Episode Thirty-Seven: E-boys and E-girls | Violating Community Guidelines

[@Gabriel-qw4og]

I LOVE that 5 mins into the e-boy/e-girl discourse we are knee deep into the impact of the bulbonic plague

[@gumshake689]

bulb

[@a.laddinsane]

Brittany correcting Sarah’s “25 million is half a billion” with “it’s a quarter of a billion” is sending me

[@swiftlylovestruck]

THIS SENT ME

[@rats_in_a_PACK]

it took me a second to realize they were both wrong 😭😅

[@jordan-ve4qw]

@@rats_in_a_PACK well sarah was less wrong because she was comparing that 25 million *back then* would have been similar to half a billion *now* lol

[@samanthapadgett2594]

Jenna marbles once said “they’re called Egirls because they work at radio shack” 😂

[@sierraholland8689]

I miss Jenna so much I hope she’s living her absolute BEST life 🥺❤️

[@kikibara1]

I was just thinking about her today🥴😢

[@Justelusivethings]

Period, long live the queen🎉

[@sparksflylove]

I hope she’s ready for her basketball game tomorrow ❤

[@mercer345]

I hope she's so tall now

[@jade4662]

brittany getting goblincore is so true the little rodent friend is mickey mouse 😭

[@lioreubm677]

What is the link to that quiz

[@AHHHHHHHHHHH849]

@@lioreubm677 idk if you found it yet but it's the uquiz one

[@jadenmanjarrez7439]

NO BECAUSE THIS MADE ME LAUGH

[@yuhgetintoit3190]

HAHAHAHAA SHUT UPPPPPO

[@junomonsoon]

I'm only two minutes in so this comment is less than 4% away from being completely incomprehensible

[@annalee580]

Brittany’s desk setup looks like a fratboy’s bedroom floor

[@gracefoss8168]

LMFAOOOJDDWO

[@TheKhfan001]

Brittany was absolutely a fratboy in a past life! XD

[@LunaRiver]

😂😂😂

[@tomcruisemiddleteeth]

she has himbo fratboy energy which is weird bc she's wildly smart but alas

[@j0ann]

It is ;)

[@babyseraphim555]

hey guys! Original Lolita fashion (the frilly, hyper-feminine type) originated in Japan separately from the book by Vladamir Nobokov. It's a style influenced by Victorian styles, and styles from the Rococo period. It was actually born out of need to take a stance against strict gender roles in the time period of its conception, and has nothing to do with the sexualization of childhood! All of that is a very separate subcategory

[@baby.ribz.]

Slay

[@jadebluhm4345]

I wonder if they were thinking of Coquette style which is a huge trend on tiktok which does reference the lolita book and lana del rey themes so it’s kind of confusing.

[@cozymoggele]

​@@jadebluhm4345 it doesnt help thag when I'm specifically looking for "lolita fashion jsk", blouse, cutsew, tights, etc the majority of the results are coquette clothes & lingerie! I would have a different impression about lolita clothes if I were informed only by the search results 😭

[@noelt2303]

I’ve been Goth/Metalhead since I was 12 and I’ve noticed being 23 now that the Egirl rise has really negatively influenced how men approach me. I’ll be outside my job and have men harass me for my phone number and call me a “Goth Queen” one guy said he’d run a train on me. Sometimes when I hook up with a guy he will say something about me being a Goth Gf and thinks that allows him to do things I don’t consent to, just because im into a scene that has been sexualized doesn’t mean a man can do whatever he wants during sex.

[@LucasMorceli1]

oh man, i had never thought about it this way. tbh, i never even thought straight man thought about these "thicc goth gf" stuff for real, to me it's just a meme. this is WILD

[@kismetcho]

Sounds about on par with my experience in the goth community as a young girl. I'm more than 10 years older than you - sorry to say that there are predatory men in every scene who treat fashion like an open invitation.

[@GGG-eu2lo]

but surely the foul behaviour you're talking about is just the fault of the men? why would someone being an e-girl be the one at fault here? the awful men you're talking about will always latch on to something and be creepy about it.

[@littlemisssoccher]

This attitude towards goth women has always been a thing though :// like always

[@sweetest-of-memes]

it seems like you’re blaming the e-girls / e-boys for the problem when you should be blaming the people actually treating you that way. this perception about goth women has been a thing for a long time, and it’s been memed so much that the “big tiddy goth gf” concept is pretty mainstream. if someone decides to treat you poorly because they fetishize this vision of a goth, that has nothing to do with another new style popping up and everything to do with the person who feels entitled to behave that way.

[@lanniemac4262]

I need to say that Lolita fashion is entirely separate from the book Lolita. It references rococo and Victorian fashion. It’s not meant to imitate children and it’s in no way sexual.

[@mhicmusic]

bumppppppp yes totally separate from that nasty ass book lol

[@Jesminda]

Thank you. God I was yelling at the screen.

[@bonanahh]

THANK YOU I also came to the comments to say this! Lolita fashion has nothing to do with the book.

[@distortedplushie]

literally!! people used to get flamed for showing their knees in lolita it's not sexual at all

[@pig3292]

Just goes to show how little research is put into this 💀 (still enjoy it but yeah...)

[@schneiderhadfield1567]

lolita fashion is rooted in female resistance to the male gaze. people's misconceptions are what give it the child-like vibe

[@jayjustinbasil7221]

I often hear it described as “a little girl’s idea of beautiful” which is honestly a beautiful way to honor your inner child and reclaim your femininity.

[@KingOfGaymes]

@@jayjustinbasil7221 makes sense as to why a lot of the outfit look doll like

[@willie4982]

Yes! thank you

[@cybersucia]

Yes exactly

[@shroomyman3388]

its just like thats the WORST thing to name it tbh because no matter what its gonna be link to the book

[@sydney9011]

As a goth and a member of the EGL Lolita community: Lolita has NOTHING to do with the book, it started as a feminist fashion movement, dressing in ways that aren't pleasing to men. It's not dressing like a little girl, it was dressing in old/intricate fashions that resemble porcelain dolls. It was meant to liberate women from a male gaze and focus on clothing that made them feel pretty. "Goth" is a style of music, which then evolved into a fashion based on the music so some goths get upset when people who don't listen to the music that the style is founded on, they come off as fake. Being goth is something no one has been able to pin down concretely so it can be a loose definition, as well as the sub-types of goth. In general, you can be goth but also listen to bubblegum pop and wear pink(As long as you also listen to goth music).

[@mea864]

This^^

[@Seabe_33]

🎉lmbfj

[@alisonnicolai5105]

@@sweetembrace6706 there are ATTEMPTS at liberation from the male gaze, doesn’t mean they were successful. Lolita fashion specifically arose in Japan as a way to reject the beauty standards and expectations of women at the time, and they were trying to dress in ways that were distinctly not appealing to men at the time. Similar to gyaru, decors, etc, lolita fashion is about female liberation and embracing our femininity, similar to the bimbo movement in the west. Just like bimbos are sexualized by men, that doesn’t mean they are trying to be sexualized by men. It’s about liberation, particularly of their sexuality. Lolita fashion is about liberation by reclaiming femininity and using modesty as a way to express yourself and make yourself happy.

[@milacvetkovic8835]

@@alisonnicolai5105 I was on board until you implied the bimbo aesthetic isn't "pandering" majorly to the western male gaze. I'm not against it in any way, just confused. Is there something about the bimbo aesthetic that is supposed to deflect male attraction, or is it that bimbos are "reclaiming" the extremely feminine and sexual aesthetic by subscribing to the look itself but still actively rejecting men? Or doing it in such an extreme way that it actually surpasses the point at which bimbo fashion panders to the male gaze?

[@pointlessness3505]

Thank you for commenting this. I'm tried of people associating lolita fashion with the book.

[@dchouk2680]

Lost it when Sarah accidentally said "Romano Flowers from Pilgrim Saves the World or something" because wow that sounds like it would be a different character and story hahaa

[@mtlrproductions]

i thought my brain was glitching

[@SaintShion]

Romano is Ramonas male vers.

[@josiegrosie]

People viewed e-girl / e-boys with watchful eyes bc it is an alternative look that is distinctly NOT a subculture. Like there is no genre of music that is e-girl. There is no ethos, no scene, no events, no community irl. It ties in directly to the recent trend of wanting to aestheticize everything. It is about the look, the presentation, and its social media consumption. Punk and goth are not just labels; they are signifiers. There is no one way to look like either (even if there are staples), but identifying as such implies a knowledge of the musical culture and/or agreement with their moral pillars.

[@leahelaynerivera7410]

The culture is chronically online

[@jayjustinbasil7221]

The only ethos seems to be virality at any cost, which is a terrible ethos. Not that everyone who dresses in that style believes that, but that’s the only uniting thought between these people that I can find😬

[@blankblosh3357]

Yeah, that's why they're called electronic.

[@ElpSmith]

The whole point of e-girls and e-boys is that they exist online

[@josiegrosie]

@@blankblosh3357 there have been multiple interests that evolved as online spaces but still managed to build community or music cultures. There’s over two decades of internet history that show the internet isn’t a death sentence for subculture s. Egirls/eboys standing for electronic does not provide context as to why they became stagnant at a superficial level.

[@zackidc]

i’m very glad people are pointing out the fashion of lolita and the novel by vladimir nabokov are different and there is nothing sexual about lolita fashion. i’d just like to point out there is nothing romantic about the novel either. yes there are sexual elements of it but in the same way there’s sexual elements of law and order svu. there is NOTHING condoning the narrator’s actions in the novel cause he’s a fucking creep.

[@booksandotherdrugs4076]

Thank you, if you've read Lolita you know it is not a "love story", Humbert is a pervert and it is obvious. The book being viewed as an endorsement by the author of Humbert's behavior isn't real. Pervy men over the years have spoken or written about it being a "great love story" (vomit) because they are gross and want to normalize that idea. Understandable that some people don't want to read it though.

[@attractedtoghosts]

Literally about some to comment something similar. It's just very clear that they don't understand these alt fashions at all. If they're reading this, KZbinrs like LovelyLor are a great resource for what the fashion represents, as well as the r/Lolita subreddit. It's about dressing in a way that's modest, wholesome, cute, over the top, and fun and does not have anything at all remotely to do with sex or "dressing as a child". It's almost a meme at the point within the Lolita community about how many times you have to explain that nothing to do with that pdfile of a man, Vladimir Nabokov, and his dumpster-fire of a book.

[@monroe8566]

@@attractedtoghosts hey sorry to argue, but do you know what the book is about? The point is that the narrator is a terrible person and that he’s unreliable. Please do research before shaming the author

[@alisonnicolai5105]

@@attractedtoghosts I was going to say, nobakov himself isn’t problematic, he wrote the book to be creepy and off putting with the main character being a bad person and not the hero of the story. The move adaptations however end up just being creepy and sexual and not actually representing the point of the book, which was very much pedophilia bad

[@SabrinapicsTV]

yup!! alot of people base their view of the books based on the film adaptations (which are not very good because of how they sympathize with the main character, instead of condemning him as a creep like the books) but in the book he is meant to be seen as a bad person!! Lola Sebastian has really great video essays about the book/movies if anyone is curious.

[@flaminghotbecks8275]

If there's one thing brittany loves, it's the word "inherently"

[@pattyrad]

and macabre

[@Billibab]

GOOD JOB BRITTANY!!! Salute to Mission Control

[@Tonponpon]

I wish you all could’ve actually touched on the problematic nature of elements of e-girl/boy culture like the rampant racism and r*pe culture especially related to that face you all are referring to which is called “ahegao”

[@alisonnicolai5105]

YESS omg esp with the appropriative stuff from Japanese fashion and since the ahegao face is rooted in pedophilia :(

[@ElpSmith]

At least Kurtis Conner covered it

[@HJima]

japanese anime culture can be toxic as fuck as much as fans dont want to admit, pedos in it, many toxic men, and lots of incels.

[@dumbdonny4824]

@@ElpSmith I fucking love kurtis

[@damionhowe8903]

Sarah 'getting shot in a drive thru is a big fear' Me working fast food: me too

[@brett8259]

With guys who send hate to girls who game but then want girls who like gaming, they're not really looking for a girl with a hobby. They want a girl who WILL play a game with them and they can win and feel better about themselves. They want a girl who will sit and watch him play, and not complain. They don't care about the girls actual enjoyment of it, it's all based around their own enjoyment of it.

[@Clone106]

i love this podcast so so much but this episode needed so so much more research

[@senyahsss]

literally, just saying things

[@jayjustinbasil7221]

That’s true of a lot of episodes tbh…I love these two but the info presented is just wrong a lot of the time. I get that they have to make these quickly, but I’d rather have a very surface-level jokey podcast about an internet community than one where they go off on a tangent based on assumptions that are not well researched or even true. Like babycore is completely separate from ABDL. There is nothing inherently sexual about it so that condemning tangent was unnecessary.

[@conchagoblin389]

seriously !! :(

[@KingOfGaymes]

And last episode needing some reviewing before posting, idk why they thought that was a good idea..

[@witchingbrew3]

@@senyahsss literally can wikipedia it and then discuss it, its not that hard. They're dismissing people livelihoods

[@simplinati]

"GAY?? YOU'RE GAY?!" Had me dead lmao

[@boldlyvoid4912]

28:33 there is a little line at the top of the quiz that says "come get your assigned British gender" and i need brittany to take it rn

[@stephany5104]

the lolita community actively works against the misconception that its related to the book, its not meant to be childlike and is more inspired by victorian fashion

[@LilyoftheValleyUTAU]

THIS, thank goodness for all the comments like these. I wear Lolita Fashion and have been part of the community for years. I swear we bring up the debate of "if you could change the name, what would you change it to?" every week. But it's been around for so long that the name being changed would be impossible. It's so ingrained even if we all hate it. Most of us call it EGL anyways, or just "j-fashion".

[@alizabef1301]

Unfortunately the name Lolita brings connotations of that really gross book, but the style subculture is wonderful. It’s extremely wholesome and in great defiance of the male gaze. I recommend you look more into it, as it’s really cool!

[@gatorskulls]

This exactly!! Lolita (also known as EGL or Elegant Gothic Lolita) fashion is a Japanese subculture that was never meant to be sexualized but has been taken completely out of context. It was originally a way for Japanese women to rebel against the very strict beauty standards in the 80s and 90s and to have fun with how they dressed. It has nothing to do with the book. Of course women having fun and dressing in a modest yet bright way was sexualized by men lmao we can't have shit. When you think about fashion inspired by the book Lolita, a more accurate term would be "nymphet" fashion but of course people latched onto the book title instead.

[@deltaloraine]

Yeah it’s not my style, but I find Lolita fashion so fun to look at because of all the fun colors, stickers, accessories, etc.

[@KingOfGaymes]

I hate that it’s associated with that book, Lolita fashion is so pretty

[@aranthium76]

the book is actually really great! would recommend looking up how it is a critique of pedophilic societies

[@alizabef1301]

@@aranthium76 I agree that the author’s intent while writing the book was to display the manipulation that predators employ upon their victims. However, unfortunately, the book is associated with the story rather than the author’s intent behind the story so it ruins public perception of the true message :/ But good point, thanks for reminding me!

[@Dzaeli]

I think you should look up some of the history of lolita and kawaii fashion, because it is pretty much the opposite of a fetish. It started as a rebellious counter culture for girls in Japan to embrace feminine, cute styles that were just for self expression rather than catering to men and being sexy, since Japanese men were very turned off by it. Mainstream Japanese culture is very conformist. Kawaii fashion actually originated with cute handwriting styles that schoolgirls used since they weren't able to express themselves much with clothing and hair since they have to wear uniforms and aren't usually allowed to have died hair and accessories. The handwriting style was actually banned in schools at one point.

[@KingOfGaymes]

Just curious how did Kawaii fashion come from handwriting? And what was the handwriting they did? 😯

[@GigiofGigi]

@@KingOfGaymes the hand writing is more eccentric and fun, like dotting hearts on an i and cursive loops and sparkles at the end of your sentence. Just really extra and cutesy so then that came into stationary like pencils and book bags and eventually clothing and hair accessories

[@MarilyRose]

Lolita fashion has nothing to do with the book, the fashion subset you’re thinking of is called Nymphette or Coquette

[@morganglantz]

brittany being a goblin makes so much sense

[@thefinalgirl6907]

As a goth person myself, the reason most of us get a bad taste in our mouths from the e-girls/e-boys community, is because goth is a heavily music based subculture. Some of these people call themselves "goth" and walk around listening to Lil Peep or some other musical artists that are not goth (not that those artists are inherently bad, they just aren't in the goth music genre). Most of the time, when you try to explain this to them, they get all butthurt and pouty and try to justify it by the way that they dress, and once again, goth is a music based subculture. So the way you dress doesn't exactly matter. (Most goths are commonly seen wearing colors such as dark greys, most commonly all black, dark reds, and even dark greens and dark purples. But this does not mean you have to dress that way since it's a music based subculture.)

[@funeralgirl]

well said. 🖤

[@moss_moonstone]

It just comes off as gatekeeping the culture though. People can participate or dabble in any subculture. "Goth" has become synonymous with dark/macabre aesthetics. You don't have to know any sea shanties or celtic folk tunes to attend a ren faire, you don't have to like Melanie Martienz to be pastel goth, and you don't have to listen to the smiths to be goth. Now if you were a hater and a bully in high school and crapped on everyone who dressed that way and now you do it for clout, that's fake and ugly and we hate it. We gotta value authenticity over personal tastes.

[@sweetest-of-memes]

i just think it’s weird to gatekeep someone from a community they genuinely enjoy (emphasis on genuine) because they don’t fit your perception of what a goth should be. some people say it’s mostly about the music, some say it’s about the counterculture lifestyle, some say it’s about the style. if we’re saying it’s mostly about music, where do you draw the line? can a person not be goth if they listen to multiple kinds of music but also really love goth music? it just seems silly to have to make sure someone is good enough to fit into a group like it’s a competition. there isn’t just one way to participate in a community.

[@cinnamonginger5473]

Goth is an aesthetic tho, it’s rooted in the gothic era of art, architecture, and yes fashion. Goth has more roots in fashion than it does in music than say punk or emo.

[@seeyataliya7578]

Perfectly said !!!

[@kryptic.korvid]

As a goth: most of us don't care about egirls and eboys considering themselves alt, they are alternative, we just have a problem when they claim to be something they're not. Like you're not goth or emo just because you wear chains and black clothes, you have to listen to the music or be a part of the subculture. Additionally, the majority of alternative subcultures are based around music or political ideologies, and it's a huge part of every culture. The e-aesthetic has no set music genre and no political ideologies, making it seem like just a fashion trend and not an alternative subculture.

[@kryptic.korvid]

@@sweetembrace6706 gatekeepers in the community are fucking annoying and unnecessary, but it's just annoying when people claim to be in a scene they're not. Like egirls claiming to be punk but theyve never listened to a single punk song, never been to a show or protest, never dressed rebellious etc. It's not hard to be a part of a subculture so it's just annoying when people claim they are while doing NOTHING to be a part of it. There's also the fact that egirls have no set politics, and you HAVE to have certain beliefs to be considered punk. No conservative punks please.

[@kryptic.korvid]

@@sweetembrace6706 it's also important to remember anti establishment doesn't mean anti community, you wouldn't consider a cis straight person a part of the LGBT community

[@blankblosh3357]

The e-aesthtics do have a music genre

[@kryptic.korvid]

@@blankblosh3357 kind of, but it's very vague and non-specific. They may listen to Freddie dredd or hyperpop, but there's no "egirl" music genre while there's goth, punk, scene, emo genres etc

[@a1yssaa]

being “emo” has nothing to do w music 😂 it literally means “emotional” now , if u wanna say u listen to emo music- its probably lots of sad songs.

[@kellisandidge1121]

The Tacobell I worked at actually did have a shooting happen in the drive thru. People didn’t leave the window so everyone was stuck behind them. Everyone was okay but it was not a Baja blast

[@Zimzum93]

It was not a Baja Blast hahahahahaha fuuuuuck

[@ElpSmith]

I live for Stanley’s commentary every episode

[@brothyyyy]

The way I absolutely shrieked at “how come there’s not human skin for you?” 😭😭😭💀

[@ginalbinson475]

there's nothing sexual about lolita fashion, it's entirely separate from the book :(:(:(

[@sleepycadaver9556]

Dude I knowwww 😭

[@jadecloverx]

now y’all gotta do a lolita fashion episode as an apology 💀

[@emmanuelle8270]

yea they should sjfsdf

[@wrayngumball5483]

They better address it in some way

[@gore2317]

Yeah they need too 😭

[@ReptilianTeaDrinker]

Agreed.

[@cheeseblades]

@@wrayngumball5483 they don't have to address anything... unsub

[@minisqwish]

I can absolutely see gen alpha coining "i'll kill you" cause currently ive see a lot of younger gen z saying shit like "i am in your walls" so i feel like thats just the natural progression here

[@idab6864]

Lmfao

[@dddakotarose]

Okay but Sarah has a point about the alpha generation thing bc as a teen I went through a phase of saying “I’m gonna commit a homicide” any time I was slightly inconvenienced (realized I had to stop saying it when people started actually doing mass murder at an increasing rate)

[@Jesminda]

Hey ladies. Lolita fashion is based mainly in Rococo and Victorian fashion, not with trying to look like a little girl. The style is not associated with what its name implies. Check out 'classic lolita' where people look like stylish grandmas. There is also the 'coquette aesthetic' which shares a lot of similar elements to lotlita (hyper femininity) but even that is not connected to what the name implies.

[@ronaldwoozlib9874]

Coquette means “flirtatious woman” so it is a little different

[@bostonterrier2976]

I went to high school in the early 90s (hi old) and I was friends with goth kids but we didn't use the term "goth" yet - we called the clique the "punks" but it was a combination of more classic goth aesthetic (pale makeup and Wednesday Adams braids, all black with chokers and fishnets) but also chains, mohawks, and plaid - referencing 80s punk culture from the UK and Germany. Music was 80s new wave and punk, grunge, metal, trippy dark stuff, even 60s stuff! Such a cool mix of references.

[@weebiebaby4545]

Talking about fashion subcultures and not mentioning Harajuku and ALL the subcultures that stemmed from there is A CRIME

[@lindenm.9149]

Well they mentioned Lolita…got it completely wrong but they did mention J Fashion technically.

[@weebiebaby4545]

@@lindenm.9149 yeah but there’s so much more to harajuku fashion than just Lolita fashion and they didn’t mention visual kei and that is a HUGE influence for e girls and e boys

[@identitymonster]

To be honest I kind of wish they didn’t even mention Lolita because now there’s people in the comments defending that it must have to do with the book a sad day for Jfashion lovers

[@weebiebaby4545]

@@identitymonster i agree completely!

[@nuclearseahorse]

@@weebiebaby4545 I didn't realize visual kei was an influence on e-fashion

[@gore2317]

Just wanna mention Lolita fashion and Lolita the book are two very different things, majority of the Lolita fashion community do not support the book . The Lolita fashion movement originally started as a resistance towards the patriarchal influence in society. The original concept of dressing lolita was to unsexualise the person wearing it and the way people view children. (Please update me if I am wrong on some parts but this was from memory, feel free to add on)

[@saoirseok3630]

youre right but the book lolita isnt like problematic or anything. the acts of the narrator are not condoned by the author

[@sarroumarbeu6810]

​@@saoirseok3630exactly...the creep in the story is outright called and considered in immoral creep ..the narrative is very much not in support of him

[@hellobubble]

I don't know how to explain it adequately, but my friend and I went to a rich people's mall one day. We saw this girl who was dressed really grungy and I was in love with her outfit. I said "I wish I could find clothes like that" and my friend looked at me and said "being alternative is for rich people now. We can't afford to be alt." and I think that is why I have a problem with people who dress alt and are not in it for the movement, too. Like they kinda use certain styles to resale on depop for overpriced amounts and stuff and now I can't go thrifting like I used to bc thrift stores near me and are accessible are up charging because people are reselling at really high prices so it's kinda just like feeding capitalism and some movements are the exact opposite of supporting capitalism?

[@hellobubble]

I don't blame it all on them, but it grinds my gears a bit.

[@Atumblingblogger]

im emo and i can afford it because all my clothes are hand me downs or from middle school

[@Weebslayer13]

Fr fr, lots of people dress in an alternative fashion, but aren't actually alternative

[@poppypoppy4826]

I get what you mean that the look is harder to achieve now, but literally the whole point of being alt is being creative and making/finding the clothes yourselves to express your own style. Diy band tees, thrift store clothes, learning how to sew/stud/customise is more alternative than buying anything from a mall x

[@hellobubble]

@@poppypoppy4826 but that's kinda the problem. I can't afford thrift stores like I used to be able to. Before I could get 5 or 6 t-shirts for the same price I can get 1 and it takes me a lot longer to acquire materials to be able to make/cut/sew/reconstruct things. I have no problem with people dressing alt, but they buy things to resell them at higher prices and it, unfortunately, affects everyone. From not being able to find the clothes thrifting (which is an even bigger problem for people who don't wear straight-sized clothes), to not being able to afford as much, and even more. A once maybe 10 dollar DIY project is now 15 or 20 dollars depending on what you have access to and it is unfair to the alt movement as a whole to resale things ONLY for personal gain. I want everyone to be able to express themselves in whatever way they can but when they aren't in it for the movement, it really hurts everyone who cares about the movement and can be a very selfish thing.

[@ravinstrong9392]

Man I love you guys the the last two episodes have been Ls there’s a lot of misinformation in the episode and a lot of lack of understanding of alternative subcultures

[@frostyskeletons8950]

Just a reminder they batch record, so any changes that feedback from last week inspired won’t be reflected for a little while

[@ayooooitsyaguy1286]

this>>> I love them but sometimes they just spit ball random things as if they’re facts when it would literally take one google search and 30 seconds to get the correct answer :/

[@KingOfGaymes]

The Lolita thing is just easily researchable.. and last weeks episode should just be removed it’s awful

[@idab6864]

Again, them not doing their own research and reading the research for the first time during filming is truly not working in their favor. Sarah asks what E in egirl or eboy stands for, and then like two sentences later in the research it's clarified, and she's like "oh". Like the flow of conversation sucks because they're literally reading this shit for the first time while filming, and then on top of it they like don't even know what they're talking about as they're trying to talk about it.

[@julijepp]

@@idab6864 Exactly, thank you

[@bubblebrainbow]

Lolita fashion did NOT want to be called lolita, it was named lolita by the MEDIA. It is not about dressing like a "little girl/boy" it's more inspired by victorian fashion, surrealism, and cuteness. Please don't slander Lolita fashion, they have it so hard just for liking cute things.

[@blakegroschen4409]

a lot of what i see of why people are upset with the egirl/eboy aesthetic getting super popular is that people who actually did dress alt as a kid were bullied and now its like a ‘trend’ and a lot of the people participating in the aesthetic now bc its ‘cool’ were the ones who bullied people for it. obviously not everyone who participates in this aesthetic was a bully but at least for me its quite a few people who would bully me think its cool now 😂

[@MaeMaeLovesYou88]

“…. With a little rodent companion.” Knows that Brittany is a Remy stan from Ratatouille 😂

[@chloemollie-ahn4775]

I'd love to see you guys do an episode about Lolita Fashion because your misconceptions of what Lolita is are common unfortunately and it would be super educational and interesting to hear you guys speak on the actual origins of Lolita.

[@newspaperadvert]

Watching them talk different aesthetics as someone who dresses exclusively like a Victorian I was like "oh man look at these weirdos, anyways time to iron my waistcoat"

[@vinceradical8910]

Brittanys shark fact is true. once you enter the sea, you're in their world. and they are everywhere. i still swim in the sea. by and large, sharks don't want humans

[@mywadi]

I appreciate the overblushed trend bc I have rosacea & acne & it makes me feel a bit more "normal", which is very appreciated when I spent most of my teens incredibly insecure about those things lol.

[@emersonbordeaux]

I cannot even articulate how much I love getting the notification for new episodes of this podcast

[@turnip2080]

Lolita fashion (Elegant gothic Lolita) has no ties to the book by Nabokov, it’s literally just a name. Lolita fashion is a Japanese street fashion inspired by the rococo, Edwardian, Victorian era etc. NOT meant to be children’s clothing. The fashion is kind of a celebration of femininity and not supposed to be sexualized in any way. Just an excuse to dress cute and drink tea. Pls stop comparing the book to the fashion 🫠

[@kyleeren]

the book contextualized is not that creepy either :/

[@identitymonster]

@@kyleeren isn’t the book about a pedophile justifying to himself that his feelings for the child is normal and that it’s her fault.

[@emilydenomme2902]

Yes so glad to finally spend my Monday how I intended, listening to Brittany and Sarah

[@prismo1428]

“Scott Pilgrim and the Chocolate Factory” had me dying loll. 36:54

[@liseeg4165]

Same! And I would 100% watch that movie

[@besosiriusrn]

I highly suggest you watch content from actual lolita’s because the majority of the lolita community wants nothing to do with the book Lolita. It’s not meant to be sexual or about dressing like a kid or for any male validation. It’s still a debate on whether the style name came from the books or not, but regardless it’s hard to find lolita’s who defend the book or say they are connected Edit: Correcting myself about the term “lolita doll”

[@jiggly-puffy]

just fyi Lolitas don’t refer to ourselves as dolls, but I agree with your sentiment.

[@besosiriusrn]

@@jiggly-puffy ag okay good to know!! I’ve seen some refer to themselves as that on ig so I just assumed, thanks for letting me know!!

[@sarahlandry2988]

Idk why but when Brittany said "Lil Toe" I started laughing so hard I had to press pause. Love the podcast as always but I tend to agree with some comments that doing a little research/read-up before the episode might be more helpful with certain topics. Can't wait for next week's episode.

[@SJisReading]

Goth is where all of this stems from, but really, goth itself grew out of punk. So let's all thank Grandaddy Punk for making us so much cooler.

[@pinkldy101]

Disagree. The punk movement mainly started in the late 70s and goth-like aesthetics could be seen as early as the 60s (ex: The Addams Family, The Munsters). You could even argue it started before that with gothic literature and occultism in the 16th century. Goth as a genre definitely came after punk though!

[@Weebslayer13]

@@pinkldy101 punk started in the 70s and goth was the 80s, its very easy to google this stuff.

[@pinkldy101]

@@Weebslayer13 it’s very easy to read what I wrote… I wasn’t saying it didn’t. Just that goth aesthetics existed before that.

[@angelbunny__]

after this ep i really wish they’d do a deeper dive into childish/kawaii aesthetics cuz i feel like theyre percieving it as super sexual when (imo) its usually not meant to be at all. ive always been into anime and cutesy type things and its never transferred over to my sexuality

[@aspannas]

yeah I find that often they'll comment on a topic fleetingly and 90% of the time it's simply wrong, I wish they would at least google the things in the episode if they're not well versed into the topic

[@janes8714]

@@aspannas yes even the comments about the bubonic plague were just untrue

[@a1yssaa]

Have u ever watched anime? 😂

[@angelbunny__]

@@a1yssaa lol i know that some anime can be super sexual or have those moe elements or whatever and the lolita character in like harem anime is super weird (but japanese lolita Fashion is a whole different thing). but theres a lot of cute and comedic anime thats completely non-sexual. i don’t think liking cute anime has anything to do with sex? idk what u really meant by this but..

[@artsyvidsy5232]

So the way baby-core has been described to me is that the person wants to be cared for. For whatever reason they find the world too harsh/mean/hard and want to be able to live for a few moments in innocence with someone they trust to take care of them.

[@lilliputianhitcher3808]

i have been making my way through the LDR discog because i had only heard Born To Die and i’m really appreciating the growth of her character in the songs, and also the eras her albums are framed around is really a treat

[@shaypaye]

When meech first started his hoodie business thing it was the help people who self harm remind them selves that : you matter. On the sleeves it says even when I think I’m weak I’m strong or something like that. I bought 2 and they were shipped out at a decent time considering in the beginning he packaged and shipped it himself with the help of a couple friends and he gets A LOT of orders. I love the message but it’s definitely capitalizing off of mental illness m/self harm

[@laceym1226]

Me screaming PAISLEY! at the phone knowing damn well you cannot hear me 🤣💖👏

[@bluecola9673]

I love you guys but prepare for the storm of Lolitas correcting you hahhaa. Lolita fashion is a Japanese subculture based on the fashion of the rococo time period. It’s about elegance and the style is by nature very conservative. Everyone hears Lolita fashion and thinks it’s related to p*philia but it is not! Some people use the term to describe a “nymphete-like” style based off of the book but that is absolutely not what the subculture is about. Lolita is super expensive too especially if you don’t live in Japan so the average person that says they’re in Lolita isn’t truly wearing it. I love you guys and the podcast just clearing it up 🖤🖤🖤🖤hopefully u don’t get angry comments about this lolol

[@ositaiza888]

a youtuber i watch was gonna post a controversial vid so she decided to post a "trying lolita fashion for the first time" the week after and got more hate bc she did kawaii more than acc lolita

[@Rosyraye11037]

11:50 Lolita fashion is not dressing like a little girl it’s a fashion based on Victorian and rococo era dresses!!!! It actually has nothing to do with the Lolita book or movie and it’s a common misconception that it does!!!!

[@deli8581]

I immediately took the core quiz and mine was also spot on. they’re onto something

[@tobymyers8755]

do you have the link?

[@mijiah]

11:55 - about the “dressing like a little girl” thing of lolita fashion. it actually has very very little to do with the story of lolita, that’s loli characters. lolita fashion is inspired by edwardian/victorian upperclass fashions but make it even more over the top and feminine. it’s a celebration of hyper-femininity, most lolita girls dress up to mimic porcelain dolls and those sorts of artisan objects. the style is about elegance but also being as campy and over the top as you want. for me, it’s almost a sort of age regression where i’m allowed to wear pretty dresses and bows and put on campy makeup and play dress up. i’m a big girl and i’ve always been overweight, so having a space where that is not only accepted but seen as equally beautiful as skinny people is really comforting. plus, it’s fun to escape our scary and overwhelming world and just dress up and have a tea party with your friends. :)

[@moonlightrimes]

LMAO THE “ITS ONLY ONE GUY” JOKE IS ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS BECAUSE ITS TRUE us edm fans always be saying that to people who don’t normally listen to edm artists 💀😭😂

[@ChronicaErys]

I litteraly love Stanley's comments, I always almost die laughing

[@maddiezapss]

I was listening to this episode on my walk across campus yesterday, and people literally turned and stared at me from how hard I was laughing when they said what cores they got

[@Hesstiia]

guys u can't just say lolita is dressing like a child and inspired by the book LOL it's not at all and has nooothing to do with it. it's fully inspired by victorian fashion

[@jiggly-puffy]

Rococo fashion

[@Hesstiia]

@@jiggly-puffy yeah both

[@ClaytonGoldhawk]

Did not expect Britany to like Hyperpop and mention SOPHIE! Makes me so happy that she does though 😊

[@CaptainOfTheMermaids]

This is probably my favorite episode first off. Also, I remember different colored 'silly bands' as meaning different sexual things like "this color means kissing, this color means oral" etc., and if someone broke that color of silly band, it was the thing you were supposed to do together 👀

[@Dead_Moth]

To explain why goths dislike E-girls you have to remember that goth is a music based subculture with a long and rich history. The looks of gothic fashion is secondary, if you listen to gothic music you are goth no matter what you dress like. However at the peak of 2018-2019 E-girls were calling their fashion goth without knowing anything about what being goth means. Being goth isn't wearing lots of eyeliner and blush its a music form and a lifestyle choice. As anything women do in the internet, E-girl fashion became heavily sexulised and due to the close association of the gothic subculture people who participated in the fashion became seen as sex objects and not as a people. Hence the 'big tiddy goth girl' trope that has become popular in the last year

[@Dead_Moth]

Nobody will dispute that E-girls are not in the alternative subculture but many people dislike when they claimed they are goth because they like wearing black without participating in the thing that defines the goth subculture - the music

[@SamK31]

Fun fact, it’s a common misconception that people all died young back then. Dead in your thirties was an average reached between how many infant deaths there were vs those born and survived.

[@CassadillaPerry]

I would legit pay so much money for bonus episodes the way tmg has

[@goo6763]

The fashion styles that romanticise/fetishise lolita (the book) would actually be "coquette" or "nymphet" (this isn't to say that all of those who dress this way do that) ..not lolita fashion!

[@chloeslayy3721]

i am part of the coquette community and we definitely don’t romanticize or fetishize the book or movie. while the aesthetic of the movie (hair, clothes,etc.) is something we do use as inspo the everything else about the movie is disgusting and we absolutely do not support it

[@goo6763]

@@chloeslayy3721 i appreciate your reply and the aesthetic is so pretty! I made my comment because the coquette community does have this problem and i found it interesting how they spoke about lolita fashion so wrong when coquette/nymphet was right there and more like what they described - not to say that it's about that or that all people who like coquette behave that way.

[@haileyvines9171]

On the bubonic plague topic, the herbs were also there bc the doctors thought the air was why people were gettin the disease, they called it “bad air” and they thought flowers and good smells would sorta cancel out the “bad air”

[@rottenbun666]

petition for me to be a guest on vcg so i can tell them when they're wrong about video games and lolita

[@witchingbrew3]

Behind you on this petition.

[@NotACaterpillar]

Mission accomplished everyone, we have a successful upload on our hands 💪👏

[@jayroc62]

The choice to talk about unwashed-ness and the black plague as a side tangent in this episode is very funny to me

[@Star-rz5xo]

“Damaged and we can’t skate board :( “ LMAOOOO

[@junibeeb]

i feel the gastroenterologist struggle!!! i made an appointment in late may-early june and my appointment is mid october. hoping it goes well for us, ibs is killing me

[@idab6864]

It's so funny Brittany is like 'i got IBS' ma'am what you have is low grade alcoholism and a tendency to eat like shit!

[@Amers425]

When Brittany said 1981…that’s my birth year. 🤣🤣😭

[@pearsfears]

pirate core is so perfect for sarah i love it

[@goo3168]

“Possibly with the help of a rodent companion.” Brittany: A DOG.

[@sleepycadaver9556]

Not them thinking Lolita fashion and the book have anything to do with each other 😭

[@crochetyoustay]

unrelated to the podcast but @ Brittany u mentioned being on a waitlist for a gastronbterolgist - usually IBS results from food sensitivities. See if you can book with a bioenergetics-certified nutritionist, they can not only determine all of the sensitivities you have but they can also help your body stop recognizing those things as hazards! and usually a shorter wait time ;)

[@alittlebitofjoy42]

for lolita fashion, which is a form of feminist resistance originating in japan i believe, it almost feels like the women took the infantilisation they were experiencing in society and cranked it up to a level that was no longer appealing to the male gaze. its super fun and intricate i think

[@elliottsalibi]

stanley’s comments truly carry every video they’re always so out of pocket

[@kaitiemoxness3232]

Excellent Ive been refreshing the page for 2 hours now SLAY

[@joenathanhoagland3532]

Sarah was ON A ROLL making Brittany laugh. GREAT episode yall

[@Kagimine]

Lolita fashion isn’t the same as the Lolita book!! The fashion is about rejecting the male gaze and dressing for yourself

[@Sionnachuigim]

Yea but then they wear little girl clothes and play to male pred fantasys

[@GigiofGigi]

@@Sionnachuigim they don’t play into it, the men sexualize it, they’re dressing up in frilly doll dresses because they want to

[@stardust3176]

Lolita fashion is meant to be campy. You look more like a Victorian doll than a child. Why are people pedojacketing

[@stardust3176]

@@Sionnachuigim first, way to victim blame. And second, lolita fashion has NOTHING to do with age play shit.

[@stardust3176]

@@sweetembrace6706 you have literally no knowledge of lolita fashion and the community.

[@soaphi7069]

Had this on in the background and when I tell u my head WHIPPED around when I heard corpse LMAOO

[@dirtyyrat]

A little correction on the goth being the blueprint of all alternative things: goth is also known as post-punk. And punk is punk-rock. So technically rock is the real blueprint for all the alternative genres of music. Now when it comes to style, yes goth is definitely the inspiration of all styles that include all-black outfits. But it's also very important to know that goth is a music based subculture and alternative subcultures are also heavely political (more specifically the, as we say, "darkly incliend" subcultures (aka subc. that are expressed through all-black clothing). I also wouldn't call eboys/girls "alternative". They just wear black fits and ugly plastic jewlery lmao. Anyway love the pod

[@emlygunls]

Pirate core: “yoURE ONE OF THEM QUÉRS”

[@ctxo948]

i’m still surprised brittany doesn’t have an elvis sticker yet LMAO

[@erinkelly2958]

the sound that left my body when i realized there was a new episode out omg i love you both ❤

[@KoraWade]

Goth is a music based subculture where as e-girls/boys is not. E-people like to claim their goth/emo and that leaves a bad taste in actual alt people's mouth's because they claim to be apart of a music based subculture, but they don't even listen to the music! Imagine being goth, listening to actual goth music, and some kid comes over to you and say's "no way you're a goth too!? My favourite goth artists are lil peep and the 1975! What's yours?" Like, no. Learn history, and what the subculture is actuually all about, because that's how you end up with nazi "punks", people not looking anything up.

[@kelseyroy8280]

please tell me i’m not the only one who immediately typed in “what core am i quiz” into google and did it with them

[@oh.hey.its.taylor]

brittany says she doesn’t always fit into one aesthetic, but the truth is she’s her own aesthetic it’s BROSKICORE

[@bambaolina]

i love this podcast sm! i think it would be even better if the fact checking was a little more thorough. not just calling out this video, but a lot of past videos have had similar issues with fact checking. incorrect info and misinformation can turn a really great idea for an episode into a frustrating experience for the viewer. I also think you both really shine when you’re talking about something you’re really well versed in, or more humorous subjects that don’t suffer as much if they’re poorly researched. love you brittany and sarah! keep up the good work!

[@aspannas]

I completely agree, I just commented the same thing!

[@rmgqwzxiytfj]

"Cyber goth witchcore." I'm dead. 💀