How HBO Ruined What Should Have Been The Next Red Wedding...

[@Khaoki]

It was never a second Red Wedding. What made that shocking was that we knew those characters intimately and it was at the height of Robb's success only for him to be betrayed in a moment of celebration and vulnerability by supposed allies. Blood and Cheese was shocking for no other reason than the sheer brutality and cruelty of it

[@ashload3269]

Yeah, as they have been building it up since the last season finale.

[@ssjalpha6593]

I can tell you haven't actually read the book because you know very few characters "intimately". It's literally a history book. Did you know George Washington intimately after a semester of sophomore US history in high school?

[@benjaminfenasse1963]

@@ssjalpha6593 Unfortunately for you history books (real ones, not those pretending to be so) are supposed to be objective. There's exactly Zero amount of objectivity in any of the stories written by Martin, and that's a fact for the Point of view of any character of the books

[@The-Doctor6969]

You don't think Fire & Blood is a commentary on real world history books?​@@benjaminfenasse1963

[@leventenagy1488]

@@ssjalpha6593 They are talking about Ice and Fire not Fire and blood, I can see you haven't read a Song of Ice and Fire since mentioning Robb didn't give it away that they weren't meaning Fire and Blood when they talked about intimately knowing the characters.

[@captainziggy82]

I think the setup and surrounding events were very odd, I get not wanting to cutoff a child’s head on tv, that didn’t bother me, but did we need an Alicent and Cole sex scene??? Let’s cut Maelor for time and never mention Daeron, but we can add another relationship to ruin Alicents reputation right? Lol

[@cherylbaxter8986]

Little maelor is in the show as in the opening theme for season 1 episode's 9 an 10 the blood line shows Alicents children an then Aegon an Helaennas children you can see the 2 a a baby

[@quinnjackson731]

What made it a little more odd is how Halaena was able to just grab the other kid and casually walk out of there while they killed her son.

[@mattcollins3591]

@@quinnjackson731 do you not know how people with autism react to stressful situations?

[@quinnjackson731]

@mattcollins3591 No I don't, but I'm talking about how the 2 dudes didn't notice her walking out

[@justyouraverageshaun89]

There's nothing to say her and Cole have any sort of sexual relationship in fire and blood

[@soundshape6496]

All I heard all off season was Blood & Cheese, Blood & Cheese. Why were they made to look like rumbling, bumbling, stumbling fools?

[@debater452]

Because they are just some random thugs they aren't supposed to be professionals

[@Hear.myvoice]

​@@debater452They weren't even scary... Plus they completely butchered the scene.

[@channelZER01]

​@@Hear.myvoicethey aren't really suppose to be

[@Hear.myvoice]

@@channelZER01 💀

[@benjyyx]

@@Hear.myvoice He is right, you are wrong 💀

[@daneglesak8162]

When they showed north of the wall, all I could think is “why at full staff can they not cut the trees down farther out?”

[@RicePho]

From the top point of view it looks little but if you were stanind on the ground you would realize it's far away from the wall, that and it isn't once space they have to cut down but miles in a horizontal line.

[@Geitepielekupke]

Read the books

[@pyramidion5911]

Why would they?

[@daneglesak8162]

@@pyramidion5911 kinda part of their job

[@wonderer78]

Are y’all fing fr? 😑

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

I wish they kept it closer to the book, but maybe it was too much. Woooo long content!!!!

[@Rifi77]

Helaena having to choose between Jaehaerys and Maelor was definitely something that should've been kept in

[@billjoe8734]

They changed it because the show is Black propaganda, and they can’t make Daemon and Rhaenyra out as the villains they are

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

@@billjoe8734 I really really hope that's not the reason.

[@billjoe8734]

@@aegorbittersteel2154 it obvious. They aged down Alicent so she looks worse by marrying Viserys, they made the one true king a cartoonishly evil man, they made Aemond a pussy, need I go on?

[@MrVictor1227]

People are focusing on the kid getting killed. That is not the problem with that scene. The problem is a mother having no reaction to her son dying. Where is the screaming and cry for help?

[@Agdasso.]

No no, let's add sex to the scene. And let's get as far away from the original as possible.

[@topknot01]

What they did to that poor dog was more F*cked up than anything they did in the book.

[@renshii422]

It really wasn't THAT far from the book.

[@gitusumbia]

The book was not 1st hand. It's been stated it was wrong on many details

[@JTrys]

that scene between Alicent and Cole ruined it for me. OG Game of Thrones would've cut to black on Helena's horrified face and left the sound of the saw going for us to sit with. Then opened the next episode with Helena taking her girl and walking through the castle to get to Alicent's room.

[@abadboi_23]

​@@gitusumbia yep, what was in the 'book' is a scholar pieceing together Targaryen history from unreliable sources written by biased accounts of a fool and a septon.

[@AllGodsDue]

I'm sorry, but you guys are absolutely off base bringing up the Red Wedding. I'm not saying the show version wasn't disappointing, but you're talking it up to complete rage bait by saying it should have been Red Wedding material. The Red Wedding had numerous reasons for being far more impactful and important. It was multiple characters that were extremely developed, amongst a family that up to that point felt basically like the main good guy protagonists of the world. We never saw it coming, it was heart wrenching just watching the entire starks main force get ripped out of the story. This was literally one child that the audience had basically zero emotionally attachment for outside one cute scene at the beginning of the episode and even his mother is very much a side character whose only importance to the plot is occasional eerie lines. Saying this "should have been the next red wedding" is flat out untruthful and just bait click material. They are not even comparable, the lannister boys being slaughtered by the angry northmen is far more comparable.

[@alexiavya722]

This!! Getting tired of seeing people spread rage bait when the show is doing so well! I can appreciate trying to generate some kind of drama with the show, but some of us just want to enjoy the show

[@jimmyjamaculusjam5087]

There is NO protagonist in got

[@warpedwhimsical]

@@jimmyjamaculusjam5087 That’s technically true but in practice Eddard Stark is the protagonist of GoT. 6 of the 8 POV characters in the book are him and his family, and he has the most chapters of any of them at 15. This also makes the Starks feel like the “main protagonist family” moving forward into the later books. People also think Bran will be the main series protagonist. The first chapter is his POV and the last chapter certainly will be as well, and we know he will High King of Westeros when all is said and done because D&D revealed that came straight from George

[@OriginalJamieAnne]

Honestly, I don't think they're "rage baiting" I think you're just getting a little too passionate 😅 And you're contributing to their channel growth by commenting on their video

[@roh4n]

@@OriginalJamieAnneyes. you’re right. but i mean, all the other characters and fully developed like helaena, aegon, alicent, rhaenyra. had they adapted the book version, the impact on the characters would be shown too which would hit us like a train.

[@justfun4kirsten]

Spoilers if didn’t see the episode or read book….Ok I get that people were glad that they didn’t show a child’s head chopped off. But in the book it was cut clean off. In the show hearing the sounds of the boy screaming, getting killed and then sawing off his head was horrible. People say HBO did well steer away from the book but have we forgotten how Princess Shireen died? Burned to death. Sansa’s raping. This version of Blood and Cheese were dumbed down compared to the book - they were cold and heartless. Not on ounce of shaking or questioning from them two. Please don’t judge me on this but there are something that need to be in the series to understand the true Dance of the Dragons. I mean seriously the Queen and Cristan having sex are you kidding me!!! Let’s throw something that doesn’t have anything to do with anything. Sorry just venting. Readers of the book prepare yourself for a season of disappointment and frustration.

[@Lord_Of_Shorvia]

I would argue that the sex scene between Alicent and Cristan made scene, as perhaps if he wasn't busy fucking the Queen's mother - then perhaps he could have stopped them.

[@Phantomblue468]

I won’t lie I was very disappointed last night. I think Helaena being a dreamer is fine but she should still be a character and not just be a foreshadowing npc. She looked like she barely cared a huge letdown for me. This was better executed in the books Maelor not being there also ruins things.

[@debater452]

Helena acting like she did makea, sence in the context of the scene and with how she has been characterized. She knew if she caused a scene she and her daughter would have probably died as well. Heleana is also implied to be neurodivergent and as someone who also is neurodivergent her reaction's are pretty realistic and in character

[@Phantomblue468]

@@debater452 I understand what you’re saying but I’d rather have a great scene than a mediocre at best one. The books version of events are way better. It shows character and just how dark the things to come will be. I understand that she might be neurodivergent I just think it would have been better if they kept close to the source material. We saw what happened to Game of Thrones we don’t want this to be the same way.

[@debater452]

@@Phantomblue468 The Book version might have honestly been too dark for TV. Especially, since very young child actors had to be involved and if they did a complete accurate version of the scene that could have caused some serious damage to them. The show version is still very dark it's just more suddle than the book version that might have been a bit to over the top even for ASOIAF

[@Phantomblue468]

@@debater452 they could have put puppets in there place and just had them act scared and then replace them. Puppets with a bit of cgi could work as well. The young actors don’t even need to be in the room when the more violent and heinous dialogue take place.

[@Rifi77]

@@debater452 I don't care about not seeing baby Jaehaerys' death either. Hearing just the sawing is just as gruesome allows your imagination to fill in the rest. However, what I think the scene lacked was emotion and a clear choice for Helaena to make

[@simonbouhadana6333]

Off topic I know but I have suspicion that Daeron doesn’t exist. Alicent never mentions him on the show and he hasn’t appeared yet. Blood and Cheese lacked impact since we didn’t see the kids for what 5 minutes. The showrunners are obviously pushing Rhaenyra’s claim because Aegon II faction is underdeveloped. After Visery’s death this feels like it’s Rhaenyra’s show.

[@javiervinas77]

Yea girl boss power or whatever. I mean I liked better in the books there wasn’t as much favoritism and both factions were a bit more equal. Btw, I like the blacks better.

[@darriuscole8544]

I never thought about it, but it does feel like it's Rhaenyra's show.

[@retronerds6884]

That and daeron is the most likable green as well

[@senister14]

Yep, plus why push blood and cheese to only 10 min? That's like having the red wedding done off screen and flash forward. So much wasted potential.

[@debater452]

​@@senister14Blood and Cheese is no red wedding tho

[@onurreyiz35yt]

While I agree that they ruined the scene, I definitely don't think B&C was supposed to be the nex red wedding. To get a scene like red wedding, you need your viewers or readers to be invested in the murdered characters' fates. Who really cares about Aegon's son with almost zero screentime. Most viewers probably didn't even remember he had a son. So even if the scene was adapted perfectly, it couldn't even be close to red wedding.

[@happilyevernever4289]

We're supposed to care for Helaena who goes crazy suicidal after that. And Jahaera is traumatized. And Maelor motherless basically. The aftermath is what's truly heartbreaking because I think the whole fandom has the same opinion of them being complete innocents on the green side.

[@kinesiskebarn9111]

That is 100% an issue on the writing of season 1. They barely mention that Aegon and Helaena are even married. Additionally, the twins are aged down so they barely get any .lines or screentime at all. If they had given more time to establish the characteres in season 1 then maybe B&C would have had more impact, even with the changes to the source material

[@4549uef]

It's actually way worse than the red wedding because it involved innocent little kids, it gave me a much worse feeling, the show downplayed it for the sake of the Black propaganda why should we not care about Aegon's children? If they were Rhaenyra's we would have seen an extra emotional and dramatic scene, and she wouldn't be nonchalant about what happened like Helaena and Alicent (the poor greens, they deserved better than these writers)

[@robertsmiley2207]

Blood 🩸 and Cheese 🧀 was lack luster on the show I said earlier since it's only 8 episodes I expected fire 🔥 and after the red wedding in GOT I'm pretty sure we can handle it

[@mattcollins3591]

Jesus Christ some of these comments Kids weren’t raped and murdered during the red wedding

[@Talleyhoooo]

I swear most of the people complaining about Blood and Cheese never read the books, and just endlessly watched 7 minute lore videos talking about the same even over and over. If you can’t name the child who was killed off the top mind, then your complaints about the show are as shallow as your obsession with empty spectacle.

[@crd88918]

everyone wondering why they added the sex to the scene, i’m sure it will factor into criston and alicent’s guilt and response moving forward

[@michelleanderson5244]

I think a better comparison would be, Blood and Cheese is like the massacre of all of Robert Baratheon's bastards--especially baby Barra getting stabbed by Janos Slynt while her mother screams. If anything needs to hit like the Red Wedding, it's the Storming of the Dragonpit.

[@cvox607]

This was supposed to be hotd red wedding , a scene that will be talked about for years Instead we got the most underwhelming scene ever that will be forgotten in 2 weeks because the writers are too soft to depict favorite characters doing evil things and too egotistical to follow grrm vision and they're using the "books are biased" to excuse their bullshit

[@seansmith9941]

its not an excuse its simply taking a different route to prove that fire and blood was written by a biased person. they are not soft depicting characters doing evil things wtf. they show daemon smash his wife's head with a rock what he did as commander of the city watch. he chokes his wife like i said it isn't an excuse...its a fact that the books are meant to be biased giving accounts that are clearly biased. just because your weird ass doesn't get to see a child get his head cut off doesn't mean its the end of the world so chill the f out.

[@seansmith9941]

there is also the fact that the books paints blood and cheese like vicious monsters who are fine with killing babies and children without a second thought. especially when cheese says" Your mama wants you dead" making it worse. the show shows that these guys specifically cheese aren't just monsters and cheese himself seems to actually hesitate with killing a child. its showing that these two have some what morals even though they still do it.

[@mattcollins3591]

Underwhelming? The sounds of that kid getting decapitated were horrific. Even in thrones you didn’t outright see a child get brutally murdered. (Even shireens death was off screen) You can’t show a 5 year old getting decapitated.

[@cvox607]

@@seansmith9941 and I hate this constant need to depict everyone as morally grey who are just forced to do bad things When we fully know that horrible people do exist and they do worse than that with no remorse

[@cvox607]

@@mattcollins3591 we saw a little girl get burned alive lol, this was like the tamest shit ever If the red wedding was made by those people, the door would be closed and we would only be hearing screams and cries

[@maxharrison8618]

If only lucaerys had given Aemond his eye

[@Hear.myvoice]

If only Aegon doesn't make the kids bully him

[@mariadimitroulia645]

Yep, they ruined Blood&Cheese all right! The book’s version was perfection. The way they filmed it, people forgot about Helaena’s tragedy and were laughing with the sex scene at the end. The show runner is a buffoon.🤦🏻‍♀️

[@l.b.2592]

The book and this summation from the book is waaay more enthralling than the tv show.

[@cincameron]

I understand why they changed the murder, but the fact the show has the 2 intruders act like uncoordinated idiots, no guards patrolling the keep, or no Alicent being captured but instead being plowed while this is going down is kind of ridiculous. The biggest twist from this scene is also removed, as Blood doesn't mutter to the one chosen by Helaena that "Your mother wants you dead" before killing the other one. Honestly, the scene itself is okay, but it's a huge downgrade from the original scene as the stakes are lessened and Alicent's character loses respect from the viewers because she's too busy being a hypocrite instead of being captured and forced to witness the murder. Some people wonder why the two let Helaena walk off as they are committing the murder, but it was already made clear. They wanted to kill the son and they would let her go. There would be too much risk if they tried to stop her anyways since she could scream, or someone could cross paths with them as they chased her.

[@guwopzy]

Obviously they act uncoordinated it’s their first job together, Blood doesn’t even know what he’s doing. The inside lack of security can be explained due to fear of a night time attack so the security is bolstered outside, a perfect time and opportunity to send your Kingsguard ( Cole ) To due their jobs and protect the royal family, but what will happen when hes too busy shagging queen mother? a perfect recipe for chaos, it was perfect. the night storm had me on the edge of my seat, my only problem was the torch… did it go out or spread???

[@williamwarg6882]

It's not even close to another Red Wedding. Plus the scene is almost the same as in the book. In short, this video is 23 minutes of wasted time.

[@MultiTexMex]

They couldn’t make it like the books cause everyone’s already decided the Blacks are the good guys and God forbid they do anything henious cause Rheneara’s basically girl Jesus. It’s rather frustrating because the book’s so much more nuanced and depicts both sides as much more complex than simple black and white but differing shades of grey.

[@thenickfoxx]

Book loyalists are something else man. The red wedding never had child murder on screen. Though I have a couple nit picks from Blood and Cheese, people are being completely unreasonable. Not a single book to screen adaptation in the history of mankind has been 100% true to the book counterpart. Even more so in thjs case since Fire and Blood is the accounts of some Maesters and Mushroom.

[@AuroraBoost]

Exactly. These book loyalists literally see fault in everything despite the runners already saying yhe book is inaccurate to what really happened. They talk about bias so much that they dont even realise they're the biased ones

[@androkguz]

I honestly don't get what they think is lost. I didn't read the books, but I just read the scene thanks to this video. It's much more cartoonish in the books. In the series, it feels much more real. More chaotic. And all in all, neither is *that* interesting a scene. The interesting thing is the consequences and the impact for the other characters. And in that, the book *tells* us that Haelena went mad, Aegon got angry... but the tv show *showed* us all that instead of telling us. That should be considered better writing in general

[@WhiteBoyTariq]

​​@@AuroraBoostyou show fans need to stop repeating this nonsense. The scene was mid, Helena has 1 of her children die and dosent even try to save him, Showrunners add a useless sex scene as if they were Mushroom The books being biased accounts dosent matter because the show and books are completely diffrent timelines anyway.

[@AuroraBoost]

@@WhiteBoyTariq Exactly, the books dont matter because the show is showing exactly what happened. Keep your maester book fanfiction to yourself please. Thank you.

[@WhiteBoyTariq]

@@AuroraBoost 1. Fire&Blood's account of the Dance of the Dragons is given from 3 diffrent persepectives not just Maester Gyldayn 2. The Book and the Show are practiaclly two diffrent universies. This is evidenced by the skin color of the Velaryons, the non-existince of Maegor and more.

[@Dennisaerob-q5x]

They did a good job making everyone blaming Alicent and Cole for B&C 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@danzanity]

What bothers me are people who are more offended over a dog that was kicked compared to a boy that was killed. 🙃

[@maliceinwonderland00]

They never ruined it. I'll explain the MANY details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true. She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book. You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all. This was exactly how it should have been. Just try to understand the context of how the books are written and stop being so literal or else you will end up hating everything and clearly don't understand the context of fire and blood.

[@joelschittenhelm5571]

Litterly no one missed these facts. But that doesnt make it good. Haelena being a dreamer is the best add they made. And it didnt have to be exactly like the books. But it missed all core elements of the scene. Missing some is okay but not all. 1. Perspective of Haelena rather than of B and C. Show the scenes with Daemon but than cut to Haelena bringing the children to bed 2. Let Haelena scream. I liked her shock at the end. But let her scream when she is only threatend and then suddenly stop it and let her run away 3. Let the mother choose the child. That is the most importan point. The core moment. And they didnt even have two boys to choose from 4. "Your mummy wants you dead" a repeating problem is them not using Georges words. Yes its only a telling of several characters BUT people love the story because of George. Use his words ffs, they cant be toped 5. Followup with sending the new eldest son to a castle to be ripped a part by a mob. But he has to exist for it to happen Bonus point for episode 2. How could Otto forget that this was his Grandgrandson and not his grandson that died. That screenwriting was honestly imberessing

[@Squeeple.]

Can’t wait for Dunk and Egg

[@justyouraverageshaun89]

Far too tame given what they've allowed in the past

[@debater452]

You can't really do this stuff to very young children

[@habibsaliu6208]

There was nothing tame about this. If u re desensitized to seeing children die in a very horrible way,some of us are not.

[@Jacaerys1]

Not ruined at all and it involving child actors is probably the reason for the change.

[@davidthewhale7556]

Blood and Cheese never would have come close to the Red Wedding. We don’t remember the Red Wedding because of its brutality, we remember it because it killed two main characters and eliminated the “good” faction. Even if done accurately, Blood and Cheese is more graphic but emotionally it would still pale in comparison.

[@NoahSteelyee]

This video is Ragebait for book loyalists. Saying it was “Ruined” and comparing it to the Red Wedding is is beyond laughable… Nobody who's read the book is denying Blood & Cheese is better depicted and makes more sense in the book than the show but some of the sentiments expressed in this comment section are completely illogical.

[@ZsoltSzabó-c2s]

You were right, this version would have been much more brutal, much more mentally torturing.

[@eh1126]

I both love and hate how GRRM wrote this story. Using different narrators who had different accounts based on their perspective, their bias. All of them somewhat unreliable but their accounts are all we have. Much similar to what real history is based on. Different accounts from different people and the truth is somewhere in the middle….

[@unforgiven1889]

Bruh imagine if tywin was born into the targaryen house instead? The scene would literally go like this both of the targaryen kids are killed in front of the queen then the queen and alicent are brutally killed only for cole to walk in as its happening then someone shoots cole's knees with a cross bow and tywin himself would appear behind cole telling him " the blacks send their regards" and the screen cuts to black

[@senister14]

Solidarity my fellow fan, right here with you, agreed. They ruined a great moment from the books.

[@daneglesak8162]

They have changed way to much stuff already. I don’t see why they need to make so many small changes because it also changes the meaning/character development. When I watched the episode again I noticed that aside from a few big plot points, everything is different from the books. I am actually really annoyed that more fans aren’t mad about these changes, bc this could be so much better. But then at the end of an episode Ryan will talk about how they are keeping with the book…

[@debater452]

The changes make sence and most of them have been for the better

[@gitusumbia]

The book is not exactly what happened

[@joelschittenhelm5571]

@@debater452 No no no no. The changes are the problem. They perfectly fill hole left open by the book but ruin its most detailed moments. The green council should have been the best episode of season one but it was the worst one. Blood and Cheese should have been the best episode of this season but they ruined it

[@debater452]

@@joelschittenhelm5571 How did they ruin it

[@joelschittenhelm5571]

@@debater452 Ill gladly tell you but I will copie another of my comments. So dont wonder if you see it double Haelena being a dreamer is the best add they made. And it didnt have to be exactly like the books. But it missed all core elements of the scene. Missing some is okay but not all. 1. Perspective of Haelena rather than of B and C. Show the scenes with Daemon but than cut to Haelena bringing the children to bed 2. Let Haelena scream. I liked her shock at the end. But let her scream when she is only threatend and then suddenly stop it and let her run away 3. Let the mother choose the child. That is the most importan point. The core moment. And they didnt even have two boys to choose from 4. "Your mummy wants you dead" a repeating problem is them not using Georges words. Yes its only a telling of several characters BUT people love the story because of George. Use his words ffs, they cant be toped 5. Followup with sending the new eldest son to a castle to be ripped a part by a mob. But he has to exist for it to happen Bonus point for episode 2. How could Otto forget that this was his Grandgrandson and not his grandson that died. That screenwriting was honestly emberessing

[@SV-wi6hc]

I was already fuming over the guy kicking the dog...

[@maggyfrog]

i feel like to solve the problem of how gruesome it is in the book, they could have gotten away with relying on off-screen shots and sound effects, exactly like what they did with jahaerys getting decapitated off-screen with sound effects. that, and a little bit of split second shots like with daemon cutting vaemond's head. maybe ryan condal miscalculated here, but i don't think that his reasoning is something to hate the way d&d just wanted to "subvert our expectations". i think ryan condal tried to rein in the visual gore because it involves a toddler, but it simply fell short.

[@regeneratedwitch]

I love grotesque scenes ngl. I was half disappointed and half relieved they didn’t follow the books. I wouldn’t like Alicent to be eye witness but I’d want Halaena to make the choice. But ofc I wouldn’t want to see a child’s head being cut off.

[@renshii422]

I didn't read the book so I thought it was shocking enough. I wonder why they changed it

[@harwil-pw9bz]

Unfortunately, I feel the writers have set up rhaenyra as the protagonist and aegon as the antagonist . I get it as I think most people will naturally gravitate to supporting her side more. However, I think it's taken away from the realism of the show as the real world isn't as simple as good and evil. The more appropriate phrase would be us and them. We will win. They will lose and let the viewers choose who their protagonist and antagonist is rather than coaching their thoughts and ideals. I appreciate many people disliked it. I didn't think it was that bad. You will note the show writers. Do do this. Like with game of thrones when they massively simplified the white walkers and took away their entire history and evolution. Regardless, the story still made sense despite the dreadful ending. However, great video though

[@sageastreaus7905]

People forget that the book Fire and Blood isn't an accurate take of what happened. The book is read by 2 different Maesters and a Jester. It's all read through historical accounts, from different perspectives. There is parts that are for sure on point and determined in the books, which they are keeping accurate but most of it isnt accurate.

[@teodorakoslov2929]

Maelor is accurate in the book, no bias involved. He was a damn royal child, and yet he doesn't exist in the show. Allicent is 10 years older than Rhaenyra, yet the show got that wrong, too.

[@sageastreaus7905]

@@teodorakoslov2929 what purpose did Maelor have in the story besides being kidnapped and his head crushed? His character didn't serve nor benefited anyone in the story of Fire and Blood. The boy was 3, had only a dragon egg, obviously too young for any kids, he was just a shock factor for Helaena and eventually Rhaenyra when they send his head. So let's put a 3 year old child in the show, just to show how insignificant he was in the overall story and his family, and let's film him getting his head crushed. I'm glad they changing things that need to be changed.

[@teodorakoslov2929]

@@sageastreaus7905 I didn't say he has a purpose. I say he exists in the books, certainly the Maesters and Mushroom didn't invent him, and yet the show doesn't have him, ergo, the show isn't canon and 'what actually happened'. George Martin said recently that the show isn't canon.

[@lesliemcmillan2971]

Ruined is WAY too harsh. They altered it. Almost ANY tv will ban bloody murder of a 👶 being perfectly depicted. Now, some will argue Haelena didn't make a choice. She DID. She just didn't choose between her boys, but her twins. I stg, viewers diappoint me for how bloodthirsty they are.

[@rudolfbakos1813]

I disagree with you guys, Blood and Cheese could have never been as shocking as the Red Wedding. Firstly, we do not have a deep connection with the character that is killed, I mean come on, which one of you can tell me 2 things about Jaehaerys from pure memory. Secondly, we do not really sympathise with the greens at this point and this takes away of the shocking factor. Lastly, now that this world is so famous thanks to GOT, a lot more people watched the summary video about the Dance of dragons which means, they actually knew what is going to happen. In my opinion it was a decent representation about Blood and Cheese.

[@jonniemckaig883]

Oh look. The only asoiaf content creator I still follow after today 😂

[@jithinraj1830]

They thought... Helena shocked twice... Back to back shocks .... Poor Helena ... I felt sad for her😢.

[@metasua]

Very odd choice for Blood/Cheese show. Yes the original scene in the books is even more shocking, but it's not like GOT didn't kill a pregnant woman by stabbing her in the belly in a wedding (also killed the husband, mother-in-law by cutting her throat, etc). I don't particulary like gore, but people have seen these scenes in GOT. Many know what happen in the books and when you start to set these things up in your new show you got to deliver, not tame things. No one is asking for unjustified violent/rape scenes that don't serve anything. We are asking for emotions that will serve the general plot. Wait and the sex scene at the end ? Is it a comedy show ? Blood/Cheese scene has been ruined. At least we had a nice "head cutting" sound design.

[@jdh5224]

completely ruined it. Missed opportunity. It's not even about the gruesomeness that makes blood and cheese impactful in the book but the dynamics and that little bit of dialogue that makes it such a psychological horror for Alicent and Helena which was essential for their character development

[@singstreetcar5881]

House of the dragon show runners are too soft for this type of material The show doesn't feel life game of thrones. It's too safe The show runners are also baised towards the blacks

[@mattcollins3591]

They legit decapitated a 5 year old. I have no idea what else you’re expecting.

[@ollyjhb3872]

You’re out of your mind 😂

[@musakamara4157]

​​@@mattcollins3591we see a montage of children and babies being killed (one gets drowned and we see it) in season 2 of game of thrones. That was over a decade ago. So people could handle it then but now it's too much?

[@mattcollins3591]

@@musakamara4157 babies being killed? Wasn’t it offscreen? I remember a soldier carrying a baby for like .5 seconds and like an older boy being pushed into water. Again, totally different than beheading a 5 year old. You don’t see any of the babies being murdered on screen. lol

[@kingkongchief1177]

Pissed me off so much they didn’t do blood and cheese like the book. All the violence and incest GOT and HOTD have shown but a kid loosing his head is too far?????

[@bandoogiemanz]

I don't even mind not showing the beheading ,but it's the other stuff. Ridiculing maelor, having Alicent witness it, having cheese escape, etc.

[@jpespinosa4539]

Seriously. No one likes the greens, even in the books 😂 how could this be a red wedding when no one is invested in them.

[@twelve11]

Such a missed opportunity. Knowing that Helaena was so pivotal in that scene, it was so confusing how little they developed her in season 1. Rather than being "odd" they could have expanded her character substaintially: have her interacting with Dreamfyre, shwoing affection for her dragon, the scenes wouldnt need to be long, but it wouldve been one way to endear her to the audience, similar tp how Cat and Robb and Talisa's roles were greatly expanded in GOT so by the end of the season she would have been a fully realised character, only making the death of her son even more intense. But the direction they took her being so strange, quiet and subdued removed any emotion, it carried zero weight and it was as flat as a random civilian being knocked out.

[@AdvenTureRah]

The show is very disappointing. It’s indeed Rhaenyra’s show all alone, not about the real house of the dragon.

[@D2attemp]

Harrenhall really is a white elephant armed with iron tusks

[@mattcollins3591]

In what world were people expecting HBO to show a 5 year old being decapitated? Thrones killed children yes, but not once was it in detail or even on screen. Shireens death, not on screen The killing of all the bastard babies in season 2, all off screen Major difference in seeing a child be poisoned and one getting decapitated in slow motion with a kitchen knife. This fanbase is the most overdramatic I’ve ever seen.

[@akaraniq]

That's literally not why people are upset

[@ollyjhb3872]

@@akaraniqno literally some people are upset over that

[@mattcollins3591]

@@akaraniq I’m not sure what you’ve been reading, but yes…

[@akaraniq]

@ollyjhb3872 no, it's not the ACTUAL death it's everything from the book concerning helaena and the emotional turmoil she faced in choosing a son to sacrifice while her kids looked on. The tv show lacked emotional connection with her kids

[@akaraniq]

@mattcollins3591 Well, as a book reader, that's not it at all. The child's death could have been shown off-screen with either scenario and it would have been enough, but the lack of emotion demonstrated by Heleana is what is upsetting to many people. It was rushed and it was better in the books

[@moraesneto9508]

I hope they change that in season 2, give her a bigger role in the plot and build a development of characters and a higher relationship for her and aegon, so that they are not only a drunken and violent father and a crazy woman mourned by the loss of her son, but a couple of grieving and enraged parents mounted on their dragons in search of fire and blood for the death of their firstborn and heir....

[@tyizzle80]

Yea they flubbed it up. Maybe If I didn't know the lore already I could of liked it better but the execution was sloppy and rushd and The way they made Helana have 0% Empathy and her reaction "They Killed the boy" as if he was nobody was very underwhelming.

[@BussinJeiber-wy1nc]

At least this episode gave up some more Lannister horse lore. I was thinking being a horse was unique to Tyrek Lannister. But we find out that Tyland Lannister is known for turning into a pony for little Jaehaerys. I wonder if Gerion is somewhere in Essos running free as a horse. Maybe he's the steed of a mighty Dothraki Khal

[@leorezendes8693]

Jesus Christ, yuh guys are NEVER satisfied , the show is fine, they’re doing a great job, ITS NOT GOING TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE BOOK!!! Btw what happens to rhaenyra is worse than blood in cheese imo

[@rhuskymikhaelorcullo5832]

Im sorry can you specify exactly what thing that happens to Rhaenyra is worse than what happened to Helaena, I really cannot remember a single thing that is worse than being forced to choose whom will die between your two sons and being threatened with your daughter being raped if you don't, and when you do choose you choose the younger because you believe it'd be easier for him because he wouldn't understand what was happening, and instead your eldest sons head hets cut off, meanwhile a man just whispers in your youger son's ear, "hear that little boy? your mama wants you dead" and that event traumatized you so much you can no longer look your soon in the face, and even later than that, that younger son of yours also dies because "Queen Rhaenyra" had posted a bounty on his head resulting in the boy being torn the fuck apart by a violent mob, and then later his head is even brought to you while your imprisoned.

[@leorezendes8693]

@@rhuskymikhaelorcullo5832 his head wasn’t brought to her, that’s just a rumor, but rhaenyra lost about all of her kids , her husband, and her mind as well, the poor aegon III (who also has it rough) is all she has left, she goes home to dragonstone to find her shitty half brother who feeds her to his dragon right in front of her son, the helplessness was unbearable , and lil aegons voice “mother flee”, ….just awful business

[@rhuskymikhaelorcullo5832]

@@leorezendes8693 Eh I still think Helaena had it worse, she was purely innocent in all this just caught in the crossfire and all her children died too as she was witness to it (and in her mind sentenced one of them to die) Rhaenyra may have lost her mind, but Helaena definitely did, and when she died the people had enough and actually rebelled against Rhaenyra.

[@leorezendes8693]

@@rhuskymikhaelorcullo5832 ….Team Black for life, i dont talk with Green sympathizers, good day sir

[@danmoore1427]

Not only that all the shit I'm the books is hearsay from people who were or weren't there so it's all open to interpretation

[@iSnipeJoe]

Well I believe that this instance was narrated from the pov of the meister , if anything it consolidated the theory that the meister plotted to take down the take down the targaryens power little by little

[@studyid231]

The most illogical moment was Blood and Cheese wasting time on which one was boy and girl. why would they waste time asking which one was which and relying on Helena's words ?

[@smit.shahYT]

I remember in the days after season 1 ended and discussions of what we could possibly see in season 2 was being discussed by people who had read the books. Mention of Blood and cheese came often, almost a mythical reverence, the readers would gleefully tell non readers they were in for a treat and it was going to he epic. Instead we got this shit show.

[@debater452]

The scene is honestly pretty good and effective I don't see why people are acting like It's shit

[@thurmanstevenson5692]

It was still pretty graphic

[@habibsaliu6208]

​@@debater452u need to understand, wat they read in the book was darker and they felt something more grim when they read it. So it only mks sense that those who read the book would seek that same feeling when it's adapted or something worse. Coz anything else will be underwhelming. This was inevitable. I am glad they didn't , certain things are better written than adapted. U don't do that to a child and his mother. Let them complain,it will pass. This scene was still dark for me, the thought has been in my head since I saw it yesterday.

[@Clippidyclappidy]

This is a bad take. We had 3 seasons with Rob and Catlyn. It was NEVER going to hit the same as the red wedding.

[@Geitepielekupke]

Everyone forgets that incident in the book is a 3rd person depiction of what happend of someone who heavily favors the greens. I think the way they portrait it in the show makes it more nuanced, more black and white, more grey like the og asoiaf books. It at least leaves it ambiguous instead of villainizing daemon and rhaenyra. Everyone just overreacting bevause they didnt see a baby get shanked again

[@pyramidion5911]

The problem is that the screenwriters think they are smarter than the genius, once in a lifetime, book author. In the minds of the paraphrasers, deleting and rearranging someone elses work is even more impressive than having an original idea.

[@ja9_9]

No, this event should in no way resemble or be compared to the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding had its moment prepared for an entire season, within the story it is positioned next to the "Rains of Castemere", it is considered the extinction of the Stark family name (as all of Westeros thinks that there are no heirs alive). So let's stop exaggerating, Jaeherys was another in a line that will grow.

[@ItsJe55]

Am I the only one who heard this video narrator say that all of Jaehaerys's daughters died before they could produce dragon riding children? Uhhh, Alyssa gave birth to Viserys and Daemon. Both rode a dragon.

[@darielibarry07]

The show is good bt the only issue I got with it is it feels like season 8 of GOT everything happening so fast n the fact they already had 2 battles off screen

[@r0bot404]

Yeah It was underwhelming, I was confused at first as I was expecting more

[@KingSlayer_.]

They totally shit the bed on this one😂 How it played out in the books was way more suspenseful and brutal. The writers were too damn scared to take a risk and adapt it word for word onto the show🤷‍♂️

[@androkguz]

Having just seen this on this video, I have to wonder what the hell do you guys find so impressive about this scene. Is it that you are loyalists or is it just the shock value? Because it feels just as interesting written as shown on tv. In fact, I would say that the scene of the murder itself is not that interesting compared to the *ramifications* and the personal impact of the murder. And that, the show *showed* while the book just *told me* in a brief passage. We see Haelena and Aegon's reaction on the next episode. We *see* them, we don't get told "and he was angry and she grew madder". The show decided to put us on the perspective of disassociating Haelena, almost wondering "did that really just happen? Is the boy dead?" In short, having seen the scene first and read the passage on the book latter, I don't feel like I missed anything.

[@Augustus1003]

Wtf why are they adding se** scenes. Its as if theu are intentionally want us to hate the greens

[@ItaloSouza-sk4lx]

I have a feeling that they won't kill Rhaenyra since her leg was the only thing that Sunfyre didn't devour. House of the Dragon is flirting with DEI in a bad way. I truly don't want an Episode 3 acolyte in House of the Dragon.

[@missym877]

Oh god another closeted racist here. Save your DEI complaints to a Trump rally

[@paft]

I haven't read the book(s), but the show isn't very good. Unlike GoT, it doesn't have me fully engaged when it should. I often do not care enough about what many characters have to say or what happens to them. Excluding the production quality the show feels like soulless B-rate tripe.

[@internettroll1344]

We dont know these characters as well as rob and caithlyn. How can you expect that it could be the same as the red wedding

[@hib6076]

Bro really needs to hire an editor

[@Nina-uy1eo]

They made TB members boring trying to make Rhaenyra less imcompetent. Now all of them are imcompenent. Season 2 was supposed to be a chance for Jace and Daemon to shine.

[@julio1148]

“Ruined” is strong words imo but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do in YT

[@K.MTamim]

Book readers try not to bitch about everything and anything challenge (impossible)

[@extraplain2412]

Its impossible to film the scene as its depicted in the books. So many wanna be critics and toxic fans who have no idea how difficult it is to make a film and have probably never stepped foot on a set in their lives. Anyone that thinks they can film the scene as portrayed in the book just a few things: Good luck finding the actors both child and adult, good luck with the media hate for showing such a graphic and distressing scene and good luck finding work again when you're accused of making a snuff film at best and being accused of CA for putting child actors through that trauma at worst. It was never supposed to be the next "red wedding" but that shows how shallow the general audience really is when it comes to understanding art.

[@JTrys]

it's not even about not showing it, they couldv'e kept the actual act off camera. Most ppl are just upset they didn't have that moment with the little son "you hear that little boy? your momma wants you dead" and also (and this is MY personal problem with it) that they didn't cut the episode after blood and cheese, instead, they have to show another sex scene with cole and Alicent, which takes you out of the moment.

[@JTrys]

also we got AI now, we don't even have to act that out anymore lol

[@extraplain2412]

@@JTrys Yes and that means having a grown man holding a young child and terrorising them. If you can imagine that scene without squirming there's something wrong with you. They can't do the line because they changed the choice Helaena made so saying the line would make no sense... They did end with blood and cheese it was all the same sequence. The reason they showed Alicent and Cole was to show what they were doing during Blood and Cheese so nobody asks where they were. If the writers know what they're doing this will cause a lot of drama between Alicent and Cole but we'll have to wait. It taking you out of the moment seems like a you problem because it didn't happen to me and Helaena's last line "they killed the boy" is chilling anyway. Did you really just recommend using AI to generate a child to be terrorised on screen? 🤦🤦🤦🤦 I think anyone moaning about this should just go watch A Serbian Film seems more in line with what you want from entertainment.

[@JTrys]

@@extraplain2412 you're literally watching the same show universe that burned a little girl alive and stabbed a pregnant woman. It sounds like you need to stop watching if you don't like horror/gore 🙄 I can't stand when fans can't take any critique.

[@extraplain2412]

@@JTrys I literally just mentioned A Serbian Film, but yeah gore and horror is totally something I can't handle 🤦🙄 I don't mind critique but it's the same crap everywhere. You're the only one complaining about the show itself. I'm simply explaining why the complaints around Blood and Cheese aren't warranted. Sounds like you're just an idiot ✌️

[@eg4325]

Agree that scene sucked . They dropped the ball big time

[@ronlewis1554]

I wish people would stop comparing the two like the book had a timeline and fuckin budget.

[@EdwardGriffith-s1l]

No one cares if you don't like the video, then don't watch it. There's no need to put. I wish people would stop complaining

[@xrippperrr-4071]

arent the books team greens' "POV" on the whole thing? so ofc it would make sense for them to over exaggerate it, im pretty sure the show was what actually happened, without the over exaggeration of team green.

[@TowelsKingdom]

There's a beast beneath the boards - Helaena

[@drunkvador]

Something tells me that I would like the Lady Jeyne Ayrrinn 😂. Doesn’t sound like much of a punishment and if she’s tough to please I’m always up for a challenge 🎉

[@maliceinwonderland00]

Fire And Blood is a telling of a story from the point of view of historians written over 100 years after the events! in the form of a history book leaving room to flesh out details. They don't have to literally follow all the source material. That's the point! The Show is supposed to be the real telling of a dam history book! Did all of you miss the point of fire and blood? Just Bash everything when you don't even understand the context of the dam books! GRRM is working on the show also So maybe everyone should just stop complaining about things the author himself agreed on!

[@lucyfaire1980]

Blood and Cheese is nothing like the Red Wedding. True, they made weird changes but I don't get how and why people exprected it to be like the red wedding.

[@sean5558]

We ,the perfectly sane fans , demand the on screen depiction of child beheadings to keep in line with the books ( not because we are bloodlusting sociopaths 🤫😉)

[@keibakate]

I don’t know. I like the idea that this is real and the book es an exaggerated retelling. It’s honest to how history is often portrayed in real life

[@snyder_paint3159]

wild how this entire show is based off 40pages

[@rjamesyork]

Not all changes amount to “ruining” - Martin’s original text makes clear the story is told by unreliable narrators.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

Exactly It doesn't have to be exact either! I'll explain the MANY details people missed in this episode. Helena is a dragon dreamer slipping between Drams and reality hence the blank look. She looked directly at the beds when she told Aegon she was afraid of the rats. She had pictures drawn on her chamber walls A rat and a boar with a knife, A boar being tortured " Blood and cheese" Two eyes " her eyes watching" two twins with no heads " She could see alternate outcomes, if she didn't point out her son they would have killed them both" She knew it was futile and was shocked it was coming true. She slips in and out of her visions as she runs down the stairs. Gasps as she reaches the bottom almost like coming back out of her dream. Trying to decide if it's real or not. Most Dragon dreamers do go insane in the lore. The detail of her being a dreamer is not in the books because The book is told by the point of view of Mushroom and the Grand maester. It's a second hand account written like a history book. You may also notice the drawings on the wall of Daenyres coming out of the fire.... A raven.... Many eyes.... her brain was plagued with so many images It's a wonder she can communicate at all.

[@dawsonlucas369]

When nobody realizes you cannot shoot this with child actors it's not allowed tf is wrong with all you good lord like morals people morals morals are you trying to scar some poor kid for his entire life tf

[@aegorrivers6700]

The problem wasn't the gore itself, the horror of the scene was making Haelena choose a child and the child being awake to see it, the way they did it just screwed it up, that's the worst part for me. I don't need to see gore, I just need psychological horror

[@gageadavis]

You should really acknowledge how the books or not supposed to be portrayed as fact and rather biased accounting’s with some truth mixed In. Too many people are shitting on the show not realising that the book and show are supposed to be different. The show is showing the truth, while the book showed third person accounts.

[@Dcll8451]

Was definitely expecting it to be way worse haha

[@cwill4270]

how do they fuck this up

[@blaze556922]

They didn't ruin anything. It's an adaptation and 95% of the viewing audience isn't aware of what happened in the books. So it ultimately is irrelevant imo I'm enjoying the show

[@victorkruger130]

Not Valeryon its VELARYON! VE-LA-REE-ON

[@Bounce_Plays]

Aegon the younger wins everybody else dies, and the show has ruined many scenes just follow the book and break television history

[@aguy2162]

This never had the potential to be RW type material. Idk what you’re talking about

[@josephlarkin7167]

This is why I wanted them to follow the books straightforward and from beginning you can change some things but not everything is a good change like daemon killing his wife or choking rhaenyra or rhaenys and maelys why did they kill the smallfolk and not the enemies only to make the small folk come to a conclusion that they would without that in the tv show that the dragons is the strength of the targs laenor abandoning his duties and dragon to another without explanation or assurance of death no dragon or dragonrider can just break the bond because they want in truth his dragon should remain to laenor until his death not because he didnt want his dragon anymore follow the books more accurately they could've kept it as aegon flying around the red King they could've kept the blood and cheese scene like it was in books not with haelena specifically pointing out the heir and I'm not saying hotd is bad and awful nooo but I think the changes they made didn't need to be changed like having alicent and criston In bed and cole going down on her is like those rumors that alicent was doing more than reading to the old king that she already slept with viserys before their marriage and consummation that criston cole wanted rhaenyra and was hella angry when she wanted her throne more now he her enemy but her enemies worse than rhaenyra is if she a 304 as they called her how with the hypocrisy is like does rhaenyra bastards even matter now especially when they ride dragons and seen as targs abd I think is cool nettles not in the show she didn't fight but one war and disappeared