Vatican leak! ALL Diocesan Traditional Latin Masses to be banned for all clergy Priests and Bishops.

[@thecatholicman]

Note. The ecclesia Dei communities will be untouched.. so no change to Icksp fssp etc… and the Pope is about to approve a new bishop for sspx .. so watch this space !!

[@MatthewThomas-ye1ei]

That last bit, new bishop for SSPX? That is huge if true! I live near NYC and go to the TLM there. There is only a Diocesan TLM that I Can get to. But if the pope approves a bishop for SSPX that will give me certainty that I can go to SSPX instead and not feel bad about it.

[@evelynmom2902]

Is there a list of ecclesia Dei communities? I’m wondering if the premonstratensian order will be affected by it.

[@thecatholicman]

@@DeliaGibbons well he has to ordain according to canon law, properly formed men. So no he can’t ordain who he likes

[@donaldc3884]

The whole reason Abp Lefevre ordained bishops is because the he didnt approve of who the vatican was pushing on him. If this Vatican/Usurper grants the SSPX a bishop you can be assured its a plant meant to destroy the SSPX. Sorry but i can not see any good coming from this Vatican right now. Its all power and control.

[@Bryanisright33]

Can't have any "schism", so total top-down control over even the SSPX bishop and whom they appoint, which buries the myth that Vatican II empowered bishops to be true successors of the apostles, not just middle-managers for the Vatican.

[@lorraineklimek1677]

Didn’t people before Vatican II have missals with English on one side of the page and Latin on the other???? That’s how I learned to pray in Latin and I can follow the proceedings of the Mass either way.

[@thecatholicman]

A minority did. Vast majority of Catholics didn’t as millions for centuries could not even read

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

@@thecatholicman I think Lorraine meant like in the 1940s and 50s, not in the previous centuries when most of the world was illiterate.

[@corrinefarrell6726]

⁠@@thecatholicmanBorn in the forties, most people had Latin/English missals from a young age. Never said the rosary during mass.

[@Hope_Boat]

You don't need that. We Orthodox practice the divine liturgy of saint John Chrysostome in English for English speaking parishes. The issue is not the language but the destruction of the rites. The removal of the tabernacle. The liturgy turned into a conference with the priest facing the assembly rather than God as part of the assembly. The desacralisation of the sacred architecture, sacred art, sacred rituals during the liturgy. The introduction of irrelevant shows with dances and other performances. The poverty of the chants and prayers compared to the immense patrimony of the Church in hymns and psalms. As a result the faithfull have no clue what the divine liturgy used to be, what the purpose was, how plentiful a spiritual experience it was. Many people who comes to an orthodox church by curiosity say they thought they were elevated to heaven and many cried during even if they didn't understand the language because it was a Greek or Russian parish. The understood their starvation because at that time.

[@ilovecatsijustlovecats3944]

I have the dual. 1958

[@giovanniserafino1731]

In many places before the Council, including Ireland and Irish American communities, Latin Mass was rushed and mumbled by the priests, while the people prayed the rosary not understanding what was taking place at the Altar. The pastoral approach was., “ Get them in and get them as fast as you can!” Traditional Latin Masses are not celebrated like that today. Most Latin Masses are sung and prayed by young priests with great devotion with the full participation of the standing room only congregations where the average age is around 35. Most Latin Mass Catholics have a better understanding of the Mass and sacraments than some priests. Fifty years of Novus Ordo Masses have produced empty churches, empty seminaries, empty convents, and ignorant Catholics who know nothing about the Catholic religion. If anything should be canceled, it should be Novus Ordo Masses not TLM.

[@thecatholicman]

Indeed and it’s because of Vatican II that even the TLM was reformed. Anyone celebrating the TLM does it properly and not rushed saying the Latin correctly and the congregation is catechised. All the TLM communities are catechised

[@blindabraxas]

The more that the faithful are catechised, the more the faithful will realize what has been done, and what some are trying to do. It seems contrary to reason to enforce unity by suppression, and this will leak out the edges until nothing is left but a mess all over.

[@slowroastedmarshmallow9226]

@@thecatholicman The ONE good thing that came out of V 2....

[@Jake4Truth]

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi: The 2019 Pew survey was preceded and followed by similar surveys done by others which found that only two percent of TLM adherents approved of sameSmarriage compared to two thirds of NOM adherents.

[@levimeyer2707]

The 69 missal has not caused empty churches, as it is the same rite as the 62 missal; it is the abuses of the 69 missal and poor catechesis that has caused empty churches

[@SkogKniv]

The latin mass: Being the only thing growing in the Church. Francis: Squash it.

[@marietta1335]

Francis did not say squash it. TC merely places regulation of diocesan TLMs under the bishops, as it should be. The former Ecclesia Dei communities are safe and thriving.

[@WT-Sherman]

@@marietta1335 Not necessarily. The Bishops have to check with Rome before any Traditional Mass can be allowed.

[@marietta1335]

@@WT-Sherman Yes, of course. Thanks for the correction.

[@marietta1335]

TC did not squash it. It only places the diocesan TLMs under the jurisdictions of bishops, as they should be. The former Ecclesia Dei communities continue to offer the TLM as their charism.

[@WT-Sherman]

@@marietta1335 The Bishops who have approached the Vatican per the dictates of TC, have been told to thin out the number TLMs. The remaining TLMs have been given drop dead dates .

[@nancyboak3039]

The Traditional will respond to this by growing!

[@thecatholicman]

Exactly, I think it will drive the law of unintended (or intended) consequences. I actually think the document is going to fire the traditional movement

[@RonBEsquire]

I agree. I'll be looking around for the nearest "Extraordinary Form" and leaving the novus ordo.

[@Bryanisright33]

Just as the surveys showed 3-5% of people actually carex about the SynodonSynodality, Fiducia Supplicans was also an epic fail. Lots of L's piling up...tells you all you need to know.

[@racheljames7]

​@thecatholicman God absolutely has His ways of bringing good things put of bad situations. This might be a felix culpa.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@RonBEsquire Well done 👏. I'm abandoning all the fake teachings about Mary and going back to Classic Christianity. 🙏🙂

[@WT-Sherman]

The Traditional Mass was being offered hundreds of years BEFORE the Council of Trent. That council just officially codified it because of competing liturgies that existed at the time.

[@thecatholicman]

Before Trent there was dozens various rites. Every country had its own.

[@Jake4Truth]

The TLM probably traces back to four hundred AD, much of it back to the first century. There are no NT scriptures nor any First century written evidence of the laity receiving the Host in the hand. As early as AD One Twenty Six, Pope St. Sixtus I affirmed that only consecrated ministers could even touch sacred vessels. Jesus consecrated Twelve Apostles and we see only them receiving in the hand, and by Tradition, Cleopas, one of the Seventy-Two, was consecrated and he touched the bread at Emmaeus.

[@Jake4Truth]

There are no NT scriptures nor any First century written evidence of the laity receiving the Host in the hand. As early as AD One Twenty Six, Pope St. Sixtus I affirmed that only consecrated ministers could even touch sacred vessels. Jesus consecrated Twelve Apostles and we see only them receiving in the hand, and by Tradition, Cleopas, one of the Seventy-Two, was consecrated and he touched the bread at Emmaeus.

[@WT-Sherman]

@@Jake4Truth You could be right. But it is extremely difficult to get the straight scoop on what was going on 2000 years ago. Seems like every source has an agenda. Especially since it involves a discipline not a doctrine. But I believe with the recent practice of lay people touching and distributing the Eucharist and the Sacred Vessels has contributed tremendously to the lack of belief and respect for the Real Presence. Thus, resulting in the current crisis of Faith. This is consistent with the often casual manner of a typical New Mass.

[@Jake4Truth]

@@WT-Sherman We go with what we know, no Sacred Scripture shows this for the laity, nothing outside of Scripture for the 1st or even early 2nd century for the laity, and anything else contrary is inferring and an argument based upon silence.

[@steved7961]

I am 77 years old and the TLM was the norm everywhere until I was about 18. I NEVER, EVER witnessed anyone saying the Rosary during Mass. Missals had both Latin and English printed side by side for anyone interested enough to own one which guided one through the parts of the Mass and we received instruction at school which provided translations and clarity, we all understood what was going on at different points in the Mass. The same Mass was said in every church in the world so the use of Latin actually aided participation for travellers. It is an outrage that the 'Mass of ages' might no longer be heard.

[@marietta1335]

You never went to Mass outside of the US and Europe before Vatican II, right? You've never been to places where people were so poor, they hardly had enough to eat, much less money to buy their own Tridentine missals, nor read nor understand English. Those people nourished their faith through praying the rosary during Mass, gazing at sacred statues and stained glass windows, and listening to substantial homilies and catechesis by priests. But now that the Mass in those places is the Novus Ordo celebrated in their own language, they are engaged in what is going on at the altar. The Readings from scripture in their own language open a vast window of understanding of what God has done and is doing for us. I'm 81 years old. I go to the TLM and personally prefers it to the Novus Ordo. But I don't junk the N.O. for what it is giving third-world people.

[@steved7961]

@@marietta1335 Scripture readings were always in the local language. Grannies and teachers taught what was going on. Mass attendances were FAR GREATER then than they are now. If your arguments were valid, it would be the other way around!!

[@marietta1335]

@@steved7961 All parts in the Tridentine Mass were/are in Latin, except the Kyrie, which is in Greek, and sermon, which is in the vernacular. But the Readings - the Epistle, the Graduale, the Tract and the Gospel were/are in Latin. In the Philippines where I came from, Mass attendances to the Novus Ordo are much, much greater than those of the Vetus Ordo.. I should know. I'm 81 years old, grew up in the V.O. and saw the chaotic transition to the N.O. But now, the N.O. is much more orderly, disciplined, and reverently celebrated and is very, very popular among the natives, much more so than the V.O. of my childhood. I favor the V.O. myself, but I must tell you the truth. I suspect it's the same thing in other third world countries.

[@steved7961]

@@marietta1335 Mass attendances have improved???? Possibly in the Philippines (though I doubt it VERY much). In Europe and the US the reduction in Mass attendance has been SPECTACLULAR since Vatican II.

[@marietta1335]

@@steved7961 Yes, in the Philippines.and I heard, in most Catholic places in Africa and Asia. I don't know if the reduced Mass attendance in Europe and the US can all be attributed to the chaos caused by transitioning from the VO to the NO. The overall secular culture has changed, or is rapidly changing, and that has much to do with it. I think.

[@nicholasosb8015]

I hope ICKSP, FSSP, SSPX are all getting ready for great expansion!

[@racheljames7]

An SSPX priest I know said, "to quote the line from the movie Jaws, we're going to need a bigger boat" 😂 and that was a few years ago.

[@StevenGianatasio]

The only problem is that the Novus Ordo attendees will come in ther hideous Attire with no real sense of Reverence and Modesty that will dilute the Parish with Weeds. 🤔 It will take years for their conversion. Unfortunately.

[@marietta1335]

@@racheljames7 SSPX is on a separate boat.

[@clavichord]

@@marietta1335 Again, there is great hatred in your comment.... why?

[@marietta1335]

@@clavichord Wut? You don't like what I'm saying because it's the truth and you see hatred where there's no hatred. Such a malicious mind. Bye and may the Lord have mercy on us.

[@catherinetaylor9035]

The reason I like attending the TLM is because of the quiet before and after mass together with the reverence during mass. At novus ordus people generally aren't preparing they are chatting with others - the same after mass. I think there is still much work to do in educating people about the mass and why we are there. I also think the TLM mass attendance will increase - I have noticed this already.

[@theresastubblefield5706]

Im hoping the TLM will spread more to the Southeast USA etc! Ours are all really new and very sparse in an area that is already anti Catholic! The 2 Diocean Parishes here have mainly 20 something year olds that make fun of all the other generations including the millinials, gen x etc! My husband and I are having trouble having a baby and the nearest one to us treats us so badly because we dont have tons of kids that we had to go to our nearest NO Parish to keep from having depression issues and all! The TLM goers really should evangelize and tell others about the TLM, safety in numbers kind of deal! Bullying and acting like they are better than those who cannot go because there is not a TLM Parish in thier state or close by etc is only fueling the fire of the closures!! Having a reverent Mass is great for all Catholics and generations!! 😊

[@followerofchristofthetrini1692]

Thank you Robert for all that you do. Yours is my favorite Catholic KZbin channel. Please pray for my young family as I continue to pray for you and yours.

[@leomullins]

I miss the Catholic Mass of my childhood. Kneeling by the sacricty rail to take the host on tongue from the priest over the paten held by the alterboy was so much more worshipful even as a child than the mindless communion host gobbling of today that I witness of the majority of Catholics.

[@adamziccardi2578]

"mindless gobbling" is going into my terminology book alongside "bogus ordo" and "female altar boys." The other name for the New Mass is "the Liturgical Half-Hour of Paul VI"

[@bsontrop]

" . . kneeling by the [ altar ] rail to take the host on tongue from the priest over the paten held by the altarboy . . . " is EXACTLY how it is done currently in the [ Anglican/ Catholic ] Ordinariate of Pope Benedict XVI.

[@a.t.c.3862]

​@adamziccardi2578 And Jesus is the liberal Jew who started it all. He was a Peronist even before Peron.

[@marietta1335]

@@a.t.c.3862 And you were there. You witnessed it all, of course.

[@leomullins]

@@a.t.c.3862 Lost sheep are the most pitiable creatures God created.

[@lawrencevandenberg7725]

Introibo ad altare Dei, ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam. This can't be banned or abolished. This is enshrined in my heart, the redeemed and sacred temple of the Holy Spirit. I am not given to understand the Blessed Trinity, I am given to love the Blessed Trinity. The ordained priesthood is given to intercede with the Blessed Trinity for the eternal salvation of our souls -- not to "catechize " the laity. The Blessed Sacrament will catechize us. The reverence of silent, holy worship will catechize us, in the Will of God's Love. God IS Love -- this is the faith we're given to live. 🕊

[@SmithsnMoz]

Keep praying 🙏..

[@EricMichaelson-r2u]

Nothing wrong praying the Rosary during the Mass, especially the Sorrowful Mysteries. You can offer your rosary for the priest who is offering the Mass to God. Nothing wrong at all.

[@bobaphat3676]

Nothing wrong but one should participate in the Mass, it is Mass.

[@TheKevin9000]

@@bobaphat3676 Who says it's not a valid way to participate in the Mass?

[@bobaphat3676]

@@TheKevin9000 Pope Paul VI, also 'invalid' is the wrong word, there are better ways to participate in Mass, you should know the most obvious way.

[@NathanMiller-p3o]

Praying quietly during Mass without the responses is in fact participation in Mass, rosary or not, it’s just now people think vocal prayer with responses to the priest is the only participation, just willingly being at Mass is participation even

[@beckyc.244]

People pray the rosary at the NO i attend. Nothing wrong with that!!

[@nanaprn7809]

This is the first time on your channel and i am most impressed, so much so that it brought me to tears (maybe it's your wonderful accent). It brought to mind the wonderful Joseph Campbell who spoke of such things in his mythology studies. The otherworldliness of turning toward the altar thoughts to Jesus rather than having the priest face the people. It provides a totally different mind and spirit.

[@einarrjamesson9643]

To my knowledge there is no TLM in my entire state. I don't understand why this happening. I am new to the faith (Easter 2024) and i genuinely cannot see why there is so much vitriol and pushback against historic Catholicism. Why are people pushing for terrible catechesis, soft, liberal theology, and uninteresed and passionless laity? I am so lucky to have a traditional and reverent priest who actively works towards authentic and faithful catechesis, and liturgy. I want from the bottom of my heart to understand this empty, modernist church

[@bennygohome4576]

I’m a recent convert too. There's only one church that has TLM near me, the next ones are over 6 hours away. I don’t understand why they’re trying to destroy the church and the Eucharist, especially the Mass that attracted me an my wife to the church in the first place

[@JohnAlbertRigali]

There are multiple TLM directories online, and they aren’t identical. If you’re looking for a TLM parish or chapel, check all of the directories that you find. The push to eliminate the TLM is one component of the push to promulgate the “vision of the Second Vatican Council”, which is riddled with errors that contravene or contradict traditional Catholic teaching. In the United States between the World Wars, Bella Dodd secretly infiltrated over 1,000 unqualified clergy candidates into Catholic seminaries - leftists, Freemasons, homosexuals, etc. It has been conjectured that at least a few of them became bishops who contributed (badly) to the Second Vatican Council. Ms. Dodd can arguably be said to have single-handedly begun the sway of the Catholic Church in the U.S. toward heterodoxy and heresy. American Catholic priests who embrace that sway are at least disinterested in if not inimical to the TLM, while American Catholic priests who oppose that sway at least support if not say the TLM.

[@spykezspykez7001]

Brief suggestion that I hope will help. 1. Find an orthodox (in the sens e of being non-heretical) Church, as much as some do not like the NO, there are some, nay, many good NO only priests. You just need to find them. 2. You can get a Tridentine missal online from places like extraordinary form (google it) in PDF format and follow live-streams (again, I recommend looking up sspx on youtube). I agree It’s not the same as being there in person, but you ‘kinda’ get to go? Maybe that might encourage you to occasionally make a trip to visit a Tridentine Mass. 3. Baltimore catechism is online in many places.

[@VirginMostPowerfull]

Brothers you are young in the faith so I will explain. The TLM is not the problem for the Pope nor the bishops, the problem is that TLM is being used to create a parallel Church which speaks schismatic statements on the Novus Ordo saying its invalid, or saying Vatican 2 is to be rejected, or even refusing to concelebrate mass with Novus Ordo priests. This is why although I love Latin I cannot in good conscience disagree with the Pope.

[@marietta1335]

@@VirginMostPowerfull Excellent post! Thank you, thank you, VirginMostPowerfull. God bless you.

[@EricMichaelson-r2u]

Just think of all the people, the orders, the convents, the priests and the sisters that left after Vatican II.

[@levimeyer2707]

If the church was in such a good place, if everyone was so well catechized and close to Jesus through this beautiful, perfect pre-69 missal, then why did so many leave the church amidst all the confusion, wouldn’t they have stayed strong in their faith and trusted the Holy Spirit and the infallible magisterium?

[@marietta1335]

@@levimeyer2707 We can't guess why they left. Some claimed they realized they didn't have the vocation they thought they had. Some have health issues. Still, some have other reasons they and God alone knew. Changes brought about by Vatican II may be a big reason for their leaving. Who knew?

[@VirginMostPowerfull]

Clearly this shows Vatican 2 was addressing a problem within the Church and effectively purged a lot of cultural and ritualist Catholics in favor of a long term solution.

[@marye7798]

For conversion of Pope Francis and the Church hierarchy 🙏😥

[@josephodoherty7864]

For conversion of people who say "for the conversion of Pope Francis and the Church Hierarchy " - speck in other's eyes; beam in one's own ??

[@marietta1335]

Amen.

[@rlhernandez1]

I’m sorry, but the use of Latin is NOT the key difference with the Novus Ordo that people imagine it to be. A faithful vernacular translation of the Traditional Mass would STILL be a completely different (and far superior) rite than the Novus Ordo.

[@sptomase]

There is an English version of the TLM but I can’t remember the name off hand.

[@racheljames7]

When you read the translations in the missal, you realise it's so different. I couldnt believe it the first time I read it. I felt like something had been kept from me on purpose.

[@sptomase]

@@racheljames7 you mean the TLM vs NO?

[@Mummy834815]

​@@racheljames7I was called to the Latin Mass for the first time about 5 years ago after leaving a N.O mass in tears. I had never thought of attending but like a bolt out of the blue this "urge" came upon me. I went that very day and the homily,based on the very same Scripture was the first wake up call. It literally could not have been more polar opposite to the love is love nonsense I'd heard just couple hours earlier. Truth is I didn't need to know everything being said in the actual canon of the Madd. I knew I was home. But afterwards,as i really let the words of the mass booklet sink in the overwhelming feeling was similar to yours. I felt such deep pain. I felt like i'd been cheated my entire life.

[@trosenthal3711]

​@@sptomase as close as you can get is the Anglican ordinariate

[@tigger-cm6zh]

Thanks Robert you explained that very well. I have to say I do prefer the Latin Mass as i see true holy reverence given to Our Lord 🙏

[@thecatholicman]

Well said!

[@a.t.c.3862]

When I pray to before an image of the Blessed Mother I always say the Prayers to Saint Joseph. She will be honored that I use him as an intercessor.

[@marietta1335]

Amen. St. Joseph is great. My favorite saint, next to our Blessed Mother.

[@bsontrop]

Thank you Robert ! . . Here is some of the 34 titles of Romano Guardini's book: Meditations BEFORE Mass [ 1939; 1956; 1993/1997; 2013 ] : "Stillness", "Silence and the Word", "Silence and Hearing", "Habit as a hindrance", Sentimentality as a hindrance", "The memorial of the New Covenant", "Reality", "Time and Eternity", "The Bread of Life", "Christ's Offering of Self", "The Truth and the Eucharist", "The Mass and Christ's Return", "EXPECTING the Lord" . .

[@terrisharp7245]

I already go to a church that is in schism with the Arch Diocese where I live. It is very difficult and causes me distress. In saying that, once God revealed the TLM to me, I cannot deny that which has been concealed from me, my whole life, that has now been revealed.i feel like I'm in a holding pattern. I did not cause this confusion and distress. I'm just trying to navigate it. May God have mercy on us all.

[@johncalla2151]

I'm not going to a Novus Ordo Mass. Don't care what kind of tricks they play.

[@Jake4Truth]

If "schismatic" trads would just become schismatic Anglicans then maybe Francis would come celebrate with them at their mass like he did in Rome! /sarc.

[@lovesrlady2]

Exactly! I can't understand why some trads will go to the Novus Ordo "once in a while." It's not pleasing to God, and it's a danger to your faith.

[@ProdigalSon70X7]

why not ? even if its done the right way? Is Jesus not present in the Eucharist? Would you rather commit sin than to not attend a NO mass?

[@davidritson2961]

You would refuse Jesus invitation to, "Eat my Body...Drink my Blood" on a matter of principle....in that case ask yourself, "would you have life within you?" Just trust God beyond reason.

[@AlasPoorEngland]

⁠@@ProdigalSon70X7 If the NO is just plain WRONG - doesn’t express the Mass itself - what’s the right way of celebrating it? Does it matter much more than a football game? I was brought up in the Tridentine Mass - vernacular version c. 1966 - embarrassing. Downhill all the way sice then … there are still idiot clergy wearing cheese hats, Mickey Mouse masks etc. if there’ s anything RIGHT about that and if Francis approves of that, I’m off to the Russian Orthodox.

[@philiphumphrey1548]

I am no fan of Latin (unfortunately my parish priest is!), but I disagree strongly with banning the extraordinary form mass. When the Church sanctioned the tridentine rite mass, it did so for all time. Likewise with the vernacular rite of the ordinary form mass, it's valid for all time. You have to accept both masses are valid otherwise you are in conflict with the authority of the Church. But when the Church forbids something it previously sanctioned, it looks stupid, and worse still people leave over it.

[@lluchadden4040]

It is a sad day when some fight over the Mass. People need to repent.

[@fr.michael9213]

The Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of America has a Western Rite Vicariate. The Priests offer the old Mass, celebrated in the vernacular.

[@etcwhatever]

​@@fr.michael9213why would you go to schismatics when the catholic Church has more than 20 other rites? Why this obsession with the Roman rite?

[@barryk6553]

@@fr.michael9213 great point 👍🏻

[@joanmarie8209]

Loved listening to you! May God Bless you ✝️❤️

[@danielagiovanazzi2055]

I think more people need to attend this year's Summorum Pontificum pilgrimage in Rome as a show of strength to the Modernist destroyers of the Church and to tell them they cannot and must not ban the true Mass. Traditiones Custodes and now this ban is from Hell.

[@jerzygutowski3170]

My grandmother was born in1890 and had no education of any kind but she never object to latin mass in latin just watched the priest and at home pray rosary Padre Pio once said "I am mediator you just stand and watch "

[@marietta1335]

Exactly. The priest, in persona Christi, represents both Christ and His Mystical Body (the people) at the offering of the Holy Sacrifice. If your grandmother just watched the priest even though she did not understand Latin, that was active participation itself. I think that was why, years ago, people referred to attending Mass as "hearing" or "listening" the Mass. I am old enough to remember people used to ask one another on Sundays, "Have you heard Mass yet?" God bless her soul. God bless us.

[@mrsb_96]

Any Mass can be reverent and beautiful, regardless of what 'order' or the distractions around us. It is on us to focus on the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, and there I find peace.

[@maddyproctor1443]

Well said. God's blessing on you!

[@marietta1335]

Amen.

[@DCo-g6q]

So why does Pope Francis take precedence over Pope Saint Pius V?

[@anguslean4058]

He doesn’t - That’s why he is acting this way He thinks by restriction and constriction and then having these orders die out he will rid the Ape of The Church of the Latin Mass.

[@a.t.c.3862]

The Power to Bind and to Loosen? Does it ring a bell at all? You know, the Gospels...

[@DCo-g6q]

@@a.t.c.3862Yes, Pope Saint Pius V bound the Catholic Church in perpetuity to observe the traditional rites.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@DCo-g6q And Pope St. Paul VI exercised his power to loosen.

[@DCo-g6q]

@@a.t.c.3862by their fruits you will know them

[@marcdeschrevel1458]

Thanks for the update, in my province in Belgium, go to church and there are almost no young people anymore, thanks to the N.O. but I'm there is TLM packed with mostly young people. The reality is that the do not accept the bullying, we do what we know was good and still is good.

[@marietta1335]

In my part of California, the Spanish N.O. is bursting with Latino children.

[@lluchadden4040]

Vatican 11 documents say that the Latin Rite is always permissible, and the Novus Ordo Mass can also be prayed. Because of this, I don't know why there is a problem with either. This is causing a schism between the far right Traditionalists and the liberal left. Between these two groups the Faithful sigh, pray, and simply say, "Go to Mass, get your relationship right with God and your sisters and brothers." I don't think it is right to dismiss either Mass.

[@racheljames7]

Being a "far right" traditionalist myself (shock horror!), I'm sick to death of people telling me I need to get my relationship with God right and check my faith by people who's customs and way of life aren't being cruelly ripped away from them and haven't got the faintest idea how it feels.

[@stuartallen8684]

I totally disagree with any restriction whatsoever of the TLM. It should always be available for those who prefer it. But…the NO is valid, Christ is Truly Present in the Blessed Sacrament at any Holy Mass using correct words of Consecration; specifically “This is my Body”…”This is my Blood”…etc. (correct?) Personally, I find the TLM baffling…I’d be one of those guys praying the Rosary. Don’t necessarily see anything wrong with that…Carthusian lay-brothers still do while their Ordained brethren celebrate in Latin.

[@marietta1335]

Thank you. I appreciate the thing you say about Carthusian lay brothers; I didn't know that. God bless you.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@stuartallen8684 You either pray the Mass, or the Rosary - they're not the same, and they're very far from equal.

[@stuartallen8684]

@@a.t.c.3862 I never said they were. As I find it difficult to follow the TLM, once I’ve ‘lost my place’ (ie the Priest’s ability to speak Latin has outpaced my ability to read it, or he’s jumped ahead to an alternative prayer and left me floundering in his wake) I’m no longer able to properly and prayerfully participate in that Holy Mass. Praying the Holy Rosary would therefore represent a viable and useful alternative under such circumstances. After the Holy Mass itself, and although of course not it’s equal, the Holy Rosary is the greatest of prayers.

[@marietta1335]

@@stuartallen8684 LOL! I often had the same problem at the TLM, but don't we worry. The liturgy is a "public work," not a personal prayer. It's the entire Church, as Christ's Bride, participating in the eternal Sacrifice of the Bridegroom, so we get caught up in the spirit of it all. The important thing is our presence there. Whether we keep up with the priest's actions, praying the rosary, or just prayerfully listening, I believe, is participation enough. God bless you.

[@stuartallen8684]

@@marietta1335 Thank you, and God bless you too ❤️✝️🙏

[@woeherald7455]

They can't unilaterally ban that mass.

[@thecatholicman]

At a diocesan level they can

[@dermotquigley356]

​​@@thecatholicmanNo, Robert they can't ban it any level. Please refer to my detailed comment above.

[@vascoporfiado5705]

Abusing their powers they can​@@thecatholicman

[@sptomase]

The Pope can ban it if he wants. The first Mass was a love-feast there was a lot of abuses and it was eventually banned. So yes he can but no he shouldn’t.

[@Divinemercytx]

​@sptomase that's weird... love feast? What are you talking about? I went to the TLM before Vatican 2 and it was beautiful

[@ceciliavondehn4402]

Why was it ever deemed difficult to follow the liturgy of the Traditional Mass in Latin? If attending a Mass at all, each country had their language available alongside the Latin. It is wonderful to know the same reverend untampered liturgy can be followed from country to country. One can be distracted or uninvolved and say a rosary during any mass if not aware of why one is there.

[@marietta1335]

It was not difficult to follow. But it was suppressed for close to 40 years. Pope Benedict XVI says restoring the TLM is an act of justice.

[@michaelcontreras148]

I will go to any mass because the body of Christ is present

[@marietta1335]

Me, too. God bless you, Michael.

[@bornbranded29]

The problem with your claim that people aren't catechized is that you're not emphasizing personal responsibility and diligence. I'm coming on 1 year as a Catholic. I go to mass weekly, go to confession, pray, have picked up Latin very nicely. People are pitifully lazy.

[@johnnybgood5836]

where's the welcoming all comers sinners all...? .... doesn't include Latin Mass devotees?.......get that jab wear a mask don't ask for a conscientious objection close the church doors ..... pray for Pope Francis and his appalling advisors.....

[@marietta1335]

I agree. We must pray for Pope Francis and his curia. Thanks.

[@martaacosta4415]

I’m a female and I’ve no right to make any decisions about the liturgy. I’ve no right to be a priest nor even to imagine what I might do if I were a priest. And I mean all of that quite literally, not sarcastically. I don’t and shouldn’t have the right to do any of the things I’ve just mentioned. However. However, I have every right to decide where and when I’m going to attend the holy sacrifice of the mass. And I have every right to decide what city I’m going to live in. (This last, where I am going to live, with my husband’s agreement, of course.) Currently we live in the state of Utah. I’ve come to have a great deal of respect for Latter Day Saints and their history, but they don’t do much in this state to facilitate the TLM. So my husband and I are moving soon to a city in Idaho that does have a couple of churches with the TLM. I can’t wait to get there! The TLM will continue to be celebrated , I’ve no doubt. Because God wills it and He will not be blocked by popes, presidents, or peons. And if I were a priest, there is no doubt in my mind that I would say, “Bergoglio? Pope Francis? Who dat?” And then I would celebrate the holy and traditional Latin Mass of the Ages in basements, in garages, in Holiday Inns, on rooftops, in tents, in old fallout shelters, in caves, in living rooms, en plein air, and in public bathrooms; I’d celebrate it in Rome and in Possum Trot, Kentucky; in Alaska with ice clinging to my mustache, and in Merida, Yucatán, with sweat dripping from my brow; on top of Everest, and mired in swamps; in the springtime snowmelt of the Rockies, and in the sizzling heat of the driest desert. I cannot tolerate the thought that this one individual in Rome is trying to destroy our holy liturgy. And there is nothing I would not do to show him that he cannot.

[@a.t.c.3862]

Gaaad bless Trump 👍

[@Prairiedog10]

@@martaacosta4415 Drink much?

[@marietta1335]

Then go ahead and be your own pope. You can criticize a pope, but you should not severe your relationship with him and the Church because that will cut you off from the Church's "oneness" (unity). Remember the four marks of the true Church: One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic." If you break away from her one-ness, you will no longer be a part of the Church.

[@nanaprn7809]

Reminds me why I no longer attend mass. I loved the latin mass. I had a missal that my grandmother gave me that explained the latin and I loved it. But I never felt at home with the mass in the vernacular.

[@marietta1335]

And therefore you'd rather disobey the Third Commandment.

[@sunny2shoes]

The Latin Mass will expand..I'm well into my love of learning the Latin language and about the mass.

[@JohnAlbertRigali]

I find it difficult to believe that so many Catholics didn’t understand what happens in the TLM before the Novus Ordo Mass was instituted. Didn’t laypersons have missals to help them understand before the Novus Ordo Mass was instituted? 🤔 I and many of my fellow parishioners have the 1962 Roman Missal.

[@marietta1335]

Some people in third-world countries' hinterlands were so poor, they had to go to work at an early age instead of going to school, so they never learned how to read. Also, hand missals were rare and expensive.

[@avarmadillo]

Determined to be Catholic is not such a clearly and easily discerned standard.

[@fragilechrissy]

Are you still on the way to santiago de compostela?

[@jamestregler1584]

I'm reminded of king Henry of Germany '' come down from the seat of Peter false monk !

[@kyriaeleison9368]

The devil wants only that which he does not already have, we can see how well he is ensconced with the clown, rock guitar et all. Masses. And so he will go after tbe truth, the Traditional Latin Mass with all his minions, and we are getting to know who they are in no uncertain terms, however Jesus promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against His church, His bride. Jesus we trust in Thee. Viva Christo Ray!

[@marietta1335]

I think you misspelled "Cristo Rey" in Spanish.

[@kitstr]

This is where Brickhead Bagolio has arrived. He is a bitter trivial man.

[@liquidGold79]

I think the liturgy is greater than most think. It forms the priests and people. No one is making mass an idol, rather they understand the tlm teaches the faith fully and novus ordo does not. So fighting for traditional mass is fighting for the faith,

[@marietta1335]

The Novus Ordo also teaches the faith. Are you wiser and more powerful than Canon Law? Don't be a Pharisee. Have a little humility. You don't know everything that's going on in the NO Mass. You're bearing false witness to something you don't fully understand. If you must accuse, make sure to back your accusations with evidence - based on Canon Law, Church documents, and the written rubrics of that particular form of the Mass. And not how you think some groups incorrectly practice it.

[@liquidGold79]

@@marietta1335 well you can start by comparing the offertory of both masses.

[@marietta1335]

@@liquidGold79 The point is -- the VO and the NO are two forms of the Latin rite and both are valid and legal in the Church. True, the Offertory prayers are differently worded, but that does not make the NO invalid or illegal. According to Pope Benedict's book, "Feast of Faith," Pope Paul VI himself composed the NO Offertory prayer, patterned after the Jewish table prayer. Pope Paul VI was the pope and he had the authority to do so.

[@liquidGold79]

@@marietta1335 I never said NO wasn’t valid. The issue is with it being watered down and obfuscating deep theological truths. Why was the offertory prayer patterned after Jewish table prayer? Is that to convey to the faithful the propitiatory sacrifice of Calvary? The church can express the truths more fully and como freely. Question is, is that offertory prayer going deeper to convey that sacrifice at Calvary? I think the answer is no. The liturgical wars are not over validity. The liturgical wars are over the very essence of the faith. These debates are very good for church. They need to happen.

[@marietta1335]

@@liquidGold79 I don't know why the Offertory prayer was patterned after the Jewish table prayer. All I read from Pope Benedict's book, "Feast of the Faith" was that the Offertory prayer of the NO was personally composed by Pope Paul VI and he patterned it after the Jewish table prayer. No other explanation except that Pope Paul VI was the pope and he had every right to do that.

[@ffemto4]

There’s no TLM near me. All i have is Novus Ordo. I can’t not go to mass, regardless of what language it’s in. I converted from protestant (presbyterian) about 7-8 years ago and have never had any opportunity or exposure to TLM. Id love to go and learn, but 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@josephodoherty7864]

Oh that story, about that leak,😅 all over again 😅. That's been told so often for so long now. I know others must remember hearing this stuff before. Good to see so many comments giving a balanced and more reasonable understanding of two different sides to the whole description, perception and understanding of TLM, &, N.O. mass the devotion, good & bad at both, and the memories which I share in but that often seem to be blanked out of the nostalgia which tends to dominate in almost mythic discussion of what the TLM mass was & sometimes still is like. I'm speaking of the large numbers, often majority, of congregations who really didn't/couldn't follow the Latin masses they attended. Some seemed devout, some not ; some very conscious from their talk outside of mass of everyone else's behaviour & their assessment of the state of their souls & how good or bad a Catholic each was in their eyes. Of course I'm only clarifying how the N.O. mass tends to be demonised and denigrated & the Latin mass which, BTW, I DO LOVE & it's inevitable effect of it's liturgy distinct from any other is described as somewhat euphoric & transcendant. This sort of polarisation is a bad indicator of the value or truth of divisions over liturgy. Remember how we would shake our heads in disbelief at Protestant churches splitting & multiplying in disagreements over liturgy, choice of music,etc..,🤔.

[@knightoftheimmaculata8876]

They are crucifying our Lord's mystical body but he will rise again!

[@TraditionalCatholic2633]

This is all just so stupid! These people need to wake up. This is NOT pleasing to our Lord

[@ClaymanS]

I go to SSPX and if this happens people will come to our churches...the only thing is that the Society doesn't have enough priests...unless other priests join the Society of St. PiusX like they do in Poland, diocesan priests want to join the Society but they don't have enough chapels..but this is the future of the Church!

[@marietta1335]

SSPX has no canonical stature and it's not in full communion with the Church. I have a compilation of papal quotes from official documents from Paul VI to Francis that says SSPX is in schism.

[@ClaymanS]

​@@marietta1335You don’t get it, do you?

[@tompalm64]

I hope and pray 💕🙏 this doesn’t happen. Pray for a change of heart from Pope Francis and the hierarchy. 💕🙏✝️. I go to a diocesan TLM and it’s twice a month and everyone here loves it.

[@marietta1335]

So do I, and it's valid and legit. God bless you!

[@marietta1335]

Good for you. God bless you, tompalm.

[@daliborbagaric-uv7jv]

To have faith is what we need. Not understanding. Christ word is simple enough.

[@marietta1335]

You are correct, of course. But some people want to understand. Faith seeking understanding is not such a bad idea, but it can cause heated debates. Such is human nature.

[@marymcclavey8395]

It has occurred to me though that the Church might divide itself into two parts like the Anglican Church did. However, I have noticed that there seems to be a negative attitude toward High Anglicans from the low (if I can call it that) Anglican Church. I also think the High Anglicans could care less about that. But it means that the Catholic Church would have to maintain these new churches. Of course, I suppose that they could become mission churches for FSSP for example. They could use old small churches which have gone bankrupt and up for sale. Still, it means that adherents to the TLM will have to be prepared to support it, and of course to be sneered at by devout NO attendees. Still it would be a good thing to stop trying to fit TLM masses into the NO calendar.

[@marymcclavey8395]

I know of a couple of small churches which are practically abandoned in my area which would be perfect.

[@gailmiller5226]

I like everything you say Robert…makes a lot of sense🙏🏻

[@brotherbruno1783]

I just wish they spent their time going after liturgical abused in the Novus Ordo instead of going after the Tridentine Mass. So many problems would go away if they actually made a point to ensure you can’t have child Christmas pageants in place of the homily, or celebrants deliberately altering and even omitting entire sections of the Mass they don’t like without facing severe repercussions. Make the Novus Ordo reverent and go after those who abuse it, and you’ll actually be working to solve the problem. I don’t know how this is intended to do anything other than galvanize the scene

[@marietta1335]

I totally agree with you as regards the Novus Ordo. But the Vatican is not exactly going after the Tridentine Mass per se. It's just that they want to put it under the authority of diocesan bishops, where it belongs. The former Ecclesia Dei communities have their own bishops, so they're not affected by TC. The problem is the schismatic, sedevacantist and "independent" groups whose Masses are valid but illicit and have no canonical standing within the Church.. They cause confusion with the faithful. Not sure, but I think that's what Vatican II wants to do - to differentiate the approved TLMs from the unapproved ones.

[@MarjorieBurns-gu9tf]

I do not attend the Traditional Latin Mass. There are a lot of problems in the Church and in our world, but the Traditional Latin Mass is not one of them. And full participation …. attendance has dropped dramatically …. Which means NO PARTICIPATION AT ALL!!!

[@vitolipari3406]

Why are TLM masses being terminated? Any restriction of people attending mass is an affront to God, especially since people need to receive Communion.

[@marietta1335]

TLMs are not being terminated. Read Traditionis Custodes again. Also, the former Ecclesia Dei communities are encouraged to continue celebrating TLM. Search the web for FSSP's and ICKSP's report on their visit with the Pope, who commended them for celebrating the TLM, since it's their charism.

[@marymcclavey8395]

I agree that many churchgoers prior to VII did not really live their faith. I have also heard the criticism that people did not follow the mass and said the rosary instead. I agree that most Catholics in those days did not understand the faith and attended out of social habit. But I believe this was the same for Protestants as well. I was extremely fortunate to go to a convent school where I came into actual contact with the faith .

[@Divinemercytx]

Not for long!!! Jesus will bring it back

[@bornbranded29]

What pains me is the holy diocesan priests who I hate to walk away from when they can no longer offer the Tridentine Mass. There's an SSPX mission in my city. I'll go there. Plain and simple.

[@marietta1335]

SSPX is not in full communion with the Church.

[@bornbranded29]

@@marietta1335 I'm a simple man. I need a real mass, a place where there are no charismatics, no eucharistic ministers, no weird social justice sermons, no communion in the hand and no altar girls. So I'll need to go to a traditional mass. I hope catholics will come back to the faith.

[@marietta1335]

@@bornbranded29 The Novus Ordo is a real Mass.

[@johnnymism]

Let's wait and see.

[@marymcclavey8395]

Do they think that getting to TLMs will get even more difficult and the result will be that the people who attend it will be content to go to NO just out of ennui? People have to go long distances already to attend TLM. The closest TLM to me is in Ottawa where the FSSP have St. Anne's Church and that is quite a stretch.

[@bucksfan77]

Cant wait to see Michael Lofton write this off

[@thecatholicman]

He can’t

[@bucksfan77]

​@thecatholicman he'll try!

[@spykezspykez7001]

I personally think I have far better things to do that do be looking at things from him. I will grant that even sometimes the most peculiar person can impart some wisdom or lesson, but economics; I feel my time is better spent elsewhere.

[@laddamclaren3917]

Hold up. Our parish just got permission for the Latin Mass for the next two years, to be reviewed again at that time. Everybody should calm down.

[@spykezspykez7001]

Two years. One would question why there is an expiry date.

[@marietta1335]

Congratulations!

[@marietta1335]

@@spykezspykez7001 Not expiry date. Perhaps just a review.

[@MrV395]

No issues with the VII Council? You are a lucky man, I have plenty.

[@soldierofmary984]

I dont care which Mass I attend as long as its Jesus in the Eucharist. All this gossip over a language. English or Latin or any other language God does not look at that as long as the consecration is correct and Jesus is present in the Eucharist. He looks at our hearts in the Mass not the Language coming out of our mouths.

[@marietta1335]

Very well said. Thank you and God bless you.

[@kzbaby2002]

Maybe the people who think the Novus Ordo is not reverent can contribute to it becoming more reverent in their own parish. The old saying God sends you the priests you deserve. If everyone at Mass has the right inner disposition it will create the right atmosphere and attract reverent priests to it.

[@thecatholicman]

No. That isn’t possible. I’ve tried. If a priest is liberal not amount of lay involvement will change him

[@kzbaby2002]

@@thecatholicmanSorry to hear that. My parish has two very wonderful priests. The pastor however is too political sometimes and brisk. I just try to go deep into meditation at Mass. For the most part I think our congregation is more holy than others I’ve been in. And we are growing. I still fear whether there’ll be any priests I can turn to in future tribulations which I think are upon us.

[@maddyproctor1443]

@@thecatholicman Hold on Robert - just think of the ministry of Jesus - he wasn't conventional and frequently upset the Pharisees and the respected leaders. We have a great challenge put before us - to love as Jesus loves us. Are we even close to doing this? It's distressing to read some of the comments here. I think that we all need to go back to the Gospels and pray and listen to what God is saying. We all need to ask for God to help us in these difficult times. The Eucharist should never be something causing division - all talk of the TLM versus the NO seem for the most part to be very divisive. This cannot be pleasing to God. A house divided against itself will fall - we must seek and strive for unity - this is what God wants us to do. Anything less is unthinkable.

[@marietta1335]

@@maddyproctor1443 Thank you, maddyproctor, for bringing Jesus into this thread. Sometimes, in our zeal to fight for what we believe, we forget that the Mass is Jesus and He owns it. God bless you.

[@1romancatholic]

I just think God deserves a Church and Rite of a decorum befitting the All Holy God.

[@roxannearmstrong1219]

The Ordinariate, FSSP, carry on as usual. Nothing new. This will cause the traditional Mass to grow...💯🙏

[@TheKevin9000]

They didn't pray the rosary because they didn't know what was going on at Mass. It was a pay of participating just like reading a missal.

[@carolfoxe1971]

Yes, it's praying the Mass as the passion of Christ.

[@chrism7847]

So much for “Collegiality” 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@NA-ls7hi]

Amen Amen and yes in the end people who love TLM will find it and maybe Fraternaty will be flooding with faithful

[@lindamcdermott2205]

Heard the opposite today! That Latin Masses can continue.

[@awateredgarden]

We go to a Latin Mass at a private chapel. Would that be banned too?

[@marietta1335]

If it's valid and legit, it shouldn't be banned. Look up the definitions of "validity" and "liceity" in the Catholic Church. God bless you.

[@awateredgarden]

@@marietta1335 Thank you. Feeling nervous about the rumours. God bless 🙏

[@EvelynRivera-z3k]

You know what??!!! I don't particularly care for how words are being thrown around these days. Now we are being told we are "Idolizing" the Latin Mass. Well if Jesus Christ is my idol than I am idolizing him at the TLM Mass. If it was NO, I went there to let God know that I was idolizing Him. If someone loves the Midnight Mass and I go to the Christmas Day Mass who is right and who is wrong? I want to go to TLM, that is where you will find me.

[@racheljames7]

I'm with you, brother (or sister. Forgive me). The gaslighting is so boring. "You're idolizing the TLM" they say. No, we just think Jesus deserves our best.

[@debrakeogh]

It could be that God is allowing this to happen in order to separate the wheat from the chaff! It is in the TLM communities that are having lots of children, there will be the growth because of that if nothing else. The Novus Ordo communities are a sea of grey hair. It will be interesting to see how this plays out! God won't be made a fool! These things have a tendency to backfire if they go against Gods will.

[@marietta1335]

Have you ever been to a Novus Ordo in the Spanish language? Or one in Filipino or any of the other Asian and African languages? There are more families with children there than in the TLMs in the US. I know because I am 81 years old, have lived in several cities, and attend both forms of the Mass. So don't even presume at this time that the NO is the chaff and the TLM is the grain. You don't know that. There are schismatic and sedevacantist TLMs that, although valid, are illicit and have no canonical standing with the Church. Have you ever thought maybe those illegal and disobedient TLMs could be the chaff?

[@NA-ls7hi]

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not rely on your own understanding In all your ways acknowledge Hi. and He will make your paths straight Proverbs 3:5 God sees and knows He will calm this storm we just need to remain faithful to Him 🙏

[@marietta1335]

I love it. I think the Servant-of-God Fr. Dolindo has an essay exactly on what you've just posted. It's beautiful and quite comforting. Thank you and God bless you.

[@macnadoodle]

So I guess Francis wants to, as Taylor Marshall says. "corale" the trads into a separate church, so he can carry on mangling the main Church body. Ok. But as the only growth is in Trad church communities, and Germany in particular is losing followers hand over fist. On the other hand, Francis may well have decided to leave Trads in a lifeboat of the ED communities, which he destroys the modernist church. Unlikely, but that ay also be his plan.

[@marietta1335]

I think you'll make an excellent, flawless Pope. Would you like to replace Francis?

[@doublem1971]

It seems that at the core of being a Catholic is the belief of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I wonder what percentage of TLM attendees vs NO attendees believe in the real presence. I think we all know the answer just don't know the numbers.

[@marietta1335]

Nobody knows the answer. This much I can tell: There are more Eucharistic adorations now than before Vatican II. I should know - I'm 81 years old.

[@misss.o.j.]

Middle of the Roader.

[@thistlewood1]

Mass is mass to me , when I am on holiday we just go to local mass even if it’s in another language, so not sure the purpose of this video , interesting yes , but greater issues , anyway God is in charge he is the boss , hard to trust in him , but when human thinking has its way , things go wrong in a big way , don’t get me wrong I think Latin mass would be beautiful, although I don’t know any where local that does it Anyway keep up the good work , we are all struggling 🙏

[@marietta1335]

Excellent post. Thank you and God bless you.

[@Hope_Boat]

Hi people. Once you're tired with the cognitive dissonance of Roman Catholicism, remember that the orthodox Church is relevant. Kyrie eleison ☦️

[@cominatrix]

It's strange to be part of the Universal Church and want to celebrate the mass the way it was done for at least a millennium and in a way that feels so much more reverent than the N.O. has become in most places and to be told by these people who have the reigns that we basically are not part of them. I try not to be upset about these things, I believe that the long term is that the Holy Spirit is guiding the strong among us to rebuild the faith and the Church, but it really seems that the N.O. directly or indirectly has weakened the mass and these measures only serve to lead away from the things that are attempting to be preserved by the TLM. It's as if they want schism, but isn't that just the way of the world lately?

[@thecatholicman]

While I prefer and love the TLM, remember that in the last 50 years the majority of Catholic martyrs died going to Novus Ordo (in Africa, Asia and Middle East) the new mass has made many many saints. I just think the Vatican has their own ideology now which isn’t helping. But we can’t loose faith

[@katydidd6321]

Well said. We've lost too many of our traditions already, this seems like another nail in the coffin. I don't understand what is so wrong with tradition, religious or otherwise. Its all under attack. Difficult to raise kids to be stable and healthy these days because, well, we can't have just boys and girls anymore, now they can be non-binary giraffes. And tradition is attacked so viciously, too. It might be one thing if the authorities werent called out because you said something to someone that they somehow took offense to... And now the Church is falling in line with this? Papa admonishing his own children for trying to hold onto Church traditions? Why this? What is so wrong with tradition?

[@marietta1335]

There are TLMs and there are TLMs. Remember, they are not all the same. Quite a few of them are schismatic and are not in communion with the Church. That's what's causing the confusion.

[@katydidd6321]

@@marietta1335 Which ones are not in Communion with Rome?

[@marietta1335]

@@katydidd6321 Katy, The ones not in communion with Rome are: 1. The schismatics - those who recognize the pope but do not embrace every dogma that the Church teaches. SSPX belongs to this group because although they mention the pope’s name in the “una cum” part of the Canon of the Mass, they don’t accept Vatican II, which is dogma. SSPX has a validly ordained priesthood and therefore, they have Apostolic Succession, so their Mass is valid but illicit. Pope Benedict XVI says they will have no canonical ministry inside the Church until they don’t recognize Vatican II. (If you need documental proofs of this, let me know.) The so-called “Old Catholics” are also schismatics. They broke away from the Church after Vatican I but I don’t know if they manage to maintain apostolic succession over the years. 2. The sedevacantists, sedeprivationists, etc. are those who believe there is no pope in Rome right now (sede=seat; vacante=vacant) and that the popes from John XXiii to Francis are not true popes but anti-popes. Many call themselves “independents.” Many sedevacantists also have a valid priesthood because their bishops were installed by Archbishop Thuc of Vietnam, who defected from the Church after Vatican II. I don’t know which pope’s name they use in the “una cum” portion of the Mass, or if they mention any pope at all. I don’t know all the names of sedevacantist groups because there are quite a number of them, but I think CMRI and the Palmarians are among them.

[@thomasjorge4734]

I pray the Rosary during the N.O. Mass and still participate actively!

[@a.t.c.3862]

But not the Luminous Mysteries, please! 🙏

[@marietta1335]

@@a.t.c.3862 Why not?

[@ClaymanS]

Praying rosary because they don't understand Latin?? Poor excuse because the Misals have both languages of the whole mass side by side! I have my mom's missal from 1952 (in Slovak language) and I read both languages and anyone going regularly to Latin mass will learn some of the Latin too. I believe that in the western countries they wanted to change the mass so it's more acceptable to protestants. All these evil things have always come from western Europe not from the East. I was 11 when the new mass started in Slovakia and as a child I remember how embarrassing it was for the priest to face the people! Especially when taking holy communion..this private moment was all on display to the whole church...I remember being embarrassed myself, interesting how we remember certain things throughout our life 😢

[@FruitOvTheDoom]

Anglican thinking of swimming the Tiber and I have to say, I didnt realize how divided yall were over there. That is one of things I am trying to get away from..

[@marietta1335]

The Church itself is not divided. Only some members seem to be, and mostly because they are seeking understanding.

[@AK-nw7tr]

Whoa. Fr. Folsom, OSB taught Latin Mass about clergy piety. V2 added more Scripture and laity piety matters now too. Agreed, went too far. Laity arent that pious...and neither are clergy. May Jesus have pity on us.

[@michellestansberry9101]

All I can say is what would Jesus do?

[@76Jeremy]

How does this affect the SSPX?

[@thecatholicman]

It doesn’t , however if the Pope approves a new bishop for them then things could change very fast

[@abuhannah07]

Doesn't effect them what so ever. I'm moving to St. Louis next year and I'm going to start going to mass at the SSPX church no doubt.

[@marietta1335]

@@thecatholicman Unlikely.

[@marietta1335]

@@abuhannah07 I've never been to St. Louis, but I've read that there is a valid and legit TLM in a small old church in Cahokia (sp?) across the river. I think it's under the ministry of ICKSP. If I were you, I'd check it out instead of SSPX,which is non-canonical. Best wishes on your move and God bless you.

[@mauricem6359]

Rumour spreads fast! TLM is not going to be banned. NO Mass is celebrated around the world, both liturgies are good and valid.

[@patrickmelling8404]

TLM is heavily restricted though. There seminaries are full, but few! It's a disaster for mainstream Catholic church. We don't have ecclesia dei in Perth.

[@marietta1335]

@@patrickmelling8404 Perhaps you can organize a few fellow Catholics (not necessarily from the same parish) and petition your bishop for a TLM, as advised in Summorum Pontificum.

[@stuartgibson3006]

Disgrace Disgrace Disgrace🙏🌍🙏🕊️

[@ericfaith2810]

To me the Latin and Conciliar are no more better than the other. Why can't there be both. As for Pope Francis, I believe very little I hear about him from would be rad trad cat media. Learning Latin is essential especially for nurses, doctors, and medical staff as it's used quite often. I was actually saddened when the Conciliar Mass was altered. Through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault??? What happened? Did I die and am now in Purgatory where the Mass's Liturgy has to be re-memorizef? I really liked Pope Benedict XVI, but that really disheartened me when they altered what I was used to praying since I was a kid. Latin does nothing for me. I can hear Ave Maria recited and the 'body' of the words, the spoken words I hear, but the 'spirit' or meaning of the words just aren't there. But that's just me personally. I like being traditional without being traditionalist, but to be honest, I struggle to go to Mass at all anymore. It's hope vs. despair here with more reasons than I can count. Thanks for the video.

[@kzbaby2002]

I still can’t get the prayers at Mass right since they changed under Benedict. I have to read the text every time. I think my brain doesn’t memorize the way it could when I was younger.

[@alexzadrazil7242]

I know it's a contervisal opinion to have but I for one see near perfect historical continuity between the Missal of 1962 and the Missal of 1970. Just as the Pre-Georgian Mass is in total continuity with the new missal of Pope Georgy.

[@marietta1335]

You are so blessed to discern the historical continuity of the 1962 Missal at the Missal of 1970. It shouldn't be controversial because it's the truth, according to Pope Benedict XVI. He called it the "hermeneutics of continuity." Thank you and God bless you.

[@lauravettoretti1323]

Can a Diocesan priest join the SSPX or the FSSP?

[@colmoneill191]

Yes.

[@lauravettoretti1323]

@@colmoneill191 thank you🙏

[@marietta1335]

The FSSP, yes. The SSPX, no. Unless he wants to defect from the Church.

[@katherinehickey6915]

Vedus Ordo suppressed. Me thinks the messages from heaven are a response to these attempts to cancel the holy sacrifice at the altar

[@thecatholicman]

Not totally, the ecclesia Dei communities won’t be impacted.

[@marietta1335]

@@lilyst.pierre6457 I don't know what the issue was, but it was not Traditionis Custodes. That was so heartbreaking, but neither ICKSP nor Cardinal Cupich issued an explanation.

[@LadyGwen4]

Catechesis is the answer!!!!

[@johnf2023]

Whose version?