Vanessa and Vanny's True Identity SOLVED!

[@Doomsgate]

I thought everyone mostly agreed that Vanny an Vanessa are the same person. It’s surprising that people thought they were different people

[@RyeToast]

Honestly looking at the comment section here alone you can see how split the community is. I hope the dlc can sort it out

[@kitcoyyoy]

Well I mean... the vip ending

[@kitcoyyoy]

Don't get me wrong I agree they're the same person but I can see why people think they're separate

[@Mentleif]

My takeaway from this video is that it’s very close. One point’s difference. I’d point out that the Fire Escape ending having Freddy Recognize Vanny due to having “New Eyes” sort of hurts your point about how Illusion Disks only work on people. I also think Freddy’s line about Vanny is a Red Herring. I’m in the camp that believes they’re separate, but, again, you’ve shown that both sides are balanced enough that literally either could wind up being true. I’m hoping it is clarified later.

[@RyeToast]

Me too. Like both theories are valid so at this point it just comes down to personal preference

[@LadyBernkastel92]

My biggest issue with 46 being Vanny is that it makes me very confused about the numbering scheme. If Vanessa is 71, wouldn't that mean 46 has been going to these therapy sessions longer? I would imagine if it was the company distinguishing between alters they would be 71-a and 71-b, or just 71 and 72. Great vid btw, Been working through your fnaf vids and you got some good stuff here.

[@RyeToast]

Thank you! And yeah, frankly I don't have a good explanation for the drastically different number. But I have even less good explanations for another person to be the patient so I'm betting on the former and waiting for more evidence in maybe the dlc

[@Trickpants]

​@@RyeToast What's the consensus of the possibility that 46 is Vanessa's child? I'm not really in the community so I don't know what has been discussed and what hasn't, I'm just enjoying your videos atm. Of what I can read in the 46-logs, there's nothing to indicate that they're an adult (other than this line: "You had great parents, a great childhood", but it doesn't disprove that they're still young), and while their skills with hacking would be abnormal, one of the therapists does say she considers them "a phenomenon" (like a prodigy). It'd make for a really creepy child, to be fair. I also at first thought maybe the girl in the Ruins DLC promo was Vanessa's daughter (solely because of the hair-color, which is really nothing to go on) and thought it could be a cool story that she is going looking for her mom.

[@Seriously_Unserious]

I think Vanessa having a last name starting with A is too convenient to be a mere co-incidence. I think she is an Afton, but not the daughter of William Afton. The timeline just does not work for that as Afton got Springlocked in the 80s and SB takes place sometime between 2035 and 2038, based on the date on a photo in the Kitchen security office (2035) that seems to be commemorating the opening of the Pizzaplex, and allowing for it having been open for at least a few months to a few years by the time the events of SB take place. Even though he had weird things happen to cause him to continue to exist as William Afton, from that Springlock incident onward, he's no longer capable of reproduction. His body is dead and therefore sterile. Given that SB takes place in 2035 at the earliest, any daughter he'd have had in addition to Elizabeth from before he became sterile, would have to be in her 50s at least. Vanessa's nowhere near that age. She looks like she's in her late 20s to early 30s, so definitely born after 2000, but not by much, probably somewhere between 2000 and 2010. I'd also rule out Michael, for similar reasons to William, he's also sterile as of the events of SL. However, just because William and Michael are out, does not mean she can't be an Afton. She could be from a line tracing back to an unnamed and unmentioned brother of William, or cousin or other relative that still shares the Afton name. Being an Afton, perhaps put the top management of FE into pushing her onto a collision course with William, her uncle, 2nd/3rd cousin or whatever their relation is.

[@orangeinkius7257]

I think maybe it's possible Michael had a family before going to rescue his sister and van could be his daughter, or given her age and the timeline more likely grand daughter, he sounded like he was in his 20s or 30s in the SL speech so it's possible although unlikely

[@Seriously_Unserious]

@@orangeinkius7257 It's also possible he had a daughter and never knew it, a relationship that didn't work out - a post break up oopsie and the line that leads to Vanessa is born, but that wouldn't result in Vanessa having the Afton last name though, as she would take her mother's family name in that case. which would mean the "A" as her last initial would have to refer to any other last name that starts with that letter that's not Afton. As for relationship, Vanessa would definitely have had to be a granddaughter. or she'd have to be in her 40s at least and she's nowhere near a middle aged woman. In Help Wanted, I got the impression that was or nearly so, her first job out of college, which would put her in early to mid 20s most likely, and that would line up with her being late 20s to early 30s for SB, which would line of with her physical appearance in SB.

[@Quackervoltz]

@@orangeinkius7257 That's my headcanon

[@orangeinkius7257]

@@Seriously_Unserious also I guess that would mean Micheal would have to have a son who is vanessa's father for the afton family name to stay intact as Michael having a daughter instead would make it too likely for her to take her husband's name In the therapy tapes we hear vanessa's dad is named bill, which a lot of people have pointed out is short for william, so I suppose if this theory is right mike named his son after his late or missing father which is kind of wholesome but based on the therapy tapes and the custody battle it seems bill afton is nearly as much of a peice of shit as his grandfather

[@Seriously_Unserious]

@@orangeinkius7257 There's another line in there where a therapist reveals that Vanessa's talk of family problems is revealed to be false and she actually had a stable family with none of the problems Mike and his siblings had.

[@PizzaMineKing]

It's been a while since this was posted, but the daughter / lie thing can be explained by going on a bit of a stretch: William may not originally have been the only soul in the VR program, his very obedient "I will make you proud, daddy" - daughter got scanned in aswell - they were in the same fire after all. I suggest the theory that william afton needed the whole of his soul / remnant / agony / mix of both to reclaim his body (burntrap), instead sending out someone else who has been in that fire and may have believably been scanned in with him to posess puppets - vanny in this theory wouldn't be posessed by william afton but by elisabeth afton - the lie being elisabeth venting about her own past instead of the past of the body she's inhabiting. Would also explain why CBs eyes aren't lit in the blob.

[@quilltedtulip]

As someone with DiD (dissociative identity disorder formerly known as MPD)- I hate to say it- and I dont condone it- but I would not be surprised if the canon has Vanny as Vanessa's alter (or how most media wrongfully puts it other personality) due to the fact its hitting all the same sort of check marks of media (especially horror) making the main antagonist/villain have DiD with one alter wanting to help and another wanting to harm the protagonist. It's disappointing that media creators in the horror genre keep using this fear mongering misconception and stereotype of a actual mental disorder that- is in no way harmful to anyone but those who have it (depending on the alters and their roles etc.) I really wish this wasn't the route that Steal Wool or Scott seem to be going with these characters, because we really need more positive rep thats not a horror genre killer/monster, especially since I've ADORED this series since a pre-teen.

[@RyeToast]

That's really interesting, and disappointing. I agree that I hope it isn't that, but I'm fearful. Fingers crossed they just say "she's just brainwashed" and wave it away. The moment media tries to tie something like that to real, actual medical issues it harms the community. For what it's worth, I can guarantee you I won't be making that comparison.

[@quilltedtulip]

@@RyeToast I really appreciate that man! We need more people like you who will stand up to that sort of stuff when it comes to mental health rep! Sadly I've seen other people make those sorts of connections before so I really hope Vanny theories wont go down that route (unless they spin it to good rep and actually understand the disability which I hope someday will happen). I hope the DLC leans more into a supernatural brainwash type thing, maybe the virus itself latched onto her in a weird form of possession so it doesn't link to anything too close to a real world mental disorder.

[@--CHARLIE--]

I'm thinking its one of those things where its explained as not a mental disorder, but either a supernatural or sci-fi (consciousness downloading and stuff), type thing. After all, if glitchtrap is responsible for this starting, it would make more sense that his presence corrupted her mind and created a separate consciousness that's kind of a weird mix of glitchtrap and Vanessa or something like that. Like people don't get possesed by sentient computer viruses in real life, so I'd think this would be entirely a consequence of that happening (which would likely be mind rending considering what glitchtrap is), as opposed to "That but also she actually just has DID!" Like, why would glitchtrap even play a role in that? He clearly does here right? And while beating a supernatural arcade game to cure somone of supernatural video game possession is weird, it makes more sense than if doing that somehow removed pre-existing DID. Point is, while this uses the trope of a character having multiple minds in one body and being the antagonist (which as long as its made clear its not because of a mental condition or anything, I see no major issue with), its not like, split or anything. I hate that movie and I don't have DID, I can't imagine how you feel about it. I don't even respect it enough to capitalize it. But yeah, I don't think it'll be anything like that. Like I doubt DID will even be mentioned as anything other than a "just to be clear this isn't that. That's a very different thing". Though I doubt they'll even have that. Though maybe its be better if there was. Idk though. Its not my place to say really. Hope y'all are doing well btw.

[@tirididjdjwieidiw1138]

i don’t think they intended it to be a real life mental disorder but rather supernatural like all the other stuff in the franchise

[@tirididjdjwieidiw1138]

don’t you have to be 18 to be diagnosed btw? you said that you were a fan since your pre-teens and fnaf began in 2014.

[@purpleguy3613]

for this quality you deserve much more subs!

[@RyeToast]

Tysm!

[@toxic_shr00m]

I choose to believe the 1 person theory because not only does the game literally spell it out in big bold letters with Fredrick Fazbear's dialogue, but also because the 2 person theory is agonizingly boring.

[@RyeToast]

For real! Like, Freddy basically looks at the camera and says "These are the same person"

[@wyattbarnett3877]

@@RyeToast have you seen cut content videos in a game mode vanessa swaps to vanny

[@WhoKnowsIt00001]

@@RyeToast Just basically. He doesn't say that. He says it can't be a coincidence, but it can be, there's a high chance that they are separate characters (in my opinion).

[@hencoop8023]

I’m pretty sure the dream giest is supposed to represent the fnaf 4 box

[@RyeToast]

Ohhhh I could see that

[@Maximara]

The flaw with the quick change idea is that in the fire escape ending Vanny is wearing an actual costume. Vanessa looking down from the top of the building is whole other bunch of headaches.

[@RyeToast]

I think the idea of Vanessa looking down is it's her sad spirit looking onto what she's become. Although you raise a good point about the costume

[@Maximara]

@@RyeToast The thing is outside _one_ 8-bit game we have NEVER seen a "normal" ghost (and that may have been stylistic). Heck, in Frasbear Fright *all* the spirits appear in their consumes not as they were in life. Why would Vanessa be different? If anything per all the other lore her spirit should be in costume. Ergo that isn't a spirit at the top of the building in the fire ending.

[@Danimpish]

@@Maximara I assume the reason they have costumes is because they are possessing the animatronics at that time, in happiest day their spirits are free, the mask falls off and they fade away. When they're dismantled in the Springlock they are shown as ghosts with no costumes. Vanessa clearly isn't possessing anything therefore she wouldn't have the costume

[@Maximara]

@@Danimpish The problem is those ghosts are *still* in costume in Frasbear Frights which is set some *30 years* _after_ Afton got into his Springlock costume and died. Perhaps Henry didn't understand the difference between Remnant and Agony and thought the animatronics were still possessed. As Matpat has said FNAF gives you contradictory information all over the place.

[@GentleWruzzPuppet]

@@Maximara You could be pedantic and say that her security outfit is her costume cause she wasn't supposed to be a security guard because she didn't have the experience or requirements. Maybe she didn't even watch to be a security guard so she feels trapped because of glitchtrap. FNAF is weird and nothing makes sense, and I both love it and hate it. FAZGOOOOOO

[@bigfootbelievesstreaming1702]

I love your lore videos! I agree that Vanessa and Vanny are the same person. It just makes more sense! Crazy identical twins is lazy writing. Plus with the lore you’ve mentioned (I think it was you) on your timeline video about the souls that can like… exit peoples bodies?? Like with the kids and glithctrap and the son. The fire escape ending makes sense that it’s just her soul-and like glitchtrap and aftons son, her soul has latched onto the place she died in

[@BlindSol1232]

I have one thing about the illlusion disk though. If the illusion disk just affected humans, then why didn't Freddy clear up Gregory's assumption that "a bunny was there" and tell him, "I see no bunny. I only saw Vanessa. She is doing her usual patrols." and that would immediately explain that she is using a disk to make her look like the bunny to humans but normal to animatronics. I think the disk actually has a new program where it makes her invisible to animatronics while in her suit but humans are disoriented by the effects. Freddy also saw Vanny with his new eyes in the Rooftop ending and clearly saw her in the suit and not as Vanessa. I also wanted to touch on the Disco Twins part. What if in Most Wanted, GlitchTrap used the sister's voice to trick Vanessa to find the other tapes. This would caused her to be curious about what happened to her sister and dig in deeper. I'm still on #TeamDifferentPeople unless someone can disprove what me and my gf just discussed for an hour about these two plots and many others lol

[@gummygrenade]

No therapist uses multiple patient numbers for a patient with DID. It’s much simpler to keep them all in one file.

[@tomast7339]

first thing, this is a great video and it's nice to see a video that tries (and succeeds) to not be biased about this theory. Congrats :) I have my take about this: we know this game got many delays and rewrites so I think Vanessa's role in the game was changed several times during the development. it began with Vanessa being the main protagonist of the game. it is backed up with the teaser of "PROTECT" and the statue. Scott said that the statues revealed the gameplay of the game. we see Gregory inside Freddy which indeed happened in the game. but we also see Vanessa spying on Vanny. so I think that when the statues were made the idea was Vanessa not being named Vanessa and her gameplay was to spy on Vanny. it also backed up with the fact that for a long time it was Vanessa who appeared in merchendise. and not Gregory (aside from the statue). Vanessa was on the first SB poster, she was in the coloring book, she was on the calendar. and also the 3rd trailer show Vanessa as Gregory's ally. however when the theory about Vanny and the Secuirty Girl being the same person became popular, SteelWoold decided to change the story and adopt this theory. so it would make the story a lots more dramatic HOWEVR: it was too obvious. for real, we all knew it. so what is the surprise? where is the plot twist? so I think that eventually they decided to write SB storyline in a way that could work with two ways and only in the next game (or the ruins DLC) we will find out what story they decided to pick. However I have some more thoughts about this: 1. In the fire ending, I think there is no real evidence that this is her spirit for the simple reason she does not looks like a spirit. she does not transplant, not glowing and not gray. Every spirit in fnaf always was colored as gray. but here she looks like a normal humanbeing 2. The CD can be heard only in the room from the game **SISTER** location 3. The FF books focus a lots about conflict between siblings. so maybe this is whats happening with Vanessa and Vanny 4. now as for the Vanessa + Bunny = Vanny and the emails from SD. what if Vanessa's sister stole her identity to frame her for the murderes? in FF books the concept of stealing identity is very common. so for now I'm more biased towards the Twin Theory mainly because for me this is more interesting and not predictable. But I still think that SB was written so it can go with both ways and we need just to wait for Steelwool to decide what path they are going

[@orangeinkius7257]

with point number one I'll just put it out there that every ghost we've seen in fnaf has been in stylized 8-bit minigames we have no real idea what actual ghosts look like in this universe, and that ending was to deliberately confuse us so they're not throwing tear streaks on Vanessa's face

[@WhoKnowsIt00001]

I highly agree with you. All you wrote here were my first thoughts/ theory about this Vanessa is Vanny or their separate characters idea. For me it was too obvious at the very first moment. Also the number 4th one is exactly what I was theorising about.

[@annihilator3189]

I think vanny is vennessa who works in Freddy's.... But who we are seeing as venessa is her sister (has a different name) who took her sister's identity to confront her sister.... 1. She caught gregory and didn't kill him instead lock him up probably to protect him.... The monitor scene could not be pre-recorded (Because the whole game she was looking for gregory, so when did she did the recording) 2. In the fire ending all we see a venessa dead (because she has the same hair colour and style as venessa)... What if she is not... Just because she is blonde she is venessa? 3. In the fire ending they say it's her spirit looking down to it... Then why she is in the gaurd's uniform not in the vanny's uniform 4. In the good ending we assume venessa meet gregory near the exit... What if she is vanny (we didn't get a closer look) 5. If venessa is using sound disk to mask her presence why does having roxy's eye, freddy is able to see her.... And when he sees her Freddy calls her vanny not venessa ( he isn't shocked or given any hint that she is venessa, like why she is doing this) 6. In the princess mini game we play to rescue vanny... What if it symbolises that venessa is trying to free vanny 7. If Vanny is affected by glitchtrap virus and taken over by afton then why venessa is changing frequently... Sometimes she catches you as a night gaurd sometimes she is chasing you with bunny suit doesn't make sense The game heavily implies that vanny is vennessa... It's just like it wants us to believe that... Although it's not something important... venessa and vanny both have different voice actor...

[@orangeinkius7257]

this is my "little" crack pot theory, but I personally think tape girl is Patient 46, Vanessa's "virtual sister" (only metaphorically of course), and another even more devoted fallower of glitchtrap, one that runs a lot of the hacking and planning from the shadows while vanny has her rabbit boots on the ground, tape girl is sorta a "most valuable asset" of William's, almost a failsafe he doesn't want to risk On the subject of tape girl, I thought she was Vanessa at first too through being a the same gender in the same game, but the protagonist of help wanted is supposed to be Vanessa herself, it would be strange for her to be finding her own tapes, plus it's been pointed out how sus TG was being, initially she states glitchtrap can't be killed and she had to scatter the tapes, but then partway through she says "yeah you can totally kill him, just get 99% of the way to being possessed and then shoot him, trust me" and how would she even know that could work, assuming she's truthing if she tried it there would be no glitchtrap, and if she tried it and failed she wouldn't leave the tapes, it's almost like she's already been infected for a while and is trying to convert another to the furry murder cause. also I dont mean to go all character analysis on her but tape girl does seem rather toneless, emotionless, pure logic and detached in her titular recordings, a lot like Vanessa in the later retro CDs, this could just be what the final stages of glitchtrap infecting you could look like And whoever 46 is tape girl or not it seems they were fallowing ness around even going to the same therapists as her, in my mind to make absolutely sure she didn't let on too much about the operation, and while it could be acting Vanessa is surprised when her normal therapist is missing so between the two it seems more likely 46 is silting the throat of anyone that gets closer than arm lengths of their partner's mind Patient 46 is also stated to be sending encrypted messages to 71 that were manipulative and had a lot of her personal information, and 46 was even shown to be at the pizzaplex near a rabbit silhouette, so it seems if I'm right TG is sort of the brains of the operation with Vanny as a subordinate or partner and tape girl has to keep her in line due to vanny's "reluctant fallower" title and it's accuracy, tape girl might even be a high ranking fazbear employee that recommended Vanessa in the first place, we don't really know where she ended up Honestly I'm not even 100% sure that Vanessa and vanny are separate alters, personally I don't see much of any evidence for it, there's the emails where ness is vying for control but that could just be glitchtrap and her reluctance to fallow his commands, (hell I don't even know if glitchtrap is actually mind controlling her ever he could litterally just be a voice in her head and nothing more, back on topic,) vanny could litterally just be acting as a security guard to get close to William, it could all be a façade there's in my eyes there is next to nothing to suggest vanny and Vanessa are entirely separate people even just simply in the sense of the mind. Lastly the whole lost and found sequence was hard for me to explain, I don't know maybe Afton told her only to kill people in the fursuit as like a ritual and she needed a moment to change, but Identity disorder or not I doubt vanny would want to show up in any public circumstance besides murder and preparing for it let alone in front of a therapist who's job it is to recognize mental problems and bad signs like being a murderer so even if she is a separate alter I doubt she's 46

[@orangeinkius7257]

@HorrorLover I guess technically, ironically I got the idea from John Fuhnaff himself when he briefly mentioned that idea on the big fnaf youtuber livestream matpat did a while back it perked my ears up, he just happened to come back to that idea with the Charlie bot theory. Now I personally don't agree with all of his latest theory trilogy, it's a good theory but I'm hesitant to accept it as headcanonized fact. in my world and in this comment tape girl/46 is just a new character and not a Charlie bot, just a random lady that worked on the silver parasol crew, but 46 and tape girl have a lot of similarities I and fuhnaff just used the same evidence to come to different conclusions

[@sutarikun]

It's an interesting breakdown but I still like my theory about Vanny being an attempt to be a robot Vanessa "clone" which jibes well with the Gregbot theory and the possibility of having robotic humans. The gist is that Vanny was part of a project to create a better body for Glitchtrap and wasn't fully completed or capable yet, thus not having blood anywhere when she plunged from the roof and Vanessa being confused, in her uniform, on the roof.

[@RyeToast]

You know, I think a robotic clone of Vanessa is a lot more plausible than a secret twin sister. My only issue with that would be when would the clone have been made? And by who? I know you mentioned the project by glitchtrap but, it begs the question. Where and when could they have done that between help wanted and security breach?

[@aishisufuyu5961]

A character making an incorrect inference about something that's seemingly obvious isn't bad writing. Freddy isn't omniscient. I love that you brought up the sisters. I somehow missed out on their existence for a whole year... I'd also like to point out you missed some things, like the therapists treating Vanessa like a mature adult, while treating the other patient as if they were a child both mentally and physically. This was really well made. I love when people bring up stuff that's easy to miss since not many people discuss them.

[@RyeToast]

Thank you so much! Apparently someone else brought up the fact that the dreamgeist is also possibly a reference to the box, maybe even more so. Cuz it's covered in locks and in its head has several references to theories of the people had for what's in the box. Regardless you raise up good points

[@SorowFame]

If he’s wrong it’s an unnecessary detail that doesn’t add anything, it says nothing about Freddy’s character and because he’s wrong it adds nothing to the story. Yeah sure in real life people are wrong sometimes but in a piece of fiction it’s just wasted effort.

[@supermstash29]

I think the fire escape ending removes illusion disks because her mask was physically pulled off but if they are two people in that ending then Vanessa has no self preservation skills with a perfectly good fire escape in front of her When it comes to animatronics not seeing her it could be visual interference coming from her that hinders their ability to see her aside from Roxanne and Freddy with her eyes because it’s more advanced tech

[@RyeToast]

The mask disproving the illusion disc is really fair. I didn't think about that. But also, right?? Like why would Vanessa just be chilling on the roof of a BURNING BUILDING?! My issue is I just don't know what would cause that visual disturbance without an illusion disc. Maybe it's used to avoid the robots but the suit itself is real

[@supermstash29]

@@RyeToast given Freddy explaining the animatronics security protocols to not be aggressive might explain the visual interference as a now unnecessary precaution on Vannys part (outside of Freddy) at least until it became possible to work around that security for the other animatronics. But the suit is likely just an Afton influence to cement to him his loyal followers Her hot swap makes it painful though if it wasn’t prerecorded but it does seem awfully “stock” to be real-time

[@syweb2]

2:00 I'm pretty sure patient 46 is someone else entirely - possibly Gregory, if Gregbot is to be believed, but most likely someone else. I'm under the belief that 46 is a separate individual, as indicated by being too small for the chair they sit in and not knowing words that Vanessa and Vanny logically should, given the way these two patients are treated by the therapists. 8:30 I'm pretty sure it's a reference to FNaF 4's locked box, like all of the things inside its transparent head. Its name even makes reference to Dream Theory. Sorry, but any similarities it has to the Blob are entirely superficial. The Blob doesn't even have _hands,_ save for the tiny endo ones at the bottom. This point is a _massive_ stretch. 10:35 The "stuffed" ending is the in-universe intended ending, so it doesn't tie into anyone in particular. I feel like a lot of this part was just stuffing in order to add points to the 2 people camp. Honestly, I think the execution of this video concept is flawed. You're counting individual points as all having equal importance, despite them all having different levels of prominence and "weight", so to speak. It's _very_ well-made, though, you've got some sick editing skills.

[@TangleHamain]

No its Vanny. It HAS to be Vanny. It meks 0 sense for it to be Gregory.

[@soluna4784]

@@TangleHamain there isn't even anything indicating that Patient 46 HAS to be a KNOWN character. there's more than two options here. "not Gregory" isn't the same as "definitely Vanny"

[@TangleHamain]

@@soluna4784 Lmao yeah but how the fuck we were supposed to know that they were making a DLC for Security Breach which could answer the question of who is Patient 46? Also if its never revealed who it is or its a random character.. it would be dumb, seriously. Like wow, this character seems very important cus we are getting some kind of background story for them- and so it is just "a character we have and maybe will never see-" then this would be the dumbest thing that this franchise offered. Legit.

[@soluna4784]

@@TangleHamain within the already established swathes of characters in this franchise there's more options. There's still more than two options.

[@TangleHamain]

@@soluna4784 No theres not actually lmao

[@Imaroo]

This is a great summary of the evidence and its implications. Good job. I'm leaning towards 2 people personally but that's because I theorise that she was originally 1 person but Steel Wool changed this late in development. A lot of this is conjecture but going back to old game trailers suggests a very different game plot at some point (I know Matpat covered this idea in his theories). That one with the unused shot of Vanessa and Gregory in the lift and the threatening voice doesn't correlate at all with what we see in SB. Additionally, later game trailers post delays featured substantially less plot elements/dialogue which as a marketing person rang alarm bells even at the time. It felt like the game might be in a state of flux because they weren't presenting many more lore elements/clues to build upon. Even the cartoon teasers turned out to hold more clues for the coded message in the SL room than teasers/lore for the game pre-release. I think people got too close to the original plot/answer or there were concerns about negative mental health representation (since the split personality/virus idea has strong echos of DID/MPD - maybe an exec came in and were worried it'd be offensive/age inappropriate?) and they changed it. One thing I found interesting to learn is that many of the Special Delivery emails were never actually released in game. They were only leaked from early data mines, which suggests the evidence in them might have been scrapped. People have done comparisons between SD email details and the in-game messages and many details have been changed/clash (like Luis works for different departments - SD in IT, SB in marketing). There's a great thread on the topic by u/boollye on Reddit. This makes the clashing lore in SB make way more sense to me as thematic elements (like sun and moon animatronics echoing duality, a virus infecting the systems/potentially people) still hint to a one person conclusion while the game goes out of its way to blatantly throw out evidence to the contrary pretty much only in the endings/cds. To me, it feels like a team having to pivot a carefully crafted story (perhaps where Vanny was an active threat or her malicious intent was clearer - she carried a knife in early promo posters and there's no hint of that ingame) around a fundamental lore redirection. This could explain why she's barely in the game and plays little active role in the plot. Half of her character was removed and plot remolded to create patient 46, making Vanessa's role in the plot/relationship to Vanny far less clear. I'm not sure who/what Vanny actually is though. One out there theory that is unrelated: Could it be that Vanny is actually an animatronic? Her eyes glow, her voice has a sort of disrupted static-y sound to it (similar to Chica) and she almost robotically repeats "Are you having fun yet?" over and over. I dont know how that fits into the lore (does that mean Vanessa is an animatronic or clone??? Is that why she's so shocked on the roof) but when considered in isolation it is really odd. Vanny does not act like a murderous human or human-like at all. Thats always struck me as odd. And this is a series that has definitely established that humans can look like robots and vice versa, so I think anything is possible. (I spent over an hour typing this oop)

[@MoonSoulez]

Here's the thing about the fire exit ending: almost the whole series we see souls as white spirit with tears or dead body

[@RyeToast]

True, but at the same time those spirits were like, 6 pixels. So maybe they had to use shorthand to make it clear they were ghosts, and now they don't? Why else would Vanessa just be chilling on fire

[@MoonSoulez]

@@RyeToast true it's just kinda confusing to think that Scott would just change this part that have always been a lore but for soul's or someone who died that's all

[@sierra3052]

Not really. You have Golden Freddy in 2 who is neither, every ghost in the fourth closet book, vengeful spirit in ultimate custom night, Andrew in fazbear frights.

[@MoonSoulez]

@@sierra3052 huh somehow forgot about those

[@surpreemleadernoot]

My brain explodes when thinking of this theory because I can say that before yes Vanessa was 100% not Vanny but after the game released it felt like it was saying yes they are the same on one side and on the other it was saying no we are separate

[@RyeToast]

I think the answer changed several times during development and it shows

[@SHADOWEMPERORB127]

The VR sisters are highscore toy Chica from Fnaf AR because some of the enemies in fury’s rage are fnaf skins and highscore toy Chica has an attack mode where she is red instead of her normal blue

[@k1ttkw1snky69]

Fury's Rage had two vr sisters who reminded me of Vanessa in FnaF HW. so I do hold the theory that one is Vanny, and the other is trying to stop her, basically the female Mike and William. and the fnaf special delivery thing could be just vanny or the evil sister, but the potential other sister doesn't have to take her place, so the emails don't prove or disprove anything. it's still up the air.

[@doomguy3539]

I think Candy Cadettes story more refers to the fire of FNAF 6 more than Ennard as he is only made of four animatronics.Unless Bon-Bon is an animatronic or Yendo is somehow in their.

[@AwkCrafty]

I love this vid. Nothing beats conflicted theories.

[@RyeToast]

Thank you!!

[@princessmarlena1359]

If not sisters, then Vanny is an animatronic endoskeleton in a fur suit, with human looking hands (five digits) and human face/head. Vanessa customized an animatronic via Glitchtrap/Afton’s guidance after he infected her mind via that VR testing. Vanessa allows Vanny to wear her uniform to cover her shift, and her civilian clothes to attend therapy sessions on her behalf. The fursuit is so any potential victims who escape can’t properly identify her as a witness. Vanny is armed with an EMP to confound cameras, S.T.A.F.F. bots, and animatronics as well as a neural disrupter to cause humans to get all wonky when Vanny is near them (such as Gregory).

[@Silver-xj1pp]

You’re so goated for the Billy Hatcher song

[@RyeToast]

Thank you, But BILLY HATCHER MUSIC IS SO GOOD. (so is most sega music tho) And your so goated for goddamn noticing!

[@thecriticalone1783]

What if the vr endings are both just Vanessa? We could be playing with the Vanessa who doesn't get locked away entirely. So it's a split personality instead of glitch trap just possessing her.

[@jjrobotnik]

The other vr sister could be tape girl they aren't Sisters but it could be metaphorical

[@RyeToast]

I could see that, but I personally believe tape girl IS vanessa.

[@battensag7168]

What if Vanny was just a good person? Like you said that she would change personality, meaning that they're different people, but couldn't she change personalities, and have a sister too? also in the good Vanny ending, that could just be Vanny we sit on the hill with, who lets us out of the building. remember Vanessa is mean to us the whole time, yet the woman we see in that ending seems a lot different. Also she's not wearing her uniform in that scene either. I feel like maybe she got the name "Vanny" from her sister, maybe to purposely shift the blame if she ever got caught.

[@MorningDusk7734]

Could the DLC be from the mind of a young Vanessa trapped in a mindscape version of the Pizzaplex by Vanny trying to save Gregory?

[@littlegoat713]

I just see the two as headmates, but Vanny is actually Glitchtrap. Since the DLC Ruin is going off of the (canon) Burntrap ending, Vanny/Vanessa are still alive, and likely still kicking... confronted Gregory and Freddy before leaving, and trapped Gregory in a now rundown Pizzaplex.

[@TheAltrrdOne]

Louis : loo-ee Luis: loo-iss

[@RyeToast]

Honestly very helpful thank you

[@TheAltrrdOne]

@@RyeToast that’s how it usually is but it also depends on where it’s coming from both time-wise and country-wise

[@laotasurfs1110]

I'm so tempted to put out a theory about Vanny, but it draws from the books so everyone will hate it.

[@RyeToast]

Do it anyway! I know when I read the books I'll be using them a lot

[@Irish_Enderman]

Vanny and Vanessa have different builds, they look like 2 people to me, though this falls apart if illusion disks are really the way she's doing it

[@mrfacebeard5005]

I don’t think that Vanny uses a illusion disk… In two endings we see her get her mask removed witch wouldn’t be possible if she was using one + if the animatronics weren’t affected by the illusion disk then they would see Vanessa but it seems like they see nothing.

[@RyeToast]

Fair point honestly, I'm just wondering then why they can't see her without Roxy's "special eyes"

[@goatcat2]

I love your lore videos!!

[@spiderslayer3640]

What if the illusion disk is how GlitchTrap is controlling Vanessa? Just like how the Joker used the microchip he implanted into Tim Drake’s neck to control him in the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker movie! In the movie, when the chip takes over Tim, his appearance changes into that of the Joker, so what if the same thing happens with Vanessa?

[@GippyHappy]

I actually believe they're sperate, not because I want to, but because I think Freddy straight up spelling it out for you and having it be a total red herring is a very FNaF move. I don't see why'd they'd add so many conflicting details if not for the express purpose of confusing the audience. Which makes me think the only correct answer is the one that makes the least sense. A reverse Occam's razor. Occam's Duct Tape, if you will.

[@nobiazcustomsinc5030]

vanny is def using an illusion disc. Its said about certain high pitched frequencies that children can hear them, which explains why greg can hear them while others cant

[@andysmith5806]

I lost track of what you were talking about and just started jamming to the spyro music

[@canallinkstart4056]

I know they are the same person, but another thing that makes me confused about that is the fact that in the middle of the game its possible to be chased by both Vanessa and Vanny.

[@RyeToast]

I guess it depends on if that's intended or a gameplay glitch

[@grimmsoul3096]

5:07 i think illusion disks give invis to the target from robots, so a camera see's a empty room with one person, that person is getting jumped by somethingtrap

[@tcxtristan9152]

Idk but it think vanny is a robot? Cuz in the books there is robots that look like humans and I think in the DVDs in security breach said that it sounded like 46 was talking as if they was reading something (like vanessa story). vanny could be a robot build by using glamrock Bonnie's remains and controlled by William? This is just something I thought about so just keep that idea at the back of your brain

[@Samson1]

What about the theory that Gregory is an android? The fact that Gregory specifically sees electrical interference can't be a coincidence.

[@RyeToast]

Ah I got no clue tbh. I don't like it so I've chalked it up to an artistic interpretation of a migraine when she's near. Possibly from some sort of emp or illusion disc she uses to avoid robotic detection

[@Samson1]

@@RyeToast 🤔

[@yourlocalchickennugget9845]

you know what i realized? vanny kind of sounds like the therapist but if they were trying to cover up their voice

[@brandongriffin2341]

Everyone but Roxy can see Vanny. With Roxy’s special eyes she can see through walls ppl objects and other robots. That’s why when you give Freddy Roxy eyes he can see Vanny.

[@skinwalker_hangdog]

Luis is a hispanic name that would be pronounced 'Loow-eeys'

[@grimmsoul3096]

1:40 also vanny would be a main antagonist and would NOT be out in the open, glitchtrap knows enough about remnant to revive himself so he is CLEARLY wayyy too smart to have Vanny just run around in the open without everyone seeing this ending up dead (gregory was meant to die from Vanny's hands)

[@fictions_in_motion_07]

Would have been interesting if Vanny was actually a personality of Vanessa that was born from a traumatic event, almost like the game called MARTHA IS DEAD. A personality with a goal of it's own and such, with no involvement of Afton because he is dead already and all. Before anyone would come to me to bite my head off, please don't. I believe that Afton had done enough and his story came to an end in FNAF6 already as it should be. In other words, I think he is not needed anymore and I think it would be alright if there is a new villain to the franchise that could still give the horror feeling that we already got from the man himself. The lore is already messy enough and with the VR game and all (while the concept is still interesting and all) still story wise it's already too much.

[@supernew10doh64]

If the illusion discs only work on humans shouldn't that mean that Gregory can't see her but Freddy and the others can? Not to mention when we're inside of Freddy we are seeing things how pretty sees them right? So the first time we see vanny we're inside of Freddy proving that yes Freddy can see her.

[@MoonlitLillypop]

what if there's two Vannys and only one of them is Vanessa

[@RazzBeri1]

I am in the boat of Vanny and Vanessa being the same person, because I feel it would make for more interesting, and less confusing writing.

[@RyeToast]

Agreed

[@gordonramslay9955]

I can't believe that a huge point of evidence for the 2 people theory is a cutscene thats probably symbolic in a franchise that has countless cutscenes that are symbolic, mysterious and misleading.

[@davidactylus9990]

The VR Sister's do represent Vanny and Vanessa. Why, the Purple Ponytailed one is Vanny and the Red Short-Haired one is Vanessa, Saying they are 2 Different people!

[@Czar_Moss]

the only way they're 2 different ppl in my view, is if all tge connection saying they're the same (like the vanny venessa naming) is rly horrible lazy red herring

[@Deutsche.Kinder]

I literally thought that Vanny and Vanessa were twin sisters and that of Vanny ran away at like the age of 15...or something

[@RyeToast]

I mean it's possible but we don't have any evidence for it afaik

[@TheWorgenGamer]

It is pronounced luis (Loo ees, Loo is, or Loo ie) it depends on the origin of the name like a Spanish speaker or French or American for example. My brothers name is pronounced Loo Ees but spelt luis.

[@AshkyedoExtras]

Vanny could still just be someone manipulating Vannessa into doing all of it (before 14:39)we might never really know but it still is possible, now you got me thinking both ways-

[@Seraserastria]

Vanessa & Vanny being two different alters within the same body would make me so angry It's 2022, we really don't need more stories about people with different "personalities" being evil and dangerous It's stories like those that propagate the idea that actual people with disorders like DID are like these characters in media

[@nomus1172]

Well she is possessed by glitchtrap and in one of the endings when vanny is unmasked you see Vanessa on the burning pizzaplex . That is her soul still . It’s less is a mental disorder and more is paranormal brainwashing.

[@Seraserastria]

@@nomus1172 That is true, but that is lore. Not only that, but lore that isn't fully accepted by everyone. A casual fan of Security Breach and/or FNAF will not know this. At the moment, it's left up for interpretation. But it is unlikely that whatever follows Security Breach will spell it out for the audience, and in that case, if Vanessa & Vanny are different alters, the general public could very easily see it as the mental disorder.

[@nomus1172]

@@Seraserastria well fnaf lore has always been complicated remember miketrap . Some people are still debating if fnaf 4 was a dream or not because of the lore from the books and sister location

[@danriley3770]

Maybe the reason Vanessa doesn’t kill Gregory is because the pizzaplex is monitored by cameras and that glitch trap/vanny still need Vanessa to be in the pizza plex and I’m pretty sure if a security guard killed a child they would be fired. So they made Vanessa capture Gregory and have her change into the vanny suit and then kill him.

[@funtime_julia_arts2316]

I think that it’s still an tie because forgot the trailer of security breach in there you will hear “both of you burn” but it is possible that Vanessa and Vanny are the some but I don’t really know what to think

[@penmaster7863]

i honestly think both is the answer. like with scott and the team completely screwing up the story they kept switching between the idea of them being the same person or different and ended up getting stuck without a conclusion and when it comes to lore security breach should be completely ignored. this game isn't a fnaf game in all honesty and it shouldn't be treated like one at all

[@jackalanimatronics]

Please does anyone know what the song used in the intro is from?? I recognize it from a long time ago but can't remember, and Shazam isn't helping either.

[@RyeToast]

Good taste! It's billy hatcher kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5a5g4ClZtNrmJo

[@gummygrenade]

OR they’re still separate people despite the emails. “Ness” seems like a red herring. It could be an identical twin with a similar name like Janessa (it’s a real name and I know twins who are named this way). Or even that doesn’t need to be true, because it’s entirely possible that Vanny stole Vanessa’s identity and has a completely different name. Or Vanny is using Vanessa’s computer without Vanessa’s knowledge. All I’m saying is that this doesn’t prove anything, and there are reasonable doubts here. Also Security Breach basically retcons itself. I think the original intention was that they’d be the same person but I think that’s been changed.

[@TheGreenPig321]

I feel like the tapes are more important than we give them credit for. Other languages reveal that 46 is a female. We also know 46 boinked the therapists when they asked about the encrypted conversations. So I’m in the 2 person camp.

[@MissOnana]

I cannot take the two person theory seriously for one big reason that you actually didn't address here. Security clearance. Vanessa - aside from MAYBE much higher up company officials - has the highest security clearance in the pizzaplex. She can go anywhere and do anything because she is the head of security. We can and do see her in a ton of hard to get to places that we need to earn clearance to get into. Know who else we also see in places they couldn't get into without high security clearance? Vanny. Vanny can go to these places because she has the same security clearance as Vanessa because THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON.

[@angellara7040]

Literally every single other person is supposed to be dead by this point. Vanny could definitely just take a key card because it's not like the main character does this the whole game

[@TangleHamain]

*100% confident that Vanessa and Vanny = same person.* Think of like Dissociative Identity Disorder. Two alters trying to front and live their lives. Vanessa trying to save Gregory and Vanny trying to please Afton. Thats why Vanessa is a "reluctant follower". Its cause she HAS to follow Afton cus she shares a body with Vanny.

[@RavenZombieX]

I completely disagree on most points. Any point twords 2 personalities = points tword seperate people. Only physical points can count to differ the 2. Aside from the fact that many people say Vanessa's real mind is in princess quest... why would there be 2 minds in her body? Also, freddy not seeing Vanessa might mean Gregory is imagining the whole thing. The tapes are odd. Alot of people say the quiet one is a child, yet the doctor talks about the patients childhood...the cameras caught Vanessa talking to a rabbit. Could be a point tword 2 seperate bodies. The fact that their names are similar, is a red herring. The fact it's even said in game, is proof. IMO, every time we see a dual identity of 2 females, they are the same 2 spirits. Charlie/Elizabeth, Puppet/Baby, Ellanore/Ronelle, Princess/Shadow Princess, Vanessa/Vanny, VR sisters. Eventually, this leads to an idea of Henry/William, Freddy/Bonnie, CC/Mike, Theodore/Stanley is a male version of this. I believe that the 2 V's are where the spirits of Puppet and Baby went. Also... unrelated issue. I know the word that was garbled in the tape about the patients mom, it is 1word/3syllables.

[@legend-qr5qm]

All thing aside wasn't one of the plot points that illusion disk just don't show up when cameras which is why they were able to tell that it wasn't Charlie Just for those who do know I'm talking about what he was talking about being brought to the lost and found

[@channelnamehere8924]

I had a theory that if Vanessa was an Afton, she'd have to be Michael's daughter. I don't think this anymore, but it might make for an interesting AU

[@zombieboi9058]

Well I agree that's everything that's going on the video and also with the pros and cons but I feel like there's more that could be explained but it would be more complicated and a lot more time of getting there it's hard to explain and break down but most of the possibilities are very hard to find you know so it's a tongue twister to comprehend but oh well

[@lewishinsley1256]

I think that vanny and Vanessa are the same person because she has a spilt personality disorder and that’s why she is having therapy and what if glitchtrap found a way to pull that evil personality out when he merged with Vanessa like if glitchtrap is having vanny as his partner in crime and they both helped when they locked Vanessa in the arcade game princess quest and the security guard of Vanessa could be a robot trying to protect Gregory and Vanny is trying to stop Gregory for sabotaging her plans to free burntrap a.k.a William Afton

[@HeadRedShot]

Btw im pretty sure patient 46 is not vanny. Since the therapist talks to them as if theyre a child it would be really weird if they were talking to a grown woman like that. Also the fact that they probably arent allowed to record children's therapy sessions and that if they did separate the patient number for split personalities, why would they not understand that vanny was comunicating with vanessa and why would vanny need to kill the therapists for that?

[@HeadRedShot]

Feel like i didnt punctuate well but hope i got my point across

[@WhoKnowsIt00001]

What about the Funko staute? Both of them are represeted as separate characters.

[@RyeToast]

That's fair but I wouldn't really use Funko statues as evidence for canon stuff

[@ashleyjasper7603]

Where did Monty go after all the animatronics Tete fell and then they came back alive and who’s who is in Monte?

[@sunnecas]

Vanessa pronounced Luis right, it's a portuguese name and not the french name Louis

[@digit5465]

I just wanna say this and actually hope it isnt possible. What about faz goo? Yea this is way out there, but im just curious is there is anything that can disprove this

[@RyeToast]

God what actually is the faz goo? I've never read the books

[@digit5465]

@@RyeToast from what Ive heard, its goo that latches onto you and copies everything about you or it either takes over you. I cant remember which one and I cant remember which book it came from

[@CourtneyCha0s]

"Freddy Fazbear Go". It's not incorrect you see.

[@authorlacey]

So what I learned today is that the reason we never see Mrs. Afton is because she killed herself because she lost a custody battle to William... And if you believe the theory that her soul is in Ballora that means William had something ready for her soul to wander into... Bro no wonder Scott never brings up the wives. Who's to say Henry's constant struggle with suicide didn't cause his wife to leave or commit suicide herself...

[@autisticcat2288]

I believe that vanessa and vanny are two separate spirits but one body

[@RyeToast]

Kinda life Golden Freddy?

[@AcordHachi]

To me the fact that Vanessa and Vanny have different voice actors is a deal braker like in any piece of media, especially in this little franchise. We never see Vanny's eye color. No one should just accept anything until this gets adressed. Now, my interpretation is that 46 wants to wear a mask to be annonymous and steal Vanessa's identity given the fact that the "lies" are probably a copy paste of her life, not 46 who, according to official papers, had parents and her own records. Furthermore, we saw ghosts in FNAF, white with black eyes. Vanessa was CLEARLY not transparrent at all so Steelwool would have screwed up sooo badly if in the end the message is that she died.

[@haydenelliott-yv1pt]

My whiskey so strong that we can write the parson and guess what that is it did but Nessa

[@porcelainchips6061]

Is it possible that Vanny is Elizabeth, existing inside of Vanessa?

[@veronicalangford1278]

Wait... talk about game five nights at freddy's security breach fury's rage This looks like human both. Toy freddy + woman human = hybrid human. Or ( hybrids human woman robot) like that.

[@aaww1010]

I could say the pronunciation is like a tossup I pronounce it Lu is but I can see why people would pronounce it Lu (E)

[@themaincharacter4985]

I come from the future and yes, a Five Nights at Freddy's Security Breach DLC is coming, and it's called RUIN

[@blankblanky6858]

Nice!

[@RyeToast]

Thanks!

[@DougTheEditor]

The second and third same person points should have gone to two people

[@haydenelliott-yv1pt]

Sqbanny is the same person as an Elsa but in mine the troll control of the bullet trap Vine with kind of NASA

[@ThatBrdPirate]

Wouldn't this counteract the robot being able to see vannys suit to then that proves the illusion disc wrong

[@BasementDweller_]

I think they’re two separate people.

[@legend-qr5qm]

Is this guy forgetting illusion just don't work properly on video or camera it was an entire plot point for the reason why he was able to confirm that baby wasn't Charlie but then again I guess you can just pick or choose what you want right?

[@UnderworldsHeiress]

The pronounce on the tape is right because it is using the spanish or portuguese spelling: Luis, not the French one: Louis (that eats up some sounds, like you pronounced).

[@haydenelliott-yv1pt]

By whistle. Oh yeah one thing I know Nessa it's the same person trap

[@benszekely4336]

pulling out the single most controversial thing from the novels?

[@FosterBaba]

The vr sisters point is a stretch

[@RyeToast]

Fair

[@miraclewillow1]

Beep Block Skyway should *not* be the neuron activation is it lmao

[@ricardopgalvan]

With the accompanying Spanish last name (Cabrera), "Luis" would be pronounced as loo-ees.