Victory Motorcycle Dyno Comparison Old vs New Software Calibration

[@poppysadventures2020]

Nice editors. Keep up that great informational Vic vids.

[@hammeredsteelperformancehs1120]

Got to keep them on the payroll.

[@pauldavis8421]

Cheers Cory ! informative as ever !

[@hammeredsteelperformancehs1120]

Thanks Paul

[@michaelmorgan2781]

T shirt in January? I’m dyin’ up here in the frozen tundra of NC. This is very interesting. I have heard/read the same is true for different versions of Dynojet’s WinPep software. T or F? While this is a great PSA at face value, I see it as a potential warning for unscrupulous activity. There are some noisy tuners on the internet that claim mucho gains by having them tune an engine versus obtaining a “canned map” (their terminology) that has been “auto tuned” (manufacturers terminology yet used liberally or without complete disclosure by the aforementioned noisy tuners). What I see as incomplete disclosure is a statement about the limitations of auto tune systems that use narrow band O2 sensors and not mentioning the fact that most auto tune systems on the market today can also obtain and use data from wide band O2 systems. Perhaps an invalid assumption; however, I would say that if you’re inclined enough to install one of these systems on your motorcycle, you would be informed enough to know about the inability of these systems to optimize spark tables. It gets back to the issue of trust and confidence in the person who developed the “canned” map. So, when the unwitting customer reads what they read in the internet, they may feel compelled to take their motorcycle to the aforementioned tuner to get that “perfect” tune. Given the differences in software that this video demonstrates, could a tuner show their customer a “before” result using the newer software and overlaying an “after” result using the older software. By doing only that, a customer would then believe that the tuner just got them 5-7 numbers. Trust. Trust. Trust. FWIW, I’d consider it a privilege to put my bike on your rollers!

[@hammeredsteelperformancehs1120]

Lots to discuss there. First, my dyno is the only brand that one can easy switch calibrations. So yes if I was less moral I or others with the Dyno-might could trick before and after results. I can only speak for myself, I do not do this motorcycle stuff for a living, nor do I need the money. For me it is about discovery of and learning what works and doesn't so there is no driver for being dishonest. In fact, on my own I have tightened up my calibration which makes my results lower than a few years ago. Who would do that when numbers sell? Next for the most common dyno, dynojet the software and hardware upgrade to win8 is pricey if one had the older dyno. People are normally driven to up grade due to hardware failure. All new Dynojet dyno have the newest software/hardware since 2012 ish. Changing between hardware/software is not feasible. Now there are a couple ways to skew results. The easiest is doing a single base line pull. When I do a baseline, it takes 3-4 wot pulls to get engine and oil temps up. On a 115hp bike the first warm pull might only produce 105-108 hp. One pull two 110 and then the third pull 115 hp. Easy to see that doing a baseline single pull would show low numbers. Now said dyno tuner pushes a few "I'm tuning buttons" and does a couple more pulls, and wow your now ar 115 hp. Tire pressure can net a couple of hp too. Lastly, auto tuning. If the owner has some game or is willing to learn, auto is a solid option, but to produce great results it takes work, and there is a safety concern when one looks at tuning the up VE table on the street. What we know is power is in ignition timing not afr. Tuners will argue that there is no way to nail timing with out doing a ignition hook test on a dyno. Fun fact the biggest factor in timing requirements is cylinder head combination chamber design, piston top and pump gas. As ecm become more advanced this makes it harder for the home tuner or even most tuners to effectively tune modern cars and motorcycles. Motorcycle tuners as dropping like flies, they just do not have the knowledge or skills to keep up with the times. throttle by wire, traction control and cyclinder deactivation just to name a few challenges that tuners face. Well beyond VE, afr and timing. Starting to see larger companies consolidating talent and resources for tuning purposes.

[@michaelmorgan2781]

@@hammeredsteelperformancehs1120 “What we don’t understand, we fear. What we fear, we judge as evil. What we judge as evil, we attempt to control. And what we cannot control…we attack.” (Author Unknown) As always, I’d take your information and opinions (trust/confidence) over anyone else’s. Thanks for helping demystify some things we see in the tuning industry. How ‘bout a future episode on how you optimize spark on the dyno? You could probably go turn those editors into camera crew - just get them some mini ear muffs!

[@tomedwards159]

So why the new software and why the big difference between the two?

[@coryackley944]

Well, I do not know all of the details. However with Dynojet made the first dyno and supporting software, manufacturers were taking back because numbers were much lower that flywheel. So the software was adjusted to "display" more hp. Over the years, other dyno manufacturers started making dynos as well. Those use the more traditional software and usually showed less hp. I think that Dynojet, just eased back to more traditional software calibration. Again not hard facts stated here, but kinda close.