Vermont Brawls - When You Make A DD TILT

[@Flamuu]

This video is a good example of counter-play available to a good player. This short clip is a good example no counter-play available: clips.twitch.tv/IronicHotChamoisDeIlluminati-Hjl6LH6M8EMc5Cmr

[@CesarinPillinGaming]

"fun and engaging" "you just need to interact with subs differently"

[@miguelg6314]

Black days or maybe years in WoWs

[@FormulaZR]

Flolo's smiles every time the torps sailed harmlessly by. Beautiful.

[@gustavchambert7072]

What flamu said at the end is absolutely true. Way back in the day, I think it was even before the CV rework, while I was still playing, I once found myself completely alone on one flank against a gearing and a Hindenburg. In a Yamato. Instead of getting tortured to death while trying to run to my team, all bunched up in the opposite corner of the map and busy dying besides, I decided to charge them. I ended up eating only one torp, out of like two gearing volleys and one ambush from the hindy, and I killed them both in at knife-fighting distance. By that point I was the last one alive on my team, against I think nine enemies. I was by no means a great player, but as long as you understand how torpedoes work, you have counterplay against dds.

[@jakubslavik5595]

Yeah, you have to understand when to be aggresive. From my experience a lot of the times, when you are on a team which loses all its dds and everyone therefore tries to kite, it's better to convince your team that the only way now to win is to push now, because if you don't, you get eventually cornered. It's pretty risky, but it is the only way to change the outcome.

[@MrErizid]

Back in the old days of Ranked, I 7k'd a team to pull a massive come-from-behind win out by using Leg-Mod (super rudder shift) Montana and juking the everloving fuck out of a Gearing to own his soul. None of that is possible now with the new CVs and Subs.

[@jakubslavik5595]

@@MrErizid Yeah I noticed that too, it's just too much shit to deal with now... Look how they massacred our game. :(

[@NecroFlex]

Wouldn't him staying in the cap and just preventing you from getting the cap automatically make him win? You'd both know where eachother was and him being in a DD, he'd easily outrun you around the island. It's a better strategy than trying his luck with torps.

[@aegisbm1]

yeah, guess he was overconfident on his torps because playing like cowards, weaseling around the island on cap is how 90% of dd players win their brawls

[@gallos8807]

@@aegisbm1 That's not playing like cowards, that's just called being smart

[@yourfavoritelawnguy2722]

@@aegisbm1 like cowards? you mean by playing smartly and avoiding the big guns of a BB, the thinking mans action game kekw

[@aegisbm1]

@@gallos8807 found the dd main

[@aegisbm1]

@@yourfavoritelawnguy2722 yeah, running around an island implies so much "action" and requires "playing smartly", top kek.

[@Gazer75]

By being on the other side of the island he would proxy spot and could just drive around the island blocking your capping. Instead he ran out of the cap.

[@Sigrid_Von_Sincluster]

i think the dd staying in the cap behind the island WAS the play in fact, i think that flamu did not realise that the comment in chat was NOT refering to killing him(or at least i don't think it did), but was refering to WINING the game, he did not need to win any harder all he had to do was sit in the cap with the vermont and play around the island, he either has redar so he knows if the vermond is changing course so this way he can do the same in order to keep an island between them at all time ooor he has the smoke, in witch case he has a panic button should he have to turn (alltho he might have been to low for that kind of mistake), all in all i think the problem was he was trying to win HARDER than he already did, there was no reason to attempt to kill flamu, just play ring around the roses with the island and run out the clock

[@pabranva]

He didn't need radar around that island, they would have been proximity spotted and he accelerates/decelerates a lot faster than a Vermont. He could have just stayed on the other side of the island.

[@ImRandomDude]

Exactly, blocking cap gain was winning strategy in that situation

[@johnvga6239]

Good point at the end. This was a great case of the slow-burn pvp strategy game wows used to be and still can be. Fighting against a cv removes the player vs player in a player vs player game

[@joelreis5366]

Can't wait for Flolo stream next week. He's probably not travelling or anything. That poor DD in the end went full copium and tried to get an HE detonation.

[@kovacstibor4339]

painful to watch this dd. if he just went to the island and proxy spot you he would win. no need to be super unicum to do that..

[@brycel5642]

Yeah, I would have easily won that trade in any t10 ship.

[@TallulahSoie]

That shit eating grin is the cherry on top. _Italian hand gesture_

[@Sotha42]

Ohio: 50ks the St Vincent *5 seconds later* Flamu: Can't be citalled Sure you're not Jingles?

[@papasmurf6423]

You can only hit st Vincent citadel at extreme range with plunging fire or if they are turning when you shoot. St. Vincent has a below water citadel. When you hard turn in WoWs it raises one side of your ship up slightly. If the St. Vincent doesn’t touch their rudder then there is almost not chance of landing a citadel at knife fighting range. The Ohio caught him hard turning.

[@ErulianADRaghath]

The dd could have rushed the cap to denied you the cap, and then just played ring around the island. But alas, asking a random to do that is too much of course

[@AKUJIVALDO]

Random? LOL it was clan division against Flamu and 2 randoms in his team.

[@ErulianADRaghath]

@@AKUJIVALDO then he has even less excuse

[@AKUJIVALDO]

@@ErulianADRaghath exactly. YY fooked up.

[@Sporting1210]

true that. You will basically never get outplayed by a 40%er dd in a one vs one., but you WILL get "outplayed" by a 40%er sub or cv ( even a terrible cv player will hit a target like the vermont eventually^^) and i think by now it is established, that this is exactly the reason, why these classes exist in the form they do. And i might add, that even as an experienced dd player this situation ( BB with lots of very accurate guns, a good portion of health left and tons of islands to duck behind) is pretty nasty. Since he had the time he could have used the islands to not give away his position by spotting you and try to yolo you from the other side in the hope to catch you with the guns pointing the wrong way. But with the damage he took earlier he simply got the short straw there.

[@jedpratte]

Cv’s are so easy. I haven’t played a cv match in over a year. Think I’m meh 55% WR and good pr in one. Jumped in my hakuryu the other night. First match in a year 3 kills 185k…

[@Γιώργος-λ4σ]

His player stats didn't seem too bad either, let's not bash on the wrong people here.. I think he just got way too into the "kill streamer" thing, idk if that island was small enough to proxy spot Flamu But I think he lost almost all hope when he let him cap both points...

[@CeltSfodster]

Best play for DD would have been to stop spotting, go dark and gamble on guns pointing wrong way. By keeping him spotted Flamu knew the DD’s position and where to expect torps to come from. A simple check of the clock tells you when to move.

[@AKUJIVALDO]

LOL What a genius/s DDs don't go "dark" with spotting unless he hides behind islands to break line of sight...which just shows his position even more clearly. Last spotted icon and detection/no detection gives way more information in 1VS1. YY just should have went back into caps and sat behind island. He is way faster than Vermont and with proxy detection it would be easy win.

[@thekhabtain2225]

All he had to do was delay the cap like 20s and then he could do whatever he wanted. Have to take a risk when you're in the losing position. If he had RPF, it would've been a free game. But skill issues are the #1 cause of losses.

[@Cipher332]

If he had just occupied both the caps, he would have won on points. All he had to do that game was LITERALLY. NOTHING. And as usual, he couldn't even do that. Superunicum has nothing to do with it, he just failed to recognise a victory situation. If he had played even remotely well, you would have lost, and no amount of skill on your part would have saved you. In short, he outplayed himself.

[@Arisudev]

Exactly his point. Against surface ships, skill matters. Against CVs and subs, skill doesn't matter because you get wrecked whatever you do.

[@Cipher332]

@@Arisudev It's worth noting that a CV may not have been able to decap, and a savy enough captain could have kited away in a bid to outlive the CV long enough to win on points. A sub would have struggled to cap due to the need to be surfaced, poor turn speed, no smoke and damage limited to torpedo's. So I'd argue that it matters with all ships, no matter how many salty people say otherwise.

[@Arisudev]

@@Cipher332 ah I think you didn't see the video. For flamu to win he must cap or sink the enemy. A CV can reset him every 30 seconds, winning on points if not sinking him. You can't run away from a CV either (tell me how you're going to "kite" a plane 5x your speed lmao). A sub will torp him every 30 seconds, also resetting and sinking him. No need homing, just conventional torp. No need to surface either. Even if the sub is surfaced, it can outspot the BB anyway. TLDR: The enemy sub or CV have to be extremely stupid, with IQ below the ground, in order to lose a fight like this.

[@Cipher332]

​@@Arisudev I did see the video, twice actually. I also saw how the DD blundered. He had the island between him and Flamu, and could have broken LOS to hold the caps down, and won on points. He had all the advantages. If a CV was in the game, he would have had two choices: Rush the CV and hope for the best, or attempt to cap around the periphery and then withdraw, while minimising damage. Depending on the CV, you can force his planes to travel across longer distances, maximising survivability as the score ticks. He's also playing in a Vermont, who's AA is respectable. If he had capped, the Sub would have needed to surface to contest the cap, or lose the game. It could have attempted to kill Flamu, but all Flamu would have needed to do is time his Depth charges well, and remained at a reasonable distance away from the sub, forcing its torps to chase him. But this is all hypotheticals, the point is the DD dun goofed and that is the primary reason why he won.

[@leshinar]

wait.. can you win on points in brawl when the time runs out? if so, he should have just ducked around the island when he had the lead, contest the caps. keep you proxy spotted and simply play with you around the island until the time ran out..

[@darren_anscombe]

Yup but that would require thinking and breathing at the same time, a quallity most WoWs players do not posess.

[@darren_anscombe]

I pondered on @Flamuu response to this as even in reverse the DD could possibly evade the BB around the island if it had got there before the points had turned, thereby denying the win.

[@stevenjohns7017]

What happens in Amsterdam stays in Amsterdam!

[@Pietro9173]

Flamu is a cyborg with a built in timer

[@我就爛-l1h]

been away from this game for a long time did RPF still exist? as a SEA player, a good DD can utilize RPF and obtaining MASSIVE information even w/o seeing other this is more significant in an one on one combat I didn't see flolo been locked on by RPF ever in this game

[@Moksii_]

i live in the Netherlands, and a great place for craft beers is 'Gollem Craft Beers' in Amsterdam

[@Brinckie]

Have fun in Amsterdam @Flamu sadly have other things to do this weekend. Would have loved to meet up though, live 45 minutes away from it 😅 On the video: Hard pressing for the island, blocking both caps and playing ring around the rosies while being inside assured detection range was one of the few remaining options which could have worked. He would have to be facing the other direction then where he came from to use his better(or worse since balanced Vermont BB racecar take off power?) yy maneuvering and acceleration. Very hard to pull off since yy had no vision or hp/heal "tools" like the weak BB does. Did not notice that yy having smoke or radar, only rpf could have been more usefull all the time.

[@Pepega_Ch]

Oof, enemy DD just gave you a free win

[@ainzooalgown7589]

the worst part is the other team is a div of clanmates, probably on coms and they lose to the slowest speed and reloading BB in game

[@Pepega_Ch]

And they all got killed by the same person. Lmfao

[@lazyice8329]

In the german weekly stream today, they praised alliance for the ability to farm unsinkable achievements when you fight against them. Sacrificing your time and fun in the game for a useless achievement, that's truely what the player base wants.

[@jasper5878]

Really scared of a Vincent in a Vermont. I am not scared of a Vincent in a monte. The only time I am scared of a Vincent is when I am in a Cruiser.

[@JACKnJESUS]

Crowne Plaza near Central station has incredible shrimp croquettes.

[@Itsbaywatch]

He could have just circle camped you around the island in cap but for some reason he didn’t.

[@sozetsukokai9327]

have fun in Amsterdam, flolo

[@alfredneumann4332]

beautifully played

[@PieterKleij]

I lived 30 years in Amsterdam. Have fun, hope iot won't be so overcrowded as the last time I made a visit back.

[@SebaX92]

Foamy you could ez pen Vincent nose, why aiming high like if it was a Montana?

[@suburbanview]

WOW ANOTHER MASTER CLASS

[@GoldNargacuga]

Have fun in Amsterdam, stay away from those coffee shops KEKW

[@Labils]

St vincent have a 25 mm bow right? Why not just shoot the bow with vermount accuracy

[@Rob.DB.]

Why Amsterdam? Is it "cool" or just very friendly city?

[@AKUJIVALDO]

Easy weed and hookers, why else? Most of people goes for that.

[@Rob.DB.]

@@AKUJIVALDO

[@bobochungi1541]

haven't done brawls yet, i plan to take my Schlieffen into a few soon Edit: I did a bunch with Vermont and it's awesome

[@weir-t7y]

Vermont is the only coping mechanism Flamu has left for this bullshit game

[@weir-t7y]

@FLAMU12 scam bot

[@eze8970]

TY🙏🙏

[@scheimong]

Yeah I agree it would take a superunicum DD player to win that against you. Wasn't easy. With a carrier or sub however... 😅

[@archabe]

Dont get so wasted you fall into the canal.

[@craigalexander966]

I played one brawl in my schiffen smoke YY charged me died and I kited a GK to death then torped the fuk outta a Pruessen, my “teamates” spent the whole game behind an island, no more brawls for me.

[@TaskForce-ql3bx]

Traveling to Amsterdam? Make sure you check out the public transportation, its in a helluva bad shape atm due to protests.

[@AKUJIVALDO]

As it should be. Government taking farmers lands away to put more immigrants in newly built high rises on ex-farmers lands.

[@LiveErrors]

You guys remember when Flolo thought that Vermont was stupid and pointless?

[@Flamuu]

Yep, we do, and then WG buffed the hell out of it.

[@Arisudev]

You've been living in a cave for 2 years?

[@LiveErrors]

@@Arisudev no i just dont play the game these days

[@Arisudev]

@@LiveErrors fair enough. You're doing well for your mental health 👍

[@LiveErrors]

@@Arisudev in a way i am greatefull to WoWs, it made me apreciate other games that much more

[@damaddog8065]

You bully 😂

[@mikestion4629]

american might!

[@sameh59younis15]

FUCK now wg well release like 10 dev blogs with all kind of bullshit in them cant wait for super petro

[@rickb6694]

I uninstalled the game today. 7 years and thousands of dollars. FU WG.

[@Klaus99999]

What made you finally do it?

[@Testacabeza]

Me too. 7 years.

[@Michael-D-or-MD]

But did you delete your account? If not then it doesn’t count

[@droidmotorola3884]

​@@Klaus99999 the new submarine probably

[@rickb6694]

@@Klaus99999 I'm the poster child for "player fatigue." It's a cumulative effect; never ending power creep/gimmicks/overmatch/OP fantasy ships/shameless monetization. Horrible subs and CVs in every match, shitters going straight to T10, effectively being punished for leaving spawn.... All my friends have quit the game. The straw that broke the camel's back was division "super unicums" exploiting hybrid BBs in CV divisions, then having subs shoot their load point blank in my face while playing a DD with zero counterplay.... Zero loyalty is shown for long term, PAYING customers. They've thrown the player experience under the bus for a quick buck.

[@forge16hanadamaintenancedr43]

Why does the entire comment section think they are better than a player with 58% win rate over 10000 games? What? He played a bit greedy for the early game, for sure, but I’m pretty sure at least half of the comment section would just die 2 minutes earlier. Myself included because I’m even more greedy than this guy.

[@Cat_in_The-Box]

Judging by the title I expected some hate mail or salt in match chat but nothing so is it really a tilted player :(

[@daisyftw]

Visit Rotterdam instead!!

[@maxgern9186]

Wow

[@admiralprinceeric323]

It's pretty okay on Vermont at Brawls in 3v3. But I usually stay on the long range and I don't close ahead on key areas.