Vagus Nerve Stimulation - Do VNS Devices Work? - Dr Gill

[@johnme16]

I have a VNS implanted onto my heart, it ended my seizures and changed my life forever. After over 10 years of seizures, i put in a VNS at the age of 18 and and can now finally drive- something that I never thought I would be able to do.

[@DrJamesGill]

That’s such a positive outcome! I know a lot of medicine is “take a tablet and hope”, so I REALLY find it great when someone creates a physical device which helps people, is somehow seems more… “real”

[@MysticalMoments]

Could vagal nerve stimulation help with a compromised vagal nerve due to cervical stenosis / degenerative disc disease?

[@deanneely3443]

I'm waiting to have one put in, for this reason. I've had no luck with medications. I'll admit I'm afraid of the thing but I'm so sick of the seizures. Reading this comment made me so happy.

[@johnme16]

@@deanneely3443 you got this, procedure barely lasted any time and wasn’t painful at all and that was in 2016, since then the tech has only gotten better

[@n.n9035]

Does it work with non epileptic seizures aswell.i have both types..

[@johannaharrison4305]

The Nurosym is actually simply a locked setting TENS machine with an ear clip electrode. This particular product is priced excessively for what it is. It is identical to a licensed physiotherapy TENS machine with adjustable settings. The settings that are noted in the papers are frequency 20HZ; pulse width 200 micro-s. Its predecessor the Parasym was literally just an adjustable TENS machine.

[@DrJamesGill]

Interesting!

[@susangratwick5327]

@@johannaharrison4305 What is the original machine supposed to do? 6 months of use and am at point Zero and out of pocket. A big con? A big con.

[@SeigneurFreeStyle]

Hi, my physio lent me a TENS machine as an alternative to buying a Neurosym, but I’m unsure about some things. The shortest pulse width available is 1.0 ms, rather than the recommended 0.2 ms-does that matter? Also, there are several modes: direct, alternating, pulse, as well as bipolar and unipolar. Does that matter too?

[@michaelnurse9089]

This. The good doctor conveniently fails to mention this.

[@alandry6872]

I'd really like to find out more regarding a cheaper alternative. £600 seems disproportionately pricey, especially when one can't know if it's going to be effective. Very interesting stuff though. Thanks

[@jamesmanning32]

Dr. Gill, thank you so much for the very detailed explanations of both vagus nerve stimulation in general and your specific experience. At about 11:59 you seem to say "now there's two easy options you can do at home box breathing or there is also the utilization of a physiological sigh - they're both relatively similar and I'll put simple links in the description where you can find ways to access those techniques" I see the links to the papers about the vagal nerve stimulation, but I don't seem to be able to find the links to box breathing, physiological sigh, or Valsalva maneuver. There are certainly lots of google results, but since the links not being present seemed like it was probably more an accidental oversight, I thought it might be worth asking.

[@DrJamesGill]

That’s for that. I’ll get those on. In direct reply though, most of the articles on how to Box breath etc are very good I direct patients to this www.webmd.com/balance/what-is-box-breathing for box breathing Physiological sigh is here honehealth.com/edge/health/physiological-sigh-andrew-huberman/ Here is the paper for the science behind the physiological sigh www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/pdf/S2666-3791(22)00474-8.pdf Valsalva is here my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/23209-valsalva-maneuver

[@susangratwick5327]

@@jamesmanning32 Con

[@Zanyotaku]

I was about to be like “oh gosh, my heart rate doesn’t have much variability!” It hasn’t for years. Then I remembered I have a chronic inflammatory illness and my body is definitely what you’d call physically stressed. That’ll do it. Maybe I should try vagal stimulation for my fatigue, chronic as it is. I’m curious now. I never considered it for stress or anxiety before, but I knew about the SVT benefit from nursing school. I use a TENS unit for pain sometimes, especially if I wind up chasing pain and need more help coping, or I can’t take medication for some reason. so electric stimulus for symptom relief isn’t the weirdest idea in some ways. Interesting video! And thanks for sharing your filtering out of the articles while picking them lol. Always a good reminder to check source bias when learning.

[@maial7667]

I am glad I found this channel

[@49ers_red_and_gold2]

Hello, my favorite UK doctor ❤️‍🔥

[@DrJamesGill]

Morning!

[@MrZomg17]

Oh no!! Dr Gill is MY favorite Doctor!

[@richiet7933]

Thanks Dr. Gill. I am currently experiencing a phase of anxiety as I come out of a period of SAD. This normally lasts 1-3 weeks before I return to a state of good mental health until November/December time normally. I am not on medication for such a relatively short period each year. I'm not a medic, but I'm assuming this anxiety is triggered by fluctuating levels of serotonin in the synapses as production starts to increase again following SAD? It's very similar (though nothing like as severe and frightening) as to when I tried SSRI medication a few years ago - for which the cure was worse than the illness in my case! I'm very grateful for this insight and will practice some of the techniques in an attempt to control the symptoms of anxiety until it passes. I think blowing through an empty syringe (or biro in my case) is the most pragmatic and easy to achieve. Thanks again for what you do.

[@susangratwick5327]

Thank you! I was suspicious at first because of the adverts! Since last September have been suffering from post viral fatigue. Sleeping or lying down in the day time, brain fog and just managing a walk outside once every 10 or 11 days. ... 8 months now. Started Nurosym maybe 10 days ago. I have hope. Still weak and aching but managing a short walk maybe every 5 or 6 days. I had much doubt before buying then tossed a coin 3 times to decide!! I think that I do feel different. It actually sorted certain bowel issues to do with IBS. That was a surprise! So on we go! I was having doubts recently so this talk has given me a bit more confidence and hope so thank you!

[@crazydrummerofdoom]

Look up pain free you long covid success stories on KZbin, it will give you much more hope trust me, i to had "long covid " not anymore. 😊

[@lubietruskawki1668]

How VNS device has worked for you?

[@susangratwick5327]

@@lubietruskawki1668 Well I'm not sure. I still have post viral fatigue, but just reading the above which I wrote some months ago I think/hope there is change. If I really monitor my actions having several hours complete rest after each activiity then I can just about keep going. Last week I had 2 days no dog walk, then on Monday did a longish walk to buy meat for the dog then with guilt gave the terrier a whole hour of walk (he loves to run), well after that I was 5 days settee bound and exhausted. I tried stopping the Neurosym but come back to it. Tried going for 30' insstead of 60', but back to square one again. The key I guess is to be disciplined and strongly monitor myself, taking systematically those rests in between activities, even washing up. It's a year now and neurosym is the only help I have. Online for advice the main rule is activity then rest. Discipline. Hmm! Is that any help? I hope so but feel it leaves you with more questions. If you are ill, Good Luck!

[@susangratwick5327]

@@lubietruskawki1668 Actually I just read my first entry here. Interesting! So yes, my brain fog has not quite but nearly disappeared. I do 1 easy crossword a day and 1 Sudoku puzzle as brain excercise. Yes, the fog has cleared a lot and if I manage myself properly can go out say every other day. I don't have that feeling of being totally at sea. It is better. Much better than it was.

[@susangratwick5327]

@@lubietruskawki1668 I just wrote 2 long answers but they've disappeared!

[@MrZomg17]

@Dr James Gill i will heed your warnings! Thank You for this Knowledge.

[@deweyhall712]

The doctor we wish that we could have...❤❤❤😊😊😊

[@collinwilk]

Fantastic video. Thank you for being so thoughtful about word choice and acknowledging variables and ambiguities in evidence.

[@chuciepink]

Thank you for the video! Do you have any product recommendations for those of us in the US who aren't able to order Neurosym? Thank you!

[@blazingstar97]

Huh, interesting! My mom bought me one of those a few years ago. I tried it once and it seemed to have an effect, but since the advice to use it had come from a naturopath who had also peddled some serious quackery, I attributed it to placebo and shoved it in the back of my closet. Interesting to see there's actual science backing it up- I guess even a stopped naturopathic clock is right twice a day! Might dig it out of the bowels of my closet and give it another go :)

[@DrJamesGill]

You are completely correct “even the stopped clock is right twice a day!” 😂 I think a high degree of skepticism is ALWAYS warranted when money is changing hands

[@michellea9857]

Did you give it another go?

[@multiversomental6893]

Excellent video!! I have Long Covid fatigue and was about to buy one called Amofit S because I can’t afford Nurosym. Could you make a part two on that one too?

[@starfishgurl1984]

I have to admit when I first saw the video was posted I imagined that the vns was a device for people with back pain and had no idea you’d be talking about anxiety and long Covid and seizures and such but as someone with anxiety (and ptsd induced anxiety) I found this very interesting and informative!

[@anardine6176]

Thank you again for the information. Interesting topic. On a side note, I have been getting into cold water 7-12 °C, for about 10 min in the mornings for a while now and I can tell you the positive effects I get from it are quite real. You can just feel it, it temporarily improves my focus and general well-being. I am a bit of a water adorer anyway since my childhood, maybe that has some psychological implications. As I get older I realize it is the obvious and small things that matter, like walking a lot, eating healthy and music.

[@Isaac5123]

May I give you some advice. Just get into cold water for 3 minutes at a time. This shocks the system better and can be done more often every other day for maximum benefit.

[@Chris-sie]

Hello there and thank you so much for this interesting video. Are there any alternatives to the neurosis Device (it is rather expensive) that you would recommend? Thank you for answering 😊

[@mukeshbasnet657]

Thank you doctor for the information. What are your thoughts on using this VNS device for ulcerative colitis?

[@lisat9802]

Hello Dr Gill. I am in the USA and very much want to get this VNS you show in the video, but they dont ship to the USA and ideas on how I can pull it off ? I am tormented by migraines. I am not a Dr but would love to evaluate this device for my migraines.

[@susangratwick5327]

@@lisat9802 Interesting to find out why they don't ship it to the USA. In all their blurb they say how much it is used there in clinics etc. I think , after buying one and using it for 6 months, that it is a giant Con.

[@samuelpearson-ts6yc]

I’m stumbling across your video after stumbling across the nurosym. I’m 8min in and everything you’re saying completely relates to my situation! I have AF episodes and always have SVT before the episode, if I control the SVT then I don’t get the AF. To control the SVT I kneel down and do some deep breathing. The result is as you are explaining, building pressure in my chest which seems to stop it. I just never understood why. I was seeing a cardiologist at the NHS for a few years and not once did he ever mention vagal nerve stimulation. I had no idea the vagal nerve was such an integral part of the heart. I had to work out that what I was experiencing was SVT by myself. Thank you for the knowledge. I just can’t believe in 10 years of having this issue this is the first I’m hearing a doctor tell me SVT and vagus nerve are related. Now I’m looking into this device which has so many clinical trials and one for AF. Just saw the price and I was like 😢 I’m hoping this might be a none invasive way of helping reduce the chances of SVT and further prevent AF episodes.

[@robinmoore3649]

I saw an advert for a device that looked similar to these, that didn't have any claims of how they worked. Coming from psychology, I thought the device vibrated on your chest, thus giving the person a physical sensation. Much like some self tapping techniques, I assumed they were aiming for a mindfulness approach by keeping their mind focused on their body, rather than unhelpful thoughts that are the source of anxiety.

[@DrJamesGill]

I’m not aware of a device like that. But I can see your logic But the ones discussed here are electrical stimulation

[@benstone1824]

Great info. Have you looked into those lights that help with vitamin D and seasonal depression?

[@fluebbe]

Hey Dr. Gill, is there already a video of yours about the general anatomical terms of location? Would be very interesting to properly get to know the meanings of distal, proximal, medial and so on. Might be too basic, but you probably know that not all your viewers are medical professionals ;) Thanks for all your cool videos

[@DrJamesGill]

There isn’t, but might be a good idea for a series of shorts?

[@Chris-g9i]

I‘ve suffered with Post Covid syndrome for 2 years. Finally got diagnosed with Pots. The prognosis (50% not cured after 5 years) is so bad that I started researching high bridges. Will give this a try. It’s ridiculously expensive but after losing my job and all that made life worth living, I am desperate enough to try it.

[@Raphael_Hofmann]

Did you try it already?

[@jackwilson4916]

Did you try it? How was your experience with it?

[@Raphael_Hofmann]

@@jackwilson4916 I tried it. I am sure it can work. But the difference was not great enough for me to keep the device.

[@paradisekohchangstyle2150]

@@jackwilson4916 I can only assume that after trying it, he found that bridge...

[@msaditu]

Excellent video! I find your long-form videos very informative, I always learn something. I appreciate your balanced presentation and your endevor to avoid and disclose bias, unlike some other medical influencers out there who are all too happy to recommend all sort of quackery that people will trust in their desperation.

[@DrJamesGill]

I really HATE quackery. Also dogma. If I’m wrong, I want people to work with me to understand. I’ve found it very interesting when people do say “you are wrong” and when we work it through find it’s not the case. I hurriedly highlight I get it wrong all the while, this was an example of it, and what to do better

[@kaischned]

When will this be available in the United States?

[@karmenashikian2479]

Is this safe to use long term? And what frequencies are used is that safe for the brain?

[@abbiedoc97]

Not sure if this is something you would cover, but could you possibly talk about the benefits of having mushrooms (cordecyps, lions mane etc) in your diet for cognitive function? Been reading lots of research and studies on this and the possible benefits for children and adults with autism! Would love to hear your thoughts :)

[@JosephCymrank]

What is the difference between a £45 tens device for vegus nerve stimulation and a £600 neuro sym device.?

[@HuskyDakotaFans]

£555

[@jenswearingen7779]

I didn’t know there was an external device 🤔 I have one implanted for my seizures

[@n.n9035]

Will it give same results...

[@susangratwick5327]

What I don't understand is that we are informed that Neurosyms are used in American hospitals yet are not sold in America. They are sold with very good sales pitches in the UK yet no doctor I have seen during my last year of Post Viral Fatigue has knowledge of them! 😮 Food for thought or what? 😮 Also I have been ill for a year and have been using a Neurosym for 6 months of that time. Result. I could gp out for walks earlier on. Now I am housebound. So really I do have to draw a big Zero on this apparatus. Publicity and backup very well done but I really do think it is a big con. 😮

[@edoardomottini156]

Hi Doctor, do you think it could word for IBS?

[@timmysamecphd]

Hi Dr. Gill! I also do the double wrist Garmin/Whoop duo. I noticed in the main video you have the Whoop sensor on the underside of your wrist as opposed to the top in the Neurosym video insert. Do you notice differences in data acquisition or reliability depending on the location you have the Whoop sensor?

[@TenkoBerry]

This was Quite Good Information, Keep it Up 👌

[@DrJamesGill]

👍

[@sonatafrittata]

Great video, but I'm sceptical to trust if you're offering a refereal to the product you are reviewing, even though you are trying to mitigate that very dutifully. Your anecdotal test is also not very meaningful without a control condition: Would you have had the same effect by just sitting there (which certainly would have also had an effect on your HRV)?

[@Wojt89]

Dr. Gill, Thank you for the comprehensive content about the VNS; it was really helpful. I contacted the Parasym support team as I am wondering whether having a piercing in the tragus could affect the Nurosym device's efficiency or be somehow harmful since it gives the electric signal and the jewelry is made from surgical steel. However, I didn't receive any replay. What's your opinion?

[@DrJamesGill]

As a personal opinion, thinking about conduction, I wonder if there is a risk of the jewellery getting hot, and also the current not behaving as expected, so the intended outcome not occurring Thus I’d remove the jewellery if trying. But this is my personal hypothesis,

[@fruitblossomblue1133]

Obviously remove the jewellery during the VNS treatment. Obviously!

[@Scampo4591]

Very interesting and informative, I am waiting delivery of a Nurosym device to try and help with post ischaemic stroke left arm spasticity. However, I also hope it will help reduce anxiety and improve sleep, a similar device is being used in a UK trial for post stroke patients but to get in the trial there needs to be wrist movement that I lack, so I am doing my own trial! Enjoyed this unbiased and informative presentation. Thanks

[@derekterrell3465]

Have you gotten it and tried it? I was going to try it for same reason,stroke that affected left side left arm and leg

[@Scampo4591]

@@derekterrell3465 hi, I did respond but it seems to have been deleted for some reason?

[@marzipom5630]

​@@Scampo4591most of my comments here have been deleted too. This channel is really dodgy.

[@marzipom5630]

​@@Scampo4591my comments have been deleted too. It's a bit weird.

[@DrJamesGill]

there is something odd going on and not from me, @Marzipom has made some comments that come up in the alerts, but then I can't respond to them, as they don't seem to be here. Even some of the comments I've made have vanished

[@CoreenKendrick]

Hi I like your explanations about the Vagus Nervous System Dysfunction. I have not experienced Covid or Long Covid but I do have a damaged Vagus Nerve going on 28 years now. I was in a very abusive relationship including alcohol and drug abuse to the maximum. I was 34 years old and after 6 months after that horrible fiasco I started getting very ill. It felt like a flu and continued to cause undue stress to my poor body now at 61 years old. I have Gastritis and major illness problems because of this issue and it's the root cause. I live in Canada so does the offer apply to us? I have been online watching reviews on other devices as they are expensive but I want to know that it is very effective!! Thank you!!

[@Speedsta79]

Does it work with metals in the head as tooth implant, brace or nails in the cheekbone?

[@JosephCymrank]

What's the difference?? Neuro sym £600 - tens machine with clip £45????

[@ReAlNeRd1]

Any alternatives to Neurosym? It isn’t available for purchase in America 😔

[@jimbarley7665]

You work with/for Nurosym. Is this not a bit biased?

[@DrJamesGill]

Very good point. They reached out to me to ask would I like to look at the product from a long Covid perspective Which I accepted on the condition that I) I would approach the device from the point of view it DOESNT work, and ii) that I would not accept and reject any research papers which they provided or were involved in They accepted that, and subsequently offered the referral code. They then requested to share the video on their site - which I don’t think anyone would object to, as it is another potential avenue to bring in viewers Whenever someone asks can they use my videos I ALWAYS say yes. I’d like to think that I’d covered this reasonably in the video as well, but certainly happy to discuss it further bias is a MAJOR ISSUE with these sorts of things, and I’d hope that I’ve been as transparent as possible One view that I had was, I know I’m really harsh on bias. At a conference currently and there are some very questionable products. So if I DIDNT do the work, someone more open to “selling a product” may have done the video instead Does that seem a reasonable position?

[@jimbarley7665]

@@DrJamesGill Absolute respect for replying in depth. One has to be slightly dubious in this world unfortunately, but completely understand your position and seems fair to me. Having used the device, my IBS pain has decreased by at least 60%, so I’m well on board. Is there a difference between left ear or right ear usage? Seen something online regarding heart affected on the right side.

[@alanoregan8019]

@dr James, do you know of any treatments for long term loss of taste in long Covid?

[@susangratwick5327]

@@alanoregan8019 8 months and no helpful reply. Hmm!

[@cajewa-ek4uw]

May I know the name of the device you have so I can get one, please? Thank you.

[@DrJamesGill]

Nurosym - there is 5% discount with this link nurosym.com/discount/DRJAMESG5?redirect=%2Fproducts%2Fnurosym Discount code DRJAMESG5

[@lrg613]

How do we get it in the U.S.??

[@tiredcoffeeguy2887]

Hey, I can't see any follow up in the comments (could have missed) but how would you rate this with regards to Chronic Fatigue (CFS/ME)? If HRV is already considered high, would there be any benefit? Thanks Doc, always insightful vids!

[@DrJamesGill]

I’ve not really looked at this from a CFs perspective. But if someone is saying their HRV is high. My first question would be how is it being measured

[@tiredcoffeeguy2887]

​@@DrJamesGill That's a fair point. In this case an Apple watch, so hardly anything accurate. From a CF view though, it would be interesting to see if there is an impact as there is little out there apart from "wait till you're better' (which is quite discouraging). Thanks for the vids though dude, keep em coming :)

[@lynnvanparys9116]

Do you have any thoughts about the Amofit S device?

[@sawyerdave1]

Just don’t leave that stimulator near your Alexa or you’ll wake up with a taser wrapped in swaddling cloth 😂 But seriously , you have sparked my curiosity as I wonder if the valsalva technique as I, and many others use when freediving is part of the reason why it is so calming (obviously you have to enjoy said activity first)..

[@sonatafrittata]

Are you still using the Nurosym regularly? :)

[@ericterrell7486]

God I love this man and his videos. Hes such a great teacher and communicator.

[@brand0n_0204]

Would you consider doing a video on how earphones affect the ear or any part of the head? Because I accidentally fell asleep with my AirPod on and I woke up with my ear and jaw hurting.

[@lsaltd8808]

Thanks for this video. Doesn't HRV go up by resting though. So if you were to sit still or lie down for the same time you used the device, wouldn't hrv also go up? This is what I have personally found

[@DrJamesGill]

It go up when resting, assuming that you weren’t stressed that time. In the video, I’d already been sat down for an hour or so doing bits and bobs in order to try and control for that very variable.

[@DrJamesGill]

This is one of the reasons, my box breathing, can help boost HRV. Because you’re sat down, rested, and crucially, by focusing on your breathing, you’re getting a, degree of vagal nerve stimulation with the challenges of pressure in the chest, but also B, you’re getting a period of rest whereby the focusing on your breathing, means you can’t be stressing about other things at that moment in time

[@lsaltd8808]

Thank you for the response. I'm about to retry my parasym device having given it a but if a go a fee years ago. I'm 11 years post viral fatigue / me/cfs with pots syndrome. Very much like long covid fatigue patients in presentation. It seems like a promising idea. I'll try for longer this time.

[@wolpumba4099]

*Abstract* This video explores vagus nerve stimulation (VNS) and its potential applications for anxiety, stress, and long COVID. Dr. James Gil, the presenter, delves into the science behind VNS, discussing the autonomic nervous system and how VNS can influence its balance. He examines research on VNS for various conditions, including its impact on heart rate variability (HRV), a marker of stress and resilience. Dr. Gil also shares his personal experience using a VNS device and its positive effects on his HRV and stress levels. While acknowledging the limitations of current research on VNS for long COVID, he suggests its potential as a complementary therapy, particularly when combined with HRV monitoring. *Summary* *Addressing Patient Desperation and Health Quackery (**0:52**)* * Patients with long COVID often experience desperation and may turn to unproven treatments or supplements. * Dr. Gil emphasizes the importance of evidence-based medicine and avoiding health quackery. *What is the Vagus Nerve? (**3:30**)* * The vagus nerve is the longest cranial nerve and plays a crucial role in the autonomic nervous system. * It interacts with both the sympathetic ("fight or flight") and parasympathetic ("rest and digest") branches of the autonomic nervous system. * VNS can be used to dampen the "fight or flight" response and promote relaxation. *The Autonomic Nervous System (**4:50**)* * The autonomic nervous system controls involuntary functions, like organ function and automatic bodily processes. * It consists of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, which work in opposition to maintain balance. *How Vagus Nerve Stimulation Works (**5:42**)* * Stimulating the vagus nerve releases acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that calms the sympathetic nervous system. * This can help regulate heart rate and reduce anxiety. *Vagus Nerve Stimulation for Cardiac Arrhythmia (**6:03**)* * VNS can be used to treat dangerous heart rhythms like SVT (supraventricular tachycardia). * Vagal maneuvers, such as blowing against a syringe or applying a cold towel to the face, can stimulate the vagus nerve and interrupt the abnormal heart rhythm. *VNS Techniques for Anxiety and Panic Attacks (**8:56**)* * VNS techniques, like box breathing and the physiological sigh, can help manage anxiety and panic attacks by promoting relaxation. *Long COVID, Fatigue, and Heart Rate Variability (HRV) (**9:46**)* * Long COVID patients often experience fatigue and biological stress, leading to decreased HRV. * VNS may help improve HRV and reduce fatigue in long COVID patients. *Vagal Nerve Stimulation for Long COVID (**11:39**)* * Relaxation techniques, including VNS, are being explored as potential therapies for long COVID. * HRV can be used as a marker to assess the effectiveness of VNS in improving stress levels and resilience. *Nurosym Device (**13:01**)* * The video discusses the neurosym device, a non-invasive VNS device that stimulates the vagus nerve through the ear. * Dr. Gil reviews research on non-invasive VNS and its potential benefits for stress, fatigue, and anxiety. *Independent Research on VNS (**14:49**)* * Dr. Gil emphasizes the importance of unbiased research and reviews studies not funded by VNS device manufacturers. * He highlights studies showing the positive effects of VNS on HRV, sympathetic nerve activity, and fatigue. *Personal Testing of the Nurosym Device (**18:49**)* * Dr. Gil shares his personal experience using the neurosym device and its positive impact on his HRV and stress levels. * He demonstrates the use of the device and its effects on his HRV using a Garmin watch and Whoop band. *Conclusion and Personal Take on VNS Devices (**26:37**)* * Dr. Gil concludes that VNS shows promise as a complementary therapy for anxiety, stress, and potentially long COVID. * He recommends starting with home-based VNS techniques like box breathing and monitoring HRV to assess effectiveness. * While acknowledging the need for further research, he shares his positive personal experience with the neurosym device. i used gemini 1.5 pro to summarize the transcript Token count 9,326 / 1,048,576

[@Yahweh_Editingclub]

KZbin recommended me your video and I am so thankful, really great stuff Man. btw I was wondering do you need an editor for editing your videos.

[@mikewalsh511]

How does this differ from tACs?

[@DrJamesGill]

VND is established medical techniques - eg the use in cardiac issues using breathing approaches I don’t know enough to speak on tACS, but I think it has less of an evidence base. There is a Nature paper in 2021 highlighting the point the mechanism underlying it isn’t understood www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-83449-w

[@mikewalsh511]

@@DrJamesGill VNS looks to be very similar if not the same. I've been doing tACs for years for the same kind of anxiety relief and relaxation. The electrodes are ear clips but it's a pair of them, one for each ear lobe. I'm curious where the other electrode is for your VNS device? With just one electrode it would not be possible to send electrical signals. Either the unit you hold is an electrode itself or the ear piece has two separated electrodes. I'm curious what waveforms and frequencies the VNS device uses. My tACs unit is 2Hz to 111Hz in a bi-phasic dual polarity waveform.

[@rachelxsutton]

​@@mikewalsh511tACS devices are the GOAT

[@colingoogle]

I am an ischaemic stroke survivor. I have very little use of my left arm and hand and suffer with finger spacicity. I do many exercises to encourage neuro stimulation and plasticity. Could VNS help ??

[@DrJamesGill]

I don’t know the answer, but I *suspect* not

[@laurelinium]

Do you think helps with appetite suppression like the VBLOC surgery does?

[@tylert2514]

Excellent presentation

[@sebastianjespersen1]

You actually don’t have to get a device that expensive. There are cheap tVNS devices available online that do the same thing for anywhere between 20-100€. Or maybe you already have a tens device for your back or neck. Then you only need to get an earclip and set the thing to 100Hz and 150 µs

[@DrJamesGill]

The only thing I would advise is than any device you intend to use on your cranial nerves (important things!) is CE marked for your own protection

[@marzipom5630]

You need to check the settings - some can be too strong. A NeuroTrac Multi-TENS is a good one to get - it's lowest setting is 0.5ma (Nurosym is 0.8ma) so it's very gentle.

[@eternalbattle1438]

Would you please provide the links for these cheaper alternatives?

[@MusoStuu]

What a brilliant video❤

[@stuartkelly3106]

I recently bought a VN Neurosymn device. Do you think there is at least a theoretical risk of nerve damage from long/short term use?

[@fruitblossomblue1133]

It's european. If there were any risks of damaging your nerves it wouldn't be released to the public. Don't worry.

[@karmenashikian2479]

I can’t seem to get my HRV up. It’s always in the 10’s

[@thatoneasmrfanlady]

Would this (theoretically) then be beneficial even to someone who denied their high level of stress? Hubby gets worked up, but tamps his feelings down…yet, his heart rate according to his phone is around 92-94bpm. What are your thoughts- theoretically?

[@the_failgamers6892]

Me sitting here with an average hrv of 30 at 22 for the last 2 years

[@DrJamesGill]

Any idea why?

[@the_failgamers6892]

@@DrJamesGill Not particularly, my GP assumes it has to do with me taking on too much stress over the last couple years, but he said well keep watch of it now that I’ve cut back on stressful activities

[@sneakypress]

@@DrJamesGill Doctors , keep learning ?? ( maybe you do , no disrespect ) But the side effects of steroids and other drugs were well known by the 1970s , yet myself and many others were poisoned in the mid 1990s . If they had not have ‘forbidden’ their use for COVID , half the world’s population would be severely debilitated.

[@sneakypress]

⁠@@DrJamesGill On a brighter note , very good video . And is POTS a recognised diagnosis in the UK ? And what do you think about this guys heart rate variability . Is it just at the low end of the range ?

[@sneakypress]

Just out of curiosity , were you put under any anaesthetics ?

[@jorgschiele7314]

Please come over to Germany and be my family doctor ;-)

[@glasss1978]

Very useful, thank you. Is it possible to stimulate the vagus nerve with a TENS machine? Sticking the pad on your neck perhaps? I also wonder if it can help with ADHD?

[@karolinagordon2131]

Oh no please don't. These are very different devices, you could potentially really harm yourself.

[@glasss1978]

@@karolinagordon2131 I bought the Nurosym in the end... better work for that amount of money...

[@markus5345]

Hello Dr. Gill, thanks for the detailed video. What do you think about less expensive alternatives to Neurosym, for example using a TENS device with an ear clip? Also, during a standard ECG, the HRV is not recorded, yes?

[@paradisekohchangstyle2150]

Is this the same as a TENS device?

[@DrJamesGill]

Similar but different is the easier answer- it’s like a Philips and a flat head screw driver. Similar things, but slightly different Tens is looking specifically at pain, VNS is looked at the autonomic nervous system

[@paradisekohchangstyle2150]

@@DrJamesGill Thanks, I'm wondering what might better be a better option for tinnitus, this, or a TENS device? As the parasympathetic breathing exercises bring down blood pressure but do nothing for tinnitus then maybe TENS. Or best of all, a new audio cortex if you can advise where I can get one of those?🫤

[@marzipom5630]

It is the same thing - it's just preprogrammed and looks nicer.

[@johannaharrison4305]

@@DrJamesGill It's not different. The engineering of the physical electronic device is identical to a TENS device. They have simply locked the frequency and pulse width settings. The intensity setting, which is adjustable is an amplitude setting. What makes it different to a TENS machine is that it includes an ear clamp electrode intended for the tragus. These are widely available. As are CE approved TENS devices, which can be set to replicate those exactly at a fraction of the price.

[@christinefarneman4433]

I use my tens device. It has the correct installation for microseconds,, htz and mA. I bought double ear clip on Amazon and use it on my tragus on the ear. Only used it a couple of days yet. Have POTS and chronic pain and maybe ME/CFS.

[@NadrianATRS]

I live in Vegas and I have a lot of nerve 😦

[@jackiemansfield8325]

Hey dummy, it is VAGUS, not Vegas

[@woolfy02]

Has anyone gotten a VNS implant from livanova for TRD? I can't find any reviews of people getting it and it helping.

[@lisawesthead9943]

Wonderful video ❤

[@janitsjar8531]

is this same treatment as Alpha Stim stimulation ???

[@DrJamesGill]

@marzipom5630 the vagus nerve is the 10th cranial nerve

[@DrJamesGill]

For some reason the previous comment was removed. The vagus nerve is the longest cranial nerve going from the medulla extending all the way to the abdomen I’d have reservations about delaying with anything health provider that was getting this confused

[@marzipom5630]

​@@DrJamesGillmy comments are being removed too - it's really weird.

[@marzipom5630]

Alpha Stim told me they worked differently to Nurosym. Alpha Stim didn't help me but Nurosym is having some effect. They both seem to be TENS machines though so I can't work out why one works but not the other.

[@cristalumati]

@@marzipom5630Alpha Stim does not stimulate vagus nerve, the sham devices used in studies for vagus nerve stimulation has the same position as alpha stim for its ear clips, the ear lobe

[@Wandering869]

A stress score of 50?! You need to get some Invigaron

[@Wandering869]

I went and found the Nurosim thing and it's bloody 700€... I guess it's for the rich :/

[@DrJamesGill]

15 February 2024

[@marzipom5630]

Depending where you live you could get VAT relief on it - you need to email them though. There are also discount codes available that you can stack on top of that.

[@llh3018]

Hi Dr, would you recommend the nurosym device for Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, an autonomic nervous system disorder. Thank you

[@DrJamesGill]

I can’t give specific medical advice in this formum. I haven’t seen good evidence that it would be beneficial

[@pb879]

Dr. Gill. I love the info, but others that in catch 21 when it comes to a Benzodiazippine to calm them down for panic and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not a doctor. But I've seen many suffer with these issues. Maybe it is hard to address this from your point of view due to limited restrictions. However, I do feel it is important to not overlook these matters. Thank you for the knowledge Dr. Gill. I just wanted to bring up what I see around me. Heh.

[@DrJamesGill]

I’m sorry I’m not quite sure about three catch 21 you are referring to? To put it another way, benzodiazepines, unless in the acute situation are medications doctors should strive to avoid. The side effects and addictive nature far outweigh the way any effect

[@pb879]

@@DrJamesGill it is a typo. "Catch 22" I just noticed a lot others around me that are stuck. It's either they are suck with the medication, or have withdrawals. Sadly for them they are stuck in this situation.

[@DrJamesGill]

@pb879 ah that’s makes more sense. Yes I fully understand that predicament. The solution unfortunately is not easy, as stopping BZD medications can be hard, even traumatic for some

[@juliaorpheus]

@@pb879 I've been taking this class of drug for 10 years and periodically when times are less stressful I've been able to stop taking them for a little while. Reading your comment I just realized I stopped taking Lorazepam at the same time I began polyvagal exercises two weeks ago. Polyvagal exercises are all over youtube, you can give them a try without buying a device. I just assumed I was so exhausted I didn't need the benzo, but it was very likely the polyvagal exercises reduced my stress and that's why I could sleep without them. Either way, I've never stopped taking Lorazepam cold turkey without a lot of anxiety, but I did two weeks ago. I didn't actually try to quit, but I just didn't need them after doing these exercises and my rem and deep sleep improved 40-60%. This was just my experience, but it's notable I quit them without trying once I started doing exercises to relax my vagus nerve. It can't hurt to try the ear massages, they're a little goofy, but they have done a lot for me already. Good luck!

[@thelearicist]

Get. A. Wiggle. On. Glorious.

[@babydolphin2423]

"Includes PAID promotion."

[@scottsponaas]

He also included a link to the studies that back up the everything he said and it all applies to any VNS not just the one featured in the video.

[@JAFFATYREE--CHANNEL--DELETED]

*SO THEN PEOPLE, WHAT'S YOUR OWN DIAGNOSIS, IS HE A DOCTOR OR A SALESMAN.??.* His advertised device = $599 or a do the very same job TENS Unit = $40..

[@MrZomg17]

"Get Our "Wiggle" On".

[@BandiBlue]

The 5 % off does not work…

[@DrJamesGill]

try this link instead - nurosym.com/discount/DRJAMESG5?redirect=%2Fproducts%2Fnurosym

[@JAFFATYREE--CHANNEL--DELETED]

please note that he conveniently failed to tell everyone that instead of the very expensive device he was promoting, you can buy a TENS Unit for around £30 that will do the very same job, yeh.. money, money, money.!!.. lol.

[@marzipom5630]

He probably got paid to promote it.

[@DrJamesGill]

@marzipom5630 I was very clear in the video that I was given the Nurosym device, and listed the video as sponsored. However that duration has passed. I’d still say the same thing about different devices, check the safety profiles and what they are DESIGNED to do. I’ve sent a patient to the A&E after they used a device which was not designed for vagal nerve stimulation due to adverse effect I’m not saying X is better than Y. I’m saying that I’d prefer to fly in a plane, than a car which someone has been able to make fly 😊 When it comes to health devices - we often repurpose monitoring devices - eg CGM meters for non-diabetics (that is it’s own minefield though) but we tend not to repurpose dedicated INTERVENTIONAL devices - well not without plenty of safety research

[@marzipom5630]

​@@DrJamesGillyou just need to check the settings - some TENS machines are a bit strong but there are some that are the same if not more gentle than the Nurosym. Ear clips are available too.

[@מאירישראל-צ2ב]

Tens devices tend to be stronger and are not meant to stimulate vagus nerve, they're meant to relax muscular issues therefor help in pain management. In contrast vns devices are manufactured for the very specific need to give appropriate vagus nerve stim

[@MauricioOsuna-et8et]

Haha, calling out the "studies" funded by companies that benefit from said studies coming out in their favor 😂

[@DrJamesGill]

When it comes to health care, I always say follow the money. If you don’t like where it leads, that might give you more of an answer than the information they are providing you.

[@DrJamesGill]

Conflict of interest is sometimes a different thing to bias though. I work - in addition to my NHS work - one day in private medicine. I have a conflict in that I would like people to come and see me, so I’m talking a little more broadly about health on the channel. But I don’t feel that biases what I’m saying, as I apply everything I talk about to both my NHS and my private patients 😊

[@MauricioOsuna-et8et]

@@DrJamesGill For what matters, as should be the primary goal of all medicine professionals, is the patient getting well - getting paid should be the result of a job well done.

[@DrJamesGill]

I’m going to disagree, although sound very pedantic in doing so 😊 What matters is the patient getting HELP, which is different to getting better? I think it was Hunter Adams who said the great quote “treat a disease you win you lose. Treat a patient, no matter the outcome you win” Also to put it another way you can’t pay doctors based on results, as patients come to harm. We already see certain groups of clinicians declining to provide certain services, as whilst the patient MAY benefit, there is also risk to the patient. As some doctors OUTCOMES matter, some say “sorry, I won’t take a chance on the treatment [because a negative outcome will affect my numbers] But as ever this things are massively complex, and ultimately people are looking for help

[@martinjensenuk]

Sponsored content. Credibility out of the window. Sadly.

[@DrJamesGill]

I think I’ve tried to be as clear about that risk as possible. Crucially I received no money here, but was allowed to keep the device. So there is a risk of bias from that, but I think to say that impacts on credibility isn’t correct, especially the way I’ve approached the use cases - directly ignoring everything the company sent and finding the research papers myself

[@Joeyyd23]

Yeah you don’t know anything. The good Doctor explained it quite well. Don’t like his actually medical opinions, go somewhere else.

[@falibaba]

We need some placebo measurements. Clip on, device off and paper work.

[@juliaorpheus]

@@DrJamesGill I greatly appreciate your scientific integrity. Thank you!

[@Sycophantichallenger]

Okay... Colour me intrigued... however, a price of over $1000 Canadian dollars for what is effectively a regarchable battery with a timer, voltage regulation and an aligator clip is an ABSOLUTE SCAM. Think about it, a vape battery which has effectively equivalent technology to what is included in this product and those cost around $50.00... There is NO WAY I could ever recommend this product to myself or anybody else at that price point. I suppose they only have to sell a few of them to be profitable... but that price... no way.