TBH7 SSBM - PG | Plup (Fox) Vs. Liquid` Hungrybox (Jigglypuff) Melee Grand Finals

[@empress_josie]

Pause at the beginning of the video. This is the happiest you’re gonna see Plup in this vod.

[@humanoid52]

lol you right

[@nobamboozles]

Marisa Nya thats the happiest anyone in the whole room will be

[@richardtan3108]

Reminds me of Armada vs HBox at EVO 2016

[@Nagstersept109868]

Pause the video at 24:14 and you'll see probably the saddest Hbox you'll ever see. Did you see his reaction turning around to the crowd and see just zero hype at all. The crowd is just getting up and walking away right away but Hbox is used to beating armada in grands to cheers. Sure he won so he should be happy but that only makes that moment sadder because he's clearly not hyped about winning at all and that is the exact opposite of almost every Hbox win ever where he's jumping up and down and screaming and crying. His reaction and the crowd's reaction combine for a sad moment. Compare this to even GTX last week. Watch the post game interview and Hbox looks really emotionally down.

[@Joe42351]

Oh boohoo it's almost like all his popoffs are fake

[@wesley777y]

Props to HBox for winning not only the tournament, but against four top Foxes in 5 sets. And props to Plup for getting so far, even beating Armada. That was insane.

[@SSB_Seal]

We didn't get the hypest ending, but seeing Plup in winner's side of grand finals is something I won't forget for a long time. Good shit to both players.

[@SSB_Seal]

Great top 8 overall.

[@m2kiswashed285]

SSB_Seal Thank you for not whining about Puff.

[@timothyclark58]

SSB_Seal didn't get the hypest ending? I guess you missed the ZERO TO DEATH at the end there.

[@SSB_Seal]

+Timothy Clark I didn't say it was not hype at all, but if you're trying to tell me that this was the hypest possible ending to the tournament you must be joking.

[@timothyclark58]

SSB_Seal man I dunno I like hungrybox, I like it when he wins 2. I suppose a 4 stock could possibly be hyper but I dunno. For me personally, this was up there for sure.

[@crazy4comedy]

That was so sad at the end when Hungrybox turned around and there were no chants, barely any cheers, people were just leaving. Like I get it he's not the people's favorite but have some respect and recognize how good of a player he is.

[@davidperez6040]

MikeMeegs really i hate that shit. I get it plup was gonna win a tourney with all gods ( i was rooting for plup) in it but come on give Hbox some respect a clap at least this is melee we are suppose to be celebrating the win. Fuck is wrong with yall

[@Oromia64]

Recognizing skill does not mean you have to cheer

[@wieran35000vr]

@@saraskyline8331 likability

[@YacubCubby13579ZR]

Wasn’t Hungrybox’s entire top 8 just fighting Fox? He literally played the same MU for 6 sets in a row. By that point I’d feel unstoppable after each one.

[@apocalypseap]

I think it would've been better if Pulp went Sheik. Would've forced Hbox to have to adapt to a new character during the match, and I think he would've had a better chance to win over Hbox. Oh well.

[@misunderstoodfriend1061]

That's a standard hbox top 8.

[@diegosmurillo]

Yeh he always say fox v puff MU sucks. Props for him to never give up and always beat them and deal with it. Even if he knows Smash melee really for him is Smash Fox Puff

[@CoconutJewce]

Plup's record with Sheik vs. Hbox is horrendous. lol Sadly, his Sheik would've gotten washed just as quickly.

[@savanchandul7451]

YacubCubby13579ZR Nothing else is degenerate enough like Fox. But sill Fox players think Jigglypuff is unfair, which should be a slappable offense. Plup would have actually done better with Sheik, everything else died to it today.

[@destroiz]

When Hbox beat Plup, you can see his head shaking in dissapointment, even Hbox wanted Plup to win. But y'know, like a good sportsman, you can't just let your opponent win, because winning is meaningless if it's not earned. Props to Plup for his amazing run.

[@srslyimnotaspy101]

Top 10 Saddest Anime Deaths

[@23mrbee]

Nah, that would be aMSa vs Crush.

[@LunarySSF2]

**But the future refused to change.**

[@LUPICHO6]

GREAT JOB DEAR SON!! WHAT A GREAT TOURNAMENT!!! HUNGRYBOXMAMA

[@gonzo_o_o]

LMAO

[@VisheraGames94]

Man you could really tell on HBox's face that he knew he was crushing everyone's hopes. He looked sorry

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

It was the realization that he became the bad guy at the top. Its sad to see. While I am personally not a big hbox fan I am glad things are different now and he has a fan base. Its been weird to watch the past few years where before ultimate if he was in grands no one was cheering for him in person or even in twitch chat. You might see a couple people but it was rare. However now you watch and you hear people cheering and see lots of people on twitch cheering. Its still a little weird to see but I am happy for the guy.

[@daviejones3288]

I'm rewatching this and focusing on the players' body language. Hbox looks tired as hell mostly, but he lights up when Plup takes stocks. When he takes Plup's stocks, he just kinda blinks and continues playing. When he turns around to look at the crowd, it seems like he's looking for confirmation for... something. Maybe he was just really tired? This set was weird as hell to watch. Awesome that Plup was there, but it seemed like nobody in the room was feeling it.

[@Pixxeltrixx]

Plup played great this tournament, good for him he should be proud. H-Box did such a god tier run though, he is a legend. 9:32 56 seconds

[@erickgarcia-uu6dr]

PixxelTrixx just another day in for... i mean... in melee

[@JohnSmith-ut7pi]

I love ur sm4sh content

[@alexishernandez158]

Aye pix in the comment section! Lol

[@il100374]

Balance has been restored. Gods still reign. The world wasn't ready yet......

[@griffinwulferic2942]

Yeah but will anyone still be watching when the world is #dead

[@CrystalHakurei]

Frost XT >leffen >god Choose one

[@Adrian.Christ]

The ending shot of the players and crowd after the second set ended was actually depressing

[@normandygahn]

Hbox is the ideal smash player. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

[@JesseDumontt]

Poor Hungrybox. He totally wanted Plup to win the tournament. Plup, finally playing his best and beating his demons, and in winners side of grand finals... only to lose to Hungrybox. Hungrybox does this for a living though and he's a competitor as well, so he still had to play to win and wants to win just as badly as Plup. You can tell he's probably thinking, "I wish both of us could win my dude.". Just seeing Plups most genuine smile I've ever seen at literally the very start of the video, to seeing his head shake when he lost and Hungrybox looking at the crowd not hyped at all. The feels. Sad boys. :(

[@GilberttheGlobe]

damn...

[@toyotagaming]

Poor Hbox. Made a great losers run to win the tournament and most of the crowd don't even bother to clap for him.

[@Voltackle86]

Smash community is pathetic.

[@leavethebasket7435]

Superpokemaster if anything it's because everyone was rooting the Plup since he was the underdog

[@leavethebasket7435]

Eye Conqueror no I agree with you. I understand that. It's just the crowd mentality. The excitement isn't there anymore when Hbox wins against an underdog because he's so good.

[@kid2174]

yeah nobody likes him dude , its been like this for years

[@leavethebasket7435]

Kid21 I like him. He creates hype games, is unbelievable in his skill with a subpar character, and is passionate

[@bluegrovyle5480]

I think Hungrybox deserves that #1 ranking this year. He's up in sets vs Armada this year now, and he just made the Evo 2016 run two weekends in a row. That is simply unheard of.

[@TheUnicornslayer]

How so? Armada has won more important tournaments than him this year, and has better records against everyone else. Hbox would need to win summit to even be seriously considered for the #1 spot.

[@kupodrinksmilk]

Armada: G4, Summit Spring, EVO'17 Hbox: SnS3, GT-X, TBH7 Hbox earned the number one seed going forward and Summit 5 will determine who is #1.

[@kkokay4]

No. Armada also won syndicate, dreamhack, SWEET, Hflan, and has had better placings overall. Theres absolutely no debate armada is #1. Anyone saying hbox is even in the debate is sucking his cock

[@kupodrinksmilk]

Lol! Syndicate and Hflan weren't shit. DreamHack Summer only had Leffen there. Hbox's Smash Rivalries, DreamHack Austin, and Shine were actual majors and far more stacked.

[@apocalypseap]

kupodrinksmilk EVO and Summit 4 were also super stacked, so..

[@Pizza_Box]

I think its funny that people pick up fox just to fight puff, and hbox is over here making it look favorable.

[@WowSuchPerfectWorld]

Hunter Jackson As opposed to which character exactly? Puff dittos the new meta?

[@TheAndrewc5120]

IcedTea Shenanigans you say that like puff is the new fox. hbox is the only puff in top 50 (at least). People need to push other characters in the matchup, because hbox KNOWS the damned fox matchup.

[@WowSuchPerfectWorld]

TheAndrewc5120 It doesn't matter how many of them there are, if its one of the gods. Top 8 is the main stage, so its 100% guaranteed to be there. Everyone tried for years with their respective mains. They didn't just lose one game then say "fuck it, let's fox it up"

[@soulcleaner3578]

IcedTea Shenanigans I think its a testament to how good hbox is. The best players are using the best character with the best match up against jigglypuff and still losing.

[@ninezerotwo1778]

Marth wins the Puff matchup; you outrange every one of her moves. Play safe and you win. Hbox is simply far more disciplined than every other player in the Melee scene. He's not a fucking magician; people are just not playing lame enough.

[@bluegrovyle5480]

10:25 Did Hungrybox 4 stock a Fox in under 1 minute? Holy smokes.

[@Alex-ud6zr]

You should look at their corresponding player cams during that thrashing. Hbox looks so disappointed...

[@gilfrill]

After watching the interview and the fact that every time he wins it gets way quiet and his look at the crowd at the very end of winning maybe the most skillful (in terms of competition) tournament ever is pretty feelsbadman. You're a good guy hbox we love you even though you play jigglypuff.

[@CH-lm7xl]

Jon Gil people just wanted to see plup win

[@gilfrill]

Totally get that man. I know I did. But gotta respect the winner too

[@CH-lm7xl]

Jon Gil ya, I know. I think people were upset because they wanted to see plup win not so much hbox hate from nowhere

[@gilfrill]

I think you are right for an overwhelming majority of the crowd. Still sucks that hbox felt that way though.

[@wiiqwertyuiopandkowler4805]

I can see plup using fox the first set, but he should of at least TRIED using sheik.

[@apocalypseap]

Agreed. His Sheik was on fire, and since Hbox was already super warmed up for Fox with all the other top 8 sets being against Fox, Sheik would've probably been the better choice. Maybe next time.

[@luiscervantes6615]

I strongly agree. Plup should've gone sheik on game 4 of the first set just to see what would've happened. I'm not a hater of plups fox but his sheik was playing amazing this tournament

[@TheCKing7]

Plup's Sheik is very grabby, Jiggs can duck under the grab and rest. It would have been a pounding. No pun intended

[@Pray4urSINs]

TheCKing7 yeah we get that but it still woulda made since to atleast find out if that was the outcome.

[@luiscervantes6615]

too late now....hopefully we see even more outstanding results that come from plup (and others) in the future!

[@a_stray_dog]

Kind of a shit situation for HBox to be in. I love the guy, but even I was rooting for Plup to take it. Just really wanted to see a non-god take TBH, you know? HBox played great, and the set was awesome, but he just wasn't going to have the crowd on his side.

[@GosuSalt]

You would have never thought HBox won watching his and the crowd's reaction. So sad. GJ HBox!

[@daviejones3288]

HBox realized after the set tourney was over that nobody wanted him to win, and probably that that's been the case for a while now. What happened to the guy that claimed he was holding Melee itself hostage?

[@RadaSmada]

No, people just wanted the underdog to win. Hbox played better and you cant deny it. People like you make the smash community cancer

[@daviejones3288]

RadaSmada Haha what? I'm not denying he played better, HBox is a god for a reason. Of course people wanted the underdog to win, that's why so many people shit on Armada. I'm trying to figure out the guy's reaction to winning, not the reason he won.

[@RadaSmada]

my bad dude, your comment made you sound like you were shitting on hbox

[@TheZakata12]

He realized he was holding it for a ransom he didn't want.

[@austinstambene3087]

No its people like you who are the smash community's cancer when you jump down someones throat for saying something that you mistakenly thought meant something else. Even if that was his opinion of Hbox who gives a fuck that's his opinion and being a douche about something that's subjective doesn't make the white knight of the melee community. None of your business if he likes Hbox or not

[@jamesmorris4530]

Hungry box is completely defining the meta. As long as hbox is destroying at majors everyone who wants a chance to win MUST have a good fox, and since everyone is gonna play fox against hbox he only has to play one match up all day long, it’s an insane advantage

[@Teknanam]

You'd figure that people should be prepping a bigger variety of anti-Hbox strats since he's just going to get used to fighting Foxs all day.

[@AxelAlexK]

See, I think more people should just do what Hbox does and stick to their mains, unless it's like Peach or something that has a horrible MU against Puff. Hbox has gotten so good at the matchup from the fact that he plays like triple the number of top foxes anyone else does. I feel like melee players focus on MU ratios too much. Hbox clearly doesn't care, he plays his best character no matter what, and he's crushing foxes despite puff losing that MU. Plup should have atleast tried the Sheik in set 2.

[@CheapShotFail]

I may be a fan of Hbox but the sheer level of disrespect at the end when there was almost no audible cheering and everyone was getting up and walking off had me laughing. Congrats to Hbox and to Plup, both had absolutely incredible runs.

[@blackbird2937]

I saw the timer and figured anyone could win. I saw the dislikes and knew immediately hboc won

[@Insertagereviewer]

Blackbird2937 Why were you not watching live?

[@leavethebasket7435]

Plup took sets from m2k, Leffen, and armada . Insane

[@thugjuice69]

James Smith hbox took sets from armada m2k leffen and plup. Insane

[@leavethebasket7435]

thugjuice69 yeah but im celebrating an underdog doing surprising well and finally beating his demon. Hbox did great but it was expected and therefore less exciting.

[@jamiecal11]

James Smith kinda obvious he'd choke vs Hbox though.

[@frxtheraptor8671]

Yeah hbox beating leffen, m2k , armada and Plup in 1 tournament isn't impressive for his standards anymore. Plup beating leffen armada and m2k in 1 tournament is unheard of.

[@thugjuice69]

FXR The Raptor for his standards. Who else was there besides mango. His loser run was as impressive as plup getting to GF winners side.

[@destroyerofblades8923]

Damn, crowd was silent after Hungrybox won. Do they really not like him or what?

[@ardian7239]

Mr. L You kind of answered your own question.

[@destroyerofblades8923]

Eye Conqueror oh I saw it. What did he do to deserve this much hate? Be good at the game?

[@megauberduber]

It makes the game boring and stagnant to see the same two players winning almost every tournament.

[@juniorthemidtiergod2034]

He's a Fake Scumbag Coward

[@Voltackle86]

megauberduber Ok. So if and when Plulp starts winning tournaments the hate cycle will continue? Everyone will start hating on Plup because he's winning too much? That's no excuse even if that's true. Smash community is pathetic lol

[@panoramictv9249]

Shoulda went Sheik atleast once. If you 3-1 Armada w/ any character, you gotta live and die by that character.

[@Galodude]

16:52 You can tell by his face Hungrybox feels like it's a blow out after Game 2 of bracket reset.

[@bayanmehr9663]

wanting plup to beat him fair and square coupled with the fact that the crowd had no reaction to his amazing run, it makes sense that hungrybox didnt pop off this time. very unfortunate for both players to be honest.

[@rakkatytam]

Damn Hbox looking back at the crowd seeming genuinely apologetic

[@apocalypseap]

Of course. Even he was hoping Pulp would pull it off, but he said he wouldn't go easy even on a fellow floridian because it would cheapen the outcome.

[@tailsfox45]

I feel like Hbox wanted plup to beat him as much as anybody else honestly. He was so happy for him when he beat Armada and all...

[@Flip-a-dip-dip]

Juan is an absolute beast. Idc of hes not the underdog hes really fun to watch in my opeenion

[@johnkramer2144]

Westin K. Eeeeh

[@five_6_seven_8]

Westin K. He’s super talented and composed. Definitely deserves his wins.

[@ShadowD3mon25]

John Smith laffen at you and your salt

[@guitarbrother1234]

He's the reason I play Puff. Both in Melee and Smash 4. Unironically.

[@guitarbrother1234]

+John Smith No love for maneuvering below camera and stage to gimp a recovery on FoD? They kept talking about Plup's recovery angles, which are god-like, but the movement required to do what Hbox does is actually more difficult, and imo, more impressive.

[@WolfHunner]

23:52 and the crowd goes mild! (People immediately get up to leave.)

[@fidzschool2941]

I don’t know if it’s just me, but it felt that HBox threw a couple of matches just to keep it interesting. I feel as though HBox could have 6-0’d Plup but didn’t want to do that to his friend. Idk, feels weird man.

[@simanolastname2399]

I highly doubt he threw in the first set. It's not like he knew he would win then

[@23mrbee]

To all those that say Melee is dead because Hbox won this tournament: I'm glad you think that way, please leave this community. I don't want you in this community if you think one person winning kills the game.

[@eeneremadu]

Cya. Melee dead.

[@apocalypseap]

Chukwu No it isn't. 2nd is still really good at a super major. I mean, he beat Armada 3-1, he has to be feeling pretty good about his placing still.

[@ASaveFromDave]

I think its that peolle worry it will be because of hbox, but because he inspires a very bland play style "for the win". No one likes playing a tryhard and even though hbox isnt a tryhard, his playstyle does invoke that kind of notion. Plus its very easy to see that the only way to beat hbox as a non god or close is to hard camp such as chudat. It does show and its worrisome. However, i dont think that anyone will succeed to the level of hbox. To be honest, i dont like hbox,but i do like the player Juan. He's pretty cool. However, he is naive in promoting people to just go for the win as there is much more than going for the win that jigglypuff can do. I think melee is safe. It wont die until the next generation of melee players abandon it.

[@Fish4Man61]

You answered your own argument right in your post ASaveFromDave... How does a non-god do it? With a shit ton of difficulty, often getting bodied for attempting to do so. But that is true for any nonelite going against any of the old gods really.

[@jinsu216]

Melee dies every other week, according to Twitter

[@Bogan360dude]

What a wild set! Melee is so damn entertaining watching these insanely skilled players!

[@christopherbennett9080]

Why didn't Plup use Sheik? Is the Fox/Puff MU easier?

[@apocalypseap]

So.. how many tournament wins does Hbox need over Armada to get to rank 1? 2? maybe 3? If Hbox wins Summit I think Armada is looking really shaky but still #1.

[@five_6_seven_8]

apocalypseap if hbox wins summit he’s number 1. Armada is looking very shaky already

[@apocalypseap]

Oh yeah true, so Summit would probably put him at #1 for the year if Armada isn't 2nd? I still think it'd be really close if Armada got 2nd at Summit and Hbox got 1st.

[@vanishing_girl]

I think just 1, they have the same number of super major wins

[@frxtheraptor8671]

Lol I remember when we were debating on which player should be number 2 for 2017 between mango and hbox

[@ninezerotwo1778]

So far in 2017: Armada has won Genesis 4, EVO'17, and Summit 4. Hbox has won Smash'n'Splash 3, GTX, Dreamhack Austin, and Big House. If we're being completely honest here, Hbox has the edge for the #1 spot. Smash'n'Splash and Genesis 4 were equally as stacked. Plus Big House is THE tournament; it's the single most impressive win of the entire year, hands down. It's way more meaningful than EVO, considering EVO is best of 3 format. Hbox has to royally fuck up at Summit for him to not be ranked #1 for 2017.

[@XxKo0loxX]

Not well-versed in Melee, but is there a reason why Plup doesn't go Samus against HBox? Is Samus-Puff a bad match-up?

[@clueless3120]

Jiggs has a good match up against everyone except fox

[@mamonsin]

Such a one sided community. You will kill melee, not the players.

[@uriahedwards]

mamonsin well said

[@jacquesl9972]

Obviously. People will just stop watching something once they think it's boring. It's pretty obvious Melee's popularity has already plateaued. 30k viewers for apparently the biggest Melee tournament that isn't Genesis or Evo? Lol.

[@saraskyline8331]

Jacques L jinxed it

[@SpoonsOfApe]

Love that the top 3 of melee just keeps winning, consistency in 1-man competitions is really impressive and hype.

[@koopa12345678910]

I hope hungrybox is okay. He seemed down

[@terrbear1048]

He was in the middle of an existential crisis during the tournament as shown in the interview. Plup left him shook in the sets, "I was afraid Plup was gonna kick my ass", he was happy about the victory. But yeah, hope he cheers up. It was worrying to not see popoff-box

[@NinteddyRose]

Plup didnt leave him shook. Hbox has gotten 3-0'd by plup recently and plup was playing out of his mind this tournament. When he said he was afraid of losing, he was talking about before the set started. Hbox destroyed him the whole entire set.

[@OneArmedRetroGamer]

He was all better in Summit.

[@Joshuakim378]

Is Sheik vs Puff a bad matchup for Sheik? M2K and Plup both go Fox vs Puff and it makes me wonder why they are so quick to switch from their mains

[@Teknanam]

Last I checked, Jiggs vs. Sheik was an even-ish match-up. Problem nowadays is some top tier players don't want an even-ish match-up vs. Hbox or even slight favor. They want a a hard counter match-up and Fox has traditionally been seen as a hard counter vs. Jiggs. But there are 2 problems with this kind of thinking. 1. Hbox is a tight player who can consistently make up for the match-up shortcomings with his own skill. 2. Everyone playing Fox vs. Hbox means Hbox only needs to be prepared for one match-up.

[@Antifrost]

I've been wondering this for a while now. I get that it's generally accepted that Fox has a favorable matchup over Puff, but for years now everyone's been counterpicking Fox against Hungrybox almost exclusively if they have a Fox, and he's still placing Top 8 or Top 4, if not winning altogether. I'm not a competitive Melee player so I'm not gonna kid myself into thinking that people should reconsider the matchup, but from a player perspective, HBox has so much experience fighting Fox players that a different character might throw him off his game. I'm reminded of how Wizzy took a set off of him at Smash Rivalries. At the same time, I'm a fan of HBox so I wouldn't be opposed to see him keep winning.

[@apocalypseap]

There are many reasons why Sheik would've been a better pick than Fox here. At least he'll know for next time in similar circumstances.

[@dert159]

56 seconds 4 stocking fox, they call him always he's playing cowardly... yeah right

[@figurativefluff]

Please don't hate on hbox for this. Yes I supported plup, but that doesn't discredit hbox's performance.

[@dark0ssx]

It's frustrating to keep seeing all these people play fox against hbox and get nowhere What other character/strategy do you think they could use?

[@apocalypseap]

In this case, Sheik was clearly the better pick for Pulp. That's not always the case, though.

[@Epictroll48]

Wonder why only these Hbox fans are in comment sections,Why aren't you at these events cheering on you're guy?

[@kkokay4]

because theres very few of them in the grand scheme of things, and theyre a vocal minority that is much louder on the internet than irl. Also many hbox fans have never entered a tournament of never will.

[@SalvLav]

+Morgan Murphy Most people who are melee fans don't enter tournaments bruh.

[@aspenshadow7920]

you are guy

[@JohnSmith-kx3tg]

Most of the crowd especially those at the front at mango fans. Mango does not like hbox and so mango fans do not like him either.

[@jackhankins522]

Because unlike Mang0 fans, we are adults with jobs?

[@xTheRealOGxP]

Wonder what hbox hit % is tho?

[@frxtheraptor8671]

Hbox is looking so solid in the fox matchup in the 2nd half of 2017. He beat all top foxes excluding mang0 in 2 super majors in a row. He beat sfat 3-0 twice (gtx and big house) plup 3 times (losers quaters at gtx and 2 sets in gf) m2k 2 times (losers finals at gtx and losers quaters at big house) armada 3 times (2 sets of gf at gtx and losers semis at big house) and leffen 1 time in losers finals of big house

[@PsychSaenz]

Why are people not maining Jiggs by now? You would think they would at least get it for the ditto.

[@SatisfactoryBro]

Mark Saenz the stall would prolly take away viewers

[@SatisfactoryBro]

Aight guys, don’t be upset. Just be happy that there’s always a next time.

[@sigurdtheblue]

This is still hype. I can't wait to see how Plup answers back.

[@naquan59]

Too all the people who are trying to white knight Hbox he did in fact not too long ago say to all you people hating on me stay mad and i'll keep winning" now i may have worded that wrong but the point is he say he didn't care if people didn't like yet hear it is a grown man crying on camera because he won just like he did at evo.

[@Teknanam]

You do know top players in everything from Football to Soccer to Baseball cry when they win big right? Fuck out of here with that "grown men don't cry" nonsense.

[@apocalypseap]

Looks like this guy's never won anything substantial in his life.

[@moodlampActual]

Wouldn't marth be a good mu against puff?

[@leavethebasket7435]

Hbox is approaching the number 1 spot.

[@CalamityDiamond]

I can really see the whole "nobody wants him to win" HBox thing with the crowd here.

[@Nintendolegopspfan10]

I know everyone wanted plup to win including myself but good shit to hbox. You can't hate on the guy he's such a nice guy and a great player, he doesn't deserve the hate yeah his puff is boring but he puts in the work and sees results. Good stuff to both plup and hbox!

[@peterexperience]

Nintendolegopspfan10 he was aggressive af. How is his puff boring?

[@Z0mbiNat0r]

his puff is not boring at all, in general he makes amazing reads and plays and of course the perfect edgeguards beating so many foxs in this tournament and nobody could stop him he deserved to win and he didnt play lame at all well thats just my opinion

[@tooglianprimus15]

I actually was rooting for Hbox this set

[@Nintendolegopspfan10]

Homs ET Peter didn't really word that right my bad, most people can agree that puff in general is boring to watch compared to other characters and hbox at time does play pretty slow which people hate on him for. My point being that you shouldn't hate on him just for his play style and cuz we wanted the plup upset, I love hbox!

[@MrGameaAddict]

No, HBox has recently been more precise with his punish game. You can argue that like 2 years ago but not now. He is no longer boring to watch.

[@jaredconway3142]

this comment section is not part of the Plup club ;-;

[@Sauceman10_]

Now it is

[@4stringedninja]

Hbox was insane as always, but really good shit to Plup aswell, played his best tournament so far in his career, if he keeps on like this he'll be no.1 sooner or later, but for now the old guard still clutches on to the throne (literally)

[@entitiessoul]

Didn't plup win hbox with sheik? Why the fuck use the fox then?

[@ste_e_p]

He did a couple of times last year, but then he felt like it stopped working and went fox. He's taken a few wins over Hbox this year with fox, including 1st place at Dreamhack Atlanta where Hbox, M2K, Axe, Chudat were all in attendance.

[@abelign1991]

Why do people hate Hungrybox so much? Seems like literally every matchup he's in the crowd is rooting for the other player. The dude didn't succumb to using Fox, aka the best character in the game, like every other sellout. So why hate on the guy?

[@SatisfactoryBro]

abelign Because Jigga is kinda boring to watch to most people. While Fox has many playstyles that show and push the boundaries of the game, making it seem like he’s more than just a simple character. Sadly, whenever you play against Jigga, you will most likely have to play in one way. Since most top Fox players most likely have to play against Hbox’s puff, they’re obligated to stick to that playstyle. (1/2)

[@SatisfactoryBro]

abelign There is a lot of ways to play Fox, and it can’t be shown in this matchup. Now if it were any other character vs. Fox. Who knows what type of playstyle would arise from the players. Hell, even a Fox ditto would probably be stylish if the players decide to do it. However with Jigga, majority of her playstyle is up-throw rest, back throw to bair, and bair descending ladder. Basically, what I’m saying is that no one actually hates HBox, just Jigga’s playstyle due to it being somewhat too simple. (2/2)

[@Teknanam]

The way you are simplifying the match-up can easily be applied to Fox. Majority of Fox's playstyle is Up-throw U-air, Shine-spikes, and overpowering characters with aerial to shine pressure. I lost my love for seeing Foxs in Melee years ago and seeing so many players countering Hbox with Fox and losing just leads me to ask why don't they try a different anti-Hbox strat so that Hbox needs to adapt to more than one match-up.

[@SatisfactoryBro]

metaXzero Prolly because Fox is Jigg’s worst matchup. Marth/Falco is just combofood for Jiggs. And there isn’t a lot of Sheiks since M2K and Plup kinds just forgot about theirs.

[@Teknanam]

I know Fox-Jiggs is a bad match-up, but at this level of play, character match-up ratios don't matter as much compared to dealing with the player. And when everybody is playing Fox vs. Hbox, you're ensuring that he only needs to be warmed up for one match-up for several sets with only minor adjustments for individual players during neutral. Falco's no more combofood than Fox (though his recovery is alot worse admittedly) and I know for a fact that Marth has always been considered as having the advantage over Jiggs.

[@Kahiyao]

Plup moved so well this match. If he didn't SD he would have won a game and closed the gap. Damn great job to both players. Grats HBox

[@juanoshigeru]

a melee god won a tournament? stop the press. This has been melee for the last 10 years

[@dreadfury2485]

You take pride in your game's consistency. Now swallow that pride when HBox outplayed Plup in Puff's absolute worst matchup for two sets and won.

[@jamiecal11]

unfortunately, everyone picking fox really highlights the imbalance in this game. sure, there's other characters that can do it, but when you stop and think about the end lag on Marth/Falcon/Sheik's up B, which basically a free rest, it's like, why yould you bother?

[@SatisfactoryBro]

JebaJebaJemeh People now are most likely training their Fox to beat Hungrybox tbh. You think Armada was gonna stand for that bad matchup of Peach vs Jiggs anymore?

[@TheMrFrontera]

lol nobody cheering for Hbox the whole set. Even after he won, there was like 2 people clapping. Most people just kinda stood up and started leaving like it was the end of a bad movie

[@Reminiscable]

16:43 The footsies. The reactions. So hard to follow.

[@ethanbradberry5050]

23:56 Kinda makes me feel bad for the guy crowd just sort of bummed out he won and he cant even celebrate lol

[@MATTierial]

Say what you will about Juan, but That HBOX losers run was absolutely incredible. In a legendary tournament where PLUP beats 3 other gods... HBOX was STILL able to make it through and win a 2nd Major in a row. PLUP is definitely over Leffen now, but HBOX may very well steal 1st from Armada. Who knows what is going to happen next time?!

[@dark0ssx]

I wish they would try a different character against Hbox Puff

[@nychus37]

HBox turning around and seeing everyone immediately leave the arena is so depressing

[@gangstaclown6938]

Damn that was the saddest ending I’ve ever seen hbox turns around sad as fuck

[@staxx267]

beating a close friend that played so well really sux is what I see from hungrybox winning*

[@MrKynzer]

Hbox played fucking out of his mind, that switch that plup did going for more reads went well but I think if he did this in the beggining things would be different

[@WafflesOWNz]

Low key wanted to see puff vs. luigi

[@tonyroot3047]

Look at Hungrybox at the end of it all.. It is so sad. He just beat every other god and god slayer (except PPMD), and he is kinda depressed because he realizes the crowd was not routing for him, nobody wanted him to win. (nothing against him, people just want variety). It is just so depressing :'(

[@josephwilliams5292]

The melee community would be dead if HBox had let him win. If people want the gods to fall, they have to force them to.

[@Fish4Man61]

Yeah, a bunch of impatient little twats. Respect should be earned, not given freely.

[@IsaacPoasa-Sapptac]

Can't wait for the mango recap vid.

[@julioarcaiko]

I can see why Hungrybox was frustrated after this grand finals. He won from LOSERS with a character that loses the match up against Fox and still people hate him. That's ridiculous, if you had real love for a SPORT you would understand how difficult that is and actually respect him and give him due credit. Hypocritical scene! BS!

[@plasticbudgie]

YEY!! well played Hbox, well deserved the fact that my hands and stamina would have faded after 40 minutes of competitive melee non stop, Hbox just went through and through over an hour. Hbox 101% deserved this win.

[@ThePiddlePopper]

what I don't understand is how people can say hbox's puff is boring. seriously I cant see it. all I can see is its precision and its mindgames. the combos into rest. knowing where your opponent will be before they do. have we all just gotten so used to seeing it that we call it boring? is it because puff is slow? idk. id really like some1 to explain why they think hbox's puff its boring because I get really antsy watching it

[@Teknanam]

Hbox being boring is a meme born from 1. That time long ago when Hbox tried to be excessively campy to fight off Foxs. 2. Fatigue from seeing Hbox win so much. Some people are just heavily biased against Hbox and blame him for all the Fox-Puff match-ups. Though for this tournament, it was less about Hbox winning again and more about Plup fizzling out. Like Plup 3-1'd Armada and stuck to winners, yet got demolished by Hbox.

[@apocalypseap]

Stupid people (most people) aren't intelligent enough to see more than a little of the nuance in neutral play. Boring people think it's boring because they can't see past the surface.

[@mkz6258]

Why did plup go fox after hbox beat M2K, Armada and Leffen in a row.

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Because for some reason everyone refuses to us anyone but fox against hbox

[@SSB_Seal]

It's a way better matchup than sheik vs puff. That being said, its hard to tell which character would have been the right choice. The best players have a LOT more things to consider that none of us would ever think of.

[@five_6_seven_8]

SSB_Seal it’s important to recognize that if plup had played slightly better, he would’ve won with fox. He missed two ledgedashes, and also missed his DI a few times on hbox’s upthrow set up.

[@mkz6258]

He had two sets to switch to sheik, but didnt

[@SalvLav]

+Saberzerq X He would have won? wat.

[@ShionYTS]

If only Leffen could've won against Hbox in losers. Rip

[@Fish4Man61]

Or Armada beating Plup far earlier. It would have opened the doorway to some interesting matchups that were locked out at that point.

[@MasterPpv]

He got beaten to a Plup

[@somekindofnice3871]

Poor hbox. I wish the community supported him. He needs a break

[@tonii-chan]

Good games to both players. But mentally, plup was struggling, just look at him, he looks tired. He didn’t take breaths in between matches either.

[@danlarin742]

So does this mean Hbox can contend for being the #1 player of 2017?? And duh Plup is #5

[@humanoid52]

Plup should have tried something else like luigi, samus vs puff

[@hotdogger2163]

oh god those are horrible matchups. his falco would do better than those

[@ninezerotwo1778]

Puff is only disadvantaged against a few characters in the game; none of which are those two you mentioned. You have Marth, fox, falco, falcon, and sheik. Only those 5 beat her.

[@Voltackle86]

Watch when Plup starts winning a lot everyone will want him to lose too -.-

[@juniorthemidtiergod2034]

Marisa Nya you're wrong on M2K He may do some cheese & grime but he's one of the greats most want him winning majors

[@diegosmurillo]

Marisa Nya Yeh I disagree with m2k. He is always a favorite, and his matchups against leffen or mango are hypes af.

[@apocalypseap]

Diego Salazar Well, not ALWAYS a favorite.. his set vs Shroomed was painful to watch.

[@blablabla39876]

GunGaleSinon Nah fam, plup is not borring to watch as hbox does. Plup has creative combos but hbox has way many more set ups, cuz puff sucks for stylish combos

[@blablabla39876]

GunGaleSinon I guess popularity resides in crative combos

[@kevintejada3138]

Let's face the facts. This game is meant to be entertainment for people to watch. We want to watch a good match and not some campy jigglypuff that spams back air and rest. Like I know it's a viable strategy as it works. But it's boring as fuck to watch, you have to realize that if people didn't watch, this game wouldn't be as popular as it is now. These people wouldn't be able to make as much money off this as they have. So if you were to ask me if hbox deserved this win, then yeah he did, he played the game for what it is. The difference is that no one is going to cheer or like watching his matches. So when people like zero complain on twitter that no one cheered, it just confuses me.

[@Teknanam]

It was less about Hbox winning and more about Plup fizzling out to him. Hbox didn't even need to go clutchbox vs. him. It was just a blowout.

[@apocalypseap]

Kevin Tejada He didn't camp? No, he didn't. He just outplayed Pulp's cold Fox. Even Hbox wanted Pulp to win.

[@MatterStorm1]

16:12 Scar tried to get the crowd hype for loser's HBox... He tried...

[@MrGameaAddict]

The homie! This ain't right.. fuck.

[@ladian5475]

HBox just beat 2 of the best (the 2 best?) foxes, fox should not have been the automatic counterpick for Plup.

[@simanolastname2399]

I have never felt so bad for both players.

[@BrickNGames]

poor plup :( looked really upset

[@penguindrummer252]

23:45

[@penguindrummer252]

Beautiful.

[@tashi321]

plups recovery game was sooooo on point