Pilots VACATE ONTO CLOSED RUNWAY EXIT Causing Flight Delays at LAX

[@VASAviation]

Oh, the new layout for the north complex at LAX is causing several issues after the reconstruction of runway and taxiways. AEROFLOT Vacates onto closed runway only to discover an array orange traffic cones in front of them: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j57cqJ2DhqmVpdUsi=rb7ZehP9p-dGWGnm

[@gpslightlock1422]

Habits are hard to change. Pilot may have been exiting that runway there for decades.

[@sarahalbers5555]

Him and alot of other pilots, as well.

[@JohnTole-g7m]

It is all on NOTAM... not rocket science

[@shaun3000]

@@JohnTole-g7msure on page 12 of 37. 🙄

[@JHollidayB]

@@shaun3000Exactly. Cleverly hidden in 20 pages of gibberish.

[@PiskeyFaeri]

Legend has it tower is still trying to reach Alaska 1300 and American 1531 to this day

[@VASAviation]

I spoke to the controller and he still doesn't know why them both switched to other frequencies without permission. They just left their own...

[@ramon3221]

@@VASAviation I guess they tried to reach tower but got no response due to the "stuck mic", then decided to switch on their own? I actually had that once while in the CTR, in the end I switched back to the previous frequency then asked for the alternate tower frequency. After tower reached me, they did a broadcast that everybody had to switch to that new frequency due to a stuck mic

[@benoithudson7235]

So he *is* still trying to reach them to this day!

[@rhanemann9100]

1:45 tells Alaska 1300 to contact SoCal approach?

[@chimmy_jim]

@@rhanemann9100 It was never readback by Alaska 1300 so the Tower controller did the correct thing trying to get a readback.

[@jamesvarner6575]

Looking at my jepp chart for lax, Zulu is no longer depicted. So if the pilot was told to exit victor, looked left and saw uniform, according to the chart his next left would be victor. I can easily see how someone not familiar with the airport would make this mistake, especially when asked to expedite.

[@rodcoulter997]

Looking at the NOAA chart(28NOV2024 to 26DEC2024) #24305 shows “V,W,Y, with Z at the end. That’s weird.

[@MotoVloggedOUT]

I was excited to hear myself on one of your videos but it ended right before I came on frequency 😂😂😂😂

[@VASAviation]

Ohhh sorry

[@idkjames]

Sup bro A11. Fellow NATCA CLT in civilian. Not sure what's going on here lol. Was a USMC controller like 20 years ago

[@benjaminkohl342]

I saw a lot of this happening on fr24, noticed the go arounds first (and Alaska not climbing to 5000 for forever), the Frontier on the wrong taxiway, the ops vehicles, but didn't know for sure what happened. Took a picture so I could remember it. Thanks for posting! Validated all my assumptions and so cool to see something I saw get a recording and a real explanation!

[@JHollidayB]

Which day did this occur?

[@ColorNerdChris]

Yikes - What an airshow! Wrong turns, go arounds, stuck mics, missed handoffs. Off topic: Are all Speedbird pilots a clone of the original chap from 1957? I swear they all sound exactly alike.

[@Obiwan234]

Cool, calm and collected, the power of a good cup of tea! 😅

[@joegardiner394]

We make them in a factory over here! :P

[@pamspurgers3578]

I thought the Speedbird guy sounded like the pilot who used to talk to Kennedy Steve. It must be a rule that all Speedbird pilots sound alike.

[@pamspurgers3578]

@@joegardiner394 Ahhhh...now it makes perfect sense.

[@jillcrowe2626]

It's the same guy, but now he's 106 years old and he's still flying commercially!

[@alexc5449]

Pilots are used to exiting the first available taxiway, ATC says “no delay” and from the looks of it no yellow X on the taxiway, yep this is bound to happen.

[@JouMxyzptlk]

0:44 - Where is "Victor" on the map? On or two exit after Zulu? Or is it the "HS 1 AA" ? 1:14 Aahhhh ! Magic! Sorcery!

[@2be1withU]

But if you look, Zulu is at the end of the runway. Maybe the closed taxiway is the old Zulu?

[@JouMxyzptlk]

@@2be1withU Look at 0 Minutes 44 Seconds, which is probably the old plan where there is no "V" anywhere, and them compare to 1 Minute 15 Seconds to compare. (That is what my comment is about :D )

[@soccerguy2433]

@@2be1withU the closed taxiway is the old zulu as depicted at 0:47. That's the old diagram.

[@Brahmlullies]

I’d bet anything the stuck mic was from OPS and a waist level hand-held radio. Keyed up as he’s sitting in and getting in/out of the OPS vehicle.

[@jake_]

99% chance you are right.

[@sjm18pars]

Yeah all of these that include OPS on frequency are scary they do not seem to be well trained in airport operations at all and usually are confused about what to do.

[@backandforthupanddow]

At bigger airports , like LAX, the taxiing can be more difficult than the flying. I can see how this happened.

[@wyrmhand]

For the almighty Victor and the algorithm Have a fantastic Christmas

[@JohnCountryman737]

Excellent example of how one innocent little mistake can gum up the works and create unnecessary risks for so many others...

[@thud9797]

Wow the controller having a bad day! But handling it pretty well. 😎

[@AkilanNarayanaswamy]

A stuck mic on top of that? That's annoying

[@pattyhaley9594]

Murphys law

[@wp40]

I did something similar once. 🤦‍♂️ Luckily I was in a C-130 and was able to reverse my way out of my screwup before things got too bad.

[@stefflus08]

This one dude does tower and ground? Like when the Skywest was squashed back in the day?

[@JSFGuy]

Sounds like some serious confusion

[@soccerguy2433]

0:47 OLD diagram 1:16 NEW diagram fades in.

[@VASAviation]

Exactly

[@AlexM2299]

I love Delta 2272 😂 “Yeah we never got that call”

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Was there a shortage of personnel in the tower? For an aircraft to land without incident and then exit on a closed but PAVED taxiway to require a runway inspection after moving off the taxiway seems odd in light of the fact it wasn't an emergency aircraft. The second thing is that ATC lost 2 flights... Alaska 1300 and American 1531. I was just yesterday watching the report on the USAir that landed on the Skywest Metroliner in 1991. Hopefully these 2 missing flights were handed off to departure and we didn't hear it.

[@Ea-Nasir_Copper_Co]

What a mess, and it just kept getting worse.

[@chairbornefobbit]

Well, that was a cluster. I feel for the Frontier guys. That was an easy mistake to make.

[@pamspurgers3578]

My thoughts exactly.

[@chaseuhlich6883]

Yep, I have made this mistake before. It led me to not being lazy with what taxiway I plan on exciting during my brief. It was my home airport and late at night, no visible markings I could see until I was too far deep to make a 180. ATC told me to take next available on the rollout and I wanted to help them out. It was notamed. Lesson learned but I was worried about getting in trouble since another plane had to go around.

[@johnhaller5851]

He didn't get a number to call, maybe made a courtesy call anyway.

[@soccerguy2433]

is it lighted and barricaded? is it marked with an X? is the lead-off line removed?

[@Slytiger3]

No Yes Yes

[@The93Vector]

If you look at the Google Earth view, there’s definitely a big Yellow X painted, and there’s also a barricade all the way across the hold-short line. Which is likely why Frontier needed Ops to come out and help; they had to move the barricades for the plane to continue forward, vs getting a tug to push them backwards.

[@danielgoodson703]

Superior skills deployed. Impressive.

[@sarahalbers5555]

And welcome to the new and confused taxi way at LAX. This is proving to be a large dumpster fire at one of the world's busiest airports. Stay tuned, news at 11.

[@robertbutsch1802]

Victor, you should link to your vid from a few years ago at JFK where an Aeroflot 777 exited the runway onto a crossing runway only to discover an array orange traffic cones in front of them. More confusion there even than this one I think.

[@VASAviation]

Good idea. Here it is kzbin.info/www/bejne/j57cqJ2DhqmVpdUsi=rb7ZehP9p-dGWGnm

[@HoldTheLine1990]

Why did LAX permanently close a mid-field high speed exit?

[@VASAviation]

Because they built 3 more I guess

[@airsideopslax7911]

Not a closed taxiway. A decommissioned taxiway. No leadoff lines, painted green.

[@rodcoulter997]

Wasn’t that TXY “VICTOR” for a 100 years…V, W, Y and Z at the end…the way I recall it…construction@KLAX change all that?….i’m confused…so was F9

[@toneale]

Complete cluster

[@blue_1247]

they should paint a big fat 'X' on closed taxiways so pilots don't accidently vacate on them

[@airbus_3209]

​@@thefencepost50/50?😅

[@breakinghues2751]

Or a barricade

[@williamedwards1528]

Or some traffic cones!

[@airbus_3209]

@@williamedwards1528 not again!!!

[@alexc5449]

@@thefencepost50/50 😮

[@JHollidayB]

When did this occur?

[@DanFrederiksen]

Amazing system

[@gulthepilot]

Crew didnt read the notams..this also happens if u dont broadcast a closed taxiway on the atis.

[@mikelp72]

There’s dozens of notams at all times at that airport. System is a cluster, it’s inevitable that some will be missed.

[@DeweyCheatumNHoweLLC]

To quote a pilot from when the whole NOTAM system went down that time, "Nobody reads NOTAM's any more"

[@TheGlobalTravelr]

When tower said “expedite”, Frontier literally went for the first taxiway. Cheez…take a breath and control your aircraft. Until I cleared the runway, that concrete was mine!

[@This-Is-Your-Captain]

While on the runway it’s my runway until I exit. Also I never read back clearances until clear. I comply with instructions then read back instructions once clear of the active. As much as atc may want you to expedite it’s your runway until clear.

[@amcam124]

Dang what a mess

[@stephenbritton9297]

I'm not familiar with LAX, but if you're going to permanently close a high speed exit (especially that one) you probably need to mark it better. Why was in closed anyway?

[@VASAviation]

It is not operative anymore after the construction of new exits

[@clearspectrum324]

When was this?

[@stevebalt5234]

Saturday 14-Dec-2024 just after 0000 UTC

[@arboristcua1962]

Ya them orange 🍊 cones are really expensive 😂

[@6yjjk]

They are when they get sucked into an engine.

[@camdenmounts1473]

Not a pilot- why cant they use that taxiway if the pavement is still there? Sure he made a mistake but why did they choose to leave him sticking out on the runway?

[@margaretmathis4775]

No idea either, but it could be that the surface of the taxiway was torn up / not in good shape for airline tires.

[@alexc5449]

Probably because the controllers have no idea what’s going on with that closed taxiway.

[@billfly2186]

Those diagrams are not to scale.

[@tommaxwell429]

Interesting the taxiway is closed but ops seemed to just taxi him through it. Maybe some what happened was cut from the video. If the taxiway is closed, why are there not barricades there? Granted it is in the notam but man, that is just asking for problems. Why no barricades? Clearly it was the crews fault as they were given a specific exit to take, but crews are used to getting off as quickly as possible. I know, no excuse but it could be made easier with a couple of orange barricades.

[@The93Vector]

There ARE barricades across the hold-short line (visible on Google earth). Ops probably moved the barricades to get the plane through, vs sending a tug to push them back.

[@johnhaller5851]

It's a permanently closed taxiway with no lighting. Ops was there as a follow-me vehicle to get it back on maintained surfaces.

[@tommaxwell429]

@@The93Vector I haven't looked, are they on both ends of the taxiway? If so, then the crew is really in error to turn off there.

[@2004JETTA]

Thats a bad day 😕

[@yaronsteinbuch3956]

Yikes! Bad day for that controller. Thanks for the vid.

[@Flies2FLL]

Someone gots some 'splainin to do.... I'm not excusing this guy, but you'd think that they would make NOTAMS easier to read.

[@shaark92]

so Frontier was allowed to continue taxi ... but behind a "follow me?" I didn't hear the pilot ask for a follow me. shouldn't there have been a barrier to the closed taxiway? what a goat rope. Be alert out there.

[@penguin44ca]

Am I crazy but I don't see a Victor taxi way

[@pattyhaley9594]

Yea, me either. WE are NOT crazy LOL

[@VASAviation]

Look at the charts

[@pattyhaley9594]

@@VASAviation Nope, not there. Can you locate it for me please? It's not marked anyway and why is taxiway AA circled? HS?

[@VASAviation]

I display TWO different charts on video. The old one and the new one. V is present in the newest chart. You can search for the chart yourself on the internet

[@jonathankleinow2073]

@@pattyhaley9594 If you look on Google Earth (not Google Maps), you can pull up the historic imagery and see the difference between how the taxiways were laid out last year versus how they're laid out on the latest imagery from October of this year. The former taxiway Z they exited onto is no longer on the latest airport diagram, but FlightAware still has the version from February, and you can see where Z was.

[@-AV8R-]

Should definitely be a Pilot Deviation as the closure was on the ATIS and the controller gave them specific exiting instructions.

[@jakeoesterreich8037]

Believe it or not the closure was not on the ATIS

[@TheGlobalTravelr]

Taxiway closure is probably buried in the notams.

[@pattyhaley9594]

Yes, AND where is Victor?

[@darrenhenderson3]

The second controller seemed very frustrated rightfully so… I wonder why the a/c that caused the entire issue didn’t get a brasher for causing so many problems

[@CapStar362]

So he works in the tower, but doesn't know if signage or otherwise markings still exist that indicate it may still be open? don't these guys have binoculars and regular inspections of their airfields? Someone in Airport Ops failed to properly ensure this then and notify Tower and the NOTAM.

[@maxmustermann194]

Oof

[@P90F55]

Humans want accients even if subconsciously. Why would you say "expedite" as they are approaching a closed taxiway? Why did that crew even see that taxiway? A previous crew made the same mistake yet nothing was changed. This crew is screwed but there are others who are responsible too.

[@pattyhaley9594]

Two or three things usually go wrong for each accident.

[@bartsolari5035]

Step One! Eventually "things" like this lead to Dead People and gives the NTSB an investigation. Coming to an airport near YOU. BTW the FAA is again looking for a part time administrator January 20, 2025.

[@pattyhaley9594]

It is all being looked into all of this now.

[@bridamy]

Absolutely none of that was necessary. First controller that created that mess was relieved thank God. All the first controller had to do is hold the departure from right, clear to cross left and vacate. Once cleared he could have gone into the whole I have a number for you procedure. THAT'S IT! Why would you hold a plane, closed or not, on a perfectly fine taxiway and force a dozen planes to be delayed?

[@The93Vector]

Maybe it’s not a “perfectly fine” taxiway? Depending on how long it’s been permanently closed, there’s signage, FOD, missing asphalt.regardless of what the graphic shows, the escort may have needed to route them around hazardous conditions. You’re right, though, none of that was necessary….if the pilot had exited Victor as instructed.

[@VASAviation]

Are you a real ATC for LAX? Do you even know the procedures of the field? So you know the pavement conditions of the closed exit?

[@CVON12]

Yeah I'm not going to clear an aircraft on a closed taxiway and tell him to continue taxi. If something happens, damage to his aircraft, or anything. The controller would be at fault. So no, he needs to get airport ops out there to ensure it is safe for him since it is closed. The controller did everything right.

[@Michael_K_Woods]

Never take for granted a “closed taxiway” is clear. It could have FOD accumulated on it, have been used as staging for construction, or have inactive lights.

[@The93Vector]

It could also just straight up have jersey barriers or illuminated “X” signs across it; which would need to be moved before a plane could continue to taxi.