VEVOR 🆚 DEVIL FORGE : WHICH IS BETTER⁉️

[@markbrinton6815]

when I was taking casting classes, we would put the ingot molds on top of the furnace to heat them. Als, the molds were made of Angle with end plates. Really easy to remove.

[@SJWCASTING]

I do that too 😉. I’ve used and abused these molds for a while now so it’s a bit harder to remove ingots 😅

[@Yodiyst]

Add borax detergent and it will fix it👌 borax may ruin the graphite crucible after extended use, try sprinkle some borax on the molten copper after it’s in the mold. Preheat the molds also

[@SJWCASTING]

I’ll try that! I always preheat my molds 😉.

[@1docg]

When melting copper, borax can be used as flux. Borax can help with the following: Improving flow: Borax can improve the flow of molten metal when added during melting. Preventing oxidation: Borax can help prevent oxidation. Drawing out gasses and oxides : Borax can draw gasses and oxides out of molten metal. Coating the crucible: Borax can prime the crucible so that metals don't stick to the inside during cooling. Removing impurities : Borax can float to the surface of molten metal, bringing up impurities that can be scooped off.

[@SJWCASTING]

I normally use it for brass melts..

[@SJWCASTING]

But I think I’ll use it to “clean” my copper

[@terrydowning6365]

Are you pre-heating your molds? I've seen other KZbinrs do that, it might help. 😀✌❤

[@SJWCASTING]

I always preheat my molds 😉. Otherwise it could go very bad very quickly

[@scottbenson8105]

I don’t know what kind of company vevor is but I just bought a new Devil Forge and I wasn’t happy about how the lid lines up with the bottom and they are sending me a new one free of charge and I get to keep the one I have as a backup, now that’s a company!!.

[@SJWCASTING]

Vevor sells a lot of stuff. Not only forges but a lot of other equipment. You don’t need to sent the other one back?😐. That’s why they are so expensive😅. But indeed, that’s good customer service!

[@scottbenson8105]

@@SJWCASTING I got mine on sale for 150 after tax and if you buy them on eBay it’s cheaper than on their site. And they are more expensive on Etsy so it all depends on where you buy it.

[@SJWCASTING]

@scottbenson8105 150 is a very good deal!! I overpaid for mine😒

[@scottbenson8105]

@@SJWCASTING just so you know I got the 4 kg not the 10 or 20. The reason why I got the 4kg is because the 2kg cost even more

[@SJWCASTING]

@scottbenson8105 I thought something like that 😉. It’s a good starter forge size😉

[@curtwarkentin2887]

Im kinda guessing the Devil Forge and Vevor are equal for performance. But the difference is in the accessories. DF i believe has more and better options available as a kit. But you also pay a premium for those extras. With DF you are paying for the experience of the builder to give you a more refined so to speak kit so the crucible and things will last longer. Vevor seems like a box store kinda thing where they want cheap and big numbers. Product doesn't have the expertise behind its kit like the round tongs for picking up the crucible from the furnace as compared to pincers to pull it up out of the vevor. Correct me if im wrong but your results kinda show they are very similar in performance but longevity id have to bet on DF. The round tongs will be easier on the crucible I've read in other video comments.

[@SJWCASTING]

I couldn’t have said it better myself 😉. I agree with you. They both get the job done but DF is more premium.

[@lewisgiles8855]

Dude your stack is looking PHAT!!!

[@SJWCASTING]

Thanks!!😁

[@mattyal9347]

I paused as soon as you asked we viewers whick forge is better. Three factors come to mind. The placement of the fuel tube in which they both seem to create a vortex, the quality of the kaowool which we have no way of knowing and the thickness of the kaowool. So my moneys on the devil forge

[@SJWCASTING]

I didn’t think about the thickness of the kaowool 😅.

[@pointeisabel]

Those bubbles are usually formed due to impurities in your metals, melting soldered copper pipes or any kind of waste metal will cause these porosities

[@SJWCASTING]

Strange because these are from cables, clean cables 😅

[@ΒελερεφοντησΜιχαλησ]

Did you pre-heat the moulds before put the mold copper in?? For the moisture.. you now...

[@SJWCASTING]

I always do😉

[@jamescueva305]

Could it be the lack of borax causing the holes? Did you heat the molds before pouring?

[@SJWCASTING]

With clean copper I didn’t use borax. I never used borax with copper but I think I get the copper to hot. Yes, I always preheat the molds 😉.

[@NiallOGrady]

I had the porosity issue with copper, happens when copper cools too quickly releasing dissolved gas as it stopped happening when I started getting the mold to red hot before pouring

[@SJWCASTING]

I’ve tried that before but didn’t do anything 😅.

[@jaredjones6570]

Bing Copilot says: "The three approaches you've mentioned are indeed common methods to reduce or eliminate voids in copper pours during smelting: 1. **Temperature Control**: Precise control of the temperature can help ensure that the copper melts uniformly, reducing the likelihood of gas entrapment and void formation. Overheating can cause excessive gas absorption, while underheating can lead to incomplete melting and poor flow, both of which can create voids. 2. **Vibration Table / Pad**: Using a vibration table or pad can help to agitate the molten copper, allowing trapped gases to escape to the surface before the metal solidifies. This method is often used in conjunction with other techniques to enhance their effectiveness. 3. **Use of Additives (e.g., Copper Phosphorus)**: Additives like copper phosphorus can act as degassing agents. They help by combining with the oxygen to form stable oxides, which can then rise to the surface of the melt. This process reduces the oxygen content in the molten copper, thereby minimizing the potential for voids caused by gas entrapment. In addition to these methods, you might also consider: - **Fluxing**: Using a flux like borax can help remove impurities and oxides from the surface of the molten metal, which can also contribute to void formation. The flux can absorb these impurities and facilitate their removal as slag⁵. - **Protective Atmosphere**: Introducing an inert or reducing atmosphere during the melting process can prevent oxidation and reduce the formation of voids due to gas entrapment. - **Pouring Technique**: The way the molten copper is poured into the mold can influence the formation of voids. A steady, controlled pour that minimizes turbulence can help prevent air entrapment. Each method has its own set of considerations and may be more or less effective depending on the specific circumstances of the smelting process. It might be beneficial to experiment with a combination of these techniques to determine the most effective approach for your particular setup. Remember to always prioritize safety when working with molten metals and high temperatures."

[@jaredjones6570]

I had prompted it with: "I'm trying to come up with ways to remove voids from copper pours during smelting. So far, the Internet has recommended three approaches: 1) Temperature Control, 2) Make a vibration table / pad and set a stack of fire bricks on it and put the smelting furnace on that, 3) use additives such as copper phosphorus to degas the copper in the crucible before the pour"

[@SJWCASTING]

I’m gonna try controlling the temperature a bit better and use copper phosphorus when I remelt those “bad” ingots. And pour more calmly also could help 🤔

[@jaredjones6570]

@@SJWCASTING Another thing I noticed while comparing your video to some others' videos is that you poured the copper into the center of the graphite mold. Maybe it would be less turbulent if you poured from the side of the mold. I'm just getting into smelting, myself. So I've been watching a lot of videos on the topic lately and it seems to me that the people that poured on the side experienced less bubbling on the surface compared to other methods of pouring. But again, I'm no expert. Haha. Good luck with your pours! I appreciated this video

[@SJWCASTING]

@jaredjones6570 ah really?! Never thought of that! Thanks for the info😉.

[@SJWCASTING]

@jaredjones6570 good luck with melting and be safe!

[@mattyal9347]

Might be asbestos from the wire coating causing the bubbling over. I don't think your forges will get hot enough to disintegrate it if thats what it is. I think it takes 2000 to 2500 degrees farenheit... and lots of ventilation!

[@mattyal9347]

I have an idea that the contamination is floating to the top,cooling and causing it to seal. Not good for molten copper. So make a long narrow tube shape in tightly packed sand. Then remelt the problem copper and let it cool. I suspect if you cut 1in ch off the top the contaminated copper will be removed

[@SJWCASTING]

I sure hope not! I have a bunch more of those cables. The devil forge should go up to 2640°F, so the devil forge should burn everything off 🤔

[@SJWCASTING]

Thank you, I’ll try that!

[@brandt-heiss]

I saw that bubbling copper the first time now. Have you measuring the temperature of your molten copper? Maybe its a little bit to hot... Your copper reminds me on boiling water... I mean the devilforge brings the metal easily on 1400 degrees Celsius. But thats just an idea. Greetings from Bavaria.

[@SJWCASTING]

No I don’t measure the temperature of copper, when it’s molten, I pour it 😅.

[@justanothermeltingchannel]

Interesting video. I wonder how the vevor furnace would compare if you were able to regulate the propane pressure better so it would be on equal terms as the Devil-Forge.

[@SJWCASTING]

Thank you! Hmm, that’s a good point🤔. I’ll take a look at regulators and do an other comparison 😁.

[@theoriginalDirtybill]

@@SJWCASTING switch regulators between the units and re test. if the regulators are an issue it will show in the results.

[@SJWCASTING]

Well issue is a big thing.. With the devil forge one you can see what pressure of gas that you have. With the Vevor not and that’s the only thing. But I could switch them up🤔

[@theoriginalDirtybill]

@@SJWCASTING i'll probably end up buying a vevor, there so damn cheap and for the occasional melt or heat treat its hard to justify the additional cost of Big stack D's furnace. if i was going into the casting business i would definitely spend the extra money on the devil Forge.

[@theoriginalDirtybill]

@@SJWCASTING also the newer vevor units have legs on the side so you can use it horizontally for forging knifes and whatnot.

[@gianpaologazzola1234]

Hello very nice video. I would like to buy a 12 kilo Vevor furnace, can you tell me how long it takes to melt copper, thanks

[@SJWCASTING]

Thank u for watching!! It depends on how much copper you want to melt. But you could melt a few pounds in about 10 minutes..

[@gianpaologazzola1234]

@@SJWCASTING Thanks

[@royalgaming7216]

What's funny is I actually commented on skullers original video where he was having this problem and I'll tell you the same thing I told him looks like you need a degassing agent which for copper is phosphorus and you can buy something called phosphor copper which has phosphorus added to it which will react with the probably hydrogen that is absorbed into the metal but the downside is the one good place to get high quality phosphor copper is Belmont metals (that i know of) and you have to buy at least a certain amount so it's a little pricey or you can go to the poor man's method and you can buy some phosphor copper brazing rods now they're not pure copper they have a bit of silver and some other stuff in them and I actually bought them because they reduce porosity in the metal which is great for sand casting which is what I do but I think that's what you need

[@SJWCASTING]

Yeah I know he had the same issues 😅. Oh ok, so how many copper phosphorus rods do I need? Is there an indication of some sort to know if it’s enough?😉. Found 5 rods for €4 ($4.38).

[@SJWCASTING]

Thanks for the tip btw!!!

[@royalgaming7216]

Sorry for the late response, I didn't get a notification. But the amount that you need should be very very small from what I was reading it's about 1.5 Oz of phosphor copper per 100 lb of metal. What I was always told was to cut a grain of rice-sized piece and put two for every pound since the amount of phosphorus is only 7%, in the high-grade stuff is about double that so you would use only one grain of rice size piece per pound. but I was watching a video from an old guy that was in the Navy and worked in a Foundry he said it's also important to dunk and stir so what I would do is take copper foil put the pellets inside attach that to a graphite stir rod with some copper wire and then dunk and stir it, don't forget to preheat it. though that may not be necessary I don't actually know it may just work if you just put it in and stir. found the video here it is where he is talking about how they would use phosphor copper kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaSomH6rpKuKl9k

[@royalgaming7216]

And one more thing I'm just going to mention again I've never had this problem with the bubbling over like that but from my research this is what you would do. And I would definitely recommend doing some of your own research on this. like I said I just do it to reduce porosity in sand castings. good luck though😁👍

[@SJWCASTING]

@@royalgaming7216 that’s ok😉. Oh ok. I thought it would be more😅. Wow, I will need to buy quite some stuff. But I’ll take a look and see if I can find everything. I’ll check out the video 😉.

[@wvcruffler123]

Why do you quench the ingots rather than let them cool on their own? Is there a benefit to hardening them?

[@SJWCASTING]

That way I could clean them faster, didn’t had the time to let them cool off and then clean everything up 😅

[@1docg]

Are you accumulating all that copper to sell? Is there a premium price for copper ingots compared to raw un-smelted scrap? Does it pay to create the ingots over just cleaning the copper? Or do you do something special with the ingots? I'm thinking about the global copper shortage here.

[@SJWCASTING]

Yes, I do but not now. I’m waiting for the day that copper skyrockets 😁. Oh yeah, scrapyards pay scrap prices. If you sell them online, you could ask up to €30/kg at this moment. The cleaner the ingot, the more you could ask for it. I’ve seen copper ingots (0,400kg or 1 pound) for €20-€25..

[@Mystic-Mountain-Morphs]

I have only done probably 100 copper bars my self and just recently started doing videos on my snake channel here but i have never seen this issue. I use a cutting torch to heat my molds and so far only have used vevors electric furnace / Smelter. So maybe your copper is to hot? Idk it could be a lot of different reasons. I am fairly new buti have never used flux i think useing the cutting torch to heat molds has really made my bars smoother. Who knows like i said i am still very new to this i know the electric vevors only get to 1150c so temp may be an issue who knows awesome video buddy keep it up

[@SJWCASTING]

Yeah I think I got the copper a bit tot hot. Usually I only use flux with brass. I don’t like using the electric furnace, it takes to long and could damage it doing long, hot melts. Thank u!!

[@Mystic-Mountain-Morphs]

@@SJWCASTING no thank you I really enjoyed watching your videos! I am getting the Vevor propane one soon. Keep it up buddy 👍

[@SJWCASTING]

Glad you liked it!! Enjoy it!😁

[@MrBacchus-cz4kk]

You can stir the copper in the crucible with a stick and the wood will help the degassing and you just scrape the ash off the surface.

[@SJWCASTING]

Just a stick? Now that’s something I just need to try out!

[@jimcatanzaro7808]

I use a 7/16 12” carbon rod to mix my borax in after I scoop out any slag and I mix the borax in there good and let it heat up again then pour it should make you bars nice

[@SJWCASTING]

Thanks for the tip 😉

[@TheJohndeere466]

Just wondering, how many melts do you get from a crucible

[@SJWCASTING]

It depends on how you treat them. Some could hold 15-20. If you abuse them, 10 or less.. I know a guy that tempers his crucibles before every melt. And his reach 100-150…

[@TheJohndeere466]

@@SJWCASTING I ordered a furnace from vevor but they sent my money back. Never said why.

[@dukenukem001]

@@SJWCASTING do the oven thing slowly to 500 like always .. then let them cool and fill each about 1/4 full of borax ... as soon as the borax becomes liquid pull it from the forge and rotate to coat the entire inside of crucible ... let it set somewhere to cool .. I've gotten 75 to 100 melts in crucibles with copper .. more with aluminum and zinc ( note - these are decent quality crucibles but ive found spending a bit more now and using the "process" ends up much cheaper in the end )

[@SJWCASTING]

@dukenukem001 I’ll try that. But I only have ‘low quality’ crucibles. Higher quality ones are too expensive to ship in my case😅. But I’ll try the coating

[@SJWCASTING]

@@TheJohndeere466 that’s strange, ever contacted the help office?

[@lodebleux7241]

looked like the mold you emptied and refilled did not have that problem. That mold was warmer and the last copper you poored was a bit less hot. So could be something with to do with to hot copper to start with or to much cooled down molds.

[@SJWCASTING]

It could be the copper was a bit too hot, I didn’t check the temperature when I melted the copper😅.

[@karryterran9409]

Hmmmmmm. Interesting perhaps let them cool more, a vibrating pad may help the gases escape. preventing the pockets. Just a thought.👍 kinda looked like cheese.😏

[@SJWCASTING]

Cool down the copper before pouring? I’m not sure how I’m gonna make a vibrating pad 😅.

[@dukenukem001]

@@SJWCASTING I made one with an old 6 inch disc sander ... made a massive difference .. especially for copper ... almost never have holes and a nice smooth finish ... top still always looks like a typical copper top ... I had a metal storage box approx 18 inches square .. ran the cord through a hole i drilled in the base and put some fire brick on top ... it also makes the coolest silver bars too with the perfect wavy finish

[@SJWCASTING]

Allright I need to try that!

[@herito2589]

did you ever try to pre-heat the molds?

[@SJWCASTING]

I always pre-heated my molds.

[@MazinRady]

Hi! Can I use Liquified Petroleum Gas or LPG instead of propane? Btw. Big Fan! Regards,

[@1972Russianwolf]

LPG is what we call Propane here. It may have a bit of butane or isobutane, but its primarily propane.

[@wazega3610]

if you heat your mold red hot before pouring it comes out much nicer

[@SJWCASTING]

I tried that once but it didn’t work 😅

[@alexbeebe2652]

You may need to melt it all down, flux with borax or whatever is recommended for copper, and skim the surface of all dross before pouring. Also try preheating your molds really well before pouring they need to dry and off gas.

[@SJWCASTING]

Yeah i found a flux for copper but I forgot how it’s called. I always preheat my molds pretty good 😉.

[@1988Mauritz]

maybe you could try "whisking" it a few times when its melting if you need to refill to crucibel or do it a min before the pour to maybe let some gas out. thats just a thought i never tryeded it myself

[@SJWCASTING]

Whisking doesn’t help that much sadly. I tried it in other video’s 😉.

[@caferacerbikedesign224]

I have never used Borax if I melting copper.. you have to warm up the mold

[@SJWCASTING]

Some people use it for copper. I always preheat my molds 😏

[@Truck_Company_84]

So as a beginner, which do y’all recommend? I myself am leaning towards Devil Forge, but the Vevor seems to be a good price as well.

[@SJWCASTING]

It all about how much you want to spend on it. If you don’t want to spend a lot of money just to try it, go for the vevor melting furnace. It’s as good as the devil forge in my opinion, just choose the right size 😉. Devil forge is a bit more expensive but I’ve used it for 2years every weekend and it still works like new (it sure doesn’t look so😅).

[@jeromechamp1067]

Tu a être déçu mon ami je vien acheter le vevor 6k gaz pour aluminium nickel mais pour le cuivre une autre histoire 1h30 et le cuivre reste toujours en blocs très déçue 😢😢😢😢

[@SJWCASTING]

That’s strange because mine works perfectly with copper. Is the inlet of the gas flush with the insulation? Do you have enough air intake? Do you have enough gas pressure?

[@jeromechamp1067]

@@SJWCASTING désolé je comprends pa anglais 🤣

[@SJWCASTING]

@jeromechamp1067 Google translate 😁. C'est étrange car le mien fonctionne parfaitement avec du cuivre. L'arrivée de gaz est-elle au ras de l'isolant ? Avez-vous suffisamment d'air ? Avez-vous suffisamment de pression de gaz ?

[@830jps]

Check your temp. Maybe you are burning the metal or not removing the slag. Nice video

[@SJWCASTING]

There was not much slag. Only some leftover borax. I’m gonna check the temperature next time and add some Phosphorus Copper and hope it helps. Thanks you!!

[@timsmith9645]

Bummer that that the copper bar's didn't turn out well I hope you can figure it out what's wrong anyway thanks for sharing

[@SJWCASTING]

I know 😔. I hope, I’ll won’t give up until I got clean copper ingots 😁. Thanks for watching buddy!!

[@timsmith9645]

You're welcome friend anytime

[@JSc0tty]

To bad the copper ingots keep failing. I hope you’ll find the cause soon and fix it 😁

[@SJWCASTING]

I know buddy, I’ll find a solution someway somehow 😁.

[@tommyreimrock8667]

people will claim "Devil forge" is better because of the name solely. shit Ill buy a 3 gallon metal trash can and some ceramic blanket, stamp Devil forge on it and sell them for 500 dollars each. Edit: Ill name my forge "satans Hell hole" so it wont be a copy right infringement..lol

[@SJWCASTING]

You nailed it!🤣.

[@WildernessMedic]

Nah. Because Vevor is shit. Chinesium hose clams that don't seal and crappy quality materials like flimsy hose. Mine literally lit on fire.

[@SJWCASTING]

@WildernessMedic I never had any problems with mine🤔

[@WildernessMedic]

@@SJWCASTING I bought a Vevor furnace and forge. Both were awful and went back. Do you not see a big difference in the furnace hose between Vevor and Devil? My Vevor one felt like it came from the dollar store and was unsafe...

[@WildernessMedic]

@@SJWCASTING I just looked at your video again. I definitely DID NOT get that hose. Mine was so thin it collapsed on itself. It was very cheap flimsy rubber.

[@silversleuth007]

I like them. Stack them on their sides?

[@SJWCASTING]

That’s a great idea!!!😃

[@stevensmith6231]

The Vevor furnace is smaller, so that would affect the results...

[@SJWCASTING]

But that doesn’t matter, same amount of copper was melted.

[@drechsel97]

True, but it may have been a different temperature overall than the other forge. I mould a lot of lead... When i get it too hot or not hot enough, it's still melted, but I get different results when I cast it.

[@SJWCASTING]

That could be true, but it wouldn’t be that much different.

[@dukenukem001]

heating molds is OVER RATED .. I heat mine just enough to remove moisture ... then let them sit 60 seconds to even out the temp ... that along with my vibrating base make a perfect copper pour every time ... silver too ... (I will add they MUST be moisture free or bad things happen) ... but moisture free doesnt nesc mean hot

[@SJWCASTING]

As long if you get the moisture out, that’s fine😉. But I was struggling with the many holes in the ingots.. so I was trying different stuff. Where you got the vibrating plate from? I’m looking to get/make something like that.

[@indiafoxtrot2572]

Merci d’avoir réalisé la Vidéo ! C’est très interessant !

[@SJWCASTING]

De rien, merci 😉

[@samantherfellows5057]

that was a good melt and good clear pour its got to be the moulds cheap ones

[@SJWCASTING]

I actually never had that many (or any) holes before I started melting those cables. I used those molds before and had super clean ingots.

[@samantherfellows5057]

it comes down to the copper then mite not of been pure nice melt tho keep going i see nothing with a phew mistakes keep up the good vids m8

[@wazega3610]

very funny video!

[@PhilipRomeo69]

The 😈 forge

[@SJWCASTING]

😁

[@KrakenCasting]

That expanding copper is so weird! I wonder what's causing it.

[@SJWCASTING]

Yeah I hate that I don’t know what’s wrong 😅

[@caferacerbikedesign224]

Ich habe in meinen letzten Videos einen Vevor Schmelzofen benutzt. Das Zubehör wie die beigelegte Zange ist in schlechter Qualität. Die beigelegte Form ist sehr gut und es gibt keine Blasen beim Gießen. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXO0fHeHq6esprMsi=SpTdtJT9I4M7THNA

[@taftancastingchannel]

عالی بود 👍🏼

[@SJWCASTING]

Thank you!

[@jimcatanzaro7808]

You might need borax and stir it around a few times

[@SJWCASTING]

I usually use it for brass only🤔.

[@SkalpSolo]

The small one should go faster ..maybe

[@SJWCASTING]

It should be but the bigger one got a better insulation and choke.

[@freeman6147]

ridiculous amount of adverts!

[@SJWCASTING]

Really? How much? KZbin is getting worse and worse😔

[@1978garfield]

Use them for a year and then tell us.

[@SJWCASTING]

Even for two years. That won’t make a difference.. the only thing that needs to be changed is the Kaowool. And that’s on both of them.

[@marcojimenez1459]

Keep practice 😂😂

[@SJWCASTING]

2 years isn’t enough? 🤔😏