V-MAX BALLISTIC GEL TEST ~ .22 WMR vs .17 HMR

.22 Magnum vs .17 HMR with some .22lr CCI Stingers thrown in for comparison from 100 yards into 10% gelatin.
This video was recorded at The Buffalo Range.
No firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories are offered for sale in this video or video description. There are no links provided to sites where firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories are available for sale.
This video complies, to the best of my knowledge, with all KZbin community guidelines.
This is a viewer funded channel. Support Buffalo's Outdoors on Patreon - / buffalosoutdoors
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For bits of my everyday life check out my other KZbin channel, it's called Down On The Range-- / @downontherange
Thanks to Greg Wilson and his daughter Megan for providing the banjo music. - • Buffalo Chimes
Disclaimer: My videos are for entertainment purposes only, imitation or the use of any instruction shown in this video is done at your own risk. Buffalo's Outdoors/BMCTrip or any other party involved in the making of this video will not be held liable for any injury to yourself (or others) or damage to your firearms resulting from attempting anything shown in this video or any of my videos. I am now accepting friend requests on my personal FB page as well- / jwcfordtruck

[@Kavika-xh1qj]

Listening to someone with an Appalachian accent talk about guns, gives so much credibility to what they are saying. It’s like listening to someone with a French accent talk about food, or someone with a German accent talk about machining. Great video! Thank you!

[@garychiuminatto917]

No need to apologize for the camera work it’s perfectly ok for what you are doing. If people want to criticize or complain they can make their own video and we’ll see how good they are. Enjoyed your work, I’m a big fan of 22wm and it was very informative. Thanks keep up the good work.

[@tccurtis2932]

Or they could buy him one and send it to him...

[@TheKentuckyPatriot]

Those chickens look very well trained and highly protective!

[@buffalosoutdoors]

LOL They sure are! Thanks buddy!

[@georgiobenelli4854]

Also potentially delishious

[@laa0fa502]

Jesus dude everytime I look up a rounds ballistic test this guy's doing it. I love this dude I hope he keeps doing 22 rounds

[@Paraaronoid]

I love the consistency across both videos... .22WMR V-Max 30 grain produced a 15" long channel...BOTH TESTS!

[@chrissimmonds4898]

Those wound channels are like night and day. I’d definitely go with the magnum.

[@tomdoherty2485]

I believe if you use a semiautomatic in any gel testing you will lose velocity.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Somethings very wrong with his testing. I've been a big fan of the CCI Stinger since it was introduced in 1975. Whether fired in 6" revolvers or 4" auto pistol, the Stinger has been devastating. Far more devastating than a .22 LR traditional HP from a rifle. The traditional .22LR HP from a rifle was unreliable on 8 pound jackrabbits running. But a Stinger from a pistol drops them. Stingers are also very accurate. I think the problem lies in the "ballistic gel" he's using. It's not going to trump 49 years of experience of great performance on live critters.

[@joshrandall3632]

​@@LuvBorderColliesStingers are slower from a pistol than any HP from a rifle and they are lighter to boot. They're also absolute bottom of the barrel accuracy wise. This "devastating" performance might be the result of confirmation bias.

[@mrnickbig1]

I bet the CCI Maxi Mag TNT would expand well in this test.

[@justanobserver530]

Depends on what you're hunting. So far I haven't come across any animal that I would shoot with a 22wmr that I wouldn't shoot with a 17hmr. There aren't any animals made of jello....ok really thick jello. A 17hmr will go through a treated 4X4 but a 22wmr will not.(using fmj in both). So are you convinced that 17hmr is better now? I'm not because I don't know of any animal that's wood either. Also, the few animals that I have shot and cleaned, that the 22wmr didn't blow through, the bullets expanded. The animals I've cleaned after shooting them with the 17hmr have had more than adequate penetration and lost a lot more blood. The downside of the 17hmr is, unless you get a head shot, you're going to lose meat. So it really is, what are you hunting?

[@rossgreenzweig]

The 17hmr is an awesome little round, very accurate.

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Agreed. Thanks!

[@BB-1990]

Ya, the HK 4.6x30mm would be awesome, if it gains any steam. A hand gun in it would be just as nice as the 5.7x28mm.

[@kirkmorrison6131]

I like the 17 HMR, but it blows up rabbits and squirrels if I mess up on a head shot. The 22 mag at least leaves the hind quarters if the shot isn't perfect at 50 to 75 yards. I love the 17 HMR for Whistle Pigs (Groundhogs) and similar size pest on the farm. They both are great rounds and have their place in my collection. Since it is all but impossible, to find 25 Stevens now I use the HMR in its place. When I got the Stevens Favorite I had 1500 rounds that I inherited also and now I only have 2 unopened boxes in my collection. I'm hoping on of the companies will do a run of them again as they have done every 20 or 30 years.

[@barbarafike4487]

very exspensive too

[@roydunn4649]

@@barbarafike4487 way less expensive than 22 mag here

[@MrS22222]

I'm personally very happy with the results from the .22 magnum, 15 inches of penetration is perfect.

[@kubanskiloewe]

indeed ! and the wound hole is quite the same as a expanded 17HMR but longer ! Now imagine a bone is in between....no chance for the 17HMR but the 22Mag has a good chance to splitt it and expand itself !

[@MrS22222]

@APEX PREDATOR that's fine, it's a 40gr 100 yards away.

[@gradyhernandez4699]

22 hornet

[@slimjim7411]

@@kubanskiloewe Actually the .17hmr tends to blow right through bone. It's the preferred MS poacher round because a head shot on a whitetail just drops it instantly. A .22lr still needs shot placement even in the brain cavity to drop the animal. Also I've seen it shot at ballistic glass and it penetrates.

[@bryanbiltoft8141]

That's 15" with no bones and consistent density throughout.

[@gvii]

Holy cow, an actual clear block of ballistic gel! I can't remember the last time I saw someone do a video with a block that didn't look like a fishtank full of oatmeal! I'm kidding, I know they are absurdly expensive and I really do understand why people use them until they are practically dark brown. But it is mice to see a new one once in a while, lol...

[@buffalosoutdoors]

LOL I know what you mean. I love a brand new fresh gel block!

[@greggriffin3882]

Very 'mice' 👌😂

[@schooly9615]

Jesus Christ loves you and everyone

[@schooly9615]

@@greggriffin3882 Jesus Christ loves you and everyone

[@stillededge]

I think they are two different blocks. The clear on is silicone based and the brown ones are animal/bone/soup or some such?

[@skyraider1776]

Thank you for another outstanding video with excellent hands-on analysis. I confess that didn't pay much mind to the 17HMR when it came out 20 years ago but it's hard to deny the expansion of those 17gr Hornady rounds !! I can definitely see why it has steadily grown in popularity.

[@badgerrrlattin35]

Been using 22 mag for since the mid 70's. Strongly recommend the Winchester 40 gr hollow point for expansion.

[@csguerdet]

Bought a ruger American and a1000 of that ammo. Sometimes the rim expands a the ejector can’t grab it. Sent in twice before I realized it was the ammo.

[@bobhamilton7472]

Yes, I have found the same results with the 22 magnum Winchester hollow points. In fact, they were the only 22 magnum load that expanded at all!

[@fuzztsimmers3415]

I hate winchester ammo i avoid it as much as possible.

[@ChuckinTV]

I'm loving these videos on 22WMR ballistics. It is my preferred rimfire cartridge for woodchucks. I have no issues putting chucks down in their tracks inside 150yds. But I had no idea that the bullets weren't expanding at all past 100yds. I'd like to see some 50 yard gel block results with the 22 mag. Maybe the expansion will be more apparent. Plus 50 yards is a pretty common distance when hunting varmints.

[@mdnghtrdr79]

I shoot varmints with 22 mag vmax and it always expands. Flesh and gel are very different. It levels anything at 100yds with no pass through. I dropped about a 75lb coyote at 40ish yards. It expanded perfectly and almost passed through.

[@jordanhicks5131]

@@mdnghtrdr79 75 pounds 🙄 you'd have a world record if you got anywhere close to that. I'd believe 40 pounds

[@harrydick3300]

@@jordanhicks5131 you should see the ones on camp Pendleton CA that eat the Marines MREs with 4,000 calories in them out of the dumpsters, we used to watch them come in at night and then leave in the morning using our taps and revelle announcements daily, this was back in 2008 before I got out in 2010 after my third and final deployment in Helmand Afghanistan.

[@stephenwarren55]

That particular Hornady bullet didn't expand. A copper clad, led hollow point would do better, but the ballistics wouldn't be as good as that particular hornady bullet. And the .17 only expanded to the same diameter of the .22 mag. Good observation, though!

[@Cal3b587]

​​@jordanhicks5131 eastern coyotes average around 40 pounds

[@rg58]

If you get a chance, try the 22 Magnum at 25, 50, and 75 yards and see if the lack of expansion is due to the drop in velocity at 100. This will determine what the max usable range if your purpose needs expansion.

[@henriknielsen9674]

Can you imagine the energy dump from the 17 hmr at 25 yards 😳😂

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@henriknielsen9674 "dump" is the new word for "transfer." I'm just gonna dump this wheelbarrow of energy over here someplace, if you don't mind.

[@meme8315]

22 mag all day.

[@MegaBait1616]

@@meme8315 , yep.......

[@clinte9897]

I came to say same thing, I bet at 50 yds or less very different results

[@billwiley7216]

The .22mag had a much longer larger "wound" channel in the gel than the .17 even though the .22 mag did not expand like the .17 did. Also if expansion is what you are looking for there are 30gr .22wmr hollow point choices as well that may fit the bill. For an overall better round that is capable of taking down somewhat larger critters as well I will take the .22wmr with its wider choice of projectile types and weights over the .17 everyday of the week.

[@rafaelbinotto]

One more question, there are differences between round point and rifle point like .22 and .17hmr?

[@mikemoonman1940]

If penitration is what you want the 17 has full metal jackets that will out do the 22wmr

[@45CaliberCure]

The first non-pellet gun I ever owned was in .22 WMR, because my parents didn't know it wasn't just a .22 LR, which they'd meant to buy me. I misjudged the penetrating characteristics when I draped my house key fob over a 2x4 and ended up cutting the key hanging over the backside of the board in half. Luckily, by then they were enured to the fact that they'd had a bit of a slow child. Thank you for the fine video, as always.

[@fritzruttimann1517]

I am always impressed by the power these small and rather cheap calibre rounds can achieve.

[@pravoslavn]

Another winner from da Buffalo Man ! ☺

[@buffalosoutdoors]

I appreciate ya!

[@williamtarr9758]

17 hmr and 17 wsm are hands down the best rimfire rounds especially for coyotes and small game

[@prowler10393]

This test needs to be run on the Paul Harrell meat target. You'll get expansion on the 40gr maxi mags then. 22 mag is meant for thicker bones. Put up water jugs at 50 yards and you'll get similar results showing minimal expansion with the 40gr JHP. You'll deform the tip but the base will be intact. 40gr JHP needs real tissue and bone for expansion. It does really well on live targets. Ballistic gel doesn't tell you much. At 150-160 yards a 17hmr is basically a BB gun whereas the 22 mag is still putting down good power.

[@kubanskiloewe]

this !

[@jasonsliger5430]

I've shot armadillos with that round, it'll open the shell up to where it looks like you used a manual can opener. He needs to set some kind of barrier in front of the gel block.

[@roydunn4649]

.17 will kill small game reliably at 200 yds. Proven

[@prowler10393]

@@roydunn4649 define "small game" and ethical kills. I heard people talking about taking groundhogs at 200 yards+ with the 17HMR and I have to laugh. Those little bullets run out of steam past 150. There's plenty of videos on KZbin showing what happens in soft targets at that distance. The velocity drops below expansion threshold. I enjoy the 17 a lot, but at that distance atleast with the 22wmr you have a bigger hole being punched in game.

[@roydunn4649]

@@prowler10393 Small game is edible small animals. I consider large squirrels, racoons, possums etc to be small game. SO I am not looking for a larger hole. I am looking at accuracy for my purposes. I am also not taking into account wind etc. With accurate shot placement looking for the most ethical kill with the most edible meat left, I choose the .17 hmr. I have seen people in real life, not KZbin, hit and kill small game at 150+ yards with my exact same rifle. Just a Savage .17 from BiMart with a decent 4-12 scope. Myself, living in western Oregon, I really do not shoot at that distance as my shooting is in the woods. My longer shots are on Deer or elk with either my .308 or 6.5 Creedmore. Although within 100 yds, in a SURVIVAL situation, I am confident that I could take down a deer with the .17. For the average shooter I would not recommend it. The .17 needs accurate shot placement if used for edible game. Most averaged shooters do not know their firearm well enough to confidently go after ground squirrels with a headshot except at very close range. I am confident enough out to around 75 yds, BUT I shoot quite a bit and knowmy setup extremely well. Remember .22 is not advised for anything above small game, but more deer have been shot out of season with .22's than most country people willl admit to. Shot placement is key with any firearm when hunting things to eat, a second shot is never ever guaranteed.

[@timothystallings7191]

Need to do 17 wsm to see how far it goes Through the Ballistics jail compared to 22 mag

[@TheInvstg8r]

I think the 22 Mag did excellent and would perform great on larger predators and game.

[@ktmkaratechips]

I’ve popped a couple coyotes around the 120 yard mark and none of them went anywhere. 22 mag is awesome

[@realblakrawb]

Sold an hmr and built a wmr just based on terminal performance. Hmr is fun for blowing up rodents.

[@roydunn4649]

@@realblakrawb On edible rodents, ground squirrells etc, .17 Hmr is excellent for headshots and not wasting meat. I cant imagine shooting an animal just to 'blow' them up. the only reason to use a firearm- practice, self defense, hunting animals to actually eat.

[@roninkraut6873]

@@roydunn4649 Unless, of course, you have an infestation and have to destroy a lot of them

[@roydunn4649]

@@roninkraut6873 unless it's edible or a target I don't shoot it. What you do is up to you

[@theshootindutchman]

Your comment on the lack of expansion in the . 22 Magnum is taken to heart! It really is shocking that a hollow point at 2200 fps muzzle velocity won't expand AT ALL🤔😒. Many KZbin videos show 25 yds. and still NO expansion. Bring an air rifle shooter/Hunter as well, I can tell you it's simply a problem with the leaf being too HARD. Airgun pellet and slug makers get full expansion at just 900 fps because they use soft lead in the projectile. It's high time rimfire ammunition makers change this!

[@outinthesticks1035]

I can remember years back a manufacturer came out with .25 caliber handgun rounds that would expand . The had a steel pellet in front of a cavity in the nose of the bullet . Don't recall if they were any good , but tests showed that expansion was satisfactory even down to 700 fps

[@jamestaylor4951]

The CCI 40 grain hollowpoint for the 22 Magnum should expand a lot better. At least that has been my experience.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

Mine too. It is my go-to for chucks and beavers.

[@alicebutch756]

Believe it or not but at 100 yards with the winchester superx, far superior on wood chucks

[@Don.E.63]

TNT bombs in .22 mag are my favorite, 30 grain speer bullet with a large hollow point, these outperformed the hornady in my testing.

[@michaelware7294]

I've tried the Hornady 30g in my magnum and don't like it due to lack of expansion. I use it on rabbits and they are quite often sitting on their Warren so u want a fast kill. The Winchester power point and cci cause way more damage.... speaks for its self and for some reason the Winchester ammo groups best through my mag

[@commoncorysense1809]

@@michaelware7294 just curious what the rifle is that likes Winnie’s better? Twist rate maybe? Thanks

[@silverback3926]

Roster wont give you a break. Too funny. Another great video

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed it! That rooster is a menace!

[@pravoslavn]

#4 Buck on that silly Rooster ! There will be a puff of feathers and... no more Rooster !

[@The_Chad_Davis]

Need an actual hp for 22wmr expansion. Take it all day over 17hmr. The 17 will deflect and not penetrate more than half the time when it contacts ANY bone. 22wmr is the most underrated round out there. Best overall survival rifle round available.

[@ethanjohnson7153]

Don’t forget the long rifle there’s some hot shells that fly very fast for what it is 1500 - 1640 out of stingers which is impressive I’m glad Ive read your comment because I’m caught in between getting a wmr or 17 and now I’m pretty dead set on the wmr

[@terryschiller2625]

WOW I am very surprised by those 22 mag no expansion at all.. Great video Buffalo.

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Thanks for watching Terry!

[@RR-uv3hu]

22mag didn’t expand but look at the wound cavity compared to the 17hmr

[@williamray5467]

But with in 100 yards the 17 hmr vmax ballistic tip really does massive damage, I've looked inside the hogs I've killed and it's beyond reason how much explosive energy that little bullet has. Past say 120yards I don't think I would even pull the trigger on a 100 lb er.

[@john-paulsilke893]

I had a bad hit on a large coyote and smacked him in the spine just in front of his hips. Almost put him in half, unfortunately he lived for way too long afterwards and crawled away down a cut. 2 1/2 minutes of pure agony and horror before I managed to get a second shot, this time on target. (CCI solid 20gr pill at 60 or so yards, down angle).

[@EstorilEm]

@@john-paulsilke893 Jesus if you’re taking shots at distances that make it that unreliable, it’s time to go up on caliber. That sucks, sounds brutal. 😕

[@EstorilEm]

@@williamray5467 I was able to see one expand in a groundhog with the xsight the other day. It’s FAR more crazy than any ballistics gel vid I’ve ever seen. It literally looked like an internal explosion. When I got to him, tiny entry wound, a drop of blood - that was it.

[@stormcrow7698]

I'm a mag man myself

[@maverickpaladin4155]

As mentioned, it depends on your intended purpose. The 6" of penetration is ideal for squirrels and other thin skinned rodents. The .22 WMR is a pretty good choice as a defensive rifle against larger predators and vermin where penetration is more important. The temporary wound cavity of that 2nd .22 WMR shot is impressive. I'd be curious to see what the 45 grain load would do.

[@maverickpaladin4155]

@@akatripclaymore.9679 really?!?...22WMR on bear?

[@maverickpaladin4155]

@@akatripclaymore.9679 lol...love that Golden Gate Park story.

[@maverickpaladin4155]

@@akatripclaymore.9679 😄😄😄 That's a great story. I wonder if the blood from the butchering was ever discovered.

[@akatripclaymore.9679]

@@maverickpaladin4155 I'm sure he used Tarps..he was a hunter since he was 12 so was I. He hung them for a few day's too, he said he had to tie both ends up because there were rat's & shot quite a few with a Steven's Crack shot in the basement then you could get" BB cap's" that is what he used. You think I'm BS ing you huh? "Whatever it really doesn't bother me", it is something not many people would believe today! How old are you, I'm 58 my mom & dad got me out of California in 67 Thank God! We moved to Coulee City Washington as he had a job waiting at Grand Coulee Dam. Where are you from & how old are you? I see you like Pink Floyd 😉 I remember when Dark Side of the moon came out it was EVERYWHERE. The Wall was Awesome, I've seen that movie tons of time's! Just Waiting for the Worm's now. Waiting to cut out the Deadwood, & Clean up the city! 😆

[@akatripclaymore.9679]

PALADIN PALADIN..Where do you roam?

[@martindrengenxbox360]

I am late to the party, but for good effect on soft targets, I recommend CCI segmented hollow point rounds. I fired one into a large bucket of water, it seperated as intended. It was one of the subsonic rounds as well. I did this test a few times and it was a similar result every time.

[@Huy_Nguyen_USA]

Indiana here, I remember when your channel had 2k subscribers, I’ve happy for you.

[@mikelastpass689]

I absolutely think the 22 Magnums wound cavity is King.

[@vinceoleyar9411]

I sometimes ponder the kings cavity of the 220 swift versus the 17wsm inadvertent strike force of the 308 magnum incendiary congruency to the obtuseness of the ever flatness of the .204 out to about 350 meters.

[@SpaceAtomz]

@@vinceoleyar9411 Oh shut uppppppppp lmao

[@mikegreenawalt4726]

@@vinceoleyar9411 I had a 243 mith 55grain sierra bobtail hollow points it was 200 feet slower than 220 swift

[@arkmodeusoutdoors7911]

Same, that was a much larger wound cavity on the first 22 mag shot.

[@stevencarnes7790]

For 22 mag the best preforming round I’ve used on game is the Federal 30gr TNT hollow point. The Speer Gold Dot 40gr hollow point also does well in my rifle even though it’s made for short barrel pistols.

[@chrishenicke2052]

Good video! I’ll take the 22 mag.

[@MrZee1967]

Just picked up the Savage 17HMR..great review!

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍Thanks Buffalo. When my chickens aren't laying very well or there're giving me trouble I always go eat a chicken leg in front of them and that always seems to straighten them out.

[@jimwyatt7670]

Thats true .....Liberal Fact check said it was

[@thewatchhawk]

I'm surprised the .22 max didn't expand. I use them on squirrels, and the bullet expands really well. I used to shoot 1gal RTV antifreeze jugs filled with water. The mag would punch a hold in the front and expand in a way that made it look like box cutter sliced the back open. I had a playwood board behind the jugs and it was peppered with fragments.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

The Stingers were a real shocker. That test totally wipes out my 49 years of experience with Stingers. Stingers in a 4" auto pistol outperform .22LR HP from a rifle. From a pistol it'll stop or shred gophers, crows, rats, prairie dogs and 8 pound jackrabbits. I strongly suspect a problem with that "ballistic gel". I don't think CCI forgot how to make Stingers all of a sudden. Stingers are also very accurate...AND...Stingers are FAR more reliable if you have a .22 auto that's finicky about ammo.

[@jamessotherden5909]

nice comparison on the .22 Mag and the .17 mag. You and the Gun Dungeon are doing great work with ballistic gel.

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Thanks. I really like TGD. He does a great job. Thanks for throwing him some recognition!

[@AntonyLD]

Very interesting video. I just watched the same ammo tested on a different channel using plastic water filled bottles where the 17hmr stopped and exploded in the 1st while the 22wmr stopped in no.4 with the front hollow point part completely gone, destroyed. So full expansion.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

50 yards might be a better chance for expansion. But that wound channel is what drove me to the 22 WMR. Even without expansion, it made a reasonably ugly hole.

[@adamarens3520]

Hornady needs to redesign that .22mag bullet. Great test, super clear gel block 👍!

[@MrProfchaos71]

Not sure about that... is 22 or 22 magnum really meant to consistently kill and expand at 100 yards ? I can assure you that they do expand at closer range because I’ve shot similar rounds into melons lined up at 20 yards and got nearly double expansion.

[@adamarens3520]

@@MrProfchaos71 than they should put that info on the label. I get that its out of speed by 100 yds to expand but manufacturers have to learn it’s okay to describe expected bullet performance to help the consumer get the right round for their needs.

[@MrProfchaos71]

@@adamarens3520 They probably figure people will use the right gun for the job and keep themselves informed. I’m no ballistic expert but I wasn’t at all surprised by no expansion at 100 yards and in a way they do put that on the box .....because they typically have the velocity at 50 and 100 yards on the box.

[@MrProfchaos71]

@@adamarens3520 Also remember that this is not calibrated Gel. It’s just used to visualize and it’s not the same stuff that the FBI uses to determine penetration and expansion. Do you really think that any 22 mag round being produced today is going to get 16 inches of penetration on an animal 100 yards away ?

[@adamarens3520]

@@MrProfchaos71 I don’t really figure or assume any of this stuff. I get surprised by new designs all the time. But I’m so glad you know all about .22 mag ballistics and are such an expert to explain it to me. I’m so lucky to be graced by your replies and knowledge sir. See us little folk watch test videos to learn about stuff, which is a waste of time for you obviously since you already know all there is to know 🤷‍♂️. I still want more ballistic information printed, get this, right on the box! And people deserve to know about things more easily. I know it’s tough because you don’t need that. You help teach people about their misthinking and it’s so wonderful. I know it’s hard being surrounded by people who think differently but stick it out, be brave 👍.

[@king0dasouf]

For hunting that 22 is a monster!!!

[@claycox6818]

The temp wound cavity plus the penetration of the 22 was impressive. I would take the 22 any day.

[@Florida239]

Can’t beat a 22 mag in my opinion

[@deborahchesser7375]

@@Florida239 especially when I buy the same ammo for my pistol, it’s definitely a kick ass little round ✌️🇺🇸

[@henriknielsen9674]

For getting meat i would say 22 mag. But for pest, I would go with the 17.

[@akadog6319]

CCI STINGER...

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Aguila Interceptors. CCI Velocitors. Federal Punch. Winchester Silvertip. Winchester Super-X Hypervelocity.

[@johanvanaarde5539]

Hi is jihan from South Africa. You had convinced me to get a 17HMR and a . 22mhr thanks. Keep on shooting straight.

[@casey197930]

The 17 looks better for groundhog sized critters and smaller. I'd rather run the .22mag for fox and coyote sized. Idk why Hornaday can't make a .22 to reliably expand.. Great video ty!

[@mr.zafner8295]

It makes me happy to see you look like you're taking better care of yourself. Thanks for the excellent video as usual

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Thanks for watching!

[@coyote102076]

Nice! I have owned both. Loved both. Loved the 17WSM even more! That thing was B.A.! 😎

[@stevedouglas5443]

The chickens were a nice touch. Reminds me of my childhood. Yes, the 22 mag should have expanded, oh well. Still one of my favorites.

[@alicebutch756]

As far as I can see, thee 22mag penetrated farther and the wound channel was longer and just about as wide.

[@johnpoole8321]

I'm with you. Like that wound channel. I always used the CCI in my 22mag. Bought 1 bx of these 30gr. vmax and never even tried them yet. That's why I tuned in just to see what to expect. Probably won't shoot them until I run out of CCI but still look better than 17

[@nathanlambshead4778]

@@johnpoole8321 I have used 22 WMR for back yard varmints for decades. I find Winchester Super X or CCI Maxi mags, in 40 grain HPs work best on small game. I use it for hard-to-kill snapping turtles, beavers, coyotes, etc. The lighter rounds will do it, but on a beaver or Snapper, penetration is more important.

[@johnpoole8321]

@@nathanlambshead4778 Yes, i'm a CCI guy as well.

[@mrscoob3450]

The 17 hmr has a better wound channel. It dumps its energy in a small animal much faster and would be a more devastating hit.

[@EstorilEm]

The way the .17 dumps it’s energy is insane. I went back and watched my hit on a groundhog from the X-Sight HD vid and the thing literally ballooned to 1.5x size for about two frames before it went back to normal. Would never have known if I didn’t go frame by frame. Nasty little round, especially given it’s accuracy.

[@williamray5467]

Yes that little .177 going at speeds of 2550fps cause massive explosion that one really needs to see to realise, all I use are the ballistic tips on everything including wild hogs. Actually for me it's at that point where I don't care what folks think the better gun or round is because this 17hmr does what I want, take game without tracking. And to those that day it damages too much meat don't shoot em there, this 17hmr is accurate enough to do that just practice holding steady and be comfortable with the gun.

[@EstorilEm]

@@williamray5467 I just came back to this video and saw your response lol… so the other day I got a groundhog with one. I went frame-by-frame on the X-Sight 4K and the frame after impact showed it’s body literally exploding internally, then going back to normal. I didn’t notice it at all till I reviewed the video, but it’s just catastrophic. It literally ballooned. Even with a groundhog I don’t think there was any exit wound. Just immediate dump of energy and “expansion” is more of “explosion” honestly. Not sure which round I used, but nearly all of the 17gr stuff performs identically in my experience.

[@TJ-bk9vf]

I’d be interested to see if the 22 mags would expand better at closer range. My best guess is that maybe since they are moving slower at 100 yards than the .17 that maybe that is why they don’t break up.

[@chunter9262]

I’ve shot 700+ gophers with my 22 mag this summer. Browning 40gr sp CCI 40gr maxi mag and Winchester HV 30gr. The 30 gr chrony at 2308fps. devastating at all ranges.(out to 120)Close up they blow up gophers and toss them a foot sometimes 2.

[@bradboisseau749]

Those v-Max’s don’t expand unless they hit something kind of hard, throw a maxi mag wmr in it and watch the magic happen

[@lukemilnes]

Yes they expand well on cotton tails kind too much if keeping for me very messy

[@VC.GANG_EDITZ]

Your absolutely right about that go-pro camera.

[@robertsmith616]

I noticed the first 5 inches of the 22 mag in the gel was about the size of a silver dollar that would be a big wound

[@roydunn4649]

Cut apart a wound in actual flesh and see what a 20 grain .17 hmr does. In flesh it basically disintegrates and causes 1 wound channel smaller than the .22, bit it causes a larger wound with all the fragments.. Though I would never use my .17 on anything larger than a coyote unless it was in a starvation situation, I am highly confident that my 17 would take down a deer with proper shot placement within 75yds.

[@michaelhartzell9758]

Nice video, you covered all the RDS I would use. Makes you rethink the deadly force of a 22 doesn't it!

[@Dennisthemenace40]

I’ve seen, in other videos, a lack of expansion in the Clear Ballistics gel with loads that expanded in the organic gel the FBI uses. I think the takeaway here is that the 17 HMR is more frangible than the 22 Magnum. Thanks for the video, great info. 👍👍

[@CandidZulu]

All contenders deadly at that distance on fox size critter, but the LR lacks margin of error. You live in a gorgeous place!

[@blindfredy6128]

That was interesting. I think it would be more interesting to see the difference between the .22wm vs the .17wsm.

[@stevekeller8818]

Very interesting i have a 17hmr marlin for coyotes i really like it thanks for bringing us along buffalo.

[@buffalosoutdoors]

My pleasure Steve!

[@tacocin]

Great video! I'd love to see a 20 Grain 17 WSM in that gel block. At the barrel that round travels at 3000 FPS!

[@williamray5467]

Yeah I'd like to see that also.

[@byronbilly1969]

I have them both, always pickup the .22mag over the hmr any day!!

[@elliottdrewry8994]

Great vid! You should see what the 22 mag Hornady 45 grain critical defense rounds do at 100. I would hope they expand more.

[@doyouhavegainsonyourphone4507]

I imagine they would not, velocity typically results in expansion. Those would be moving slower. I don’t think the clear gel is a realistic example of real world performance on an animal though

[@elliottdrewry8994]

@@doyouhavegainsonyourphone4507 the bullet is a totally different design. I shot both into water and the 30 grain had no expansion whereas the 45 grain totally fragmented

[@suzukirider9030]

I use this exact type: .22 WMR Hornady V-MAX - for turkeys. Both I've taken had no noticeable damage at all. On one of them I wasn't even able to find where exactly I hit the bird. So - zero meat wasted due to the ammo used. And I think the V-MAX are not designed for expansion but for speed (it's light for the caliber) and high BC (the ballistic tip and overall shape helps it keep energy downrange better than other bullet types, even those which might be heavier and/or have a bit higher initial energy). Hornady V-MAX are great rounds for pushing the range of a given cartridge to and perhaps past it's limits.

[@mattjaxdad8693]

I'm not an active hunter nowadays, but it seems to me that the multiple pieces of fragmentation while beneficial leave you with a chance of missing some when cleaning the animal. Albeit tiny pieces but they're enough to chip or break a tooth or have lead in your system. I'd rather have a round that expanded than fragmented when hunting.

[@boutthere3374]

Valid point for sure but I find the 17hmr is so accurate that head shots are easy peasy.

[@oncall21]

Thanks for going to the effort of making this video. You will probably find that the 22LR and 22WMR will expand once they hit rib or bone on a fox. I have found however using the same ammo as you have what you have shown in your test with the 17HMR. That is when used on foxes they are like delivering a grenade that explodes inside a fox on chest shots. I’ve had a few wizz right through in 22WMR. Thanks for sharing!

[@0214Bub]

I'm really surprised the 22 wmr is not expanding

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Me too. And as a .22 Magnum fan I'm a little disappointed to be honest. Thanks for watching

[@Matersoup]

@@buffalosoutdoors I bet the 22 WMR explodes at 50 yards.

[@hiccup4668]

The V-Max'es are not made to expand, they fly apart! They are made for very small critters!

[@jumpkickman1993]

@@hiccup4668 that's good to know

[@gw5436]

Greetings from Australia We use the 22WMR 30gn Vmax for foxes and feral dogs, please don't use a gel test as a real life experience, when use on these animals and there is varying medium in hair, skin, bone and different muscles in real animals, they expand pretty violently and usually don't exit. I don't understand the gel tests as real world example of performance, merely a comparison for a use that unfortunately isn't related to living creatures. In comparison, the 17gn Vmax in the HMR for us, is very disappointing and doesn't penetrate enough to stop these animals either running off or needing a follow up shot. So we use it only for pest birds.

[@agreyf]

The wound channel of the 22 mag was by far the best

[@walttrotter535]

I really learned a lot from this. I have a .22 rifle and its very accurate. Good shooting !

[@johnplaid648]

Thanks for the video. It's nice when a person does a thorough systematic comparison of a given set of cartridges.

[@williamray5467]

Agree, great video.

[@royceabbottsexcavation3709]

You’re gonna love that mat. I nap on mine from time to time.

[@buffalosoutdoors]

LOL! It don't take much for me to fall asleep these days! I might accidently film a nap! Thanks!

[@royceabbottsexcavation3709]

@@buffalosoutdoors I’m serious I have mine in my work truck.😂😂😂

[@georgiobenelli4854]

I also on mine, take it under the azalea bushes, to hide from wifey-poo

[@jmartin3955]

I am very impressed with the 22mag. Killing machine.

[@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG]

You had a BIG ol’ shout out on Taofledermaus’s new video! The Kentucky windage is literal, but only when you are testing .22 sized ammo! 😅

[@BigDave423AAAO]

They're the ones who brought me here. And yes, I subscribed. 😁👍

[@AngryGRMN56]

@@BigDave423AAAO me too!

[@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG]

You won't regret it gents, I can assure you if that!

[@SmittySmith13]

Recently purchased a Henry lever in 17HMR. I am shooting this Hornady round and I love this gun with this round.

[@Hamish_Whitehaven]

use the 20grain without tip is way better

[@jamesritch5245]

What do you mean the 22 magnum didn't give any expansion look at the first 10 in?

[@teddibiase5332]

The .22 bullet never expanded. The channel is from the bullet tumbling. That's why the bullet is still completely intact in the back of the gel

[@jamesritch5245]

@@teddibiase5332 I agree with you million dollar man lol what I meant to say is that it still had a decent size channel. I've never seen any 22s really expand so to speak

[@jeff0nyschuk670]

I have a CZ512 in 22mag. It does very well at 100 yards 1" group.😮

[@RayRay-zc2ed]

Thank you for an awesome video. This gives me good information for hunting. I use all three calibers on squirrels and rabbits, depending on the environment and circumstances, noise, wind and distance. I favor 17hmr but sometimes it calls for one of the other. No one else has done gel at that distance, I don’t understand why. Thanks again I appreciate the information.

[@scottstewart5784]

Try to find the range the 22 WMR and 22 lr START to expand. Start at 50 yards, adding ten yards till they stop expanding (assuming they expand at 50!!!!!). Great work - loved the bonus 22 lr. Inquiring hunters want to know.

[@FindersKeepers88]

Pretty good, was surprised to see the 22 mag fail the expansion test. Maybe a closer range comparison would be different but you should still be able to get better results than this out of the 22mag at the 100 yd range. On the other hand, the 17 HMR did what was expected. Thx for the vid testing.

[@terrycannon570]

Great test. I have 2 rifles that shoot the 22wmr and I have never shot them into gel blocks but have shot them into 3/4" plywood and also into steel 55 gallon barrel and they do expand when hitting something solid. The bullet will enter its normal size and exit about 5/8" diameter on both the plywood and the barrel. Just a fyi. Thanks for the video.

[@austindenotter19]

Agreed

[@lukewarmwater6412]

the 17 is made for varmints. like ground squirrels and such. the .22 mag was made to reach out a little further than a .22 long rifle. I would say that this shows that they all work as designed.

[@rockynate]

Your test reflects my real life experience as well. The 22 pokes a hole in a prairie rat and it runs down its hole to die underground. The 17 kills on impact and the carcass stays above ground for the carrion eaters.

[@TheOldFatDadGoober]

Good shooting out there! My experience with the 22 Mag mirrors yours. No expansion at 100 yard. You're making me want a 17 HMR...my wife is gonna kill me! 😂

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Man I think I am going to get me one of my own as well. I've got a review of that .17 rifle coming up soon. I know what you mean about the wife! LOL Mine looks at me with murder in her eyes sometimes! LOL

[@bobcatforever3485]

TOFD G. You do need a .17 HMR. And I need a .22 Mag. If need, I'll stand with you while you ask your wife.

[@Gunsandfun1961]

Buffalo's videos can sometimes strain a marriage. .. 😂

[@nickseamus7340]

@@buffalosoutdoors mine looks at me the same way every time I buy more silver...

[@rob6850]

Problem is you definitely want a bolt action .17 HMR, but that Savage A17 looks like a lot of fun too!

[@baddriver3580]

Back in my better days, I shot an 8 point White tailed buck at 92 steps with Winchester Supreme .22 Magnum and the buck “reared up” , and fell backwards dead! Got the head mounted and he weighed 162 pounds. I love my old Marlin model 25 MM 👍👍

[@paulstan9828]

Really surprised at the hmr. Actually didn’t know what to expect. But I think that’s what it is meant to do dump it’s energy quick. Nice test.

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Yes. That's what a V-MAX bullet is designed to do. It failed to do it's job with the .22 Mag.

[@christoon7848]

@@buffalosoutdoors try the CCI Maxi-Mags for the 22 mag

[@akaSprayberry]

Would have liked to see how the 22lr CCI Velocitor would have done.

[@nathanielgray4235]

I wanna see a 17 wsm in the gel testing

[@gregsullivan8956]

I also would enjoy a review of that round

[@GavinPerkins-cq1mi]

Yes maybe 22 mag will have more penetration but you also have hollow point rounds for 17 hmr. And also 17hmr will out preform the 22 mag at range. 17hmr performs better in the wind than 22 mag and 17 hmr also will transfer energy better than just punching a hole throw something

[@Kaufeetimevideo]

Tell the rooster you will make Chicken Noodle soup and he would be guest of honor!

[@BillB23]

I would suggest coq au vin. Great recipe for tough chicken meat. Or Brunswick stew: one chicken, one squirrel, and one rabbit with the vegies of your choice, cooked low and slow. (That's what the old black man in rural Georgia told me, and I have no reason to doubt him. Man, could his wife cook!)

[@buffalosoutdoors]

I had a talk with him after the video! I told him about how much I love chicken and dumplings. He mumbled something about his union steward as he walked away....

[@BillB23]

@@buffalosoutdoors Well struck, Buff!

[@terrycannon570]

@@buffalosoutdoors thats funny

[@jcarry5214]

My friend had a monster of a rooster. He attacked her one too many times. She shot him in the chest with a 22. He came back to life. She gave him a week. He attacked her again. She upgraded to buckshot.

[@AbetterDemocracy1776]

Thanks for the info pretty cool I actually use .17 for planking now so so so fast great with wind tight groups

[@calvingoss7512]

The tumbling of the 22wm kinda made up for the lack of expansion. Thank you for the info

[@RayRay-zc2ed]

How about CCI 22 quiets segmented hollow points, they are 710 FPS, into gelatin at 30 to 50 yards?

[@davidgiffordsr.930]

Thank you. I too was surprised only the 17 HMR expanded at 100 yards. If you get a chance would appreciate those tests at 50 yards which is likely the max I'd be using them at here in PA. Really appreciate your tests, Sir.

[@robertvanderhoof6082]

Never underestimate the 22 Magnum in the right hands you can take down blackbear with that thing

[@jocap7993]

I had an Uncle who (when he was young) took bear in Island Park, Idaho with a 22 Long rifle. He did it by a shot to the eye.

[@nayrapepenova9325]

Shot placement is extremely key there haha. I wouldn't count on it to save your life though.

[@gohanlee3282]

The stingers are a good round and will expand but not at 100yards.. the loose to much velocity.. I’m a huge fan of the .17hmr!!! Great video !! Thanks for posting!!

[@epps1217]

I wonder if the 22 mag would expand if you pulled the red tip out.

[@inferninx]

probably not at 100 yards. Smaller rimfire bullets tend to lose a lot of energy downrange since they typically shed velocity pretty quickly, even when fired from a full rifle length barrel. Now if the target was closer i think you'd have better performance, but at 100 yards i'd be surprised to see a rimfire bullet expand unless it was entirely softer lead.

[@shifty7606]

I wonder if the wound cavity in gel is the same with a 22 WMR solid. It should be if the hollowpoints stay intact. Not that it matters since the price is about the same. Hollow points makes water filled beercans explode in a way solids does not though.

[@rocknraptor3195]

The .17 is impressive, planning on getting one very soon! I had better luck with hollow points 22mwr (cci) than any red tip, the V-max or whatever else, not impressed with them. Good video & nice bonus with the stingers.👍

[@gizmocarr3093]

I believe that the bullet construction is the major cause of poor expansion. The older production Federal and Winchester 22 magnum bullets use a large open tip copper jacked hollow point bullet. The newer bullets polymer tips just don’t perform the same as the old ones do. With the ammo shortage problem it makes testing other bullet types near impossible. CCI makes a 22lr segmented 32 grain load and a 40gr Velocitor load that might be interesting tests; if you ever come across any. One thing your testing does show is the size of the disruption the path of the bullets make. These types of videos are interesting and save on ammo costs; they are a great source of good information too.

[@ckim6400]

Two rifles with two different purposes. .17 HMR when you want to blow up vermin and not for food. .22 Mag. for hunting food and needing a little more penetration than .22 L.R.

[@rafaelbinotto]

Great explanation my friend possible the best I've ever had! Thanks you very much!

[@SR-wz2iv]

Headshots when it's for food 👍

[@ckim6400]

@@SR-wz2iv Yes sir! It is very accurate too!

[@ajaxmaintenance5104]

A very little bit more penetration than the.22 LR. For my money the Stinger is the more effective round coming in at 1/2 the price of the other 2.

[@alvarezvictor2871]

Muy buena explicación, excelente video, felicitaciones, me quedo con el 22 Magnum

[@richardmarshall159]

A thoughtful ,intelligent ,enjoyable presentation. Thanks 👍

[@buffalosoutdoors]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@hillbillyhansforlife2763]

Wonder at what distance, the wmr will expand?

[@bestestusername]

For me the mag wound channel does it for what I need, cci maxi mag 40gr expands fine