League of Legends Has A Damage Problem

[@CaptainStoutland]

I do miss the times when Tank wouldn't explode in 7 seconds or less, but I think another thing that has also become way more prominent along with damage is CC as well. Being locked down or slowed for 5 - 8 seconds is so miserable and if it's knock ups it feels even worse since you can't even reduce it.

[@Nikolai0169]

Not to mention how buggy the knockup mechanics are in the first place, we still regularly see people literally getting launched to the moon and its been a known issue for most of leagues life span.

[@piotrj333]

I think biggest problem is because they putted damage on every tank + given damage to runes, + given some items damage and you get outcome. Icebron gauntlet was tank item, but having sheen proc is important from perspective of damage. The old sunfire cape was only damage tank item in the past, and it did btw, 35 dmg per second or 25-43 (based on level). Current sunfire cape does 25-43 (+4% max hp dmg), damage increase over time and guess what. It is too weak item in current meta to buy for most champions.

[@animalxing8697]

​@@Nikolai0169that's actually a feature on blitz jg now, since they couldn't be bothered to fix it

[@einjharrelraca]

@piotrj333 its only weak in the current meta because tank stats flat out dont matter unless you are a bruiser, and it only matters for bruisers because they can easily break an hp pool of 15k with their inbuilt healing. Id rather need to cut through a 7k hp sejuani with 400 armor and 300 mr than the lethality aatrox, because the hp sejuani loses isnt coming back, i only need to do 7000 of it. Meanwhile aatrox is filling his 3k hp pool all the way to full every 2s through grevious wounds.

[@aaronscott7467]

​​@@piotrj333also Sunfire isn't the king of stats anymore. It used to be one of if not the best statted tank items. Nowadays though you look at that and then you look at randuin's and it's really hard to justify building a Sunfire Cape when random is just strictly better. Unless you're looking for the damage specifically which defeats the purpose of a tank item.

[@noamias4897]

Tank meta, or any threat of tank meta, has almost never been about tanks being extremely broken but rather non-tank champs building tank items and becoming unkillable while killing everyone else. I don't get why people pretend like tanks were ever the main problem

[@Bendzsike]

Yeah, let's not talk about Sejuani, Zac, Ornn, Sion, K'Sante running over people in the past couple of seasons without any damage items lol

[@juanfelipecardenasgomez9124]

False Tanks were the problem they could carry 1 vs 9 it was awfull, then flashy characters started building tank and that made them super annoying, but Tanks were Stiller a bigger problem and the winning condition

[@bullettime1116]

Tanks are still cringe and a problem regardless of the meta, especially in a dmg meta because they become unkillable and can oneshot you

[@einjharrelraca]

​@Bendzsike thats a damage is too high overall problem, not a tank problem.

[@ivangamarra8138]

People dislike tanks and find them boring because most of them dont have the explosive damage that these dopamine addicted, tiktok/synapse enjoyers need to fullfill their 1v9 fantasies, kinda the same happens with control (area denial) mages. I swear ive read som people hitting on champs like sion, ornn and zac for being "too simple" and then you open their profiles to find the most brainrot darius, udyr, briar in the entyre server

[@arkokroeger9799]

The Damage Meta is also what gave rise to the ap bot laners in my opinion. Why playing a normal adc who has only access to auto attack range when you can lock in a ziggs and deal the damage from a much safer range? Like, I cannot even deal 1 auto attack without getting engaged on and insta killed, so what's the point? Just one shot them from half a screen away before they one-shot you. Better than hoping that the Tank will help you because, let's be honest, the tank also deals billions of damage even without you.

[@amiablereaper]

Yeah, that along with mobility creep making range less safe Like, if I'm on the same screen as a Yone, he can just decide to be next to me, and there's very little I can do about it

[@The_Schmizz]

@@amiablereaper lol ya and if u dodge everything he still kills u cause hes full build at 2 items and autos u twice and ur dead

[@baptistecochennec5956]

By your logic we are not in a damage meta since season 8/9

[@7arooofps]

true, with the current items we have in the game I see a well balanced tank meta bringing back the usefulness of ad carries. Of course it still depends on how Riot balances the numbers on a lot of things but I'd rather kite and hit a tank that deals piss poor dmg after I scaled up to late game vs getting one shot by any champion in the game right now the moment I get into my AA range.

[@onlywide]

@@7arooofps fr bro like skarner can run you down as most any adc if you are even with him or sometimes when ur ahead of him too its crazy

[@Darkry]

I love how they released "tank update" where they made everyone tankier with a bit more HP, more regen and so on... just to ruin it a while later :D

[@glenndiddy]

We decided to remove the old runes because they were complicated, you know the runes with scaling armour and MR. The runes that gave up to 30MR and armor to anyone who felt like they needed it. I remember not having 37 mr in the late game as an ADC, those were better times

[@Darkry]

@@glenndiddy Oh, the time when 1% crit was a thing...

[@glenndiddy]

@@Darkry I'm not saying every single rune was a banger, but the current 50mr at level 18 trend is kinda disgusting. Mages get more flat pen than that without even trying. And since tanks and tank items often deal more magic than physical damage, they also hurt a lot more than they should on squishies

[@Darkry]

@@glenndiddy Well, I loved the 1% crit anyways, so... :D But the problem were the runes that you could get on special occasions. If you didn't, you were in a disadvantage

[@glenndiddy]

@@Darkry There were no time excelusive runes at all. At least not in the system used since season 2

[@alanyang7801]

Riot’s dug themselves far too deep into the damage meta that they’d have to factory reset the game just to get have it fixed. I’ve noticed myself asking this question a whole lot: “Why am I taking so much damage?!” Damage right now is so absurd that death recap lists “unknown” as a damage source 🤷‍♂️

[@ignaciorodriguezcorzon6737]

recieving half of my hp as ''unknown'' damage is so tilting. not even the game itself can handle his own pace

[@MangaGamified]

great idea, I heard someone said Season 3 had the best formula for non-esports. Unfortunately, that's far off cause I remember Riot saying if damage is low enough, esports would be boring and just hugging towers for half the game, waiting for the other side to be greedy if not make mistakes under tower. esport matches are the only thing they are fixing *💸*

[@alanyang7801]

@@MangaGamified that’s exactly what happened. People were complaining that esports was boring to watch with matches having less than 10 kills per game. Season 3 definitely had the best meta and the season I began playing league. Still to this day the best meta imo

[@toobig7150]

@@MangaGamified God i hate Esports so much, or rather, i hate that Riot legit thinks that normal #$%"#$ people plan to get better and get into the LCE or something, like bruh, the only reason i play ranked in the first place its to not deal with premades. Idc about 324Korean guys battling it out with the same 32 champions and the same tired tactics each season, let them have their own meta, focus on the MILLIONS playing your game, not the barely thousands making plays 8 times a year. Nuf said.

[@MangaGamified]

@@toobig7150 True, they play the same

[@DandiIion]

Dont forget all the "tank" items that generate damage as a passive now. Its almost all of them. I don't want to do more damage damnit.

[@bradonhassell5567]

It’s actually so annoying. People complain about tanks doing too much damage when basically every core tank item has some kind of damage over time effect. As a tank player, I want more fucking tankiness, not unending despair. Need more items like Jaksho and FoN.

[@freshlymemed5680]

@@bradonhassell5567 Those passives made sense in the older seasons when tanks really did no damage so sticking to your target and having an external damage source helped. Nowadays so many tanks just have damage built into their kit so that compounded with tank items that give external damage just make tanks do more damage than they should. Like so many tanks deal %HP base damage or scale off their own HP/defensive stats, the new Skarner does a disgusting 10% max hp damage from his passive which is ridiculous for a tank to even have. And tank items not being extra tanky isn't the issue, its that damage is inflated to the point tank items aren't as good. Inflating tank stats will just give us another tank meta when Riot eventually does nerf damage.

[@metrux321]

@@freshlymemed5680 That's assuming riot WILL nerf damage. They won't. As miserable as it gets with all this damage, things are just fine and dandy for them, games lasting less, so more games played, people get to "live their 1v9 fantasies". For balance it's terrible, for profit it's incredible.

[@faloughasch9239]

​@bradonhassell5567 I personally wouldn't mind unending despair of it JUST healed based on nearby enemies, and didn't do damage, almost like redemption in TFT. That would make it a decent tank item since a lot of tanks dont have in-built healing, but prevent it from being an item to do damage.

[@dongholio707]

This. Exactly this. I don't want to deal damage, I just want to eat everyone else's up.

[@mordiusm4400]

I was playing an Aram the other day. Full build mundo, almost 250 armor, almost 200 MR, near 7k hp. Killed in 3 seconds by 2 people. That shouldn't happen. If I was a squishy, that would have been instant.

[@bradonhassell5567]

Played Shen yesterday with 5.5 hp and 350 MR, stacked force of nature + jaksho and had close to 450. Still got effectively one shot by a Brand.

[@Tiagocf2]

I was playing Aram with Voli against 3 Assassins 1 Garen and 1 Morde, naturally I built full armor and still got bursted everytime and no one had % penetration lol

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Yeah I want that clip lol who where you playing agaisnt

[@Jibbert]

ARAM Mundo is a terrible example bc he literally does not function the same way as on Summoner's Rift

[@Underworlder5]

one game i was full build mundo on ARAM just like you. still got deleted in less than a second by lethality vi

[@SaarlaneKretiin]

tank meta is not to be feared. anymore. we have anti tank items and answers now. if fights are longer there is more skill expression. i miss that in league

[@viktorgombos4975]

I mean kinda true but at the same time tanks are easily the easiest champions to play

[@danielbarnes1241]

​@@viktorgombos4975 Champs like Yi and pantheon are right there lol

[@SlurpKing100]

@@viktorgombos4975 Only mechanically

[@jonathanwynne6925]

short fights have skill expression because you can't miss or you have to dodge to win, I play crit Quinn and if I miss blind or fail to dodge a single ability, I'm usually dead

[@SoulHydron]

Unless ur team is all ap

[@vantagehgc3499]

>nerf defensive stats and passives on staraks and maw >funnel that loss of defense into offensive stats >riot wondering why champs like fizz get 1 item and can one shot i swear these devs have absolutely no self awareness lol

[@Sebastian-oz1lj]

they know what they are doing. new players come bcs of this gen z likes fast meaningles games

[@chococuache486]

@@Sebastian-oz1lj tencent likes a controlled population

[@vantagehgc3499]

@@Sebastian-oz1lj nah, i dont think they are doing it on purpose i think its a genuine lack of self awareness. if they wanted team fights to be fast, theyd have kept divine sunderer and anti tank items around for sure lol

[@einjharrelraca]

Gotta keepnthe fortnite kids somehow.

[@bakad5458]

they just need to nerf ap assassins more, ap mages get screwed over by mr items, literally one mr item makes them do 0 dmg and void staff dont do shit

[@domi3784]

Master Duel OST goes too hard for no damn reason

[@mornhiver]

i thought i was trippin

[@benedu3450]

wait a minute. did I open it in my background?

[@wunderkind2396]

I was like, did I not close MD?

[@StylessZ]

Unreasonably good

[@quintessenceoflife7870]

for me it's like ptsd lol

[@stephenkrahling1634]

absolutely, I was thinking about this the other day, how often on a tank I'll get to late game, full build, and get killed in the span of quite literally 2 to 3 seconds.... What in the hell is the point of going full tank if you are functionally the same champion as someone building bruiser, or even damage. The ninja tabi people used to build on marksman is a great example, where you could get that and feel a legitimate difference in your durability. Nowadays it literally does nothing, you're still going to die in 1 combo until you've committed 2+ item slots to full blown tank items

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

It's the price you pay for having a character that will be relevant regardless of kda, or something like that

[@The_Schmizz]

U get to last 3 secs instead of .3 secs. Cmon isnt it obvious. Its not like ur cc'd for those three secs, surely u can get all ur dmg off

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Yeah bc if you are full build chances are adc too and adc kill tank in the late game

[@diorse8851]

@@baptistecochennec5956lol good joke 😂

[@baptistecochennec5956]

@@diorse8851 what you mean good joke tank are supposed to be at their strongest in the midgame after that the insane scaling of adc, (and some hyperscaling mage and bruiser) is supposed to kill them and fast

[@anigodzapex9384]

Many Modern Video Games suffer from this Problem. Games length´s are shortened, so people play more and more. Also are many people desatisfied when they dont deal damage, so everything deals a lot of damage. Wich is a Huge Problem. Game intendet for this are Beat Em Up´s. Mortal Kombat or Tekken Matches get straight up decidet by the sheer damage output of the Combo, wich can easily Reach Half of the HP, with Healing beeing almost non existent at all in the Game. But a slow paced Strategic Moba, clashes really hard with this HIgh Damage. Many potential Scenarious get denighed, or never accure at all, because many members of the Game are dead. Rotations, Peaking into Corners, Trading is all to Risky and the go to Option is either a Catch or a full Blown all in to down the enemy´s. Wich is sad because it makes the Game literal Aram, wich didnt play at all in my First years of playing league. But Aram just got so much more fun, because the Damage theire is almost permanent like in fighting Games, because you cant Recall for rescources anyway. So it comes Hand to Hand with this phylosophie.

[@xylemnguyen223]

I think it's kinda similar to inflation irl, but instead of money value it's damage.

[@anigodzapex9384]

@@xylemnguyen223 Thats sadly a fair statement to make!

[@galactick3816]

Meanwhile wow players will spend 2 hours bashing their heads against a single boss (out of 9)

[@ggwp638BC]

S3 league had about the same or even more damage relative to today. The problem is that we have classes that deal damage and can tank, when tank items get too strong they build tank - tank meta; when damage items get options to nullify tanks, they build damage - damage meta. We don't have too much damage, we have bruisers.

[@Ternalin]

This is actually more a China problem, then a video game problem, people in Asian countries tend to play in internet cafes with limited time so the game revolves itself around them.

[@GameBreaker1055]

What also does not help is that rotations are just much faster in frequency than before. Even if Zed cannot one shot you, he can just return, wait 8 seconds and give it another go. Akali's passive is designed around chipping an opponent down, but give that Assassin damage and she is chipping lives rather than HP!

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Yeah akali passive is used to chip away health... In the early game that's all

[@SquidGains]

Personally I like the idea of faster more frequent damage trades and rotations. The damage just needs to be toned down quite a bit.

[@GameBreaker1055]

@@SquidGains When Akali's reworkd was first shown I was optimistic about how she looked kinda skirmisher like. With the other three ninjas we already have tank, mage, and assassin so that would have been kinda neat to have Akali be a fourth class. Instead she is another boring assassin. I mean, her passive really does not even matter anymore lategame. She kills you with Qs or E and Q

[@riven4121]

@@GameBreaker1055 I mean Akali was always an assassin. Why would Riot change her subclass?

[@GameBreaker1055]

@@riven4121 Class changes are not rare with reworks. Urgot went from a very weird mid-range skirmisher version of Ezreal to an all out bruiser. Nun went from a support-poke mage to an Vanguard-style tank. Sion wetn from an AP Burst mage to a Tank, Galio went from an Poke mage with a nuke and some supportive capabiliies, to an AP-Vanguard. Warwick might have only undergone slight changes, but he still turned into far more of a drain tank than the Master YI style AS-Stacker. There are probably more examples, but I don't have the time right now to go over all reworks. Though GP also had a massive change when his E turned into barrels. He is essentially an AD cotnrol mage with those

[@TheAndroidNextDoor]

The sense ive gotten from playing this season is that everything's all over the place. Some champs that should be doing damage aren't doing enough, some that shouldn't be doing damage are doing too much, and then you have some that should be damage dealers absolutely roided up and steamrolling everyone with nearly no counterplay. Im all for chaotic fun metas but damn is not fun seeing shit like full damage Gragas 1 shotting people while being practically unkillable.

[@mypotatoesarenice]

League has always been a game about positioning. At D1 on a major server they don't know that. You can disable most of voice comms for a professional game and no one will be caught other than a support or a utility jungler. It's a skill issue😂

[@elliotdubois14]

The same exact thing happened to world of Warcraft after 10+ years… its power creep. Items, champs, everything slowly gets stronger and stronger with bigger and bigger numbers. We need a re-set.

[@TheHortoman]

Yep warcraft only did even worse because of its insane ingame inflation making most stuff inaccessible for low level players

[@ggwp638BC]

Not exactly. Damage wise we are getting back to S3 and S4 levels, relative to stats today (kinda like inflation, if things cost 10% more but you earn 10%, then it nets zero and things are the same). People are just weirded out because most players started playing in the tank meta. S3 Annie could blow up an ADC and Support at lvl 6 with basically no items. We got power crept in regards to skillset, and we can't have proper tanks because bruisers exist, but damage wise the game is actually going back to normal.

[@TheHortoman]

@@ggwp638BC huh makes sense, that must be why i cant tell a real difference, i must have skipped tank meta during one of my hiatuses

[@ravenoushydra7948]

@@ggwp638BC You're only looking at single ability/attack numbers. Don't forget that back in S3 cooldowns were like 2-3 times as long as they were today. For example You can queue leona today and have a stun every 5 seconds at level 1 - back in season 3, it was a very long cd. And now pretty much every item has ability haste thrown in for some reason so lategame you are spamming spells like it's nothing. Also supports for some reason are now like a 2nd jungler and can contribute a shit ton of damage as well, depending on the champ they play. Back then, supps didn't get so many free resources like now, not to mention the free supp item, free wards, and many many roam opportunities where u dont lose much to leave lane. And remember back in early seasons it was considered normal for a champ like Vlad to have 0 cc and be a sustain bruiser mage. but power crept so bad that they had to rework him into a oneshotter burst mage. Think about how crazy that is, they barely changed his fundamental kit mechanics(gave some more skill expression on E), and then suddenly he goes from slow sustained damage to a turbo burst hyper carry. And everyone just accepted it

[@livefootball2000]

@@ggwp638BC Annie should be able to do that, skarner and maokai should not. The problem isnt the damage its the champions they allow to deal the damage.

[@fadeddragon123]

This is exactly why I left. Tanks have no place in the game. And when I say “tanks” I don’t mean Darius or even ksante. All tanks have been effectively removed from the game because they were given more dmg in place of being tanky in the meta. As a tank I wanna be able to 1v1 and not be the first to die in a team fight when I engage. I never asked to one shot squishies either.

[@MangaGamified]

Aside from losing money, cheaters and human errors/intervention, game design wise they hate tanks the most. I only played mobas cause all other games becomes P2W after their honeymoon phase. Tanks are my go-to if they're not a 2nd-healer slayve like paladins in most games.

[@toobig7150]

YES, i do want to fight my laner, even more if its a fellow tanker, i DO NOT WANT to face some other guy and kill them, supress them via CC risk? sure, coutner them (poppy-talon) sure, kill them? no, i want to play a "ralling" champion for my team, a wall with hp, not a KV2.

[@fadeddragon123]

@mandoole that is not a tank. All tanks were effectively removed from the game in favor of giving them more damage. You’re missing the point

[@fadeddragon123]

@mandoole You are still missing the point. Learn to read the entire thing. This is about how tanks don’t exist anymore and have no place in the game because riot hates tanks. Tanks don’t melt people and don’t get melted. This is about game design. whenever I play something like ornn I get melted in like 3 seconds because prots /hp mean nothing anymore. Why? Because riot decided in their infinite wisdom to make tanks do more damage and make them all squishier. In their eyes tanks one shotting everything is more entertaining. I would rather be the first to engage, not melt everyone and be the last to die. I want my goal to be disruption. I want to be able to 1v1 but not 1v5. A tank should never be able to 1v1 Ksante isn’t a tank. It’s an abomination. And if that’s their idea of tanks now then the tanks I enjoy have no Place in LoL anymore. The only tank that should be able to melt people is Rammus. Because he’s more of a anti carry If you want an example of a tank… think Leona but actually able to 1v1 people and being a bit tanker baseline. Tanks are about disrupting, engaging and taking hits. You would think someone like ornn could do that.. but he gets melted because of how much anti tank is in the game. Riots idea of game design is a joke and they effectively chased away an entire part of their community. Also %maxhp true dmg is in the game still which has 0 counter play pretty much. Why it’s acceptable is beyond me.

[@mypotatoesarenice]

You die to peel your adc so the game ends. Cluegi low elo

[@ignacioperez5479]

I Will always preffer a tank meta than the one we have now. At least in tank meta You have time to do things

[@Sebastian-oz1lj]

also in tank meta you need to think what you are doing i mean in lane state trades are way more meaningfull as you slowly gain advantage by little better plays over your enemy. in oneshot meta nothing matters as you well kill anyone on combo and bounce waves without thinking

[@bullettime1116]

I prefer a damage meta because games don't last 50 minutes

[@einjharrelraca]

​@bullettime1116 instead they last 24 minutes and only the first 7 matter. Nah im good, "tank" meta was better.

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

​@@einjharrelraca the tank meta seems good at first, but you would eventualy get tired of the same characters building tank and killing you, you would also be forced to build tank and forget damage itens

[@Mysteryspy]

@@bullettime1116 Looking at the graphs he provided, 2% of all games back in the tank meta lasted 50 mins or more. I'll take the tank meta over this damage BS any day.

[@Moakmeister]

Remember last year when they said they were gonna nerf basically all of the damage? Did that just… get cancelled? I still routinely get one-shotted as a tank.

[@pvshka]

Oh they did nerf it, it's just that they re-buffed it twice over since then.

[@ridori7376]

They buffed everyone's tankyness but it basically got powercrept back to how it was before

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Playing a tank doesn't mean you should be invulnerable

[@ridori7376]

@@baptistecochennec5956 There's a difference between not being invulnerable and getting shredded in 1 second by an AP Varus (Thank GOD that got nerfed by the way). The point of tanks is to block enemies from reaching your backline but how do you do that if the enemy can melt you in an instant and go after your backline anyways?

[@baptistecochennec5956]

@@ridori7376 yeah that's kinda the point of ap varus he is the best tank shredder in the game like

[@SaiyanGamer95]

Garen's Ult dealing true damage reminds me of the Juggernaut update, along with his rework. When an enemy killed an ally, Garen would mark that enemy as a villain, causing his E and Ult to deal true damage. That ended up getting partially reverted, but he kept the true damage, now as a part of his kit rather than requiring a "villain" that's no longer around.

[@caetanoba1]

Step 1, assasins are so op they can build defensive items and work fine. step 2, call it "tank meta" step 3 ??????

[@dresean3725]

Assassin's and bruisers*

[@MangaGamified]

Can you reitterate your sentence? cause even when I first heard of "tank meta" it's either the champ designed to be a tank or the item themselves, which was quickly solved by a quick look up at some win rate sites.

[@caetanoba1]

@@MangaGamified "Tank" meta are like 90% of the time just bruisers and asaassins abusing tank items. Maybe the only real Tank meta, was the Mythic Items preseason when Sunfire was op. Every other instance of tank meta its just bruisers

[@MangaGamified]

@@caetanoba1 Oh ok, do you believe Riot hate tanks? there's no definitive proof but back in early seasons, esports was so boring cause everyone was just hugging tower half the game waiting for everyone else to make mistakes or be greedy diving towers. This is also why they introduced dragons to contest something

[@caetanoba1]

@@MangaGamified Did you ever watch esports back them? There was a lot of mistakes, people were out for blood and solobolos, there was a lot of waveclear (sivir the principal offender of that)

[@voltirin511]

They need to do a durability patch in the way of just dialing back all damage in the game by 30%. Just a flat 30% nerf to everyone.

[@peterhoemke2994]

This cannot be overstated! But if you reduce it by 40% instead of 30% AND remove armor and mr growths too (after all, they already deal on percents so scaling them literally means increasing a percentage, which is an exponential buff instead of a cumulative buff), then the damage issue would be resolved and there will still be burst potential, but on the applicable targets only.

[@josemontes478]

Noone talks about it, but one of the main reasons tank meta existed was that ADCs could two shot anyone not building tank

[@Tiagocf2]

i remember playing Crit AD Soraka and 2 shotting everyone lol

[@Ellebeeby]

@@Tiagocf2fear the banana!

[@MangaGamified]

didn't know this lol

[@livefootball2000]

Thats how it should be. ADC is effectively useless today, mage bot has been better for many seasons because they can deal more damage from safer distances with more defensive capability and more utility in teamfights. A 5/0 jinx shouldnt struggle to run the game over at any point.

[@7arooofps]

I'd rather have a tank meta where games are longer than what we currently have right now where everyone deals damage and the game ends before 30 mins. And that's coming from an adc/mage player before I stopped playing back in 2019. Beefy bois are annoying to deal with sure but having a 2 item mage support and a 1 item jungler 100 to 0 me in less than 2 secs is way more frustrating.

[@alexcat6685]

why is it more frustating, surely The fighting against the unkillable is repetive?

[@7arooofps]

@@alexcat6685 The keyword is fighting, You cannot fight someone that one shots you with a single combo, that makes it frustrating. Tanks are harder to kill sure but at least you get to play the teamfight instead of just being deleted before it starts and there are adc skills and items that can deal with tanks much easier which means eventually you will kill them.

[@lotus8847]

Not to mention that since everyone has so much damage and the powerspike is achieved at two items, it makes it so teams who are behind can't comeback. So most games who win early game are almost always a hard stomp

[@HemstitchedIrony]

I've noticed I will chase someone while on like 7-800 hp lategame, and they turn and one shot me with all the passives, item effects, burns, and initial damage boosts combined with a crit, where the actual ability/attack does like 400 damage, but the items and effects end up doing an additional 300 damage that I didn't expect/respect which always makes me go "Oh 😅"

[@noahtheliberator]

The current damage meta is one of the worst meta imo. One of the main reason is that you have less counterplay when you get bursted down instantly or over 1-2 seconds and so it takes away any reaction time or counterplay. League was supposed to be a game that was somewhat different than the standard reaction time based games like csgo or valorant, which require precise timing and aiming. Nowadays, league has devolved into this same category as well, your reaction times need to be very good in high elo to dodge or land skill shots. This wouldn't have happened if every skillshot didn't instantly take away 50% of your hp. In the past, it didn't used to be like this, which is why a lot of people loved this game a lot more. It was a bit slower than the current game state, but much more enjoyable and reactable.

[@m1r197]

As someone who plays those fast reaction games, this is absolutely true. I'm kind of aghast that a lot of the time in this game you die faster than if someone just running AK'd you in cs.

[@Aletonsi]

The problem of tank meta was non tank champs building full tank going toplane abusing at the time the tp meta taking ignite because of the champs that abused it didnt need that summoner spell. Those champs where mainly Ekko and Fizz, but there was also the infamous Hecarim top for listing a few. They all had the same build pattern those 3 tiank items and the game strat was just going forward with no counterplay.

[@MiaSkylar96]

The concept of role died in league, back in the day tanks didnt do damage, and if they did, they had ZERO mobility, now a nasus or a darius can outrun a sivir ulting (ive seen this) just with ghosy and item passives... I miss when support was a support role and not just being a pantheon who wards. The concept of role revolves around having a big advantage and a clear weakness, but in the current meta EVERYONE deals absurd amounts of damage, and riot just seems to buff this more and more. This season is probably the least enjoyable since i play in 2011 Damage + mobility need a BIG nerf in ALL roles

[@chemistral4943]

I do hope damage gets turn down a little bit, supports now have to be either tank or damage, enchanters are rarely seen in my games anymore. (Used to be an enchanter myself)

[@maxschnell3658]

i feel you, i´m tired of seeing senna for example

[@17Master]

But when enchanters are in a halfway decent spot, non-enchanter players collectively gather to screech so loudly that you'd think the soul of the universe itself was upset with the game state.

[@fabioviti7384]

​@@17Master Because enchanters are horrible, the games turn into a clock mission to stop the monster from scaling

[@seamusrichardson5601]

Not so sure about that one, I play mostly enchanter support at this point and they feel actually very good. Renata especially feels strong this season.

[@user-rk4ns7ku7e]

Renata is also wholly untraditional and plays closer to a tank. Play a game of Soraka and suffer for a while lol.

[@mythmage8231]

My biggest issue with the power creep in this game is the Marksman role. They're meant to be Attack Damage Carries, but everyone does just as much, if not MORE damage than Marksmen, at similar ranges (thanks to mobility spells reaching so far), faster, AND with more durability than Marksmen. There's a reason Marksmen build almost exclusively Lethality now, if they're even fielded at all. I'm OK with a somewhat high amount of damage across the board, but this is excessive, and it's equal across the classes and positions. If damage is going to be high, then make Burst Mages, Marksmen, and Assassins the only ones that can one-shot, melt, and execute anyone respectively.

[@realxandao]

I've seen to many times one tank, being the top DPS of the game at the same time being unkillable lol

[@DejaraUndead]

Back in the day Burst mages and Assassins WERE the only ones who could effectively one-shot, however that would only be if they landed everything and were drastically ahead of a squishy opponent. But that was meant to be their reward for playing well and getting that far ahead cause if they didn't then they would have to play neutral until that squishy target got to half or lower and was out of position to be able to get a kill. As for Marksmen, they were able to melt tanks as they were the best option to do so cause they had a tank to protect them, but as tanks became more irrelevant that's when Marksmen started to feel bad to play and the only way to have them stay relevant to the game was to crank up the amount of damage they could do in a shorter amount of time to what its like today making them into sudo-burst mages and sudo-assassins

[@pvshka]

Marksmen shouldn't be able to oneshot, they should be dealing steady over time damage, with options in their kit to stay alive, or chase the kill. If they misplay those options, they lay the price. League devs, sadly, have no idea how to design a good ADC, nor do they know how to design good core gameplay.

[@Solozocker]

@@realxandao to be fair even if a tank has highest damage at the end of the game a lot of it comes from the fact that they stay in fights much longer than most mages or marksman and especialy if they are fighting another tank the damage can get extremly inflated very quickly since it is 2 meatballs hitting each other for 20 seconds which also let's them heal during that fight (high health regen grasp etc). That isn't meant to say that some tanks don't do a lot of damage (mundo or sion beeing the ones i think off first) but a lot of their threat still comes from them ccing you and killing you over the next 5-10 seconds while sticking to you

[@lachsthesalmon1441]

agreed, marksmen as a class need a rebalance/rework, i am fine with the other classes having as much damage as right now, but marksmen are way too squishy for how much damage they actually deal and how much effective range they have, with everyone except them having a dash.

[@NocturnalPyro]

No shit, they buff every characters defensive stats in one patch, and because assassins complain that they can't oneshot everyone anymore they start nerfing the resistance on literally every item while also buffing the damage that every character can do. They literally did the whole durability update only to start buffing damage and nerfing durability in the next patch.

[@MangaGamified]

theyre just rotating what's OP whats not just to say they have new updates. they'll make ADC's 2 shot again, then nerf that then buff tank items, then tank meta comes, then nerf that again, and buff damage items, repeat.

[@poetryflynn3712]

@@MangaGamified Yeah, Riot wanted to systematize league, and they've done it. It's all a cycle. The game has never had a solid vision for what it wanted to be, and that's the problem. All they do is just do whatever is immediately popular regardless of if it's their fault or not if it's popular. The real vision they've had for the game since season 6-7 is that they wanted to move the game away from being strategic and more towards being a fighting game where you can play any champion you want in any lane or role. I genuinely feel the current meta is exactly how they want it because it's the easier for new players to learn and less reliant on your team. That's combined with the fact games are significantly shorter which they have continually tried to do even with community backlash. It's time to move on from Lol. Go to something like Dota if you want a true MOBA.

[@MangaGamified]

@@poetryflynn3712 True, I heard someone said something so I'll just copy it, he said that League was out-play philosophy in contrast to Dota 2's counter-play philisophy, but the problem is when a champ gets a buff say 69 damage, in League langauge that damage is big weather it's an ability or passive, but in Dota 2 it still depends cause there are BKB, euls, Manta. linkens, butterfly(evasion) and some characters there have evasion or damage block, Their blademail even has an active to reflect all and any type of damage for a short while, so anyone can use their buff against them. Also there's some champs that can only be hard countered by other champs and not items, but is balanced based on their gimmick, but the problem arises when no one always wants to pick it's hard counter. While Dota 2 also has 'hard counters' but it's few and far in between usually "Pierces magic-immunity" in League language it means it affects even CC immune, which idk how League would ever code. Not saying I'm a die hard loyal Dota 2 fan either, even I don't like everything in it like the turn-rate a bit. The fog of war is a bit love/hate relationship. Well, this is my worldview, I can imagine someone was absolutely convinced with League's game philosophy or something but idc lol

[@nathancourtney94]

I think this is the actual problem. Assassins are fundamentally a strategy that SHOULD NOT work other than against bad team comps. Every time they attempt to roll Damage back they revert it because it makes assassins lose super heavily. I just stopped playing when I noticed that everything is just biased towards assassins. It’s not skillful to play in a way assuming all damage is lethal. It’s just reinforces uncharitable heuristics, WHICH BTW is the same phenomenon of toxicity.

[@tri3sweat]

> any champion in any lane or role i dont really believe this as someone who plays dota AND league, dota is way more lenient on what characters play in each role, considering the playerbase’s hate for anything non traditional in league (ranged top laners, adc mids), and riots repeated nerfing of roles (rell jungle being removed and other similar things), while in DOTA you have earthshaker being viable in four positions, and nature’s prophet in five

[@supermarty564]

I get why, cause it is annoying but it just feels bad as a tank main to build full tank but somehow still get melted.

[@Ceracio]

I agree entirely. Tank used to be "can't kill anyone in under 30 seconds but also takes about the same time for 5 people to kill". Now it's "survive 1.5 secs longer than the adc in the same circumstance, but now you get to one-shot a squishy on your way out".

[@TheAngelRaven]

I rather have a Tank Meta than a Damage Meta because Riot will ALWAYS push Anti-Tank into champion kits even if they champ doesn't need it, along with ensuring there are items meant to deal with Tanks. I'm a Tank main and it absolutely SUCKS being melted even with full build.

[@mechanicalsilence1]

The problem being champions like mundo who can just walk into 5 people, ghost and kill the adc while tanking about 15 000 damages, they need to rethink some champions if they want tank items to be stronger because those who's damages scale with armor/hp will be completely broken.

[@ravenoushydra7948]

@@mechanicalsilence1ok so just get rid of philosophy that everyone needs to be able to do high dmg even if they dont build damage items. easy. then its fine for tank to be tanky.

[@MrXaturn]

Defenses are so ineffective now. The only champs with the potential to feel unkillable are skirmishers with high sustain and high mobility

[@Airmez]

If tanks were actually viable we wouldn't be having this problem. Building lethality and flat magic penetration is the worst possible thing you could do against a tank, yet every champion is building these stats to deal as much damage as possible to squishy champions and there is essentially no tradeoff because there are no tanks in any games.

[@The_Schmizz]

part of that is nobody wants to play the tank because then they can't hyper 1v9 every game.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Tanks are viable nobody are playing them big difference

[@PowerEd8]

I kove being a frontline, I play a lot of Juggernauts, eg . Sett - even if i lose lane, i can still "Tank" I play Sejuani jungle, doesn't matter how much i'm invaded, my cc and frontline prowess don't leave, I wish dmg was toned down, also tone down the dmg of tanks - i want to be tanky again, where i don't die in 1 sec while building full tank

[@aaronscott7467]

On the contrary, flat pen is just another stat. One that exists on so many different items that are otherwise good anyways

[@aaronscott7467]

@@PowerEd8 I just want a meta where warmog's is a viable item again

[@GargingoMan]

I wish they did tank-busting in more interesting ways. A weakness of a champion can be that they struggle to kill champs that build full tank, or having abilities which instead of dealing true damage max health percentage deal bonus damage to enemies over armour thresholds, it's not perfect but at least squishies may live a bit longer

[@NoTengoStand]

Or conditional effects that only trigger on targets with more max hp than you, so your tank busting items aren't effective against damage dealing classes.

[@galactick3816]

Also, would be best if the tank busting only worked on mages and ADCs

[@apolloboeckmann6591]

Make anti tank only work on bonus stats except base true damage that doesn’t scale

[@llllSNEAKllll]

The durability update was a good step to help increase the overall time-to-kill, but back then i knew it wouldn't do anything impactful since most of the changes were on a per level scaling and only like +50 to everyone's base health; that makes it so that the team that is ahead will have more durability then the team that is behind, which leaves no significant change to snowballing or to the 5-damage dealer teams. They did change some character's percent health damage to accommodate for it, but i can't remember the meta being changed at all.

[@baptistecochennec5956]

Ah yeah you didn't noticed the change in meta when everyone and their mothers started to play hyperscaling champ?

[@765craven4]

I legit feel this so much. I literally had 341 armor on Shen in a game yesterday and was still taking over 600 damage from a crit from a Caitlyn. Not even a headshot. I have almost 350 armor why does the ADC kill me in 6 auto attacks?

[@metrux321]

I feel this SO bad... A week ago I had a great start on a Zac game, got first blood solo, 3/0/4 on 10mins, and then I tp bot to help my dying adc. Welp, a lucian with dead sup can still kill me in 10secs while I build full tank, while he was 2/2 with half my farm. How does that makes sense? But I guess the thing is even we, as tanks, do too much damage, so upping our defence won't help to balance. They'd need to nerf ALL damage equally, and that would mean nerfing passives from champions that sell skins...

[@765craven4]

@@metrux321 Yeah. It sucks. Tanks nowadays feel less like tanks and more like higher cc bruisers with way longer CDs

[@Tiagocf2]

Tanks are useless nowadays... people say that ADCs are bad because they are team reliant, but Tanks cant do literally nothing without a team to back they up, you cant tank, you do no damage so you cant solokill anyone, your only hope is to be a CC bot so your team can get pick offs

[@peterhoemke2994]

Armor and magic resistance have an asymptote, meaning they become less useful the more you get. Going from 30 armor to 100 armor (natural growth for all champions simply by leveling to 18) means going from 23% damage reduction to 50% damage reduction, but going from 100 armor to 250 armor means 50% damage reduction to 71.5% damage reduction. If you build no tank you passively get 27% increased damage reduction, but build total tank and you only get 21.5% more damage reduction than that. Because of resistance growths, there is little difference (in defense) from assassins and tanks. Currently, HP and lifesteal/mega-healing are the greatest tank values. Simple fix to all of it: reduce damage output by 40% AND remove armor and magic resistance growths. That is all, quite literally, that is needed to stop the burst problem and ensure there is no special tank meta.

[@765craven4]

@@peterhoemke2994 I'm aware of how the diminishing returns on resistances work. Having over 70% physical damage negation and still taking over 600 per basic attack from a champion doing pure physical damage is absolutely insane. Tank shred, especially on ADCs, scales way too hard imo for it to be reasonable. LDR with 2 other items for its stats and passive to benefit from it already makes any amount of tank stats feel more or less irrelevant. At the same time I understand that until they have enough items for their build to scale ADCs tend to struggle with tanks, but it still feels like shit. Natural resistance growth is somewhat necessary for levelling to feel meaningful stat-wise beyond your ability levels, especially for Mages, since they don't get AP per level. Champions with higher Base AD and Attack Speed growth would be significantly stronger if resistances per level were thrown away. I think the core of the issue is that tanks don't scale well due both to damage being too high (tank shred items being too efficient is part of this) and their items not doing enough to mitigate damage. Almost every tank item gives damage in some way, and the few that have passives designed to improve durability tend to not do it effectively enough.

[@ShadowSlith789]

ever since runes reforged damage has been insane. Ask any adc main, front to back teamfights dont exist anymore its just one shot or get one shot

[@SeitanTech]

Champions like Akali, Ekko, LeBlanc, and Fizz should simply not exist. They have enough health and utility to survive multiple seconds of focused damage, but can also, quite literally, one shot 3/5 people on the enemy team while doing it.

[@ravenoushydra7948]

It was different back in early seasons where base cooldowns were high and ability haste was harder/more expensive to get. Nowadays it feels like urf after 1 item. Every class has ability haste shoved onto 99% of items for some reason. And mana used to be a big problem before now its like a pre 6 issue.

[@1BitcoinBeliever]

Agree on Akali, she can buy way too much time for a game where tanks cant even last as long as her shroud in a teamfight.

[@Ceracio]

I used to play Fizz way back. He was a fun champion to play because you had pretty insane early damage and an escape tool, but if you misused it you were a sitting duck because you had like 18 seconds cooldown on it. You also had to max W in order to deal enough damage to kill people, so you only started getting a lower cd on E after level 9. Now you can just max E and goomba-stomp everyone every 4 seconds while dealing more damage than if you maxxed W...

[@HeyItsKesh]

Ability haste is absolutely an issue

[@thomassteen8317]

Season 6 tank meta was way more fun than what league is today

[@lachsthesalmon1441]

nah its def more fun to just oneshot an entire team with one r, than to outheal all of their dmg

[@CoqueiroLendario]

I started playing around season 5, i lived the "dreaded" tank meta but in all honestly, it wasn't that bad. back then i thought champs like yasuo and pre-rework irelia were too strong and nowadays i have to fight stuff like post rework irelia and yasuo's stronger brother.

[@AbdoHany9]

If you’re a grandma then yes it was more fun

[@eonarose]

Season 11 tank meta was even worse because actual tanks started doing tons of damage too. Amumu was a menace.

[@MrLP3xp3rt]

season 3 my guy was the true best season!

[@larsonsmith2792]

I see one exeption to the rule: Vayne That MF adc builds 2 AS ítems and boots and then 3 tank ítems WTF! That thing has 3700 HP 2.8 AS 150Armor and 120 Mr with a god tier janna or rell support

[@AngelosDeNotitia]

some how i still saw my friend get one shotted by rengar with 3 tanks items on vayne and i meant literally one shot , he was at full health and just disappeared from existence in less than a second

[@goatnoodles9162]

they could simply "fix" her by giving her the fiora true damage scales with ad thing

[@ignacioperez5479]

@@goatnoodles9162 fiora have some counterplay since she must hit an specific point. Vayne doesnt

[@Terrordragonfly]

​@@goatnoodles9162scaling max health true damage is the worst thing you can do. Fiora is a great example Fiora in lategame can deal more then 100% max health true DMG pretty easy and since her ult spawns 4 vitals and her skillset allows her to hit vitals and chase very easily she becomes a champ that has quite literally no way to play against her anymore

[@larsonsmith2792]

@@AngelosDeNotitia Yep renegar stuff

[@Tiagocf2]

Riot: makes a champion with high base damage * Said champion starts building Tanky to abuse base stats * Riot: welp lets nerf everything tank to oblivion Tank meta wasnt even that bad, what's the problem with Ekko building more tanky other than that's not what riot overlords wants? if he was too strong a simple nerf to base damage would do it. Also there was less defensive items in couterpart of having less anti-tank options. And those anti-tank options were good despise of Vars said. Void staff stil gave you 40% pen, Dominik still gave you 35% pen, Black Cleaver still gave you 35% armor shred, but they seem bad due to how inflated current items are, BotRK is the best example, this item does so much it's insane, no wonder why it is core on a lot of champions despise being a anti-tank item (in theory) Riot is sowing what they planted, this is the direction they want the game to go, and they will drag us even further with then thats for sure

[@raindropsr9892]

Clever to talk about power creep while having Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel OST in the background lol

[@DraphEnjoyer]

League has a damage problem League had a client problem League has a root kernal anti cheat problem League has a boosting problem League has a basic graphic design problem League has....

[@alexcat6685]

SKINS![brought to you by the handsome executives at riot games]

[@gzmarcatto]

​@@alexcat6685 Skins which I cannot differentiate one champion from another

[@ldalexandrite]

If this game was to came out in it’s current state right now, people would literally shiiiiittttt on it. The game is horrid, just too big to fail rn.

[@Brayan.Jheyson]

I'm a master mono poppy, and I must say that she is barely a tank anymore. I play her a lot more like a bruiser(with some bruiser items like shojin, black clever or sundered sky being great choices depending on matchups) than a tank. One thing I've noticed and you kinda forgot to talk about is: there are, actually, five ways to tank in league of legends. The first is to avoid taking damage: speed is a huge factor in today's game, many champions can take ghost or dash and scape from the fight, and that feels like a good skill expression in the game, so people normally aren't mad at it. The second is to take the damage and reduce it. This is a very affected one, as the whole building tank when there's true damage max health in the enemy team makes it obsolete. The third ir to sustain. A huge part of the meta last season on top lane had two bruisers with sustain items such divine sunderer that could keep them fighting for longer than if they had tank items. The fourth option is to use defensive skills to tank. Shields from supports and enchanters, abilities like Gwen's W or Xin Zhao ult, Fiora's Riposte, Zhonyas, yasuo's windwall and so on are considered very frustrating to play against, and they can alter fights in a way that people feel like they are punished for trying. The last and most important is: tanking with CC. great tanks in meta are the ones that can stop the enemy from dealing damage for as long as they can, and CC is the most reliable way to deal with that at the moment. This is actually the only way to tank that is basically guaranteed to help you survive. The problem is... Which is the most effective CC you can apply in an opponent? killing him! So, to avoid taking damage, the best strategy often is to kill the other team DPS ASAP.

[@Rabbit-o-witz]

God I remember when games lasted 30 minutes. Every match had a certain epicness to it, everyone giving it all on the 30, 40 minute mark, everyone at full build... pretty cool those times

[@lachsthesalmon1441]

i like having the time to play a match without commiting an entire hour to the task

[@metrux321]

@@lachsthesalmon1441 Well, that's what twisted treeline was for :D But since games got so fast, there was no need to have a fast mode anymore...

[@Tiagocf2]

@@lachsthesalmon1441 let's be real, do you really play 1 game? sure a game now last at most 30min but we all know you play at least 5 of those in a sequence anyways

[@lachsthesalmon1441]

@@Tiagocf2 i actually dont, that would be way too tiring. i play three games in a row at most and that is not that often

[@ignaciorodriguezcorzon6737]

@@lachsthesalmon1441 stop playing mobas then lmao. cod is more suittable for you my friend

[@cothatguy4707]

The insane amounts of damage and how quick it feels is the reason ive stopped playing over the last couple months, im an adc main so i appreciate i should be killed fast and do shit tones of damage. but when i see the whole team no matter how far behind (including some tanks) just straight up 100 to 0 me. ofc skill issue ik that but it feels excessive. maybe just me tho

[@metrux321]

Nah, I agree. We used to have classes, now they are just... Sugestions. Everyone does too much damage, and even tanks can't tank much. I mean, sure, they last double or triple the adc, so 10~20 seconds? Everyone one shots and everyone gets one shot, your best bet is mobility because if you don't get hit, you don't die.

[@Tiagocf2]

@@metrux321 most times you last less than 10s as a tank, there's too much % hp damage nowadays

[@kraftyevan]

I genuinely think the big issue is that Phreak and his balance team CANNOT FATHOM a different way to buff rather than damage. When was the last time we've seen a creative ability shift? Midscopes have disappeared sadly. Items are more damage centric once again. LIke Riot refuses to be experimental and creative with balance.

[@poom323]

Fix the bug ❌ Buff damage ✅

[@ahsson3472]

Hot take, in my oppinion items should be class locked, tanks going ap/ad marksmen going assasin items and such is in one way good for build diversity BUT to me it just makes the game loose all of the intent with the characters. Cause now everyone can oneshot anyone unless they are fed tanks and if they are you need to 5v1 them to kill them unless you have max hp damage buildt in. Also League has a massive cc problem in my oppinion aswell, it feels like everyone has some form of cc and if they dont they have enough mobility to the point where catching them is impossible. Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[@skullruss]

Can we just REMOVE Zhonya's Hourglass from the game completely?? Zhonya's is a huge part of the shithole arms race of damage, where characters that kill you in .01s complain that they had to wait a few seconds to do it again (their abilities are back up btw). Then just HALVE the damage in the game across the board; a fight that took 10 seconds can take 20, now you can make a mistake and not INSTALOSE the game, because you got killed once, missed two waves otw back to lane and your opponent has their spike at 15 minutes so you can't walk up anymore.

[@ravenoushydra7948]

Yeah this

[@ravenoushydra7948]

@mandoole Nah

[@frankieoliveras1271]

I don’t want longer games people just start to tilt and quit the second they fall behind

[@gengar618]

I stopped playing the game because for the most part if you aren’t being extra aggro and rushing people down, you fall behind. There’s almost no such thing as being a slow methodical player anymore.

[@AYAKXSHI]

This is gaming in general now unless the game is “realistic”

[@abelmejia699]

You know, I think there is a market for a detailed and comprehensive video about the perspectives and changes that have contributed to the shift from tank meta to damage meta. It's pretty interesting to think about how changes to the game's systems have created a shift from baron being scary to baron being easy to take. When did that happen?

[@alexursu4403]

So it wasn't a tank meta. It was assasin meta where their base numbers were so overtuned they could go full tank. In other words, Sunfire Diana before Sunfire Diana.

[@Tiagocf2]

every "tank meta" was like that

[@chillmadude]

no, tank items were just so efficient that going full tank on these assassin's was just far more optimal than going full damage

[@alexursu4403]

@@chillmadude So assassins were overloaded. Since otherwise everything, assassin or not, would've ONLY built tank items.

[@shikikankillzone4239]

That would mean the times bruiser items were so OP that even tanks had to build them, was a tank meta. If that's the case, we've never had a support/ardent meta, and it was instead mid meta because the mage also build it

[@briargray2355]

My beef is that a tank can walk up to me and 2-tap me. Like we have classes for a reason and a tank should not be as capable of one-shotting a squishy. Last example I can think of is when I was playing Heimerdinger into a malphite. The malphite built full MR, so it made sense that I could do no damage to him. I'm not mad mad about that. Tank builds full MR against my magic damage specialist and I can't do damage. Makes sense. What didn't make sense was his ability to kill me with one rotation of his abilities when we were the same level and he was built full MR as a champ who doesn't scale on MR at all. That I am salty about. Tanks should not be able to one-shot. There is classes for that.

[@bobyhappy2992]

damage should NEVER scale on defensive stats in a pvp game

[@Sebastian-oz1lj]

in tank meta you need to think what you are doing i mean in lane state trades are way more meaningfull as you slowly gain advantage by little better plays over your enemy. in oneshot meta nothing matters as you well kill anyone on combo and bounce waves without thinking

[@nicklasveva]

What's worse? "I can't kill him!" or "I can't walk 300 units out of the base without dying to AP Alistar in 0.2 seconds"

[@DandiIion]

Even the tanks build damage now. Voli, Galio, Garen, Malphite, Gragas, Zac, Nunu, Singed all build damage now, tanks are gonna go extinct. 😢

[@Baummaster]

I feel like this video had no identity. You talked about everything and every moment. Kinda lost track, couldn't find a red line but beautiful music and cut

[@azizabdul8914]

People scared off the Tank Meta when the actual tanks themselves aren't even that good.

[@Tiagocf2]

Tank meta = Ekko building tank and outclassing them

[@azizabdul8914]

@@Tiagocf2 yeah, but for some reason people still think Tanks are to blame. If you slap those tank items on the actual tanks, you realize soon that they still weren't that good even during that point.

[@krystians2016]

lethality now 110+ lethality+ 32-37% armor pen sounds FINE so when you have 200 armor and there is assasin with full build you can easly have less then 20 armor hmmm so even if you have like 3.5k hp you get oneshoted even 4k hp is basicly nothing

[@Helix6992]

The right thing to do would be to make the % penetration from LDR only affect the bonus armor. That would make the item anti-tank only, making the assassins choose: do they want to waste an item slot with item that is utterly useless against squishies, or would they rather focus on more lethality but deal no damage to tanks?

[@djlore2699]

Honest question: why hasn’t riot restricted items to current champions/classes? They already this somewhat with restricting item combinations. This might “restrict” item builds, but most people are already building the same items in the game. The only time people started building different items is when the item was very strong, like AD Leblanc or tank Kat. By restricting items riot can actually give classes like adc stronger items without having to worry about other classes abusing the newly buffed items.

[@maxschnell3658]

i would give you a 1000 likes if i could, i think it was even worse with draktharr still in the game, but collector for example comes to mind immediatly

[@pvshka]

If you have to restrict items for certain champions, just delete your entire game and start anew.

[@InternetMonster1]

The Overwatch experience.

[@punklingyt]

Vars subtly hinting with the music at his upcoming Vars 4 channel where he talks about Yu-Gi-Oh card design. Ngl I'd be here for it

[@DarkDodgers]

It does have a damage problem. The problem is that I DO NO DAMAGE TO THE ENEMY TEAMF OR SOME REASON BUT EVERYONE ONE SHOTS ME!

[@V1nnF0gg]

Indeed lmao, had a garen in the last match dealing 50% of the squishies health with one Q (he was building trinity, sterak and the only defensive item was mercs) while tanking my whole kit (I had blighting jewel)

[@Inuyashapupped]

@@V1nnF0gg he had no mr to speak of, blighting jewel is barely any magic% to begin with, you should have a %health item like liandrys instead

[@SoulHydron]

​@@Inuyashapuppedhe was prob just giga fed

[@igoralbuquerque7251]

As a monoGP I feel it. I remember that in the past the trades were longer by exploding the barrel 3 times on the enemy and applying 3 or 4 times the passive to him. We make trinity and sterak (had a passive that incrase base atk). Now I oneshot the enemy with one barrel. If not, he oneshot me.

[@Acrimonie]

All my homies hates tank metas

[@JLCBubba]

A big damage nerf does need to happen, but it also needs to be coupled with a big nerf to healing and sustain to prevent certain Champs being basically immortal (saw this a bit after the Durability patch, Champs like Darius were basically unkillable because he healed for a million every Q even with Wounds on him, and there was no longer the huge burst to insta-pop him). I'd also like to see a comparison between AP damage output and AD output, because it feels like with just a Rookern, an enemy AP user feels pretty useless, whereas you can build 2-3 Tank items with Armor and still get chewed to pieces like you don't exist by a Lethality user.

[@imitfdx9632]

Master duel music goes crazy😂

[@silversimon7049]

Reset or not, one better things riot should do is nerfing thedamage of champions. They could touch items, rework them, adding durability (was a good initially but then become worst) but the problem is still there. Tank meta affects other classes never tanks, just remember on season 12 diana-yi with sunfire. Sure some items are truly overtuned (like sunder sky).

[@deejayf69]

"Everyone can one-shot regardless of class" *cries in ADC*

[@OldUsk]

Problem is 100% percentage damage. No matter if your a tank or not that 5% damage is 5% wether your a squishy champ or tank. Tanks dont really benifit from building none tank. A lot of tank champs have hp or armor scaling in their kits like rammus galio etc. So now you have bunches of bruisers all the way down the chain having hyper damage items cough more fucken assasin items. As a kled main i feel it rough. My passive is pretty much useless

[@Blu_Moon_Owl]

Yet in some games for me, it feels like tank still can’t die because I do so little damage

[@sanzyboy3952]

Master duel ost sounds so fitting considering that every deck nowdays has to run the same 8 cards in their decks in master duel just like everyone needs to do damage in league and how normalised it is that no one is complaining

[@gastoncastellano3361]

as a tank main i think a good Tank item would be one that five flad damage reduction recived AND DEALT, so you dont blow up, but cant oneshot.

[@LG555]

Sounds a bit like the old Gargoyles passive

[@bradonhassell5567]

I’ve been a Shen main for 4 years. I think it’s complete bullshit I can hop on the enemy Kai’Sa and one shot her with empowered Q, ignite, and titanic hydra. As fun as it is, I play Shen for the utility, for the satisfaction of helping my team. Tanks have been forced into a spot where they need to do damage. The fact I am one shotting the enemy adc as fast as my Talon is ridiculous. On the flip side, as a 5.5k health tank with 200+ resistances, I’m dying virtually as fast as my adc. Also ridiculous.

[@gastoncastellano3361]

@@bradonhassell5567 im a Shen OTP too XD .

[@daleodorito]

Tanks being unkilleable is not an issue, that's what they are meant to do. The issue is them being able to be unkilleable and at the same time killing people on their own building full tank. Now going full tank is just stupid, cause you commit your whole build to take more damage, but the enemies can counter that with 1 item, item that they were gonna build anyways even if no tanks were in the game, cause antitank items are just good in general and not only agaisnt tanks. No damage dealer should ever be able to kill a tank on their own, cause they need someone else to keep it there so they can dps and no tank should be able to kill a damage dealer, cause they just shouldn't have the damage to do it even if they can cc them for a while. Both of them should just be able to reatrear eventually with no kill awarded to any of them. But no, the damage is so high that tanks can burst squishies (and even other tanks wtf?), and damage dealers, even freaking burst assasins that should do nothing to tanks can burst a 6 tank items guy in 3 secs. Adc was never a thing in this game cause dps is just not a thing in this game, just burst is. Dps is only relevant when it becomes so stupidly high that it just becomes high cadence burst. Everything is so wrong in this game...

[@nibras69]

0 VIEWS IN 40 seconds, FELL OFF

[@grimkahn3775]

Yugioh masterduel soundtrack activated my fight or flight response.

[@kinslet21]

"Adc can melt everyone" Are we playing the same game?

[@stalinjustafellowrussianco7440]

Depends on the adc I have been 2 shot by an mf I have been half healed by a Draven I have died in 2s to twitch ult

[@stalinjustafellowrussianco7440]

I hate typing on my phone

[@bullettime1116]

Depends on the adc, and if you are good at adc as well

[@giovannicampostrini6309]

well hyper-carries cna still do it, but there is the point about they building tank items after the bork and guinso

[@giovannicampostrini6309]

@@bullettime1116 exactly, the adc do damage, but they need to be played very well or had a good peel support, otherwise they get one shoted and it looks like they don't do any damage

[@AuraAmile]

They need to do a huge patch where they adjust all damage on champions,. their scaling not just base damage. they need to reduce tanks damage to make up for becoming tankier as a whole by everyone becoming weaker. Items need to give less damage, Less armor pen and true damage on champions, but riot will never do that cause ego and fast games....

[@meihara9415]

Damage? What damage? Couldnt put a dent in the overfed 9k hp mundo last time I played as adc. He twoshot me tho..

[@bullettime1116]

As a gwen main, we eat mundos for breakfast at every stage of the game regardless of his or our items

[@einjharrelraca]

You're first mistake was playing an adc in 2024 man. You are litterally just there to be bait at this point.

[@AlMeZero]

The damage was right there. Just that you were the one taking it instead.

[@Mysteryspy]

idk man, I am a chogath 1 trick and I get SHREDDED by anyone who builds bork+kraken+lord doms. If the tank is a problem, build anti-tank items. And fight with your team for godsake, your role is not to 1v1 a 9k hp mundo.

[@dannylight7022]

sorry but that kinda pathetic from you, so many broken adc champs and you cant fight THE WORST TANK IN THE GAME? Lear to kite and shred him with unfair items, adc players are such babies its annoying at this point... Mundo loses to everyone and you still complain....

[@ethanm2926]

Now I will say I am a tank main, chogath sion ornn my beloved, So I know I'm very biased But even when I play bruisers or other Champs I honestly love longer games just for the fact it feels like I actually get to engage with the item system and get to 4 items and craft a build. Whereas now it feels like if you do not have you build spike at 2 items what's the point. I definitely agree that while tank meta wasn't great, the sheer amount of tank shredding and damage creep is ridiculous, my man chogath I've been wanting a defensive buff for years and all he has gotten around a couple damage increases, like that's the issue Mr tank man doesn't do enough damage. And now you have Champs building tank items that werent supposed to because their damage is high enough but they lack any and all durability bc everyone else's damage is too high, so the tank item poaching is still there.

[@lol24q]

there's no problem with the current meta everyone just likes to complain

[@MarianaBello-fq3hx]

It's a good meta compared to most of the BS i've experienced since 2015? Probaly it has no flaws? You're daydreaming.

[@lol24q]

It’s not perfect but id like to hear your flaws

[@jonahallcorn]

Glares suspiciously at possible assassin main.

[@lol24q]

@@jonahallcorn I play adc and I don’t see what the complaints are about

[@Stanzbey69]

@@jonahallcorn remember when qiyana couldn’t even oneshot an adc with a full combo in season 13? Yea, that was way worse than assassins literally fulfilling their purpose in season 14

[@ChassyKim]

Wow I remember watching your maple story videos … your guides were top notch . Congrats on transitioning to league ! Time flies man

[@nibras69]

First

[@willtollefson4746]

The biggest solution to "tank meta" is to simply not allow certain classes to build tank items. Force assassins to be squishy, or give their items resistances in exchange for damage. Every single assassin should be "one shot or get one shot", and tanks should be able to directly counter assassins simply by them being able to eat the one shot and win the fight by attrition instead of their own large damage numbers. We are getting to the point where this is like overwatch, where tanks are getting curbed stomped again and again because they dont have the effective health pool to properly TANK damage. And the only way to make tank items actually balanced is ensure characters and classes who abuse tank items simply cant anymore.

[@lukiopool7120]

4:37 while zoe does technically do true damage, the fact it is post mitigation true damage probably shouldnt be understated, she's arguably the only one on the list that doesn't fit. To clarify, zoe E's detonation/ wakeup damage calculates its damage from the damage dealt MR/ armour has been applied, its designed so that resistances do not apply twice to the effect. It should be noted while asleep the enemy DOES lose a percentage of their MR, which could be argued as assisting in the anti-tank narrative, but the true damage itself does not

[@zepol1000]

One thing I dislike because of this damage creep and earlier power spikes is also the fact that there's very few truly bad early game amazing late game champions and even those who are like that are far from what they used to be. Back in the day, champions like Yasou or Irelia were genuinely weak because they would be amazing in the mid and late game. Today, their early game disadvantage is all but gone and their lategame is also neutered because everyone is powerful always. I miss the hyper scalers and genuinely weak early game characters, but it'd be impossible in such a fast paced game as todays league, you give up too much being as weak as some were early long ago.

[@Nightmare-fe9hr]

tanks haven't been tanks in a long time...

[@ridori7376]

This is just one small part but I think lethality is just kind of broken as a concept. Sure in theory it should help AD assasins burst enemies quicker which is their job, but the thing is... EVERYONE WANTS TO KILL QUICKER. Everyone who has big AD damage benefits from lethality to some degree. So you have things like Aatrox building full lethality, missing 5 Qs in a row and then deleting half your HP with the 6th + passive basic attack. And what's the downside compared to more "bruiser" items? You get less health? Who cares, everyone has %max health damage anyways!

[@neradavashta5117]

Tbh i don't really agree, sounds like more of an adc point of view who misses the time where late game was determined on adc only. Longer games would make mainly adc shine and I'd say that adc are in a nice spot rn, adc champ have a much higher playrate than any other role but most suffer in the mid game b4 getting their 3rd item. The only reason ppl say adc are weak is bc they can't do much on their own but they're op if the team plays around them. I'm pretty sure any overall dmg nerf would mostly benefit adcs and I think it would be unhealthy for the game.

[@gtagusta]

6:11, mordekaiser also steals a bunch of stats on his ult, which works similar to pen, since its stat reduction, and its also % max health dmg, since it steals health, and his passive does % max health dmg

[@shikoauthizta3938]

Im one of the guys that has been complaining about damage for soo long, but well, big numbers and people going boom is what attracts new people, which are the target

[@salihnu]

My biggest issue with the current state of the league is, that you don't have options anymore. In earlier seasons you could counter champions and team comps with smart itemization, and now I am under the impression anything but damage is wrong because even if you go full tank, you will die almost as fast unless you are one of the few outliers champions or extremely ahead. I also don't like that with champions who can kill you in 0.Xs we have chain cc in the game that can stun you for more than 3s, or just one lucky morgana bind. With that much dmg, cc becomes so brutally punishing.

[@Tiagocf2]

My strongest point as a player is that i'm good at making builds, and let me say, there's virtually no counter building anymore. Just going full damage is at most times the best option

[@zileantimekeeper7464]

I have seen tanks get hit with 60% true damage. At that point there not a tank i have seen full tanks with no damage items just pop because they get hit with so much true damage that it makes hlaf the items they got useless. 60% true damege is a joke and shouldn't be a thing.

[@megadumbo6]

can we also talk about CC, literally every champs cc gets buffed over the seasons and all tenacity sources are removed or nerfed to the ground

[@ЮрийКривошея]

Well... compere with prev seasons the CC duration is lower then ever. The problem is how much dmg is dealt under that CC, and how easy it is to low your cd, so evry one can cc spam and its rly easy to chain cc

[@pagaans9786]

this is why i really loved and still love the ingenious hunter gimick builds, that are built around getting a lot of shields from fimbulwinter and eclipse as frequent as possible, sometimes throwing in healing from sundered sky or unending despair. Somehow it actually works better than building just straight resistances or health, which doesn't really make sense but oh well

[@adamxue6096]

Mfw I just closed Master Duel OST and started hearing it immediately again after opening this video and almost got paranoid as I couldn't find where I had left the OST still playing

[@zachtemoro2116]

The funniest thing is even Riot doesn’t know what they want. They propped up Bruiser Briar and have now nerfed her and all her items to the point that she is gonna be assassin again

[@yulian545]

They started nerfing her cuz players found that Lethality oneshots enemy plus she is not dying

[@zachtemoro2116]

@@yulian545 yeah, I completely 100% understand that … but every single nerf they did back then only hurt Bruiser and Lethality/Assassin Briar went unchanged essentially. They then gave her a mini rework to work better with Hp scaling and she was in a good spot, but again started nerfing her, and AGAIN almost all the changes hurt Bruiser more than Assassin Briar. Most Briars you’ll talk to will have admitted to her being overtunned but when you balance a champ for Low Elo you’re setting yourself up for failure. Let her be a perma ban for scrubs but don’t kill a champ, making her unplayable at high elo like they’ve currently done (Or … y’know … nerf lethality items A LONG side overtunned Bruiser items? Kled and Attrox’s Assassin builds should not vastly outperform their intended Sustain Bruiser builds. Its an item problem not a champ problem, but Riot wants to pretend the sustain meta is better than the oneshot Meta which is absolutely the most boring, little to 0 counterplay meta that most games avoid).