Q&A with A&V Livestream 1/12/22

[@kimmer8547]

Over time I've grown a huge appreciation for you both! I love Vincent's complete support for Amy!! You are both immensely intelligent! Thank you!!

[@MillieandMaxMusic]

The two best scientists and educators on the internet (and the real world too!).

[@justanotherhuman4615]

V: “Amy is brilliant and right on everything she has said” 👍👍👍👍

[@angelapowell2366]

Love Amy, I'm a huge fan and feel confident in her information 💕🇿🇦💕

[@calvaryassemblyofgodsouthi8046]

Thank you both for your dedication to the science and to all of us.

[@elle26426]

'Team Amy' 💯🙏❤ (love u too Vincent). Seriously though, have learned lots from this channel - still so much more to learn. Thank u

[@ovrjoyd]

I appreciate Any's bluntness. I have no time or patience for BS either. 💯

[@float32]

I absolutely love working with people like this. It seems to be getting rare though.

[@TheMageesa]

She makes me miss living in NYC.

[@amyrugala246]

Hi Amy and Vincent, found you from an interview you did with David Parkman and glad I did. I suffer from “integration anxiety” since COVID started and your You Tube channels have slowly been getting me to go out again. I do it in baby steps, but the more I listen, the more I’m able to tell myself “you will be fine”. Thank you for your contributions and presenting to ALL that want to listen!!!!!

[@pkb1647]

You got this! Glad to hear it!

[@andrewwoffinden8671]

Oh my gosh, Amy is my new hero. And the 2 of you together, total super hero's.

[@mmmardi1]

I am with you V! I am never bored! Even during lockdown in Ontario, Canada, I studied virology with a great prof! Still going strong after 22 months

[@christopherrobinson7541]

In the UK the spacing between doses was 12 weeks (and the reduced to 8 weeks), we did not need to fix the dose spacing; however, we did go for the 3rd shot, which increased the protection against not only serious disease and death, but also infection. This strategy reduced the number of people sick at the same time, reducing the burden on the healthcare system.

[@elliec9917]

Amy you have a great dry sense of humor. The first time I heard you was when you joked about your very warm mink coat. So very funny. And you always say what you feel. People will never have their own lab at Columbia. You great and so brilliant is too.

[@elliec9917]

Oh Dr R and you are a Great Team. 🤩

[@carolinereidartist]

Loving this scientific discussion with people who really know their stuff

[@Sliverth]

Another excellent discussion. Thank you!

[@lezaarthur]

“LOVE” both of you as a team 💝💞💞💞💞💞

[@johnz8112]

Keep up the great work everyone!

[@jjuniper274]

I love Amy, we need more people like Amy.

[@Gabe-no5zy]

Really enjoying the weekly research paper review.

[@stormwalker321]

I just love Amy!! and Vincent too...!!!

[@andrewwoffinden8671]

Also, Amy is not just a lesson in Covid but a lesson in how to think.

[@biff2k2]

Amy’s last answer is great on so many levels.

[@jamesleem.d.7442]

Another great show today

[@samanthadalloo8232]

Agree...doesn't matter the variant... you go home and do nothing until you are blue in the face. Great approach.

[@asmasaeed8387]

Thank you Soo much

[@Backtothescience]

Just on Australia, a large proportion of the population had Astra Zeneca 12 weeks apart as primary doses, so booster dose 3 months after last dose will be 6 months after first dose.

[@lezaarthur]

Whooop 🤗 My “Favorite” day of the week 🦠🎊🎉🎊🎉💞💞💞

[@lampanish]

Excuse me..observations only..dont get offended...1st stop being so defensive..the more you defend her and the more she gets critical of others; the more the 'birds' will peck yous and try to discredit you; human nature...you need to remain aloof and more clinical perhaps.

[@dgh5760]

Dr. Jay Battacharya was one author of the Great Barrington Declaration. He was also on Lex Fridman and was interviewed by Peter Robinson.

[@caribbeanchild]

So full of personality...both of you. Inspiring!!!

[@crazyjds]

I use to explain vaccine like a coach or training partner for your immune system

[@biff2k2]

My only hesitation from returning to normal is that my 4 year old isn’t vaccinated.

[@charlestongren2860]

We won't for the foreseeable future-age, co-morbities & desire to return to former activities with no disabling effects. Especially for me as most travel is for SCUBA diving.

[@rasmasyean]

00:54:14 I think that's too wordy for an answer to most lay people so I think I'll try to make a "simplistic" analogy. Spike (protrusion) = "hand" of virus that grabs the cell. T-Cells recognize not just the hand, but the entire "arm, shoudler" and all other "internal organs" of the virus, the latter from natural infection. The Spike will mutate it's hand so it can better avoid antibody "gloves". The internal organs of the virus cannot change much (or as fast) without affecting the survival of the virus. So this is why T-Cells can recognize the variants more than antibodies (natural or vaccine).

[@arthol51]

Spike proteins don't mutate...see previous episodes of twiv where Amy explains this. Sometimes when simplifying a complex issue the explanation ends up being wrong... good for you for trying... but you are wrong.

[@rasmasyean]

@@arthol51 If you're taking an AP Bio test, sure, you can be a grammar nazi. But mutation also has a figurative meaning.

[@s-trader4686]

@@arthol51 Are you sure that you're explaining her position precisely re: "spike proteins don't mutate"? Although I seem to recall her saying something along those general lines, I'm finding tons of material on "spike protein mutations." Or did she say that was something like a misnomer?

[@charlestongren2860]

Each variant is described by number & type of mutations on spike. Countless diagrams of same & mutations "named" after area on spike where they occur.

[@rasmasyean]

02:01:55 Also, iirc, some DNA sequences are read faster than others from some reason. This might affect the rate of protien production which I would suspect CAN cause a slight change in phenotype.

[@janefromthecountry1820]

Welcome, our new Mod Tom Steinburg or Steinberg 👍🏻👍🏻🙏

[@4040mwilson]

Amy is why people dislike then distrust smart people.

[@4040mwilson]

@@sallybrookner4158 good for you.

[@fisherwomyn]

For children to understand how vaccines work show them how it’s builds soldiers inside them… or Links… whatever fighting for good characters they understand

[@jonnash5196]

I know several people who were double or triple vaccinated who got quite sick with covid . They didn't have to go to a hospital but one person has chronic headaches several weeks later. Why not wear a mask inside buildings ?

[@Aanthanur]

Amy rocks. love her grumpy way

[@thermodynamics458]

Vincent doesn't need to defend Amy so much. She's a strong independent woman. She can take care of herself.

[@Oughut88]

I agree. The moderators should delete personal comments immediately and Vincent definitely should not be validating them by mentioning them. Ignore, ignore, ignore.

[@s-trader4686]

I think he *wants* to defend her (vs. "needs to") because she's his friend, colleague, and "guest"... and also because he has such high regard for her on all levels. And note that his "defenses" are primarily against personal attacks, rather than intellectual disagreements, which she is well capable of handling. As host of the podcast/show, I don't blame him. I'm pretty sure she's not getting compensated to be here, and her time is very valuable.

[@rasmasyean]

02:03:16 This is annecdotal, but I'm in NYC and spend most of my waking time in restaurants, including "high risk" ones where people sing and dance, every day. I think there a high risk of infection from cases I've heard of crop out randomly related to said places. You cannot expect to not have virus there as most people are obviously asymptomatic and/or not (easily) infectible (the latter whom you don't need to worry about but it would explain why COVID doesn't seem to affect everyone). Personally I don't think you can be assured any time soon if ever that there is no virus in those places. You can only get vaccinated and/or (via "prior field test" I guess) expect it to not cause serious disease when you DO get infected/exposed significantly.

[@charlestongren2860]

We wouldn't even consider eating in a restaurant, going to a theater, gym, hair salon, spa, store or inside any building. I'm a former combat Marine so used to facing danger. We order online, delivery & curbside pick up. We have co- morbidities (age, wife had bc w/double mastectomy & radiation, had EBV, fibromyalgia & multiple MVA injuries (she was not driving), I am borderline diabetic, but prior to pandemic we ate out regularly, traveled EXTENSIVELY on long flights, to remote destinations where people might have diseases to which we had not been exposed,my wife got hair done, frequent body work,shopped in stores, we attended rock concerts. We're triple vaxxed but haven't changed our restrictive pandemic behavior at all. We're lucky to have nice property, our great dogs and plenty of interests. Think of people in the Great Depression. Not traveling is hardest but we want to make sure we will live & not be disabled from Long Covid, making travel difficult. I'm a big SCUBA diver (Instructor Trainer) & won't risk lung damage, heart issues, cognitive deficits or joint issues especially. I had to get countless unknown vaccinations as a Marine & certainly gave up many personal freedoms- staying at home with my wife & dogs would have been Heaven compared to Vietnam. Nor will I risk the physical and mental stress on our HCWs by engaging in risky behavior that effects others. I wish more people accepted that this is a historic pandemic & you just have to realize that the faster the world is vaccinated, people wear proper masks CORRECTLY, avoid any not absolutely necessary travel (IMO medical personnel & first responders), stay out of not strictly necessary indoor spaces (like work), the pandemic while & would have ended much earlier. We learned all this listening to every TWiV since beginning of pandemic + Daniel Griffin, reading suggested journal papers, not listening to MSM crappyola which comes months later than you'll hear it on TWiV, and usually cherrypicked for whatever they think their audience wants to hear.

[@charlestongren2860]

Also, the term asymptomatic refers/referred to unvaccinated &/or uninfected people who are positive and can transmit to many people as it was used during most of the pandemic at least. Idk if Omicron has less than previous variants.

[@rasmasyean]

@@charlestongren2860 Asymptomatic refers to only those who test positive OR had antibodies (for 2 months only though). So there's a small window to catch them. There is a smaller % of people (15% London high-exposure outbreak HCW's in a study), who never tested positive but have a "small T-Cell memory signature" (usually smaller than Asymptomatics and Symptomatics). So theoretically, they never have enough virus to transmit assuming they produced any at all in their nose I guess. I think overall Omicron PCR+ symptom expectaton is 40% (in contrast with the original Wuhan 60%). But I'm not sure if this is due to vaccine penetration.

[@droneinthehood]

I'm happy for Amy that data came out supporting some of what she said. I read the paper, and yes, vaccinated people shed less infectious virus. On average, it is lower. And yes, one should look at the actual quantitative values of infectious viral load, and not only on genome copies, which doesn't show the complete picture. Absolutely. But when listening to them, one kind of gets the feeling that comparatively, infected vaccinated people play a small or negligible role in the transmission of the virus, or is my feeling wrong here? There seems to be a lot of down playing infectious vaccinated people. Even in this paper the authors concluded that for vaccinated people, over 50% are still shedding infectious virus 5 days post symptom onset, and that hence, the CDC's reduction of isolation time down to 5 days to be risky. The paper basically confirms also secondary attack rate studies that compared index case unvaccinated vs vaccinated for Delta and Omicron, showing that vaccinations reduced houshold transmissions by a third, if boosted, roughly by half. With doubly vaccinated people being equally susceptible of infection by Omicron compared to unvaccinated people. But anyway, I'm sure they are right that vaccinated people shouldn't worry too much, especially if you have a booster shot.

[@jjuniper274]

Does anyone have the original op-ed? It's behind a paywall at the NYT. Thank you!

[@joefrancis759]

Your feeling is not wrong, there's been informed speculation here for months that the vaccines would reduce spreading, mainly through a reduced window of viral shedding due to a more rapid immune response. It makes perfect sense to me and not surprising that there will be data supporting this. But as you point out, they may be assuming more than they should.

[@justanotherhuman4615]

As a triple vaccinated person who has also tested positive, i hope that the vaccines have done there job and I have not infected too many others. I def felt unwell for 4 weeks. However, no hospital and back to full strength. No time for isolation for the employed it seems.

[@rasmasyean]

They are just looking at the data to support their original stance that “vaccinated people don’t spread”, “all the transmission is caused by the unvaccinated”, etc. If you take an objective look at what’s really happening - personally I’m in the epicenter and now hotspot and have real life observation - you get the idea that vaccination doesn’t reduce spreading to a significant level. What they are not considering is the notion that it doesn’t take much “infectious viral load” to infect a person. So, unless perhaps you’ve been vaccinated within 2 months and have super high antibodies (and that’s hope only as for now, likely variant dependent), it is insignificant in delaying the spread of the virus. The only thing vaccination does is reduce the symptoms for YOU. And if you guys haven’t figured it out by now, there is NO herd immunity in sight. But everyone can believe what they will I guess. I’m just saying not to take everything they conclude as gospel.

[@droneinthehood]

@@rasmasyean I actually largely completely agree with you! With Omicron, double vaccinations do not help against infection at all, at least not after 2 months or so (only against severity). And vaccinated people still spread the virus, maybe 30% less, because viable viral loads go down faster than for unvaccinated, but that is not a large effect. After a booster, it helps again for 2-3 months pretty well, then it goes down again, although not as much down as for only double vaccinations. So the notion that unvaccinated people largely dominate the spread is completely wrong for Omicron. It was already misleading for Delta, where vaccinated people still significantly contributed to the spread, especially since many behaved especially careless at some point. But it is now undeniably true with Omicron. And I agree, the notion of herd immunity was wrong to begin with, the latest with Delta it was clear.

[@5amiann]

Some said that asthma patients were worried about covid but the steroids we take daily might be helping. Also maybe we were first in line to get valxxed because we were worried.

[@johnbouttell5827]

@A&V Dear Amy & Vincent, so R nought is a mishmash. Shocking. Best wishes, John in jolly old England.

[@kellygarvin9006]

This didn’t age well

[@davidcann8788]

Yeah! I like John McEnroe

[@deem331]

I like Amy. Just as she is and is supposed to be. Very smart. Funny . To the point. Obviously effective at her called vocation! I'm a retired RN., ( Psych) Amy possibly wouldn't be good at my former job but HEY Amy I bet waaay better at Nursing than I would be and as a virologist. You go girl .

[@deem331]

Be " arrogant" . I've never heard you be " mean "

[@laughingwaters8309]

I love Amy

[@SurlyHick]

The CBD study was published two days ago. Racaniello’s scoffing attitude about anything he doesn’t know about or fits his way of thinking is certainly not “scientific”.

[@silverwolf4095]

These people are indeed very interesting.

[@tfinn0203]

Exactly, they both do it all the time especially Amy.

[@arthol51]

Both Amy and Vincent are experts in their field...if anyone can critique the CDC its these two renowned and highly published virologists. Dr Vinay Prashad is also a critic of the CDC and FDA... both these organizations deserve what they get especially from people that have been living and breathing this stuff for decades.

[@SurlyHick]

@@arthol51 The CBD study…cannabnoids blocking the virus…sorry, your reply missed the topic…the snarky comment was made that they might discuss it on TWIV if it’s published. Widely available study, made some headlines…if a molecule can block the virus in vitro maybe, just maybe a little enthusiasm could be shown towards capturing that ability in vivo. I’m sure people scoffed at injecting mold, right?

[@deborahfreedman333]

It wasn't a CBD study, twelve cannabinoids were studied. Three different cannabinoids showed promise, CBDA, CBGA and CBNA, but not CBD. They thought THCA was also a potential ligand, but could not obtain enough to complete that study. They showed these ligands could block cell entry _in vitro_ in epithelial cells, by blocking the spike protein RBD. The paper was published, January 10, 2022, in the Journal of Natural Products, and has no pay wall. It's a very pretty article, with some good illustrations and computer modeling. If you want to look it up, the link is in pubmed. I already sent Vincent an email, with the link. Maybe he'll read it, maybe not. There are some papers Vincent has presented, that when I discussed with my biochemist boyfriend, he scoffed at, as they were published in Cell Signaling. Every scientist has their blind spots, and journals they disregard.

[@9275633]

The monsters in War of the Worlds could have been wiped out-look what happened to the indigenous people of the Americas when they met Europeans

[@valeriemcdermott9423]

Bloody hell! The NHS of the world!! No wonder us Brits are skint!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@tomtracy5396]

Another great show and thanks for your hard work. But please realize that just as it’s tiresome to hear attacks and comment on Amy it’s getting really tiresome and distracting to keep listening to Vincent defend amy and lose his temper. I suggest you just remain silent, not read aloud the offensive remarks and deal with them offline before this turns into a clown show

[@charlestongren2860]

Mods can delete or remove so he can see them of he wants to comment at end.

[@Letsgocamping143]

Human behavior. People went crazy gathering together over the holidays.

[@arthol51]

We are social animals and that is hard to fight...500 million years of evolution can't be overcome in an instant.

[@deborahfreedman333]

@@arthol51 We should have the intelligence to overcome dangerous instincts.

[@rasmasyean]

My pharmacy's cough drop shelf has been completely empty every other time I pass by to check. It's been like this since post-Christmas at least (when someone pointed it out to me). :P The flu secton is pretty clear as well.

[@hotfrm]

Amy is not the john mcenroe. She is much nicer. Yeah I like the Muhammad Ali comparison better. Much coolr

[@shirleys6617]

Do you still have moderators? If so, weed out the personal attacks on Amy and give it a rest! The first half of this was all about Amy and it’s old now. Stick to the virology, please.

[@skepticalbadger]

The first half? Don't exaggerate.

[@deem331]

"The opposite of love isn't hate but rather indifference" You guys have em engaged .Great! Pat yourselves on the back when you get those negative comments. And Vincent , I love your empathy that comes thru at times on TWIV not just with Amy. I love the podcast

[@2listening1]

Amy is pretty. 😊

[@semiephemeral9]

TaqMan-1 doesn't tell you which HIV drugs to select for a patient. Only if the drugs you DID select are reducing HIV viral load. What nonsense.

[@gparsr]

At 31:25 re: unvaccinated and variants - as percent vaccinated continues to increase (slowly at this point of course), and the unvaccinated increasingly having natural immunity from one or more infections, shouldn't variant creation risk therefore be more common from those most at risk to weak covid response; namely, vulnerable people who are vaccinated *in addition to* those who never had covid but are unvaccinated? By now, most people have had exposure to Omicron or other variants (vaxed and unvaxed) and so shouldn't variant generation be increasingly more a function of people with weak immune responses independent of vaccine status?

[@mikam7546]

thank you both...listen allways here ..cause in germany is a bit to muche media madness about the theme : ) ahoi from berlin..you great

[@Mark_Ocain]

Yeah, I think the press are "differently-abled" intellectually...they don't get how vaccines work on the whole I like the 'fire extinguisher' analogy that Brianne Barker uses. It so eloquently describes a vaccine's mission.

[@tonaruch8623]

More the Andy Murray. Not McEnroe.

[@henkvandergaast3948]

Thanks Vincent.. I will check my email!!!

[@ruthmcbride1778]

Is there any evidence that suggest it may be better to get vaccinated in the same limb or in a different limb?

[@janefromthecountry1820]

Today the Washington Post is stating Omnicron waves Appear to Slow in Major Metros including New York! They stat its a glimmer of hope and the turning point could be near. The varient's trajectory is similar to that of other countries article further states. Rate of tests returning positive and rate of case increases seem to be slowing dtates Govenor of NY Kathy Hochul. 🙏🦋👍🏻

[@brianwillis7608]

Amy looks very tired... that girl is being overworked and due a great vaca..... great brains need rest, glass of wine and all the accouterments!!! Meals, spa and R&R ...

[@jonnash5196]

Yes Dr R should have to buy her a nice supper before these Wednesday pod casts 🙂 👍

[@arthol51]

Amy always looks tired... I actually worry about it.

[@marioferrari6681]

Can you explain a bit about isolation of the corona virus

[@skepticalbadger]

Really? Two years in and you're still peddling this "tHe virUS haS neVar bin isolaTeD!!¡!!11" crap?

[@marioferrari6681]

@@skepticalbadger Iwhoever you are mr MacFhearguis my query was addressed to the engineer not the oil tag. Kindly step aside!!

[@marioferrari6681]

Correction “oil rag”

[@timmarshall849]

Was Amy making a pun when she said the developmental biology class she took aged the best?

[@Ungtartog]

Your content is being "soft censored" on Facebook. Whenever I try to cite one of your vids in the comments section.. it will post the link, but it will not populate a proper thumbnail. Other KZbin links in the same thread *will* populate thumbnails. People are less likely to click if it has no picture. I know you are trying to stay away from the more controversial voices that are having their credentials and experience disparaged.. but you may become one of them soon. I do hope you take a stance against censorship. I don't know enough to critique what Dr. Robert Malone has to say.. but I do feel he is being slandered horribly and I would love to hear an ACTUAL critique of his opinions by someone like you and Amy that actually know what they are talking about. I understand you will have to review what he has to say first.. he might be wrong on many counts, but he is neither a slouch, nor a crack pot. He deserves to be heard. And he is not the only one.

[@gribbler1695]

Search: Double Check: Who Is Dr. Robert Malone?

[@Ungtartog]

@@gribbler1695 No. I meant a QUALIFIED critique. I've seen the Atlantic article and all the media psyops against him from unqualified analysts who don't actually know the material. Not what I am looking for.

[@gribbler1695]

@@Ungtartog Dr David Gorski has exposed a lot of quackery, including Malone.

[@Ungtartog]

@@gribbler1695 I Gorski a virologist? If not. Not qualified.

[@michellemaloney2059]

Endemic 2022, Yes No?

[@waynebashford6942]

Isn't the individual the major factor in transmission? I've had Covid twice now, and it was only the first 24hrs of the first infection that were uncomfortable. I know plenty of people double vaccinated, and some boosted who have had far worse symptoms than I ever had, and I don't see how they wouldn't be more likely to transmit.

[@arthol51]

What you have described is an anecdote. In science anecdotes are useless... data and lots of it are what's needed. Millions of humans have died from this... the vast majority unvaccinated... so your anecdote doesn't hold any credibility.

[@waynebashford6942]

@@arthol51 Things are always anecdotal to begin with.

[@joefrancis759]

Individual is definitely one factor, and in some cases surely a major factor, but I would imagine more due to bad behavior than just because of symptom severity.

[@carlitaticconi6655]

@@arthol51 Despite witnessing a similar scenario to Wayne's many times, I agree that it's important to look at large numbers. That's why I'm genuinely surprised that we are giving any credit whatsoever to the vaccine during the omicron wave becuase what we are seeing is negative efficacy with the most vaccinated populations having the highest case rates.

[@rasmasyean]

@@carlitaticconi6655 I think that could be because vaccinated people consists of a brunt of the population who would test because they are scared of the virus and anything remotely COVID related would make them test. If you test all the unvaccinated who don't give a crap when they are exposed and / or "non-severe", you would find a lot of them positive too.

[@elinannestad5320]

I'm super-interested in this young guy who has a way to deal with the 'vaccine-hesitant' in Philadelphia. What are his methods? Who is this guy, what is his success rate? At this stage 'vaccine hesitancy' is the number one problem, MORE so than the virus. My life seems to be full of anti-vaxxers, and none of them are reachable as far as I know. 'Hesitancy' seems to be a polite way to say anti-vax.

[@arthol51]

So what let them be. You are responsible for your own health not other peoples.

[@joefrancis759]

@xxxPassiexxx that's all fine until you cant get in for important treatments because all the careless wankers that got severe COVID consumed all the resources

[@joefrancis759]

​@xxxPassiexxx Fall for state manipulation? Pure straw man. We NEVER had a problem like this during a flu season where I live - it's unprecedented. This is the unanimous opinion of all the people I've spoken to working in health care. I have a friend who chose not to be vaccinated - he never goes out without a gd respirator, gloves, and alcohol spray. He's not the problem. I have another friend who twice had to miss critical transplant surgery due to Delta outbreak filling up the hospitals with mostly, you guessed it, unvaccinated people, probably most of them scoffer sh-heads that could have done a lot more to avoid contracting it. I'll blame away all I want here, thanks. Everyone has a responsibility - it doesn't go away because of a failed health care system. EDIT: just to be clear, I'm not arguing for vaccine mandates or putting out unvaxed people into the street. I'm only talking about personal responsibility that comes with being more than a mooch in a society.

[@deborahfreedman333]

@xxxPassiexxx Being civic minded, and wanting to help one's community, is not restricted to communist states. What an absurd idea. Look at the Preamble to the Constitution, one of the reasons this country was established was "to promote the general welfare". That is what uniform vaccination does, promote the general welfare. It is not the irresponsibility of the state filling ICU beds, but a bizarre dislike of experts and self-centeredness. This pandemic is clearly an anomaly, as many hospitals, across the country, are having to build additional morgue space. Over five and a half million people have died from this pandemic. We've not seen influenza deaths as severe in over a hundred years.

[@joefrancis759]

@xxxPassiexxx Sorry, I only got halfway through all that. I'm not going to debate whether COVID is worse than flu or is fake or whatever - all of that is totally irrelevant to the point I made. Also, my information doesn't come through politicians so that is also totally irrelevant. My conception of what happens at the local hospitals comes from professionals that are working there. I don't care what your UK stats say. I see no problem laying blame for irresponsible behavior at the feet of those whose careless choices cause problems. Getting vaccinated isn't even the only choice so you can stop banging on that straw man.

[@davidcann8788]

Is it sensible to repeatedly PCR test vaccinated airline passengers before and after travelling internationally? If both countries' populations are 90% vaccinated, why does it matter?

[@johns-lm3uu]

There is nothing for free. For two people as pretentious as you two to not understand basic economics is the real crime here.