Fatal Plane Crash at Oshkosh AirVenture Opening Day | Airport Shut Down

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[@VASAviation]

Tragic opening day for EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2024. Waiting for further information to be released by official sources on the possible cause of the accident. Leave your condolences here.

[@dukeofrodtown1705]

My deepest condolences to the victims and their loved ones. I can't believe it was only opening day of Oshkosh

[@Boodieman72]

There were 2 fatalities in the aircraft, no one on the ground was hurt as the aircraft went down in a field.

[@suzieb8366]

RIP Flyers, may you sleep with angels. Strength and prayers to those affected by this trauma.

[@androidphone1901]

RIP Pilot. 😢 I offer my condolences to the family. All of us pilots are thinking about you.

[@darkmoone9984]

RIP flyers

[@akidshistoryandaviation]

Just to clarify for those who are confused, the airshow has not been cancelled at this time, just many arrivals on the first day

[@firewalker1372]

I was gonna say, I checked flight24 just a little while ago and there are several flights coming into Oshkosh including a warbird from Canada. Also seen a couple stunt planes doing their thing around the airport.

[@akidshistoryandaviation]

@firewalker1372 yes I also saw that beautiful Canadian avro Lancaster coming in to land. It seems like things are going to continue as normal if the weather stays good.

[@VASAviation]

Seems like EAA will continue. It shut down for some time after the accident

[@robd3747]

It's Oshkosh. Crashes happen. Unfortunate whenever there is a loss of life. Stay safe everybody.

[@firewalker1372]

@@akidshistoryandaviation As soon as I got the alert, had to click on it. She is a beautiful bird.

[@josh3771]

Top effort from ATC managing the situation and event. Very glad to see the controllers so proactive in their communications.

[@adamlannerd1408]

ATC are 90% of the reason every year.

[@ChicagoAirportSpotter]

@@josh3771 It was a controller that died in the crash as well, unfortunately. Former LAX controller currently in Philly.

[@IslandSimPilot]

I would say the opposite; allowing two jets to do multiple low passes while literally 10,000 airplanes are trying to land is utterly absurd. "L-39 flight of two, request multiple low passes over 36." "Are you effing kidding? Get out of here and don't come back."

[@ace00007]

@@IslandSimPilot Quite routine there during Airventure. Yes it sounds chaotic but these are the best controllers in the world and they do a great job.

[@consortiumxf]

@@ChicagoAirportSpotter ....please tell me it wasn't the PHL TWR guy from a few weeks ago? 😔

[@Travelwithamie]

Rest in peace, James and Sean My heart is shattered into 1 million pieces You were the best friend anyone could ever ask for! I love you so much, my dear friend rest in peace 😭😭😭😭😭

[@davelangenfeld5062]

As someone who has lost more friend's than most before I hit 30, mostly my close friends too. I'd like to send my respects and condolences to you and their families. Keep your head up!!

[@Watchdog_McCoy_5.7x28]

My condolences go out to friends and family. Out of curiosity, does anyone have any idea what may have been the cause of this tragedy? I understand it is only speculation at this point, but if anyone has any idea I'd like to know about it merely from an educational and understanding viewpoint.

[@junitaa.9337]

Deep condolences. Rest in peace, James and Sean. Blue sky.

[@CarlosRamos-z9l]

My condolences❤

[@blancolirio]

Wow! This explains the set up very clearly, Thanks Victor!

[@travisstubenrouch8269]

We were the Bonanza A36 two behind him on the Fisk Arrival. RIP

[@Vanessagocolts]

RIP James. Love you buddy.

[@bmused55]

So very sorry for your loss.

[@aaronlee2240]

Sorry for your loss 😢

[@Hamperokken]

Sorry for your loss. Blue skies, James.

[@JasonFlorida]

I'm sorry for your loss. Prayers for you and his family

[@johnsmith6266]

rest in peace.

[@Boodieman72]

The airport closed and arrivals were put into a hold, the event is not cancelled. NTSB and FAA have staff at the event so the investigation will be able to start quickly.

[@Wilem35]

They won't be the ones investigating.

[@RainbowManification]

@@Wilem35 NTSB has staff at Airventure specifically for this. They get at least 1 accident or incident almost every year

[@silaskuemmerle2505]

​@@Wilem35an incident happens almost every year, they do keep staff there specifically for the investigation but it's usually someone not following the rules

[@AviationJeremy]

Looking at the ADSB data, it looks like he was only 3 knots (ground speed) over published Vso at the last return, in a turn, with his speed trending slower. Winds were variable at 4 knots. Airspeed is life, my friends. Altitude is life insurance.

[@10RRASK]

He also appeared to be 600 foot low crossing over the freeway.

[@BlackWidow00741]

Thank you. I didn't know exactly what happened.

[@JustPlainMike71]

I was at the show yesterday with my dad, first time making it to AirVenture, even stopped at Fisk for a little while. When I heard the airport was closed indefinitely on the ATIS, I pretty much knew something very bad happened. Sad about the two who were lost.

[@ChicagoAirportSpotter]

The airshow wasn't canceled at all, but the airport was closed for a bit. Some arrivals had to divert.

[@VASAviation]

The airshow was canceled for a few moments after the accident. Airport was complety shut down. Many arrivals had to divert and big delays. Oshkosh resumed operations later that day and EAA still ongoing.

[@dciskey]

@@VASAviationUsually when folks say “the airshow” in reference to Oshkosh they’re referring to the afternoon performances, which did still go on Monday, just a little late start.

[@joshilini2]

Hmmm who's telling the truth? I trust VAS!

[@dciskey]

@@joshilini2 I was at Oshkosh yesterday, were you?

[@ChicagoAirportSpotter]

@joshilini2 I don't know about VAS, but I'm here. The airshow started with a small delay after 2:30 PM yesterday as it always does. Which is why I said the airshow wasn't canceled. The airport was closed for a bit, but the airshow itself felt almost no impact.

[@hoshvilson]

I love you, James. One of the greatest friendships I could have ever imagined in this life. ❤

[@jenelaina5665]

I'm so sorry for your loss

[@flyoma]

Great job by the folks working Fisk (and all, really) keeping info moving. Reminders about fuel... busy airspace with pilots having a lot to take in at once, glad ATC was giving out reminders.

[@VASAviation]

Those long communications repeating the hold instruction, the fuel watch out and the FdL divert were perfect

[@182QKFTW]

"Old Crow" is a P-51 Mustang that I have photographed at Navy Fort Worth - Blue Skies, friends

[@thefireman285]

Is that the P51 Jack Rousch owns or did own?

[@SarahRenz59]

Cool. My dad flew a P-51 doing reconnaissance out of Burma during WWII.

[@182QKFTW]

@@thefireman285 There are/were a number of his Old Crows I believe. A "P-51B, P-51D F-105D. Brief history of the “Old Crows” flown by Triple Ace Col. Clarence E “Bud “Anderson during his 30 year military career." - To Fly & Fight dit comm -- I believe Rousch restored the 51B & later sold it. This was likely the 51D that Jack still owns - I think!

[@GaryCameron]

@@182QKFTW I've seen that bird at an earlier Oshkosh

[@BlackWidow00741]

​@@182QKFTWOld Crow sounded very seasoned. I'm trying to understand everything I heard. A plane crashed on arrival to the airport? Is that correct? It appeared several didn't know until told. That's very sad, may they RIP.

[@fonfsx]

Sad news. =( May the occupants rest in peace.

[@jdotsalter910]

Been in aviation professionally for 15 years, comm pilot, mechanic, business side. No desire to fly into that airshow VFR piston. I rather drive.

[@somethingclever1234]

same, its really well run but wow, there is a lot of planes in a small space

[@jdotsalter910]

@@somethingclever1234 yeah. Just listen to ATC- plane over here wag your wings.... formation over there who are you?....land at the colored dot.... aircraft over there go hold but watch out for the B-25. I'm exaggerating but for a low time pilot(and many high time pilots )some of whom never fly in congested airspace it's a recipe for disaster. Don't get me wrong I'm an airshow geek, but i wouldn't want to get there like this.

[@x_x_w_]

​@@jdotsalter910then don't. But if you want to fly in then you need to prepare. They push the notice every single year. It's not like it's some secret.

[@nutsackmania]

@@x_x_w_ luv u

[@martinwalker5049]

It's not a big deal, you just need to keep your ears awake, head on a swivel, and do what you're told. There are a few unskilled pilots going in there though. A forked tail doctor/lawyer killer tried to whack me one year (I was on the wing in a flight of two) when he decided to land somewhere other than where he was told.

[@bildnfly]

I flew in to OSH Airventure in '91 for the first time in a 160 hp Warrior after getting my private ticket just 2 months prior - The old saying you don't know what you don't know really apples! A Lear 55 captain told me "You like baptism by fire don't ya!" Made it OK by studying the NOTAM and nobody talked on the radio except controllers, all we did was listen and rock wings. I did it again however (I used to be a slow learner obviously) a couple years later and we made it but had to land at Fond Du Lac because of massive rain a few days prior. Never again. There's just too many inherent variables all trying to "getcha" at the same time...... RIP to those that were lost

[@scotabot7826]

I couldn't agree more!! Too much, too soon, too fast and too many people with too much pucker factor.

[@cruisinthefifties]

I have gone to the EAA meet since the mid '60s..Hales Corners..and drove every time---yes, even back then & it feels good that at 85 I am still around and can still fly my airplane. Rest in peace dear souls.

[@jmedlin6]

Controllers did an excellent job managing a tragic situation.

[@darrells1806]

I did the Oshkosh thing 40 years ago in my dad’s Mooney. I’ never attempt to do it again. No plans of ever go back. Stay safe out there. That’s a crazy place.

[@user-ll8be9vt4u]

RIP to the folks that lost their lives. Deepest condolences to their families..

[@PaulKoring]

Well-informed, thoughtful, intelligent. All of which are rare. Many thanks

[@OCinneide]

This is horrible. Before the crash it looks like such stressful airspace to be in.

[@VASAviation]

It's EAA fly-in and airshow

[@JoshuaCasey]

busiest airport in the world right now

[@OCinneide]

@@JoshuaCasey Yeah, I can imagine you would want to have a good nights sleep and be on your A game.

[@jackielinde7568]

I know in the past, the FAA had concerns. Mostly about staffing and who was going to pay for ATC over Oshkosh. So, yeah, it's the busiest airport in the world RN.

[@gsdalpha1358]

We've been to the Oshkosh fly-in twice. Can't recall how many thousand planes they land there in a few days. They were landing 6 planes at a time on two runways. Did you hear the "yellow dot" reference? There are 3 colored dots on runways and planes land at their specified "dot". It's wild. ATC personnel there are the best of the best.

[@mattdecker6791]

Landed six times at Oshkosh with the first back in 1990. Always an adventure and plans always change.

[@pattyhaley9594]

Flexibility is key huh?

[@secondskins-nl]

Sad, yesterday I saw another tuber talking about the report from an accident at Oshkosh past year from a collision between a helicopter and gyroplane. I was amazed how crowded it was at arrival and basically having the runway cut up by colors to get everyone down.

[@adamlannerd1408]

It happens almost every year and nobody cares. 10,000 planes will show up next year and more people will die.

[@theflyinglife1]

That is standard FISK arrival. They do it every year. The Gyro/Helicopter incident was at the ultralight field during an event and was nothing but gross negligence from the gyro.

[@camward9293]

@@theflyinglife1 Didn't the gyrocopter leave the downwind leg, do a 360, and then as he was coming back around slam into the helicopter that was previously behind him in the downwind? Anyone know why he did that?

[@ronhenke5444]

​@@camward9293He did it because he didn't think the rules applied to him. He was told the rules both days at flight briefings, had near miss the previous day by doing the "360" in the pattern, then proceeded to go out and do it again!! Seriously needs charges pressed and civil lawsuit.

[@willem-janvroom6630]

That is PilotDebrief from Hoover.

[@EstorilEm]

Is that the P-51D Old Crow? I ate lunch under the wing of that plane with my dad probably 25yr ago (at Oshkosh) - it was the year that two corsairs (I think?) collided on a takeoff run. I had such a blast as a kid though, the entire week (even the chaos of finding a place to stay was exciting.) Fast forward and ive been fortunate enough for volunteer keeping warbirds in the air, crew chiefed a TBM Avenger to airshows, etc. Also watched an aerobatic pilot go down (at our home airport airshow… will never forget that.) Flying is dangerous stuff, and Oshkosh is famous for being the busiest (and most dangerous) airport in the world for the few days it’s operating. RIP, blue skies and tailwinds. ✈️ ❤

[@---fk1ct]

Being sent to the Warbird Island hold, I'm pretty sure you're correct.

[@aberjaylopdollar1074]

That War Bird was flying when I was a kid. I am now 70. I hope to see and touch it some day. Bucket List!

[@anthonyprose4965]

I also ate lunch under the wing of old crow that year as a civil air patrol cadet. Small world.

[@andrewboon847]

Got a couple of great photos of old crow at Duxford back in 2007, lovely aircraft

[@EstorilEm]

@@anthonyprose4965 No way! Small world indeed, cheers!

[@julienjjj]

I find a high volume VFR situation way more stressfull than just doing IFR and following vectors in the most busy airports there is.

[@danc3488]

It was a Lancair ES? That plane is very hard to handle at low speeds, I've heard. Maybe a slow turn to final and then down it went. Terrible. On another note, it must've been a gem to see a P-51 and a B-25 flying at the same show. There are less than 50 flying B-25's left in the world. And man, I will never forget the sound of that Merlin engine on the P-51 for as long as I live.

[@martinwalker5049]

My dad apprenticed rebuilding Merlin engines at deHavilland before he went on to design the first commerical FADEC for the Concorde (1969 I think it first flew), and chief engineer on the GE-36 Ultra High Bypass Ducted Fan (in Smithsonian) and the GE-90 largest commercial jet engine still.

[@bradmarcum2927]

Temporary loss of fire crash rescue assets. They are required in order to comply with the air venture FAA waiver.

[@sturmovik1274]

One P51 and B25 are nothing at Oshkosh. They have a warbird lineup like nowhere else in the world. Estimated at 400-500 this year. The warbird area has twelve different zones and its own 30-minute tram tour.

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

People need to be made aware of just how poor Lancair are as an aircraft.

[@danc3488]

@@sturmovik1274 I saw a video of the arrivals. Seems like an amazing time. The only air show I get by me is the Jones Beach Air Show, which features either the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds in alternating years.

[@MaidenCanada]

Such a horrible tragedy 😢 My sincere condolences to their familes and friends. May the two precious souls on board rest in peace 😔 🙏

[@b_shet]

Take it easy, ST - you’re one of a kind ❤️

[@DG_64]

Sorry for your loss my man

[@scottlenahan8228]

Essssssss teeeee. Was my trainer at CNO. Gonna miss that guy big time.

[@b_shet]

@@scottlenahan8228 I can hear those initials *exactly* how you just spelled them out. Hope you’re doing ok, brother. It’s such a shock for us all.

[@scottlenahan8228]

@@b_shet same to you, big time shock for us here. Everything just stopped. Nobody wanted to be working anymore. World has lost a great one.

[@DG_64]

@@scottlenahan8228 I'm sorry man, I hope you're able to work through this and find a way to carry on his legacy

[@tomwickstead1]

Sad day…arriving into Osh looks like one of the most stressful arrivals.

[@MedusalObligation]

Haven't been back to Oshkosh since 1979 as a 3 year pilot. It was busy and a bit too risky to me at the time. But it was something worth the trip. If I ever go again, it will be by ground transportation. Way too big, too many egos in the air. I feel sorry for the folks that crashed. Whatever the reason.

[@CrashTestPilot]

My buddy and I went the year after we got our licenses in 1988. We talked to a lot of old dogs that had been going for years and did a lot of homework leading up to the trip but even with two of us in the airplane, it was stressful as hell. It's such a dynamic airspace with a lot going on and the plan you had going in is likely going to get blown to hell upon arrival. Once we were tied down, I remember feeling less like we'd arrived and more like we'd gotten away with something we never should have been doing in the first place.

[@MedusalObligation]

@@CrashTestPilot I did it my fathers aircraft that I had far too few hours in for that trip. Like you, I more felt like I got away with it than did it. (The transition from a PA-28 to a Meyers/Aero Commander 200 for the trip was intense. But I did have someone right seat with plenty of experience with both the Commander and Oshkosh with me. Or I would have turned around and gone somewhere else!)

[@williamh3823]

​@@CrashTestPiloti can sense ur quandry..and amazement at survival

[@MotJ949]

Locals know this is probably just the start. I’m not sure this event ever makes it without fatalities of incoming planes or at the show.

[@MomedicsChannel]

It has, but it’s very rare. Fuel starvation issues tend to be the reason. Many pilots don’t want to be delayed with an alternate for a splash of gas and end up with “get there-itis” …

[@MotJ949]

@@MomedicsChannel LOL 😂 OK, honey, you believe what you want. Collisions, mechanical failures, skills gaps… plain old fashioned pilot error… EAA really does have it all…

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@MomedicsChannel There are plenty of places to put down if you run out of fuel, so fuel starvation shouldn't cause a major accident like this.

[@huh4233]

@@MotJ949 Best example of the 99.7 percent, three sigma statistics, in just about every General Aviation category I can think of.

[@MotJ949]

@@huh4233show us the statistics. Last year was three craft involved in two accidents resulting in four deaths. One was a collision, one was running when it crashed into the lake. Where in your statistics does fuel starvation enter when all three were under powered flight at the time of incident? I could go on… but you’re the one talking g standard deviations and percentages.

[@mikeramsey9747]

I worked OSH as a controller during the Air Venture, this is terrible to see any accident but at OSH most accidents are due to being too slow and low thus stalling. The procedures are among the safest I've ever worked with the huge number of arrivals and departures so any accident is terrible.

[@davidholubetz177]

Sounds like he might have been low and slow - not a good thing in a Lancair.

[@frankprio4490]

That airplane was heavy and slow.. plus they asked him to widen out.. with a turn to the right.. and then probably a hard turn back to final

[@SkyFlicks01]

I was at my campsite when I noticed black smoke in the distance. I saw right when it happened. Me and my friend biked all the way to the crash. The crash was in a field on a farm. We then biked through the field and to the crash. We saw the vertical stabilizer sticking out of the tall grass about 60 feet away. That was as close as we got because the police didn’t want us getting closer. The crash was a Very sad and unfortunate moment at Oshkosh. RIP

[@Berend-ov8of]

At this stage, you might as well blame the bean field. A tragic loss of life and a shame for the event. AirVenture has the best ATCs on the job, but it is also the most congested airspace on the planet. You have to be confidently on top of your game to want to fly into that.

[@RichFreeman]

I think the "best ATC" in the world is part of the problem. You should be able to assign the worst pilots and ATC that can legally operate and still be safe. If you're relying on incredible skill, that means the process isn't safe with positive control. There simply shouldn't be any temporary flight rules for something like this. Just have a controlled airport and issue one clearance at a time, with arrivals a mile or two apart if they're slow. Auction off tie downs for $20k each or whatever. No more accidents.

[@x_x_w_]

​@@RichFreemanThe show is for the spirit of aviation, not for the super rich. With your suggestions there would be no air show. It also sounds like you don't grasp the size of the event. It's easy to look at the numbers and say oh just slow it down but when you see how many people are here and how everybody looks forward to it and have a blast.

[@RichFreeman]

@@x_x_w_ I completely get the point, but you can't operate so many safely. You could lottery them off if you prefer not to charge. There would be an air show regardless - the same number of people would arrive whether you auction them off or have a lottery. That's a small airport that can't sustain parallel operations. So that's a landing every minute or two maybe if they aren't doing takeoffs? You could still land hundreds of planes over a few days (not all on the first day though). Just not 6 at a time with so many on frequency that they have to resort to wing wagging for communications. I get that everybody has fun doing it the way they're doing it. Well, the ones who don't end up dead at least - maybe they had fun too. I guess one could argue that as long as only the people who choose to be there die it is a choice they should be free to make. That's a matter of values that people will disagree on. Really though if you're going that route then you don't even need the FAA to run it. Just make a big NOTAM over the area saying that you operate at your own risk, and let the show run their own private ATC service within that bubble, and as long as no damage to people or property happens outside the bubble what happens in Oshkosh stays in Oshkosh. That would be fine by me, though it is very contrary to how most of this country is governed so I don't see that actually happening. Most likely it will just get shut down if this keeps up.

[@Parc_Ferme]

​@@x_x_w_ The Spirit of Aviation is learning with it's own errors and make sure that won't happen again. Why doesn't have "slots" assigned to each landing and takeoff into the limits of safe operation? The busiest airspace in the world sounds more like a big mess than a proud thing to say when there is fatalities each time the event happens.

[@griffisjm]

What exactly caused the crash? I haven't seen or read anything. By your comments it would seem like it was negligence in that there was too much traffic, too busy, so did someone collide? What happened.

[@JamesAllmond]

Man, rough AirVenture this year. Fly safe you all (from a motorcyclist, same issues, just on the road and thank God we don't fly.)

[@jandejong2430]

Never forget Aviate. Not for a moment.

[@pattyhaley9594]

And you can always go around and or divert.

[@thomasholldorf9196]

I was just south of Fisk when this happened. Saw the black plume of smoke and we knew what had happened immediately. They got everything back inbound in less than an hour though

[@craig7083]

Sunday and Monday are the busiest days for aircraft arrivals to Airventure Oshkosh. I like to fly in on Friday or Saturday. Also on weekdays during Airventure, the airport is closed to arrivals and departures from noon to 5pm for the air show, then close again at 8pm until 6am the following morning. Thursday, by the way, is the busiest day for departures.

[@victoriawilde6878]

Rest in peace James, you’ll be remembered buddy.

[@DG_64]

I am so, so sorry for your loss

[@hoshvilson]

❤

[@davidgraham7932]

Superb work from ATC keeping pilots informed and reminding them about fuel. Sad day, but always reassuring to hear that when tragedy happens people remain professional and keep safety a priority. Great job all round.

[@lundbrad]

Not sure why they put everyone in a hold and divert everyone when the accident wasn't on one of the airport runways. Does anyone know? It seems like it is so much more dangerous to have everyone who has been flying for hours to get here holding, maneuvering, diverting, getting lost, running into each other, or running out of fuel.

[@VASAviation]

There's very good comments explaining why. Check them out

[@gottafly30]

the image at 1:25 tells the tale. his position to the airport sets up a tight 135 degree left turn back to final to follow L39 traffic at his 10. low, slow, steep turn, and potential turbulence from the jet is a difficult combination after a long cross country. RIP to both pilot and PAX.

[@SwigsJigs]

I was on the lake at the time of this crash, I could see the smoke from where I was (just north of Stockbridge on the far side of Winnebago)

[@marcel1416]

To be blunt - this doesn't surprise me. And it wouldn't surprise me if it happens again... Oshkosh seems to be highly stressful for pilots and controllers. Also, I never understood how some of these procedures are legal... The fact alone that pilots are not required to read back instructions is mind boggling to me - proper readbacks are the pilar of safe communications in air traffic. In my opinion, if they want to keep Oshkosh a fly-in airshow, they should limit the amount of traffic that far, so that "normal" communications and procedures can be maintained. I'm not saying this was the cause here, but the amount of traffic into Oskkosh is just insane, and it wouldn't surprise me if stress was a contributing factor.

[@truthserum5310]

Impossible to have pilot readbacks with the thousands of arrivals. It's the busiest airport in the world during arrivals. You'd have an insane amount of stepped on communications.

[@marcel1416]

@@truthserum5310 Exactly my point!

[@tinaann3323]

I live close to Oshkosh and have gone several times. I was there when the F16 went off the runway and video taped it. But unfortunately, it seems every time there is at least 1 fatal.

[@ayitsyaboi]

I was just talking about last year with a coworker today. Sucks to see this news immediately after. RIP.

[@MrShenron89]

RIP, he sounded like a very competent pilot :/. Condelences to the family!

[@scotabot7826]

All it takes is a split second.

[@harrodharrod5239]

Honestly, the entire Oshkosh event and the way they handle their arrivals with multiple touchdown points on a single runway is out of this world. Condolences where condoleces are due, and nothing but respect to everyone else involved in that event.

[@n539rv]

I don’t get it… the accident was not on the airport property, so creating this hold created a significant elevated risk for all inbound aircraft. They should have at least continued the flow to Rwy 27 which is way away from 36 route.

[@ace00007]

The emergency responders leave the airport to help with the crash so operations stop until they return

[@RetreadPhoto]

Would you want to be vectored in by controllers that might be a little emotionally compromised and distracted as they try to multitask with first responder traffic on the ground and possibly in the air? And if you were on the ground out there somewhere, wouldn’t you want them to be focused on you?

[@garyfischer4357]

Man, these controllers are AWESOME!

[@challenger604pilot]

Praying for those people who lost their lives just trying to go have fun at an incredible air show.

[@cecilboatwright3555]

NEVER make light airplanes pass behind and/or below jets of ANY kind.....jet wash, regardless of the wake turbulence caused by the WEIGHT of the jet, is INCREDIBLY turbulent and it is VERY LIKELY to cause a loss of control to a light aircraft that encounters it (especially one that has slowed for landing).

[@jamiesuejeffery]

This is a tragedy. Many prayers for those involved. I live in Reno, Nevada where we USED to have some amazing air races, but after several (non-consecutive) years of crashes with fatalities, the insurance company would no longer underwrite them. So no more Reno Air Races.

[@cindithompson2187]

I went to one of the Reno air races. They were conducting the jet races and one of the jets flew into another aircraft’s wake vortex and lost control crashed and passed away. It was horrible to witness.

[@SOAR1214]

Rest in Peace.

[@rickansell661]

Quick note on fatalities at Airshows that is not strictly 'on topic'. Farnborough 2024 is also on this week. Spare a thought for the medical folks on duty, particularly on the public days. I used to work with someone who was a lead volunteer medic at the show every year. Regardless of any flying issues (truely rare) they dealt with at least one fatality a year. (Situation may have changed, this was turn of the century) Put that many people together and you will get Heart Attacks and similar. So, as I say, spare a thought for the medical teams keeping you safer on the ground.

[@martinwalker5049]

Used to go to Farnborough on the industry days. 1st class Chalet on the flight line and everything. Great show. Did see one smack it in back in the 70's.

[@rickansell661]

@@martinwalker5049 Former Trade Day attendee myself, as I work for the MOD. Our office was just outside the Display Box, part of our Staff Car Park was closed during the show as it was inside the risk area. We got aircraft low over us flying in and out of the box and Russians breaking the rules big-time and doing Cobras vertically over us (they got sent home). Anyway, this is off-topic. We shall see what the cause of this crash was in due course. But big shout-out to the medical crews responding to the incident and those doing the quieter but still vital role of being ready to provide care to attendees who need it for less public reasons. Everybody involved in large events like this are doing a hard job, from ATC and Display Pilots to the people picking up the trash (been there, done that, at non-aviation events).

[@itjustlookslikethis]

@@martinwalker5049 I hear Boeing is getting some big orders, much to the dismay of the Boeing-bashers.

[@martinwalker5049]

@@rickansell661 "doing Cobras vertically over us (they got sent home)." I remember that! SU-29 I think?

[@rickansell661]

@@martinwalker5049 Various types did them, probably still do. But the key point was that this particular one didn't do them inside the permitted 'Display Box' - the pilot of that particular type, that particular year, did his over inhabited offices (actually, directly over the preserved Buccaneer 'Nightbird' test aircraft in the centre of the offices). The public and trade never got to see that particular display by that particular pilot as he was doing it during the practise period where displays are reviewed by the Flying Committee for safety and, as I say, after the second offence he got sent home. No idea if another pilot displayed the aircraft that year or it stayed on the ground, or what exact type, year etc. Memory fades. It was very soon after they began participating in the show though. 'Interesting' to be walking to the canteen and looking straight up the jetpipes above me though.

[@paulhathaway6292]

So very sad. Those lost and their families are in my thoughts and prayers. The professionalism of controllers at OSH is the best in the world.

[@martinzinho6455]

“Nah, it happens “…. I mean , he’s not lying.. Oshkosh has that reputation nowadays.

[@disinfected85]

Nowadays? It’s always been like this.

[@HabuBeemer]

He meant it happens being diverted to a hold or an alternate.

[@Kevin_747]

I was traveling south on 41 and saw the black smoke. Unfortunately from past experience witnessing an aircraft post crash fire I knew what that black smoke probably was.

[@09shadowjet]

Arrival into Oshkosh during the AirVenture has always been an organized chaos requiring precise planning, coordination, and procedures. You really have to be on your sharpest when you're flying to the festival. If you plan to fly to the AirVenture, please be sure to plan and study the procedures. Practicing on flight sim would also be helpful. Fly safe.

[@RetreadPhoto]

Sim and research wouldn’t have helped in this instance. No way to plan for that right turn on short left base, so close to short final. And no observable viable go around option.

[@09shadowjet]

@@RetreadPhoto Home sim exercise is more of a familiarisation of the area and procedure rather than sharpening skills.

[@stefansjogren7885]

That Fisk Arrival and those procedures are too stressful for many pilots. Too many planes at a too tight spot. In trying to squeeze in as many planes as possible most normal separation procedures are sidestepped. I think they need to evaluate all this and maybe sequence planes in another way or maybe reduce the number of arrivals during the most hectic hours.

[@RetreadPhoto]

Coming from Fisk, left downwind to 27 and left base to 36 are not that stressful. Now, doing it with a short final approach to a parallel runway with opposing traffic and B-25, L-39, and P-51s screaming around, and getting turned away toward a climbing tight extended left downwind from a left base descent toward a runway you were already setting up for, that’s stressful. He sure appears to be too close to short final to be successful turned south in such a slippery plane, it’s not a C-172. Careful what you wish for asking for 36. Will be interesting to see if they change the route next year to incorporate some type of risk mitigation.

[@jonnie2bad]

@@RetreadPhoto 27 is a right base turn as per the NOTAM. Only 18 has a left downwind and the warbirds get a left downwind for 09. They wont turn you south on the base leg for 36. You fly down the runway and turn south east once you are abeam of the tower.

[@michaelrodgers9419]

Sad way to start the event. Prayers for all.

[@Xaunoki]

Sounds like the classic too slow base to final turn. Hope to find out what happened. Sad news.

[@martinwalker5049]

Maybe. Odd it went from perfectly normal to smoking hole without even a radio call though. I was out practicing slow flight, base to final, and departure stalls last night (and loops and aileron rolls). IDK how the Lancair breaks in a stall, but I bet it's not as gentle as my RV with that wing.

[@craigharoldson]

Warning: Complete speculation below. I can’t help but think the primary cause of this was the L39 (and others) doing low passes on the same runway GA was landing. The L39 cut directly in front of the Lancair just as he was going to turn on final. The ATC call to “widen it out” was too late… the Lancair tried to widen but the turn was too tight and slow. At the end of the day, the Lancair pilot probably should have recognized the conflict and aborted, but everything happened in an instant.

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

Knowing the history of Lancair well. I blame the plane. It's a death trap.

[@RetreadPhoto]

@@whatilearnttoday5295the L-39s don’t make it any easier

[@jefsel881]

On left base then informed of another aircraft on Right base for parallel RWY. Then informed of two jets inbound on final and to extend your base leg? How? Turn into the jets? Am I missing something? And all under ATC direction. The jets should have been directed to overfly at altitude.

[@craigharoldson]

@@jefsel881 L39 was opposite base for same runway. The L39 and Lancair were flying at each other.

[@jefsel881]

@@craigharoldson well there, that’s totally insane. Let me guess ATC has a waver for that. No ones reporting their positions or whether the other is in sight. Relying totally on ATC as per instructions. Pilots have lots of things to do without having to imagine an imminent collision on base to final.

[@royschalk6554]

Be proficient and on top of your game, flying into Airventure isn't for everyone. But it is well worth it if you actually study the notice and follow the rules.

[@JordanColeman-r8w]

I live on the othere side of the State of Wisconsin and have been to Oshkosh a few times, i always look out for airplanes leaving our airport here in Lacrosse after they get fuel and say a silent prayer for them as they fly over. My thoughts and prayers are with the pilot, passenger and all who loved him 💔🙏❤️

[@juliusreinke120]

First thing first please R.I.P to the gentleman who lost their lives my condolences 💐 to all their loved ones I just lost my son in a horrible car accident last month losing a loved one is so devastating and heartbreaking ❤️‍🩹 I will pray for your loved ones and my son as I pray 🙏 for his and your loved ones who has passed one and went to heaven amen 🙏

[@scotabot7826]

So sorry for your loss Sir. Prayers sent.

[@juliusreinke120]

@@scotabot7826 that you I really do appreciate you every blessing is so much appreciated thank you it really does mean so much to us

[@JuanAdam12]

Accident aircraft's pilot had confident radio skills--sounded experienced. Maybe not a lot of time in the Lancair? Very interested to learn what happened.

[@PN_48]

I can see how it happened. Landing at Osh is a complicated affair with lots to watch out for. All it takes is getting too low and slow for just a min in the Lancair and it’s a tough recovery.

[@VASAviation]

Think of a low speed turn to final but should wait for a preliminary

[@JuanAdam12]

@@VASAviation I can see it. Probably naive of me to think that if you’re flying a Lancair you know to watch your airspeed. His radio *sounded* like SA wasn’t distracting him from flying.

[@Dyson_Cyberdynesystems]

Maybe wake turbulence?

[@RetreadPhoto]

@@JuanAdam12there was the Lancair bouncing around, through a fence, and hitting a car down in Texas back in September, remember? It’s speed is a double-edged sword.

[@leokimvideo]

Such a tragedy at what's known as general aviations prime event, the ATC really stepped up when they needed to.

[@RT-qd8yl]

Sad for everyone. Everybody comes out to Oshkosh to have fun and something like this really ruins the mood. 😢

[@AudioArcturia]

I always felt intimidated by the traffic at Oshkosh. Aircraft events just seem way too intense for me.

[@davef.2329]

Condolences to those lost, their families, and friends.

[@cptn_chromo3189]

Rest in Peace to my fellow aviation enthusiasts. A tragic event but at least you went out doing what you love.

[@ferrari2k]

That is such a sad thing, you go there to have fun and meet people only to never go back home again... Condolences to their families!

[@jetaerobatics]

You can tell a lot about a pilot's attitude and ability by their comm standard.

[@clixstormdiy4352]

He was a controller and likely trying to give other fellow controllers time off frequency to work.

[@harrypenn611]

Oh god thats bloody horrible , such a great guy and beautiful aircraft, what a awful end for them both

[@Hudson-j2m]

Thanks for all the memories James Sullivan, RIP.

[@generalrendar7290]

I'm assuming a stall spin when he was asked to widen his turn and he was trying to maintain altitude in the turn. That's my best guess.

[@frankprio4490]

And they had just topped off with fuel down at Hartford So he was both heavy and slow and that right turn to widen out and then a left turn back to the final did it

[@Nevada-Habesha.Mapper]

I was there, saw the smoke and assumed it was part of the show. Rest in peace to those two 🙏

[@HabuBeemer]

I saw the smoke as well and was a bit confused by it since it was not on the airport proper. Now I know. Sorry this was the real situation. Terrible outcome.

[@JKadison]

What a terrible tragedy to have happened at such a fabulous even. Condolences to the pilots family!

[@alk672]

A lesson I had to learn early in my training - always aviate first. However close that other aircraft is, however likely the midair is in your mind - still the chance of you spinning out is orders of magnitude higher. Confirmed by hundreds of accidents. Always fly your own aircraft first, everything else - including other traffic - comes distant second.

[@aztec0112]

Every year😞. Prayers for his loved ones.

[@aesma2522]

Did I hear right that a small prop airplane was supposed to follow 2 jets ? What about wake turbulence ?

[@billroberts9182]

I don't understand the logic of shutting down the airport when there is a crash off-airport. If the crash is 1/2 mile away, or 5 miles away, why would you shut down existing flights if rescue vehicles don't need access to the runway or taxiways?

[@cfairfull8030]

If you have an accident off airport the fire department from the airport will still respond, because they are specifically trained for fighting fires involving aircraft and fuel. So if you continue arrivals, you are quite literally vulnerable if theres another accident.

[@RetreadPhoto]

And controllers are emotionally affected and distracted by the first responder activities. Focus shifts to life saving, if possible. Hard to do that and normal operations workload.

[@redfoxtactical8425]

That didn't take long. Fatal accident at least once a year at Oshkosh these days. Wont be long until it's shut down like the Reno Air Shows at this rate. RIP to the pilot and be safe to all the aviators out there this year.

[@RetreadPhoto]

Silliness. Planes crash across the country, every day. They’re just as likely to crash elsewhere.

[@stephenban]

Man, is there an incident at Oshkosh every year?

[@geoffb108]

If the accident was acknowledged as not on the airfield why should whole field be closed. Wouldn't the associated heavy traffic and confusion make whole process more dangerous

[@VASAviation]

Airport Firefighters attending on scene

[@WolfPilot]

@@VASAviation the scene off airfield property.. I am with several other folks saying the call to close the airfield was premature and caused more problems than it solved.

[@HabuBeemer]

Flightaware ADS-B reporting showed: The final two ADS-B returns (recorded at approximately 16-second intervals) show the aircraft slowing to 95 and then 90 knots as it descended through 1,125 feet and turned toward the south, away from the airport. The final return, recorded at 12:13:33 p.m., shows the aircraft at 950 feet, descending at 375 feet per minute. Very sad outcome.

[@davecrupel2817]

1:13 Awww Old Crow. I know that mustang. Glad she made it to Osh.

[@RidgeR5]

That sucks. The guy was probably in the final moments of getting to a dream event and something, we don't know what yet, happened and he lost his life. It's like getting killed in a car crash outside Disneyland.

[@itjustlookslikethis]

Yeah, that's always the standard excuse. Blame the pilot, especially if he's dead and can't tell you what happened.

[@chuckthebrindlepittie6820]

I thought his passenger also died. Perhaps I misunderstood.

[@Guysm1l3y]

@@itjustlookslikethis A pilot who can't handle a base to final turn is gonna catch the blame, yes.

[@orangecayman520]

There was no mention of it here that I noticed really. I was in the Southwest tent when it happened and I only heard about it because of the Facebook posts

[@santaclaus24.12.]

We were there in Oskosh and saw the cloud of smoke. Our thoughts are with the victims!

[@PaulKoring]

Thanks!

[@RetreadPhoto]

So a B-25 flying over northbound and two L-39s landing from opposite base he was being vectored around? Were those factors?

[@Hillbillyz1]

Every year a plane or two crashes. Last year a mini helicopter crashed about 30 yards from where I was standing.

[@noahgrove2046]

There seems to alway be at least one incident, or worse, a fatal crash every year at Oshkosh. Unfortunately when you have that many airplanes all together something seems bound to happen.

[@rukumrailagang]

In Nepal 🇳🇵 kathmandu plane crash one hour ago and 22 people died 😢😢 rip all

[@frankreyes4]

I am very, very sorry to hear that, and we hope you are well.

[@robd2184]

I don’t fancy it and I’ve done 12,000 hrs. You’d have to bring your a A game ..plus

[@tommaxwell429]

IMO the most dangerous part is converging into the arrival. Once you get into the arrival it shouldn't be difficult to maintain separation and fly it as published. Coming into that funnel is a real pucker factor. That said, if all goes well great, when there is a deviation from standard expectations, stress and carelessness both increase exponentially. The mind goes to what are the missed approach procedures, where do I go next, where is the traffic, how do I get back in sequence. Lots of things to take away from flying the airplane. Prearrival self briefings are paramount, "What do I do if I have to abort the approach here, here, here, and here, and at final turn? How do I get out of this area from here, here, here, and on base or final?" Be ready and listen carefully, follow directions, and always fly the aircraft. If you are confused, ask for help, but don't panic and don't try to shoehorn in your approach. In the end there are safe ways to get out of the approach and then resequence. Sure the skies are crowded, but for the most part everyone is going the same way. There is room to get out if needed. Or if you aren't comfortable, don't fly in, drive! RIP to these two. What a shame!

[@pattyhaley9594]

First flying in with others who have flown in before and with people who know what the risks are and how to avoid them, helps too.