Using Science to Determine Whether Cains or Abels are Better

[@topazlight1586]

The funniest thing about Stahl's death not really costing you anything is that Awakening is one of the games that auto-deposits a fallen unit's inventory into the convoy, so you don't even lose his Bronze Sword

[@DaniDoyle]

Actually, on his joint chapter you do lose the bronze sword because you don't get the convoy until the next chapter and any items on units who died before you get the convoy do get lost forever

[@topazlight1586]

@@DaniDoyle Wait, really? Huh. The more you know.

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

@@DaniDoyle Save him for one chapter. Got it.

[@DraculOkeanos]

@@DaniDoyle I recently did a challenge run of All Swordmasters of Awakening, where only characters that are legal are ones that can be Swordmasters, and they must be reclassed to Swordmaster as soon as possible. Both Sully and Stahl have access to the myrmidon line, and both were legal. While ranking up Sully's sword rank early on was a little annoying, she was consistently one of the best units in my run, and Lucina and Kjelle, her daughters, were also very solid. Stahl...existed? He was just Worse as a unit than Sully basically all the time, and never really moved above 'well he exists and i have a slot to deploy him'

[@Hyralc]

Interestingly, if you just keep with the christmas CAV part, it does swap to a 7-6 win for green. For whatever that's worth

[@Keon994]

Maybe Alm and Celica are the Christmas lords?

[@Hiiyapow]

Alright, I'll step up to defend Stahl here: So, Sully's 2 speed lead lets her avoid some early ORKOs. That's true. However, it's also true that she has to trade off her bronze lance in c2 or she gets OHKOed by the barbs. On lunatic+, luna+ barbs oneshot her, wheras Stahl is able to facetank them and survive. Stahl also only needs 1 speed to not be doubled by soldiers in c2 and archers in c3. He needs two speed to not be doubled by soldiers in c3. +3 will keep him safe from the mercs. In c2, what that means is if Sully pairs with him, he's safe from everything that isn't a merc. So Sully is only a better combatant than him vs the mercs (of which there aren't as many as everything else). In c3, he could once again take Sully, or just borrow Sumia for a turn or two if he needs to fight a merc for whatever reason. While the javelin is great, you already have lots of people who can use it. Namely Frederick, who is so good with the jav that no on else really needs to use it at all as he will ORKO masses of enemies with it. On lunatic+, it's far better and more consistent to avoid counter by instead circle camping the entire map which will have Fred do pretty much all the javelining. Meanwhile, Stahl gets to have better swords earlier, while still being able to achieve D lances by c7 which is when the next javelin shows up (because Fred is going to be spamming it in c4, p1 and c5 until it breaks). Outside of c2 and c3, plegia is chock full of axes and Stahl is able to pull a stronger WTA against them than Sully is- not only through a stronger weapon, but a higher weapon rank, as the higher your weapon rank in awakening, the better your weapon triangle bonus, allowing him to have much better survivability vs barbs and wyverns, especially when taking into consideration his bulk lead. In fact, lance rank and 2 speed are pretty much Sully's entire lead over Stahl (and a 10% speed growth), whereas Stahl leads a point of Str, a point of Def, 2 points of HP, then 10% growth in HP and Str and a 15% growth in Def. This gives Stahl overall a much better stat spread than Sully and combined with his sword advantage, gives a considerable combat lead to Stahl. But I'm still not finished! While Sully has great supports with Kellam, Vaike, and Chrom, Stahl also has some good supports. Notably, Stahl is also able to support with Kellam, granting him the exact same bonuses that Sully would get from him, except, of course, his higher bulk profile allows him to be even tankier with Kellam's +6 Def at C support. Stahl can, of course, also support with Sully herself, which, while not an advantage for Stahl, is an option for him so he's not completely out of friends. He's also able to still pair with some people earlygame even if he isn't going to generate a support, if it's just a temporary measure. If someone like Sumia is your best pair at that moment, they're your best pair. Stahl is also able to support Panne, being the perfect "backup unit" for her, as he pushes all of her stats just over the edge to where she becomes an extremely solid combat unit right out of the box on lunatic. He also has Cordelia as an option to support himself as he'll be wanting +speed and +res with his stat spread being the way it it. Or, he could take Panne to support himself with her extremely useful +Strength +Speed pairup. Sully can use neither of these. So what are you waiting for, go out there and use Stahl! Awakening's better cav!

[@stomachache6478]

I don’t know if I have some sort of inner spiritual connection to Stahl in Awakening but every time I play it, Sully gets Jack shit for strength and defense/resistance, while Stahl literally turns into a stall against any physical foe with his strength and defense growths …that, or it’s maybe the fact that I make sure to make him my most powerful unit for all my runs

[@Caterwaulin]

It's same situation for me, my Stahl typically gets pretty buff and I leave Sully behind, but I wonder if I just give Sully a chance she'll be good

[@denistuohy2535]

Same, Sully always sucks and Stahl is always reliable

[@BTrainStudio]

This is a sad day for us Green Cavs enjoyers.

[@kirimusse]

Or is it? The main reason why the reds won was because of the last few games, where they aren't even cavs anymore; so red might have won in general, but when it comes to the finer details, green cavaliers reign superior~

[@KWHere2]

@@kirimusse Abel is better than Cain. This is straight facts. Abel is stronger and more accurate, and speed is competitive for the games they are in. Sain is better than Kent. These are facts. Sain's str growth is fucking stupid and everything else is comparable and competitive for the games they are in. None of the others fucking matter. Done.

[@airlock7367]

when you said Sully's gender is an advantage I was all set for it to just be "girls rule, therefore Sully > Stahl", but I'm glad that it's apparently also a mechanical benefit

[@DaniDoyle]

Specifically during the early game, girlpower is real power

[@weepingdalek2568]

​@DaniDoyle When it comes to the Christmas "Cavs" girl power is real power too, all the girls are better than their male counterparts Come on FE, give us an all female Christmas "Cav" squad already

[@weepingdalek2568]

@jaydenroberts2615 Sain is def better than Isadora, not to even mention Marcus and Lowen but I was specifically referring to Christmas Cavs there, which does not include Isadora

[@KeitaroHirochi]

@@DaniDoyle Except if you're a mage, then you have to wait for freakin' Ricken for a magical backpack.

[@RoyalWreckingBall]

@@jaydenroberts2615 Isadora absolutely does not edge out Kent, and Kent has a legit case for being better than Sain if you skip Lyn mode(he reaches speed benchmarks earlier and has bulk on Sain, though Sain does end up a bit better by the end). If you do Lyn mode, you already have Sain past any of his actual issues in the standard game, and he's either an earlygame monster or on his way to the strongest endgame of the cavs.

[@SleepyDeino]

the final talley looks very fun when you're red-green colorblind. at least i know their faces but lmao

[@SharurFoF]

I don't know about the Kieran > Oscar in FE9 take: - I think you're overstating the irrelevance of non-Titania contributions in the early game - I also think you're overstating the difficulty of raising Oscar to be at least equal to if not better than Kieran by the time Kieran joins (who else are you giving the EXP to?), not least because... - Oscar has earlier access to BEXP - By the time Kieran joins, you have Marcia, and right afterward, Jill, meaning there's more BEXP competition from better units - If you want to stealth clear the prison break, having a promoted Oscar is a huge help, so you might want to invest in him for that if nothing else - Promoted Oscar can immediately use Steel Axes, so Kieran doesn't have much of an edge in terms of weapon types for most of the time that they're both available Oscar is definitely frustratingly weak in the early game offensively (though his bulk is nothing to scoff at). But that's basically true for everyone except Titania. And Kieran without BEXP in his join chapter is kind of underwhelming too. Kieran might outperform Oscar on average but that availability gap is pretty massive. It's hard for me to see that as a clear win for Kieran. I think the best argument for Kieran is Maniac Mode, where Oscar is harder to train, and where Kieran's slight edge in STR and earlier access to (forged) Silver Axes matters a lot more (and where Marcia and Titania legitimately fall off in the lategame). But I'm assuming you're ignoring Maniac Mode for the purposes of this.

[@DaniDoyle]

Ive heard A lot of people say that Karen needs bonus experience, but I just don't find that to be the case. Enemies ate week enough that he can one round or come close to one rounding at base, and keep pace with the rest of your team. As far as Oscar is concerned, it feels like pretty significant favoritism to assume that he's going to be promoted by chapter 10 (prison map) as he would either need a significant bxp dump or quite a bit of grinding to accomplish this. Anyone who you think a ton of bonus experience into will perform well in the early game. Even Soren and Boyd have great combat if you give them a chapter 8 dump. This bxp is much better given to Marcia, even though its 2 chapter later, the long-term payoff is much bigger. As far as stealthing the prison goes, oscar isn't needed for this. Lethe + Titania or Marica + Titania can both accomplish stealth with all chests and recruits in the minimum turns possible (for all recruits/chests) As far as weapon types are concerned, oscar gets steel axe on promotion but again unless we are assuming he gets a massive bonus experience dump he's not going to be promoted at the time that kieran joins. When they both promote Karen will presumably have gained some rank, just through standard use, allowing access to Short Axe, Killer Axe, Silver Axe, and even less important weapons like the Laguz Axe.

[@SharurFoF]

@@DaniDoyle You calling Kieran Karen repeatedly is hilarious :P IMO unless you're playing on Maniac, access to things other than forged Steel Axes doesn't really matter until you can forge Silver Axes (and that doesn't matter all that much outside Maniac either). Stealthing the prison map with just two units is no fun. Stealthing it with more units and killing the boss is where it's at. You also get more BEXP if the prisoners escape (and they need to escape to be recruited in Maniac). And Smiting a Paladin with Mordecai is so satisfying. You for sure need to give Oscar BEXP to promote him by chapter 10, but it's something you can generally do (in addition to promoting Marcia) outside of Maniac, so why not? He's the best candidate for it at that point anyway. But regardless of that, he should be at a similar level to Kieran even if you don't give him any BEXP, unless you give heavy favoritism to one of the foot units. Which means that Kieran needs to outperform Oscar enough for the rest of the game to offset all those chapters he wasn't around for. I won't say that can't happen, but the fact that the game basically turns into the flier show at this point anyway makes it a struggle for him. I do think that if you want to get good performance out of Kieran in Chapter 11, he needs some BEXP. It kind of doesn't matter b/c promoted Marcia kind of trivializes the map anyway, but that's not really an argument in Kieran's favor.

[@MinoriGaming]

I love how the SoV b roll is just you suffering on the zombie boat.

[@altruisticcomputer4706]

6:51 what marrying a cringe growth unit does to a cav 12:05 Alec has the niche utility of being able to keep Sylvia off Lewyn until you marry him to Erinys

[@Olimario34]

​@@projectmessiahif you want to pair Lewyn & Tailtiu it can be difficult since both Sylvia and Erinys have such high base love with him and a big head start. when i was setting up my subs only run Sylvia and Lewyn got married near the beginning of chapter 5 despite playing relatively fast and keeping them away from eachother

[@EmissaryOfSmeagol]

Stahl doesn't pass down a -1 Str mod to his children but he does pass down Luna and Archer(longbow) 😶

[@kimitohanahala8674]

I will always stand that you cannot deploy Allen without deploying Lance, the two dudes just perfectly compliments each other.

[@alecneal602]

This is Oscar slander imo. Titania can't be everywhere, especially in the two early defense maps (one of which has no Shinon and no Gatrie, meaning he's almost certainly getting used in most contexts). I agree with Framme being better than Clanne... but narrowly. Clanne gets easier access to Mage Knight bases, and without the well is in a weird spot where he's most effective when he gets very few levels in the first handful of maps. If that condition is met, he becomes an early SP beast like Alear, but that means more restrictions on how you use him early. Framme has the same issue in theory... but what skill does she need to be a free utility unit, uncontested for a while? Thanks for the video as always!

[@DaniDoyle]

Titania can't be everywhere, but no mao requires her to be, even the defend maps only have one area that needs defending, and Titiania can fairly easily do that on her own. As for Clanne, promotion in Engage doesn't give you class bases, it gives you flat promotion bonuses, but that also requires you to reach level 10 with him, and given engage's exp gain, thats a very tall order (and likely requires not training either Alear or Chloe, both of whom are much better targets for investment. Citrine joining at 10 means if you want a MK, there's an much easier (and statistically better) unit to fulfill that role.

[@DaniDoyle]

Regardless don't get me wrong, I think oscar *should* be used every playthrough, but I still think Kieran is the better unit

[@alecneal602]

@@DaniDoyle This is making me realize I don't know a good resource for Engage promotion data. As for Clanne being outclassed in niche: agreed tbh. I still value being in a great niche relatively high even in outcompeted units personally. We also definitely get into a subjective problem of what good early contributions are worth. HHM Lowen definitely isn't as good as HHM Harken, despite Harken's utility being much more replaceable (for example). But where's the line?

[@RoyalWreckingBall]

Oscar's earlygame value as the second best unit around absolutely beats Kieran being at best the 4th or 5th unit around(with Oscar just behind him) If Titania's level of power means Oscars's earlygame somehow doesn't beat Kieran, then BEXP Falcoknight Marcia(considered optimal) does very similar things to Kieran. In fact, since Marcia will be aggressively taking most early BEXP, Kieran will have less chances to catch Oscar thanks to that as well. There is no real case for Kieran over Oscar. Their stat differences are nowhere near big enough(both are really good) and Oscar has a third of the game as the second best unit in the game, while Kieran is never that high. If we only rated late-endgame performance, then maybe. But even then, Kieran's best support partner is Oscar, and Ike's best support is also Oscar.

[@RoyalWreckingBall]

Just want to say I don't mean to be rude, I can be abrasive at times.

[@ing5998]

My reasoning towards this issue is very simple, both cavs are perfectly acceptable and I'll just use whichever ends up growing the best in a given playthrough or both if they're both getting good levels

[@PataHikari]

You forgot a major benefit Oscar gives. He has Earth affinity in the game with the easiest support building in the series. Just a B support with fellow Earth Affinity Ike gives them both an extra 20% evade and they can become absurd dodge tanks.

[@DaniDoyle]

Earth support is so overrated tbh

[@PataHikari]

@@DaniDoyle Perhaps but you not even mentioning it reveals your terrible Ant-Green bias. For shame smh, and I thought this video was Fair and Balanced.

[@wesleyoldham4222]

For a brief, confusing moment, I thought this was a weird Bible video. Abel's offering is better than Cain's, Cain kills Abel out of jealousy, Abel is replaced by Seth, Seth has great stat growths.

[@lizzy532]

Now *this* is how you get me to read the bible.

[@swiftbuizel]

Something important I feel thats worth mentioning about Noish is that he has a huge lead in the arena due to critical. While Noish can win matchups he shouldn't due to a lucky crit, Alec has to rely purely on his stats to get him through which will suck unless he gets lucky with his growths. This results in noishe having more gold and experience than alec which is pretty huge. The mage paladin build is kind of a meme but its probably the best way to handle the cross knights in chapter 3. With one magic proc on either cavalier and a magic ring they one round each one after promo. Both can do this but noishe would need the pursuit ring which might be too much money for him. One other thing Noishe can do for one range combat is use the brave lance with the power ring and that mows down every generic unit in chapter 4 I believe. Tldr green cav alec cringe and red cav Noish is gigachad

[@Estfireemblem]

Noise sycks

[@ness6099]

Honestly the money thing for Noish isn't that big of a deal. There's a lot of villages in the Prologue and Chapter 1, you can easily just fill his wallet since there's no real good target to pile ALL that money onto. -Sigurd is godlike at base -Alec doesn't have anything that benefits him besides the effective weapons and strength/defense rings in Chapters 2 and 3, which if you want him to get you just have him collect/kill for them -Arden gets a 20k influx by selling the Pursuit Ring -Lex spends his money repairing the Brave Axe and funnels the rest to his spouse -Azel peaks until promotion when he gets Thunder and the Magic ring -Finn only wants the speed ring, but whether he gets it or not he has access to the most arena exp/gold in the game -Quan and Ethlyn leave -Midir practically already has enough to afford the killer bow, a few arena rounds and he'll be fine -No other unit has access to the Prologue gold Plus the Thief Sword is available starting in Chapter 2, so no sword unit should really struggle with gold for long. You can also just give him the Bargain ring so 40k gold gets him pursuit and Paragon use for free, even frees up Dew to get Pursuit before promotion whenever he needs and Noish doesn't, and he can just sell it to Ethlyn before Chapter 3 ends and he'll have gotten plenty of money off of obtaining it. You can do the same with the Pursuit ring, but I've never found much use out of Pursuit Leif, as he'll do more and safer with the second Brave Sword Patty gives you. Having Noish hold onto it means you can have other pairings use it, most apparently Forseti Arthur but also Jamke if he's paired with Aideen, Lex Arthur, or whatever you're cooking!

[@Estfireemblem]

@@ness6099 noise is cringe

[@kai_824]

The real strategy is to just not use then cssue they're bothawful besides having a horse

[@yasahana4447]

Fun fact if you switch Catherine and Shamir to cavs, Catherine get's red armor and Shamir get's green. and THAT is a pretty hard argument for two of the most useful 3H units I'm not gonna make. Tear ring and Berwick BOTH give a point to the Red knight tho

[@greenstat1c]

Honestly? I think 90% of the people who say Alec has "poor damage output" didn't use any of the mechanics that you can use to change that. And no, I'm not talking about "Give him the Str ring" what I'm saying is Alec just needs the Steel Sword from his comrade, Noish, to become a far better unit than most give him credit for. The basic calculation is that Alec has 9 str, and gets 10 from the Steel Sword, meaning it's 19 x 2. Compare this, instead, to Quan. Yes, Quan. Quan has a base str of 16, and uses a Steel Lance which has a Might of 16. This is a total of 32 x 1, meaning that on neutral enemies Alec will be dealing more damage until the enemies have 7 defense. "But that doesn't sound like a lot!" I hear you saying. Consider, however, that this is Fe4. Weapon Triangle gives +1 and -1 based on positive or negative. This means that on an enemy with an axe Alec will be dealing 20 x 2, while Quan deals 31 x 1. In this scenario, Alec deals more damage up until enemies have 9 defense. Let me ask you, when was the last time a non-boss enemy in Fe4 had 9 defense? That's right, when they were armored. It just so happens Alec has access to the Armorslayer, which means that he'll be doing more damage as a default. Alec is severely slept on, and I think that's purely because he joins with an Iron Sword which has a pitiful 6 str, putting Alec at 13 x 2, which makes sense as to why people think he has pitiful damage. Alec's strengths, however, come from the fact that he's around at a time when there's no real competition for who to train instead of him. Lex isn't going to double and is better suited at being trained after he gets the Brave Axe, Quan doesn't get Exp, Finn is the same as Alec except he uses Lances which are worse as a rule, Noish doesn't double, etc. By the time you start recruiting folks that can actually keep up, or when Midir gets a non-Iron bow, or when Lex gets his brave axe, Alec will have a higher level advantage that he earns rather than being spoon-fed, and will be able to keep up for the rest of the game in spite of his "mediocre" stats TLDR: Doubling is OP for a reason, Alec is good y'all just don't give him a basic modicum of weaponry.

[@DaniDoyle]

I have, actually, given alec steel weapons. His damage output is still not up to snuff.

[@greenstat1c]

@@DaniDoyle He literally deals more damage than Quan

[@auroraborealis4468]

Smh should have settled this with the REAL scientific method: Hunger Games Simulator.

[@17Master]

I have no horse in this race, but unit analyses are always fun. Agree that the deviations from the Cavalier part of the formula is fun and hope to see more of it.

[@robertm5110]

Actually, if we’re talking cavaliers specifically, green wins with 7 against red’s 6 because the last five listed are not cavaliers. However, if purely by color, then yes red wins.

[@ashleythompson801]

HUGE case of clannder (Clanne slander for the uneducated), he's very bad in his default class but if you put him into mage knight with a levin sword he'll destroy a huge amount of the game super easily. Insane speed growth means he doubles basically everything even with the crazy stat creep on maddening, and since levin swords take advantage of his solid base strength growth and get damage fixing from both their own might and sword power, doubling is going to be enough to one-round most enemies up until the endgame. Much stronger unit than a generic early cleric.

[@RoyalWreckingBall]

That line about Hardin overshadowing both is way off. If you are using both Cain and Abel, they should by all means be matching(or really outclass) Hardin when he shows up, and Hardin can't catch up to them either, since his growths are basically just Cain's, but with 40% less HP. Abel and Cain are way ahead of every other cav in FE1

[@ashdust9832]

i seem to almost always prefer the red cav, yet my green cavs always seem to turn out better for the most part

[@PetraDunamancer]

This is an amazing and totally, completely, no-lie unbiased list.

[@DaniDoyle]

With science!

[@maxyaju4293]

Smh no Sue and Shin for the christmas nomads and Gordin and Norne for the christmas archers smh

[@DaniDoyle]

Shin is black, not green, and Norme/Gordon don't have any relation to each other in either game they appear

[@HappyLuchoX]

WTF? In which world Kieran is better than Oscar? I didn't use Titania (in the end she was level 2) because my tank and serial killer was Ike and the other unit that actually fight = Oscar (Gatrie my support, when he left the team, Oscar turned into a less powerful Ike) He was my first promotion and my 2nd serial killer in the last chapter in the left side (and Boyd in the right). Until now, Titania meens nothing to me only appears when I need more units in the early/mid-game

[@Keiji555]

FE7: I'm a Sain fanboy. I always play Lyn mode, and I take Wallace's Knight Crest, have Sain train against the final boss of her hard mode until he is LV 20, and then I upgrade him into a Paladin.

[@boredomkiller99]

Abel is also better in book 1 of Fe3 also due to that initial speed that let's him doube with sliver slightly earlier then Kain. This is important because having to dismount to use swords defeats half the purpose of cavs since they have to spend a turn with bot tier movement before they can remount and very few things live through two sliver lances snd sliver lances are plentiful

[@gabekuzunohathexvii4872]

12:48 finn has persuit at base actually🤓

[@DaniDoyle]

oh no, I am cringe

[@gabekuzunohathexvii4872]

@@DaniDoyle yes unfrotunally you are no longer welcome on the finn cool club

[@Xavier-po2xw]

"Kane and Alba" Everyone whos played FE 5: WHO AND WHO??????

[@henryreturns1397]

A little late comment here of Oscar vs Kieran on PoR : - Oscar is a very important unit on the early game since only him and Titania have the "Super canto" on attacking and then moving again - Not only that , Oscar is EARTH affinity , which means if you pair him with Ike , you can just fucking "braindead" the early game - While Kieran comes after you rescue him from the prision , Oscar would already be one of your front runners - Not only that , but Oscar on "draft races" is really insane , even better than Jill and Marcia due to how strong he can snowball

[@DaniDoyle]

I think you're pretty vastly overstating Oscar's usefulness in the early game. Super canto is nice, but after chapter 2 his combat's pretty bad. He's a good Target for bonus experience in chapter 8 and if you do that and over level him then he will be quite strong from there out but the same is true of any character at that point, which feels more like the bxp is doing the work than the unit. I also think earth affinity is greatly overrated (especially the oscar Ike pairing since it requires ike on the frontlines and he's really bad)

[@MythrilZenith]

Red cav, green cav, where my yellow bois at? In all seriousness, interesting video. I definitely fall into green cav dominance more often than not, though red cavs in general are still perfectly viable, or when they aren't, the green cavs in that game aren't doing much better.

[@Zyaire286]

I know that this cavalier ain’t yellow or anything but Cecil is the odd cavalier out for Kris’ group in new mystery of the emblem.

[@ShadowOfCicero]

Should we call them Seths?

[@CharlotteMimic]

I love hearing about Awakening because thats the only FE I've played yet :)

[@ElutPesto]

I tend to go green more often than not, but for some reason my Allen is always cracked so he is forever my goat love that guy

[@Dru_Stephan]

It actually could be argued that you do have Christmas Cavs in Engage. Alfred is green due to his green accents (mostly present in his Avenir model), while Amber is your red. As for who's better...probably Amber. He has better build and str, and while Alfred is better in most other stats, the mechanics of Engage put a large focus on player phase and striking first, and Alfred's damage output doesn't scale well.

[@DaniDoyle]

This feels like a huge stretch. Alfred has a blue design, with the only green present being a tiny broach he wears. Additionally, Alfred and Amber do not have any relationship with each other. Clanne and Framme join as a pair, and are distinctly red and green in design.

[@Dru_Stephan]

@@DaniDoyle True enough. But they can support with each other, and it would be another win for the red cavs.

[@ultimateshadow7522]

Objection: Oscar's Support Bonuses are amazing in both games! In Path of Radiance, he can get +30 Avoid from his Support with Ike alone, and that's boosted up to +50 with Ike and Tanith nearby and at A and B Rank respectively. Furthermore, his Support with Ike can be maxed for half the game. Even if that doesn't change your opinion of him, it's worth mentioning.

[@nullpoint3346]

Goth kids, hold the line! Halloween is Hallow!

[@bcaiko]

Wow - I did not expect to hear so many harsh things about Stahl in this video. I so fully preferred him over Sully in my Awakening playthroughs!

[@QuatoPato]

1:30😂 yeah, if killing your sibling means getting along very well then yeah

[@lughemblem]

I killed the fire dragon with Kent and I will not take this slander.

[@P.S.230]

He's not as bad as DaniDoyle said you are incredivalid he's a top 7 unit no lie. (Behind Marcus Sain Lowen Florina and debatably Raven Hawkeye and ninian.)

[@lughemblem]

@@P.S.230 I don't actually care about the Kent slander. I just happened to do this a few days before I watched the video. I favored the f out of him by promoting him in Lyn mode and giving him the Uber Spear.

[@karavalenge]

Didn't see any discourse on Oscar's strongest point in PoR, his Earth affinity and 2 Earth affinity supports, which allow him to become an immortal dodge tank.

[@DaniDoyle]

Oscar's earth affinity is extremely overrated, and neither of his earth supports is a good support option

[@karavalenge]

I still support Kieran over Oscar in that game 100%, just wanted to get your opinion on Oscar's support game. Thanks!@@DaniDoyle

[@benlecoyte322]

My argument for Stahl over Sully is that he is the better character over her and he's just more enjoyable, plus when he snowballs, he really gets going well

[@hectorlackless]

I find funny how the red christmas cavs stomp once they are anything but mounted on a horse

[@TheFlameSlayer]

i feel like sully should be bonus points also considering she is required if you want Kjelle where as stahl could in theory go unmarried

[@Majo_Ellen]

As a certain fish in Spongebob once said: RED TEAM RULES. . .

[@gg_sam7847]

Okay but to be honest there were at least 2 instances of "it gives red team a win so I'll count it" so really it's even

[@hennyzhi2261]

Me listening deeply to the based reasons to use Naoise: "hmmm, yeeesss"... Five Minutes Later: "Why the **** is he a dragon knight" lol Merry Christmas or Festivus for the rest-of-us! Your content always makes me happy and/or laugh.

[@DaniDoyle]

That's randomizers for you lol

[@krishjay526]

YOOOO is that a sea of stars's epic Wheels minigame!?

[@sorryinadvance4]

While I agree the Thracia axe bros arent Cain/Abel, it was wild hearing you say neither were green while showing art of Osian where he is lol (Red Cav Gang btw let's gooooo)

[@DaniDoyle]

Yeah they are Orange and Green, I misspoke

[@AinaFuyuko]

Green cavs enjoyer here (except sain)

[@DarkAuraLord]

Sain is the best one though

[@voltron77]

Sain is best green cav.

[@porpoise8160]

Sea of stars wheel as the intro is crazy

[@DaniDoyle]

That mini game was definitely my favorite part of Sea of Stars

[@bfbbturambar2369]

12:53 I know this is an old video but Finn just has pursuit, so I wouldn't recommend giving him the pursuit ring (Also another small fe4 detail, the cavs can both use the brave lance post-promotion, so after Finn and Quan leave they are one of your best candidates for it and can fix their middling offense)

[@casualjacob776]

I come here for some Christmas cheer just to be reminded that Kyle is dead Cools video. Fun times

[@Error403HRD]

I haven't ONCE supported Miriel with Stahl so the fact that she studies him because he's mediocre is absolutely SENDING ME 😂

[@dixienormus2802]

Late to the party, and its probably been mentioned already, but New Mystery Cain has prologue utility that is almost universal since hes way better than choosing Est instead. Hes bulky enough to engage the enemies of the final prologue without dying, and if he gains a level he can instant promote when he rejoins. He has D rank lances at base so he isnt cursed out of ranged options anymore and he provides a support boost to Catria. Meanwhile, Abel joins 7 chapters later, not counting gaiden chapters, with lowish bases. His stats means he gets one rounded by enemies in his joining chapter at 3 star difficulty and up. He has amazing growths but even fully trained pales compared to Cain, let alone the other many cavaliers you get. It really isnt fair, but thats what you get for betraying Altea for the worst whitewing

[@CidemNK]

I have the worst luck with red cavs, they always get stat screwed. Orange cavs with pink hair on the other hand...

[@boredomkiller99]

A couple things about Alec first he actually gets a good amount of magic on promo which what makes the mage knight style build work. Second in terms of raw investment to make Noish usable, he at minimum needs the pursuit ring which takes it from Lewyn which doesn't matter in efficent play but can in casual and costs 40,000. Even with that he will still need to rush promo or use brave swords to excel. Alec sinde he doesn't need pursuit can just save up for the Paragon and then just hit 20 and switch to light brand or brave lance. You could give a power ring. . Also most units struggle to one round before promo without rings and/or Good weapons or skill procs Noish is overall better is Max invested

[@DaniDoyle]

I mean, Alec gets 5 magic on promo which means combined with the magic ring he has a grand total of 10... AFTER 18 levels. That's not a super impressive offensive stat, even for hitting on resistance. The magic ring, magical sword, and large amount of experience are all a significant amount of investment for a unit who turns out just ok. Noish could also turn out ok if massively over invested in, so i don't really think its an argument in alecs favor, basically any unit can be ok with significant over investment. As a result, I'm much more interested in what they do without investment, and neither is great, but I think Noish's free utility slightly edges out alecs, for the reasons I outlined in the video

[@voltron77]

Honestly, for Allen and Lance, just support them together and use both. Most of the times, my Allen is better in the early game because he can double and is strong enough to kill, but Lance catches up in the mid game when he promotes.

[@jamesweeks2261]

You could have put Byleth and the three red hot-heads (Ferdinand, Sylvain, and Leonie). Although Leonie is probably the closest when you consider the one-sided rivalry and Leonie desire to be a top- tier mercenary making them Christmas mercenaries.

[@envan7865]

Three houses really doesn’t hit the archetype, even if it did, Byleth (Who I presume is green because of the post-chapter 10 hair) would be an automatic victory for green

[@rosheajakob]

me personally i love all cavs equally (except the fe8 ones)

[@DaniDoyle]

You mean you love Makalov as much as Roshea

[@UnderdarkTrans]

Red cavaliers are red, and red makes you go faster. Simple as that

[@ericd1022]

When I played Shadow Dragon I sacrificed Cain at the beginning. Green Cav Supremecy!

[@DaniDoyle]

😭

[@juicyjuustar121]

In all honesty, regardless of the game, I always forget which one is the red cav and which is the green one until I'm actually playing the game Also, in FE1 I killed off one and benched the other. Hardin died too, and so did Jagen. Midia supremacy

[@archermahou8910]

Haven't watched the video yet, but voting for Green. Will come back after watching to see if I'm right. Edit: We lost, but at least we dominated the GBA games!

[@greenstat1c]

It's ok bro we lost because the video maker specifically skewed the results

[@rainingrotom]

This is awesome. I love science. Merry Sciencemas!

[@metalgamer21]

As someone whose first FE was Shadow Dragon I will still stubbornly believe in the green cavs... even though many red cavs are cool too...

[@AbelMusa]

I'll tolerate no blasphemy on my name.

[@empressnemesis]

yes... yes... my preconceived biases scientifically proven correct! today dani granted me every fire emblem fan's dream for christmas

[@SleepyBrady]

Maybe its just me but Kieran has always had a bad unit feel even in POR since he just can't hit shit. I know I should forge an axe with hit to fix it but I can't for the life of me use Kieran over Oscar since I usually feed Oscar a ton of enemy units. Just bad unit feel on a personal level. Overall I like the green cavaliers better but that's just me. Red is a great color too

[@DaniDoyle]

Even without forges, POR Kieran doesn't have hit issues in my experience, regularly having 100% when using iron axes.

[@SleepyBrady]

@@DaniDoyle you know what I should play Path of Radiance again

[@grottosstuff]

I love stacking unethical EXP on Framme

[@niccarooo]

Kinda surprised you didn't mention the reclass options in Awakening/Fates. I understand that you're mostly looking at the units out-the-tin with Lunatic/Lunatic+ in mind, but I think there's another reason why Sully is better than Stahl in there. Kaze and Saizo are kind of the same unit to me, compounded by the fact that they both get samurai access with their cracked skills, but Sully and Stahl are kind of a different case. Sully and Stahl both get myrmidon, but Sully gets the edge by having access to wyvern rider. This is pretty much night and day with Stahl since Stahl gets access to archer, which is pretty much considered to be one of the worst classes, and he has no real synergy with it or its skills in his class set. Sully, however, can fill some good niches if you use her long term. Avo+10 from myrmidon and Tantivy from wyvern is a pretty potent dodge tanking combo since skills that require isolation in awakening don't factor in pair ups. I've had Sully with a speed backpack like Lon'qu get very high dodge rates allowing her to enemy phase with hand axes and javelins, and I think setups like that improve her combat a lot. It does require a lot of second sealing, but the stat bloat in Awakening is borderline expecting you to do so if you're not nostanking or abusing galeforce (which Sully can't, sadly). P.S. Say'ri has access to this skill combo as well WITH galeforce. This isn't really relevant to the christmas cav debate, but it's worth mentioning.

[@DaniDoyle]

I mean, Stahl technically has better reclass options than sully (since Bow Knight > Wyvern, weirdly enough) but neither unit is too affected by their reclass options since the main appeal of the units is their early game (*most* long term units in awakening are remarkably samey, and the cavs are no exception). As for Saizo and Kaze, they mostly don't care about reclassing, since Ninja is where most units want to be, and more to the point they have the same class sets, meaning their things that differentiate them are Stats, Join Time, and Kaze's unfortunate support situation in Birthright.

[@niccarooo]

​@@DaniDoyle I figured as much. Admittedly, I have way more experience w/ Fates than I do with Awakening

[@DaniDoyle]

KZbin flagged this comment as "held for review"...does this mean KZbin is an awakening fan and they want to silence you for preferring fates??

[@SupahTrunks7]

Wait Kent is bad? Either my Kent got blessed or something horrible happened to the growths of whatever the green cavs name is (idk I benched him for falling off.) I was literally expecting you to say that game was an easy win for red cav lmao

[@P.S.230]

Doyle was oddly harsh on Kent. He's like a top 7 unit even without Lyn mode, he doubles earlier while still having good enough strength to 2 shot most enemies. Especially after promotion. He's the worst of the cavalaeirs due to Lowin's good bases and availability and Sains quick strength lead, but He's better then Sain for a portion of the midgame and way better then Lowen lategame.

[@thiagoxavier6737]

I think the Mae and Boey thing is from echoes, because in people's heads Pink is red woman edition (its not, but still) So mae being pink and boey having green clothing was enough

[@user-wk5vh5tk3q]

the thing is, the red cav could get lucky on skill and speed, but will always have the bulk and damage, while the green cav will always cap speed and skill but might get strength and bulk. its easier to make a red cav great because they have the means to do so, but will be good regardless of luck. Green cavs can hit things and hit them fast but if you dont do damage, then there is no point in having excess speed and skill.

[@P.S.230]

Not all the green cavs are faster and have more skill.

[@mopfez9852]

Hot take here but i am the singular stahl fan in existence and imo hes better than sully In my experience neither of them are super good long term both will be outclassed and reduced to chip bots or backpacks unless you do some favoritism With both of them coming to the same end point i find stahl better due to his power of a dad obviously robin outclasses him but everyone is outclassed by him so i say that isnt much a negative they cant marry the whole army at once In my testing i found stahl was one of the best dad for any physical unit he passes down good bases and growths in the stats that matter and passes down paladin and bow knight which are very handy classes to have imo Also completely unrelated but if anyone wants to use stahl in a future run a fun build(needs a fair bit of investment) is to reclass him to archer soon as you can then promote to bow knight asap by time he promotes thanks to the discipline skill he should have A rank in both weapon types

[@Feron0369]

Still gonna use the green ones more, optimization be damned :)

[@tylerferguson3193]

Happy holidays, stay safe out there

[@jonathann.5754]

So boey and mae Mae getting swords is arguably a disadvantage as she has terrible strength and will often do little to no damage in 1 range.

[@DaniDoyle]

What are you talking about? In this game strength and magic are the same stat.

[@jonathann.5754]

@@DaniDoyle You're right, brainfart there. What I meant is that it's often better to equip a good ring on mae, increasing her magical abilities. But the sword hits defense and is often unaffected by the rings she wants to use. Making the sword often underpowered compared to a fire tome as defense tends to be higher than res

[@veerigo]

i think you forgot the christmas LORDS alm and celica

[@DaniDoyle]

Alm is blue

[@veerigo]

@@DaniDoyle doesn’t he have green hair wait am i tweaking edit: i see now

[@Zyaire286]

I love them equally but I stick with the red cavaliers more since I love the offensive stat of speed… can’t say the same for Kent as I technically main him, I just paired him up with Lyn for speed pairings

[@ness6099]

Noish can get you Accost and Critical on a Yewfelle user. I'm no expert, but 134 damage is a LOT of damage. My last run he Ratio'd Chapter 10 Julius with a crit, dodge his wrath crit, crit back. Also with Alan vs Lance: yes, in my run Lance had ENOUGH strength and defense, solid skill and speed, and a res stat, but Alan's really good strength/defense and 0 res was WAY funnier to me.

[@mateymitch1509]

Noish is the only unit in the army who wants the pursuit ring ? What about Lewyn?

[@pho3144]

Shiver City music.... ❤

[@Akbar_and_Shaa]

Shadow dragon cain is a monster as a myrmidon

[@velvetbutterfly]

Before watching I assume it will come down to which requires less luck. i.e. does a strength cav require less luck to get enough speed level ups in order to double enemies. Or does the speed cav require less strength level ups to consistently one-round enemies. I'm gonna guess Cains will win because popular opinion tends to be popular for a reason but we'll see

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I don't have a strong preference, but I usually like reds.

[@Roguerobin4]

Shadows of Valentia has completely thrown off the natural order of Green Cavs being better, yet another reason to not play Gaiden

[@Elite_Teach]

Red cav chad vs Green cav virgin

[@zealgaming8161]

Virgin red cav all becoming women vs the chad green cav remaining men.

[@fationmuhollari9768]

Haha nice one! I'm a green fan usually but I'd say Allen might be a bit better than Lance most of the times? I mean I have played through FE6 HM so many times and I'm still inconclusive myself, but that's the feeling i get. Either way is fine though. The other ones were spot on, but is Kent the worst? Such questions make me love the franchise even more xD

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

At 20/20 Kent is better, but that's not something you realistically get, most of the time (unless you Arena Abuse, or Boss Abuse Lundgren). And with Arena Abuse, even Rebecca is a beast anyway. That being said, I mostly don't use Kent for ethical reason, because that too is the beauty of Fire Emblem: not using a unit just because you truly hate their guts.

[@fationmuhollari9768]

No, I mean I think I haven't trained an FE unit to 20/20 since 2016, except for my boy Callion in Thracia xD. I just don't see Kent being worse than Forde or Noise, or Sally but I've not used her ever so I'm not confident debating that.

[@voratos5768]

Wait! Am I tripping or is Noish riding a dragon and Alec using a bow? There’s something I don’t know, isn’t it? 😅

[@DaniDoyle]

The footage is from a randomizer it's not vanilla gameplay haha

[@bjmclennan]

Justice for Alec! Victim of Red Cav propaganda!

[@sarasaland4709]

I'm glad to finally find someone that hates as much of a hate boner of FE9 Oscar as I do.

[@guyincognito7518]

In Kieran’s defence in radiant dawn he’s not Fiona

[@reallycoolbird]

excuse me? sea of stars footage? hello?

[@technicallythecenteroftheu1349]

Do Alm and Celica count as Christmas lords? Alm is green and celica is red.

[@DaniDoyle]

Ive never heard that before but.... Yeah I can see it

[@RockstarEddie-rk1rm]

I’d say Kein is definitely better than Alba. Kein has D lances, so he can use javelins (and stronger lances) while mounted whereas Alba has to dismount to use his higher sword rank

[@hirotrum6810]

Hardin is the real red cav of fe11

[@DaniDoyle]

Why?

[@hirotrum6810]

@@DaniDoyle turns red in the next game ;)