Utilising Fantasy Interests to Access the Unconscious

[@Hanipingo]

If I undesrtood correctly, the way out of contaiment by fantasies is by engaging with instinct and adapting yourself in dialogue with the inner world and outer world. I think that a mature person would use fantasy and fiction as inspiration and guide to your actions. But I'm still trying to understand what Steve answered at 34:45 to 40:22 on how to create stories that do not contain people. I think what the red head guy said made that a little more clear to me. It's about creating an ecossystem, is'nt it? With characters interacting with each other and making themselves a whole. It's about to reflect upon the character's context. If someone could explain this for me a little more I would be very thankful.

[@95TurboSol]

This was great! It's rare for me but I've had a couple tv shows or movies have a deep pull on me to where I watch them over and over again, one was LOST which I watched all 6 seasons over a dozen times in an 7 year period, it's rare for me to watch something more than once so it had something special I must have needed to learn from it. But just like you said, all of a sudden I didn't feel the pull to watch it anymore, that happened this year. I also remember when I was about 6 years old I watched the animated movie "The fox and the hound" so many times on VHS that the tape was wearing out! Those two are the only media I can remember with that kind of incredible pull on me.

[@kacpergarbiec4174]

Unbelievable! Thank you very much for this content, the idea of going into a patient's fantasy life, on top of everything else included in IPSA and the training course goes to show the apex level of knowledge and skills that are part of IPSA. Bless.

[@DanielJoseph97]

This video really resonated with me as there are few movies which bring me to tears; grandiose scale, exceptional score, amazing cast but couldn't quite figure out why I was attached to it. Many thanks again.

[@savoirfaire6181]

Wow what a great discussion! Young men are curently tied up in replacements to life whether porn, videogames, etc.... I've been so concerned about this but never found any discussion before that reached a level like this! Awesome!

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi again, @savoirfaire618, thanks for your kind comment. Blessings and Respect to You, Steve.

[@imogen.magenta]

Thank you. Very useful and timely. Inspired : “I am real, I exist, I can stand by this. I have my past and my ancestral past, and my direction is forward. It is not into suppression or repression or self neutering. I Will Actualise My Genome.” I will partner with my instincts, feelings, connection to life and people around me, and flow forward! 😊 Movements like steampunk are very attractive - with a return to natural (as opposed to hyper) feminine and masculine - earthy aesthetics and behaviours (not the excessively Goth version) Theres a historical feel with the idea of technology as simple mechanics, the reciting of poetry, tea ceremonies, music, etc. Also a whimsical level of engagement rather than obsessive. Lovely - a gentle fantasy world of decorum and simplicity. I’m in!

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi again @imogen.magenta, thanks for sharing your creative and personal insights, Kindest Regards, Steve & Pauline 🙏🙏

[@Yacobo_]

Archetypes aren't sentient beings living inside your head, who inhabit some metaphysical realm called the collective unconscious. Underneath these inflated fantasies is likely the desire for reconnection with the ancestral wisdom and animation of instincts, leading to a deeper sense of engagement with life.

[@VavrinnD7]

I enjoyed this conversation. Was laid back and went into deep detail. 🙏

[@JungToLiveBy]

Thanks Vasuman, very much appreciated Kindest Regards, Steve🙏

[@sephronnine9775]

Is it the corruption of the culture in the sense that the stories are never allowed to be fully resolved? How do you know if a story is in tune with the collective unconscious in a positive way and trying to communicate ways of being that will push the culture forward? Is consumerism itself partly to blame for the amount of pathological fantasy?

[@fosterellis47]

That red head guy has a great beard!

[@klisse8867]

No you

[@Hanipingo]

lol

[@SelfImageStylist]

🦋

[@deanhettig1920]

😂😂😂

[@insidethefoilbag]

Thanks for all your content. Super interesting. It's also weirdly heartwarming to observe Steve and Pauline's relationship and the way they banter and interact. I focus on that almost as much as the content.

[@asdfghjkl3669]

Didn't expect you to spout off on classic doctor who; another reason to love this channel

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi @asdfghjkl3669, many thanks. I remember the very first transmission of the very first episode in 1963. Foundational experience for a young mind. Kindest Regards, Steve

[@asdfghjkl3669]

@@JungToLiveBy oh dang, I can't imagine seeing that as a kid; there's no where else you can get that level of mystery that you get from old sci-fi serials and stories You probably even saw the "lost" episodes of the show I'm glad to see that the show inspired your journey; especially seeing the result this channel has made in my life.

[@JungToLiveBy]

I was 6 yrs old in 1963, and was hooked on that show instantly. Yes, I saw all the lost Hartnel & Troughton era stories. They opened my mind like nothing else. 🙏

[@asdfghjkl3669]

@@JungToLiveBy awesome

[@karinbilicka9061]

This was an amazing talk, many questions arise in my head with regards of what it means to be an artist. Thank you.

[@ravishingdevil]

Wow it was intense... the journey of marvel just reflecting the corruption of culture and the sheer propaganda movies carries these days trying to set new norms... somewhere also connects with manipulation of history in the literature field

[@michaelchan9874]

I think that was a great distinction you made between media/stories that trap you and the ones that motivate you to fulfill your potential in the real world. It's not about "deleting" your interest, it's about finding the message and acting upon it. Thanks for another brilliant video :)

[@JungToLiveBy]

Thanks Michael, that’s very much appreciated. Kindest Regards, Steve and Pauline 🙏

[@NilSatis1983]

Yeah, wow,

[@windrock]

I had a dream a few months ago and i was in a cave and on the rocks inside were various symbols but what stood out for me when i was on my knees was the image of the tardis under a ledge. Im new to your work and realise i have been lostin a lot of woo for the last few years. Much to my detriment mentally and emotionally. Finding a way forward and getting grounded. What a ride. Do you know any therapists doing your work in Western Australia? Id like to get out of my head as i am an intuitive overthinker.

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi @windrock, its never wise to analyse dreams without understanding the full context of thee dreamer. What I would suggest, is that you join our Discord community, which is a thriving troll-free space with tons of support from the community members, and interaction with the JTLB team. There will also be IPSA trained therapists there for you to approach, privately if you wish. Kindest Regards, Steve🙏

[@NilSatis1983]

When I was in my mid to late teens and into my twenty’s I would “hype” myself up to Prokofiev’s Dance of the Knights, which I discovered by accident on a classical compilation collection I bought in HMV, I was entranced by the masculinity, the slow burning aggression, but also the poise and the elegance that had almost a ball room Tango like feel to it and, of course, it brought to mind Tybalt, Mercurtio and Romeo and that whole tragedy. This was ruined when The Apprentice came out using it in it’s opening credits. It lost all its power almost in an instant as the association changed.

[@notshalltear4177]

Only have gotten through the first couple minutes where Steve talks about the influence of media like anime and such on the psyche and it what clicked for me was separating fantasy from reality, it seems like a simple thing to do at first but for my case (which I believe is why I struggled so much with this) is I've always had a low self esteem and a naturally high libido. My outlets have been in creative works and recently trying to keep reality separated from fantasy as I catch myself merging the two from time to time within my mind of course. As far as I know from tests I come out as an INFJ, underneath my insecurity and this sort of instinct to simply let people push me around like a people pleaser there lies this heavy anger and dominance if I repress myself enough. It could be that I need to strengthen the Ego Consciousness as I am more of a creative person then I thought previously, there seems to be this threshold of keeping the balance within our respective psyches of not leaning to much to the unconscious parts of ourselves and the conscious parts of ourselves and so far at least for me its been hard to manage. I am heavily drawn to symbolism and fanasty and the Jungian understanding towards Alchemy as been highly appealing to this part of me. I am beginning to think I suffer from a complex of sorts or it could be that I am just not giving this energy and big enough outlet, very insightful as always.

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi again, @notshalltear4177, what we regard as 'fantasy' is often the 'representation' of instinctive energy to fulfil our potential, that gets cathected (directed unconsciously) into a virtual holding space, waiting for 'imagination' to kick-in and deliver an actionable model for its (our latent potential's) actualization in the world. Creativity, is a wonderful thing, and serves many purposes. We are all creative, even if as yet only unconsciously so. The main thing about fantasy is to avoid being drawn in to it (or indeed to draw others into it) when it serves no purpose other than to sustain itself. Jungian fantasies, are best left with the originator of them. His life was one of privilege that allowed him to indulge them. He denied being an 'artist' but he was creative in a number of ways. His advice to others was not to be a 'Jungian'. Having a proper relationship to the creative instinct, goes beyond fantasy holding spaces. which serve as entrapments that lock us in to an endless need to produce more and more of them. Creativity, properly 'received' (and the Ego must learn how to receive) directs us beyond the mere imitation of others, and into the realm of the authentic voice of the deepest levels of consciousness. Blessings and Respect, Steve🙏

[@Julian.Goldstein]

Deeply appreciate the insights shared in this discussion.

[@ILikeFeelingElectric]

Another informative video. Thanks for sharing!

[@Andrematt]

Excellent discussion. HIGHLY recommend the book Supergods: What Masked Vigilantes, Miraculous Mutants, and a Sun God from Smallville Can Teach Us About Being Human by Grant Morrison, where he treads this path of what happens when you live with these fantastic ideias colonizing your ego.

[@TrinityForceOne]

Tom Baker is my favorite Doctor even though he’s technically before my time. Not sure why that’s important. Maybe it’s just channel engagement. 😆

[@mariaaaa1128]

I think you will like the Sandman comic by Gaiman, it is such a work of art that draws many Jungian symbolism and freudian theories. The idea that dream is concretised as an almost godly being who rule the realm of the dreaming and the unconscious is intriguing.

[@JungToLiveBy]

Thanks Maria, I'll draw the attention of the team to your reference. Kindest Regards, Steve.

[@Diashi1267]

Thank you guys for a great discussion on this topic. Just want to clarify the last point you made in the video. Being interested in and engaging in fantasy is not evidence of a pathological state. A normal, well adapted person can still be interested in and engage with fantasy. However, for someone who is presenting to you with clinical pathology the diagnosis and solution can often be found within their fantasies. If I have this correct, what do you think is the purpose of fantasy for a person who is otherwise well adapted to life and not pathological?

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi Jeremy Agostinho, many thanks for your question: fanatsy is absolutely fine and perfectly normal in a healthy Ego. It only becomes pathological, when it fills up a 'holding space' for libido that would otherwise be released for healthy adaptation in the world. Fantasy can and does function to relieve instinctive pressure, say for action that would otherwise be harmful for self or others. The 'holding space' can also be utilised to transform the libido concentrated into fantasy, into 'imagination' - defined in this context, as the modeling of adaptive action for the future. The transition from fanatsy, into imagination, is akin to the alchemical transmutation of the Jungians, and also of the transmutation of emotion and instinct into positive action, and the attainment of Bodhicitta, in Tantric Buddhism. Kindest Regards, Steve and Pauline🙏🙏

[@Diashi1267]

@@JungToLiveBy Thank you so much Pauline and Steve for your considerate answer. Over the past few months I’ve been reflecting on the works of fiction that I was drawn to as a child. As a child I would watch these works repeatedly. Some I even memorized every line of dialogue. I was mesmerized. I think my fascination with these works was a rehearsal of instinct. Now as a 32 yo adult I’m able look back on these works as well as current fiction, from an analytical perspective. I’m no longer hypnotized by the object as I was as a child. What I try to do now when I experience a piece of fiction is extract the meaning present in that work, and apply it in a practical sense, in the real world. I’ve been thinking of starting a KZbin channel to share this synthesis with others. Your response has given me further support to pursue this endeavor. Cheers!

[@JungToLiveBy]

Blessings Jeremy Agostinho, our very best wishes for your new venture. Kindest Regards, Steve & Pauline🙏🙏

[@RSEFX]

What means of connection could be established with a patient if, say, their favorite 2 things were the movie THREADS and the Tintin cartoon series? Seems one might spend a lot of time exploring the big wide void between these things.

[@JungToLiveBy]

Are you an experienced Clinician?

[@user-kw9hg9o]

Most of the stories that've hooked me in over the years involved Superman-like characters, as Steve describes the original Superman, in the sense that they have this very numinous aura about them, but at the same time they are grounded and feel like real people. A good example would be the Hellboy comics. A cast of (mostly) supernatural characters embedded in this dream-like, Slavic folklore-ish world where the virtual and the physical are one and the same, but they feel like 'real' people. If either element is missing, i tend to lose interest. As a side note, if you're not familiar with Michael Levin and his work on bioelectric networks, i urge you to look him up. It sounds a lot like Rupert Sheldrake, but more grounded in biology.

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi again, NilSatis1878, many thanks. Yes, Pauline and I are aware of Professor Levin’s work and we’ll be showing its relation to IPSA’s clinical approach and theoretical model in a video due out soon. Kindest Regards, Steve🙏

[@andrewchristie3139]

Guys this is really fascinating. Have you looked in to the whole Zack Snyder's Justice League saga and the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement that preceded it? As a self professed fan of the movie and someone followed the movement closely it's so related to this.

[@theglimmerman]

It's interesting to compare Zack Snyder's DC movies with Marvels. Knowing how much Zack Snyder is influenced and draws inspiration from Joseph Campbell who in turn was influenced and inspired by Carl Jung. Snyder really understands the mythological concept and it shows in his DC movies

[@AmberExista]

I like the ideas you're bringing up. It's tricky, this whole thing with the unconscious and projections, isn't it? I recognize myself very well in this tendency to get frustrated with reality and immerse myself in fantasy, like an anime. So it's nice to have someone snap their fingers, like hey, wake up, live your life don't just dream. So what you're saying acts as a stimulus for that reminder. However, don't you also feel that the unconscious is quite a good self-regulating system? Like, I may be getting too absorbed into jungian fantasy material and forget to live my life on some important levels, but damn, it doesn't feel good. I am actually getting neurotic. And I mean neurosis is the unconscious's way of saying: hey, you're unbalanced, you're too one sided. So then when you get out of your head and go do something in the world, then it actually starts to feel good and your unconscious rewards you with good energy. And you keep on mentioning this thing with jungian analysis taking forever, and as a means to profit out of people and take their money. And I don't know, maybe you're right, maybe some people are actually doing that, but do you really feel that the work with the self is ever finished? Because I don't. And wouldn't that be a sufficient enough justification for having someone accompany you through your process, like just your dream analysis, for instance? So I can see the point of prolonged therapy as long as you enjoy it and it's not like you're dependent on it.

[@JungToLiveBy]

Hi Angela, many thanks, we say repeatedly in videos and on our Discord Server, and in our professional training courses, that the Unconscious under normal homeostatic conditions regulates itself, and, that the Ego’s role is to adapt to the external world. Jung himself was clear that the unconscious should be left alone unless necessary. As for the remark about Jungian analysis taking as long as it does, this is a factual statement that refers to it in context as a ‘therapy’ not as a process of personal development. Jungian analysis as a ‘therapy’ for clinical conditions, is virtually irrelevant in terms of the traditional analytic process. Psychodynamic therapy is efficacious, but long term analysis is not appropriate for the vast majority of people going through true mental illness, severe neurotic distress, phobias, depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, eating disorders and so on. We routinely help people who have been kept in an illness mode for years,by Jungians, and many people who have had similar experiences share them on our Discord Server. There’s nothing wrong at all with people deciding to go on an extended personal development process within a Jungian analytical framework, any more than any other similar process in any other modality of personal growth and belief in any culture. Therapy, as a clinical process, however, is different. Kindest Regards, Steve