Controller GETS MAD AT STUDENT PILOT for Following Rules!

[@VASAviation]

Loved that student pilot's attitude! Also good on ATC for finally accomodating the guy!

[@bludybrains]

Hey Victor. Was wondering if we should send video recommendations to your email in your channel description?

[@VASAviation]

@@bludybrains send all the info to the email

[@bludybrains]

@@VASAviation i sent one last week to you about a taxiing event in KMLB. But never got a response. Im wondering if my email didnt go through.

[@steven2145]

Sounded more like an instructor.

[@charlesprenaveau4969]

@@steven2145it was me. At the time was just a PPL. Since then have gone on to get my CSEL.

[@Astro95Media]

Student pilot handled that beautifully and professionally and it softened the controller up pretty well so he could recover from the frustration. Fantastic exchange which could've easily gone south.

[@ValNishino]

Sounds like he's got a future in aviation. It takes a fair bit of intelligence to respond with that kind of coherence on a dime in a situation like this.

[@phildernerjr]

Great young pilot.

[@BrianMonette]

Facts. I admire this. Following the rules can save your life someday. That controllers petty mood shifted so fast, it’s comical.

[@Pip2andahalf]

Yeah honestly exemplary from that student. Stayed calm and collected.

[@JeshuaFlores-du1xv]

good thing it went west!

[@johnopalko5223]

Practically speaking, a four-knot tailwind on a 10,000 foot runway would be no big deal. However, if you violate the SOP once and get away with it, it becomes tempting to violate it again, possibly with a stronger tailwind. It's called "normalization of deviance" and you don't want to go there. Kudos to the student pilot for refusing the clearance to 9R. I understand the controller's frustration but he did the right thing by updating the ATIS and turning the flow around.

[@twentynineteen4687]

100% agree

[@fyrfyter33]

Normalization of deviance is what caused the Challenger shuttle disaster. There’s a really good video about it and normalization of deviance.

[@wdtaut5650]

"Normalization of deviance", haven't heard that one before. I like it.

[@johnopalko5223]

@@wdtaut5650 The phrase was coined by American sociologist Diane Vaughan in her 1996 book _The Challenger Launch Decision: Risky Technology, Culture, and Deviance at NASA._ It's an extremely useful concept for explaining how people get into situations that one would think they would know to avoid.

[@wdtaut5650]

@@johnopalko5223 Thank you.

[@charlesprenaveau4969]

Hey this was me lol 😂😂I have since got my CSEL and can accept a 5kt tailwind per sop lol

[@XetraRewop]

Congrats!! Expect more “mad” controllers throughout your career 😅

[@BlackOpSource]

Not your fault or anything but I gotta be honest, not being able to take a 5kt tailwind is super dumb. But their airplane their rules I guess.

[@--SPQR--]

​@@BlackOpSourceit's dumb until it's not SOPs sometimes appear overkill until you learn about why they were implemented

[@BlackOpSource]

@@--SPQR-- The plane comes with an SOP, it's called the POH and is required to be in the aircraft. Every airplane I can recall flying had performance information for tailwinds up to 10 knots on both takeoff and landing. This restriction was put there by the insurance company, who for safety reasons would prefer that you never fly the airplane at all.

[@garrettjohnson797]

This is incompetent and dangerous. Not your fault, but the schools.

[@davidmichael5573]

Student said the magic word “unable.” And gave his reason. Controller didn’t like it and definitely showed that he didn’t like it. But student stuck to his word. Well done by the student. He showed PIC. And I totally understand why the controller was frustrated with this but he understood the situation as well once explained.

[@Krakaet]

Channeling his inner Sully.

[@idkjames]

I woulda told him Titusville north 16 nm. See ya. Im a CPC and a license holder thats obscene. Need to update their SOP so id punish their students everytime. Did my PPL training at a one way in one way out field took tailwinds a lot as a student pilot.

[@StolenJoker84]

@@idkjamesYou can’t punish the pilot for following SOPs. Their SOP might be stupid and not make any sense, but I’m sure there’s a reason.

[@idkjames]

@@StolenJoker84 dont have to reverse flow either

[@AnorexicPandas]

I think that was the IP talking? Either way yes good airmanship, MLB is infamous for being short with students.

[@acirinelli]

Knowing and following SOP and clearly communicating. This guy is ready for the airline world.

[@KoiranenAerospace]

To work in an airline with similar idiotic SOP. This kind of operations should not be even allowed.

[@MikkoRantalainen]

@@KoiranenAerospace This student obviously has the skills to be able to communicate within the company to fix the SOP.

[@georgesheffield1580]

Atc sloppy actions and como

[@uy7munir]

boom shakalaja there it is. praise jsus.

[@TheMountain295]

Student pilot did an amazing job. Great communications everything was crystal clear.

[@jimmiller5600]

FIT42 was top notch. You could hear the other students wobble a bit. Because they're students................ good luck to all of them.

[@RyanSymancek]

That ended up kinda fine on both ends. I thought the controller asking “you can’t take a 4 knot tailwind on a 10,000ft runway?” was kinda funny. Didn’t seem mad, I mean the man has a point! Glad it didn’t get crazy heated and they all just worked together. It seemed pleasant at the end honestly.

[@RichFreeman]

I don't know what he was flying, but I remember doing my first landing on a 10k runway in a 172. I was a brand new pilot but with the giant flat grass leading up to the runway it was like easy mode. I think we were reconfigured for taking back off before we got past the touchdown zone markers.

[@RyanSymancek]

@@RichFreeman He’s flying a Cherokee, so same idea haha!

[@ro-86alkonost78]

We once had a tailwind landing with a 172 on a runway which is much shorter than 10,000ft without overshooting the landing roll, so I'm sure the student won't overshoot if he's flying a similar aircraft, but if he's not allowed to do it because it's a rule in his company, then he shouldn't do it, or he'll get in trouble for that. At least the controller was open for amending the instructions so that the student won't violate his company rule.

[@thedownwardmachine]

Yeah the controller seemed annoyed but no real issues. And the question was fair, he can't know the SOP for every outfit.

[@AwestrikeFearofGods]

Not only do tailwinds affect the length of the ground roll, but also yaw stability (i.e. ground loops). This rigid policy would make sense for non-steerable tailwheel aircraft, because tailwinds decrease rudder authority during ground roll.

[@AryaShoa]

Good on the student for sticking to their SOP's even if winds seem relatively benign. Safety in aviation is built on adherence to safe & consistent practices, even though it may sometimes be tempting to just "send it". The controller wasn't really a bad person in this either. He had to get the airliner, who was already inbound for 9, down on the ground before he could switch the traffic flow. Sure he could've been a little "nicer" in the beginning, but it seems tensions cooled down at the end there.

[@jamescollier3]

probably sick of the students and his job also

[@patriotsfan1236]

I mean it was not unsafe at all to land with a 4th tail wind on a 10k foot runway. I commend him for following his schools procedures though.

[@stevecarroll6760]

Follow the procedures and you’ll almost always be safe. The tower guy knew it, and he accepted it in the end it was the right thing to do.

[@zone2Ironman]

SOP: don’t land with tailwind Tower: ??? Other guy: your wind readouts are garbage. Tower: true. Sounds like an issue that this particular school is on top of.

[@Kincentc]

Inaccuracies go both ways tho.... if the rule is for tailwind safety, how does it guard against an incorrect headwind from the tower that is actually a tailwind?

[@mrjaycam18]

@@Kincentceasy answer. Liability. These convos are obviously recorded so the student would be in the clear if they were given a headwind but it turned out not to be. Not their fault.

[@Kincentc]

@@mrjaycam18 legally correct but still silly to invent a rule around a bad windspeed readout

[@artemkras]

@@Kincentc It seems like this is how humanity generally works )

[@unclebounce1495]

Makes perfect sense. If they have a habit of inaccurate wind readings, the only ones that are going to matter are when the wind readings are low. So it becomes a pattern of low wind readings (i.g. you said 5, it was 15. you said 15, it was 30, so on) So it makes sense for a local school to say "we set out limit extra low to cover the potential high variance of their BS equipment." If we say you said accept a wind reading of higher than 4, than that could cover up to 8 or 12 for their shyt equipment. Makes perfect sense. What's sad is if there are others who don't care enough to do that.

[@bad05ford]

Excellent communication by the student and good job sticking to procedures

[@UpAndReady]

That honestly went about as well as it could have. Controller doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, but no GA plane should ever expect to just mosey on over to an airport with airline ops and expect them to bend over backwards for an overly conservative flight school SOP. Good on FIT42 for being amenable to holding, and the controller for not having an attitude about it after the fact.

[@Apollo580]

I mean the tower was still being passive aggressive throughout the entire time afterwards, just not towards 42.

[@someguyontheinternet7165]

The flight school is based out of there. Most tower controllers have some familiarity with their local school’s overly conservative rules for things like tail winds and LAHSOs. Felt real goofy the day I had to tell the Bradley international controller I was unable to accept a LAHSO when its distance was 50% longer than the entire runway my flight school was based out of.

[@bbgun061]

This isn't JFK. AirNav says Melbourne has 284 operations per day, of which 4% (or 11) are commercial. I trained at KPIE, which has many more airline ops and the controllers never had any problems accommodating us. Sometimes we had to circle or extend downwind to fit into the flow. But I never would have heard something like this.

[@jockspringer9457]

@@bbgun061 Correct. FIT is most of the daily traffic there

[@RichFreeman]

​@@someguyontheinternet7165do those flight schools clear their procedures with the FAA? I mean, anybody with an instructors license could give a student a crazy instruction and it isn't like ATC has to honor it unless the pilot wants to declare an emergency. There is certainly no FAA regulation preventing pilots from landing with a tail wind without a commercial license. It is pretty common for commercial airports to operate with slight tailwinds if it fits their normal patterns.

[@maxmustermann194]

That's hardly mad, rather mildly frustrated.

[@courgettee]

Must be a slow news day :) not a bad thing in aviation

[@maurice7413]

telling him he can go to another airport seemed a bit more than "mildly frustrated."

[@blimpcommander1337]

@@maurice7413 not knowing when he could get them in he gave them an option.

[@nokidding152]

He was rude and unprofessional. Sure not yelling angrily, but more than mildly frustrated.

[@zq3yp]

@@plinsf its not clickbait, go read comments farther down from here, multiple people have stated MLB controllers are unhinged.

[@ryancrazy1]

"tower if you can tell me that winds are calm, i can take 9R..."

[@theegg-viator4707]

😁

[@Relkond]

That's practically asking him to lie...

[@t_t5222]

​@@Relkond you're a quick one

[@Relkond]

@@t_t5222 nah - the quick one would have noted that lying and subterfuge in aviation has a greater tendency to kill than not doing those things.

[@--SPQR--]

​@@MrCrackbearno, the quick one would not be debating what being quick means in YT comments of all places Wait...

[@bradmikkelsen8960]

ATC was a fine guy, he even apologised, probably just had a bad day.

[@mattmcginn8096]

Yeah don't see a big issue here. Mild annoyance at a pretty unusual request, then worked to get him in quickly and safely. "You might want to go to a different airport" honestly is an appropriate reccomendation if your SOP prevents you from landing with ANY tail wind and this is a field with major airlines.

[@SuperMyacc]

He didn't apologize. "The different airport" was a bit out of line, not a big issue tho.

[@billymacktexasdetective5827]

You must be commenting on the wrong video. ATC didn't apologize for anything in this video.

[@brian.webster]

He's not a "fine guy". His initial attitude is dangerous. If he did it here, it is very likely that it represents a pattern of behavior. He's letting his emotions impact his performance and that's not what we need with ATC

[@TylerEaves]

@@brian.webster Isn't the overly familiar chit chat at the end a break of proper communication hygeine too? The entire frequency doesn't need to hear "have a nice night guys" to a plane already on the ramp.

[@Apollo580]

I initially thought the tower was going to be passive aggressive the rest of the time but he actually showed quite a bit of class towards the end. Good on The student to set the standard.

[@marklupus]

MLB controllers talk to these guys every day. Many I'm sure are friend with the controllers so it wouldn't do any good to act a fool. Kind of odd that he only learned of that school's tailwind policy during this occasion.

[@Apollo580]

@@marklupus I’m surprised about that too. Normally that’s something airport operations are very aware of. Either way this was a much better outcome than what the title suggests.

[@isilver78]

I've been based at MLB for ~30 years. The tower gets a bad rap with the flight training community but they have to put up with a lot. Since the tower went contract, they've been chronically understaffed and the flight training traffic is at its peak. Over the years I've heard some pretty bad exchanges but recently, to their credit, the controllers seem to have become more patient. I've flown thousands of flights out of there, and I've only dealt with a controller having a bad day a handful of times. They're human.

[@captainchaos3667]

What does "went contract" mean?

[@aaawac2174]

​@@captainchaos3667 The FAA contracts a company to hire controllers instead of the FAA hiring the controller themselves

[@flightsimguides]

the frustration was real on that one, "you can't do a 4 knot tailwind landing on a 10k foot runway?"... I felt that eyeroll from the other side of my monitor, lol

[@jbreezy101]

Meteorologist here. If the wind readouts Are Bad. The station has to be downgraded to AWOS until it is fixed Or use the $ in the text message

[@jurgengjidia8657]

Why is it spaced like it’s supposed to be an acronym?

[@jbreezy101]

@@jurgengjidia8657 why I spaced my comment out? Just the spacebar being so close to enter.

[@RJiiFin]

@@jurgengjidia8657 Just read the first letter of each line. MABO!

[@reddragonflyxx657]

​@@jbreezy101Downgraded to "automated weather observing system"? Where can I look this rule (or at least the different grades of weather stations) up?

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

@@RJiiFin Yep, MABO always applies, in situations like this.

[@cfg003]

KMLB is ridiculous. I got screamed at when I was a student pilot because I did a go around... He told me not to do it again because I "mess up" his sequence. I was absolutely flabbergasted.

[@aaawac2174]

You can actually request the towers number to report the controller for unsafe behavior. It throws the whole power dynamic that tower thinks they have into a shitstorm because now they don't know what to do.

[@cfg003]

@@frankfurter7260 I went around because there was still an aircraft on the runway rolling off departure. I did not feel comfortable back then. Most likely it would have worked out, but as a student pilot I did not like it

[@MaddogLexi]

Wouldn't really even call this ATC being mad. Everyone did the right thing here, ATC realized he can't force the student to go against SOP and then got the JetBlue in before changing the actives. Telling the student to hold while switching the actives was absolutely acceptable, and everyone got in no problem following that. Good work on everyone involved.

[@rffarms]

Only problem I had Tower should have never told FIT42 to squak VFR. Former FIT student Class of 76, Former ATP retired ATCS

[@ABa-os6wm]

Good work on everyond except tje guy writing thd SOP 🤣

[@AdvancedUSA]

Long ago I had just solo'd with about 18 hours of "experience" and flew to Wilmington Delaware airport. It was, and still is a small controlled field. At the time, it was tower frequency for all VFR flights. I was on a taxiway and missed my turn. Controller patiently asked me to turn around. I asked "360" and he said "180's enough". No sarcasm, just patience for a newby. It's funny how peoples memory works. After 50 years I still remember it vividly when it was no big deal - no traffic, no near miss, no nothing - just a 17 year old kid learning how to fly. It was a lot of fun back then. Philly international was just a few minutes away and things were much simpler. You had a VOR, compass, attitude indicator, rate of climb - all black circles with white lines and number. Digital was counting with your fingers. Things have certainly changed.

[@JBHRN]

Good on the student... know you limits & stick to them. The Student handled this professionally, really excellent job! The tower controller, not having his best day, ultimately accomodated the student, however the tone, word choice & non-verbal cues inconsistent w/ best CRM practices. It is not easy working w/ student pilots, but we were all there at one point in our career!

[@kpdkchristian2570]

The only way to know for sure that everything's ok is when you get a crispy SEEYA from the controller.

[@VictoryAviation]

Honestly I always smile when I hear that exchange or get one back from a controller. When the Chiefs were getting ready to play the superbowl, every once in a while someone would be handed off and they’d yell “GO CHIEFS”. And the approach and center guys would yell it back. It always made me laugh. Cool As hell. And then we won the superbowl again 😍

[@lostship88]

Just like the one in Truckee

[@KPMACHINE1]

I’m not sure I would consider him mad. I consider this a perfect quick and professional conversation between pilot and ATC. Everyone on both sides should learn from this. That’s why I’m here! Thanks VAS!

[@vanessaruiz4705]

i mean,he literally told him to go to another airport. How is that professional?

[@rubenjanssen1672]

wel if the controler knows he can not acomodate that might be the best option as piston powerd aircraft have a defined time they can be up in the sky @@vanessaruiz4705

[@alexmozie6301]

ahh, the "ssSSEEYUH" signoff, the ultimate sign of respect between pilot and controller. best possible ending imo for something that couldve turned ugly

[@johndee3868]

Very pro behaviour from the pilot, and good on ATC for lightening up.

[@EricTheBlue2010]

Of course the cirrus calls in without the atis

[@jeremey2072]

They fly by their own rules 😅

[@piff57paff]

Are Cirrus like BMW of the skies or what? ^^

[@shadowscall7758]

​@piff57paff somewhat. Cirrus planes are more expensive because they have fancier stuff, but I love some of it. For example, they have a side stick like Airbus instead of a traditional yoke and I love it. The biggest reason though is safety. Cirrus planes have a CAPS system, which is a parachute for the plane. Its great because if something happens to the pilot, other passengers like kids or family that don't fly aren't screwed. They can activate the parachute.

[@thenowhere4882]

Of course cirrus guy is making shit jokes and hogging the frequency...

[@DataRew]

There are a lot of comments about how well the student handled this, and he did, but this ATC really needs to be talked to about this behavior, especially to students (and this guy was well prepared too!). This demonstrates a worrying disregard for following rules that were established for a reason, when we have had the accident rates we've had in aviation over the past few years.

[@toddw6716]

Oh, this pilot is going to be a gem.

[@MrDirigible]

I love this channel, I’ve lived in the Melbourne area since 2017, was not expecting to see a video on MLB, good on all parties involved, excellent communication and attitudes to handle things appropriately. I’ve seen other videos where this same kind of interaction results in massive fights.

[@TheLikeys]

It took me way too long to realise this is Melbourne, Florida and not Australia and was so irritated by the American tail number xD

[@brianglendenning1632]

Yes I was wondering too

[@daveynitro]

“Do whatever you want to do”… TBH, if I were to hear/receive THAT being given out as a “clearance” by a controller, I would wanna take myself to another airport (as the controller suggested). What a joke

[@comfortchen]

I'm also at flight school in FL we all try to keep away from this airport unless needed everyone knows this tower is aggresive on the radio

[@zq3yp]

I wish the people making these comments were farther towards the top. no one understands KMLB controllers are some of the worst in the state

[@thugduck825]

I’m happy I am seeing this I fly to MLB many times and one of them in particular with the souther accent is very snarky and rude. Even when you follow their directions they still bark at you when they are in the wrong and never apologize. I heard they are understaffed so I understand how stressful it can get for them.

[@zq3yp]

@@thugduck825 I don’t think it has anything to do with staffing, I got my ppl here in 2019 and the controllers were just as rude. They hate their jobs. Who wants to control an airspace full of brand new students, most being foreign, and the occasional airliner every 5 hours.

[@thugduck825]

@@zq3yp true but if I was a controller it would be a great airport to gain experience kind of like how we go to the regionals to build that turbine time

[@roysmith5902]

Yeah, great work on the part of the student, and the radio work couldn't have been better. Airlines have all sorts of company-specific limitations and controllers are (or at least should be) used to one pilot saying "unable" when offered the same clearance the previous pilot had just accepted. A pilot should never be afraid to refuse a clearance if they need something else.

[@randall39]

The controller was a little harsh a first and the pilot handled it well. Glad to hear the controller ease up and be real cool. That is good training for a student pilot, because you have to be ready for every type of controller.

[@jimmiller5600]

Congrats to everybody for working stuff out. Good job.

[@omidMPG]

That FIT42 pilot is beyond professional, he handled it like a champ

[@markweston5653]

I instructed for FIT. This controller has always been this way. He's had several heated phone and radio conversations through the years

[@NoahsBox]

Yeah, its silly that the flight school wont allow that, but at the same time, its the school's aircraft, the pilot has to play by those rules.

[@flyjetway]

I fly at Epic Flight Academy and we try to avoid going to Melbourne when we can due to behavior like this. I remember one night we requested a Stop and Go, which we did and it was approved. We stopped for 3 seconds before taking off again and the controller gave us a hard time saying we didn't stop like we were supposed to

[@zq3yp]

yea i flew with Melbourne Flight Training and heard issues on the radio daily from mediocre events that the controllers brought out of proportion.

[@ocscmike]

I love ya Victor but don't jump the shark and get all click baity on us. You could call him annoyed but the all caps MAD AT STUDENT PILOT is a bit of a stretch. 🤣

[@theegg-viator4707]

Exacccttttly

[@VASAviation]

My opinion, my titles. Also based on the email from the follower. You should check out the vast majority of commenters locals from MLB. Calling clickbait is your own opinion too :)

[@budguy21]

@@VASAviation its ALL of our opinion

[@theegg-viator4707]

@@VASAviationAmerican English Apparently is NOT your mother language. You need to study / educate yourself more about the meaning of the word “mad”…. 🤷🏼

[@Monkeyflyer]

MLB has some of the rudest controllers dealing with flight training…

[@luschmiedt1071]

Great video for showing that conext matters. If you had cut off the video after the first exchange i would have a very different opinion of the controller 😅

[@VASAviation]

Exactly!

[@danwybrow7226]

FIT42 was completely professorial the whole time and 3CK did an AWESOME job getting the controller to really loosen back up. This is how it should be done when frustrations arise 🤘🏻

[@danwybrow7226]

… and as a 141 student, I TOTALLY get why FIT42 had to stand firm. 😅

[@billorgeorgesmith8700]

When doing my 10 night landings for my ppl at kafw wind was 18 @ 12 G18. They were landing heavies on 18 so they put me on the parallel. My very first downwind landing was at night. We did stop n goes to save time and get that box checked. 4th lap one of those gusts picked us up and carried us about 3,000’ down the runway. Still had plenty of room, but the controller instructed me to make a Rt 180 in the downwind and start using 36. It was a good evening.

[@vlee3880]

I’m sure that student pilot earned Doc’s respect for his professionalism that night.

[@ChristopherT_]

Is Squidward flying FIT36? 😂

[@sprolyborn2554]

Learning to differentiate between what rules are there for safety and which ones are there for the regulating body to cover their butts is part of becoming a professional. If you strictly adhere to EVERY single rule, down to every single minute technicality, then you just wont fly. At all. Thats the only way to ensure you dont violate any rule. Is to not get in the aircraft in the first place. To give you an example, as a ship captain, if a jet ski is barreling toward my ship with the intention of running into me for whatever reason, if he hits me, i share fault. Even though im hailing on the radio, sounding danger signals, doing whatever limited evasive maneuvers i can do, its still my fault. Why? Because the CG will look straight at me and ask "why didnt you try to hail him sooner?" Doesnt matter if i started calling 5 miles out they'll say i should've started at 6. If it was 10 they'll say it should've been 11. Etc. That is an example of a rule meant to cover a regulatory bodys butt more than it is for you to adhere to. That tailwind rule is similar. It's to give the investigating body something to blame and write down on the report if something were to happen and they couldn't actually find any real reason.

[@TheTiktok4321]

School SOPs are as enforceable as FARs. This is my home field, and I hear these controllers get so frustrated - especially with some of the international students. And this was one of the calmer controllers. PILOTs decide what they can accept, NOT the controllers.

[@JackedRado71]

Either that is a very seasoned “student,” or the instructor was running comms. That was cleaner than some of my better days. Luckily the cirrus guy lightened the mood

[@charlesprenaveau4969]

I was solo. At the time, I had roughly 200 hours. Since then, I have gotten my CSEL and am working on CFI.

[@SuperEddietv]

Cirrus guy was a dick.

[@JRNation8988]

I wouldn’t exactly call the controller mad; Just annoyed. Pilot did what he needed to do, though. Don’t break the rules just because ATC says “you’ve got 10,000 ft of runway”. Chances are they would have been fine, but if something happened the pilot would be at fault for breaking SOP. ATC can’t force you to accept a landing clearance.

[@Cherry8807]

Now that I'm hearing this, I'm glad I never went to Melbourne when I did my training at 'Red Tale' lol. But doing my flight training in New Smyrna Beach was awesome! Best time of my life :D Wish I could go back there.

[@ryancrazy1]

but yeah can we get a round of applause for these guys. Frustrating day/delay but got it resolved with no hard feelings.

[@grayrabbit2211]

+1 for this student for standing their ground! You're PIC. Most controllers ARE NOT pilots. Don't let them put you in an undesirable position. Fatalities have happened that way. I was fortunate that my primary training happened at an airport with a notoriously cranky tower guy, even some KZbin videos of is rants and screaming. My CFI told me to just give it right back to him. I'm glad I did. I'm on the timid side of things, but "unable" has saved me from being in a position I didn't want to be in.

[@PavelKrupets]

landed with tail wind on large runway (KBFI) as a student a lot. airport won’t allow landing in the other direction as sister airport dictates landing direction (KSEA).

[@todddembsky8321]

THANK YOU Victor !!! These are wonderful videos. love how everyone ends up working together!!

[@Spartan536]

Interesting school SOP, my school allows student pilots a 5 knot max tail wind, once you get a PPL that increases to a 10 knot tailwind. 99.9% of the time you have a headwind with a crosswind of some kind .. unless you are out at KCHN and then it's just a crapshoot as to what kind of variable wind you get.

[@JarrodFLif3r]

I went to FIT but couldn't afford their flight school. I am from the Space Coast and familiar with the area and Melbourne airport. It is nice to see their flight students doing it right, staying professional despite the less than professional ATC.

[@UpYourArsenal]

Ah, my local airport. No updates to tech since Northrop barely uses the runways anymore and can't run it's tests as they used to giving reason to pay for upgrades, but the easiest place to rent a car out of for work related travel. Good for the airshows, though.

[@aaawac2174]

The terminal is about to get a $40mil upgrade to it at the end of June because the commercial traffic is increasing. So I wouldn't say it's running out of money.

[@TmanTV3]

MLB never changes. Student pilots have been taking crap from that tower ever since that tower was built. I've even gotten yelled at by them as an airline pilot lol.

[@Blue_Camera_Cat]

What an interesting conversation!

[@MinistryOfMagic_DoM]

Anyone notice JetBlue readback their turn incorrectly when exiting the runway? Curious if the tower just sent themthe wrong direction for their ramp? Surely JetBlue would know the direction they should go.

[@danielt1g3r75]

The asking if he couldn't land with a tailwind also confirmed he didn't have wrong informations about the weather which could have been the reason ge wanted another runway (from the view if the atc) .... Asking never hurts

[@jaymigs4945]

I have been flying out of MLB for 31 years. I have flown into 95 airports in Florida so I think I can say I have a good data base to compare to. I can personally attest that for some reason MLB hires the snarkiest, most short tempered, most unprofessional and sarcastic controllers in the state. Most of the operations are here are training flights. "FIT XXX" are all Florida Institute of Technology students. It is primarily a training field. the new Melbourne Flight Training also has about 30 planes and has added to the training flights in recent years. The controllers know this, and instead of having more patience with student pilots that have little experience and maybe less self confidence than us old guys, they instead berate and belittle them with sarcasm. Totally rude and unprofessional at best and at worse unsafe. Rile a student badly enough and he is going to screw up and kill himself and or someone else. This particular controller is OK....IF you don't make a mistake or question him. He's relatively new. When he first started he was more polite and professional, but he has drank from the ass@#%* Coolaid and joined the MLB ATC Pilot Haters Club. I spoke to the tower manager about his controllers during the open house for the new tower and when I said his controllers were rude and unprofessional, especially to students he said "I know, we're working on it". That was 5 years ago. 'Nuf said. To be fair they aren't all terrible. There is one controller here that is a Gem who I have personally met and he is as pleasant in person as he is on the radio, but I haven't heard his voice in quite a while so maybe he retired. Maybe this controller needs to find another airport to work at if he doesn't like dealing with students, especially ones that follow the rules.

[@bluehorseshoe9216]

don't feel bad, i got chastised by ATC in an airliner for declining a tailwind landing on a short runway due to performance. I still don't understand why he was so mad-the next airplane was 25 miles away and it was after midnight. I guess sometimes they have a bad day and have to take it out on someone

[@HugoWiffen]

As someone from Melbourne, Australia I have always wondered about the Melbourne USA that always comes up when you search flights

[@gerrywawra]

This is great banter love it

[@rocketman6973]

The student was perfect, the controller was arrogant and wrong. This is very concerning, especially with a student pilot who might just accept a bad clearance. It's not about a 4 knot tailwind on a long runway, it's about roles, responsibilities and safety. I've been in a few situations like this over the years (rare but it happens) and it's those times the pilot needs to remind the controller that he's not the pilot in command, as this excellent student did. The pilot and controller should work together, but the pilot is responsible for the safe completion of the flight (see FAR 91.3). For example, I was flying from OKC to CLT IFR in an unpressurized single when a line of t-storms built up over Knoxville, so Memphis Center and I discussed it and then I diverted south. On contact with Atlanta Center I was instructed to proceed direct to Knoxville. I replied, "Unable due to weather". The controller came back sarcastically with, "You can't fly to Knoxville?", to which I replied, "Unable due to the line of thunderstorms I just vectored 80 miles south to get around, request direct CLT (I was on a GPS direct clearance)". Another, more mature voice came on and asked "Sir, can you accept direct Spartanburg VOR then direct?" "Yes sir, I can do that!" Again, most controllers are great and many more times I've had great experiences with controllers going out of their way to help, but this arrogant attitude should never be acceptable. It's counter to aviation safety and should be actively discouraged.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

The controller was quite rude and sarcastic. I don't find that acceptable... especially since the pilot was perfectly polite.

[@CAPFlyer]

I actually understand the tower's frustration here. That SOP is super conservative to the point of, in my opinion, being detrimental to the skill building of the student pilots they are training. I could understand a restriction to like 5 knots for a tailwind of any runway under 5,000' or something like that, but not allowing *any* tailwind until they get a Commercial is just asking for problems if they choose not to continue and not having the skills, much less the judgement to understand how to land with a tailwind. There are many airports, especially in hilly/mountain areas (which are a lot of the US despite popular belief) where you *have* to land with a tailwind. Not knowing how to do that from early in your flying career? Unacceptable.

[@tedsaylor6016]

This (IMHO) stupid rule/procedure is because the Flite School (FIT) wants to kick as much risk down the road as possible. It was written by committee and has no provision for runway length or actual risk decision making by the pilot. So the actual pilots are treated with "kid gloves" rules until at some point in the future they will need to deal with a real "adverse situation". Flite schools here in Phoenix have rules against taking the planes to Payson or (god forbid) Sedona due to the "challenge" involved. I hope these new fangled pilots don't fold up when actually flying the line and things don't go to "procedure".

[@josh3771]

Agree, with a 10k/ft runway not being able to accept a 4knot tailwind seems inappropriate. Defeats the spirit and meaning of why the rule exists.

[@thomasdalton1508]

I would guess it is imposed by their insurance company. The insurance company doesn't want to pay to fix planes that students crash by landing fast. A long runway doesn't matter if you veer off the runway.

[@CAPFlyer]

@@thomasdalton1508 If it's insurance doing it, then they need to find a new insurance company because that's only guaranteeing future claims. I can understand not wanting to let students fly off actual grass strips, especially in aircraft with wheel pants, until they get their PPL. I can't understand removing *basic* flying skills from training. How to handle a tailwind is just as important if not more important that learning how to land with a crosswind. It's unacceptable to remove that training from the basic syllabus.

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@CAPFlyer It's probably not the insurance company, but the school's willingness to pay the necessary insurance premiums. It is expensive to insure students to fly your planes, but that is a cost of doing business as a flying school. I'm guessing they are unwilling to accept that.

[@fontcaicoya5686]

For context, it's Fleet Week out here on the Florida Coast. Air traffic is currently pretty active, especially along the coastal airports what with GA folks flying in for the festivities, tourists on commercial airliners, and the U.S. Navy (aircraft included) arriving en masse for their showcase. That pilot AND the ATC both handled themselves wonderfully considering the circumstances.

[@aaawac2174]

This is about 1.5hrs flying or 3hrs driving from fleet week and MLB isn't that busy. They only get 10 commercial flights a day with 2 international charters and that's only on Saturday. Every other day is less busy. This starts at 6am and ends at midnight so spread across 18hrs it isn't as busy to passenger traffic

[@stevejh69]

FIT42 this is one of those occasions when you are going to have a long day. Because you need to drive to the tower and wait. Follow the controller out to the airport and deal with him so he never acts like a phat, useless slug ever again. You will be doing everyone else a favour.

[@Ifly96]

If he accepts the tailwind and something even unrelated to the tailwind happens, the student will get screwed. Good for him for standing up. The controller works to make our lives easier, not to force us to break SOPs.

[@jaredh723]

I love shit like this. Controller was slightly frustrated and I understand his point and the student handled it like a boss. Everyone was able to have a good laugh at the end. Good on everyone

[@Harrison1Bergeron]

pretty sure that aircraft is from a university on that field. controller should learn the schools SOPs because they will deal with this again

[@artykohl1118]

I went off the end of a 4,000 foot runway when a 30 + knot headwind swung the.sock 180 degrees and became 30 + tailwind, slightly from the left, just as I touched down, at Buckeye, Arizona. As I flaring I think I ate up 1,000 feet, and then every time I put on the brakes the plane wanted to turn right, and go off the runway. I'd let go, and keep rolling fast, put on the brakes and head off the shoulder, brakes off l, straight for the end. I finally went into the soft dirt at the end, and off roaded the plane out of there. Later, in evaluating myself, I realized that I didn't hold the controls right on the ground roll, for the direction the wind was coming from and it was lifting my left wing so that the left main was not getting as much traction as the rignt. Embarrassed.

[@DB-rc9ln]

Yup, sounds like Melbourne tower

[@KayoEll]

Who was mad? I didn't hear anyone who sounded mad, and I'm a Minnesotan. We're known for being oversensitive to people being "mad" at us. It's not as though the ATC was making excuses. He made a statement about the reliability of their equipment when it comes to wind speed. The pilot acknowledged that it was a problem at this airport. Why create conflict where there is none? There's enough conflict in the world.

[@svoffcay9231]

The controller recovered but it’s one of those “ are you down there because I’m up here or am I up here because you’re down there?” “Don’t tell me how to fly the plane I’m not asking.”

[@nitramluap]

Controller was unprofessional. End of. The change in attitude makes me think a supervisor tore him a new one for that outburst.

[@femshep4018]

A real life example of air traffic control pressuring a pilot to do something they don't want to do. Well handled by the pilot. Sometimes you have to say no, its always a bit awkward, but doing something uncomfortable is the quickest way to get yourself into trouble, no matter how much pressure is put on! Speaking from first hand experience...

[@dustinengel4852]

Awesome that the student stayed calm, awesome that the controller calmed down. Great example of how important attitude is.

[@rclarkcarpenter]

The controller needs to be suspended. I’ve flown professionally for 24 years and short of a controller in the northeast I’ve never heard a singular request completely change the mood and attitude of a controller. And it went on for minutes. He needs a serious attitude adjustment. There is no place in our business for such a pouty, sarcastic and and confrontational exchange.

[@any1alive]

I love the number to call. Such a sneaky way to get pwople to line up

[@RomNYC]

Sounds like a bunch of buddies having a nice little poker game going on! 😂

[@59thfsaviation79]

Student pilot is a leader. You can hear the confidence. Well done.

[@starlite528]

Is it just me or is a 300 foot difference in the altimeter reading KIND OF A BIG DEAL?

[@randyporter3491]

This was an impressive exchange. The student here was 100% professional, said exactly the right things and did what he was asked. The controller is dealing with a lot and his frustration showed. However, in the end, the situation didn't get worse, it got better and everyone understood each other's perspective in the end. Thanks for sharing this great interaction.

[@x3wildcard]

Yeah the controller doesn't sound mad at all. At first he sounds shocked, then frustrated, but this never gets to the level of anger. That student has definite PIC energy, though, love it.

[@thatinventionsus]

FIT42 can be my wingman anytime. FIT42: "BS* you can be mine!"

[@JayNJayeTv]

There’s something surreal about the pilots and atc all signing off like they’re hopping off discord at 1am…

[@sugershakify]

You only need to no one magic word if you think a controller is telling you to do something you dont/cant/wont do ..... "unable".

[@fedex705h]

Student pilot did amazing. ATC was understanding after being given the cause. I would say this is was a very professional and accommodating environment, except for the 3rd party pilot, who was trying to start a flame, but it barely started.

[@LittleJennings38]

There’s always the “accidental hot mic button“ time out you can give the controller for a minute or two.

[@jondavid4747]

Forget SOP. Unable to accept 9R, if you have questions, please go read FAR 91.3 first.

[@Roca891]

There was no reason for the controller to be so rude to the student. I’m tired of controllers being so dismissive of GA pilots. They have as much right to the airspace as the air carrier.

[@aaawac2174]

Ironically, the biggest issue I've seen on the space coast for controllers is embry riddle students. They think they own the area and can do anything they want. When they get a PPD, they whine about it over the radio.

[@ThatAvgeekKid]

Always waited for the day to see my school on a VAS aviation video! But fr, I'm glad everything worked out

[@Caderic]

What school is it?

[@ThatAvgeekKid]

@@Caderic Florida tech

[@Caderic]

@@ThatAvgeekKid Thank you!

[@banzaiib]

"Find another airport..." Very professional

[@Chr15T]

Gets mad? Didn't notice anybody getting mad here. A simple question with an unbelieving subtone is the opposite of getting mad. But maybe it's just me being German...

[@lukecole6203]

Nice unwavering commitment to SOPs even when being challenged. He’s gonna make a good airline pilot

[@gabrielaraya824]

Worst experiences I've had with ATC have been at KMLB. I applaud this student for following SOPs. Pilots do not work for ATC, it's their job to support pilots.