V FOR VENDETTA (Movie): Is It Deep or Dumb?

[@tobymaxis8426]

Jared: "Timing can be weird" V: "There are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidence"

[@syra1541]

aahahahahaha

[@powerist209]

I think Alan Moore did explore about it in graphic novel, where he based on his observations of anarchist movements and the rise of conservatism in 70's and 80's (I mean it was in Thatcher and Reagan era). Though he seems nuanced in the comic instead of "power fantasy" of the movie (getting a seemingly well-ordered and prosperous yet authoritarian to tell its well-fed citizens to overthrow their government, instead of scared and needy people finally got a catalyst to lash out at the government yet lack his insight to rebuild the society), where the audience are to question if V was a revolutionary or a vengeful insane man lashing out at an evil government along with his revolution turning Britain into an oppressive hellhole into an anarchic hellhole.

[@vampireman8800]

Honeslty, I can't see myself in a world where I believe this wasn't on purpose.

[@lalakuma9]

If you've ever watched The Mindscape of Alan Moore, some of the stuff he's saying eerily sound like prophecies. But I think it's because he makes really great observations of the patterns in our history.

[@Big-Grizz]

”The only verdict is vengeance. A vendetta, held as a votive not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.”

[@briankivuti]

This graphic novel is so ripe for a mini-series, where they can bridge the gaps in the film. Come on HBO give us a V for Vendetta mini-series!

[@JamesLawner]

Or maybe even a sequel.

[@brutusroxy3557]

Yea like the horrendous Watchmen series? Just let Moore’s work speak for itself!

[@tylerwise866]

@@brutusroxy3557 The HBO Watchmen series was pretty great though

[@mattjohnston2]

Yeah, I could get behind that!

[@hbdragon88]

Tyler Wise I feel a more apt comparison would be Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock as those feature the characters from the original and are in the same media (comic). I haven’t really read either but the plot of DC sounded too much like a silly superhero comic book for me to be interested.

[@jaketylersimon]

Are we not going to talk about how accurate the whole riot and virus prediction was

[@salutic.7544]

Jake Simon FINALLY

[@d21storm]

And the fact that the movie took place in the year 2020??

[@knoflins]

@@d21storm when was that titled?

[@Black8White]

Not a prediction. It was a fore telling. Remember there are no coincidences just the illusion of coincidences.

[@Predestinated1]

race waaar

[@mrheisenberg83]

I know the graphic novel is waaaay better than the movie but that movie ending gives me goosebumps every time. The way the masked people just move as one, silent and with purpose. The music. Man, I love that ending.

[@hpatss4966]

I look at it as a different medium. I don’t think Moore’s work would honestly work on the big screen. No one would understand it. I feel the movie adapted it the best it could, even if it may have changed some of the original intention. I feel that if it were done closer to the graphic novel it would be a bit much for audiences and maybe even critics.

[@WildcardASMR]

@@hpatss4966 Thank you! My beliefs exactly. V for Vendetta is arguably one of my favourite franchises ever, and I have unbridled love for both the graphic novel and film, though they are both on very different wavelengths. They're exactly that; two separate mediums -- I actually referred to them as that exact thing in a comment on another video two minutes ago -- and I believe they exist to service two very different markets. Fortunately, many of us exist in both of those. Nevertheless, V for Vendetta will persist as a vitally important piece of media -- be it in its graphic novel vernacular, or the film adaptation.

[@monkeeseemonkeedoo3745]

I can hear it now!

[@Writer10389]

This movie was so formative to me - it blew my teenaged mind. That ending scene where everyone takes off their masks and we see the faces of the dead, symbolizing the triumph of the people who rose up against the regime because their ideas lived on? I cried every time

[@Halalhogan_2.0]

Especially after the part were the the detective had asked Evey who V was and she responded that he was Everyone straight before everybody takes off their mask

[@SimonVelazquez]

Just now realizing that "Sutler" is a portmanteau of "Susan" and "Hitler"

[@joe2k20]

Who is Susan? I haven't seen the movie

[@SamButler22]

It's a reference to how the comic was subtler

[@kokuinomusume]

@@joe2k20 Mr Susan is the leader of the fascist Norsefire party in the original comic. The Wachowski sisters didn't go for subtlety and renamed him Sutler.

[@bananaslippers9]

I learnt a new word

[@lochofmceo]

Who's Hitler?

[@SimonVelazquez]

Looking forward to HBO turning it into an 8-part miniseries in 2-3 years.

[@Oonagh72]

Netflix…

[@somethingsomething8511]

Let's hope they get better writers than they did for watchmen

[@jacoblevenson7934]

@@somethingsomething8511 aside from the ending and the portrayal of 'Ozymandias' what did you find poorly written?

[@somethingsomething8511]

@@jacoblevenson7934 to much overt politicization. I'm all for politics in media, my favorite show of all time is The Wire and it's chock full of it, but when it's being bashed over your head from the outset it's obnoxious. It's the same way I don't like much religious media or music, too much focus on the message and not enough on the entertainment aspect. If I want to learn about politics I'll read the news or watch a documentary, TV shows need to entertain me first and educate me second.

[@TheresaWheeler]

@@somethingsomething8511 if you hated the politics of the show don't read the books😂

[@leovk5779]

"God is in the rain." I'm from northern France, a region famously mocked for it's constant raining. We're kinda the UK of France in term of weather. Or at least we used to be. When I was a child in the nineties, there was snow almost every winter. Lots and lots of snow that held for weeks. Now it's rare when there is snow in plains, and here in the North it's almost only plains. And where there is, it almost never hold more than a day. Two days ago, when this review came out, I watched V for Vendetta again in the evening. There has been a slight drought in northern France (and in a large part of France really), like there has been almost every year for a decade, but this year it was earlier than usual. But at last, two days ago, it started raining. Pouring, really. That was nice.

[@tiyab3104]

I really thought that somehow you were going to tie the movie into this...... but thanks for the weather update. 😂😂😂

[@brandonrobinson8169]

@@tiyab3104 ...try to see beyond the trees. See the forest. Is this a weather update or a poem?

[@tiyab3104]

@@brandonrobinson8169 I'm not sure....🤷🏾‍♀️ Please break it down for me.

[@thomasdemarteau6367]

Putain de chti

[@ma.s2386]

well i am from Egypt and when i was a kid it used to reach mid 40s in the summer and rain a couple of times from dec to feb. now it rarely reaches 40 in the summer and it rains almost weekly from nov to march and in the past 10 years it hailed or snowed once every year so maybe god is somewhere over the Mediterranean traveling from France to Egypt XD. it's climate change man but seriously though i like to believe that god is closer to us than our jugular vein.

[@kolinmartz]

Thinking about the graphic novel version of V: “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

[@stocktonhall1318]

That's a Nietzsche quote

[@divyanshpanwari348]

Batman?

[@SpawnFanboy]

*The time has come for me to meet my maker and to repay in kind for all that was done".*

[@flapadodawhitewoods5670]

V also said “vichyssoise” and I have no fucking clue what it means

[@cameronmitchell8180]

Watchmen quote as well. Alan Moore loves that saying

[@colorado4815162342]

It's like that Solzhenitsyn quote: "If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." Jared successfully points out how the graphic novel was more nuanced, while the movie is more like an anarchistic Batman movie.

[@ksciscokid9816]

Couldn't agree more ... Our reflection isn't so clear when we look in the mirror as we think it is.

[@DeadEndFrog]

"i didn't know freedom meant people doing things that suck"

[@jh5133]

Summer?

[@DeadEndFrog]

@@jh5133 yes summer going from anarchist to fascist in the blink of an eye

[@PurpleDingoPress]

Aw Summer...first race war, huh?

[@FreakazoidRobots]

@@PurpleDingoPress This isn't a race war. This is a few bad actors taking advantage of the situation. You'll _know_ when you've experience a real one, because you'll be hiding in your bullet torn hovel instead of joking on social media.

[@vlaricshard2]

@@FreakazoidRobots im pretty sure hes just finishing out the rick and morty scene.

[@rashkavar]

A couple of things you're brushing over: Norsefire does have a complex character: the detective. He attends the inner circle meetings. His slow turn away from the party in favor of the revolution is the kind of thing it takes to build a 3d character, and it's honestly, he's more of a viewpoint character than V is. There's also the doctor, who, while not given a *lot* of depth and backstory, shows clear signs of humanity and remorse over her part in things. V isn't all charm, he puts it on. And you apparently bought it just as much as Evey does. Consider what he does from what information he has at the time. He manipulates *thousands* of people to dressing up in identical masks and has them storm the grounds of parliament, against the army of a far right nation that has violently suppressed protests in the past. He has no way of knowing that the general in charge of that force is going to stand down. Hell, he's even got them all in identical masks, and outfits - robbing them of the human individuality that makes shooting actual humans harder than shooting human-shaped silhouettes at a target range. He uses Evey in his revenge plot to take out a priest - a man who has no strategic value for stopping the Norsefire government...hell, a man whose murder could well have turned public opinion against him (murdering "holy men" tends to be frowned upon by adherents to that religion). He then kidnaps Evey from the place she fled to and tortures her for *days*. V is not a good person, he's a manipulative bastard whose plans worked out well for him. (And Evey's got a massive case of Stockholm Syndrome, which the audience kinda gets as she's the main audience viewpoint.) You can't take a 3 book series and turn it into a 2 hour movie without losing a lot of the nuance. The movie has a summary of the core plot. It gives a satisfying movie ending because it's a movie, not a book. It's honestly the best a movie adaptation could be expected to do. A 1:1 translation into film would take a full season of TV episodes, at least.

[@MrPink-qf1xi]

You said it perfectly, I think this is my least favorite deep or dumb, they really didn't do justice to the movie.

[@leovk5779]

To be fair to the deep or dumb review, they didn't say the movie was bad or dumb. He's just saying it has a different message than the comic book. Also for the priest: I disagree, he is an integral part of Norsefire's influence (he's their religious caution), he was shown in flashbacks to have been important to their rise in power, as well as a clear bastard (oversimplified vilain as said in the review),. His death is highly useful to making the Norsefire government fall. When he was brutally murdered by V, it did not make me side less with V, as this priest character is a grotesque parody of any positive religious figure. Overall however I agree with your arguments about the fact that V is a more complex and grey-area character than the deep or dumb review lets out. You talked very well about the detective and the doctor, who are the grey character inside the Norsefire government, something that was indeed completely overlooked by the review.

[@NelsonGuedes]

It's hard to find the words to describe that part of the movie where V tortures Evey for days. Like, the first thought that comes to mind is "wow, what a psycho", and it's obviously wrong and horrible, but he also makes a point. If it wasn't a movie, it would be NO WAY. But it's a movie, it's not real, and it does make a deep point about life, freedom and death. It's one of my favorite parts of the movie.

[@MrPink-qf1xi]

@@NelsonGuedes When I read the comic I felt shocked but it felt like what comic book V would do, in comics he is more like Joker from the Dark Knight. In the movie he does it and he hates doing it, but it's the only way he knows how to teach something like that, so it makes it more tragic and disturbing for me. It almost feels like V from the movie goes back and forth between different versions, he wants to leave with Evey but he is so full of vengeance he can't, and I like that humanization of the character. He is a very flawed and time to time disturbing character with a lot of charm.

[@rpsyco]

I remember watching the movie thinking that V was an absolute monster just as bad as the government he was fighting, tbh.

[@561skyline]

Deep > Dumb. This movie is great, and stands next to the dark knight as one of the best comic book to movie adaptions.

[@WolvenSpectre]

Ironically that too took huge liberties with the source material too.

[@561skyline]

WolvenSpectre adapting anything is ok. Especially when the adaptation is appreciated regardless of source material. I dont think humans have had a unique thought in a very long time, everything is based off of something now a days.

[@wolfen03]

I read the graphic novel over the summer, and I think the movie change to his speech over the television was genius. It made for a much better flow and got the idea over more clearly (in my opinion). Plus the movie clocked in at over two hours, so yes, if they want to be more true to the novel it will require a mini-series.

[@Kestas_X]

I think "good versus evil" is sadly a problematic way of thinking in real life

[@matryxgeounlymyted56quarde9]

@Mr.Cocobuttz - Yeah. No. - This answer would be objectively and factually true and correct, if it wasn't also objectively and factually untrue and incorrect as well. There are usually and/or always two ways to solve, fix, and distinguish Good and Evil, and that would be, you could use The Stereotypical Generalization Of Good Vs. Evil (A>Z) and/or you could use The Objectively Logical, Correct, and Rational, and also, Critical Thinking, Analysis, Investigation, and Discussion, and also, Generalization Of Good Vs. Evil (A->Z). These differential and variational kinds of thinking aren't usually nor always the central problem and/or problems when trying to solve, fix, and distinguish Good and Evil, and those very problem and/or problems are usually, if not always, are The Different and Various Ideological Methodologies that are used to solve, fix, and distinguish Good and Evil. Just Saying. .😉. - }({TL;DR}){ - No. It. Isn't. .😑.

[@Phoenixfox-og6el]

MatryxGeoUnlymyted56 QuardeonXyroApolaeyeon27 what did you just say

[@matryxgeounlymyted56quarde9]

@@Phoenixfox-og6el - Good Versus Evil, in every single sense of these words and actions, isn't truly nor inherently, a wrong way of thinking at all, and that can actually be an objectively correct and a factually legit way of thinking. It's usually and/or always the questions of WHEN, HOW, and WHY do you go about that way of thinking overall, and also, in its entirety and/or entireties. He/She was implying that that type of thinking was objectively, correctly, and factually detrimental, wrong, and incorrect, but never bothers giving any nor fictional and/or non-fictional examples that proves that opinion to be factually and wholeheartedly true in all of its majorities and/or its entireties. Just Saying.

[@darlalathan6143]

Yes. It always leaves out neutrality or confuses it with evil.

[@thomasdemarteau6367]

You're right it really is too simple to reflect reality

[@Moeller750]

Honestly, wasn't any major screen adaptation of an Alan Moore graphic novel doomed to be de-fanged?

[@NobodyC13]

It's kind of like saying: "X will make Alan Moore very angry." When the actual question should be: isn't he always angry?

[@Sorcerers_Apprentice]

I think they'd really do better as TV miniseries rather than movies. Movies have 2 hours to give you the characters, setup, what's going on and why you should care. A TV miniseries gives you more time for introduction, development and an arc for multiple, nuanced characters and winding plot.

[@fartsofdoom6491]

@@NobodyC13 Actually, he seems like a really cool guy angry at all the right things. Which is why any major screen adaptation was always doomed to be horrendously defanged.

[@MrPink-qf1xi]

From what I know only adaptation of his work that he likes is "for the man who has everything" that episode from the Justice League Unlimited is amazing.

[@v-trigger6137]

@@MrPink-qf1xi that episode is probably the most accurate adaption of any of his work. it was made with real passion and knowledge, unlike these blockbuster crowd praising movies

[@scottk1525]

Less of a "deep or dumb" video and more of a "was it faithful to the source material" video.

[@YouMeAtSix0123]

100% dude i feel like they should edit this or add a dissclaimer, they got it or expressed it wrong.

[@xstoofpeer]

Uhhh no.

[@danielb270]

it is more of "is it as deep as it should have been?'

[@JamesAcrossAmerica]

Agree

[@lino5167]

Totally agree.

[@ThomasRushing]

Remember, Remember The Fifth of November.

[@Soul_underground]

Flush the turd November 3rd

[@autodidacticartisan]

The gunpowder treason and plot

[@IcyAquaMarine]

Yes! Let's vote for the better option of "shoot them in the leg". That is why we are how we are, because we don't demand more from candidates. Biden has been telling us non-stop that if we don't agree with him we should vote for Trump or someone else [kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGTHooVvpLZspqc&ab_channel=SunriseMovement / kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHmropaoaZikqJI&ab_channel=KCCI / kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYukaYuGg7aLh7M&ab_channel=RebelHQ / kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnPVcqubeLFmick&ab_channel=BadBigBody ]. Biden also said he won't stop funding for the wall, he's against M4A, he was pro segregation, he's used racist language, and has favored racist legislations. Let's not forget either that he's known as being "handsy", he touches and sniffs girls and women without their consent. "Joe has described African-American felons as “predators” too sociopathic to rehabilitate - and white supremacist senators as his friends." - "Biden helped his fellow liberals reconcile themselves to the wrong side of history by recasting integrationists as the real racists." - "Mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent drug offenders, the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine, civil asset forfeiture, and extensive use of the death penalty - the Delaware senator was involved in establishing them all. Biden is famous for his lead role in crafting the 1994 crime bill, or, as the senator preferred to call it (as recently as 2015), the “1994 Biden Crime Bill.”" - nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html On the "how to deal with the legacy of slavery", in the 70's he said: “I don’t feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation, and I’ll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.” Last year in a democratic debate he rambled on about how black parents are to blame for how they raise their children. - theintercept.com/2019/09/13/joe-biden-democratic-debate-slavery/ "... you shoot them in the leg..." - news.yahoo.com/biden-suggests-police-could-shoot-assailants-in-the-leg-instead-of-the-heart-201750470.html A year ago he said to rich donors, that if he gets elected "nothing would fundamentally change" - "Biden told donors at an event at the Carlyle Hotel in Manhattan on Tuesday evening that he would not “demonize” the rich and promised that “no one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,”" - www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/ "BIDEN’S BORDER WALL: “Joe Biden once spoke about jailing employers who hire ‘illegals,’ said sanctuary cities shouldn't be allowed to violate federal law, and argued a fence was needed stop ‘tons’ of drugs coming into the country from ‘corrupt Mexico. Then-Sen. Biden's past comments, which he made in the run-up to and during the 2008 presidential race, show an approach to the issue … that could run afoul of the party's more liberal wing,” Kaczynski writes. Speaking to a South Carolina rotary club in November 2006, Biden called for a border fence and a system to punish American employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants. “Unless you do those two things,” he said, “all the rest is window dressing.” - www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-shift/2019/05/13/bidens-border-wall-435787 "Biden says he would veto Medicare for All, citing price tag" - www.cnbc.com/2020/03/10/biden-says-he-wouldd-veto-medicare-for-all-as-coronavirus-focuses-attention-on-health.html In this last statement he says that's because of the $35B price tag it would be unlikely to pass. But it's actually $32T over the next decade, $4T less than what we currently pay. "The federal government estimates that national healthcare spending will total about $48 trillion over the next 10 years as costs keep going up. By 2027, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, we’ll be spending about $6 trillion annually on healthcare. Total spending over the subsequent 10 years likely will reach a staggering $60 trillion - at least. That’s the cost of doing nothing. It’s what opponents of healthcare reform are saying is our best option." - www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-14/medicare-for-all-cost And here's a study published in January of this year that estimates 22 different options "Projected costs of single-payer healthcare financing in the United States: A systematic review of economic analyses" - journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003013 "The health care [sic] industry is happy to see Joe Biden jumping into the Democratic presidential race, hoping he can be a bulwark against their true 2020 opponent: Medicare-for-all." - www.vox.com/2019/4/26/18515699/joe-biden-2020-presidential-campaign-medicare-for-all I'm afraid none of those two options are good. We're screwed no matter what. And before anyone complains, I did not cite any of the awful things said and done by Trump because we're* all well aware of those. If you want to, feel free to.

[@autodidacticartisan]

@@IcyAquaMarine the copy pasta is strong with this one

[@IcyAquaMarine]

@@autodidacticartisan Yes, what is between quotes is copied and pasted with their source. What is not are my opinions.

[@maybeitsceline]

"do we want an inspiring story about good triumphing over evil, or are we ready to take a harsh look at where that evil comes from in the first place?"

[@hebbycakes]

This movie was also formative for me, I saw it in my 3rd year of high school and it definitely resonated with me. But I also resonated with A Bug's Life. I tried to read the graphic novel but it was a bit too complicated for me at the time. However, it was also very important to read. I love the movie to this day, but I do agree that the clear cut good and evil aspect does detract from the message because as we all know, people who are corrupt do not and will not see themselves as evil. The epidemic being created by the bad guys in the movie also detracts any long term message, because as you pointed out, it removes any blame from the people for turning to fascist regimes. We've got people claiming that covid is made up OR is a bioweapon created by the government (of where depends on where you live I guess) and I can see people watching the movie now drawing parallels with the St Mary's virus and Covid and reaching a completely misinformed conclusion. Seeing people lining up in the camps and being labrats for their vaccines when i rewatched the movie made me sigh, because I find this scenario depicted irresponsibly. Of course, when the movie was made, no one could have predicted covid, but swine flu was not too long after, and SARS after that. Had an epidemic just HAPPENED and people chose fascism because the party was fear mongering, that absolutely would have been more effective. But because of how they went about it, the message is muddied. Killing the bad guys is good, torturing someone into understanding your perspective is fine as long as it's for a good cause, and people don't really have to take ownership of their falling for propaganda. Despite my criticisms, I LOVE this movie. It's still one of my favorites. I don't mind that they made V romantic, I almost wonder if they felt they had to tone it down because otherwise audiences wouldn't go see it. But it's still a very good movie, the cinematography is breathtaking. Also Hugo Weaving and Natalie Portman are incredible. It's very strange to not see smart phones at all. We can just say that Sutler made them an executable offense because he didn't want to be made fun of. The graphic novel portraying the nuance of characters and showing that V and Sutler are both ruthless men who will do anything to get what they want, but also don't care about anyone else. In the movie, V has this capacity for love and he's so very charming. We love a theater lover. But seeing the movie again, I can't help but also think it's creepy how V is. I think you could argue the parallels between V and Sutler are still very present, but their techniques differ. Sutler conquers through fear, V seduces people with his charm and wit. makes them capable of atrocities through empowerment. But IS it empowerment? The movie kind of seems to brush it aside, but even now I'm still like "He tortured Evey for MONTHS and is now like BUT DON'T U UNDERSTAND ME NOW" and we're supposed to say "yes :)" which is very unsettling. We see V crying after what he felt he had to do, and I do love it from a character standpoint, but as a message it's. A little bit terrifying. While it could be argued that he was preparing her for what they'd likely do to her, he was still torturing her. It wasn't made up, he actually did those things to her, used her trauma against her. Repeatedly took advantage of her, but he's so charming, you just want to let him. It's SUCH a scary character because he's so goddamn seductive but also so dangerous. I think he does embody anarchy in that way, especially with how younger people see it. Anarchy is victory over evil and crushing the corrupt! Oh, wait, it's more complicated than that, isn't it? No, no, let's listen to oldies and dance~ I totally understand Moore's criticisms, and I think of the movie as an alternate universe of the graphic novel. Both are good and important, but both are easy to misunderstand. Had the music not been so heroic for V whenever he was around, I think we definitely would have been more like EUGH?? about his methodology. But at the same time, I don't know. I think if they were trying to seduce you into being an anarchist, they did a pretty good job didn't they? It sure worked on teenage Hebby! Graphic Novel V WISHES he were as good at recruitment as Movie V. (Moo-V?) Signed, a person who rewatches V for Vendetta every Nov 5th

[@mfcoom9485]

Seen the film, havent read the novel. But changing “purity” and “unity” changes everything.

[@elevenseven-yq4vu]

The original comic book is superb: So much atmosphere, grittiness, food for thought, so many interesting characters, ideas, motives, references, scenes. Such rich and immersive world-building. So much moral gray area, so many nuances. What a story arc! Great subplots. And the artwork! Harrowing and haunting, vivid and bleak, dramatically efficient and yet grounded in realism.

[@ocek2744]

One thing I'd like to point out is that Anarchism is not the opposite of order, Anarchism is the opposite of Hierarchy. Anarchic societies can be highly ordered, but they lack the strong authoritarian castes.

[@Shadowcast577]

Basic boildown is that it's not that there aren't any laws, it's that there are not any rulers. That's a bit oversimplified, but as one lined as you can get.

[@voshi2211]

Mostly every organized thing I see in real life involves hierarchy. Like where I work there are attendants incharges and supervisors. It does not seem practical to live without them

[@nimaxx]

@@voshi2211 right, but "hierarchy" and "authoritarian hierarchy" are two different things; first one is based on trust and mutual respect, while the other one is forced.

[@jeremygilbert7989]

@@nimaxx And both are vulnerable to corruption and abuse. Anarchy is a fine social structure on paper but, like communism, it simply can't account for human nature to a strong enough degree to make it viable beyond extremely small, localized societies.

[@voshi2211]

@nimaxx @Atheos B. Sapien seems like mutual hiearchies would naturally evolve into authoritarian hierachies to make processes more efficient

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

Alan Moore is always going to have an issue with anything that takes his work out of his own hands. Why? He is *literally a wizard* and there is plenty of documentation about this. ;p

[@laurocoman]

I know he is a anarchist now, but wasn't he a communist before?

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

@@laurocoman Honestly, I think he's just a real life Gandalf that occasionally wanders into normal people territory and tries to use the best normal people terms he can to describe himself. As a reclusive feral musician who can't stop talking about myself and comparing myself to better artists, I can relate. ;D

[@dakdakgoos]

@@Pensive_Scarlet haha this reminds me of how Moore and Morrison have a little feud over who is more occult and who has the better writing

[@Monetshimmons]

Read From Hell, I swear the cab ride with Jack and Nettly is written as a spell

[@arianafox365]

Pensive Scarlet I thought he was a witch? 🤔

[@OpenMind3000]

Hmmm.... Very interesting.... As a teenager I loved this movie, but now after hearing the diffence to the comics I would love to see a more nuanced version of the story.

[@spiderjerusalem4009]

Fun fact : After Keanu reeves and Hugo weaving played in Matrix. Keanu played a DC Vertigo's character (Constantine) in 2005. Hugo played a DC Vertigo's character (V for Vendetta) in 2005.

[@ProductBasement]

I'm not sure V is a "clear-cut good guy". After all, he kidnapped and tortured Evey

[@luisguilhermeoliveira5794]

Yeah, but in the end Evey says thank you, dances with him and kisses him and the movie highlights how terrible he felt doing that. So yeah, they kept that part, but softened as much as they could.

[@sharilshahed6106]

@@luisguilhermeoliveira5794 a lighter case of Stockholm Syndrome.

[@luisguilhermeoliveira5794]

@jeremy Lyons according to the movie, It really was alright in the end. And that's the problem.

[@luisguilhermeoliveira5794]

@jeremy Lyons you seem to be unable to distinguish how an action would be perceived in real life from how the movie portrays it. In real life, that shit would be just disturbing, but the movie shows like the moment Evey loses her fear and is set free. They even paralel it with the shot of V in the fire.

[@Jedi_Are_Scum]

Well if you think about it, he did indeed save her from the so-called police. If he didn't kidnap her, they certainly would have done so, after she jumped out the window. She would have been in the same position, in a cell. Not saying I condone what he did after (with his staged cell). But not only did he SAVE HER LIFE in the LITERAL sense. He stripped her of fear. I don't condone it, but if he didn't kidnap her, she would be dead. So I look at the lesser of the two evils.

[@zwergz1122]

I can watch V's speech every day for the rest of my life and never get tired of it.

[@leanasa2915]

tru tru

[@safariguy5]

Beneath this mask, there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask, there is an idea... And ideas are bullet-proof! Men may fail and fall, but ideas stand the test of time.

[@doomdoktor]

This is such a double-edged sword...

[@edc2879]

Unless they are surpassed by an even better idea.

[@meta6797]

that’s so deep

[@Icameron259]

At least two famous real-life revolutionaries have had similar quotes attributed to them: "I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man" (Che Guevara), and "While revolutionaries as individuals can be murdered, you cannot kill ideas." (Thomas Sankara). I recommend learning about both of them if you have not already done so!

[@Dan-ud8hz]

"If I had understood the situation a bit better I should probably have joined the Anarchists." ― George Orwell, Collected Essays; Vol 1 page 289

[@bobbydisastrous]

So?

[@KrzysztofMularOlsen]

That can mean a lot. What was the point he was making? If he figured out that all people who chose sides in politics are useful idiots.... Sure. Why not anarchy. But you need to provide some context to show his point and not what you want people to read from it. "Inside every anarchist lives a little dictator" We've seen that this year. In a society without laws, you have to protect those you care about. Do you want that responsibility in a life and death situation? Every anarchist should ask themselves that question.

[@Dan-ud8hz]

@@KrzysztofMularOlsen The context is the rest of the book. Anarchy is not chaos or lack of any system.

[@KrzysztofMularOlsen]

@@Dan-ud8hz I don't need to read more about possible dystopian futures to convince me we are well on our way into one. Anarchy happens when government fails. Then comes some form of dictatorship. If you can't sum up a book in a few sentences, you didn't understand it. Most likely you just didn't read the book. And you're quoting a screenshot or something. My guess is: The context is the rest of the essay. You did not read the essay.

[@Dan-ud8hz]

@@KrzysztofMularOlsen Anarchy is a Greek word that means "No Archons." It's on you to learn what an Archon is in various contexts.

[@J8den]

I just watched this on Netflix and said "oh the irony" because of whats happening rightnow hahaha but for real I hope everyone is safe

[@Kapsones33]

99,98% of the population is safe.

[@peterf08]

Seems to be alot of these ironies over the years

[@51dodoc]

@@Kapsones33 "But the true genius of the plan was the fear" -V

[@ramzichouk4080]

tell a vision : our vision is to impose this on you

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Pure quality, showing us the GLOBAL New World Order technocratic fascism of the "elites". Time for humanity to wake up.

[@ServerYT]

*Wisecrack* : Alright, I finished the video! *Viewers* : Yeah, this might not be the best time to upload this... *Wisecrack* : Well it's the 5th of Junember so I think it will be fin-- *Viewers* : Yeah... Not because of that... _Wisecrack looks outside the window to see a mysterious plague and protests by people wearing masks and burning shit._

[@lillianabright03]

i mean, most of the protestors aren't the ones burning things.

[@ServerYT]

@@lillianabright03 Yeah, obviously, the rioters are a small percentage of the total protesters. I think we can all agree to that. But I had to be as vague as I could in order to draw similarities :D

[@adrianclark2734]

But, america is becoming more fascist every day...

[@JT044-iz1cv]

@@adrianclark2734 muh fazcizm

[@adrianclark2734]

@@JT044-iz1cv I mean, its undeniable at this point...

[@megamob5834]

Another instance of Alan Moore seeing the writing on the wall back in the 80’s

[@Kingsbeneathus]

THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU

[@easongoldman1011]

*A long statement I can't remember*, and you can call me V

[@ألتعليقألنقدي]

Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honour to meet you

[@iamantonius]

So. You’re like a crazy person. 👀ألتعليق ألنقدي

[@pussinboots9983]

Too much V's.

[@ألتعليقألنقدي]

@@iamantonius I'm quite certain they would say so

[@matthewjarek3026]

Read the comic last year. Loved it. Saw this movie a few months ago. Loved it even more. I think because of the Pandemic, it resonated with me more than I thought it ever could.

[@erincarr9411]

I literally watched V last night.

[@AmanKumar-ev7ix]

How was it??? Is it worth watching?

[@spiderjerusalem4009]

@@AmanKumar-ev7ix just watch it and you'll be surprised how it is accurate to these days, probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite DC's movie

[@noneinparticular2338]

Watch it.regularly ... stay on top dictatorship doctrine

[@ulysisxtr]

"Seek the truth and the truth will set you free."

[@melo.4489]

Ironically, this is the motto the current conservative president of Brazil used during his campaign.

[@swarajkanr]

@The Iguana funny I thought the same thing, is this quote or reference to something?

[@TheMattsem]

Sometime the truth hurt

[@MoneyGist]

"Authoritarianism is not something that arises because a small group of evildoers hatch a plan. It rises out of the country itself, championed by large sections of the public." America today.

[@Lucan47]

A lot of the world today, actually. USA, Brazil, India, Philippines, Hungary; there might be more I'm not aware of.

[@thescapegoatmechanism8704]

As the Grand Inquisitor pointed out, the masses are too dumb and evil to not have an authoritarian figure of some sort.

[@dcfromthev]

We are ungovernable

[@cheery-hex]

ppl get the govmt they deserve

[@NyanHomeschoolGirl17]

I’m genuinely curious, what do you mean by that? The new anti-free speech movement, the rampant unethical corrupt conglomerates or...?

[@declanreiser236]

Saw that v for vendetta was trending on Netflix right now, laughed my tired protesting ass off. Thanks for the video guys!

[@KawiLover250]

I have watched it twice a day for the last 4 days because it hit me that I was having deja vu remembering this movie and how it compares so eerily to what's happening to the world right now

[@declanreiser236]

@@KawiLover250 have you seen the video "I can't stop watching contagen" by unfolding ideas? Might explain this condition

[@KawiLover250]

@@declanreiser236 Thank you so much I just watched it and it did help me understand why. Very grateful for your recommendation!!

[@declanreiser236]

@@KawiLover250 no prob!

[@gavman8]

Yeah V for Vendetta is both my favorite graphic novel AND movie. I love them both for different reasons, they're like two great retellings of the same story! Would love to see an HBO miniseries of it, either a closer comic adaptation or a "few years later" thing like they did with watchmen.

[@wej0w]

The speech when he places the dominos comes to close to reality.

[@braxtonfriday8713]

The scene where V breaks that dude's mind by burning his dolls has stayed with me for a while just cause of how friggin' weird it was (from the graphic novel)

When its gonna be realesed a video about Twin Peaks, Jared? I see a sheet of the series behind you. Nice video by the way

[@joshuamalcomb6060]

I think (possible false memory) they are not going to do Twin Peaks in a deep or dumb format because its so dense with imagery they don't want to try and parse it down for a video

[@Luke-gq7du]

@@joshuamalcomb6060 Truth is they are scared to try tackling it, and that's fair.

[@Letheanscheme]

@@joshuamalcomb6060 This guy tackles Twin Peaks and it is really one of/if not the best interpretation, with logical arguments supported by evidence...and thorough! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXK8n3lrnbSbq68

[@Kisarez]

@@Luke-gq7du Wow, projecting much? I might contrast your view with mine, but hesitate from calling mine 'the truth'. Dunno, I could just do that. Or not. Lets think first, before we type right?

[@FilmFightFanatic]

He mentioned Twin Peaks in a video about Spring Breakers. He said that a deeper analysis would ruin his own personal subjective experience of it.

[@pHaace]

Shout out to Jared for being so real about taking care of our own mental health. Hope you and rest of Wisecrack are doing well.

[@sultanaljuhani1571]

V for Vendetta was the last movie I've watched on VHS. Good times

[@azvdcrafts6147]

Having a Netflix mini-series of V for Vendetta, with a plot more faithful to the book wouldn't be a bad idea, am I right? EDIT: From what you say it seems that HBO would be a better option over Netflix, and I actually cannot disagree. HBO has a better hand to create dark and contained series. I once talked with my sister, a true V for Vendetta comic fan, on how a TV series could be developed: we both agreed that it would be nice if it were 5 episodes ("V episodes") leaning more to the plot of the comics, but also paying some homages to the movie... I only wonder who the cast would feature... Any suggestions?

[@dadmonster1019]

I completely disagree. Netflix is biased toward a left leaning audience. I personally do NOT affiliate with the left or right but I've been a huge fan of Allen Moore since I could read proper. HBO did a pretty great job with Watchmen. If they decided to go all in with similar works of art, I would be all for it.

[@v-trigger6137]

lmao Netflix has become much more sensitive in the past couple of years, they will never gonna adapt this faithfully. even if they do, it will he a watered down version, just like the movie.. (in my opinion, HBOmax is all the way)

[@dadmonster1019]

@@v-trigger6137 not gonna lie, b0ss. Your YT tag threw me off initially but we ultimately agree lol

[@shanem4963]

That would only work if Hugo Weaving was still V.

[@jacquelinebugaringonzalez4999]

Yea...Trump

[@mickcv4554]

I just watched it and didn’t have that take at all. V wasn’t some church boy good guy like superman, bunch of times I cringed at him murdering soldiers that he knew had no idea who they were working for or the whole story. He also tortured the girl which is pretty grey, definitely wouldn’t see a typical hero doing that.

[@j0an-07-arc6]

mick cv he’s not good or bad like he said I came to do the devils work

[@Garrus1995]

Think that cements the idea that freedom and anarchy are not inherently beautiful things. They can be violent and cruel, same as fascism. V is willing to kill and psychologically torment people to spread his message, something the Norsefire regime did all the time. It all comes down to who in the long run commits the least evils.

[@mickcv4554]

Joy Division that’s what I’m saying. Jared said he was way more clear cut good guy in this. And yes hes an anyihero, but he certainly isn’t one dimensional. I think authors should keep their mouths shut on adaptations they sign the rights to.

[@mickcv4554]

Tony Carson right, I loved the movie A+ in my book. It was because he did these kinda grey ethical things that made him interesting

[@1701spacecadet]

But until that point, everything that had happened to the people was just abstract to her. She couldn't free herself fully from the shackles of conformity until she experienced what countless others had experienced. It was the ultimate expression of catharsis, writ large.

[@storiesofbike]

I was always amazed that a movie like this existed so soon after 9/11. A movie effectively showing how a country's people could become sympathetic with terrorism and proponents of it. Even though the movie is a watered down version of the comic, it still resonates with me every year on November 5.

[@DarthMadV]

If it wasn't deep it would not be studied in schools around the world. In Australia we studied it in our final year of high-school for English. Of-course it's not studied in EVERY classroom for English but it's one of the choices for teachers to choose.

[@Ketraar]

More than the message this movie ooozes style, which is why its one of my favorites, not because it has a deep philosophical message, but because it has Hugo Weaving make a Oscar winning performance while wearing a mask ALL THE TIME! Movies need to be an experience and often style is more than enough for it to be great. Mad Max Fury Road, Dunkirk, 1917, etc all movies that are not reallyl that deep, but are excellent movies for their style, be it sound or visuals (or both).

[@v-trigger6137]

by that logic, every Snyder movie is a masterpiece 🤔 lol

[@Ketraar]

@@v-trigger6137 Well I guess I forgot to mentioned it needs to have good style.

[@Stratocasterhead51]

Just because a movie is as simple as good vs evil does not mean it lacks substance. A film does not need plot twists, subversion and immense moral ambiguity to be deemed DEEP. The themes in this movie are clearly defined and respected, the plot progression is logical, the exposition is delivered without the usual hamfisted approach of hollywood movies, the music is exquisite, the visuals are stunning, the acting is oscar winning quite litterally and the dialogue is on point. Im not saying the movie is perfect, but i wish people wouldnt bash movies which dont incorporate subversion and character moral ambiguity. Many would in fact argue that the film version has a more pertinent and realistic way in which the Norsefire party rises to power.

[@ussliberty8898]

@@v-trigger6137 Yes.

[@elevenseven-yq4vu]

​@@Stratocasterhead51This is open to interpretation. I would argue that the comic book shows much better how the Norsefire party upholds it's power - not only by violence, but by offering the people a belief system that they can use to rationalize and morally excuse their opportunistic deeds, cruelty, cowardice and denial of personal responsibility with, all the while participating in an illusion of invincible collective power.

[@RaySquirrel]

I always thought that V’s “Land of Do-As-You-Please” was an allusion to Alister Crowley’s quote “Do as thow wilt shall be the whole of the law.”

[@bruceleroywayne]

it is kind of eerily the same thing

[@primarytrainer1]

It is and Evey calls him out on quoting Crowley in the comic book

[@ragefury1817]

*thou

[@upublic]

wait what? i hear the exact opposite. If you strive to behave according to principles that all men can follow, you end up diametrically opposite to "might makes right" the rule of the strongest over the weakest

[@erwin669]

Crowley's "do what thou wilt" is probably one of the biggest misunderstandings out there. It does not mean "do what you want". In Crowley's theology the Will is the part of the human conscious that is closest to god. Doing "what thou wilt" is, in the most basic terms, discovering and fulfilling what is one's destiny.

[@UncleHyena]

I know Wisecrack said the video isn’t meant to be relevant to today but something V said, spoke to me “People shouldn’t be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people” god, they way I see that police force suppressing, it’s just a little too much

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

It's what the second amendment is for, friend. It was always about stopping a government from tyranny. Here's another quote: "The tree of liberty must be nourished from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[@freman007]

From Thomas Jefferson. "The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. yet where does this anarchy exist? where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? and can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. they were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. god forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. the people cannot be all, & always, well informed. the past which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive; if they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. we have had 13. states independant 11. years. there has been one rebellion. that comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. what country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it’s natural manure." www.snopes.com/fact-check/thomas-jefferson-tree-of-liberty/ However, remember for the most part people prefer to live in peace. Moreover the states with most of the guns are not affected much by riots (because they have most of the guns). It is state governments, mainly Democrat (as Talcum X, Shaun King himself noted) that have become the enablers of destructive rioting. I'm not sure why they do it. Do they expect their Democrat voting citizens, seeing the rioting and destruction enabled by their Democrat governors and mayors, destruction cheered on by the Democrat party and celebrities, to still vote Democrat in December? Do they really believe their citizens are that stupid? Mayor Frey, of Minneapolis, has asked for $55 million from state and federal coffers to rebuild. He should probably have thought of that before letting all the rioting take place.

[@UncleHyena]

@@freman007 Good ole TJ

[@not_George]

I still can't believe Warner Bros distributed this movie. That as deep as Hollywood will ever go. Despite the fact that Alan Moore denounced it, I can't ignore the fact that this is one of the extremely few movies that praise anti-authoritarianism. Ideas and values vs leaders and heroes. It doesn't matter who V is, you'll never see his face. It's what he stands for. Justice. Everyone wearing the mask and sacrificing their individualism over the collective. Yes V did monstrous things but the difference is he never holds his power and authority.. He sacrifices himself. Let's make the distinction between anarchy and anarchism. Anarchism does not mean the lack of governance. It means destroying power as much as possible by constantly distributing it as widely as possible and never holding onto it, until all hierarchies seize to exist.

[@Stormwern]

There's plenty of substance in the film, they just don't have an infinite amount of time.

[@elevenseven-yq4vu]

As a standalone movie it is a masterpiece, as an adaptation it has many flaws and waters down a lot of what makes the comic great, its narrative nuance, analytic sharpness, moral ambiguity, psychological and political insight, its clever detective mystery plot, its haunting world building, its dark humour, its deadpan satiric undertones, and for these purposes a miniseries might have been a format better suited to honor, do justice to and shine a better light on the source material in terms of scope, build-up, character development, balance, pacing and nuance as well as its philosophical, political and psychological depth, especially as expressed in the person of Finch (as he slowly turns to face the shadow side of the regime and his own role in it), the (organisational/semiotic) political branches or "organs" of the Norsefire party, the relentless guerilla warfare tactics and political strategies V utilises to strike at the very core of Norsefire's organization, identity, ideology, power structure and propaganda assets, and the persona of V himself who hides his personal agenda and motives of vengeance beneath a cloak of ideological moralism and idealistic rigor, trying to justify the means to his own end.

[@julietabubo4714]

Coincidence , I just recently watch this movie. I got chills seeing the v for vendetta reflects the events occuring today.

[@JonasAnandaKristiansson]

Pure quality, showing us the GLOBAL New World Order technocratic fascism of the "elites". Time for humanity to wake up.

[@pyotrkropotkin406]

Anarchy is a world of rules without rulers. We don't need rulers, but we do need rules.

[@alicebnuuy6155]

thank you bread santa o7

[@pyotrkropotkin406]

@@alicebnuuy6155 🥐🥯🍞🥖🥨🎅👍

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

yeah but you also need people to enforce those rules or else whose gonna follow them? Can't really just "take them word for it" that they would follow.

[@mr.cocobuttz5629]

LudicrousKid people are indoctrinated to follow rules , not forced to follow them. In anachristic community it would work just the same, just the community collectively would enforce the rules not the state

[@pyotrkropotkin406]

@@Gadget-Walkmen Mr. Cocobuttz is correct. Read "The Conquest of Bread" and "Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution" by Peter Kropotkin. You might like them.

[@capo_di_capi]

It is a classic love story with a mind bending twist, full of memorable quotes that keeps the audience guessing until the end, Films like this are simply not made anymore. Instant classic!

[@swatchedlimpune6668]

Bro you HAVE to read the graphic novel. It’s on a completely different level.

[@desmondgentle1474]

Does Alan Moore like any adaptation of his works? He dislikes 'V for Vendetta', 'Watchmen', 'The Killing Joke'.... Is there an adaptation of his work that he actually likes?

[@lukostello]

I think they would have been more nuanced about it if it was a longer format but given that it is a condensed film I think the sacrifices they made were appropriate.

[@LukaSzent]

Literally watched this movie again tonight! I love this movie, even memorized V’s monologue.

[@shindari]

Okay, so here's the thing... Yes, I am completely aware (especially now, after watching the video) that there are MAJOR differentials in the telling of both the comic series, and the motion picture. But those differences did not do anything to wreck the film, IMO! "V for Vendetta," the movie, is still one of my favorite "political" superhero films I've ever seen. I enjoy the living the crap out of it! And despite its' watered down "Hollywood" adaptation, still very much portrays how easily a Democracy can "go wrong," and turn into a dictatorship. I always looked at Norsefire's rise to power in much the same way that the Nazis rose to power. That's as clear through the film, as it is through the comic. Alan Moore didn't "Watchmen" either. But I think that movie is pretty effing awesome too. I just think Moore is a "perfectionist," who has this romantic desire to see his own creations be rendered perfectly, from book to film, with no deviations, or translations. Alan Moore needs to realize that this is impossible. Even the most faithful book adaptations of all time needed to be "redone" at certain points, in order for the film to be okayed for filming in the first place. You could fill a LAUNDRY LIST of ways in which the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy is drastically different from the original book trilogy, yet fans still loved it completely! I believe that comparison is apt, in this case. Because I love BOTH the book and the film version of "V." It doesn't torture me that there's a difference. In fact, I believe more value is ADDED to each source BECAUSE of the differences. Each has their own story to tell. And both should be heeded. So yes, the movie is different from the book. But each source of the story is awesome in their own way...

[@AT-mr8tz]

4

[@AT-mr8tz]

5

[@petermullen3102]

I read V in the 80s and I had a problem with the hero. The whole Anarchy thing was just not my bag. While I liked the bad guys better in the comic, I'll take the hero from the movie. But I do agree that the oversimplification of the bad guys does something to water down the message... Authoritarianism CAN happen, and it can happen with people who have good intentions and who are not "evil" in their own minds. That message is lost in the movie and it is a shame.

[@TheCrimsonCat89]

Deep. Both the graphic novel and the film are pertinent for current times right now.

[@MountainSilver]

Peaceful protests that drowned a disabled kid in a toilet because of politics. Super peaceful.

[@douglasj5490]

I think some important points are: - Moore didn't watch the movie. - He barely remembers the comic, what can be noticed on many interviews. Guys, I looooooooooooooooooooove your videos about comic book stories. Two of my favorites are the ones about Alan Moore and Grant Morrison's philosophy. I just wish so much you considered making it about comics without the necessary need of them have being adapted to a movie. There's plenty of interesting things to cover, I sure you guys would do better than anybody else! You could cover Hickmann, Kirby, Scalp, Sandman, Hellblazer, soooooooooooooooooo many things, it's a whole world of great subjects! Love from Brazil!

[@jackmckee6386]

I second this!

[@apurplearcher4806]

People: Are you a Democrat or Republican? Me: I'm just here for the revolution.

[@gregcleveland7390]

🌴🗽

[@EmperorSeramir]

I'm independent.

[@matiasbrevisfey5466]

I find it completely preposterous to compare something that happened in a movie to a political party people using movies for proof of what's happening right now.

[@viola308]

@@matiasbrevisfey5466 killing a rapist≠a reason for a revolution

[@ashiel035]

Isn't it kind of funny in the movie how V says that it was a miracle that cure for the virus after Settler was elected. Biden won and now all democrats want to open back the economy because the vaccine is now out thanks to Biden.

[@vvitchyfish]

This movie will forever will hold a special place in my heart; my dad showed me this movie when I was younger and emphasized that this is what our modern-day society will end up if the change is not made. I think about that daily as our day-to-day are beginning to morph into this society. While this movie still stands up to what it is, I wasn't a huge fan of the overwhelming "love" interest in the movie. While the comics and movie hold two different standing points, they do show different sides of the story - Evey represents/is an embodiment a side of V in the film and even in the comics.

[@jiiaga5017]

The most important part of the movie is when V gives the choice to Evey, because she is going to have to live with the choice, whereas for V the choice would mostly satisfy his personal hatred and wounds but wouldn't reflect and be made giving future consequences for everyone else their due consideration. Beyond the left/right pageantry that we are all shown every day, THIS SCENE represents a fundamental truth and observation about the current US and many other political systems - controlled by people disassociated from the consequences of their choices, who will not have to live with the future results of their decisions, only concerned with their personal power and scoring "points" against their opposition and serving their donors over their actual constituents.

[@elyca6329]

This was one of the first movies that had an impact on me, that made me question my society. It is still one of my favorite movies to this day (a bit out of nostalgia). I watched it with my father when I was 14 and we had no clue at the time... but we actually watched it on a November 5th. I kid you not.

[@Vexclorion]

Saw it as a preteen, effected where I went with my career, people I've helped, politics I have now. Good take on it, gg wisecrack

[@xvxvvv8924]

"People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.” "Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order and everything becomes chaos"

[@crazydog3307]

"And all the normal people who just want to live their little lives, will become monsters"

[@ralphgarcia8208]

There government was fucked up

[@MarcoTalin12]

The movie is definitely more inspirational than challenging, more "Rise up" than "What are your beliefs?". It's good for introducing the ideas of anti-fascism and revolutionary thinking without then immediately challenging those ideas. It's made for a general audience, which is what you try to aim for in theatrically released movies like these, and if you want to get a more complex story about the subject matter, the graphic novel with the same name is available for your consumption.

[@jmpayne333]

As someone who’s business was burnt to the ground and personally attacked for no reason, the “protests” I saw were not mostly peaceful. Every night myself and my family was scared to leave our house. We used neighbors whos windows were busted out, car tires slashed, people receiving death threats and intimidated everywhere they went. That is not peaceful at all so please stop saying that. I did see peaceful protests but many of the same people protesting during the day were destroying and threatening people at night.

[@theredhood1856]

0:20 overwhelmingly violent

[@CJ_Bell]

I think it was accurate in spirit. In the movie version, V is constantly using his diatribes to subdue the plot from overtaking the film. Mirroring Moore's use of dialog bubbles to subdue the graphics from overtaking his novels =p

[@ألتعليقألنقدي]

philosophy aside that scene at the end when he killed those armed man was masterful Specially after he was done and removed that chest plate ahhh come on who’s writing this shit And the V speech don’t ever forget about The. V speech

[@youtradvostraductions3082]

The chest plate's trick was directly taken from Leone's "A fistful of dollars" ;) but to be fair, Leone's movie also was inspired by Kurosawa's samurai movie Yojimbo (don't know if the plate's trick was also in that movie, didn't see it)

[@elevenseven-yq4vu]

As a standalone movie it is a masterpiece, as an adaptation it has many flaws and waters down a lot of what makes the comic great, its narrative nuance, analytic sharpness, moral ambiguity, psychological and political insight, its clever detective mystery plot, its haunting world building, its dark humour, its deadpan satiric undertones.

[@KainGerc]

Yeah, the original graphic novel is deeper and more thought provoking. But it's also a much tougher sell for the general movie going audience. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't love a more faithful adaptation as a mini series or something.

[@samuellawrence4334]

0:26 completely unrelated to the video, but one thing this pandemic has shoved in my face is just how important community is. I feel like before this we were all so caught up in the day to day, and we were so used to drowning ourselves in social media after a long day, but with so many of us stuck at home for nearly 3 months now, it has made me realize that we’re all superficially connected but that we’re truly disconnected on a personal level. I miss people. Not even my friends necessarily, just people: Strangers.

[@nameredacted1448]

My god this movie is sadly relevant today😔

[@Jedi_Are_Scum]

Especially in China. Thanks to them corrupting THE WHO, and purposefully sending the virus over here. Ask yourself why they'd do it. And the answer may lie in this movie. To stir shit up.

[@CribNotes]

Only 45 seconds in and I'm going to guess this analysis will be corporate military state safe. Okay, I'm finished and yep! Being no threat at all, this analysis gets a thumbs up from the corporate military state! Yay! No mention at all of how the 2005 FILM version of V for Vendetta has proved to be so spooky prescient. No mention at all. Very interesting. Does this guy own a lot of Big Pharma stock?

[@johnbarker8305]

The comic's most interesting character is Finch. Finch walks away from Norsefire because he has learned he was, to quote Mitchell & Webb, "the baddie". Vee is unrelenting chaos Evey becomes the unsympathetic anarchy - Finch regains his humanity Finch is the good guy, in the end

[@johnmanole4779]

"Peaceful protesters "

[@coldermusic2729]

If compared to the comic, it could have been better. But when you look at it as an individual art piece, it is an amazing film that everyone should watch. I enjoyed it, but understand where the creator of the comic is coming from. Ps. However, he should know that it could have been a MUCH worse adaptation. He should be proud that it was still enjoyed by millions, unlike some adaptations that we frown upon (even when looked as an individual film).

[@leetlemahn111]

People forget that in an anarchist system you're still punished by those around you, it's just that it isn't state controlled. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a pretty incredible novel the depicts this

[@deaks25]

I think you hit on why there were such big changes to the how's and why's: translating a three-part graphic novel into a slightly over two hour movie. Getting all the back story and character parallels fleshed out AND make a concluded story in that time is impossible to do thoroughly.

[@theunderdawg.]

I think this is a bit too critical of the film, while yes some of the elements of the original storytelling are lost, there is only so much that can be fit into a 2 hour 12 minute run time without it feeling like a confusing ideological mess, and instead presents us with a still morally obscure freedom fighter bringing an end to a totalitarian regime.

[@j0an-07-arc6]

Funny I just finished watching the movie right now it’s a masterpiece

[@SpinelliAdams]

Same

[@halcyon5zippo]

The character stuff still works and the visual tapestry is still impressive.

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

Still my favorite film. It has it flaws, but it's still stands out as a film with great harmony: compelling characters, engagin plot, mind provoking themes, powerful symbols, and the balancing of all these together.

[@rorylynch1203]

I always cry at the end seeing humanity rise against tyranny

[@emin62bek]

It’s beautiful

[@mrheisenberg83]

Remember, remember to vote this November.

[@007kingifrit]

trump 2020!

[@mrheisenberg83]

@@007kingifrit *sigh* Dumpster Fire 2020!

[@jan-jaaphaasnoot2579]

All being said, the world did become more interesting since his election. And it's not even the weak version of a book. Nah but in all honesty you should know that your political system doesn't work, and voting wont change that. You can choose between more of the same or the same. Trumps election just paved the way for the lower and middle class to accept the plans that were already going to happen without too much trouble. Give the world a wall to focus on, and no one notices the actions that really affect the people.

[@mrheisenberg83]

@Nino Filiu funny story? me neither. they should still vote though.

[@prettyvacant3605]

Every vote is a vote for Deep State

[@rachumsmcone9184]

Loved that movie, always thought it was deep. Loved the performance of Hugo Weaving especially. If it could be adapted into a mini series perhaps they could do the nuances of Alan Moore's original work more justice. I felt like there were some very nicely expressed themes in the toned down movie version however, was even thinking of looking it up on Netflix to watch since its been a while as well as just how the pandemic has made me think of it.

[@Jedi_Are_Scum]

Funny, I noticed 2 days ago. Netflix just happened to put this movie up. I've been looking for it lately due to the parallels.

[@rachumsmcone9184]

@@Jedi_Are_Scum The parallels are almost uncanny aren't they?

[@SnzyBat]

Reality is often greyer than how its portrayed in the movie, I think you missed the point of the video, also, producers wont let ideas that suggest there's no clear good and clear evil spread.

[@rachumsmcone9184]

@@SnzyBat so can I not willingly and knowingly engage in escapism from reality when I watch a movie I just enjoy? Reality is of course greyer then that and there are depictions of art that capture that well. Is it not possible to enjoy the trope as well as it's deconstruction?

[@rachumsmcone9184]

@@SnzyBat also, why wait on the smoke and mirrors of Hollywood? If platforms like KZbin have done nothing else in spite of their questionable advertisement marketing practices in terms of who should be demonetized, it has shown that there are those with the talent and patreons to produce wherever one may be. We could kickstart a better studio or production house anywhere with enough support from even just a few thousand.

[@diegomontesleon136]

Jared showing concern for his audience's safety and mental health was the kind of kindness that made my day.

[@josh.christian]

"Because while the trucheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always have their power. Words offer the means to meaning and, for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth." -V

[@greatscott369]

This movie was taken down from everywhere online just prior to the pandemic. I spent a lot of time trying to find it.

[@Kaylakaze]

I think what we've learned from reality is that sometimes the fascists really are cartoon-villain evil.

[@LoganBluth]

The biggest problem isn't that the movie depicted fascists as cartoon-villain evil, it's that it depicted them as a small group of 8-10 people who conned an entire country into giving them power using a dumb supervillain pandemic plot. It implies that the entire general population are just innocent victims who are basically good and who would rise up and overthrow them if they only knew the truth. That is sadly not indicative of reality, most fascist regimes are voted in completely legally and with full support of a large proportion of the public. Christ, the world is depressing. 😞

[@Kaylakaze]

@@LoganBluth I didn't get that impression at all. There were clearly huge swathes of people complicit.

[@LoganBluth]

@@Kaylakaze They showed members of the military and police being complicit, NOT the general public. The worst you could say of the general public in this movie is that some of them were too frightened to object which still places them in the category of "victim" rather than "willing participant". The movie still pushes an "us vs them" absolutist philosophy of "Regular People/Revolutionaries = GOOD; Government/Authority = BAD" which is a dangerously naive mindset in my opinion. If you thought the movie had more nuance than that that's fine, I'm not a professional film analyst and you're completely entitled to your own opinion. I just personally found the movie very lacking in comparison to the original source material.

[@That80sGuy1972]

That is true but people only see that in hindsight... which only seems to be the 20/20 hindsight among the masses once facts stay as the propaganda smoke clears (metaphorically speaking).

[@BeaverChainsaw]

@@LoganBluth well he did say that something about how if you want someone to blame, look into the mirror. He also says how people let him take power just to find any way to alleviate the wounds.

[@relshdan191]

imagine limiting this movie to BLM protests

[@KingHoborg]

I'll preface this by saying I haven't read the original source material, but I guess this is a case of people interpreting it in different ways. I don't understand how can anyone look at V (in the movie) and say he's a hero? I never did, even when I watched it for the first time when I was 13. He had extreme ideals, and resorted to acts of terrorism. He tortured and manipulated an innocent person, and we can't be certain if the ends justify the means. He murdered people, not just the governmental figures but police officers that were just doing their job (I'm not going to argue whether they 'deserved' it, but it was extrajudicial murder). He was a terrorist, even threatening people with live explosives to get them to do what he wants. We don't even know if his ideals translated to the people he got to rise up against the government, the movie ends before we see the result of those efforts. To me, that moral ambiguity is still there. From what I understand the government is a little more evil and V is a little more good, but it's still not a clear cut case of right and wrong. V is VERY wrong at times. And remember that not all people in the party were evil. Inspector dude wasn't, and I think that the blonde PR guy (Dascomb?) was more of a complicit neutral party, just doing his job (and a damn good one at that considering the circumstances).

[@GabeBful]

While in the book Moore does give both V and Susan erotic fixations with their respective ideals, Justice and Fate, I think one of the ways Moore values V's position is more is by making his relationship with justice a self-aware, camp performance, an act of play. It's as if Moore is saying, "Yes, both anarchism and fascism have their underlying erotic attachment driving them! But with fascism the erotics are repressed, unconscious, they control the fascist rather than the other way round. With anarchy the erotics are known consciously, can be played out in performance, or with art. (at least when it's done right).

[@elevenseven-yq4vu]

Well observed and well said!

[@LawrenceKassab]

Been waiting for this. Love this movie.

[@TrippyAssassin8]

Before watching: I will always love V for Vendetta!!! 13:03 relative to its potential, V for Vendetta is a dumb movie, but ill always love it