out of its way to make their phone only work with their USB-C charger and that charger will "not" work on any other device even though supposedly USB-C is a standard apple will find a way to screw around with it.

[@AlexanderChilds]

Excellent demo for users to see. It's really helpful for everyone to understand that this can happen, and thus is very important to use the charger that comes with your device OR use the charger that's approved by the manufacturer of the device (among other reasons such as smarter tech inside the bricks that can help not overcharge your device or kill the battery, or light your house on fire). Another important distinction to make, as I believe is the actual case, is USB-C (or USB Type-C), is indicating the connector, not the actual standard. Thunderbolt doesn't reference the connector, because it uses USB-C as its connection, but the tech behind it is what it's referencing. Similar to USB-A and USB-B, USB-Mini B, and USB-Micro B, as well as the 3.0/3.1/3.2 gen whatever variants (another rant), it's just the shape and size of the port. As you mention, there are differences between the actual tech behind the port, which enables certain stuff. On laptops, this can be thunderbolt, display output, as well as power delivery and charging. Just because the port is the same, and it fits, doesn't mean it will work. Do I agree with this whole thing? No. I feel that there should be more adequate remarks regarding this, and stricter standards to adhere to for the USB conglomerate. To be USB-certified, you must adhere to these standards, and if you mark your device as USB-certified, and you are not, then you are sought-after legally (however that works with international law). That said, chargers should be chargers, should be chargers. You buy one, it should adhere to one single standard (at least) so it works across all devices. The only difference, if any, should be power and current output, which would determine charging time of the device. This whole, "You have to use our product" defeats the purpose of "We use USB-C, so you can use our charger with anything USB-C! ReDuCe E-wAsTe!" as demonstrated in your video. This way, as you mention, if it is a charger, and fits USB-C, and can deliver the amount of power required by the device, it will charge the device (a phone charger will not charge a laptop, but a laptop charger will charge a phone) as determined by the power negotiations now in play within devices. Cables, on the other hand, should be clearly marked (as I believe they are already, for the most part) as "Charging only", "Sync and Charge", or "Sync only" (if there is such a cable) to ensure the consumer is aware that the cable is specifically for one (or multiple) purposes. Along with the purpose of the cable, the actual speed should be clearly marked (find any rant on labels of 3.0/3.1/3.2 and insert here) in Mbps/Gbps, so regardless of the trashy naming convention that can change, the speed will be there for the consumer to physically see (I believe some do this, while others still on the shelf use "3.0" or "3.1 gen 1" while those have already been antiquated; yet others use "5x faster!" or some other marketing gimmick). Include this info (and clearly comment on full port capabilities, such as display including hdmi and displayport info, charging, power delivery, thunderbolt, etc) in the software of the system you use, as well as the documentation, and you can avoid a lot of other confusion. Unfortunately, we just have to keep complaining until the standard is set... we don't have other options. USB is basically the monopoly on IO.

[@zrider100z]

In my experience (EU, Poland) every charger that has USB port is compatible with every device no matter if it's micro usb, lightning or USB-C. I haven't tried it with laptops, I highly suspect that it would not have enough power. Although I managed to use my cheap brand USB-C to power and send video to a monitor which was strange because my boss had an expressive cable that couldn't achieve the same result

[@Rob2]

You will find that an older / less powerful charger will not work at all with a laptop. It will not even trickle charge it. That is because the laptop requests 20V and the charger can provide only 5 and 9 volt, i.e. not the voltage the laptop batteries have, and it cannot charge it at all. However, the charger that comes with the laptop can charge everything else, because when it can provide 20V it also can provide the lower voltages requested by other devices.

[@zrider100z]

@@Rob2 Louis himself has shown in this video we are taking under that laptop charger might refuse to charge some of the devices. I said in my comment that my phone charger would not have enough power. Even if it was able to supply 20v it still needs to have enough power to be able to power the device. On Android for instance there's even a prompt saying "your phone is using more energy than the charger provides". The fact that a charger can supply 20v doesn't mean that it can provide any other voltage. You might get that idea by thinking about "why are there different chargers for different voltages instead of one for every possible" and also by trying to connect a 12v battery to a 3v circuit.

[@Rob2]

@@zrider100z Your ideas stem from the old days when chargers had a fixed voltage that should match the device. This is not true for USB-C PD. Any USB-C PD charger can supply voltages between 5V and some maximum determined indirectly by the power of the charger. A charger for a laptop can charge a 5V device. But a 5V or 9V charger cannot charge a laptop. When it is powered off it should not matter what the power consumption is, it would still be able to slowly charge the battery. Of course some manufacturers (mainly of equipment like that air pump, in lesser extend manufacturers of chargers) sometimes cut corners and release devices that are not USB-C PD compatible, still suggest that they are. But unless you shop only at Wish or Aliexpress, you should not encounter them too frequently.

[@imicca]

At my workplace we are not permitted to charge our USBC laptops with other than given USBC charger that comes in the box with laptop (lenovo). Someone managed to “fry” laptop (either port or some board) and insurance did not cover as they used iPad USBC charger. Lenovo later confirmed to our IT team that their laptops should not be charged with other USBCs.

[@NickMarcha]

I've always thought of it as a cable connector standard, not a charger standard. Most devices will recommend you not to use 3rd party chargers anyways.

[@derekp6636]

whats the point then of having a universal standard? if each device needs a brand specific charger...

[@Right-Is-Right]

yes, most companies recommend you pay them for replacement parts, not just chargers, then charge a premium rate. Does not mean it is better for the consumers wallet, it is better for the companies botton line.

[@NickMarcha]

@@derekp6636 they recommend not using third party chargers because most people can't figure out the difference between chargers. Case and point this video. I believe part of the standard makes cables removable from the charger. So things are definitely better then they used to be.

[@NickMarcha]

@@Right-Is-Right I'm not advocating for paying premium for 1st party replacements. I'm saying everyone should already be aware that chargers are not interchangeable. You can figure out which chargers work with what devices by doing some research.

[@perwestermark8920]

The "not use 3part" text in a huge amount of manuals is just stupidities that actually means "make sure you buy from us for the only reason we desperately wants your money". There are a few number of devices out there that are incorrectly designed, making them not following any established standard. Manufacturers that refuses to verify their equipment follows proper standards should be allowed to go bankrupt.

[@matjazwalland903]

I understand the frostration over the usb-c standard. From what I can see, you have two adapters with usb-c to usb-c connection and one with usb-A to usb-C. The last combination worked on all devices because it has a limit on the maximum power it can put through the cable. The others have an integrated chip for distributing electricity across several connectors, and if the recipient does not have the correct receiving chip, there is no electricity transfer. The layout of the pins on the usb-c connector can be changed, the shape is standardized and the maximum flow power through 4 wires is 15W. If you have any old cables, cut them and you will find out what is happening.

[@wm2008]

Its actually 100W (20V/5A), also using only 4 pins.

[@calvinteh3297]

Conclusion: Samsung S20 charger is the best.

[@1untamedone]

It has always been this way with usb. Really old devices required the data portion of usb to be connected and do a host negotiation to charge as that was the standard (for example, PS3 controllers and PDAs). The EU standardized 5v plug on appliances to use usb cables to reduce waste. A bunch of companies started making dumb chargers and cables with just the power pins wired and allowing non-standard charging. Then when usb-c came around every company wanted their own quick charge standard and speed upgrades which is why it is so fragmented today.

[@benjewmin2]

I love you ok bye

[@badhabits2958]

That's a medical grade HDMI, I mean USB-C.

[@zaq_hack4987]

The USB-C standard allows for negotiation of the voltage/amperage available to the device. So, I do understand the frustration that if the specs are close, you would think it would negotiate to successfully charge the device. But I think it is important to note that making the port replaceable is still a nice touch over proprietary connectors ... even if that vendor is winking int he background with custom energy negotiation.

[@ChristopherBergsten]

Get a charger that is strong enough for all items you have, and only invest in items that don't fry. Easy win. But we already knew the USB-C is just really the fitting, not the power itself.

[@aterack833]

Quickest way to make someone think their air mattress pump is faulty, lmao

[@lost4468yt]

Eh. We're getting there slowly. Things are about a thousand times better today than they were several years ago. I bought a 100W USB-PD charger and it has worked fine with just about everything. There's a few very very specific older devices that need USB-A to C, but the only one I still commonly used is the Miniware TS80 (not TS80p unfortunately, but I love this soldering pen). And to fix the TS80 issue what I did was buy one of those cheap 12-30V or something buck converters to USB-A, the ones with QC 3.0 included. Then I also bought one of those USB-C USB PD trigger boards and set it to 20V. I just glued both PCBs together then connected the output of the trigger to the input of the buck converter. It makes a great little adapter for powering the TS80 from my PD ports. It's already pretty small, but if someone wanted to I bet they could make this much smaller, and get rid of the USB-C and USB-A connectors to just turn it into a single directional USB-C to USB-C for powering older devices that want USB-A on one side. Those USB PD triggers are also brilliant for TS100 USB power or conversion. Outside of the TS80 though pretty much every phone, speaker, battery, wireless charger, etc that I've used has worked fine.

[@dfec1391]

My take is that the company is using a universal charging port. If their universal design fails for my chargers, the company's device is defective and I want my money back. That said, I am okay if they call out limitations like "requires a charger that provides 45watt minimum" or "requires charger with 20v output" in their documentation. I also make sure my chargers have 20v, 15v, 9v, and 5v outputs. Additionally, I will not touch any device that is usb-c, but using a custom protocol - saving a couple dollars on a cheap product is not worth accidentally killing my phone or laptop.

[@cutterboard4144]

Old saying: "The nice thing with standards is that you can have so many of them." I think i got that from a little booklet named "Murphys law and Computers" (or so) from 30 years ago. Back then IBM compatible parallel ports were a thing, mostly when the were just not compatible enough for your printer.

[@felixreln9382]

Air pump and Pixel case are incompliant devices. Air pump is missing 5.1KOhm resistors on CC pins to indicate it is receiving power, not sending. It only works with USB-A to USB-C cables, not with USB-C to USB-C. This incompliance is sadly still very common among manufacturers. Legacy design reference to micro-USB is what causes this most of the time. Pixel case most likely has single resistor for both CC pins, instead of individuals ones, making it incompliant with e-marker(read "above 60W") cables. Both are spec violations, and manufacturers are to blame here, primarily. Though USB spec authors could improve making specs easier to understand and follow.

[@FD_Fan]

I’d love a deeper dive into the what the differences between these chargers are. Thanks! Is it just chips or what.

[@arakwar]

THANKS FOR THAT VIDEO! I've called crazy for telling people that the USB-c plug is acomplete mess and you can't trust the form factor to decide if something is compatible or not, and that it's completly wack. People usually tells me that "usb is usb and it's ok as long as it can plug in". ffs.

[@acdimalev8405]

I have a few USB-C PD devices around the house now. They all work with my two primary chargers, but almost none of them work with each other's chargers. Also have a few devices with quick charge, but USB-C ports, which I keep a pile of USB-C to USB-A adaptors to charge.

[@dimag4499]

It's worth mentioning some cables may cause issues too. In particular cheap cables paired with high-power chargers, although it *is* up to the charger to make the correct decision not to fry the poor cable.

[@SeanLavery]

Thank you!!!!!! I literally thought I brought a broken device because it wouldn't charge from a high watt USBC charger. My phone would and most other devices I had. Really frustrating, because I now gotta bring multiple chargers around with me instead of one charger.

[@cobrag0318]

My understanding is that it's not just simply applying 5v till the device stops taking it after fully charged. There's apparently handshaking where the device and the charger negotiate protocols and determine how fast both the device and charger can charge. That's why you could use your old iPhone charger and plug in a micro USB cord into it and it will charge, albeit "charging slowly". The devices failed to agree on protocol, so they fell back to a minimal fail-safe. The devices have to go "do you support turbo charging" and the other respond with "yes, bring it" or "no. Maybe fast charging?" Usb-c standard in my recollection is about the physical part of things. Has to be a port and connector capable of this power output, and able to take plugging and unplugging x number of times, and be physically and electronically interchangeable. But it doesn't specify negotiation of charging protocols. So plugging in my phone, with a usb-c connector into someone else's charger would fail the 2+ amp turbo charging handshake as referenced above, but likely pass the more standard 1+ amp fast charging handshake most androids understand. And I can try an older iPhone charger and it'll fail both, but then will accept legacy .5 amp slow charging as a fallback. Likewise, my charger will not turbocharge a phone that likewise fails that handshake. At least if my understanding is correct.

[@rishabhpahwa]

I have the exact same issue and it’s very frustrating, in simple terms many things I own will only charge with old usb A to usb C chargers and not type C to C ones, glad someone else noticed.

[@pompeymonkey3271]

"The great thing about standards is that you have so many to chose from", unknown origin, but true. BTW, I really appreciate your stance against the "not owning your own device" BS. :)

[@old-wise-one4473]

Yep! A messed up Standard! Louis you didn't even get into the messed up cables either. Earlier cables often won't work on newer gear and some are not fully wired! Or if they are they are not using the thicker wire on the power lines so quick charging won't work. Basically, a similar mess we had with old DB25 serial line cables and even DB9 cables which converted to DB25. I often had to rewire them to get something to work. Here that's just not possible as the connectors are too small and sealed. Sometimes its better to just have different standards for power from data.

[@xiaobaozha]

Thank you for this! Just bought a Noco GBX45 and encountered this issue. A couple of USB chargers would not work but my usb C power line from my laptop docking station worked perfectly 🤔

[@v2joecr]

My understanding is that some manufacturers are skipping out on the resistors that will tell the charger what voltage & amperage to send which causes some chargers to refuse to charge those devices.

[@y_zass]

This is due to the charging blocks, not the USB C spec or cables themselves. Some stuff is configured for different amps/volts and doesn't match up well.

[@musigbier3656]

As an Android user over in Europe, I have about a metric ton of devices that are all charged by either USB-C or micro. Some (smaller) chargers and notably some cables don't charge all devices. Notably my iPad-Pro is the pickiest USB-C device I have. Still a variety of chargers can charge all my USB-C devices. The Dell one from the XPS never let me down and is fastest...

[@AC3handle]

well...shit. At least I learned something valuable today. This explains why some devices weren't charging properly when I plugged them in. The worst charging/data transfer cable I ever got was one of those 6 footers you get at the store.

[@Voyajer.]

I haven't had any issues with my Anker brick I use for my laptop, phone, tablet, battery bank, usb soldering iron (ts80), electric screwdriver (wowstick mini), and whatever other miscellaneous devices I can't think of and homemade electronics that have a USB C connector.

[@zadinal]

Wow, I was totally unaware of this. My Gen1 Pixel charger basically worked on everything I tried it on(all of my phones, all of my headphone charging cases, my switch) I never realized there were so many incompatibilities, that blows! Still like it more than lightning though.

[@2001pulsar]

Great demonstration. You should do one for USB-C cables too

[@ostrichbean]

I was confused when 2 usb-c flashlights would not charge from an iPad charger. I thought it was a problem with the cable and a slightly recessed port in the flashlights. I got a USB A to C cable and use that now. I didn’t realise before watching this video that not all chargers and low power devices are compatible so thanks.

[@marcradermacher6244]

Yes, a few month ago we also returned a similar pump because it wouldn't charge. I'd never thought that these devices would be so picky regarding their chargers.

[@Aloha_XERO]

You’re not alone with this frustration brother

[@tehpanda64]

some chargers have specs about what different voltages and amps it can output, I am am no electron surgeon but I think some of the chargers just don't got the circuits to output a low enough power to charge a device slow enough for the battery bank and the air mattress pump. I have to assume that whatever switching they do is almost always done on the charger side after talking to the device side charge IC rather than using switching in the device itself to regulate the power because that would probably generate a lot of heat on the device side and damage the battery without proper cooling. I assume.

[@HiTeckGrenwick]

It was quite difficult to find a multi-port universal charger that supported all the devices I travel with. The most difficult device to find support for was the Nintendo Switch dock. The first multi-port charger I tried (Baseus) supported everything but whenever I connected a device it disconnected everything while detecting voltage support for the newly connected device. I ended up with a Ravpower charger, which I thought was interesting given Amazon deemed to remove them to 'protect consumers'. The number of chargers with different specs on their store listing from their manuals was a little alarming. Only recommendation I have is lookup the charger manuals and check peak watts and all voltage/amp support.

[@QoraxAudio]

The standardization is just about the physical standards only, so that are the dimensions, so that the connector fits and the voltages, so that it won't blow up stuff. But many devices also require additional charging signals that aren't standardized.

[@bleack8701]

4 different cables and 2 devices. Never had any issues. Even checked if the devices charge at proper speeds with the different cables and they did.

[@eugenebabkin9232]

Well, somehow have been using different USB-C devices while interchanging their power adaptors and so far they were "compatible". Thank you for the heads-up!

[@chrispartosbro4555]

Have you tried flipping the connector 180°? yeah i know it's the same wiring! but some cheaper wires only work one way round, It bugs me the number of designs of charge port fitting there is, all micro usb but some mount through hole, some surface, some have long pins, some barely protrude the socket, some have center ground plates, some on the top near the socket, some near the pins, it's a right mess.

[@alexandervandermerwe]

Same issue with several wireless charging hubs. Some don't come with a charger, leaving quite a challenge for the end user to find the right magical charger cable combo that will work.

[@garylargent8557]

Sad part is i noticed this already and assumed there was a charger issue. Thanks for the info!!

[@Graciashauf]

Oh Louis, sometimes they'll even work but only in a trickle charge mode. Why i invested in USB cables with LED wattage readouts :) takes out the guess work. So i KNOW if my device is charging as fast as it should as well.

[@hornbaker]

You should see if results follow the cable… Raspberry Pi 4 had a defect in the first rev where the signature resistors were configured incorrectly for USB-C. It would work with their power bricks, of course, but not with an Apple USB-C charger. The fix for the Apple charger was to use a cheap non-MFC (?) cable which did not allow data handshaking, and then the charger would work. With a fully-capable / compliant charger & cable, the charger could see that the Pi4 was not negotiating properly and would not energize.

[@GrandpaBaner]

All EU lawmakers should be required to watch this.

[@dragoscucu3128]

A compliant Type C device should provide appropriate resistors on CC1 and CC2 pins, but most cheap devices that need 5V don't have these resistors. For travel, I use a 65W charger with both USB A and USB type C ports.

[@pranav2369]

It's not just the charger but also the cables. Gen 1 vsgen 2; 3.0 vs 2.0; different PD ratings. And even if you figure out all of these, half the cables on the market don't show the complete specs or just incorrect specs. So you have to find a cable that advertises all the specs correctly and then HOPE that the connector is correctly sized to actually completely insert into the device, despite the same USB C standard. Had to buy a cable for my USB C dock. And despite being fairly tech aware had a nightmare of time finding one. Oh and the best part was that only then I realised that the USB C 3.0 can create wireless interference for 2.4 Ghz devices plugged in the same dock. So now I need to get a new extension cable. "Standard" connector my hairy bottoms!

[@wdmfan]

In 90's adapters were standardised according to pencil cell. In 2000's adapters were standardised according to USB. In 2020's everything's going haywire with different 'V'olt & 'A'mp combinations + chipset requirement on both ends. They should release some standardization of USB C. (Like the metric system)