Is Split Pushing Toxic For The Game? | League of Legends

[@deskartsu4551]

what if when one tower goes down, the rest get a boost in defense and attack. That way, turrets can still be taken, but it is difficult to melt through multiple in a row, and the buff can stack so if you down two towers right after another, it's gonna be pretty hard for them to take a 3rd. And the tower buffs can last for like 2-5 minutes based on game time.

[@VarsVerum]

Wait, that's actuually a cool idea. Just like how the tower plates reinforce the tier 1's upon being destroyed to make it hard to kill all 5 of them at once, they should do that to subsequent towers to prevent people from taking the entire base off one death timer.

[@illwill6080]

Stack the duration as well then reduce it by 1 min everytime a person on the towers team dies

[@raiden3013]

or after tower plating goes down turrets take reduced damage from a single champion so needing two or more champs to do normal damage to turrets. to make split pushing a worse choice

[@hehehe6511]

Give hullbreaker an activation skill that allow ad and only ad attack to bypass this buff with just for a limited time with a decent cooldown ( 60 - 90 sec) so ad splitpusher can still be threatening and finally give them back the egde over ap champ cuz its insane how a mage can kill turret just slightly slower than an adc without a single attack speed item

[@sebestein09]

trundle will still melt thru them

[@deusexcalibur6425]

If there is another episode- my hot take is that having to own a champion in order to use them in the Practice Tool is a massive barrier to entry for new players trying to understand how enemy champions work, and needs to be changed

[@chillchinna4164]

That’s just a fact. Can’t learn if they don’t let you.

[@TIMxisxHERE]

Good point, would make a lot of sense. I've taught League to quite a few people and this was pretty often a problem. Imagine trying to explain Rell or Aphelios to someone who doesn't actually have a chance to play the champion.

[@ciguatera780]

league should just adopt what dota does, allow you to view their entire HUD as they would (abilities, scaling, etc, all but their remaining cooldown.) that way if you die to something, you can immediately learn why it happened and adapt to it that same game

[@cripplingcaffeineaddiction3847]

This is valid. Smite and heroes allowed you to try every champ in their practice tool without owning them for free. Riot is greedy.

[@cripplingcaffeineaddiction3847]

​@@ciguatera780Dota has much more passion poured into it with smarter devs.

[@hoangnguyen0721]

Watching Vars talking so calmly while facing a ranged top laner is so funny I know its probably pre recorded gameplay with voiceovers but just seeing smthg so calm and so rage inducing at the same time is just funny

[@JaySimms-n7u]

tbf, he played it like complete garbage when that wave crashed and rengar was coming. If he just let the wave crash instead of fighting in a 20 minion wave he probably walks away with a full reset.

[@breeee1998]

A ranged toplaner with exhaust no less, I'd be fuming in real time tbh xD

[@bullettime1116]

​@breeee1998 as pantheon he could realistically have gone pots and just q spammed off cooldown, but yeah Lucian with exhaust is aids

[@dastrawberydum]

Vars going 0/3 in the first 7 minutes is definitely a top lane momen

[@p0oka261]

What buying dorans blade against a ranged top laner does to a mf

[@wolhaiksong2558]

Yeah it's really weird,he fights in a stacked wave,jumps on Lucian without stacking passive,tons of weird mistakes.

[@nysticalzs6312]

@@wolhaiksong2558 its almost as if hes diamond

[@VarsVerum]

@@nysticalzs6312 And yet I still cooked their entire team :)

[@yeowch419]

@@nysticalzs6312 and? mechanical skill doesnt matter as much after around high plat low emerald its just rly weird mistakes

[@marlowencna]

Autofill alternative : - Pick 2 preferred Roles - Pick 1 least like Role - Autofill exclude the least Role

[@pittaaaabread]

Ehh at that point just get rid of auto fill. I think the system would be best if you just pick your main role and then everyone ques up like it was in season 6 and so on. People might complain about que times but ultimately if the game is actually doing well and riot incentivizes people to actually play and learn roles like jungle and support the game would be at a much healthier spot.

[@eliserss]

or the ability to opt into auto fill. i know most would turn it off, but i'm sure it would lower the times and if they want to consent to auto fill they should have the ability to. it's like a preferred version of fill queue in a sense.

[@jonathanabgrall6075]

@@pittaaaabread Problem with that is that in high elo queues are just insanely long. I do think autofill should just encompass 2-3 roles though. There's no way to be equally good at all 5 roles all at once.

[@Xenodargon]

Put your roles in order from main to least played

[@olmanggg3]

They added that in sesson 6 of I remember correctly, and they had to remove it becuase no one played support.

[@seaver89]

I would say: split pushing to gain a gold advantage, force someone or multiple people to respond to a fed player so your team can have an advantage, or getting some free lane pressure before tping to a baron play, is all fine literally ending the game in less than 90 seconds and nuking turrets in like 5 seconds is not

[@dylan3746]

Mixed feelings regarding it. Some champs are kinda built to split push so it makes sense for them to demolish towers late game very fast. What I don't really get is the ap champs doing 30 to 50 percent turret hp with one auto. It's supposed to balance out that ad champs have atk spd or cdr (skills that reset auto etc) but what ends up is ap ranged champs are better tower takers than the adc. Maybe that's how the role is meant to be? Adc being the fight carry than the objective carry. But still some ad champs that can build both ap and attack speed sometimes abuse this LeBlanc, ahri top or maybe even the occasional shyvana split push monster comes to mind.

[@nathanielmohr9622]

@@dylan3746ADC champs are supposed to be objective carries too. Part of the idea of having an ADC in the first place is the objective pressure of having enough DPS to gun the objective down.

[@Gojiradogzillagodzilla]

@@nathanielmohr9622 Yea but ADCs are powercrept in that regard when other roles can pack just as much, if not MORE DPS. Just finished a game where my ADC died in a fight, but we killed 2 in return and deleted baron from existence cause i was playing Gwen and shes more than enough lol ADCs only put that kind of pressure in competitive, WHEN teams play around them, that is.

[@DIAX9]

ok it this comment would make sense if it didnt mention "fed player", my issue is actually destroying ur enemy toplaner (trynda, trundle, fiora) and they somehow still have the right to force u to sit in lane especially before plates go down, or in some cases even having the right to 1v1 u and being close to win, i just hate these cases it makes ur efforts to win lane so worthless.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

​@@Gojiradogzillagodzillaadc can exert that pressure when the adc player is not mechanically awful

[@dtstar331]

I personally don't mind split-pushing as long as it remains a niche strategy. Previous iterations of Hullbreaker have shown that if Riot promotes split-pushing too much, it becomes degenerate and unfun because the split-pusher ends up attracting too much pressure and they can't even be 1v1'd even under your own tower. Right now it's in a much healthier spot but I still have my doubts, especially after seeing what Hullbreaker Yone was doing right at the end of last season

[@pittaaaabread]

I would agree with you but my main issue with it is just that people even in higher elos dont know how to respond to it most of the time. I think you can look at examples of players abusing it and getting away with it in high elo because people dont know the proper amount of pressure to send to deal with it or they don't draft champs that can clear waves or have high map up time.

[@gamera5160]

I would agree. It's not as bad as it was, but I still feel like certain champs are way too effective at split pushing. I don't mind Yorrick or Trundle specializing at split pushing, but sometimes it's ridiculous that in the time it takes for them to appear in lane, they can destroy two towers before you can recall. I think towers need to be a bit tougher and I'd also like tower damage to get a boost because even during late game, I don't think any champ should be able to tank a chain cc and tank 20 shots under nexus turrets... I'm looking at you, K'sante...

[@dtstar331]

@@gamera5160 Ksante isn't even that tanky when he ults. It's more that towers feel like wet noodles atm

[@gamera5160]

@@dtstar331 Yeah, it’s more of a tower problem. I just wanted to complain about k’sante.

[@kyquocthangle4501]

@@dtstar331 funny how LoL players whinning too much, in Dota you are suppose to protect tower and nexus not the other way around lmao, hence the name Defense of the Ancients and LoL dev was in Dota team lol. Think about it you loose the game by letting your Nexus destroy so objective is to protect it, then why complain splitpushing champs, items and the strategy itself when you are suppose to protect lmao. I don't get it you playing games to win that should be your goal and having fun is just like side quests along the journey, not the other way around, just like how you work IRL to get money and promotion but not to look for relationship and friends?

[@braxtenmiller4447]

League balancing has had a similar sequence to this one: - riot buffs/nerfs/optimizes an item due to X class; - everyone tries to find a way to exploit it on Y, Z, etc class. :D

[@TheSaival]

5 zzrot portal meta :D

[@einjharrelraca]

@@TheSaival still more fun to play and interactive than whatever the fuck we got now. XD

[@wigmanmania259]

Split Pushing is suppossed to be in a trifecta alongside Grouping and Pick-off, where Split Pushing beats Gruoping, Grouping beats Pick-off, and Pick-off beats Split Pushing League just doesn't encourage full macro strategies for entire teams, so players in general just transition from Pick-off early game to constant Grouping in the mid to late game, where Split Pushing is the strongest

[@MrCrytown]

That doesn't make much sense. Splitting loses to decisive grouping every time. They take the dragon, then the baron, then your towers while you get a few towers. In many ways splitting beats pick comps because good splitpushers can win or go even in a 2v1 or 3v1 and thus they tilt the map for your other 4 even harder than its tilted against your own team (going 4v5 attempting to stop the grouped team).

[@Salmon_Toastie]

@@MrCrytownI disagree splitting forces a reaction and causes the pick offs to happen when in the average elo bronze-gold.

[@quinn.iamdefinitelycisgend2542]

​@@MrCrytown they have to respond once you are in their base. usually 2-3 people, giving your team the advantage. with how fast yorick can melt turrets there isnt time to do baron then turrets while he is at your base. someone has to respond immediately

[@Bl4ckDr4co]

@@MrCrytown That's only true if your team has 0 poke or CC. There's also the threat of stealing the objective, and most teams don't want to 50/50 a baron while getting poked as the enemy fiora is decimating your bot turrets. They can either commit hard to push you off the baron and then take it or they can back off and respond to the fiora. Sometimes tradeing a baron (while you're harassing them) for two towers is the right thing, and that's the point of split pushing. It's about opening the map and changing the game state.

[@chrig]

Absolutely nothing feels better then watching your nexus explode after 40 minutes to a shirtless angry man who right clicked really hard.

[@purupumpkin]

Soon is the worst bc he honestly just gets rewarded for being terrible he can go 02/12 and still be split pushing with decent effect bc his ult makes him fast and if he dies he has his passive and the more you throw into him the stronger he gets bc they usually just building heart steel so they get fatter and fatter, I get that dying on soon should be a decent and useable part of his kit but at what point are you just rewarding inting 🤣

[@LoriLovi]

tryndamere moment

[@deonm4759]

I feel like that the only reason an urf meta even exists is because of its frequency in the rotating mode. Once a year would be better, but riot seems to forget that they made like 8 different modes to choose from. It would be great if riot did what they did with poro king and doom bots where they showed up for the Christmas and Halloween seasons respectively. Riot please bring back the forgotten game modes especially ascension. The crystal scar has one of the best OSTs of league

[@Kisamefishfry]

I had a game recently where I lost at 17-2 to a 0/12 Sion mid. We had absolutely no answer, and it was just a scenario where the game was lost at champ select unless everyone went 6/0 in lane. I was Vi, and I physically could not kill the Sion before he took a tower. My problem with split push is that If you don't have a match for it, you just kind of can't do anything.

[@standarddude8391]

losing to sion as vi sounds like a joke. Losing to sion in general sounds like a joke. he's a bad champ

[@robertharp16]

​@@standarddude8391Doesn't really matter, at the end of the day he still has 2 knock ups and a passive that guarantees that he will just outscale nearly everyone because he stat checks you to death

[@standarddude8391]

@@robertharp16 If he is so broken, just play him and get to challenger easy?

[@Selthir]

0/12 mid y'all didnt have fiora or vayne back then?

[@Kisamefishfry]

@@Selthir Bruh this was like 3 weeks ago. But nope. We didn't have an answer.

[@ImPhen0n]

With the whole autofill vs. long queues debate, I feel like people don't account for dodging a whole lot. Any increase in queue time would be exponential if dodging were to remain unchanged. Both of these are factors for match quality and there is no definitive answer for this as someone will always complain. ... and sometimes it's the same person complaining for both sides.

[@Bl4ckDr4co]

A lot of dodges are due to autofill tho

[@ImPhen0n]

@@Bl4ckDr4co I'd say a majority is due to champion picks/bans rather than autofill, especially after the anonymity change to ranked lobbies.

[@dorians2138]

Not Vars typing top gap in all chat at the end 💀

[@alexcat6685]

22:36 dam I wasn't paying attention.

[@Yokai_Yuri]

Every youtuber that plays league is toxic

[@thepandrbr]

Ranged top laners deserve to take any trash talk no matter what

[@Claxis404]

I think an interesting way to address the problem of squishy towers would be to do one of two things: 1. Make tower plates actual PLATES, with the actual HEALTH being underneath. By this I mean that tier 1 turrets would essentially have 2 health bars, and at 14 minutes, everyone is on an even playing field when they fall off UNLESS someone essentially took the turret twice. This could make rift herald more important if it was given a slight buff to automatically destroy 3 plates, but not make it so ridiculous that whichever lane gets the rift dropped early is permanently behind because they can't farm safely. Keeping tier one turrets up longer won't massively extend game length, and the turrets will still have their resistances shred at 14 anyway, so people will still be able to role through turrets with a good push. 2. Increase the health and resistances of turrets based on their tier. Giving turrets (for example) 1k more health and 10 more resists for each tier you advance down a lane will make snowballing off turrets more difficult early, make early rift less effective if left alone, and increase the value of ADCs in siege over the course of the game. Given that there are two nexus turrets, it may be better to exclude these from this rule, but then, it could still be applied if the number of inhibs you have open reduces their resists or the number of nearby super minions applying an enhanced shred to their damage protection. What are others' thoughts?

[@damijanhug3428]

Hasnt it been like this in the past

[@SirCrusher]

I agree that the towers close to your base should be sturdier, it doesn't make sense to have weaker defenses where strong defenses are needed the most.

[@Claxis404]

@@damijanhug3428 not quite. If I'm remembering correctly, the turrets did more damage as you got closer to the nexus. A few years ago they were normalized so that all turrets had the same damage scaling that ramped up with each hit.

[@galopus2707]

Would be cool to have something like in DOTA where the team can make all turrets invicible for a few seconds every like 5 minutes.

[@LukeA471]

This please

[@trickjump19]

there was a summoner spell that did this, it was called fortify.

[@jeckbibi4706]

Who tell me why towers didn't shoot true damage instead of physical? That will finally stop thoose tanks chill under tower and oneshot my whole team

[@sleepyzzz7055]

Then no one will play tanks and only play poke champs.

[@1diotwithastick]

@@sleepyzzz7055 then towers should at least do mixed damage, instead of purely physical

[@phill9780]

The thing with autofill people don't get is that NO ONE is going choose auto fill. People think it will make the wait time only a couple minutes earlier, but in actuality, it'll be much longer than that. If there are 100 junglers in diamond elo, the max number of games that will be played in diamond is 50, because the only people that can play are the people who have those junglers on their team. EVERYONE else out of those games will have to wait until one of those junglers are out of game and queue up again. This is disregarding secondary role, but the same concept applies.

[@Blu_Moon_Owl]

The way I see split pushing is that it act as a timer for the enemy team to react in the right manner or get good plays in before the inevitable attack on the Nexus. It could also help someone get gold and do if behind and provide a Catch-22 scenario where do you stop the split push or try to get kills/objectives. However, if that is all you constantly do, then at times it could be too much pressure for anyone to really do anything in the game for both teams beside the one pushing

[@Xero-Space]

My issue with both autofill and role priority is that I legit just don't have a way to opt out. I'm not a great player, but it just feels bad in general when all I wanna do is play, say, top lane and I play 5 games and I only get to play top ONCE because I either get autofilled or put into the role I am FORCED to queue because trhe game demands more people play that role.

[@tntblaster137]

I think the first topic is easily answered by "You're playing a rouge-like, and you're speed running it; do you want 20 D teir items? Or 5 S teir items?" I'm not talking rarity, I'm talking community agreed D and S teir items

[@plektosgaming]

EVERYONE wants better matchmaking. Except the corporate suits who want more matches per hour as it results in slightly more profits. If they could reduce League to a 20 minute game, somehow, they would certainly do it. The items and abilities are constantly tweaked to shave off time and make the game more and more about damage and less about defense. A few years ago 30-40 minute games were the norm, now most are over in well under 30.

[@gvccihvcci]

⁠@@plektosgaming actually the average game time is about 30-35 minutes don’t just spitball facts you made up when there’s the info out there

[@plektosgaming]

@@gvccihvcci when I started it was significantly longer. There are multiple sites showing the data as well in that they are trying to make matches shorter and shorter. As such, the new meta of glass canon DPS and I just ignore your tank builds does that. Almost every champion can one-shot any other at this point with the right items, so basically if you get disabled/slowed/frozen/etc/etc in some way - you're done.

[@kingpowellii6004]

Make autofill an optional thing in settings. That way, the people who are willing to wait can wait. The people who just want to bust out as many games as possible can do that. At first, most people will opt out. If given enough time, it SHOULD balance out.

[@ValtronHK]

I love how every example Vars gave for champions that don't show up in proplay (except for Teemo) were actually meta in proplay at some point.

[@potterinhe11]

I have committed so hard to split-pushing that when I inevitably grow frustrated with my team, I don't even defend the base, which I know full well is toxic behavior.

[@LuaDotExe]

Split pushing should be a strategic decision, not a playstyle. For many characters, "should I split push?" is always just "yes."

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Yes because roaming, teamfighing, invading, etc are never legit built into the kit of the character...

[@LuaDotExe]

@@baptistecochennec5956 I didn't say being better at split pushing is bad; I said that it always being the correct option is bad. A Champion that is good at invading can't invade 24/7; they have other things to do. For a long time now, the right call for a lot of split pushers has always been to just shove your face into a lane until you win the game. It wasn't always this way.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

@@LuaDotExe if you just shove your face into lane without thinking about which lane to push, when to push, syncing, with your mate, knowing when to back off, looking for flank angle (yes even for splitpusher that work) and you still win the problem isn't the splitpusher being braindead but the ennemy team

[@WEQFRAA]

Disagree. Split pushing can be a character identity just like teamfighting can. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist

[@Chris-im5pq]

Afk split pushing should fortify enemy towers to prevent those laners from 1 tapping a tower if you die or attend other places of the map.

[@adafrost6276]

Dota 2 has had the split push problem solved for a long time with Glyph of Fortification. Being able to pop glyph gives that valuable time to respond and that's probably one of the possible answers to the problem in League as well.

[@cloudynguyen6527]

And also the fact that DOTA 2 towers have built in backdoor plus everyone have TP scroll to respond. Meanwhile in League, turrets are purposefully made to be weak by the time mid game kicks in.

[@Bl4ckDr4co]

@@cloudynguyen6527 Dota also has a MUCH MUCH bigger map than LoL. Seriously, the league map is tiny by comparison. Champs in DotA need blink daggers to even try to move from one side of the map to the other as fast as champs can in LoL.

[@Aliens1337]

@@Bl4ckDr4co Yeah, League is designed to be more fast paced than DotA. Average League game lasts for 25 - 35 min while average DotA 2 game lasts for 30 - 50 min.

[@DecemberGift]

Split pushing is much better in dota, it's an incredibly key point in the game. How it solved splitpushing, is everyone at almost anytime can just tp to the tower. Before a team fight or objective you can see a wave is being pushed, and a support can just tp to your t3 and push out the wave

[@kaworugaming8485]

I like rambling Vars

[@bundrenscrandad2028]

I damn sure don't agree that urf should only be once a year. It should be more often. It's literally the only way I enjoy league anymore.

[@wish-maker]

Definitely agree in regards to the urf commentary, back in the day urf was a national holiday and everyone hopped in voice to have a blast. Now its basically just pick whos the strongest in urf And like you said solo player the rest aka urf nunu.

[@danielray7965]

Split pushing is an important part of the game. It keeps things from automatically devolving into aram after 20 minutes, it encourages and rewards macro/map awareness (both for the split pusher and the other team), and it allows some champions at least to make useful contributions to the game even when behind. I think you could argue that split-pushing is OP during the hullbreaker meta where any top-laner could pick up the item and instantly become a menace in the sidelane, but nowadays most champions need to be significantly ahead to create that kind of pressure or have a kit that is specifically designed for it (Trundle, Yorick, Sion, Nasus, Fiora, etc.), and these champions are supposed to be a split-pushing threat; it's hard to argue that they shouldn't be good at doing something their kit is heavily geared to, especially when many of these champions aren't that useful in a teamfight. People also tend to forget that split-pushing is countered by champions with good waveclear. I've been in the situation before of being super fed as Trundle or Nasus with 3-4 items, but I can't take turrets because the Garen that I crushed in lane or the 1-6 mage support just sits under the turret and clears the wave .

[@plektosgaming]

People where doing this years and years ago. lol. If you leave your lane undefended, expect it to get hammered pretty quickly. I've even seen this in recent pro matches. The enemy is so focused on some objective that their lanes get wrecked.

[@heaven64]

Thing is ARAM is the best thing in league

[@danielray7965]

@@heaven64 Well, that's what ARAM is for!

[@juangalvez2404]

I would argue that any champion whose main game plan is split-pushing should be reworked. You are literally choosing a champion that makes the game single-player and that defeats the entire purpose of playing the game for you and everyone else in it. Like Vars said, the strategy should be viable, but it should carry heavy risk.

[@aeugh8998]

People just don't wanna learn nowadays agaisnt splitpush. What you just wanna coinflip ob keep doing ARAM? You know splitpush is a viable wincon and actually help your teammates through pressure alone

[@agaed7676]

I think splitpushing needs to be in the game and it needs to be viable because it is at times the only way to deal with specific team comps, as a fiora player i often encounter comps that are just not feasible to teamfight into because they just make a ball and I can’t interact with them. And every melee bruiser in toplane deals with this issue to some degree so having an alternative to just trying to outplay the enemy team in a scenario you know you won’t win is just not viable. Having splitpushing and more importantly cross mapping lets a large swathe of the champions which can’t function effectively in teamfights like tryndamere or nasus have a role of some kind. Nasus for example would rather never teamfight and only fight 1v1 or 1v2 because adding more people reduces his agency and his ability to be useful, same for tryndamere, so having a consistently viable alternative win condition is necessary for these kinds of champions. It also adds a new layer of macro play because it means your effect on the map is not limited to what you can do combined with your team and allows you to do things separate from your team and be useful. Splitpushing hinges on the concept of pressure and splitting pressure and spreading it across the map should be just as viable as having the pressure concentrated wherever there are many people.

[@ahubb21]

idk if it's a hot take or not, but I miss Thornmail being able to proc Grievous Wounds on CC. It felt way more reliable to get GW on the enemy, especially if they weren't an auto-attack focused champ, like Vlad.

[@Underworlder5]

thornmail no longer does that? so is the tank just supposed to say "hey, aatrox! hit me!"?

[@swolegolisopod7340]

​@Underworlder5 hey vlad can you just auto attack me rq? 👉👈🥺

[@Omnifarious42]

@@Underworlder5 Yeah and if he doesn't auto then he doesn't proc Grievous Wounds. Which is just fantastic...

[@xolotltolox7626]

They just need to delete that it applies GW on thorns proc, it has no counterplay and just deletes life steal. If it applied only on CC it would be much more fair

[@SomeoneSomewhere42069]

14:46 I disagree. I think URF should be a permanant game mode BECAUSE it's so different than solo queue. It's the same map, but you get instant access to the map via the cannon, the games go by alot quicker (like swiftplay in Val), and people are generally less sweaty there, and I think that will increase if it becomes permanant. I think URF will get a reputation like ARAM of being the chill game mode to relax from solo queue

[@MrTylerMatyas]

I absolutely agree that URF should be a permanent game mode, and one of the reasons I've not played league as much in the last 8 years is because they removed the alternate game modes. I never enjoyed standard league very much, but Dominon was fantastic. 3s was also great. Those are both gone forever, so the only 'casual' choice really is ARAM. I preferred when URF was slower, though, and I think the cannon is actually an unfun mechanic.

[@SomeoneSomewhere42069]

@@MrTylerMatyas I prefer the cannon, because I like it's tactical applications too. It gives everyone a free knockup, if they can land it. But I also like 1ForAll's idea which is just a huge amount of decaying out of combat ms to get you back to lane quicker.

[@ZirixStrarstrider]

I'm gonna stay by this take forever, but, if you want a match, to be finished in under 20 minutes, then, you don't have to play a moba, buddy. I don't see people crying about football matches being long.

[@DaiPai1777]

Is your comma button broken

[@tartagilia2448]

The diffrence between a moba and foot ball is in football when a guy makes a good play he doesn't get boosts which makes him play better this is honestly a horrible argument in league its a game where u get a reward for how u play....football soccer basketball etc .....dont do that so leave real life sports out of the mental gaming world because league and stat based games are mental physical sports aren't as mental they more reactive such as formation to break formation etc

[@ZirixStrarstrider]

@@tartagilia2448 Really? He doesn't get boost? If a player in the team plays like ass, and the team still gets a championship, he still is champion... If a good player makes a good play, he gets on the eyes of bigger teams, that, makes him play better. Football also rewards you on how you play. And again, you really missed the point of my first post. I never talked about the way of playing, i was talking about people thinking that a MOBA match should end in 5 minutes, when the game needs a lot of development and being long for strategies and plays. Crying about a game for being "Too long" just because the match didn't finish in 20 minutes, for me, is stupid.

[@tartagilia2448]

@@ZirixStrarstrider depending in comp and champions I could agree but if u have a all early game comp vs a full scaleing Como and get blown away I would say complaining is fine it won't do much but the football thing is still not hitting there are many champion players legit know one knows or cares about because we know they where carried some where on the field for less then 2 or 3 mins we don't call those champions as darius says we call those coat tail passengers

[@Storiaron]

The footballs players get paid for it. And the viewers can change channel without someone taking their football watching privileges away as a punishment

[@slowedvsbattle]

i prefer to cut my fingers than relying on the neanderthals from my teams, i'd rather just split the whole game away from them

[@Dragonoid269]

I don't consider auto fill a problem at all (it is needed if a large proportion of the player base avoids a role for some reason, but I rarely get auto filled though even as a mid laner). Any issue of imbalanced auto filling shouldn't even need to occur except for super high and super low elo, where queue times are always going to be insane. In any other elo you can easily make sure that the number of auto filled players on both sides is balanced.

[@shotgunelephant718]

Me, having gotten "Curtain Call" thrice yesterday, must say that I dont mind at all.

[@4voltsbattery]

me remembering when the inhib and nexus tower had a laser that shreds enemies with a lot of hp that stays under it for a long time. I wonder how we could make inhib and nexus tower survive longer

[@feedraaaaa]

Autofill doesn't equal first timing a new champ. I know a lot of people do that and I despise that but I don't despise autofill because every roll has a safe option to pick for people who aren't comfortable in the role and they can play safe. The biggest thing is that people who get put into a role they're not comfortable with, they get bashed by their teammates and that makes it very unliked

[@jaeger1123]

So early, the video is still 360p

[@amarsaikhanpurevee7035]

Just had to double check. 👌

[@joshaltea]

Same T-T

[@hades2097]

So late, video is now in 1080p

[@austensmith6857]

No one cares lol

[@tobisupersmart]

@@austensmith6857I care :(

[@Wildcat12]

It should exist, and certain characters being good at it is fine, but it isn't something that should be getting systemically encouraged by the game. Same as something like proxy farming. If splitpushing or proxy farming are a common and effective strategy then there is a problem with the game, because while they have a place as strategies, the optimal way to play should almost never be to avoid interaction with your opponent. (To be clear: This isn't referring to teleporting top and taking a turret during a dragon fight, this is referring to "I will splitpush the entire game and never fight". If that is a strategy that's winning consistently, that is not good.)

[@pavelsvacha]

Honestly the URF thing is Riots fault entirely for driving all the for fun players away and only focusing on the competetive aspect. Also ARURF sucks ass even more because it's a coin toss whether you win with how steamrolly some champions are

[@freddyaxebear7547]

I think an idea for autofill could be that when you are matchmaking if the game intends to autofill you the game alerts you that it will autofill you with role "x" and you have the option to accept, pass, or cancel matchmaking. The pass option just boost everyone back to matchmaking but no one has to worry about starting matchmaking all over again. It could be fine tuned from there by say limiting how often you could pass or if you could only pass so many times in a row etc. It gives the person being autofilled a bit more agency in knowing exactly what they are getting into and allow them to avoid a role they just can't do. I think that before they do that they should do a hot role fill option, basically give players an incentive to play fill or play less populated roles by giving them extra blue essence or something. At least some players would do a daily where they have to play a few matches of fill or a less popular role if they got something out of it, especially if they get more for winning. Other games with role based multiplayer have done something like this and it does help to a degree, they just have to make sure to prevent players from abusing it.

[@1diotwithastick]

yes and passes could be earned with honors or something like that, promoting a healthier community with more than just key shards lmao.

[@nojaodoggo2896]

10:10 jg and supp trying to help vs the ranged devil, lovely

[@ambershangout7226]

In my opinion showing KDA is detrimental to teamwork, a player with a negative kda can still be useful to a team by wasting the enemies time dealing with them, alternatively show negative bounties so everyone can see “oh yeah this player is only worth as much as a cannon minion, another death doesn’t really matter “

[@DarthRadical]

IMO - a good fix for split-pushing without making the game too slow. Tier 2/3 towers get an armor/MR buff for each remaining tier 1/2 tower respectively. So if you take all 3 tier 1s first the tier 2 towers are the same as currently. (Note: you could have the center towers not gain this buff)

[@aronm5329]

7:30 Love this video! I'm a mid main and play ap and ad champs. The reason ap ratios to towers get ridiculous late game is because the are pretty underwhelming early when it really matters. The first tower is worth triple the gold of any other if you take it down in 14 mins. It give ad champs a chance to get way ahead and effect and the game early, while ap champs are off catching waves, the tower damage is to just somewhat make them a theat

[@Sarixis]

Even though it's not profitable to just VGU the old champions, I still wish they'd at least make a sweeping attempt to address the sheer amount of power creep and accretion that plagues the game. We're now in a game state where there's so much tankbusting present that tanks who were meant to be ridiculous meatwads of HP and resistances for their team fall off in the late game. It's understandable not to want stall strats to be dominant but it begs the question of why bother designing champions who are meant to scale that want to slow down the game? As for split pushing, I think it's fine as a niche strategy. Blasphemous as it sounds, split pushing was fun when Banner of Command existed and gave supports a method to win the game for their team. They'd need to heavily tune that item to not be all or nothing though. If they actually made towers properly sturdy it would go a long way to give ADC a use and team function beyond damage since the role has all of the traits you want for sieging.

[@dravendraven1471]

As long as Sion can give Draven the win, it'll always have Draven's seal of approval.

[@zachtemoro2116]

Hullbreaker lives and dies by how many stats and how expensive it is. Me personally I think it should be a cheap item with half the stats, but it scales with other items. That or nerf the dmg to structures and make it 4 hits instead of 5. I like the concept of the item in its current iteration but its not really a viable pick up for almost any bruisers who’d most likely build it. Though I’ve had success with Atk Spd, LT Kled who W maxes. Fun and allows for him to be more viable later on where he is weakest

[@765craven4]

I think Split Pushing is a healthy thing to be viable but it's incredibly annoying to win lane against a Kayle, Sion, Tryndamere, Yorick, etc and start rotating to assist your team with teamfights and objectives and have to concede that you have to go back to your lane immediately after, sometimes with teleport, just to respond to their split because nobody else will. It's especially obnoxious against Kayle because she hyper scales and becomes virtually impossible to 1v1 or even 1v2 if the game goes long enough. I play champions like Sion and Tryndamere but I definitely consider split pushing a backup strat with both of them and prioritize grouping for objectives and I do quite well at that. It's sad that they have the reputation they do because it leads to a lot of flame even in champ select from my own team even if I don't play them the typical way most would expect.

[@kadalix]

about the change in autofill, i know eastern countries will have a FIT about having longer queue times having relying on gaming cafe times and all i think more western countries are okay waiting because we have the time to wait

[@donataspo2677]

I really like your rambling videos, its really interesting listening to you. Cant wait for the next episode

[@metrux321]

The thing with urf is that it was never that cool to me, it's kinda pure chaos. But it was always a very 'loved' thing, while the other modes that we used to have disappeared one by one. So, as you said, urf became more prevalent, because other fun modes died one by one at the feet of urf, and with that it wasn't a fun game mode anymore, it became a whole thing. I'd still love to see some of the other modes back, or some inovative new ones, things that don't focus on just mechanics and fast paced action, but other facets of lol aswell.

[@Notllamalord]

Heavy on the tower fragility nowadays, dying once top lane at 10 minutes and coming back to half a tower really sucks. Also, we need our own “operation health” where we have a season of bug fixes and balance patches instead of new content

[@thomasb5307]

Ok for bugfix, but balance patches would be useless. We have had periods where the game was somewhat close to being balanced with many types of champions being viables and not so many champions being overtuned, and then Riot does a big system change and the balancing was all over the place. Balancing in this game feels like a sandcastle that they destroy every half a year or so and it has to be done all over again, focusing an entire season on it just to see it being destroyed the very next season doesn't make much sense

[@jususi71]

The thing about autofill in high elo is that even if u remove autofill and have to wait 10-20 minutes for a lobby where every1 has their prefered role(s), someone is still gonna end up dodging because of full ad/full ap or ur jgl firstpicked nidalee and the rest of nidalees team picked scaling champs with no prio, or just something else. If they wanted to remove autofill, they kind of simoultaneously have to remove dodging/make it 5 times as punishing so ppl dont do it.

[@senatheEND]

Low effort but still good, allows for more real takes and discussions.

[@Taylor-bw4zg]

i can save yall 22 minutes: yes its insanely toxic to have one person able to win the game by not participating in any major aspect of it. nothing worse than losing to some dickhead who literally never left his lane unless it was cuz they died. I can understand the need to split when ur team isnt able to win a fight but making it a core part of the game makes it miserable. theres a reason items like zzrots never worked.

[@jeremyfang1624]

I remember the yone hullbreaker week a few months ago lmao

[@morningglory2129]

It was mainly yone and lethal tempo being the main problem. Lethal tempo made him unbeatable early then he was allowed to scale easily aswell.

[@Frightning]

8:45 Or in other words, towers are made of paper right now, and this should be addressed (been saying this for *years*).

[@dawk4949]

It’s a hard thing to balance, one of league’s good sides is its short game time but like you said it’s done by towers being made of paper. Imo mages/AP builds not dealing good tower damage generally should just be a built-in weakness of the class.

[@Frightning]

@@dawk4949 I think AP tower damage is *mostly* fine (AS+AP champs being a bit of an exception there but luckily they are few) Bigger issue is just how fragile towers are, it has largely removed the rotational midgame we used to see in LoL and now laning phases leads to lategame within about 5 minutes of laning phase ending. Games are honestly too short (not drastically, but imo challenger games averaging 25mins and change is about 5 too short, sure lower elos game times can get +5 minutes of that or more, that extra time would be fine with appropriate pacing adjustments to the game).

[@finestcustard5647]

I like the ramble format it’s fun to listen to. Don’t feel like you need to apologize for it :p

[@certainlya5248]

Lukewarm Take: They should do more reworks instead of new champions. 7 new champions, that barely get excitement is tiring to watch than reworking 1 whole champion who needs a VGU or CGU. There are so many champions who need a massive VGU, in order to match their thematic add more enjoyment than ever and some freshness to their kit and there is one canidate I can think of, who needs a massive visual and gameplay overhaul and this is Corki, also Nocturne, Quinn, Rumble, Talon, Kogmaw, Mordekaiser* and Trynda need a massive overhaul. *Mordekaiser: The rework is a carbon copy of Darius but AP, without any consideration about the fact that there are no AP juggernaut items or more, a very lacking pool of AP juggernaut items. As an old Mordekaiser main, the rework is beyond terrible and as I played both with 400k mastery each, I prefer the old one much more. The deathrealm, does not fit a juggernaut, rather than a duelist and his thematic has been missed a lot, a new way to introduce his old ult, is making a ghost, based on the champions class, e.g. marksman, mage, tank, assassin etc. and each has their respective ghost just to prevent the excess amount of bugs. It would overload him, but I think he would end up like Irelia, having some tweaks and he then gets balanced, this way his old identity is being preserved instead of making an AP carbon copy of Darius.

[@alexcat6685]

You don't want to end up like Irelia, I agree though mordikaiser is dogwater both in fun and effectiveness, fails in sustain, damage is made up for the fact his survival has a similar issue to rumble and his ult stops him from fighting the enemy team. Yeah how about: My terrain: Passive: Moridkasier gains stacks of souls after killing targets, each stack grants 1 armor. Active Mark a target with Dread, increasing his movement speed against them and hits by mordikasier cripples the target by 2 seconds and Mordikaiser gains 20% tenacity. After Getting a kill on the victim, command their soul that uses one ability and auto attacks. Able to mark Epic monsters.(like baron, Dragon, herald and grubs) THis is focused more on fun but the counter is the fact mordikasier basically says to enemy team "Im killing this person, try and stop me" which fits his character way better than kind just scurring to his dimension like a coward he sort of is. In similar form with skarner they focused too much on balance to create much new.

[@noclue7080]

The issue with urf, and any league gamemode for that matter, is exactly that. They're an extension to the main league experience. League of legends is a game built solely on competitiveness and nothing else, and it naturally harbours players from that sphere (that's why Riot wants you to play ranked, they rely on your drive to win to keep you playing even when you hate the game). Where this becomes a problem, however, is when they try to stray a little bit away from their philosophy in an attempt to make something actually fun. Arena was an S tier gamemode that was ruined when players eventually figured out what wins games and what doesn't. I'd try a weird combination but ultimately get outclassed by two tanks game after game. Urf has the exact same issue. I'd VERY occasionally see someone actually testing out a stupid af build (ms jhin, ap yi, etc), but it all felt meaningless when you face the same ten champs that plague this fucking game. I had wanted to try lethality jinx, and faced another jinx who was mastery 7. He won the lane against me and typed "jinx diff" whenever he killed me. A mastery 7 player shit-talking me, someone who had never played this fucking champ before outside of aram and custom games.

[@hellfrozenphoenix13]

I think Towers should all have a universal defense boost early that slowly saps as the game goes on. At the very least, Nexus Turrets should. Towers should get more durable the further jn base you go, but instead its outer towers are by FAR the most tanky (with plates up). I get having anti turtling measures that make it so that defending for like 50 min isnt possuboe, but having a base gone by 20 min isnt any better.

[@daimonik7572]

for the topic with trying new strats in proplay. it can work if riot would allow it, look at dota where at the ti9 a support champ was picked as hardcarry and they build they team around it

[@JuandanielDelacruzsantos]

15:33 There is an item in Dota 2 called Vladimir Offering that doesn't give good base stats but it has an aura that gives all allies(including minions and clones) damage, life steal armor, and mana regen, i can say a one-to-one recreation would be good but an item who just give stats to your allies could be good like giving flat damage and/or armor/magic res. Buff could be good on supports and tanks that just want to be near his teamates peeling them (also nerfing the aura on creeps and summons)

[@karasutsuki1733]

i was kinda hoping its a splitpush only video instead of a Comments Q&A :(

[@harrygreenhalgh8929]

i think they should make it so that the tower has reduced resistances against teams so that winning a team fight and rushing the enemy base still works but split pushing takes longer. also make the tower do true damage with maybe even a scaling % health multiplier on so you dont just have champions being able to it under tower taking 7 or 8 shots and being fine so that tower diving is an actual risk

[@dongholio707]

...that first part actually doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[@kevinbimariga3895]

Imagine that you think this game already have too much true damage and now you want the tower to have it too? Welcome to the league of true damage 😂

[@Omnifarious42]

The tower already does scaling % max health damage...

[@sephirothslayer1152]

Hot take? Pantheon’s ult spear shouldn’t deal dmg. The aoe should but the spear once killed me from a quarter with no warning. Either introduce a sound que to make people aware or remove the dmg from it.

[@kristijonaspovilaitis5834]

If autofill got removed i would probably quit league because id rather play the actual game 90% of the time when im playing rather than 50% of the time

[@mathiasandersen3762]

"pro players wouldn't pick Darius toplane"... yeah about that. there is a notorious juggernaut main in LEC right now, Adam, who is specifically known for Darius, Garen and olaf, and he is, to my dismay, good.

[@SovietBattlePonies]

Like it really was great just to get your hot takes, it has more of a podcast episode which I also very much enjoyed, so keep em up! It's not low effort if people are curious. Like you definitely smash the whole league documentary genre, but this is also entertaining to listen to - in my case while cooking haha

[@hungrymusicwolf]

I remember when selecting your roles was a new thing. If you think you'll only get 2 or 3 times the queue you're sorely mistaken, be ready for 30+ minutes of queue time. I remember close to 1 hour queue times sometimes back then. You simply cannot have both role selection and no auto fill. The least popular roles need to be filled otherwise the queue system will always go at the rate of players that prefer the least popular role queueing up, with an increasingly longer queue due to the discrepancy.

[@WhenYouGoMadd]

The only way to nerf split-pushing without screwing up the balance. Is to make it so ADCs don't lose their ability to destroy towers/siege, while nerfing everyone else's ability to do so.

[@xydem]

i'd like more tangents, please. after over a decade in the game, i've looked at it in so many different ways, seen so many changes, and probably heard every take possible in one form or another. it's nice to hear someone other than myself tangenting about these things for a change.

[@hims1245]

People who think that getting rid off autofill is just going to make Qs 10-15min are clueless. Back on the day Qs where something between 30-90min.Tilting more to the 90minute mark when going up on rank. I really believe that we shoud go back to people picking depending on lobby order(this could be improve in someway so you dont get last pick 5 games in a row). I know it sounds bad, but heard me out. Firts: it will make people learn more than 1 role, learning how other roles/champions work is a good way to improve on many aspects. . Second: you can still ask for a specific role, you may not get it, but thats the same as being autofill.

[@andrechristoforomoraes4956]

I cant imagine playing without autofill. Last time I tried to play a solo normal game, it took me 28 minutes to find a match. For the record, I'm a diamond/master player in Brazil, but this to me is ridiculous. My soloq is lot faster tho

[@demirdemirezen3806]

you win games but destroying the nexus, you don't win by having the most kills. You don't measure the worth of a team fight by just looking at the kills you consider objectives who got the towers, dargon or baron. Split pushing is just applying pressure, if i can get one shot instantly bc of one miss step i should have an alternitive way of being useful. If my team is behind and i am not fed i am not going to try to pick a fight bc i will lose it so i will split push get the enemies attention on me so my team gets a chance to catch up and if they don't try to stop me and kill my team i get to balance it out. As long as games are this snowbally split pushing has to be viable. Also if i snowball and just splitpush i should be able to be a threat bc every champion can't just 1v9, if i am playing volibear top and i have decent armor and health and ability haste i can 1v2 against the enemy top and jg but if the enemy has fed ap carry i can't do anything until i got magic ressit. I can't just run at the ap carry without them one shotting me best i can do is avoid them until i get magic ressit and best way to avoid is to split push. At the end of the day it boils down to what my champion is cabaple of and what my team needs, as long as there are champions with insane snowball potential or unmatchable skill sets i will avoid them and split push. I am not going to try the impossible just bc my best win conditions is "cringe".

[@demirdemirezen3806]

Also i agree split pushing can be really over powered but from my point of view as someone who doesn't play meta champions or flashy champions with tons of moblity and bailouts i thibk its fair bc if my champions can't match the tempo or damage of the enemy champions just bc they are buffed or desniged unfairly i have to be able to as unfair as they can be. If i can't do that it just means my champions sucks unless i snowball everytime i play if there is going to be that are overpowered by desing and i can't catch up to their power without picking a similar champion there is no reason to have 160 plus champions.

[@GamingEelektross]

I do know on the topic of the autofill discussion, there was a test on one server (I think Latin American) where players would queue for the two roles they wanted and then opt out of one role to be auto filled in (example: Mid, ADC, dont jg) and it took queue timers so much longer that it didnt stick or get implemented elsewhere.

[@raphaelantoine7331]

If only towers weren't made out of paper past 25 minutes 😅

[@stephenkrahling1634]

I feel like split pushing should be a great way to get you BACK into the game, it should almost never be the thing that just wins you the game. And yeah I feel like towers are just made of paper these days, where as soon as people start hitting 2 items the game is basically over. They win a single fight mid game and take 90% of your base off of a single death timer. It makes playing late game scaling champions feel awful, who cares if Vlad/Nilah/Vayne can form the infinity gauntlet if you never get to use it

[@jacksonturner7898]

Personally i really like these type of videos, you definintly have much more insight and knowlegde then the majority of players on league. It's nice to hear your stream of concious on the game, and I am definitly all here for more videos like this in the future! (ontop of your other amazing videos haha)

[@valberline]

watching that lucian get absolutely mulched 100-0 was satisfying on a visceral level

[@thekingofawesomeness9173]

I think you could compromise with auto fill by removing it from ranked but keep it in any other game mode. Sense people play ranked to climb and you cant climb playing someone you never have

[@graysonrowe9780]

About the auto fill, in my mind if you get a crappy game because of auto fill you’re actually “waiting” the 15-40 minutes it takes to finish that game to then queue for a different one

[@ibrahim5463]

Hot take,i want goredrinker and prowler claw back,they were very fun iteams

[@Shepherd_of_Fire009]

I think there is a version of the game where they can exist or at least the core concept behind them can exist in a healthy state

[@clarence3238]

goredrinker was only fun for the champs that abused it, shut the fuck up please

[@kauanjos3199]

Remove sundered sky and bring back gore drinker

[@SCHPIDERMANN]

well thats for sure a hot take and im gald this will happen

[@VICHEL1]

What a horrible split pushing take. The trade off of split pushing is that champions that are good at it are bad at teamfighting. Its fine to have the option as a player to specialize in champions that are good at dueling and taking towers rather than every game being about who wins teamfights. It is also good at punishing lack of coordination. Its a way for temas who drafted less circles in their ultimates to win. It is completely fine to have split pushing be a major strategy to build around, it also helps games be more diverse. I'm glad the devs are trying to incentivice it.

[@StonedDragons]

Hull breaker is perhaps my most hated item in the game simply from a concept perspective, it's saying "I am playing a team game but am not going to do anything with the rest of my team." in item form while giving massive buffs that help in making towers irrelevant and ensuring your opposite number is tied up simply by you existing, regardless of how well or not you've done in the game to that point.

[@Izanamiama]

12:51 "a knife in a hot butter" - Vars

[@Ven-zg3fj]

I think a video on alternate takes on champs from wild rift would be a very fun video idea! Go for it!

[@ColetheFlame01]

7:50 I know its a rather old video but dear gosh this is way too true. the amount of times I've played Fizz, only to darn near oneshot the turret with a W Lich Bane boosted auto is insane. I should not be rivaling a Mundo with demolish in turret damage category.

[@frobo]

"top gap" 😭 good job Vars

[@codyhodge5271]

Honestly, this content doesn't feel low-effort. Before I knew it, 20 minutes went by listening to the vid. Certainly wouldn't mind more to the series as a old-school LoL player from S1-4 days. It's incredibly interesting to hear how the game has evolved over the course of 10 years and the issues that plague it today

[@vincentgonnet]

Hey Vars ! I have been watching your videos from quite some time now, and though I do prefer the scripted, illustrated ones, I think you're doing very good improvising like that Your points are clear, it feels natural and it's enjoyable as a format. I hope there will be more !

[@Tacoman000]

Hi Vars! I only play Wild Rift, I love your content even though some topics I dont really get. But I would also like to see a video comparing champs from WR to PC. Maybe retouching from your video on champs who should be in League 2 and the overlap between them and WR as well. Thanks for the good content!

[@cotren8860]

That would be so fun specially since there's alot of champs that are different than their pc versions in there

[@UnAware__]

What if you had items for split and you'd have to specifically build for split pushing at the cost of teamfight stats?

[@cavalryscout9519]

One thing that might help with split-pushing is to give towers a buff to defense based on the number of the previous tiers that are still up. So the tier 1 tower has normal health, a tier 2 with 2 tier 1 still standing has 3X health, tier 3 with 2x tier 2 and 2x tier 1 still standing would have 5x health, etc. Leave the final towers as is. This would slow down the split-push down a single open lane, while still allowing a split-pusher to sneak 1 tower while the team is in another lane. It's pretty normal for all the tier 1 towers to go down at around the same time, and even when both teams are treating it like ARAM it's pretty normal for the towers in the side-lanes to be cleared up to the same point as the mid lane. This would only have a big effect when the team is trying to go 2-3 towers deep down one lane while leaving the others untouched. If a player wanted to play a focussed split-pusher, they still could, they'd just have to alternate pushing both side lanes while the team pushes mid.

[@D3f3nd3er53]

Renekton mid is real and mages should be scared

[@DrAlchem01]

Wild Rift Annie has an additional knockup ability on her ult (tap again when Tibbers is deployed to knock up the target) which makes her much more enjoyable to play. Some of the changes are actually really useful

[@cerealmama3879]

5:16 Adam (BDS top): let me introduce myself