Ben Shapiro Gets SCHOOLED By Neil deGrasse Tyson on Trans Issues

[@greechen3080]

When you debate someone who’s already finished college.

[@bella-bond]

Exactly. I found myself wondering, why doesn’t Ben debate older people (non-college-age) more often? And then I remembered he’s a bloody coward.

[@deagle7776]

@@bella-bond same with Steven Coward

[@Celestialbliss_]

🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

You don't have to go to college to know what a woman is, just pick up a goddamn dictionary.

[@alanbareiro6806]

@@Dennis-nc3vw Or you know... read a scientific book that talks about biology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc; because human beings are in reality much more complex than a dictionary definition.

[@bipolarbearzzz9986]

I really like Neil's take that the results of social studies shouldn't be used to oppress groups.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

My dad pulled this bullshit under a homophobic mindset, "gay ppl r very promiscous!!!" my brain: "Whats so wrong with that?"

[@Mizar007]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 "Yeah, so are straight people, what's your point?"

[@deathbytheblade6757]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 Just your dad wishing he could have been.

[@d3l3tes00n]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 It's wild how straights will project lol

[@plntycash]

@@d3l3tes00n lol says somebody named “slut puppy”

[@deenil]

"Adopted parents are not biological parents" "....ok?" This whole convo in a nutshell

[@nelsonth]

HOW DARE YOU CALL THESE PEOPLE WHO RAISED YOU AND LOVED YOU, ACTED IN ALL WAYS SOCIALLY AS PARENTS "MOM" AND "DAD"!

[@odst123451]

Nobody is saying that. The relevance of your parents being biological or not is important when it comes to medicine. Don’t be moron.

[@tigerguy529]

@@odst123451 yeah, and whether you are a trans or cis woman can matter medically as well, they are still jist as much women. It's just as wrong to say adoptive parents are not real parents as it is to say trans women aren't "real" women

[@odst123451]

@@tigerguy529 Adoptive parents being compared to trans women, that’s a ridiculous comparison. Adoptive parents can fulfill their role as parents. A trans women can fulfill some roles. A proper comparison would be comparing a trans women to a women who can’t birth children (damaged or defective system reproductive organs). Female/non male women don’t need to resort to surgeries or drugs to gain or maintain their feminine appearance. Trans women do.

[@strongbone9471]

@@odst123451 wait what? It absolutely is. What are you talking about? When the doctors ask about your family history of health issues they're not asking about your adopted parents.

[@twwtjohns]

The worlds population includes 1.7% intersex persons. That's not an insignificant number.

[@MarcyRavenManji]

also there might be a lot of people that don't even know they are intersex

[@shannonbarber6161]

You do not ruin society for 98.3% for the sake of 1.7%. We work to accommodate them the best we can without doing that. The left is crossing lines of madness.

[@aintgotnophd2196]

@@MarcyRavenManjior quite reasonably won’t admit it to either themselves or others in fear of how people around them will react. Sometimes i think we’re still stuck in the middle ages… feels like we should be better towards eachother than this by now

[@jaykewojno2287]

Genetic anomalies shouldn't be celebrated, they're mistakes. Its why most of them come with health concerns.

[@twwtjohns]

@jaykewojno2287 So, what's your solution? Acceptance or what?

[@strongbone9471]

Ben Shapiro doesn't like it when his feelings are countered with facts.

[@TariqNasheed117]

Going from underprepared college kids to NDT, is like jumping from Duck Hunt to Halo 2 LASO difficulty...

[@EduardoSalamanca1960]

@@TurtleChad1 wassup turtle

[@southbayjay2540]

@@TurtleChad1 heyy

[@bwood6337]

@@TurtleChad1 Top teir username.

[@zen_tewmbs]

Benny Shaps doesn’t care about your facts, he’s got too many feelings.

[@carlosdlguerra]

Ben always gets schooled in every interaction that isn't with a high schooler without a mic in their hand

[@zen_tewmbs]

That’s because Ben isn’t actually good at his job. It’s quite unfortunate that there’s so many folks who can’t see through his transparent nonsense.

[@AT-vp8qw]

Yea, that's why Ben always debates highschoolers or young college students

[@someonerandom8552]

*cue flashbacks to when Ben lost an interview, with a conservative interviewer*

[@firdavsyuldashev1993]

Notice how Ben never considers these as “debates” but rather “discussions” so that he can run from being labeled as OWNED. Its only a debate when the opponent is a student

[@paultoc2657]

Ben never gets owned.. He makes the left cry, vaush included. He went to Harvard.

[@Sprite_525]

NDT had the perfect approach to start by saying “if you’re really a libertarian then where are you going with this? why don’t you just leave trans people alone”, cuz Ben’s whole schtick is “where is the left going with their ideas? I’m a religious libertarian now so leave me alone to be religious”

[@SofaKingGasPriceSpike]

"Yeah, I'm somewhat of a Libertarian myself." *proceeds to vote for Trump twice*

[@rickc2102]

Ben "freedom for me, my religion for thee" Shapiro

[@jayhollows5729]

"I'm somewhat of a libertarian" is like when white conservatives pretend to be black online

[@FatJack210]

I'm such a Libertarian, that I want to make burning the flag a jailable offence and legislate what goes on in people's bedroom.

[@samuelbekele3601]

@@FatJack210 Ben "I am such a libertarian that I support legislation that jails women for having miscarriages" Shapiro

[@chandlerspahr4927]

Crazy how conservative men suddenly became super interested in women's sports

[@pocketzed3481]

Very kind of NDT to hold Ben's hand through this. He's very patient.

[@Juniversal]

Lol this discussion feels like an adult talking to a child

[@77mcmarine]

NDT has always said he is an educator first

[@TheFiki14]

This convo has the same energy as when I'm talking to my younger siblings about social issues. They'll come to me with a talking point they heard and I'll unpack it slowly in the same way NDT does for Ben.

[@neil2444]

I really enjoyed NDT's approach to the argument. It's incredible that he addressed Ben Shapiro almost like he were explaining in simple terms why he's wrong, and at no point in time was it condescending. I'm not a fan of NDT, but those questions were brilliant. For instance, asking Ben what his motivations are and not getting a straight answer because Ben knows his motivations are fundamentally rooted in hatred.

[@Juniversal]

@@neil2444 I want someone to enlighten me on what makes NDT so disagreeable or unlikeable because i've seen many comments bracketing their messages with "I don't like NDT...but". Personally I love Neil. To me he's always been an ultra charismatic, likeable and intelligent science man that does an amazing job of making science palatable and understandable to the unlearned masses. He's done nothing to sully that image to me so i'm really curious why so many apparently dislike him.

[@j.c.jeggis1818]

Neil deGrasse Tyson opening by basically saying "it's a free country, why do you give a fuck, are you against freedom?" was such a gigachad moment that I spontaneously grew a moustache. Absolutely delicious content

[@LuckyBastard12345]

So you became a Viltrumate

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

@@LuckyBastard12345 *Viltrumite

[@NAT-turners-Revenge]

😅 using the right's talking point but of course it only applies to them

[@toneriggz]

@@LuckyBastard12345 Freddie Mercury*

[@sambryce321]

@@LuckyBastard12345 I now want to see one of those ‘think!’ Omni-man memes about this debate.

[@breezer6568]

"Why don't you join the libertarian side?" No Ben, why don't YOU join the libertarian side?

[@arshadalam4457]

If only he said that

[@direkte5303]

@John Langley Don't fall to cynicism when the truth turns out to be shitty. Present your arguments better and people will interact with you more Edit: Also your argument is just classism rebranded. The problem isn't x or y or z comrade. The problem is x AND y AND z. You must solve all three to solve the problem

[@gabrielparks9399]

Exactly.

[@dynamicworlds1]

@John Langley Critical race theory (CRT) is a body of legal scholarship and an academic movement of civil-rights scholars and activists in the United States that seeks to critically examine U.S. law as it intersects with issues of race in the U.S. and to challenge mainstream American liberal approaches to racial justice.[1][2][3][4] CRT examines social, cultural, and legal issues primarily as they relate to race and racism in the United States.[5][6] "You start out in 1954 by saying, "N*, n*, n*." By 1968 you can't say "n*"-that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites." -Lee Atwater, advisor of 40th U.S. President Ronald Reagan, the campaign manager for 41st U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and Chairman of the Republican National Committee. “You want to know what this was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying. We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” -John Ehrlichman, President Richard Nixon’s domestic policy chief Looks like CRT isn't BS, but rather an important lense of analysis for those who actually give a fuck about liberty (which, btw, you've convinced no-one that you do) because that goal requires dismantling systemic racism including but not limited to the structures built into our legal codes to this day.

[@dynamicworlds1]

@John Langley everything I quoted is evidence of how CRT is correct that (including the war on drugs) racism is built into our legal code, so it's not BS. Restating the obvious (and unchallenged) fact that taking down the biggest and most harmful example of this (the war on drugs) would do the most immediate good is just a deflection from your claims about CRT being wrong JUST like this entire racial tangent is a deflection from Ben's obvious authoritarianism based on the blatently false assertion that CRT is anti-libertarian (even in the BS right-wing sense of the term). You'd think a libertarian would appriciate looking into how our laws might be setup to come down harder on certain minorities, but you get so angry about it like you don't want to examine ways the government has put their "boot on the necks" of black people in particular for SOME reason. 😒

[@emilymarek4714]

Isn’t it funny? I’m female, born female, but have ALWAYS been stronger than my husband. And that’s because I lived on a ranch throughout my teens, and had to lift bales of hay, 100 pound bags of feed, calves, you name it. Plus, I worked out, and taught martial arts. I’m 59 now, not as strong… but he’s never even tried to gain strength. It was never his ‘thing’. Men aren’t ALL stronger than women, and some can even surpass, just by working on it. I never looked like I was all muscle… I was just very strong. It happens.

[@strumblers3701]

Just because the average male is stronger than the average male does not make any man stronger than any woman, and YOU are proof of that.

[@randallbesch2424]

Strength is on a continuum with both sexes. Imagine if everyone worked out? Women don't build muscle mass the way men can and yet can be very strong due to the kind of muscle fibers they have. Well done!

[@mef12727]

You just stated a non sequitur. No one ever stated all men are stronger than all women.

[@chickencikchicklet599]

a non sequitur means a conclusion does not follow from the given premises, hers does, but it is a straw-man to assume people believe all men are stronger than all woman.

[@strumblers3701]

@@mef12727 people say that men are biological stronger than women, which infers said statement

[@alvinanis3006]

Mind the fact that NDT is an astrophysicist, he isn't exactly the expert to call on for gender discussions yet he streamrolled little Ben.

[@foreverdm7000]

Because he's still a man of science. Doesn't matter the field, he actually cares about being informed on topics he talks about.

[@abdurrahmanqureshi3030]

Talking in circles and saying vague points with no direction is a steam rolling now ?

[@Cobalt985]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 No they’re talking about Neil deGrasse Tyson, not Ben Shapiro

[@HillsAliveYT]

It's almost like all science universally looks at observable phenomena and says "hmmm how do we explain that" instead of Ben's POV which is "I can't explain that therefore it does not exist".

[@foreverdm7000]

@@HillsAliveYT "I can't explain it therefore it's bad"

[@spencergiddings8228]

Bro, that first response from Tyson had me dead "who gives a shit"

[@Unquestionable]

I think that Tyson was giving Benny the benefit of the doubt when he claims to be a libertarian and "all about freedom" so he brought up the most common sense approach. Of course Ben knows he needs to keep the grift going and can't back down so he goes with whatever bullshit he knows his audience wants to hear.

[@Laker24772]

@@Unquestionable Ding ding ding, we have a winner. You have hit thr nail on the head, lol. Ben can't ever have an honest conversation with a guest even if he wanted to bc he is unwaveringly just talking to his audience. His job/grift is literally just to cultivate anger and fear in his audience while validating their beliefs in a way in which they feel is an intellectual exercise.

[@darrenfleming7901]

@@Laker24772 Also if he stops talking to them and feeding them a narrative for two seconds they start to see through him, so he has to isolate himself more and more, much like Crowder, they barely interact with anyone except each other these days.

[@mameitor5965]

“Science is not a liberal conspiracy” -Neil deGrasse Tyson

[@JP-sm4cs]

Really wish he wasnt so cringe on the scientifically proven transition to plant based diets in order to help save the planet.

[@greanbeen2816]

@@JP-sm4cs tbf meat is yummy🙄

[@Soleilune1995]

@@JP-sm4cs Yeah, but humans are omnivores by nature. Personally, I'm a vegetarian who sometimes also eats seafood (I guess, pescatarian), because of ethical reasons moreso than environmental ones. But the real issue is factory farming driven by profit. Not only are they cruel, but they pollute the environment and then utterly waste tons of perfectly good food on top of it, all so they can make the most money possible. It's capitalism that needs to go, not necessarily meat eating.

[@JP-sm4cs]

@@Soleilune1995 Omniovore is a VERY wide ranging term and can mean anything from 50% meat and plants respectively or a 20% split across all food groups. Humans have been shown to get the vast majority of their nutrients and energy from plants nuts and fruits. You have no need for animal products unless you need something high energy, and even then our ancient ancestors got that from scavenging bone marrow or fishing. They weren't apex predators getting of their nutrients from large game. Plus the older you get the worse animals products, particularly meat, become for you as Heme iron can inflame your veins and animal fat causes high cholesterol. Many socialist nations still had industrial farming, unsustainable land use predates capitalism I'm afraid. It's all about the unjust hierarchy set up between man and nature, we are a part of nature and need to live naturally if we want our planet to be sustained.

[@briish7082]

@@Soleilune1995 Reducing your demand for animal products does decrease the amount of animal cruelty though, even under capitalism. If you think animal cruelty is wrong, you should stop buying animal products.

[@GhostStealth590]

I'm convinced Ben is a robot. He is severely incapable of abstract thinking, so he's made it his whole life's mission to destroy something he doesn't understand.

[@randallbesch2424]

Its his education mainly using predigested regurgitations of misinformation and memes to win arguments against the uneducated. He is an empty husk filled with baseless memes to argue.

[@101stumphead]

Ben isn't even a libertarian He just doesnt like it being pointed out that hes a conservative

[@GrunkPunk]

“Libertarians” and “Independent Thinkers” are just closeted conservatives

[@Yepmyaccount]

@@GrunkPunk I read a good post earlier about someone describing libertarianism, and how it is essentially the proto-fascists shield to hide their nefarious motives behind a relatively benign (mostly because it's stupid) ideology; but the advent of Trump mostly rendered that guise superfluous, and now that's why we see so many 'libertarians' coming out of the woodwork as blatant fascists, white-supremacists, and just generally awful, far-right conservatives.

[@dynamicworlds1]

But he's not a conservative. He's a fascist.

[@wscheets1600]

I hate right wing libertarians. I have a wide variety of leftist views and open to other options and ideas about what type and how we do socialism/communism. However if I get put on spot for a term that describes my ideology the broadest and most accurate while being broad. It would be "Libertarian Marxist" The idea that right wing libertarians get to hold dominance over "libertarian" especially when you can not have liberty, while we have capitalism.

[@drehitemup9904]

Ben is just a racist neocon lol

[@newmanhiding2314]

Lawyer tries to argue science against an astrophysicist.

[@gregq.9792]

Calling Ben Shapiro a lawyer is an insult to (most) practicing attorneys

[@book_roblox]

​@@gregq.9792ace attorney mfs gon cook Ben bro

[@eustaceweener]

​@@book_roblox Ace Attorney mf here

[@SpencerHHO]

Wow, my respect for Neil has gone up a lot watching this. He gently but firmly dismantles Ben Shapiro and because he's being so nice Ben can't escape, it's beautiful.

[@SpencerHHO]

@@_marlene that kind of thinking is why the left is so ineffectual on most meaningful issues in many countries. At no point was he "platforming" or condoning Shapiro and it presents an opportunity to potentially reach some in his viewership who might have their opinions changed.

[@nathanlawrence656]

Have you watched the full video? Do you understand what the video was about? It's not a debate

[@SpencerHHO]

@@nathanlawrence656 exactly, by the framing being a discussion not a debate, Ben's slimy disingenuous tactics are far less effective and just makes him look like the duplicitous weasel he is.

[@nathanlawrence656]

@@SpencerHHO what makes you say that?

[@nathanlawrence656]

@@SpencerHHO you'll notice also, Neil doesn't directly answer the questions/topics. He's giving 'safe' answers

[@InvisibleAxeman]

in school you're told there are boys and girls. you're also told the sky is blue. when you get older you learn the sky isn't always blue. in other words, first you learn generalizations, and later, if you keep learning, you learn specifics.

[@anamelchior7194]

Exactly, and just an addition: I'm a med student and if there's something that we learn quite early here is that human biology is not a strictly A or B thing, more of a spectrum - especially when it comes to chromosomes, which makes the whole "women are XX and men are XY" factually incorrect. And that doesn't even include social and psychological factors. "Biology" defenders often don't know sh1t about biology. (And before someone comes here saying "oh but these are exceptions", being intersex is about as common as having red hair or green eyes, why is it that only one of these is considered invalid?)

[@rattled6732]

No hold on Ben has a point! There are only two sexes, the one I have with his mom and the one I have with his dad!

[@arkhamsoldier9180]

😂

[@Blender.bunker]

Legend

[@hunteruk3967]

Oh for fucks sake this should be this funny 😂😂😂

[@somenerd8401]

Was… Was that a Duke Nukem quote?

[@polarbearsrus6980]

LMAO!!!

[@Ultron01011]

All of this feels like Neil is explaining how planes fly to a confused 4 year old

[@book_roblox]

At least the 4 year old will learn

[@Ultron01011]

@@book_roblox at least the 4 year old won’t insist planes could never fly in the first place

[@book_roblox]

@@Ultron01011 yh true

[@simonpettersson6788]

hahaha underrated comment

[@saranghae1saranghae]

Ben Shapiro's argument: Human rights of LGBTQ people should be challenged based on what science says about the source of gayness & transness. Neil Degrasse Tyson: Bruh! IDGAF about your morals, or political agenda. Human rights should never be challenged, or questioned whatever science says about the source of gayness & transness. Ben's chat: We don't understand words, but we like Ben very much.

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

Wow, way to put words in Ben's mouth. Do you even believe what you just said?

[@feathern6106]

@@Dennis-nc3vw how is that different from what Ben does?

[@Givemepeanutbutter]

​@@feathern6106that reply and this comment is 3 years old

[@monstermaker73]

Wait, BEN had a chat? Interesting.

[@Incompetent_Matt]

And to think I used to think Ben Shapiro was smart back when I was a conservative. I’m glad I’ve come 180 from that life. I never realized how full of hate I was thinking that science was on my side

[@mr.spring-miser3034]

Good on you for being able to recognize the flaws in that line of thinking and change for the better, the world would be a far better place with more people like you in it.

[@colloquialsoliloquy6391]

"Facts don't care about your feelings"....."Ok Benjamin" "My name is Ben"....."Factually,it is Benjamin" ."No.....I like Ben instead"

[@SkinsFirstGeneration]

lmao

[@thatguythere6161]

This

[@decentgrocerybag4003]

Facts don’t care about your feelings, Benjamin.

[@moon_wei]

Benjamin forcing us to call him Ben is obstruction of our Free Speech!!!

[@whyl0ser91]

Omfg that's such an amazing way to put it.

[@justchilling7712]

I’m just really happy Tyson isn’t transphobic. Feels validating in a way

[@goose7378]

Not a huge fan of NGT, but most people of science aren't bigots.

[@jlp6864]

well he is a scientist

[@Smurrei]

Unlike Richard Dawkins which is pretty yikes

[@alexstam2433]

@@Smurrei is he actually a scientist?

[@apophis7712]

@@alexstam2433 He's an evolutionary biologist

[@quellonatolibero]

Best thing are Shapiro simps saying:"Neil says that just to not get cancelled." Pure Copium.

[@jewelsdragonfly]

Such a cop out excuse.

[@zen_tewmbs]

@@jewelsdragonfly is there ever a good excuse they use?

[@jewelsdragonfly]

@@zen_tewmbs there are excuses, but embarrassing ones.

[@prisma6799]

To. The. Vein

[@juniper3955]

"Neil completely destroys every argument Ben Shapiro says just to not get cancelled."

[@alanbates9073]

3 years later, Ben Shapiro is still clueless.

[@ianperry8557]

“Animals are binary” bruh lmfao homie’s never heard of a clownfish

[@derpythean-comdoge8608]

Homie never watched Jurassic park to learn about tree frogs

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

He never heard of snails either; Snails "Sword fight" to decide who carries the kids.

[@diegomo1413]

The thing is literally _nothing_ in nature is binary. Even the position of subatomic particles. You can’t say they’re either there or not there. The truth somewhere in between. But something horribly complex and macroscopic such as gender is binary? Kind of a tough sell…

[@blankspace6367]

who r we kidding Shapiro’s a total ‘clownfish’ himself lol

[@angusmarch1066]

@@blankspace6367 take that back ya little sh*t clownfish are majestic creatures, they dont deserve to be tarnished like that.

[@Odinsday]

NDT calling out Ben’s phony libertarianism in an articulate way is the most chad thing I’ve ever seen him do.

[@sleepyhead8681]

He's like A reverse libertarian on socal issues and very right wing libertarian on economics.

[@johnedwards1968]

@@sleepyhead8681 He isn't even libertarian on economic issues. Open borders is an economic libertarian take.

[@nebufabu]

Long ago, I used to be an American-style libertarian until I realized they would sell all their supposedly inviolable principles for a 5% tax cut and call it a bargain. Now, they simply found the buyer, got the tax cut, and are abiding by the terms of their contract.

[@sleepyhead8681]

@@johnedwards1968 Your right, like A somewhat right wing libertarian economically with reactionary neocon takes. He actally wants war with Iran and thought Trump was A all time great president on policy.

[@iansullivan9738]

@@nebufabu American Libertarian is best compared to Monty Pythons The Spanish Inquisition sketch.

[@StrawberryVein]

NDT: trans people exist and should have freedom Ben: BUT WHY ARE THEY SO MEAN TO ME WHEN I SAY THE OPPOSITE OF THAT

[@ngotemna8875]

So much for the tolerant left smh my head

[@Bizarro69]

Big hug Brian!

[@anonymousguy121277]

Why are they so mean to me? And why do I have to call that transgender "they"? There are 1 million pronouns now... grr

[@natedagreat19]

@@ngotemna8875 tolerant of intolerance?… Square that circle for me.

[@ben5154]

@@ngotemna8875 "smh my head" shake my head my head? Also, look up Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance.

[@adpop750]

"I don't like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I find him really insufferable".........15 mins later: "I didn't expect coming out so hard in NDT's corner.....this effing rocks, this slaps, this is awesome". That's happens when people actually listen to what NDT says and not judge him on the way he says things, the way he comes across.....his personality etc.

[@cripwalker665]

I don't like Tyson's smugness sometimes but I do like him as a person. ESPECIALLY his lectures and Netflix series, he's just as good as vsauce in that field to me

[@intrinsicallylast5246]

I dunno, his smugness is kind of charming in a way, it's just awkward and obvious enough that I feel like it's right in that center of working in his favor.

[@Johnny-wv9cn]

What do you mean by his smugness?

[@veenoir1991]

I think its because hes grown confident over the years as a nerdy guy who was also sort of jockish. Maybe a little cocky but, i wouldn't say smug

[@cripwalker665]

@@Johnny-wv9cn I mean a bit more of his "I'm never wrong" attitude sometimes (you can see it on Twitter sometimes or when he talks about more pop culture) but I like said, he's still a really cool guy lol

[@adxdenerlx6969]

I don't mind if someone is a bit smug sometimes, and if anyone is allowed to be, it's people who are as smart and knowledgable as NDT. Also he does really appreciate art, not a purely science-bro who hates everything that isn't always fully ''correct''

[@classiclife7204]

What Ben will never do is debate an actual biologist. NGT is not an expert in sex or gender studies, but he still destroys Ben. Imagine what a biologist would do.

[@sbushido5547]

I don't know. Some random biologist who isn't as practiced as Neil is at talking to people like this could just as easily fall into Shapiro's rhetorical nonsense. And he demonstrated pretty well that the biology isn't all that important to this debate. Or at least not as important as the message: "I value freedom, so I don't give a shit what someone identifies as."

[@someonerandom8552]

@@sbushido5547 That’s a good point. Sometimes creationists beat actual biologists at debate, simply because the biologist isn’t as adept at speaking to laymen or can’t properly translate scientific data to the masses. Debate is about pageantry, not about who’s right or wrong. Tyson somewhat specialises in disseminating information to the pubic. Which is why he’s adept at countering Ben’s rhetoric. I think this is being addressed because I see more and more scientists willing to learn how to engage with the public, rather than simply teaching a class. Which does require two different skill sets, unfortunately. Because (and I say this as an idiot layman myself) the public at large isn’t as adept at understanding scientific data as the college students with a base understanding and willingness to learn are.

[@classiclife7204]

@@sbushido5547 Good points. It's the larger point that really matters, as both you and Vaush suggest. The temptation is to bury Shapiro with facts, when at least some of that is missing the point.

[@Juniversal]

@@sbushido5547 100% agree. NDT is a fantastic orator and despite not being a biologist his skills of oration combined with his scientific knowledge and principles in and of itself places him beyond many biologist when it comes to the actual impact he makes in a convo like this.

[@Beto_Serrano]

@Yeetus debeetus Not necesarily. But I'd believe they are more prone to disagree than they are to agree.

[@John-bj1zx]

Why did Ben upload him being destroyed? Because that's literally his kink at this point. Big man dominates little twink. Ben is the twink.

[@lucasvdb981]

This is poetry

[@waltuh2.3bviews3secondsago3]

@@lucasvdb981Shakespeare wish he thought of this

[@bruna7534]

That's literally degradation kink

[@chu2478]

This sounds like the start of a really bad porno

[@Terence_Da_Biggest_Bird]

This is Poetry

[@muskiet8687]

The overwhelming majority of trans people aren't interested in becoming a Olympic gold medalist. I really dislike conversations about how some people don't identify one way or the other centering on the unfairness in competitive sports as if that should disqualify every other person from becoming the person they feel they should be. People being treated well should be more important than how it may change a form of entertainment.

[@miss.brun0]

Whoever in the chat said “gender is not scientifically based, it’s just based” thank you. absolutely goated.

[@Fatemaforlife]

What does based mean?

[@xRaZo4LyF33]

@@Fatemaforlife Based, when used as an adjective, means "based on itself". This term was coined by the Based God™. Here, Joe Rogan does a great job of explaining what based means, in a contemporary context: "Like based, like, there's, what's that dude, Lil B the Based God™, is that his name? umm, and, but I didn't know what based means, but i've heard it used a bunch of times and it's always a positive descriptive and.. there's an Urban Dictionary definition, it's "Based is all about being yourself and not caring about what anybody else thinks. "That bag looks gay on you." "I don't care, i'm based."."

[@jdprettynails]

@@xRaZo4LyF33 thanks for the explanation. I've heard it in a positive context, but also used in a mocking way against right wingers. Now it's just used unironically as in "based thing equals good".

[@JP-br4mx]

Hi zaddy

[@phantomrhythms]

@@JP-br4mx wut?

[@LaurenElizabethYT]

“Sex is a binary, except for intersex people” ….. ???? Does Ben not realize that contradiction?? Does he know what “binary” means? Homeboy literally just said “there are only two categories, except for people who are aren’t in those two categories” 🤯

[@freshrockpapa-e7799]

A rule is only a rule if there's exceptions to the rule lol Some people watch reality to form their opinions, others let their opinions form their reality, that's why they can say there's a sex and gender binary despite millions of people falling outside of it.

[@Hiljaa_]

​@@freshrockpapa-e7799then it's not a binary since there's millions of people not in the binary

[@thedudeamongmengs2051]

​@@freshrockpapa-e7799 that's literally the opposite of true. A rule is only really a rule if there are no exceptions. The existence of exceptions means the rule is not true all the time. If observing reality shows that not everyone falls into the categories that we determined ahead of time are the "rule" then the rule must be wrong and a more specific or more clear definition of these categories would be necessary to most accurately describe reality. If you make up a rule and then find thousands of exceptions to that rule, insisting that it's still the rule or a fact of reality and not something you made up is just denying reality. They get away with calling sex and gender a binary by denying reality and insisting that their oversimplified version of reality is actually reality. The reason we use general rules for determining things is because in everyday conversation, it's easiest to refer to a large group in a mostly accurate way with the knowledge that not everyone fits into that category. But if you influence politics and law with colloquial definitions and vague rules with thousands of exceptions, then you will inevitably end up hurting people

[@freshrockpapa-e7799]

@@thedudeamongmengs2051 of course rules can't have exceptions, that's literally the point I was making, you agree with me

[@cgallegos2106]

“Everyone is either black or white, except all those non black or white people.”

[@katymcdonald5481]

This is what happens when an actual intelligent person talks to a self professed “intelligent person”.

[@macias7125]

and that's why Neil got schooled

[@collynha6952]

@@macias7125 Pure Copium.

[@macias7125]

@@collynha6952 nope just facts

[@collynha6952]

@@macias7125 Your gonna overdose dude

[@owentill]

@@macias7125nah it is just copium

[@jacobwaldrop8604]

Sorry, you are completely misscharacterizing NDT. His point was that this issue only matters in sports, and sports are a tiny fraction of our society. Then, even in sports it doesn't have to be set in stone

[@fangsabre]

It's so hilarious because Ben's whole position is that "well this doesnt match up with what my 8th grade biology class told me" And Tyson is just like "I know! Isnt it fascinating? We should learn more about it!" Willful ignorance exposed by scientific curiosity

[@jeffmyname1637]

I feel like conservative's root feeling towards gender issues is reflective disgust towards what they perceive as intuitive ideas Same argument could be made for Pluto "It's basic astronomy that Pluto is a planet(back in the 80's)" "The left want you to believe that Pluto isn't a planet and doesn't orbit the sun" "Pluto is bigger than some of our solar system's moons it's clearly a planet"

[@khill8645]

@@jeffmyname1637 I think it's deeper than that, I think it's just rooted in dogmatic thinking. They were taught Pluto was a planet in 6th grade, and acknowledging that it is no longer considered a planet means that they have to change their mental models (and disrupt the dogma). Move the arena into their 9th grade bio class, and you have exactly the same problem with gender. The idea that what they currently believe is either wrong or an oversimplification makes them defensive, and we see ridiculous displays like this to prevent assimilating new facts. It's why we teach children that current understandings are our best guess based on current info, and that those may change with scientific advancement -- and most kids get it, to a point, but it apparently didn't take for Ben.

[@NateROCKS112]

@@khill8645 Pluto not being a planet is a bad example. The IAU saw that there were a ton of planets in the Quiper Belt, and they wanted to keep their little mental model of just a few planets, so they kicked out the odd one out. Not even Earth has cleared out all the debris in its orbit. That definition just doesn't work as well.

[@khill8645]

@@NateROCKS112 You just proved my point wonderfully - we teach children black and white facts (that there are 8 planets, that sex is a binary, that one should drink 8 glasses of water a day), when reality is much less well-defined and even basic definitions get squishy. Even in your own post, you make it sound like Pluto isn't a planet, when the nuance there is that Pluto and Eris and Makemake are just dwarf planets, and we didn't want to keep changing the answer to 'how many planets are in the solar system' every time we found a new trans-Neptunian object. 8 is an easier answer to teach kids than "2,776...we think"

[@lilyjackson6460]

@@khill8645 a bit like atomic structure. was taught entering secondary school that atoms had a proton+neutron nucleus and a bunch of electrons orbiting. a couple years later we learn about electron rings (energy levels) then a few years later we learn about them not being in rings but in these complex "orbitals" depending on energy level, then we learn finally that the electron is both nowhere and everywhere within its orbital at all times because wave/particle duality. we simplify shit so people can have the basic understanding required, then add in the complexity when they need it - a bit like Newtonian physics vs Einstein's theories. We got to the moon on Newtonian Physics, even if it isn't exactly correct its accurate enough for most purposes that it doesn't merit adding in the extra complexity of relativity theory until it actually matters

[@devforfun5618]

ben fails at a fundemental level because he thinks only natural science is science, and ignores behavioral science, they like to talk about economics, but economics is in the same class as social sciences, it is not a hard science like they try to pretend it is

[@ThePainkiller9995]

thats a very good point actually

[@noble7461]

Science is also not the static, solid object that the likes of shapino want to beat others into submission with. The same way they do with religion.

[@MattZaharias]

And none of them moved past econ 101, else they'd understand that a "free market" is impossible and actually would be insane to try to create in the real world (libertarian economic silliness). Source: I have a university degree in economics.

[@flrnGM]

No he doesn't ... he thinks natural science is the the most convenient avenue to justify his worldview. And when natural science fails at that, he swaps it out for religion (which to him probably is a means to an end too) in a second.

[@aethionr4478]

@@MattZaharias That's nice but do you have a friend in jeezus?

[@hasan7275]

bro ben can’t use “facts and logic” after getting owned by astrophysics man

[@jlp6864]

did you see the comments on his video? these people think they have the monopoly on logic because they dont understand something

[@krosses7156]

@@TurtleChad1 Omg its A Soshellist Turtle! *Blushes*

[@saranghae1saranghae]

It doesn't really take an astrophysicist to own Ben. The slogan of "facts and logic" aren't exclusive to the likes of Ben Shapiro. Facts, and logic evade Ben on quite the regular occasion. He's a political propagandist before all else.

[@jeffarnold3800]

Though I would like to see Ben Shapiro compete with any biological female at any sport because I bet he would get utterly destroyed. He is 5’4 with zero muscle and what I assume is zero coordination. It’s basically like when Cartman tried to be in the special Olympics and got destroyed

[@someonerandom8552]

@@jeffarnold3800 Okay this needs to happen. That would make my year lmao 🤣🤣

[@ketorising81]

You touched on the key. The trans persons in sports issue is going to require compromise. Conservative people are going to have to concede that puberty blockers under the care of a physician are not harmful, and allies will have to concede that only individuals who took blockers as youths can and should compete with cis athletes. That would at least be a starting point

[@doogandoggin2571]

Notice he's only hung up on transwomen. It's like he's afraid he'll be humiliated by a girl being better than him. Best of both worlds right?

[@alexandrosgoulas]

Yeah these people are always so obsessed with trans women, like what they afraid of

[@chuuislovechuuislife]

They never talk about trans men istg. Probably for the best

[@MGTOWforthewin]

​@@chuuislovechuuislife Chaaaz Bono....EWWWWW!! 🤢

[@MGTOWforthewin]

benjy, if in private, would probably love ❤️ to get hung up on a Transwoman...she might even be able to help her give him throat lessons to finally get his voice to crack and sound normal....😂

[@docrob5320]

Because they are sexist beyond sexist. Not so much transphobic but so sexist that they can not comprehend a man wanting to be a woman because they do not understand trans at all.

[@jaggedlittleprayer]

Ben saying “let’s look at the science” while he’s hoping a scientist will validate his transphobia. Give it a rest Ben

[@abdurrahmanqureshi3030]

A 'scientist' huh?

[@RanEncounter]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 NTD is not a scientiest to you? Sure he is not conducting experiments any more and is more devotes to science communication but yes he is a scientist.

[@abdurrahmanqureshi3030]

@@RanEncounter yeah you got a point

[@wscheets1600]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 I believe in the notion that anyone can be a scientist. It's a method of thinking. You don't need a phd to be a scientist. You just need to understand scientific procress. And you to can be a scientist. Just like you don't need to be a professional golfer to be considered a golfer. You just have to do it sometimes.

[@mariomurcia7509]

@@wscheets1600 the problem there is that then anyone can say "I'm a scientist, so this is why trans people arent valid". being a scientist implies you also have a wealth of knowledge on the basics of biology and physics, or whatever the field is, on top of the scientific process of figuring things out

[@arachnofiend2859]

I wonder why a pro-science black guy would be concerned about people using scientific inquiry to restrict people's freedom. I wonder if he might have some sort of generational history with that worry

[@abdurrahmanqureshi3030]

You could say the same about Ben who is Jewish.

[@sergueileonardoafonin7950]

You see a black guy and a Jewish guy discussing. I see 2 people arguing. God I love not being biased by group thinking.

[@astrwolf5507]

@@sergueileonardoafonin7950 it’s actually relevant though

[@flightrisk7566]

LMFAO

[@msgirly6827]

@@sergueileonardoafonin7950 ooohhhh you are soooo specialllll, clap for yourself😑😒

[@darthcenzo8094]

I used to be a ben shapiro fan bc I liked the “le epic owned 📯📯📯 420 RKO compilations” bc i was a dumb child but now as a silly adult I like seeing the compilations of ben getting himself rolled with facts and logic😂❤

[@aaroncarell2019]

The comments are so fcking funny. A whole lot of "now even the scientists are too afraid of cancel culture to speak the truth!!!". Pure copium

[@DeathProductions200]

Do yall have any idea of what a copium high is like. I am genuinely curious. It seems like it wouldn't be pleasant

[@justalostlocal]

I mean just look at Bens comment section. Being conservative is to be on Copium 24/7. Those folks doesn't sound happy at all lol

[@Romanticoutlaw]

they must not know much about tyson if they genuinely think he's motivated by a fear of getting cancelled lol

[@chondrya942]

I wish I could find it funny, but it's just scary and sad to me

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@DeathProductions200 yeah it’s absolute insecurity. They’re terrified of being wrong because they’re scared or the truth and they post comments to deluded themselves into thinking it’s true. No one on copium is positing a comment to convince someone else lol

[@fredericocalistosoares1694]

Ben should invite actual science people to his show more often

[@catofthecastle1681]

That will not happen twice if they’re real scientists!

[@newbie1958]

@@catofthecastle1681 True they will get hacks or pseudo-scientist that believe in Race and IQ.

[@demcurvs]

If you look at the comments of that video, everyone is just saying he isn't a real scientist, or trying to not get canceled. Lol

[@kaybaumann4989]

And publicly get his shit pushed in more… no way. He’s gonna get some regressive idiot that got pushed out of academia for his shit takes so has someone he can agree with.

[@metallbroetchen]

@@kaybaumann4989 it's just a question of time, we will see Jordan Peterson there

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

"sex is binary, except inter-sex" So, not binary?

[@sandshark2]

Not just with intersex, but with every kind of outlier in a set of data usually involving human lives - I HATE it when people will just write off outliers as some fluke or fake no matter the size of said outlier or importance of that outlier.

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

@@sandshark2 How else are they supposed to maintain a position that's unsupported by the evidence? Feelings don't care about facts.

[@Rallylabs]

It is essentially binary. The outliers are insanely rare.

[@SidheKnight]

_Gender_ is not binary.

[@bustamoveorelse]

@Daftrax 98 Chromosones don't define sex, common misconceptions

[@bbgal688]

My best friend is a transgender male, ive never once thought of him any other way.

[@BisexualPlagueDoctor]

I have a non-binary friend who I keep accidentally calling a girl and I feel bad for that, and I don't interact with them very often so I don't really get any practice with that.

[@mikescorpio13]

@@BisexualPlagueDoctor dont feel bad for her demand for attention.... she is not special,no one is

[@1SantinO2]

People in Ben's comments : "Tyson tried so hard not to offend anyone"... And I'm thinking: yes, he didnt want to offend Ben and his non-arguments on his own show..

[@Zretgul_timerunner]

Idk whats the conservative obsession with offending people its like as much a must as breathing for the most of them.

[@roberthuman8091]

@not me It’s weird how the deep state isn’t forcing conservatives to say the correct things though.

[@noonward]

They make their projection of solidity in their arguments a part of their arguments, they're puffing themselves up because being as self nurturing as they need to be, they need and know that people are going to be watching how they react.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@Zretgul_timerunner insecurity tbh. It’s literally just bullying

[@randallbesch2424]

@@Zretgul_timerunner otherwise they would be called "woke" and hated. To them the bully is the hero the strong person not deference and cordiality they see as feminine.

[@elton1211]

It's quite laughable how on one hand Ben criticizes religion being removed from schools and then go on a spill about how Gender studies is only ' theory based ' and not backed by science. Uh, HELLO?

[@Cbd_7ohm]

Lol

[@Michael-st9ky]

Everything should be studied! We need a well informed population

[@thepopeshat8029]

@@Michael-st9ky Ideally, yes, but not everyone will care about religion or gender studies the same way some don't care about maths or English still a good idea though to introduce more broad topics in school

[@harkharajbharali808]

@Idiosarchy exactly. Remove religion and gender studies and teach science and maths more. Maybe history too

[@harkharajbharali808]

@@silvercloud1641 what's your views on teaching gender studies?

[@emic621]

Ben’s still out here squawking that he’s libertarian eh?? The grift is real lmao

[@__-on8rk]

Ben Shapiro is an actual libertarian, vaush is a liar authoritarian

[@dallasmoorenumberone]

@@__-on8rk no.

[@sebastiangeorger5791]

@@__-on8rk lmao wut?

[@barco111]

@@__-on8rk more lies

[@barco111]

@@__-on8rk how can a Zionist be a libertarian? What's next a capitalist communist?

[@nalisaed8725]

Ben Shapiro doesn't like it when his feeling are countered with facts.

[@fcrw2120]

Neil really popped off here, its awesome to know that one of the most famous scientists is accurately arguing in favor of all trans people. Just pure "yeah, gender is social, why should you care so much about how people identify, they are happy and you arent getting hurt, so stop using it as a way to distract from other political issues."

[@Juniversal]

It's very telling how the video ends so abruptly with Ben's "you should be a libertarian har har har" line. He knew there was absolutely no other reasonable counter to Neil's (actual) logic at that point without completely risking his reputation and appearing incompetent. This is nearly on the same level as the Andrew Neil BBC interview when it comes to exposing Ben but without the rage quit.

[@ligmanewtons2523]

I love how Neil Tyson kind of dampened Shapiro's fast talking style with a slow, direct talking style. It's like he was holding Ben's hand while challenging him from a libertarian perspective. Talking at a normal speed is trickier against people with prepared talking points. Slowing it down lets the audience realize the silliness of Shapiro's position and kind of ask themselves what he really just implied before Neil finishes.

[@methos000]

Shapiro loves to use a debate technique known as 'Gish Gallop', which is where a debater throws out a large number of arguments in rapid fire, so that the opponent doesn't have time to refute them all (they might mostly be weak arguments), and may lose track of them. That's why Neil's 'slow it down' style works wonderfully against Ben Shapiro.

[@Truekidorange]

I think it’s interesting that Tyson talks slowly to think carefully about what he’s saying and Ben just vomits his endless NPC conversation trees

[@ejrobinson]

"NPC conversation trees" 😂 this is such a great way of putting it

[@ganasde65]

Ben short-circuits when someone doesn’t follow his script and he can’t blurt out his talking point he had rehearsed

[@robertzeurunkl8401]

Simply trying to work "NPC" into a sentence doesn't help you in any way. You have to use the term in a way that has actual *meaning.* In this case, it doesn't work because an NPC is, by definition, an entity that you cannot communicate with, or which has no active role in the scene, and is just there for "filler". So, someone actively engaged in the conversation is the very opposite of an NPC. But, I get it. You really want to use the term, torturing it into existence if you have to. But, you just end up looking dumb.

[@garyg2318]

I think it's more like Tyson is talking slowly so little Benny can understand, LOL!

[@Truekidorange]

@@robertzeurunkl8401 cool

[@37llawffej]

Ben Shapiro says so many words so quickly in an effort to try to explain his point... when in his mind, he is just dying to say: "I think that homosexuality and transgenderism is disgusting and immoral, and it should not be discussed with kids." It's dizzying watching him beat around the bush.

[@imageframe8769]

😂 Yep

[@silverTabbed]

Don't sleep on Neil. Dude hides his power level most of the time. He ran circles around Ben's dumb ass.

[@teeellecee]

Love his Star Talks. I listened to him talk about our education system and how it kills our natural instincts for love of learning. He recommends encouraging that love of learning rather than forcing children through our one size fits all educational system. Fascinating discussion on his podcast

[@SteveWoody-vw7oq]

He takes a lot of criticism, but it's usually from people that stricken with Dunning Kruger, lol. But I've always liked his approach to any subject..... always fact based, and information driven thought and analysis.... He's unique, in the regard that he doesn't usually come at an issue, with a hidden agenda​@@teeellecee

[@teeellecee]

@@SteveWoody-vw7oq Also, he doesn't claim all scientific knowledge. He hosts people who know more than him, discusses a topic of their expertise, and then takes questions from regular viewers to expand knowledge. He is interested in educating anyone who just wants to learn more. Smart people know they don't know everything and are open to someone else's perspective rather than acting like they know everything and THEY are the only ones with all the right information. I have learned a lot about quantum theory, etc. that I always thought way over my head because of his discussions on Star Talk.

[@goldenwolfae]

“why do you care” is my personal favorite argument to tell people lol

[@fierce-green-fire8887]

the same reason we care that people aren't discriminated against and so we stand up for them. Men competing against women is unacceptable. So we care to get men out of women's sports. Many reasons why to care. In broad terms we call it empathy and social concern.

[@hondaguy9153]

I'm going to start using this against my brother in law. He's a real life troll.

[@AeriStxr]

​@@fierce-green-fire8887 Funny you call discrimination empathy

[@lucasartore161a]

Ironybros: "we are on the side of science!!" Scientists: *disagree* Ironybros: "WAAAAH CANCEL CULTURE"

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

Why don't you stop playing dumb? Neil didn't agree or disagree, he danced around the issue. Yes, people have the right to believe they are women and express that belief. That doesn't make them correct, and we need to determine who really is correct because some things in society are for men, and some are for women. Like, or I don't know, women's shelters? Women's prisons? Women's sports? You leftists even demand Affirmative Action for women but won't tell us what a woman is.

[@sparklepawz1185]

@@Dennis-nc3vw we do. You just refuse the science or lack the ability to understand that we as a species progress and change our views and ideologies. You say that "they're wrong" without even submitting a reason outside centuries old societal constructs formed back when women were still property. If our society formed like a hyena's our "gender roles" would be flipped, that's how flimsy it is.

[@morgan0__o]

@@Dennis-nc3vw my mayn you getting fked in the comments

[@morgan0__o]

@Fisheryboi true 🙌

[@diobrando1616]

@@Dennis-nc3vw You conservatives seem to forget that there is a difference between Sex and Gender. Sex is what you were born as and gender is what's in your mind and how you are mentally, which is supported by science. Trans people also usually get surgery which makes them more like the gender they are and the sports, prisons stuff wouldn't really matter sense they are not that different than a cis person besides they were born differently.

[@Hatecrewdethrol]

Funny how after this Ben just went back to debating 19 year olds and still losing

[@JHammy642]

Tyson blew Shapiro’s back out with how based he was being

[@blankspace6367]

so ‘base’d it’s like an ‘acid’ test lol

[@yes.ma_am]

Hahaha

[@MindForgedManacle]

So based he broke Shapiro's frame

[@QuinnFC]

Why did hearing Neil Degrasse Tyson say that whether being gay or not is a choice shouldn't matter literally make me cry? I've loved watching his space shows since I was a small child and it just feels so validating to hear him support our rights without question or need for certain requirements to be met, to think we deserve rights simply for existing in this world.

[@Alias_Anybody]

That's true enlightenment, instead of working backwards from your conclusions.

[@wikimuder22]

Bruh

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

So you want your own kids to grow up with gender dysphoria when they could avoid it? Jesus Christ the depravity of the left knows no bounds.

[@Juniversal]

@@Dennis-nc3vw Problem with this logic is the idea you can AVOID gender dysphoria. There may be cases where dysphoria alleviates but in many (if not most) cases the best way to address dysphoria is through gender transitioning and not by simply ignoring it and expecting it to go away

[@katiebayliss9887]

@@Dennis-nc3vw you can’t avoid gender dysphoria if you have it

[@zeldafreak000]

"If you are a libertarian, why do you care?" YES. This is a logical inconsistency I constantly saw even before coming across Vaush. There is no reason why people need to care about how LGBTQ people conduct their lives, but the same people who constantly advocate for "freedom" are always the one that care the most, while the groups they condemn advocate for something far closer to it instead.

[@Onthebrink5]

It is not a logical inconsistency. That is like saying why should you care that specific drugs cause addiction. You want people to have the freedom to use them. Why care about the consequences of using them? Freedom almost always causes some amount of harm. Wanting people to have more freedom does not mean that you must be flippant about everything. A women that has an abortion might suffer some emotional trauma. She is free to do so but we should understand the consequences of that freedom. Freedom is about being free yourself up until the point where your freedom interferes with another persons. The groups that they condemn do not care about freedom whatsoever. You can not be a Bernie supporter and want freedom.

[@trucluu7894]

@@Onthebrink5 on the abortion issue. True, the women may have trauma from that experience, and she should be warned of it, but currently, conservative (and so called libertarian) are forcing that outcome. They are causing as much shame and guilt as possible to those women. Have you seen the inside of a pregnancy crisis center? They keep calling the fetuses children, providing free diaper and baby clothing (and force the women to keep it) and scare the women with outright lies ( like abortion cause breast cancer). They are technically letting the women choose, but they are forcing the women to regret and ashamed of their decision. You can’t blame a person from turning left if you blocked off the right turn.

[@jinmurasaki]

@@Onthebrink5 Research what Portugal did to solve their drug problem. No one should be incarcerated for putting a substance in their own body, full stop. Do you want tobacco cigarettes to be criminalized? What about caffeine? Alcohol? These are all substances that are either, deadly dangerous, super addictive, or cause frequent harm. Where does the harm start with allowing people to be trans or allowing gay marriage? What does Bernie Sanders have to do with any of this?

[@alexantone5532]

Allan Miles wait why is caffeine super bad?

[@someonerandom8552]

@@alexantone5532 When ingested at high enough levels, caffeine can cause heart attacks. Caffeine can also be detrimental to blood pressure and is associated with issues concerning hydration. Not to say you shouldn’t enjoy your coffee. But it is still an addictive substance that can cause health issues all the same.

[@urlocalpagan]

I’ve heard someone put it really well. “Shapiro has a large vocabulary, so he seems smart against average people, but against people who are actually smart, he just flops about aimlessly”.

[@mastergecko1178]

Dr. Tyson: “I think trans people should have the right to exist in a free nation.” Ben: “Nah I don’t think so.”

[@freedom2663]

Finally Ben being based.

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

Christ alive, literally no one argues otherwise. But we have things in our society "for women", have of which you liberals asked for, so I'm pretty sure we have to figure out what a woman is.

[@GamerNRetro]

Neither of those are direct quotes from the conversation.

[@hamburburzz]

@@GamerNRetro obviously not

[@brady9592]

@@hamburburzz This sort of meme-ing is similar to what Vaush justifiably gets upset about when the right does it to him. The point could be made while tracking the convo more directly. It doesn’t feel wrong to us because we make the plausible inference that Shapiro thinks this way, but I wonder sometimes if our discourse is closer in toxic nature to the right than we want to believe.

[@nickokona6849]

I used to be wrong about trans people. Not that I was out advocating against them, or trying to convince others to treat them a certain way. Just, when I was asked, I was wrong. It took a very good friend of mine, who married a trans person dying of a heart attack at 38 years old to key me into my mistake. Now, I've tried to learn about the subject since, but I still find it very hard to internalize into true understanding. But then it hit me. I don't need to understand it really. All I need to do is decide how I want to treat another human being. In the end, that's really the only relevant point. Should I treat another human being like shit? Or should I treat them like how I'd guess they wanted to be treated? That's an easy question to answer, and your answer says a whole lot about you. I choose to treat trans people like humans.

[@BlackGuardXIII]

❤ that’s a kind, caring, loving attitude

[@nickokona6849]

@@BlackGuardXIII My friend was a far better person than I. I try to live up to his example he set.

[@BlackGuardXIII]

@@nickokona6849 🙏

[@nickokona6849]

@@BlackGuardXIII I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. My guess is something like I'm glad or maybe good job?

[@BlackGuardXIII]

@@nickokona6849 it’s thank you. I appreciate your humble tone and focus on kindness. People like Ben may have a fairly good intellectual stance, but lack the basic humanity you describe. I too try to be a better person and treat others with respect and kindness. It’s important to me. Cheers

[@friendlyhobo6483]

This was like watching a College teacher talking to that one student that believes he is smarter than the teacher.

[@videogamenostalgia]

Reminder that Ben is on the record as having gone though Harvard believing he was smarter than his professors.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

Oh god you’re right 💀

[@randallbesch2424]

Science cranks think the same way.

[@jordanmacleod3688]

I respect the fact that Neil Degrasse Tyson is a very well educated man and he’s not to say that he doesn’t know that he doesn’t have the answer. He’s not like Ben Shapiro pretends to have the answer to absolutely everything.

[@natejones4311]

Ben: That's a social point LITERALLY EVERYONE: EXACTLY HE'S FINALLY GETTING THERE

[@EcnalKcin]

Ok, I will say this here, because I am pretty sure I know where you are coming from and if so, you are just wrong. Gender is sex. They are synonyms. "Gender identity" is the psychological relationship someone has with their gender. Neither is a "societal construct", any more than any other word is. Trying to redefine gender into a new term does not change the underlying truth. That is what is happening, it isn't that the word always meant something else, it is people trying to redefine the word to a new meaning. This is a common problem with extremists on the left where they take an existing word with an existing definition, widely misuse it, then create a new definition that fits their misusage in order keep their argument from falling apart. Society doesn't define your gender, biology does. Society defines how other people react to your perceived gender. There is a difference. One is what you are, one is how people act. Self identifying as another gender doesn't change your gender, any more than it changes your skin color by self identifying as another skin color, or any other biological fact. That is psychological condition called "gender dysphoria", and should be addressed as such. One of the ways it might be resolved is transitioning, but that should be a last step in a long process of counseling, because it may not address the actual issue at all, if the issue is the person feels disassociated with their gender, or body, regardless of what there gender is.

[@FaljeLazuli]

​@@EcnalKcin "Gender is sex." In the words of EcnalKcin, "[Y]ou are just wrong."

[@EcnalKcin]

@@FaljeLazuli ?

[@soggos732]

@@EcnalKcin gender and sex are two distinct concepts sex refers to the reproductive organs you have while gender refers to traits viewed as masculine or feminine or neither.

[@EcnalKcin]

@@soggos732 No, "gender" does not refer to traits. "gender traits" refers to gender traits. The only people who use it to refer to traits are those in gender studies, because they have redefined the word in the past couple decades. Outside of that one group of people, that is not the usage or meaning of "gender". Not only that, but gender and sex have been synonyms for about 6 centuries. Just because one flaky group of academics has decided to redefine the word for everyone else, doesn't mean that is the new definition of the word.

[@theMJL]

Youre watching this on Bens yt. Check the comments. They all think Neil is afraid of being cancelled for saying the wrong thing, ignoring the fact that he explicitly says hes afraid of what people and politicians would do with such information. Its like were living in two different worlds from conservatives.

[@letitbeenow]

They're in a cult of ignorance. There's no reasoning with cult members. They have to choose freedom.

[@freddieg7131]

If you are being honest though what is more likely to get Neil cancelled: Saying transgenderism is a mental disorder and schools should teach it as such? Or saying there is no God? You can then guess which topic he likely to be more honest about publicly. Remember, cancel culture is specifically designed to stop people from taking a certain position.

[@HenrikSven]

@@freddieg7131 But cancel culture isn’t really a thing to begin with. Almost every time someone gets “cancelled” a few months later they pretty much just continue on with their careers and the worst they suffer is losing out on a sponsorship or something like that.

[@freddieg7131]

@@HenrikSven It's pretty obvious cancel culture is real and always has been. The only thing which has changed over time is what people get cancelled for. At one point it was just the most extreme people like holocaust deniers or the race and IQ people. Now if you think a man can't have a baby you risk the same treatment. We can't know where exactly this goes but history doesn't give us many examples where it works out great.

[@HenrikSven]

@@freddieg7131 So where exactly are all of these hordes of people getting cancelled for saying “But men can’t get pregnant.” Because if it was such a problem, obviously there’d be tons of people being cancelled over it. Hell, literally one of the people in this video makes those kinds of points constantly, so why haven’t they been cancelled yet? 99% of the time, it’s such a massive extreme you need to go to in order to actually be cancelled. Just because you hear from other people about cancel culture being evil doesn’t make it all true. Stop agreeing with things just because it fits your world view without ever once questioning whether or not it’s actually true.

[@Basilikum42069]

God I want more conservatives to debate with actual scientists

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

It would be absolutely _glorious_

[@georgeyeck-ozark8714]

Conservatives can't debate with actual scientists because they can only resort to belief and opinion.

[@The_Chosen_Heretic]

There’s a beautiful video of Fox News Hosts and Pundits getting blown the fuck out by experts on topics they try to talk on.

[@Michael-st9ky]

Ben was thinking he should go back to debating unprepared college kids

[@The_Word_Is_The_Way]

Your comment is logically flawed by default. It implies there is no such thing as a scientist with conservative views.

[@real-timelabel-freeimaging4653]

NDT was very polite to Shapiro... i could imagine that he wanted to say "you are an idiot", but as he is polite, he was wresling with words, to be polite and bring in his arguments. That was surely hard for him... its like discussing with a flat earther where you like to say "enough, throw me over the edge to end this please".

[@nicolab2075]

He wouldn't stoop to an ad hominem. And didn't need to.

[@indiestripper5374]

NDT: I don't want science to be misrepresented for political motives that will make other people's lives worse ben: "sweats profusely*

[@GadoGD]

Ben shapiro arguing that you can't identify with something not scientifically backed as a religous person is actually insane

[@harryarrieta468]

Anyone who is defending Ben by saying Neil is “sidestepping” his questions clearly doesn’t understand what Neil is saying and needs to listen to it again.

[@robertzeurunkl8401]

Well, it would appear then that I am not the only one seeing the dodge and weave reply tactic.

[@nahthanksno8299]

@@robertzeurunkl8401 bigots often see only what they want to see

[@robertzeurunkl8401]

@@nahthanksno8299 And the most ignorant and uneducated are often the first to toss out words like "bigot" when they have absolutely no idea what or who they are talking about.

[@jay3398]

@@robertzeurunkl8401 whatever helps you sleep at night sir

[@robertzeurunkl8401]

@@jay3398 The best sleep aid is truth, and peace that comes from knowing the truth.

[@kingofpenguins4157]

Wait have I missed something? Why don’t people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson? I have always really respected the way he teaches science in a way that makes it understandable even to the less educated such as myself. He seems pretty down to earth, no?

[@roboket3524]

People have too much anger😂

[@blondinevloggt]

ben actually said "transgender women"!!! was he embarrassed to call them men (like he usually does) in front of someone who might call him out on his bullshit? 🤔 also this video taught me that i'm a rEaL libertarian.

[@shecklesmack9563]

When he uses the term he probably just means "women who think they are men" or whatever.

[@robinvik1]

Ben Shapiro: "So why aren't you a libertarian? Haha" Neil Degrasse Tyson: "No, why aren't YOU?"

[@tteotdead]

Ben knew in that very moment that NDT was right, and NDT provided a much better argument. Ben wanted NDT to associate with his "team" so that he could feel better. I "If you can't beat em, join em." Funny thing is, Ben isn't even a libertarian to begin with.

[@vsiift9373]

You literally just commented the same thing at least 8 other people have lol

[@letitbeenow]

@@vsiift9373 And you'll eat every word up and chew it's deliciousness 😋

[@benjipixel1438]

@@tteotdead PFFFFFT Ben *IS* a libertarian. He's mentioned it himself.

[@colinhays3456]

@@benjipixel1438 he says he is , then acts like he isn't.

[@benh2339]

I'm honestly really surprised how easily NDT's rhetoric shut down Ben and made him look like an idiot. I really thought Ben would have at least some prepared retorts but he had fuck all. That was beautiful.

[@pixel6698]

Ben's fans don't see it that way by looking at the comments on that video. These people are all "Facts don't care about your feelings" until it hurts theirs.

[@Juniversal]

It's been said a million times before but when Ben's not debating a 20 year old college kid it's clear how unimpressive he really is.

[@husnainzahid2618]

what the f**ks up with those many heating fans

[@shinymorganizard8762]

LMAO

[@kris8430]

CHAD Civil Libertarian Neil deGrasse Tyson: “we should study natural phenomena with scientific rigor, while making sure to be aware of politicians using dubious findings to justify taking away the rights of others” beta male Ben: “but mah Lisa Littman study,” “but big man different from woman”

[@DarthScrewtape27]

I’ve always liked Neil. He’s a bit of a corny boomer but his heart and mind are usually in the right place

[@Kaanfight]

I listened to him do a talk and he took off his shoes and just did it in his socks. Def corny boomer shit but also based lol

[@denizkaragullu6239]

He is one of the reasons I am studying Aerospace Engineering right now. He is really good at bringing science to the mainstream

[@ernestogodinez7864]

i never understood the hate he got tbh, i mean ik he's had a bit of dumb tweets and hot political takes but like so does everybody with his status imo lol

[@DarthScrewtape27]

@@ernestogodinez7864 I’ve never been a hater. But it seems to stem from a video of him being a little Pervy looking at a girls tattoo, and his general know it all tweets. I think he’s a corny boomer. And he does know a lot of things

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@Kaanfight he did that at a talk I went to too. It was pretty funny

[@emmasnow2335]

as a trans women, i'd like to thank you for treating us like human beings. thank you.

[@theonionqueen3519]

Girlie pop, you are such a human being. We love you.

[@emmasnow2335]

@@theonionqueen3519 thanks :)

[@smilloww2095]

Sucks that you gotta thank people for the absolute minimum. Hopefully you'll live to see a time where that is no longer the case!

[@abbeyprice7413]

​@@theonionqueen3519 wtf why am I tearing up at this? I needed this.

[@theonionqueen3519]

@@abbeyprice7413 you are the MOST human being!!! You deserve and have the fundamental right to be treated with dignity. Never ever forget that.

[@Princesscolex]

NDT: Where are you going with this? Exactly.

[@Indoor_Carrot]

"Why aren't you a libertarian then?" Just a friendly reminder that Ben wants to ban porn

[@macias7125]

good

[@Indoor_Carrot]

@@macias7125 regardless, it shows his hypocrisy. He claims to be about personal freedom and responsibility, but also wants to tell people they're not allowed to enjoy sex.

[@macias7125]

@@Indoor_Carrot what hypocrisy? Do you not know how damaging p0rn is

[@Mushd3s]

​@macias7125 that's not a good thing

[@macias7125]

@@Mushd3s how

[@AnimeGIFfy]

Ben Shapiro: *gets destroyed and stutters his way through the discussion* Ben Shapirates: WOW ANOTHER WIN FOR BEN

[@bluebird5173]

It’s literally the “Destiny got destroyed in this debate” meme.

[@Dennis-nc3vw]

Ben Shapirates: Say things we actually believe Vaush fans: Say things they don't actually believe for the purpose of gaslighting.

[@Bellitchi]

@@Dennis-nc3vw cry and seethe rightoid

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@Dennis-nc3vw gaslighting? Dramatic much? god.

[@bluebird5173]

I should clarify. It's literally the "Destiny got destroyed in this debate" meme, with Neil deGrasse Tyson being Destiny.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

“The gender spectrum is not science”. Psychology is a science, Bin.

[@nixpixl442]

Bin

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Bin Shapero

[@usudnik4561]

Psychology doesn’t really classify as a science because it doesn’t follow a strict empirical model. It’s a humanity.

[@kirstenalyssa9801]

@@usudnik4561 areas like psychology are often considered a soft science in the same way anthropology is. Both use scientific principles and refer to data but factor in humanity, so they aren’t the same as chemistry or geology.

[@jermanizer]

@@cypher5910 ratio

[@SharonCorbett]

The overview of the interview is immediately forced to reaffirm just what the issue is, highlighting the frightening fact that despite Tyson speaking as clearly as anyone I've heard to date on anything, everyone has only heard what they want to hear and are already hotly contesting what was actually said...like, it was barely finished!?!! Reiterates precisely what Tyson was saying from the very get go. Democracy is exhausting, definitely frustrating too, but never, ever let it slip away. EVER!

[@devos3212]

I love how heated Ben gets when he’s unable to talk over Neil.

[@CrimsonWolf69]

You're kidding right? He's open about how he is explicitly 'nicer' on his Sunday Special.

[@Michael-st9ky]

He had many opportunities to speak over him, neil slowed it down

[@lukelyon1781]

Because that's literally the only way he can appear to "win" debates other than talking really fast.

[@CrimsonWolf69]

@@lukelyon1781 You guys do realize that Ben is only stopping himself and letting Neil interrupt him constantly because it is the *EXPLICIT PURPOSE* of his Sunday Special to play nice to those with opposing views.....right? That's also the only reason most centre-lefties to radical-lefties go onto this specific show of Ben's; because they know he won't jump onto their stupid arguments as hard. If this was *LITERALLY ANY OTHER FORUM* Ben would jump in and absolutely trounce Neil and his clearly bad points.

[@lukelyon1781]

@@CrimsonWolf69 I don't care. Anything that gets that nasal, fast-talking, ferret to shut up at all is fine by me.

[@Ed-en8br]

God its so satisfying to see someone who postures as an intellectual get blown out by a REAL intellectual.

[@lalitthapa101]

Everything's been downhill since the BBC incident

[@shuumatsunojoshua]

Seeing this live was pure ecstasy.

[@officialasa]

Facts. I was so scared that he was gonna give a Dawkins-tier take. I misjudged him, Neil is pretty based

[@notesrhythms6446]

I wish I could’ve seen it!

[@TariqNasheed117]

@@officialasa ofc he is. He's an FBA!!!

[@Sprite_525]

@@officialasa yeah I was nervous that Neil was gonna go “full fedora” lol 😆

[@sensiblymorbid2833]

It really was.... It had an almost euphoric feeling to it. 10/10 :)

[@LancetFencing]

i’m gay and i wasn’t sexually traumatized in my youth or ever!

[@chucku00]

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth _with facts and logic."_ NDT

[@abdurrahmanqureshi3030]

Im pretty sure facts and logic is a ben shapiro joke.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 r/Woosh

[@isgonrain]

most of these "owned" videos don't show ownage. This absolutely does. Tyson makes benny boi look like the absolute dullard he is.

[@Kylora2112]

I think NDT is an insufferable dick when it comes to arts and entertainment (because he tries so hard to not suspend his disbelief and just like, enjoy things), but you can't really not respect him when he's dropping "Does it even matter?" to just obliterate Shen Bapiro's universe. I don't think Benny could formulate any kind of counterargument to Neil decimating his agenda.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@Kylora2112 honestly, I don’t get why people complain about him judging movies for not being scientific. It’s always interesting to learn about the science, and it never bothers me when applied to movies I like because I *can* suspend my disbelief, my enjoyment isn’t ruined afterwards. Just don’t listen to a scientist talk about a Hollywood movie if you don’t want to hear him to complain about the field he teaches.

[@theguildofthetranquilpine5360]

Neil doesn’t need a stupid high pitched voice to sound smart, Ben is just jealous.

[@xaldynnemo47]

Niel: makes an actual libertarian argument, indirectly showing Ben as the fraud he is Ben: SHIT SHIT END THE VIDEO--

[@hu3ll0]

They had a full 1 hour discussion, where do you see him cutting the feed. Why has it become so hard to simply appreciate opposing sides discussing in a civil manner.

[@ian3383]

@@hu3ll0 Ben didn’t seem very “civil” to me, but go off I guess

[@hu3ll0]

@@ian3383 No raised voices, each giving the other time to speak, no cutting off, no ad hominems. Seems pretty civil. Talking like this interview in a calm manner is the best way to let the arguments themselves come to light, even if people disagree.

[@charliekahn4205]

@@hu3ll0 There was quite a bit of interruption

[@senboy9002]

@@hu3ll0 Right at the end of the video where he cut it after Neil made a libertarian argument.