Using Fear to Control and Manipulate - S01E28

[@Bravoechotangohotel]

Thank you so much for this podcast, I'm working my way through them all. I grew up UPC and dipped in college with zero intentions of returning (agnostic) but life got crazy and God showed me he exists and he loves me. I'm a PK and I know my fam wants me back in the UPC but I've been struggling bc I cannot abide the "us and only us" mindset, never mind the tongues thing. I wanted to share that I prayed this morning that God would show me what I need to do to be right with him, through the word, even if I don't like it and it takes time for me to obey. I read the book of Galatians and he answered prayer! He gave me chapter 5 and I realized you are right, HE SPEAKS TO US THROUGH HIS WORD. Finally after years of never being good enough, I realize that was all smoke and mirrors. God loves me and I may not be good enough on a base human level but through him and his GRACE I am saved and washed clean. Not through dotting the I and crossing the t! I am not simply listening and believing, I am reading and searching for myself. THANK YOU for being open and honest, I am thankful I am not alone.

[@katieisk]

I am binge listening to all of your podcast episodes! I grew up in a very legalistic pentecostal church and everything you say resonates with me. A lot of the topics you talk about remind me of another podcast called Theocast. They talk about law vs. gospel distinction and resting in Christ and it's so refreshing to hear you make some of the same points.

[@justinandtiffany]

We will have to check Theocast out. We are so glad you joined us as a listener. We definitely want to help people get free from the legalistic church. Thank you so much for watching/listening, and sharing!

[@Anthonygaddy95]

I love your podcast! Recently, I've been questioning things from my WPF church in California because I feel like nothing is changing and the drama in Pentecostal churches is everywhere and annoying. I am tired of the same things every year. I don't feel like I'm growing, I am confused and lost. I was raised in this so it’s all I know and I only hangout with people from the church so like you guys said it’s hard to leave because I don’t really have friends outside of the “WPF community!”

[@justinandtiffany]

Thank you for watching and sharing! We understand exactly where you are at, knowing and feeling something isn’t right, but it’s all you know. It makes any sort of decision pretty difficult. We will be praying that God will help you to know what to do.

[@Luckypanda77]

As a kid growing up in this, I was always so scared about missing the rapture. I would get triggered every time thunder cracked or I heard a loud train horn blast, scared out of my mind that I missed the rapture and that I was lost. At night, I had to get up and go to my parents’ bedroom to see if they were still there whenever I heard those sounds it scared me so bad. This followed me into adulthood and it’s hard sometimes not to be triggered when I hear those sounds as I try to remind myself it’s just a train or whatever the sound is.

[@SmolTrailer]

Not to mention the nightmares! I don't know about you but as a child I had nightmares almost every night. My pastor at that time loved very graphic descriptions of the end times, hell, people who died as a result of their sins (drowning in vomit - a drunk, STDs - a girl who had premarital relations with a stranger _once_, being eaten alive by ants - a boy who left church early when the pastor was begging him to stay from the pulpit, getting scalped by a machine - a girl who was questioning her faith) and descriptions of martyrdom by past people or by people in other countries. We didn't have a tv so these kinds of stories were very graphic for me. 😢

[@justinandtiffany]

My (Tiff) experience was exactly the same as a kid. It plagued my rest, sleep, and nights. Triggered is a good word for being an adult, and even if it's fleeting, still having moments of "terror". This just makes me so sad for the kids that are still in it 😢

[@justinandtiffany]

This is horrific. And so relatable. Thank you for sharing. These are real things that happened to real people. So unfair as children and SOOO not biblical teaching. Ugh...

[@iw9338]

The level of manipulation is mind boggling 😮😊. Thanks for speaking on this nonsense 🙏💜

[@justinandtiffany]

Thank you for watching/listening!

[@mandis.2079]

I've left the UPCI when i realized they tried to control me by telling me God said you need to do this or do that. I knew they were wrong and the "pastor" was wrong. I didn't have a voice, they didn't like me questioning things, and hated that i had my own mind. I was always in trouble for asking questions. Not only that, they knew my parents were abusive and they did NOTHING!! They just added to my trauma!! I'm truly thankful for you two revealing the truth about their foundations!! I pray that God continues to bless you both!! ❤

[@justinandtiffany]

We are so sorry this happened to you! We should never be in trouble for asking questions. God gave us inquisitive minds, and we really shouldn't be ignoring them. We pray that you have been able to find healing in some way. Thank you for watching/listening, and thank you so much for sharing! ❤️

[@sarahcottrell3618]

When people start in with the fear dogma, it's like they are saying God is not enough, His love and Grace are not enough. They have to scare you into church, scare you to the alter. It may work for a time, but it won't keep you...

[@justinandtiffany]

💯💯💯

[@mjklmk]

They preach alot of fear and separation of people.god loves everyone .

[@justinandtiffany]

Amen, He does! It's so anti-Christ to put fear on people.

[@TigerJohnson-t8g]

Thank you for another great message!!

[@justinandtiffany]

Thanks for watching/listening!

[@lissaansley3028]

Thank you for another masterpiece! I really enjoyed tuning in on my birthday 🎉

[@justinandtiffany]

Thank you for tuning in! And happy birthday!! 🎉🎁🎂🎈 we hope you have a wonderful and special day!! ❤️

[@iw9338]

Thank you very much for reading the scriptures. It it really helpful.❤🙏

[@ChristopherChavez]

I just want to quickly point out that a lot of this "doom and gloom" style of preaching isn't just for a quick and easy "conversion" (visitors running to the altar and getting baptized), but it's also a method of control. For those who are believers, it scares them into adhering to core UPCI doctrines like holiness standards or - God forbid - doubting their teachings on anything. A lot of the time, the people running to the altar are people who've already bought into UPCI teachings (ie, those are already "saved"), but they maybe kissed their bf, or watched the latest Minions movie at the theater, or *shudders* played worldly music in their car. Just another clever form of manipulation.

[@lissaansley3028]

Good morning Tiff and Justin!

[@justinandtiffany]

Good morning!! ☀️

[@matthewshermoen4437]

Another great episode you two! Interestingly enough, you spoke about biblical giving last week and my pastor preached on biblical giving this week! He said he had that sermon prepared for a year but God didn't want him to preach it until yeaterday.

[@justinandtiffany]

Thank you, Matthew! We have noticed some timely things happen surrounding our episode topics as well. It's funny how God works. Thanks for sharing!

[@murrayritter]

What Pastors do you listen to? I’m trying to get out, but my husband is having a hard time because the upc church we are in right now is so much nicer compared to the UPCI church we were in for 32 years that was horrible. It’s so hard to know where to turn. I have a friend coming with me the past year and I have to figure out how to help her. She said she would go wherever we go, but I’m still in that stage of not knowing where else to attend. Thanks for your podcast!

[@justinandtiffany]

Well it looks different for each of us, and only we can decide what is best for us, our families, and our children. If you shoot us an email (found in our descriptions), we will send you a list of resources that use biblical exegesis to divide scripture, and that was very helpful to us during this part of our journey. We will be praying for you and your husband during this time. It can be difficult to make any decision that you know will have long-lasting effects.

[@murrayritter]

@@justinandtiffany Thank you! Will do!

[@JohnMChew]

They aren't just preaching to people who are already saved. There could be people there who are on the verge of going completely off the rails,and need to be shaken, to come forward to repent. I would be affraid of church that made itvseem like I could live any kind of way without spiritual consequences. The rapture is so near,I would want to be in repentance all the time. Dealing with flesh is particularly difficult for young single people whos hormones high and they aren't married.

[@bigtobacco1098]

No rapture... it was invented in the 1800's

[@hopalrichards5255]

Sexual desires are not the ultimate struggle with flesh. Young, old and middle age struggle with the flesh as we are all human. Marriage is also not the solution for strong desires, people without self control will live immorally as well. What we do need is the grace of God and his spirit to continually work in our lives

[@thegardenflorist]

Hi, how do i get in touch to ask a question?

[@justinandtiffany]

justinandtiff (at) icloud.com

[@murrayritter]

I absolutely can’t stand the altar calls!