Valve Index VR Headset In-Depth Impressions!

[@OutOfNameIdeas2]

damn it! Should I buy *this* or the *999$ pro stand* from apple?!

[@Damstructions-funny]

Ez, stand

[@Mimartomusic]

Stando tsukai

[@MrFelixdodd]

Lol

[@cunty]

to be fair if anyone is complaining about the stand they probably aren't in the market (can't afford) the monitor either

[@xXSinForLifeXx]

The stand VRs a gimmick duh.

[@Sicarius_7]

"On my personal head" is one of the best combinations of words ever spoken by a human being.

[@ot0m0t0]

Well you could own A personal head but not be your own.... like in a closet... would be weird though.

[@ExplodingPiggy]

Head is always personal

[@Kenjuudo]

@@ExplodingPiggy Not if you're giving someone head. Then it's a joint venture.

[@CaffeinatedAsset]

Watching a 90Hz vs 144Hz demonstration on my 60Hz monitor. Hmmm

[@facug21]

On a 30hz video :P

[@faerie_soup]

@@facug21 30 fps, not hz

[@Einar979]

@@faerie_soup You can say Hz instead of fps.. Hz just means the frequency of something happening each second..

[@madhaha]

This video is 30fps so you're not getting the full benefit from your 60hz monitor anyway :P

[@justbelikebrett6056]

@@Einar979 No because "HZ" is the refresh rate on the MONITOR. In which he said 60hz. The video runs at 30fps. There is a difference.

[@techiefIve]

My takeaway: This headset is pretty nice, BUT THESE CONTROLLERS!

[@-Twotonepony-]

Exactly

[@MFSGamePlay]

Yeah, I need those. I think that was the best part of the video.

[@YakAlmighty]

Im regretting canceling my pre order now lol

[@lordofsucc4467]

That's what I am blowing my money on. Those controllers I saw on Node or Corridor Crew and I just instantly fell in love with how much more freedom you get with those controllers.

[@serios2729]

Personally I'm gonna stick with the cv1 until the new valve in a couple years

[@edwargo]

I knew we wouldn't see HL3 until Valve got their own VR tech in order. Valve was waiting until HL3 could be genre-defining in the same way as HL1 and HL2 before it. Mark my words...

[@NickyDekker89]

That's going to be a mindblowing experience.

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

Finally Gordon can communicate with NPCs, but only if the player knows ASL. Edit: actually having a sign language to speech/text program via gesture recognition would potentially be really cool if it can be developed using this tech, which may not be ready for it. Would be useful for places like Asia where creating a keyboard that can accommodate all of the characters in a given language has been an engineering nightmare and requires a whole bunch of work arounds.

[@steviesavagery]

They have some game that you can use a crowbar that looks exactly like the one from half life. I totally agree and have said the same thing, hl3 will be VR and it will bring VR into the mainstream as a key feature for many games

[@rdowg]

@@steviesavagery it's kinda hard to be mainstream with how expensive all that equipment still is.

[@steviesavagery]

Rd owg i’m not talking “soon”, this is setting up framesworks and testbeds for the future

[@LordVis]

18:08 Valve has said that the additional power is required for the speakers.

[@ntsarb]

Besides the speakers, the integrated USB hub (e.g. for powering the front-facing USB device) also needs additional power.

[@lProN00bl]

Am I the only one that prefers headphones? I don't want people hearing me play cringey songs on beatsabers around me thanks.

[@_grotto]

@@lProN00bl I hated having to use earbuds/headphones on the vive. earbuds because i have small ears and they tend to feel uncomfortable really quickly, and headphones because it adds an extra clunky feeling.

[@LordVis]

@@lProN00bl Devs who have the headsets already say that if you are more than a few feet from the headset then you can't hear anything. Apparently they are very directional speakers.

[@lProN00bl]

@@LordVis Thanks for this I feel a lot better about it now. I'm an august boi so haven't committed yet.

[@ilovemyhonda250ex]

Norm, I remember watching your original oculus DK1 review when it came out and being so excited. I feel like this is the product I've been waiting for since that day. Thanks!

[@mickel836]

No, Thanks Valve!

[@dtz1000]

@Meepbob...Pimax 8KX is the product I've been waiting for. It is VR 2.0. This Index is more like VR 1.4.

[@GrumblyAirMonk]

I would much rather pay $1000 for this than a new iPhone

[@mot8862]

GrumblyAirMonk hell yeah, screw iPhone

[@TheMegaManPlays]

and a pc pretty much does all of these (it doesn't track heart rate)

[@TheMegaManPlays]

@@Stone815 you need a pc to use the valve index, i think?

[@GrumblyAirMonk]

Michael Maxime fist, it’s just not a “monitor and controller” there’s the software and technology that allows you to be more immerse. Second: all those things you mentioned can be done on a $200 phone too. Also it’s all about the experience

[@maggs734]

Firstly, OP says he'd rather buy an Index than the $1k iphone, not that it is better. Secondly, he did not say he does not own a phone. Thus, he might have a cheaper phone which will probably do most of the things you listed. He is just saying that he personally feels more like buying an index than an ipohone at the same price, and you're reading way more into it.

[@CarrotSurvivor]

Here's what Ars Technica wrote on the sweet spot: (guys read the other reviews released today aswell!!) Where Rift S subtly improved those factors, however, Index steamrolls the competition. This is most evident when using Index while typing and mousing around a Windows desktop while wearing the headset. When I peripherally peek at a chat interface and a Twitch video stream while typing in a central window, the resulting peripheral pixels are still admittedly a tad blurry, but not as much as with last-gen headsets, and peripheral smearing doesn't begin until the roughly 105-degree point on Index. On the Vive Pro, that peripheral smearing starts at roughly the 80-degree point and is more severe. That direct comparison to Vive Pro makes me pretty hopeful.

[@henryyopp9094]

@@suicidalbanananana It appears that what Norm considers to be the definition of sweet spot and what UploadVR and Ars Technica considers it to be, are not the same. Norm is talking about if the HMD shifts on your face but still maintains visual clarity. UploadVR and Ars Technica are talking about keeping the HMD stationary on your face and looking around with your eyeballs vs. moving your head/neck to look around. It seems the VR industry has yet to agree on what "sweet spot" actually means.

[@VirtualRealityPilot]

Definitely excited for higher refresh rate VR. Looks like the market is diverging into quick and easy access lower frame rate devices and very high end tethered experiences. 2019 is set to be a great year for VR.

[@nhh12345]

@@Somtric Just because you can't see a difference, doesn't mean that the rest of us can't. It's easy for me to see the difference between 60 and 100+. I even have a couple examples that prove it. Long story short, after I got my 144Hz monitor I noticed two of my games seemed like they were were not running at full 144. After looking both of them up, they were indeed both hard-capped at 60fps.

[@TheOGjarilo]

@@Somtric Your eye balls are broken. They just told you in this review right here right now that they did.

[@sqlevolicious]

@@Somtric Shut up troll, nothing you say has any value.

[@Accurize2]

“It was like a screen door, it was triangular. Whereas this is like a grid.” Since when are screen doors triangular?!

[@VioletteLundsten]

I think he said rectangular

[@Pandonaut]

@@VioletteLundsten he said triangular

[@FineNerds]

He was referring to when you look through a screen door, you can see the mesh edges.

[@chaotic_enby2625]

͏͏͏͏FineNerds but those aren’t triangular too.

[@bliglum]

Haha, I caught that too.. I think he was mixing up screen doors, and chain link fences.. Pentile displays are like looking through a chain link fence.

[@SweViver]

Thanks for a very interesting review guys!

[@MobileDecay]

Why hello. 😊

[@ThePianohack]

Thanks for this. I have always trusted and respected your reviews.

[@RayRift]

You guys work SO WELL together! Thank you for the ongoing procurement of genius level thought flows!

[@Eli9A]

this controller is the coolest thing to ever come out since video games came out. this just step into another whole level of game play

[@AE-dn8es]

Hahaha no episode 3 coming. Wew! was waiting for this. Thanks Jeremy and Norm!

[@spark-e]

Well we're not getting Episode 3. But we are getting a new Half Life game.

[@evelyneglass8574]

I could've sworn you said "Thanks Tom and Jerry!" 😂

[@TheOGjarilo]

Looks amazing, Getting the knuckles stand alone first. Hopefully they get a wireless solution later.

[@-Twotonepony-]

I'm right there with you. I don't think I'm willing to go back to a wired experience. But I gotta get them knuckles.

[@lecter1531]

Yep, need those controllers, but there's no way I'm getting tied down by a cable again.

[@rameynoodles152]

What headset do you currently use that isn't wired? The wire and the size of the "sweet spot" on the lenses of my current vive are the major drawbacks for me.

[@-Twotonepony-]

@@rameynoodles152 I'm just using an OG Vive with the Vive Wireless. It's a really good wireless solution that gives me very few issues and I never wire it ever. But it won't solve the sweet spot issue you're having. It all looks pretty good for me.

[@TheOGjarilo]

@@rameynoodles152 Vive and Vive Pro. I don't have issues with getting a sweet spot.

[@vertisce2845]

"Index Controllers"...no, sorry Valve but I am going to continue calling them "Knuckles"!

[@nathanielreed9507]

Why are they fighting this

[@vertisce2845]

@@nathanielreed9507 No idea. Knuckles is clearly the better name for them!

[@nathanielreed9507]

They have to accept kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6HIaGiAp6-lask

[@mickel836]

@@vertisce2845 Knuckles just doesn't have the same sound, and feel as good Its sort of how apple names stuff

[@fusseldusel]

Uganda approves your message

[@AlteQT]

God i cant wait to get my knuckles. Been waiting ever since they first showed them off

[@ashurgeorge4604]

I'm using a 240hz monitor... and i came from a 60 hz panel. THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE~!

[@MatchTerm]

Can confirm. from 30 (when I was on the PS4) to 144 is night and day. I can't imagine how that effect will be in VR! Damint tho, every video of this I'm getting teased like hell: I'm part of the second batch, so it's gonna come in September

[@nhh12345]

Yeah the difference between 60Hz and 144 is very noticeable, especially for someone who's been gaming at 60 for over 15 years. There are still a lot of people who think it's placebo, though. Obviously they haven't tried anything over 60.

[@juniorc1521]

Damn I just got my 1080TI like 6 months ago now they're telling me I gotta shell out for the headset and another 2080 card just to reach that level of clarity? Guess im sticking with my vive for now. No wonder VR is taking off at a snails pace.

[@nhh12345]

@@juniorc1521 Is the 1080Ti not compatible? Seems like that card should be more than fast enough. Maybe I'm missing something.

[@juniorc1521]

@@nhh12345 Well I think Jeremy said to utilize the max 144hz that you would need a 2080 most likely. I ordered the knuckles on pre order release day but was gonna wait a while to see the headset reviews and then make that purchase a little down the road. I just got a 1080Ti about 6 months ago. If I gotta upgrade to a 2080 I think ill pass on the headset altogether and just wait for a next gen headset however long that takes.

[@jamesshride3158]

@24:30 - Lifetime shooter here. Too much grip causes inconsistency. Same with motorcycles, new riders tend to over squeeze subconsciously... nerves. This leads to someting we call "arm Pump". Cramps and fatigue.

[@Silvertinge291]

Brrraaaapp brraaapp

[@nikitafeoktistov8029]

I love this headset. Currently, tech companies seem to want to make people rely on upgrading their tech to some new model they release each year. With this they included so many great features along with the frunk and cameras that help the headset stand the test of time way past when they would end up becoming outdated. I hope people end up using those front cameras for AR games too. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone made a leap motion app using those cams.

[@colinyoung3685]

19:30 Knuckles, for those who just ordered the controllers.

[@irnbruboy9442]

That eye relief looks much more than 1cm, more like an inch.

[@FTGTapGod]

Very excited for mine to come in, but the comments about the optics were very disappointing... Everything else looks great, but I was really excited for new optics...

[@AlexysRM]

You have to remember that they've spent a lot of time with all of the newest HMDs coming out this year. After you've gotten used to the Rift S, HP Reverb, and the other high resolution LCD panels then the Index will feel more incremental. If all you've experienced before though is the Vive OR CV1 then I think you'll be blown away by the clarity of Index.

[@underflip2]

upload VR said that the sweetspot is huge compared to all the other headsets and you can look around just with your eyes. They also said that there are rings like on the vive but you only notice them at the edges. All in all the lenses are much better than before

[@nrosko]

I think the confusion is around definition of the term sweet spot. it seems sweet spot of the index regarding making sure you put the headset on correctly is similar to gen 1 but once it's on correctly there is less distortion in your fov.

[@henryyopp9094]

@michael b It appears that what Norm considers to be the definition of sweet spot and what UploadVR considers it to be, are not the same. Norm is talking about if the HMD shifts on your face but still maintains visual clarity. UploadVR is talking about keeping the HMD stationary on your face and looking around with your eyeballs vs. moving your head/neck to look around. It seems the VR industry has yet to agree on what "sweet spot" actually means.

[@FTGTapGod]

@@nrosko I saw Norm's clarification later on on Reddit. Definitely more hopeful, but Godrays are still up in the air. There seems to be quite a bit of disparity between reviewers. This could all come down to Jargon, but who knows. Still staying hopeful.

[@ariarasti7606]

please make a compare for text legibility between valve index and hp reverb

[@nequals151]

Yep. Same. I would love reverb text readability with knuckles controllers. Too much to ask? Prolly.

[@noth606]

Well it would be subjective anyway I think, obviously smaller text will be sharper on the reverb since it packs more pixels into what is effectively a fairly smaller FOV from what I've understood, however I doubt the reverb is going to be at a level where you can read unzoomed text in a desktop resolution virtually at least without squinting... I have a Pimax 5K+ and I have yet to have any issues reading in game prompts so long as I don't push the resolution too much, in for example VorpX playing normal games. The only exception is when they stick your health bars/number to the far outer edges of the FOV, which a fair bit of games unfortunately do.

[@VladQuake]

nequals 1 no. If you have the base stations and a vice or the usb receivers you can already use wmr with vive wands using openVR input tools

[@pumpuppthevolume]

@@noth606 subjective?? steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1359389601 just get this and see what is readable from where the hp is double the number of pixels and smaller fov than the index it will be way better .....but still not that close to 20/20 human vision

[@DrTheRich]

it has the same as the quest i believe. on the quest i can comfortably read text from websites and so on. on the vive it's just to low resolution. on the quest it's just enough to be comfortable

[@antivanti]

I'd like to try Boneworks with those controllers...

[@h4724-q6j]

That's what it's designed for.

[@Duhya]

I'd like to try Boneworks full stop. Unless it's out and I didn't notice.

[@BLINDrOBOTFILMS]

@@Duhya Not yet, they just released another demo on Node though. I hope it's out by the time my Index ships in September though.

[@kasuraga]

13:24 The original vive DID come with headphones. It came with ear buds that attached to a short 3.5mm extension cable that plugged into the headset. They were ok for bundled earbuds, but i have studio headphones so i always used those.

[@SupremeWolf890]

hey miss could i see your panties

[@TexRobNC]

Probably the most anticipated video for me in recent history, loving it so far!

[@ME10920]

This is what I'm holding out for!

[@grrinc]

F# metoo

[@zenithquasar9623]

Headset feels a bit underwhelming to me for the price tbh. I’ll wait for gen 2 but this is Valve, so doubt that’ll happen.

[@h4724-q6j]

@@zenithquasar9623 Gabe said that they were going to make the technology as good as possible before trying to bring the price down, so I'd expect at least one more generation from Valve.

[@zenithquasar9623]

@@h4724-q6j I hope so, just can't trust Valve because they are pretty all around the place.

[@robdfar]

Waste of money they skipped a lot of corners

[@MattLathrum]

This is a really informative look at the hardware. I appreciated the detail on the ergonomics like the foam, in/out headset knob, and arm swing test with the controllers. On the first day using my WMR Acer headset, I found the lenses got scratched by my glasses and I ended up 3d printing lens holders and got $20 prescription lenses. By being able to move the headset outwards, that tells me they solved that problem.

[@leviblack7036]

I found with my gear VR that it didn't fit with my glasses correctly. Also with one of the hosts comments about it felt like his eyelashes were about to hit the lenses, mine actually do. My eyelashes and eyebrows are always greasing up the lenses on my glasses and sunglasses, and my Gear VR lenses are not immune.

[@youmongrel]

Valve huh? Shame they’ll never make a third generation...

[@blobworksbits7610]

Hey hey hey, let's call this one the first one okay? The Vive was by HTC... technically? So that will give us at least one more to the Index 2 :D

[@Sniperahead]

@@blobworksbits7610 So should I wait for the 2.0?

[@das_right9657]

@@Sniperahead i'd expect their next headset to drop around late 2023 to 2026 so if you want the newest in VR for many years to come buy this. However if it's not quite advanced enough for you to put money into it i'm sure the next headset will be much more advanced if you can take the wait. Personally i'll be purchasing this (upgrading from an original rift)

[@Sniperahead]

@@das_right9657 ok, see you in VR :P

[@youmongrel]

joseph samano whoosh and you don’t understand the reference

[@blackmanfu]

"I wonder why the index still requires additional power while the Rift S doesn't" It's the audio. There are widespread issues of Rift S crashing because it tries to draw too much power for its speakers. Turning down the volume or using earphones on the Rift S usually fixes it. Valve's speakers would need a lot more power than USB 3.0 is specced for. EDIT: and any custom components added to the Frunk may need extra power too. They are future-proofing it, not slapping cheap stuff together and saying "good enough."

[@Blamkrotch]

@blackmanfu or maybe to run your cappuccino machine in the frunk!

[@blackmanfu]

@Mike Studmuffin considering original usb 3.0 is only rated to 4.5 watts (0.9A x 5V) and the usb still has to power the screen, internal components, and the sound, it's no wonder many (but not all) users experience issues with Rift S black screen.

[@robbiel8677]

The shiny front panel reminds me of the early oculus rift consumer version concept image. Back when the development kits were getting shipped.

[@donjonson9587]

Hoooooo!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

No one mentioned that the lighthouses make an annoying high pitched buzzing noise and uses lasers (probably not healthy being blasted with lasers). The Audio is the best thing about the Index, great speakers, and adjustable. I didn't keep it because the price, the sensors noise/lasers, and I found it is heavy and uncomfortable, compared to the Rift S. The fabric is nice but It needs MORE padding, didn't feel like a gel pad to me, maybe they cheaped out on that part on the newer models? 11:45 Oh yeah I did notice it moves out of the sweet spot giving not so sharp display, where Rift S stays in place more without having to strap down so hard it hurts my face. Field of view and resolution is a little higher on the index over the Rift S but not too big of a difference. Biggest difference is the audio and the price.

[@ERWebster]

I'm really excited about this, it ticks so many boxes. The resolution, refresh rate, controllers, and speakers are all looking awesome. But, at $1000, I am a little disappointed in the god-ray having optics. They are so close to a best available experience, I don't know why they would compromise or skimp or just ignore improving the lenses. Are the lenses interchangeable? Can they be safely removed and replaced with upgraded/prescription lenses by the end user?

[@ariarasti7606]

Resolution isnt enough for me too. For me the best factors are 1) New Audio model 2) Fov and then comfort, controllers and ofc refresh rate is very important too but if you are seeing or playing something in fast movement. Resolution and Fov are the most important things about VR in general.

[@ERWebster]

@@ariarasti7606 My priorities are a little different. FOV has never been an issue for me, I guess my peripheral vision isn't all that great. The Oculus CV1 is fine for me in that regard, any extra is just bonus. Resolution though is tricky. Obviously more is better, but we are in a situation where the absolute best performing top of the line $1300 video card can't provide 90+ fps in the most demanding games. As resolution increases, we also need graphic fidelity to increase as well otherwise we will just have more pixels to look at the poor geometry and low-res textures, which means an exponential cuvre in terms of needed performance. I think the resolution they choose is appropriate for right now. My hope is that nVidia or AMD make some massive breakthrough in performance, whether that is enabling multiple cards for VR rendering, or FOVeated rendering, or some other specific VR optimizations. Then we can move up to 4k per eye at 144Hz, and maybe have the processing power to push those kinds of pixels.

[@sqlevolicious]

@@ariarasti7606 Resolution does not matter for VR. What makes a clear image in VR is a combination of lens and display design which accounts for the PPD. The Index has 50% more subpixels than the vive pro. The Index is the HMD you want if you are after a clear and crisp image.

[@ErikPukinskis]

I'm really disappointed there are no eye tracking cameras and no downward-facing (body tracking) camera. Feels like that's the final missing hardware piece for basic social interactions hitting parity with in-person interactions.

[@crash7976]

I honestly never notice god rays beyond dark menu screens with white text.

[@benbionic]

You can do input config stuff for defaults in steamVR I have my knuckles working with a custom input config

[@afriendofjamis]

What's your opinion on the analog stick's placement? Is it too far away from the center of the controller to cramp up thumbs?

[@benbionic]

@@afriendofjamis not really. The hand size change thing makes it so the buttons and stick are always the right distance away. So yeah with that a bit and you'll find what's comfortable I light second from largest setting my self. Also you hardly used the stick in any games.

[@herrwahnsinn4229]

Have you used them on that drunk bar fight game? Or can you lol.

[@Gonzax]

@@benbionic What do you mean you hardly use the stick in any games? I use the sticks with my Rift for absolutely every game and I hope I can do the same with the Index controllers.

[@Taijifufu]

gonzax I think he means games with support for _these_ controllers atm generally focus the gameplay more on the hand and finger tracking aspect. Cuz why make a *pre-launch* Index game to demonstrate an experience you can get on another older headset? We'll see more diverse games eventually.

[@kevinruppert7665]

You guys are awesome!! Always so knowledgeable and thorough. Keep it up :-)

[@Super_Hex]

The sweetspot and godrays sound like a deal breaker to me. For some reason I expected improvements on those, but I guess I'll just stick to my lens modded Vive for now

[@thecoyotespeaks9649]

The fact the FOV is increased without actually being increased is a big deal to me :)

[@GiffysChannel]

I am certainly looking forward to this headset. Seems like the perfect upgrade from the original vive/rift.

[@Warfalcon]

Not sold on the HMD but I like the controllers and it's a little more FoV so might bite. Just wish someone would come out with Pimax FoV, Vive Pro colors and Oculus like software at 120Hz

[@chunkylover5367]

I should have preorded day1. Hopefully I get mine by September.

[@MrVuckFiacom]

I tried too, but it sold out within minutes... Not to mention many scalpers bought a bunch of them up as well :/

[@chunkylover5367]

Mr Vuck Fiacom I think they were available all day. Maybe it was with the base stations I was looking at.

[@VoodooDE_VR]

This is very interesting. Cant wait to review the Index when I get my pre-order on June 28

[@moritz3907]

VoodooDE VR Freue mich auf dein Review! :-D

[@lifeartstudios6207]

Hey owner of knuckles dev kit here, there are in fact safety wrist straps in the package. I use them because I have thrown my knuckles on a sweaty beat saber session. Just letting yall know

[@LordVis]

Thank you! I always had the fear that would happen eventually so I was planning to always use the straps anyway :)

[@lifeartstudios6207]

@@LordVis no problem my dude, hit me up with any other questions

[@Mirtrius]

How much does it weigh? It looks smaller than the OG Vive so I've been wondering if it's lighter, which would be a big factor for added comfort.

[@wiks50]

Thats true, I own the Vive and you do feel the weight of it. Would be sweet if Index is lighter than Vive.

[@Mankepanke]

I heard the weight was increased. Ballpark from the top of my head was 860g versus something like 600g

[@lifeartstudios6207]

@@Mankepanke oof

[@fuzzyduckgaming3806]

Wow the look of the quality of material looks so much better than any other headset.. Which I suppose you would expect with the price tag..

[@pumpuppthevolume]

well vive pro and vive pro eye and pimax r more expensive.... unless the vive pro price is down

[@underflip2]

What do you know. You do get what you pay for ;-p

[@LordVis]

My favorite quote about the Index is something like "It looks like at every opportunity they chose the more expensive higher quality option"

[@user-es8qx5uj2h]

Love how Jeremy always sais, it is Jeremy from TEST-ed, as if Norm said it wrong.

[@Cl0udgard3n]

i hate it

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

This actually makes me interested in VR gaming when I wasn't before. I'm impressed at the level of immersion that you guys are describing and showed off in the videos.

[@sqlevolicious]

VR has been like this for years, you are missing out.

[@Nochift138]

My preordered Valve Index kit arrives Monday, can't wait!

[@levingthedream]

Productivity review please? What's it like reading a .pdf or documentation on a website?

[@anthonycherveny7444]

26:00, we saw you tesing the bird, and then realize you’re recording😂

[@mechafizz9159]

Can you go more in depth in terms of clarity say compared to the Vive Pro

[@nrosko]

I would advise to read some of the other more in depth previews some of which compare the screens of the 2 headsets.

[@FlameSoulis]

17:25 you can kinda already do this if you have it active. Just tap the steam/menu button twice to activate the overlay. By default, it uses edge detection, but you can just turn on normal view mode... which looks weird because it's stretching a mono display.

[@xdxwills]

Everyone is talking about the controllers, I’m glad you guys took the time to cover everything about the headset itself

[@RyanHawley76]

Awesome! I'm sticking with my Pimax 5k+ and getting knuckles and will be happy for now. I hope the Index brings more players into VR!

[@trashman9948]

Heads up, AFAIK Knuckles are not operable with Pimax HMD's as of yet.

[@cory9278]

With that price tag it won't, the rift s and quest will bring more people to it. Especially since Facebook it backing it and pushing ads on FB, INSTA, and a few other sites

[@RyanHawley76]

​Yeah, though, they have said they will support them. Hopefully by the time they ship. There is a work around on the forums though: forum.pimaxvr.com/t/knuckles-controller-index-controller-dont-work-with-pimax-edit-now-it-works-workaround-found/19940/23

[@RyanHawley76]

We need booth higher end HMD's and more affordable ones for the masses. We have that with both now.

[@RavaGames]

@@trashman9948 They work fine as of a couple months ago. Used Knuckles DVs just a couple hours ago with 5k+.

[@Aeriant.]

I'm so glad i bought base stations for my hybrid Oculus and vive tracker fully body set up, because the only upgrade over the rift imo is the index and that's a steep price to swallow. thank god its only 750$ for me

[@meltdowninteractivemedia]

If I buy the index do I need to buy the base stations too? I don't have any existing VR hardware.

[@dragormeghar2100]

@@meltdowninteractivemedia Yes you will. but make sure to reserve the full kit, it will be cheaper if price is a big factor to you (shipping is free and taxes depend on your state/country) (some states don't make you pay out of state tax so it was a flat price of what I saw with no additional costs). As of now you won't be paying just getting a spot in line to pay later down the year when they fill current back orders. you would be notified via email and have 7 days to pay when received to keep your spot in line for shipping. If you want the absolute best tracking index is the way to go though. trust me when I say lighthouse tracking is amazing. You will easily get lost in vr. and the new light house's have an even wider FOV so even farther/better tracking. They are also slightly faster in their update speed so the tracking would be even smoother. Your first time will be damn near magical. kinda jealous the index and controllers will be your first experience as well :P VR is an entirely different amazing level of gaming.

[@meltdowninteractivemedia]

@@dragormeghar2100 thanks for the advice, appreciate it :)

[@funghus4714]

@@meltdowninteractivemedia it depends on what you like to do in vr. if you just want to fly sims or race cars you only need ONE base station an no controllers. For a full roomscale experience you need the complete kit.

[@meltdowninteractivemedia]

@@funghus4714 Thanks yes I think the full kit is the way to go. I'm a game developer too and developing for VR is something I will be doing down the line so it makes sense to be able to do everything neccessary.

[@0meat]

Jeremy is literally bouncing with excitement at the start of the video. Do we really need to know more?

[@TrevorJones1]

yes actually

[@doctor_fill]

Store page mentions "2 Base Station Stands with Mounting Hardware" are the stands an alternative to wall mounting, or are the stands what connects them to the wall and the mountings hardware just the bag of screws at 1:00

[@lucasandrescosta391]

So excited for the future of VR, i hope in 2 or 3 years we can have a similar experience like this in Quest 2 or something like that

[@HeadsetHistorian]

20:45 When you're addicted to VR but your headset is broken.

[@matrixarsmusicworkshop561]

XD

[@ATestamentToTech]

Nice!!

[@dragonboya33able]

God rays are disappointing, but I'm still super excited to get mine.

[@DalaiLamaNYF]

Does it have wireless like VIve?

[@octoman_games]

GOD RAYS for me are by FAR the killer! I can deal with lower resolutions, I can deal with screen door effect, but those god damn god rays are a deal breaker!

[@oasistimes]

@Zatoichi I have news for you... the S has god rays, just not as bad as before! If you tried a Go it would be similar.

[@octoman_games]

@Zatoichi I know You felt like me when you put on that Rift for the first time... Them GOD RAYS SUCKED!

[@CreeplexHD]

@Zatoichi Well, Oculus Rift S still has godrays, especially if you're out of the fixed lense IPD range, but the effect sure is greatly reduced.

[@julianlockwood3040]

The field of view comparison shots here seem to only differ in the vertical plain.

[@CalebSalstrom]

I think it's very difficult to show the fov over youtube

[@judgese7s]

Preordered mine and cant bloody wait for it!!

[@underflip2]

same here =)

[@IamQuoz]

What I'm most interested in is whether or not there any good vr games actually coming out... I've pretty much only played beatsaber up to this point. I dont see the point in upgrading from my shitty psvr yet. Am I just not looking hard enough?

[@sqlevolicious]

Yes, you just have not looked and payed any attention to what is out (especially the AAA VR games). Go to steam vr games, choose "top selling". All within the first 5 pages have very good games that even the polished PSVR games cannot equate to (a few of them were ported to PSVR too!). About a handful of VR games with have serious replayability. Maybe 3 or 4 that you would play everyday. There are 4,500+ VR games on steam alone, it will take lots of time, but there are hidden gems such as Chroma Lab, Compound, Cosmic Trip, Tethered, VTOLVR, Climbey, ect. You also have tons of VR ports such as skyrim VR, FO4VR, The Forest, NMSVR (coming this summer), Universe sandbox2, Megaton Rainfall, E:D, PC2, AC, Xplane11, War Thunder, ect. Also get the free stuff you'll never stop playing like Google Earth VR, Rec room, The Lab, Welcome to Lightfields, ect. Then there is the oculus store (you can play them with revive), lots of great games on that too, but a small library compared to steam, but most of the games have AAA polish such as Lone Echo, Robo Recall, Moss (also on steamvr), Vader Immortal (coming soon), Lucky's Tale, The unspoken, Edge of Nowhere, and Wilson's Heart. The reason you don't know about this stuff is becasue of how completely different a game feels and looks in VR compared to watching gameplay on a 2d display. Even the most simple and terrible looking games can be the system sellers, such as Onward :) Happy hunting!

[@IamQuoz]

@@sqlevolicious Hey, thanks for the response! I'm looking for games like superhot vr, games that really get your blood pumping. How would you say blades and sorcery holds up? Do you think my 1060 6gb can handle pcvr? Planning on getting an index when its more available and if the reviews for it are as good as I think they will be. I'm looking into some of the games you said, google earth seems really cool.

[@IamQuoz]

@@sqlevolicious Also, I know its like night and day but just how shitty is psvr compared to the more expensive stuff? I'm mostly annoyed by the god awful tracking.

[@ziggytubey]

so.. is the scuba mask effect gone?... a wider FOV that takes away the scuba mask effect means a world of difference.

[@MrCatlolz]

You need to go to Pimax for it. But they're a class above Index regarding the pricepoint as well...

[@dennisvanderpool4459]

My brother swears with the HP Reverb because of the higher resolution. I went for the Valve Index as it's a better total package imo. Could you do a comparision between both of them?

[@-Timur1214]

You brother can wait for a VERY LONG time then lol

[@Peh84]

Can't wait. My Index Controller ship in a month.

[@totzfx]

mine says estimate ship September 30 how???

[@dragormeghar2100]

@@totzfx first wave preorders went out of stock quick as hell. the full kit went out of stock within 24 minutes in the U.S and from there it just kept getting backordered as more people reserved individual parts to get it earlier. First wave ships late june, which I am in as well as OP :P had to be there for the launch countdown to be first wave more or less.

[@Peh84]

@@dragormeghar2100 I only ordered the Index controllers. The still ship until end of June.

[@totzfx]

Dragor Meghar your so lucky ;-;

[@rowanunderwood]

No I loved the flat cable, because it was visually apparent how many twists were in it!

[@VR_Wizard]

6:10 In my opinion these edges are very distracting. I tried that with the GearVR when you remove the face cushen you can also increase the field of view but these edges make it look strange.

[@bronks1200]

The god rays on Vive have never bothered me so it looks like I’ll keep that reservation for the headset...for two more months 😩

[@ecognitio9605]

Best VR Headset hand down! Day one buy.

[@TheOGjarilo]

Add wireless and I will then agree.

[@ariarasti7606]

@@TheOGjarilo Add better panels with more resolution and ill agree.

[@sqlevolicious]

@@TheOGjarilo Wireless is most definitely coming, valve has expressed 100% commitment to it.

[@stanthechanman]

Imagine how cool a VR Spider-Man game would be.

[@GaminwithGamers]

Stanley Chan both marvel spiderman movies got their own little mini games where you swing around as spiderman, a full game would be amazing though

[@01_SPACE_C0WB0Y]

I just bought a vive back at Christmas, I knew should have waited... I'm still gonna buy the knuckles.

[@MyStolenAimbot]

You can always sell it and make most of your money back. VR headsets keep most of their value.

[@craig1287]

Great video. I'll be getting my Index and the controllers in June and testing it out to see how durable it is and many other things. Fingers crossed it passes all the tests and I can buy eight more of them for my VR arcade and switch from using the Vive Pro HMDs.

[@markkovalcson7243]

I think you confused people with your sweet spot comments. It appears you are using "sweet spot" for different things. 1. How much you can move your eyeballs around and still get a distortion free clear image ( with the headset adjusted properly ) 2. How much you can move your head relative to the headset without losing your clear image. Maybe we need a different term for each of these. What I read repeatedly is that once properly adjusted that the Index allows you to look basically edge to edge with your eyeball and get a clear image and I think this is what most people call the sweet spot. This video seemed to contradict that to many people.

[@henryyopp9094]

Exactly, I refer to #2 as "sweetspot" and I made up a word for #1, "eye look". I based this word on the fact that it refers to you looking with your eyes and that for monitor games "mouse look" refers to looking around the environment with your mouse vs. your eyes with VR.

[@markkovalcson7243]

@@henryyopp9094 Thanks for that clarification. I still think this is a point of confusion because most reviews I've read refer to #1 as sweet spot. Please don't take this as criticism. I'm not saying you are wrong and they are right, just that reviewers are not in agreement on terms.

[@markkovalcson7243]

I just read this in response to what is the sweet spot questions which would support that this review used the term properly. The other term "saccades" is totally foreign to me. However I read many more responses that suggest most people use sweet spot for both. ARGH!!!! "The sweet spot is the area in the middle of the lens in which your pupil needs to be in order to get a clear image. Having a larger sweet spot makes it easier to position the headset in a way that gives you a clear image, and reduces risk of image blurring if the headset shifts around on your face while moving. In addition to this, different lenses can allow for varying degrees of saccades (eye movements) while maintaining a clear image. Vive's lenses, for example, don't allow for a lot of eye saccades - if you look away from straight ahead, the image quickly grows increasingly blurry. Rift's lenses allow almost edge-to-edge clarity, and Go's lenses increase this clarity even further."

[@photocrafting6068]

True Pimax had a very small sweet spot. But once you have it the clarity is sharp at about 130 degrees and softens after that but would require real eyestrain to see it.

[@starscream2092]

From average consumer this type of tech is best when you buy it 1 - 2 years from release. Softwarwe is better and it should be a bit cheaper

[@garymarshstein8992]

This is probably the review I've been waiting on more than any other over the last couple years. Let's see if my preconceptions are right or wrong...I've been skeptical about the value of the higher hz after reading so many Rift S reviewers say they don't notice 80hz compared to the 90hz of the CV1. Low persistence on the other hand? I'm guessing is equally important, and the Index has very low persistence.

[@Withlovefrominterent]

When somebody is used to console 30 fps, they are comfortable with that and don't know any better. If that person switches to a 60 FPS PC experience at some point, they usually notice more fluidity to their in-game motions, and on switching back to 30 FPS , they notice a big decrease in their ability to make tight and accurate maneuvers in a game. If the 60 FPS player then switches to a 120 hz or 144 hz monitor, the increase in fluid motion is just as dramatic as it was to 60 from 30. Once a player is used to the experience of 120 or higher FPS, switching back to 60 FPS again is a noticeable downgrade that the player has trouble adjusting to again. I say all of this from my own experience. Once you get used to 120 hz or more, 60 FPS has a noticeable "lag" and I find it difficult to be anywhere near as competitive. Increasing the frames per second is very much akin to removing layers of separation between yourself and the game, where-as fewer FPS seems like there is an artificial layer of difficulty added, sort of like a slow internet connection that is disrupting the experience. I suspect that playing VR with a higher refresh rate will closely match the experience I had when switching to PC and then upgrading further to a faster monitor.

[@underflip2]

@@suicidalbanananana you also have to remember that even though psvr is 120hz 98% of games run at 60 fps. With the index and a PC you can push that framerate up to 120 fps and it will make a massive difference

[@Zan_Jayna]

I bet a lot of people trying it wear glasses IRL

[@sqlevolicious]

You should understand that it's impossible to tell a 10fps difference, but presence doesn't really start until around 70-90hz depending on the person. It's fair to say that sitting at the bare minimum is unacceptable. Perfect example is PSVR which is most often at 60fps and reprojected to 120, but is still noticeable since the software isn't great. Which is why lots of people get sick using it. I've had my vive for 3 years and even I get pretty sick after using the PSVR for more than 20min.

[@sqlevolicious]

@@suicidalbanananana PSVR is not 120hz, it's reprojected from 60fps. If the software is better, it could be smoothed out, but since the processing power has a very small amount of headroom, the PSVR is simply below the threshold for acceptable VR. It's easy to tell by trying PSVR and then trying PCVR (I own both)

[@TheJAMF]

The charger for the index controllers... I was bloody annoyed that the Vive had two wall warts, one for each controller. So have they just one now, with two USB ports?

[@hydzior]

They should go with recharchable AA batteries. For easy and quick changing to new ones.

[@TheJAMF]

@@hydzior Big ones, like the 2170 types. :)

[@CaptnYestrday]

The cable from the breakout box to the OG Vive is the same length as the cable from the Trident connector to the Index. Added together, the length length of cable between PC and headset is the same

[@druarde]

This may be the first half-hour long video I've watched on KZbin where I actually wanted it to keep going

[@TurnRacing]

you guys are doing an awesome job keep it up

[@Puffycheeks]

Here is my question. Will this personally be your go to headset?

[@MFSGamePlay]

I believe for now, yes. The frame rate and FOV is the sell point.

[@VeryDavidChannel]

Awesome video! And this headset is looking like my fav vr headset of all time!

[@DJHeroMasta]

18:04 Cause Oculus fluffed up! Even when plugged into my USB 3.1 Gen 2 port my Rift S still has a crap ton of issues that makes me want to rip my hair out.

[@nathanmaloy1017]

DJHeroMasta I guess that’s what happens when oculus out sources the headset

[@mikerotch8375]

The Star wars games that can be made with those controllers are gonna be amazing. Force push and pull can now be done now that you can open your hand without dropping the controller.

[@ecyor0]

Everyone else: OMG, new super-amazing VR headset! Me: so what you're telling me is that there's gonna be a drop in the 2nd-hand HTC vive market price? Nice.

[@TrevorJones1]

not really , because people will not be selling their lighthouses. And the price of 2 lighthouses and a second hand vive headset you may as well buy a new vive

[@Capricorn_IV]

Hi Norm, just a quick question... Do you see a digital display inside the headset when you change the ipd adjustment or do you have to guess?

[@edquint]

It's steamvr so it will have a display

[@Maker_HQ]

Latest Vive comes with Vive Pro-style cable to link box FYI

[@theqwertylink]

What does valve say about cleaning the facegasket? Is it better that HTC's "Oh just gently wipe down with a damp cloth"? As someone that uses my vive almost everyday, a simple wipe down does nothing to keeping it clean I bought some PU leather foam replacement from VR Covers and even those are hard to keep to what I would say is clean.

[@jdawgzim]

Frunk = Kinect style attachment that hangs down for mouth, legs, and hand tracking. At least that's what I want. :-)

[@h4724-q6j]

It's for whatever you want. I saw Valve were demonstrating it using an animated LED display.

[@ahmedshaikh7662]

that would be amazing. Like a thing that extends out and is pointed towards the user's body and has full body tracking. Immersion to the next level

[@keys299]

John Zimmerman yeah but it would have to be super light weight or else it could create neck pain.

[@rhadiem]

If you have the V1 tracking system you can get the Vive trackers to track your legs/feet/torso.

[@Blamkrotch]

Frunk = attachment for robo- fleshlight for immersive vr porn

[@DonicMusik]

I can't wait to play No Man's Sky VR with the Index and Index controllers. This will be soooo sick.

[@Captain_Coleslaw]

Well, i guess im buying a pair... the framerate sounds SICK!

[@ATestamentToTech]

A pair of what? Its not socks

[@jetison333]

@@ATestamentToTech yet we still call pants a pair. Language is weird.

[@Globespy]

Really appreciate your candid and honest review - around the 11 minute mark that's enough reason for me to feel good about holding my cash for proper next gen VR. I'm guessing they were under an NDA, but sometimes the detail is in what's not said :) Eye tracked foveated rendering can't come soon enough - that's when we really leap forward.

[@Kunzopolis]

This was a great review, just bought the Index a few days ago for NMS:VR (Beyond) -- Thanks!

[@TheGamingCrypt]

How long did it take to ship and arrive ?

[@sqlevolicious]

@@TheGamingCrypt Takes up to 4 business days depending on how far away you live from chicago (Valve shipping center).

[@jecabreradc]

The video missed a visual comparison with the HP reverb. Which one will display my Sim Racing software better or my Skyrim VR, etc.

[@sqlevolicious]

Reverb is dismissed becasue of all the issues it has, also, no sign of it ever releasing to consumers. Not really worth talking about anymore, too many red flags. I was really looking forward to it too.

[@davidburns1721]

It isn't even a question if you look at both logically: HP Reverb wins on clarity alone, Index wins in every other aspect and gives you more FOV. If you are serious about sim racing, the FOV is the winner over absolute clarity. Plus the fact you mention Skyrim means you do roomscale VR, the Reverb isn't even a consideration with it's hampering WMR tracking :(

[@Tom--Ace]

Reverb kills it. I have an Odyssey+ and Pimax 5k+, pimax went back in the box, distortion was awful, FOV was just not worth it, resolution was still too low, SDE was much worse than od+. In my opinion SDE and then resolution are king. The odyssey+ was the best headset ive tried and great on SDE, but it and the pimax 5k+ still lacked resolution. The reverb will have SDE near the Od+ while having a much better resolution. The Index will have neither the FOV of the pimax or resolution of the reverb or SDE of the Od+. It is definitely not my first choice

[@davidburns1721]

@@Tom--Ace Reverb kill it (VR) - fixed that for you :P Seriously though, I get the sharpness but the Reverb has far too many issues/downsides that pull away from it's fantastic 2k per eye res. :(

[@saihtoohannaing5291]

I would much rather pay 1000 $ for this than the new Apple stand

[@MrVGamer]

lol

[@The_Creative_Workshop]

Wow the optics is a bit of a surprise, sounds like this headset is the best of the last gen 1 sets. Overall, it looks like a lovely bit of kit.

[@blise518B]

What do you thing separates the „generations“.

[@The_Creative_Workshop]

@@blise518B good question, I think generations have normally been separated by a leap in visual quality and new features not seen previously. This seems to have all the same stuff as previous but done very well. Basically it doesn't sound like it breaks new ground.

[@blise518B]

Creative Workshop yea its a step by step evolution. Just a bit better here and there. They can only increase resolution and refresh rate if the hardware supports it. As long as there is no sudden increase in hardware performance there probably won’t be a great leap in VR technology.

[@The_Creative_Workshop]

@@blise518B I think the grips seems the biggest step without actually seeing the displays yet

[@Tommy-pv1vh]

2:16 rgb stripes? like the phosfer lines on a trinatron cathode ray tube?

[@sqlevolicious]

No, not even remotely relatable.

[@SaturnsEscape]

A quick note about the audio. Part of the reason it sounds better on Index is because the sound is now properly engaging your entire ear. The outer ear actually plays a significant role in our perception of sounds. When using traditional over-ear headphones like the OG Rift or ear buds, you're actually cutting off that less crucial, but still important part of your aural perception system.