Utilitarianism in 4 Minutes

[@josebaltazar6923]

Wow, that just escalated quickly.

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

:).

[@xxsaruman82xx87]

1:29 - Bentham did NOT believe in any sort of higher or lower pleasures. He simply used his Hedonic calculus to determine which action would produce the most happiness. Mill, on the other hand, did believe that there were higher and lower pleasures ("It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied", Utilitarianism, 1861)

[@thanujkd]

I think you're right, even I was skeptical about it. Thank you for the clarification

[@patatas._.5163]

Callese alv

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

Bullshit, it's way better to be the happy pig.

[@schaleesalvo6916]

@@pavelthefabulous5675 This is why utilitarianism does not always work, what makes one happy may not make the other happy.

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

@@schaleesalvo6916 Pretty much. I think utilitarianism in practice leads to a bunch of happy people milking a few hard workers until they are dry. And it can be justified in theory, as the system has "maximized" happiness by making many happy at the expense of a few. At the extreme end, it is like a Colosseum where thousands of fans happily watch as two gladiators in armor cut each other up.

[@dorahthedestroyer1264]

"a few thousand sla... i mean cheap labour" XD

[@JohnThomas]

Nicely produced video, but there are some serious issues worth pointing out: *1.* John Stuart Mill's view regarding higher and lower pleasures is a minority position among contemporary utilitarians. Most side with Bentham, who Mill characterised as saying that _"quantity of pleasure being equal, pushpin is as good as poetry."_ *2.* The fact that we don't all agree about what makes us happy is not a problem for utilitarianism. Utilitarians don't need to _"miraculously come up with consensus about what happiness is."_ People express their preferences in many observable ways - how they vote, what they purchase, where they choose to live etc. Utilitarians take differences in preferences into account when they decide what's best. Economists and politicians do the same thing when they recommend public spending designed to satisfy different demands within their communities. *3.* The fact that it isn't always easy to figure out how best to maximise happiness also poses little problem to utilitarianism. We all have to make prudential choices in life. Sometimes we get things right, sometimes we don't. Utilitarianism simply makes moral decision making similar to prudential decision making. We do our best to make the world a happier place. That's the most we can reasonably expect to do; i.e. to do our best. *4.* The fact that some people use what they *think* is utilitarian reasoning to do things like fund less important medical research or exploit workers in poor countries to get cheap coffee merely illustrates that such people aren't capable of good utilitarian reasoning. Interestingly, that's why some leading utilitarian thinkers including Henry Sidgwick, Peter Singer and Katarzyna Lazari-Radek think that it may not be the best theory to teach ordinary people. That may seem elitist, but when you look at the poor quality of reasoning people often use in online forums, I suspect that they are right. Even the presence of the coffee example at the end of this video raises doubts about the author's understanding of utilitarianism and utilitarians. Contemporary utilitarians are at the forefront of efforts to reduce global poverty and income inequality.

[@blicky2blacky]

John Thomas I searched the comments only to see if my thoughts on this video were actually composed by someone and found your comment.:) well constructed. Of course it is good that the video creator uploaded this video as airing wrong or incorrect opinions offers the opportunity for correction and growth. I believe your comment is the correction afforded by this, again well argued.

[@akbarshoed]

See, you're not really allowed to criticize a snapshot explanation by using more words than he does.

[@baechooboi]

this comment completes this video...

[@cheesymeatball174]

I do agree with points 3 and 4. Proper utilitarian thinking also takes into consideration the pain caused to others and was a big part of Jeremy Bentham's philosophy. I would imagine that quite a lot of big time, maybe even somewhat extreme, utilitarians would never want a decent amount deprived Africans being paid in crumbs to work in poor conditions to make coffee for a high amount of middle-class people because, although it does cause mild happiness for a high amount of people, it causes severe pain for a decent amount of people, causing a net loss in happiness

[@ShannonL7]

You must be a philosophy teacher or major

[@ironmantis25]

Happiness is overrated, suffering is what gives life meaning.

[@lucianocappellano8300]

without reason for suffering suffering is useless. why is suffering the end goal for life? why would anybody listen to that? whats the basis for that claim? whats stopping someone bigger than you from hearing that and beating you to death for disagreeing?

[@VishakhaNS]

Starlord ok Emo

[@aleppogameingreal]

Ok Bemo

[@michelangeloconrad]

meaning=happiness

[@zeemalvern8029]

You make utilitarianism modern and relatable, super helpful. Thanks, man!

[@BiznizTrademark]

Quite good description of utilitarianism, although I would not have mentioned the distinction of lower and higher pleasures, since few utilitarians have ever subscribed to it.

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

Thanks for the feedback! You're right, it is not a super important idea in utilitarianism - but I found it interesting nonetheless :).

[@GetThePicture]

Another GRTEAT video. You got one of the best channels in this genre dude. Your videos forces us to think. Keep it up

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

Appreciate it brother!

[@benjamin_burke]

I think one of the things you fail to mention in this video is that 'utility' can be measured in more ways than collective happiness for the most individuals. Maybe instead the system is striving for economic prosperity, the preservation of the species, raised living standards, extending human rights.

[@erikhoryza9068]

Don't all those things you just listed count for ultimate collective happiness in contrast to their opposites?

[@dominiqueforde1960]

I’m studying for and exam in ethics and I couldn’t find anything more understandable or relatable that’s this...thanks

[@pb2325]

Great video. I like the Freudian slip at the end.

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

Haha, thanks :)

[@Spiceodog]

Well the problem is that the homeless aren’t parasites on our community , they’re the victims of it so it’s not logical to see killing a homeless person to save a shop owner as a net good .

[@johndonwood4305]

One of the main ideas that Mill tries to put across is that the utilitarian tries to place him or herself in the shoes of other people especially in regards to their welfare. We must all want what is good not only for ourselves but for other people as well.

[@pipsantos6278]

All philosophy focusing on happiness can be exploited. The teat for whether something is wrong or not wrong should be whether it violated individual freedom or it did not. Period. People can pursue happiness (if they want to) if they're free.

[@topolo19]

How do you not have more suscribers? Your videos are awesome!!!

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

Thank you :)

[@ross1116]

topolo19 Because he pisses us off with clickbait and preaches his liberal views.

[@turboglitter]

Hey, great video, but there's something I want to point out ... There are not a few thousand workers / slaves underpaid by a few million consumers ... in fact, there are hundreds of millions of underpaid workers / slaves by a few million consumers. The masses are the workers of the third world countries, not the consumers of the first world countries. despite this, good work!

[@aceous99]

almost every body in the bottom of every corporate ladder is under paid, and almost every body on the top of the ladder is grossly overpaid. Utilitarianism sounds pretty ok , like capitalism, but can we ever find a better way?

[@michelangeloconrad]

@@aceous99 the lesser evil=the greater good

[@katiehewitt1541]

It’s because of this utilitarianism that people are so unhappy

[@johnpauldagondong2720]

hypothetical question: suppose you believe in the duality of heaven and hell in the afterlife, do utilitarians have higher chances of going to heaven because of doing the 'right' thing? if not, what philosophical approach should we use in order to achieve being 'good'?

[@leonaswift3834]

This was so good, refreshing in comparison to the monotone videos that sound like they're reciting a textbook. Thank you!

[@jamesm1897]

"So if ur thinking about watching porn, try reading a book..." f*** is this dude thinking "about particle physics" bruh...

[@CrossoverManiac]

"So if ur thinking about watching porn..." Watch porn and ignore the puritan twat that made this video.

[@yesiamsureienteredmynameco2103]

3:52 Nice...

[@PascaldeAguiar]

Well done ! It's very well explained in a very short time !

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

Appreciate it!

[@jordanshattuck8708]

Explain the green party

[@geoannealyzandralaoestrada5918]

Is utilitarianism contrary to rights? If so would act and rule utilitarianism be contrary to rights as well? If it's not contrary to rights, would you say it respects rights?

[@RealSpheal]

Kinda wish you went into Act and Rule.

[@bigmustang1972]

0:00 good idea!

[@bobagguk3534]

I understand why my teacher sent the link instead of showing it in class 🥴

[@quinnflorence]

“ Soylet green is people!!!!”

[@katiehewitt1541]

Not feeling this don’t agree with utilitarian society

[@lochnessmunster1189]

'And pay those people in Third World Countries essentially nothing'- NOT TRUE; they do not get paid 'nothing'.

[@kenelyon795]

Utilitarianism in 5 seconds: Moral philosophy of the godless.

[@ogarzabello]

3:53 FALSE ANALOGY: Nobody is forcing those poor people to work growing coffee for Starbuks, they do it because it's the best available alternative to them in that place at the moment, they would be worse off if they didn't have that alternative, for example, no jobs at all, if you were desperate to make money, would you prefer a low-paying job than no job at all? In addition to philosophy, you should study economics too (watch and read ALL videos and books by MILTON FRIEDMAN, it would be an intellectual adventure).

[@JohnThomas]

Professional video. Nice work. It's hard to squeeze everything into 4 minutes, but Mill's position, disagreeing with Bemtham about higher and lower pleasures, is the minority position among utilitarians and has been since Sidwick. Most utilitarians agree with Bentham who wrote, _”... the game of push-pin is of equal value with the arts and sciences of music and poetry."_ It's the quantity and degree of pleasure that counts, and that doesn't necessarily favor intellectual pleasures.

[@CrossoverManiac]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6TTd5l3gbaGqbc

[@gulturgut1294]

It is actually forced but not in a direct way, you as a citizen of your country (lets assume USA), can choose to do what you want in some cases without trying in some cases with working really hard, but you have an option, you have lots of options. However, these people he is talking about (not always) trying to survive. Now think about it again why wont they apply for these jobs? Because they want to live, they want to be able to provide food, and shelter for themselves and for their family. Soooooo its is as i said in the beggining is forced. Its not false, there are poor people in this world and they work really hard, so you can drink your f*cking starbucks ogar.

[@lucianocappellano8300]

giving a country so much money that it inflates their entire economy to the point of debt slavery to another nation is coercion. i fucking love milton friedman btw. literal daddy.

[@pipsantos6278]

@@gulturgut1294 and not drinking your starbucks coffee will make them what? I can't do better for these poor people than what starbucks is doing to them. But maybe you can do better than starbucks. Please tell us how you can do better than starbucks.

[@mgshuaiger]

Like your videos, but your anti-labor opinions are shocking. Workers in Developing nations work for relatively little wages compared with us because it's better than the even lower wages in the home country. Unless something is done through coercion, choosing to work in one labor market over the other be prima fascia evidence of them seeing benefit in the situation. The role of this in lifting the masses out of abject poverty is well documented. You seriously undermine yourself with this point.

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

I'm honestly stuck on this issue. On the one hand you're completely right. It provides money to those communities that would be poorer without factories. But on the other hand there are shocking stories of suicide, loneliness, depression, etc. about many people who live in these places and only have one choice of employment - the factory that is in their city. My bias though is generally to see the welfare of the individual as more important than the monetary gain they get. This is a nuanced issue and can't be solved in a short video - let alone decades of debate.

[@luiz8098]

Matt Laoshi The one comment I was lurking to find. Explendid.

[@lapointelapointe9747]

My brain hurts. I love it. Thank you I think I'm gonna cry now

[@jmichell5491]

The root to all evil. But the believe that it would end it all.

[@tonymathews4049]

This an incredibly selfish theory, unfortunately we seem to inhabit a hedonistic material world as it is and look how that's working out.....

[@kittyykatie]

I like to see my self as a utilitarian centrist with a sprinkle of authoritarianism

[@Chaplain_Orovyr]

There’s a contradiction in this video. Early on it says that happiness is not just sensual, meaning there is not justification to eat Oreo’s and watch naughty vids all day, but it later goes onto say that for some playing world of Warcraft all day and drinking a can of monster is what makes some people happy. Did you catch that? Playing video games and drinking monster = watching naughty vids and eating Oreo’s are in the same category. This is not happiness as already determined by the video. There is also something that needs to be addressed, and that is the difference between what is right and what is good. For me utilitarianism does the most good; good or bad is determined by how well a living organism or a machine serves its intended function. The function of life is to grow and reproduce, but as humans we give ourselves different duties (imposed functions by the self or an authority) so when you get down to it the foremost function of life is to ensure their survival, and what all individuals need is; food, shelter, water, a reliable means of protection from hostiles, a safe environment to reproduce and find a partner, they also need to be healthy in mind and body but also further the good of the whole. As a rational species, there’s no objective answer as to why we ought to do good. But I see it like this, every individual that refuses to do good is essentially attacking the foundation that allows us to survive and thrive, and by extension everyone standing on it, including themselves. I think the self defence principle applies here.

[@steves3295]

"We don't all agree on what makes people happy." Not being a victim of institutionalized racism makes people happy. And it creates a society that is not on the brink of civil war, thus more happiness for everyone.

[@jeremybentham3313]

Jeremy Bentham approves of this upload

[@jakequaza3567]

0:12 haha JK.... unless?

[@ToadetteAdry]

LOL thank you for some humor!

[@HiVizCamo]

Spock was Utilitarian.

[@akbarshoed]

You missed an "asshole" there. But useful conversation.

[@quade2692]

I love you Lol this is awesome it really helped me grasp the concept of a part of my philosophy paper on ethics

[@magedabuldahab7481]

3:55 Slaves, oh cheap labors, boss move, nice video

[@quinnflorence]

This was interesting 🧐 to watch and new as something I had learn something new to what I commonly know as of late....

[@heaven12345100]

I barely understood! you talk too fast!

[@jefferroo]

Click on the gear icon at the lower right of the screen ("settings"), click on "playback speed" and choose 0.75 or 0.5 to play the video slower. Hopefully that will slow down the audio enough for you to follow along.

[@clr1238]

1:40 I actually do both haha

[@horrorhabit8421]

I'm no big fan of Utilitarianism, mainly because collective happiness simply doesn't exist. Even if telepathy existed, it still wouldn't be enough to justify this idea. Instead of Utilitarianism, I favor Jeremy Bentham's arch-enemy, William James and his Pragmatism. Live long and prosper.

[@ShannonL7]

*Bentham's head has left the chat*

[@patatas._.5163]

No puñetas

[@patatas._.5163]

Xd me gusta insultar a vatos que no saben que escribo xdxd

[@mark19441944]

This is not Bentham. More Mill.

[@TheWatcher328]

A false dichotomy. The standard of living in underdeveloped nations is lower, and thus they can be paid less. It's specifically because they can be paid less that foreign companies choose to employ them. There's no local enterprise that will employ them in their own country! Why pay someone from China California wages when the goods there aren't as expensive as California's? It follows too that you can't pay someone from California Chinese sweat shop wages because their expenses would be higher than their income.

[@ZukunftBilden]

So the goal of utilitarianism is just to produce as much happiness as possible for as many people possible. Right? So actors are for instance really great utilinarist then? ...

[@lucianocappellano8300]

yes but not as good as say, humanitarians, firemen, doctors, etc etc etc. entertainment is that shallow happiness that mill defines.

[@TheMohan1986]

Hey Bentham also put forth the idea of a panopticon or surveillance state. He may have put it in the context of prisons, but when someone lives on the grid, in an apartment and heavily dependent on tools that transmits data two-way, then perhaps modern day life is trapped in the confines of the grid. All that coupled with the Patriot act, NSA, CIA control of media (Look at Church Committee hearings in 1975) and the echobox of academia, media and politics, and perhaps we have arrived at 1984. But perhaps all that sexual freedom does help take a load off, our minds cos who needs to deal with reality right? Hahaha Bottom line: Whether it's power, rights, money, and every other thing that regards to well being in our society, it all functions based on a trickle down mechanism. So much for pleasure or anything in our lives being self-determined :) Love the conclusion though cos that's trickle down economics, fixed media narratives and an enforced sense of hopelessness coupled with self-fulfilling prophecy of our lives (based on geography, SES, gender, etc.). The masses are like the cattle in those huge industrial farm: segregated, force-fed, trapped and destined to live a life that suits the meaning imposed by the farm owners.

[@majorrichards366]

No more porn

[@kimberley1235]

Thank you for your analysis 🥰💗💖💖

[@jcdenton5828]

You lost me at cookie. (I went to the shop to buy some)

[@dagsgaming7627]

Can you please speak slowly not all your viewers can understand your accent so nexttime if you're going to make a video slow it down hehe .. But thankyou for your explanation i understand especially those examples..

[@jefferroo]

Click on the gear icon at the lower right of the screen ("settings"), click on "playback speed" and choose 0.75 or 0.5 to play the video slower. Hopefully that will slow down the audio enough for you to follow along.

[@efraimshilongo]

Subbed :)

[@mindoaf7751]

well fuck this i got my own rules

[@Tymonello]

interesting :D

[@ThoughtMonkeyhq]

Thank you!

[@waddadawd]

You fail to explain why your first example is not a perfect example of utilitarianism

[@benjamin_burke]

Because utility can be measured in different ways. Human life itself can be valued under utilitarianism because a homeless person could help others, or in the long term become an even bigger contributor to society than those waiting for organ transplants.

[@lucianocappellano8300]

negative utilitarianism, classical utilitarianism, act utilitarianism etc etc etc.... theres no model for "perfect" utilitarianism because "perfect" utilitarianism isnt a thing.

[@ikemoon127]

The example you provided in the beginning is an example of utilitarianism. It is not different from the train thought experiment in any meaningful way.

[@ufoengines]

Cool! Patent 672256 .

[@theorydigest9399]

Interesting video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZDbq2SLpcp2n6s

[@she_is_ruby]

I LIKE THIS GUY HAHA

[@lbn6486]

Man, I hate Starbucks.

[@riyasood7124]

love it

[@foamdinner4340]

About to watch porn? Read a book instead!

[@verdinho10]

I’ll be on board with the idea if there wasn’t a moral stigma. The debauched repercussion of taking a humans life is a much greater risk. However, if the value of life wasn’t in place then by all means (not that the religious express more regard for life than the opposite) begin , still holding some rules in place. From here with the assistance of probability majority of situations will be reconciled like the train illustration but there’ll still be the presence of other challenges. For example, the homeless and drug addicts shouldn’t be targeted for their organs (lol) because with the right help and guidance their bad habits and situations can be restored. So now do we identify criminals as targets?... Even that isn’t simple. The severity of your crime will br dependant on whether you keep those kidneys or not. “Electric chair?.. sorry pal but I’m going to need those eye balls and that 9incha”. In conclusion, to participate in such an act you’ll have to be inhuman. Forgot to mention the predicament doesn’t always have to be death centred. It can apply to money, property, opportunity, etc. What if hitler got around to reading Mill instead of Nietzsche?

[@shannoncraig509]

Liability and overpopulation- it would be better to do nothing to divert the train. ;)

[@sandollor]

Haha, you sound like my wife. She quotes Dwight from The Office all the time saying we need another global plague to thin the herd.

[@lucianocappellano8300]

overpopulation curbs itself, and nobody has to know you pulled the lever. dont get your phil from dwight. hes a beta.

[@ross1116]

Your click baiting makes me not want to watch your vidios

[@mitsunori222000]

Slow down the yappy commentary. Basic idea is OK, but attempt to be cool grates.