Virginian 2 10 10 2 Double Decapod Breakdown

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

These things are so grossly underrated and overlooked.

[@lyedavide]

These were probably the most powerful steam locomotives ever built and used. It's a pity that none escaped the scrapyard. They did have quite a long service life which is testament to their ability to haul heavy trains without double heading.

[@commissarcarl1700]

Horsepower gang here, to use the Virginian as the best example of why HP trumps tractive effort. The Virginian had the tractive effort GOAT (this) and the HP GOAT (the AG Blue Ridge, a clone of the Allegheny) do the same work on the same subdivision, the 243 miles from Roanoke to Norfolk. Going at 8 MPH the AE could take 17,000 tons of coal that distance in about 30 hours without stopping (based on the 8 MPH to keep the boiler pressure up in the vid). The Blue Ridge could take 13500 tons the distance in 12 hours, including stops. This equates to the AG pulling double the coal in the same amount of time as the AE in the best case scenario. Tractive effort only matters at the start, after that it is all about HP.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Hey Carl... You wouldn't happen to have the actual HP output on the AE would you? Someone asked below. I guessed between 4500 and 5000 based on the Boiler pressure. I didnt have a credible source for that for the video either. But OMG, otherwise I'd been blasted in the past for stating what you just did.. LOL.. But Im glad im not the only one who feels that way.

[@machinist1879]

Allow me to explain why tractive effort matters even after the start. When I dispatched trains over Elkhorn Grade occasionally we would have a local crew run lite to the bottom of the mountain and work a mine operation in shifter service. Sometimes after the work was completed we would have the crew run a cut of loads to Flat Top Yard to stage for filler coal for another train later. A pair of GE Dash 944CW's could climb Elkhorn Grade with about 50 loads (about 6,800 gross tons up a 1.4% ruling grade). A pair of ES44ACH's could climb the same grade with 70 loads (about 9,700 tons up a 1.4% grade). Both sets of locomotives are rated at 8,800 horsepower, but the AC's maintain a higher tractive effort and are able to move a heavier load. The Dash 944CW was rated at about 109,000 lbs tractive effort per unit and the ES44ACH was rated at about 155,000 lbs tractive effort per unit. Cheers Guys!👍

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

@@machinist1879 Oh I know it's the meal deal combo at McDonalds rather than just the burger when it comes to locomotives. I got ripped for suggesting HP was as big as tractive. Really it's four main factors.. HP, TE, Adhesion weight and Ratio.

[@machinist1879]

Thanks for another cool video! The climb out of Elmore Yard (Mullens) to Clarks Gap is indeed a tough one. At one time I dispatched this territory. It would take 6 Dash 9-44CW's to move 100 coal loads up the grade (3 on the head end and 3 pushing). About halfway between Herndon and Clarks Gap was Micajah Tunnel. For some reason if a train was going to have trouble climbing the grade it seemed to show up around Micajah. The local train crews pronounced it "Muh-Kay-Jee". That doesn't sound like a bad name for a big burly 2-10-10-2!

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Thanks for the pronunciation.. I would have screwed that up for sure! Not a bad name at all for any of the later articulated Super Powered loco's as well. Im surprised one of them didnt get that name.

[@poowg2657]

Simply gorgeous massive beasts.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Yes they are!

[@dockshund5916]

I like the picture of the guys relaxing in the cylinders.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

I thought that was pretty cool myself.

[@Caje-zf8md]

It's truly a shame that none were saved for posterity while other railroads may have kept up to three or more of their locomotives. As always, thank you for sharing this video.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

I agree with you

[@dustin_4501]

Not much of a surprise Virginian Railroad scrapped every steam engine they had, except a 0-6-0 switcher.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

@@dustin_4501 For sure, that was a pretty common thing with most of the railroads whether it was well thought out or not.

[@dustin_4501]

@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Is like everyone bashing on the NYC for scrapping their steam engines, but so did everyone too.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

@@dustin_4501 Well, a Niagara and one of the Hudson's probably should have been saved seeing how they were doing record level service on the NYC to Chicago runs. But yeah, several models should have been saved as well from the other railroads.

[@duanejones2410]

Great video, and what a pleasure to hear the designers name (Mallet) properly pronounced.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

I appreciate that.. But I am also very annoyed by your persistence with that narrative. Especially after I have explained now countless times of why that is with me. And especially since I wasn't that far off to a point that no one even mentioned it.. except YOU. So it's up to you on what you want to say from here on out. But I am letting you know, politely.. That I am not going to be tolerating those kinds of comments going forward. They will be removed and noted who wrote it by me. And if I have to take further action, I will. This is not up for discussion.. Again, thank you for the compliment part of it.

[@dustin_4501]

I would love someone to build a replica of them, of course, just for static display, i mean you don't see a 2-10-10-2 every day.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

It would be cool!

[@RobertSwickard-o1w]

In brass models in HO scale New Jersey Custom Brass imported a real good model (( LOOK WISE )) but a crappy runner in HO SCALE in the late 1970's and early 1980's but they go for at least $1600 .... Key Imports imported some from Korea in the middle 1990's ... If you can find one (( Less than 30 made )) Expect to spend as much as a good used automobile ...........

[@williamclarke4510]

Didn't one of these locomotives have a boiler explosion in Bedford County ?

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Shhhh! (Yes)

[@davidl.miller8168]

What a beast of a locomotive. It is a shame one is not preserved

[@alanabyss9246]

Woah that thing is huge

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

It was definitely one of the bigger loco's to ever hit the tracks.

[@gregrowe1168]

That’s what she said.

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

A lot of people overlook the Virginian, and a lot of people assume it was insignificant or simply unimportant given its location of operation and main commodity being coal and not having fancy passenger trains or fast priority freights, however it was the best most experienced and frankly most efficient coal hauling railroad in the entire world even today in the modern era, its nickname was the “Conveyor Belt” for its continuous coal movements to the ports and it was really a modern technologically superior railroad compared to its rivals. Electrified mainline, and complex compound steam locomotives, with the modern even by today’s standard 150T battleship coal gondola. It’s quite a shame the lack of respect Norfolk Southern has shown to the old VGN knocking down every standing remnant and ruin, the entire massive shop structure at Mullens was wrecked by NS contractors and the site bulldozed, Elmore yard just looks like a featureless tangle of steel rail. I grew up on a branch line of the old VGN along a creek where the VGN and C&O crammed their rails onto the opposite banks of each other. I have a great love of the Virginian in retrospect as I wasn’t alive to witness it in its golden years.

[@obsessivecorvid]

I love how the VGN went straight to buying ten 2-10-10-2s (AE class) after buying 12 2-6-6-0s (AA and AC classes) and 7 2-8-8-2s (AB class).

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

They were Mikey from the Old Life Cereal commercials... They tried everything it seems.

[@obsessivecorvid]

@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower it was simply the logical step up

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

Then it got ahold of the 2-6-6-6 Blue Ridges after a C&O executive jumped ship and gave VGN the specs on the Alleghenies. 😂

[@Tom-Lahaye]

Those LP cylinders are huge, I noticed that the bores are wider than the piece of metal joining them in the middle. Wonder how a piston that size could withstand the force on them in single operation. The boiler is also of an odd design, the fire grate is at the same level as the underside of the boiler barrel, I suggest there would be a firebrick wall at the end of the fire grate with a combustion chamber behind?

[@mountainman0]

yes - they were fitted with the patented Gaines firewall system in the firebox. and it is scary to think that every time one of the LP cylinders was used in simple that it created a force of 176 tons on the front face of the piston.

[@tidepoolclipper8657]

Like the Santa Fe 3000, they both look cool. However, the Santa Fe counterpart was really only cool in terms of looks. At least this Virginian design was actually kinda cool in regards to what it could do.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

That and it worked and was among the most powerful ever built.

[@victorcontreras3368]

Such a shame that not even ONE was spared for future education! I actually like the way it looks even better than the Big Boy.. The protruding front end looks mean. I'm going to buy a model of one of these!

[@greatnorthernn-3154]

Interesting video! This engine was definitely the king of the hill in the early compound articulated pusher class. The 8 mph boiler capacity restraints would definitely limit it's overall usefulness. I'm wondering if the front engine was prone to slip on startup as it was massively over cylindered for live steam use.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Indeed!

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

In the business of hauling coal, especially in those days it wasn’t about speed it was about how much you could haul in one trip, hence why the Virginian had the largest fleet of 6 axle “battleship gondolas” that could hold 150T. Didn’t really matter that the mallets were slow in that type of operation, certainly on other lines with both freight and passenger it could present a schedule issue but the VGN was primarily all coal almost 90% of the time with no passenger trains other than some 2 car “commuter” style trains that often were tacked onto the rear of local freights

[@victorcontreras3368]

Man, what a locomotive!

[@DMIRyellowstoneFan]

I wish atleast one was preserved. I AM BEGGING THE PAST FROM THE FUTURE!

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

I wish the electrified shops in Mullens was preserved and turned into a Virginian museum *glares at Norfolk Southern So much of the VGN has been erased, I’ve not even found a discarded tie plate with Virginian markings while scouring along its branch lines. Found some rail still in use that was dated from 1958 and was marked N&W rail that is older than the merge of N&W and the Virginian 😂

[@johnknippenberg-LandmarkYards]

Awesome locomotive, thanks for the information and video.

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

You bet

[@glorialotz3333]

Great informative video! Thanks!

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

Aren't the N&W Y6s also Mallets?

[@machinist1879]

Yes, any articulated steam engine that uses compound steam expansion could be considered a mallet.

[@simonmcowan6874]

Are there any models for my model railroad available?

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

That I do not know. Hopefully one of the viewers here can give you that info.

[@mountainman0]

MTH - I think it was did one in O scale around 20-25 years ago now. Otherwise if you want one in HO scale you need to search the 2nd hand brass loco market as one of the japanese companies made a run of them back in the 60's - usually sell in the mid to high 2k though.

[@simonmcowan6874]

@@mountainman0 yup, see those on Brass Trains, into the UK there is an import tax payable too, on one I bought for £250 had £70 tax to pay.

[@PatrioticCoservativeAmerican]

Do we know how much hp they had, was it stronger than the Big Boy?

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

I do not have creditable information on the Drawbar HP or the HP output of this locomotive. However, The Big Boy and the Allegheny were two of the most powerful locomotives ever built in regards to that metric. So I highly doubt that this Virginian approached that level of Horsepower. Based on the boiler pressure of 215 psi. I would guess the HP output to be in 4500-5000 range. If anyone has a creditable number for these, feel more than welcome to chime in.

[@williamgilroy5212]

at 3:40 there is a book or railway journal article but i can't make out the publication. what is it? thanks@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower

[@commissarcarl1700]

looks like Scientific American @@williamgilroy5212

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/locos-vgn-ae/vgn-classae_scientificamerican.jpg

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

it was.. us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/locos-vgn-ae/vgn-classae_scientificamerican.jpg

[@Chewie_0007]

Excuse me but I live one minute from Elmore and lived in mullens for most my life so far, so to say I was flabbergasted when he said Elmore, mullens, and Clark's Gap is an absolute underestimate

[@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower]

Have you read the publications? They say what I said. It's multiple sources. So... being that you live around there, you say what you say.. But offer nothing otherwise. Care to share?

[@Chewie_0007]

@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower And the company store here just recently got bought and hopefully the new owners put some actual history in it about the railroad and it's use

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

@@Chewie_0007you mean the Itmann Company Store?

[@gregrowe1168]

I guess it was just ahead of its time. Railroads weren’t ready for this giant. Tunnels probably weren’t wide enough, same for bridges. Not only incapable of negotiating tight curves, probably too much overhang and might collide with another train on parallel track.

[@mountainman0]

the Virginian railway was actually built with the most generous loading gauge in the steam age and that when modern double stack container cars were introduced to run over the line that they didn't have to do anything other than make sure that the tracks were still central in the bore of the tunnels. the locos were actually delivered to the railway from the alco works in 5 pieces and were then assembled in the virginians own shop. but even crazier is that if you took out each of boiler and were left with just the boiler barrel, one of the London tube trains that run on the older lines are actually small enough that they could be run through it as it the boiler and tube are both the same internal diameter.