DHATL 2019 SSBU Singles - Cosmos (Inkling) Vs. Wrath (Sonic) Smash Ultimate Tournament Losers Top 8

[@theimpersonator7086]

It still amazes me how good Sonic in in Ultimate despite being heavily nerfed and having several key dysfunctional moves. KEN has been consistently top 8ing Japanese Majors, and is a likely contender for top 15 on PGRU Season 2

[@mazinhassan3072]

The Impersonator Yeah and people still say he’s mid tier 😒 Sonic is high tier for sure

[@toyotagaming]

Ken is top 15 skillwise but won't make top 15 on the pgr since he hasn't attend any US events and the PGR is biased against international players lol.

[@MatesMonchis]

@@toyotagaming I like how there are only American and International people now. It used to be a hassle to remember all those countries.

[@tylerwilson1024]

@@mazinhassan3072 I still wouldn't put sonic at High tier. Sonic is good, but not that good to be placed above from I seen honestly. There are quite s few players that whoop butt with mid tier characters quite a bit. Sonic isn't as bad as some people make him seem, but definitely not high tier

[@christiancream]

Superpokemaster It’s not the PGR’s fault most tournaments are in the US, and they even added an international bonus to the tournament tier system, you don’t know what you’re talking about

[@julianb.f4007]

Imagine if all Sonic's moves wee functional, I will always want to see him redesigned to atleast have multiple different specials

[@ViscountJimmy]

Find Sonic so boring to watch, which sucks because the character has style. At a loss for how they can make his neutral less cenrtalised around dashing through/away on loop. Maybe if they made spin dash faster, but not cross up (eg. Fox Illusion)? Or slower, with higher end lag (eg. Jiggs)? Make neutral interactions a higher commitment

[@Eman02kG]

James Page Spin Charge (Down b) crosses up shield and comps better Spin Dash (Side b) doesn’t cross up shield unless fully charged

[@nathanlevesque7812]

20:57 kicked in the...

[@Thorozak]

I haven’t seen Sonic played in Ultimate much, needless to say I think this character has still got it and will start becoming a top tier threat.

[@dylanr.7760]

Ehhhh I wouldn’t say top tier because sometimes things just don’t function but I say he can be a high tier

[@tsean1106]

Thorozak_ not to be rude but people giving out “I think they might be a top tier threat” like Oprah giving out gifts.

[@gxstly]

Everyone used to say that about Yoshi and Pit/Dark Pit in Smash 4

[@zakkutv1623]

He needs a Buff before becoming top tier

[@Thorozak]

Perhaps I phrased things improperly, I’m more referring to Wrath and those who push his meta will become top tier threats in tournament

[@Strifling]

Lmao “ *I didn’t hit nobody?... that’s crazy* ”

[@gilty8828]

Strife “that b button gettin worn out”

[@sharsasuke01]

Wrath's sonic is nasty but that splatter shot hard counters him.

[@nofatchxplzthx]

nah, you can homing attack out of spindash to counter it if you have fast enough reflexes

[@Will-uj7yu]

@@nofatchxplzthx Nope inkling can just shied it and punish. Happened a lot in the set

[@cag_0k642]

I haven’t seen a sonic in a while, can’t believe I’m saying this but it’s oddly refreshing

[@GabeLev]

Cag Frfx totally agree

[@largenaq2935]

I just versed a good sonic online and I’ve never wanted to die more. This just gives me Vietnam flashbacks.

[@baldr9390]

No thanks.

[@_spektral__251]

God I swear Sonic needs more kill power. I really feel like some of these moves should've killed when they didn't.

[@jijmotorp3079]

I would have prefered tweek vs cosmos...

[@samuelvibritannia4831]

Have they posted the Tweek vs Wrath video? I can't fuckin find it.

[@themange59]

@@samuelvibritannia4831 It was done off stream

[@eldavid9254]

Samuel vi Britannia there’s a video on twitter but it mainly shows wrath’s homies just being loud and obnoxious towards tweek

[@ianngoat]

Wrath improved so big holy big props out like to see another good sonic on the side of ken ( 🇯🇵)

[@69metersbelow25]

atleast he doesnt camp anymore god that was annoying

[@nathanlevesque7812]

Sonic is too repetitive, risk avoidant, and simplistic in his design. I hope the devs transform him from a spinning gnat into an actual character for this game.

[@christianr.5868]

Nathan Levesque eh, depends on how ya play him. But he IS a bait a punish character so being hard to hit is kinda his gameplan

[@xeno4693]

Nathan Levesque i agree. Hopefully in the next smash game he will be redesigned.

[@wka7009]

Correction, WRATH's sonic is campy. Watch a Ken set good sir. Now THAT'S good sonic play

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@wka7009 No one was talking about being campy

[@wka7009]

@@nathanlevesque7812 All I'm saying is that you see a completely different sonic when Ken plays.

[@yodamewtwo3826]

Sonic needs a buff like back trow and special B

[@09JDCTrainMan]

The only buffs he needs are up air and Spin Charge (down B)

[@mazinhassan3072]

09trainfan His up smash and up tilt need buffs. Those moves are actual trash. And if they make up air and down b a little more consistent, Sonic will be way better than he already is

[@iliketrain10]

No

[@GawdTy]

how doesnt sonic get some kind of buff, people fall out of spin charge, up air, up smash, and he has 2 slow af kill moves that are punishable on shield and easily telegraphed, its sad that most characters live to up 100's even if their light because sonic just doesnt have any kill moves

[@TheFantasticWarrior]

Bruh

[@Will-uj7yu]

Sonic doesn't need buffs.

[@GawdTy]

@@Will-uj7yu ya well not now this was a year ago. He got his buffs :p

[@lukekapala1020]

Wrath is a complete Joke, pathetic player giving smash a bad name. Mid set coaching, coaches that heckle the opponent, absolutely unacceptable.

[@lmao2302]

He didn't have any coaches. Only his girlfriend rubbing his arm.

[@eldavid9254]

Agreed

[@JB_CY]

God damn this is amazing 😂😂😂

[@tenacity25]

The color you're looking at actually effects your psychology and your mindset, so the color thing with Cosmos might actually be true.

[@xXSchimpXx]

actually lov to see some sonic! but his throws should be stronger especially F-Throw nerf wasnt necessary and backthrow isnt a thread either

[@marshmellow9281]

Love the commentary in general but they seem a bit biased towards inkling

[@Will-uj7yu]

most are when fighting sonic. Sonic is toxic

[@JBpruitt]

6:55 That backAir should’ve killed. Ion know if they buffed sonic’s BackAir over the 2years but they should bc that actually made me mad that he didn’t die right there.😐

[@Jakems28]

Sonic has to be the most boring one trick character in the entire game. Spin dash/homing attack to ad nauseum is a true combo.

[@darkwalkervisiondominguez1691]

Sonic need more kill moves all professional players know how evade the kill sonics fly kick

[@jasonh837]

no please shut the fuck up, sonic is one of the most annoying /campy characters

[@sototheshredder]

Yes please, I feel like as a Sonic main we need to play twice as hard to compensate for the weak moves. haha

[@supercamperninja9012]

@@jasonh837 he would probably be less campy if he had better kill options...

[@AHGavInDaUSA]

Super Camper Ninja him having an easy neutral game balances out his kill power, and incentives sonic players to actually go in and earn their kill.

[@kevinnguyen8631]

@@AHGavInDaUSA No incentive to go in without kill potential

[@SH-rs3zw]

4:16 inkling grab range lol

[@Will-uj7yu]

lol wtf

[@Nikkerman]

Sonic still good idk what everyone was talking about

[@zakkutv1623]

But he doesn't have many kill options. Very punishable if he misses homing attack. Doesn't help that his tilt attacks are kinda trash and his lightweight kills Sonic early

[@Will-uj7yu]

@@zakkutv1623 Doesn't have kill options? What about backair? Forward smash that kills at 90? I swear these sonic players be spamming b moves then complains because it doesn't kill. Guess what. The move isn't made to kill your opponent so stop mashing and get good.

[@zakkutv1623]

@@Will-uj7yu You didn't read my comment. The word "many" appears. He relies on FSmash and Bair which is okay. If you haven't noticed this comment was a year ago. Sonic was buffed since then. So I'm happy with it.

[@atari9477]

Still waiting on clockworks sonic..

[@cesars.9912]

No offense but clockworks sonic isn't anywhere near wrath or ken 🐖.

[@HolyCrepe]

Yeah.. he goes for waayyy too many dumb stuff and does too many stupid things while he's trying to get out of disadvantage

[@trash_dmleo956]

I would imagine thats because it's online. I know if I am online I go for dumb stuff, but when I am in tournament I don't

[@j.k.a.0842]

@@cesars.9912 I agree

[@froakie1404]

Yo Wrath and KEN are really convincing me that sonic is actually still good.

[@zakkutv1623]

Check out 6WX and Clockwork Video. Sonix and Sonido too. Sonic needs a buff.

[@aintfalco7968]

@@zakkutv1623 this comment aged poorly.

[@zakkutv1623]

@@aintfalco7968 the Sonic needed a buff part?

[@aintfalco7968]

@@zakkutv1623 yeah lol.

[@zakkutv1623]

@@aintfalco7968 he's only good online with wifi. But his UpAir still needs to be fixed. People are just going along the hype train since MKLeo lost to a Sonic. I think Sonic is an A Tier potential character no doubt. But I'd like to see a small buff for sure

[@derekturley7806]

Ken would've had this man for breakfast

[@samuelvibritannia4831]

Where's the Tweek vs Wrath set?

[@Lufuwu]

their set was offstream, so there's no vod

[@toxronin3971]

Sonic might actually be B tier

[@thebaxta]

19:15 hahahahah!!! commentary on point

[@dewdropp8587]

As a Sonic player, Wrath is very skilled but kept his boring playstyle from Smash 4 unlike other Sonics. It's pretty sad to see that now everyone will associate all Sonics with Wrath instead of the hype, explosive playstyles of Sonido and/or KEN

[@notpuffermcsparkleface]

yo wrath really be vibin tho look at that chair posture

[@StephenSiu]

On top of splattershot, the roller also negates a lot of Sonics specials because he's on the ground.

[@akshayy_xd]

Inkling is basically smash ult's sonic

[@SupremeSuperiorStick]

Akshay kinda yeah

[@wrlccywrlfrqurof7384]

KEN is better

[@JBpruitt]

No, the best sonic is 1st Sonix 2scond wrath 3rd ken

[@gene7589]

wrath is so boring I am suprised that cosmos didnot fell asleep that match

[@Limp_Souls]

I just want to say, Sonic is the worst character in the game to watch in tournaments

[@MustacheGod123]

it's the character Sonic that's at fault, its the MU and the player. 1, Ken kept a smash 4 playstyle which doesn't really work in ultimate, 2, sonic struggles against inkling. watch one of Kens matches its pretty fun

[@supasyndrogod1126]

this is Wrath, not KEN

[@user-rr2mw5jj5r]

I love sega

[@biffyguybiffy6292]

Cool gameplay but fuck wrath.

[@Sunny-zf1cm]

It is so weird how wrath doesn’t win when his entire crew isn’t there to harass his opponent and coach him mid match.

[@rizvan1632]

Check out Tweek's twitch. Wrath was wrecking him during a practice session a week or 2 ago.

[@rizvan1632]

On top of that Wrath is a Joker main. He only started using Sonic again recently. Why would randoms be telling him how to DI against Joker? You would have to be pretty dumb to believe that was happening.

[@eldavid9254]

H P still hard to concentrate when your opponents homies are right behind you being loud and obnoxious

[@samuelkernohan267]

Frfr that mobile chao garden would kill my life

[@goryn9660]

Sonic's alongside Little Mac and the Hero the worst designed character in Ultimate.

[@kezare569]

I feel like Down B should've been called Spin Dash. Side B should be replaced by something like a boost

[@csw-t5i]

Ganondorf says hi

[@goryn9660]

@@csw-t5i Ganondorf isn't even in the game lol That's Black Shadow from F Zero cosplaying as Ganondorf.

[@nintendomain4956]

LMAO

[@user-rr2mw5jj5r]

I hate Nintendo !!!!!

[@NipahAllDay]

It’s kinda annoying for them to upload matches where Sonic loses. Like Sonic consistency get decent to good placing, and they couldn’t upload a vid of him winning? Wrath was in top 8, I’m pretty sure he was already on stream way before that.

[@DracoMeteorStrm]

The sets they upload are predetermined, no matter who wins or loses

[@alesogio-4249]

what are you talking about man? they just upload every match that's streamed, it's not like they select matches where sonic wins and decide to not upload them lmao

[@colemado4117]

Bruh moment

[@NipahAllDay]

AlesoGio - Ur2Slow, another Sonic main talks about how streamers doesn’t really put up his matches even though he consistently in top 8s in the tournament he goes to. I mean it depends on the person who host the streams whether it should be on KZbin, but even then, a good chunk of Sonic players like Sonido rarely gets put on KZbin and he’s one of the best Sonic right next to Wrath. Though it’s pretty common to see VODs on KZbin of Sonic losing.

[@NipahAllDay]

MurderOnTheMind obviously they would upload matches where Sonic wins in a higher placement match, but that’s not the point. Also Sonic isn’t low tier.

[@dewdropp8587]

As a Sonic player, Wrath is very skilled but kept his boring playstyle from Smash 4 unlike other Sonics. It's pretty sad to see that now everyone will associate all Sonics with Wrath instead of the hype, explosive playstyles of Sonido and/or KEN.

[@kworca2088]

@@benthelight145 wrath never goes for any ha combos its so dumb

[@gamejitzu]

​@@kworca2088 honestly i'm surprised Wrath even goes for up air, considering it doesn't even connect half the time. You'd think since he's already playing safe he'd go for something like f-air instead

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

Shock KEN didn’t really change imo from 4 to ultimate. His playstyle in both games are matchup dependent. If Sonic is fighting a zoner for example then KEN will camp. If KEN believes that approaching more often is a great option then he’ll approach more. Sonic is made to be played in many ways from camping to a rush down.

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

TheOrcinus ha has no combo potential. ha can put them into a jump/not situation but most characters can easily counter that