Vive Pro vs Valve Index

[@BenPlaysVR]

To further clarify a few points, because I think there's some misconceptions in the comments: 1. The contrast comparison (and in fact all the footage) was recorded and displayed by me, and not provided by any company. The contrast example I made to show how it felt to me subjectively in dark scenes. In hindsight, I should have showed more examples in bright scenes for more variety of image comparisons, instead of just dark scenes. To show that the Index looks spectacular most of the time. But I stand by what I said in the video: Dark scenes have a visible difference between OLED and LCD displays. 2. I did neglect to include the frame rate upgrade that the Index provides. In my original Index review I wasn't able to achieve good enough performance on my PC to experience the higher frame rates → kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJ-yfXyOlpmXeKM, so I don't have any personal experience seeing a difference there. 3. In the end I think the Index is obviously the overall winner. At 11:36 the Index won 4 categories compared to the Pro winning 2 categories. Just because the Pro has 2 good points doesn't make it the overall winner. Thanks for watching!!

[@IQuickscopeCA]

Cant handle 90hz personally, shame I can't get my 120 on OLED due to hardware limitation

[@andreasfriedel1766]

It is clear that the index is winning, after all it is a whole generation between these two. At the time, I only had the choice between Vive and Vive Pro, so I chose the Pro. I'm happy with it.

[@lordzeuscannon6400]

Tbh the display is the only thing that matters for VR. So the Vive Pro is the winner for best high end VR (that people can afford) theres another one but it costs $5,000 and it's obviously the best but not consumer grade

[@Tom--Ace]

@@lordzeuscannon6400 not true. The vive pro is basically the same display as the Samsung odyssey+, but the odyssey+ is better because it eliminates the SDE. I had one and it was awesome But even better than that, the HP reverb is unsurpassed in resolution, and clearly a step up. I'd say the reverb is the best

[@DoomOfConviction]

Overall the first fair review I found on the vive pro. In german you got just a few reviews and the top ones are from 2018 and clickbait with "it's a theft" In the title because you couldn't buy a full kit back than...I want to buy my first VR headset just for Flight sims and need very nice tracking and won't achieve over 90 fps with all maxed out in my go to game anyway (and this with a 3500€PC....) + I will keep use my audio headset so I think it's not worth to wait 2 Month just to order a valve index and stick to the vive pro in 2020 or what's your thought on that?

[@OverBanned]

11:35 conclusion

[@ninnn3025]

You are a good man. Thank you.

[@redmemoryy]

You are a bad man. Thank you.

[@cutthegrass_yt]

You are a man. Thank.

[@noahlambert9953]

Are man you thank.

[@aqosyt9863]

Mmmmmm

[@WhiskeyPhysics]

720p my old friend we meet again..

[@TheTibor95]

Was thinking my connection was too unstable for higher res for the first few seconds

[@rainbowcatycat2072]

I mean... I can barely watch on 480p xd

[@blackBrad18]

@@rainbowcatycat2072 480p the good old days.

[@rainbowcatycat2072]

Xezbeth ikr? xD

[@vanishedidk4266]

144

[@gimmesalt2430]

holy shit the microphone from the index is impressive...holy...well i guess the important stuff like field of view wins the index but a OLED Screen is something you may miss if its gone.

[@Lonech]

I'm just hoping Valve gets to announcing a revision soon.

[@toastee4022]

imo an OLED screen and LCD screen are both good. OLED has better colors but more screen door effect than an LCD, and the colors on LCDs aren't that bad so I'd say the trade-off is worth it for both

[@tomstacey1103]

@@Lonech Just so you know this guys put a grey filter on the index footage hence the sponsor

[@ExergameStation]

I want a pro and i have an index

[@tomstacey1103]

@@ExergameStation Trust me you dont.. I have an index and used to have a pro and the index is by far better the blacks on vive pro are better but not astronomically better and everything else is far worse. Uncomfortable, low fov, high input lag, low refresh rate, bad audio and worse lenses that are much less clear and more blurry.

[@spectrex709]

Great comparison in general. I believe the refresh rate comparison was missed. Constructive feedback. But great coverage in general

[@devindykstra]

I think the reason why he never covered it was because he can't tell a difference between 90 and 120Hz, he said so in his index review.

[@goku0910]

In his Index review, he tries to cover it but I don't think he is able to hit 120hz with his rig and thats why he doesn't see the difference.

[@spectrex709]

@@devindykstra I switched from the vive pro wireless to valve Index. The higher refresh rate is pretty noticeable especially in anything involving fast movement. For example, I noticed it a lot in beat Saber and in fact it makes you a better player. I pretty well beat all my scores in the first try switching to valve Index. It seems you mind can register the blocks much better with the higher refresh rate. I really do miss the wireless feature on vive pro... I sold my vive pro since switching and now need to sell off my wireless adapter. I wish it was compatible with the valve Index :(

[@rohanmudumba2545]

@@goku0910 hes got a 1080ti. he can hit 144 if he wanted

[@jay-1172]

@@rohanmudumba2545 hahaha nah, I got a 1080ti and 144h is really hard to hit unless you lower the resolution. It also depends on the game

[@lojanoftheshire6795]

The gray filter you put on the Index footage is RIDICULOUS. But the rest of the video is pretty accurate.

[@joman66]

Agreed! I's crummy but I believe HTC gave the reviewer all the 'ingame' footage to do the review. Not accurate at all.

[@Moorgoth67]

the gray filter was ridiculous, I have an Index, nothing looks as bad as that filtered comparison did

[@topshelfgaming9093]

but in comparison to the Vive Pro...or original Vive...that was widely known already that going from an OLED display to LCD the colors like Reds/Yellows/Blacks would be more vibrant on OLED over LCD.....so he's not really lying at all to make the Vive Pro better in that regard towards color contrast...its just the truth!? blacks are deeper on an OLED...same debate back in the day with Plasma! it also had deeper color ratios as well.. in all i would pick the index over the Vive pro..but man, credit where its due the guy did a decent comparison of both!

[@lojanoftheshire6795]

@@topshelfgaming9093 I agree that the OLED would show colors better. But the LCD also does it perfectly fine, and that gray filter on the Index's side doesnt remotely compare to what it actually looks like at all. Its extremely misleading to do so, and if you're going to put false footage in your video, you might aswell not show that footage at all.

[@topshelfgaming9093]

@@lojanoftheshire6795 ya i can agree to that! i was gonna say Oculus Rift S looks better than that, i wonder if it was just really bad B roll footage used? because i know for a fact the Vive and Vive Pro having those oled displays do look deeper in the color department, but you'd never notice it really unless you had a ton of hours in a VR game you know and tested them side by side! I hands down would go for the Index over the Pro regardless any day of the week!

[@toastee4022]

overall a pretty good comparison but I've got a couple of issues with it. 1. you didn't mention the benefits of the LCD screen, having much less screen door effect at the cost of slightly worse contrast, meaning you get a sharper image, which is a good trade-off imo. 2. you also didn't mention the much, much higher refresh rate of the index, being able to go up to 120hz or an experimental 144hz mode. 3. the index has a few small hardware things to it, such as an insert for smaller heads, and that front trunk thing with a USB port which opens up a lot of modding possibilities from third parties or valve themselves, such as wireless adapters. overall pretty good comparison, just wanted to point these things out for anyone who's still deciding. really the only reason to go with the vive pro is if you can't live without the colors from an OLED screen, or if you really want that wireless adapter, although you're paying at least 100 dollars more for just the HMD and wireless adapter, paying 400 more if you want the headset with old Vive controllers and base stations, and paying 600 more if you want the 2.0 base stations and new controllers. it really isnt worth it imo, the pro is very obviously aimed at businesses which seems to be HTCs main market right now, while the index is meant for consumer VR.

[@lojanoftheshire6795]

Very true, awesome comment.

[@potatofuryy]

Well, a problem i have with the video is that it’s a sponsored review...

[@jackm9737]

You like index more, don’t you?

[@toastee4022]

@@jackm9737 yeah how'd you know

[@ExecutionerDan]

I think I'll go with a pimax 8kx when I have the money. Yeah it's an lcd but native 4k per eye, and 170 degree horizontal fov is just scrumptious. I heard at 1440p upscaled to 4k on the 8kx will allow either 110hz or 120hz according to pimax employees at CES.

[@zzzzzzzzzzz6]

I absolutely agree with you on the contrast.. that's the only reason I still use a Vive Pro.. most people don't care but I just need the color

[@xandersore3442]

I think the vive pro + wireless adapter + index controllers is a great combo cause you have OLED, 90hz, a pretty high resolution, and Wireless support.

[@cheatingthesystem21]

Was definitely expecting to see some mention of panel refresh rate, as that's a key feature for the Index. Not mentioning it seems like an unfair balance against the Vive PRO locked to 90hz

[@LonSeidman]

I started with the OG Vive and bought the Index. I returned the Index and bought the Vive Pro when it was on sale for Prime Day. I'm much happier with the Pro. No matter how I adjusted the Index I was getting a "jelly vision" effect that would not go away. I do miss the field of view on the Index but the image quality is better out of the Pro's OLEDs. The Index has a frame rate advantage but getting 120 or 144fps is just not realistic given the current state of GPUs IMHO. For audio I removed the included headset and used my own headphones with an adapter.

[@jaybee0507]

Lon.TV, How so? I am having no problems running 100 fps with my 3440x1440 monitor. More like the problem is it’s limited to only 100hz. They are selling 4k 144hz monitors, so i don’t understand why these vr resolutions would be hard to run? Are vr games mostly more taxing, badly optimized or why are you saying that?

[@isaacstoltz9776]

@@PunMister But the index can be run fine on a 980 ti usually. A gtx 1070 ti/amd vega 56 or better should run it perfectly fine

[@benkahn5063]

This comment didn't age well

[@MsEddiepark]

@@benkahn5063 No, it did. You can also change the lenses of the vive pro to get rid of godrays and get much larger sweetspot.

[@benkahn5063]

@@MsEddiepark i was talking about the gpu comment but ok

[@wmx99]

The waterproof VR covers for Vive Pro are thin and bring the lens very close to your eyes. Makes FOV appear larger too

[@Skeeva007]

Great video, Ben! My favorite part of my Valve Index is that buttery smooth 120/144hz refresh rate! It really adds to the overall immersion.

[@shaneheimanjr9178]

I wish that was in the review. Refresh absolutely beats OLED for me

[@ShmeatPacker]

The only VR headset I've ever owned was the PSVR. It's a lotta fun, but I missed out on so many great games. Since I made good deployment money I figured I'd treat myself to a new beast of a computer and a Valve Index. This video really helped me choose between the Vive Pro and the Index. Thanks!

[@shashumga6766]

Same for me

[@Ruby_Mochii]

I didn't purposely purchased a mid high end PC for VR but it had the ability to, I even sometimes though it's not enough. The only trade off is that a PC set up like that would cost over $2k without peripherals with just a built pc and index. If you also want a high res, high refresh monitor, that would add up too. I don't want to calculate and know how much I paid for my whole pc setup and index altogether. It would dam hurt, but i know roughly it is, a lot.

[@farleftsilencelikenazis1021]

Good choice. Look I have the pro and going back to to an index display would be a a bummer, esp playing saint's n sinners. BUT if you are are buying 1st time, 100% the index wins as you overall get more bang for your buck. I'm saying that as a vive pro owner. I don't need the mic and use senheiser pxc550 headphones (expensive but better that bose QC35's) for overall choice, again the index the controllers are brill! Happy gaming whatever your rig. The community is about getting the best of what we have.

[@AlexDubois]

I "scratched/blurred" my original Vive with my glasses (which probably have a harder glass) by having them too close to get a better FOV. So be careful and make sure your glasses do not touch the Fresnel lenses.

[@OVERLAPE]

Truly admire and appreciate your sincerity and objectivity with the review!! Wish you great success!

[@DH___]

I appreciate the honesty and depth of this review. I like that you told us what you received from the company’s that’s super cool. An expensive VR headset is a big purchasing decision for a ton of people so thank you 👍🏻

[@SaveItForTheLost]

Understand that going from OLED to LCD means a less pronounced Screen Door effect, due to LCD having RGB sub pixels. It is a toss up and should not count against either headset.

[@5headshot719]

lcd display only decreases sde by a little if you look for it you will see sde, id rather have an oled rather than an lcd

[@AdamsSIMporium]

Ben, you honestly MUST try the Gear VR lens mod in your Pro. For me, it makes the Pro the best HMD by far (I refunded the Index). You can buy the lenses already fitted in the required plastic housing for a small price. This mod increases clarity and almost completely removes all glare and god rays!!! It's a VERY easy mod and takes a few minutes, the lenses just pop out and push back in. I also own the headphones mod you mention, they are good and add a little bass, but nothing game changing. On an audio note, for sim racers like me with a motion platform etc, the Index audio solution was a no go, I could ear the sound of all my kit.

[@ggegguri]

I have the OG Vive with the gear lens mod and I have been waiting a long time to buy a worthy next gen. Were the visuals on the Index not including the blacks clearer or blurrier than the Gear mod?

[@viruthrillhouse9939]

I regretted modifying my og and I reinstalled the original lenses. With those of gear it looks crisp and more sweet spot but generates barrel distortions that I can't tolerate.

[@viruthrillhouse9939]

It doesn't make me dizzy but it affects even the perception of the scale of objects and people

[@AdamsSIMporium]

@@viruthrillhouse9939 That was the old days. Now you don't even need to do any software correction or anything. As long as you have it sat correctly on your face, distortion is no longer an issue. I bought mine from VR Innovations on ETSY.

[@AdamsSIMporium]

@@ggegguri A lot of glare on the Index compared to modded Pro, and I mean a LOT more. But the black levels were the final nail in the coffin.

[@VanBurenOfficial]

Thanks Ben! You're the best VR resource on KZbin!

[@artyboy1377]

I just bought a Vive Pro but what I really wanted was the Index - I had no choice as Valve does not sell the Index in the Asia region (or outside USA at the moment). But it was not the Index's FOV, 144HZ refresh rate or audio which attracted me, it was the fact that it is made by the same people who owns and runs Steam (SteamVR) + their superior controllers. But I found out that the Index controllers are fully compatible with the Vive Pro so that's a consolation. I bought the Vive Pro mainly because of its AMOLED displays. I also realized that a 120/144hz refresh rate doesn't mean a thing if your computer can't run games at that framerate, so I would prefer to max out the details and boost the framerate rather than the other way round. I would still say that the Index is the superior controller irregardless.

[@beyond.7513]

Your review helped me to take my decision, I switched from wireless og VIVE to a wireless Vive Pro, it's spectacular ! Still waiting for my knuckles to arrives tho, I think that it's going to be my dream combo :) Thank you so much

[@farleftsilencelikenazis1021]

Yea the vive ones are ok, I upgraded to knuckles this Christmas.

[@Dingbobber]

Wait what do you mean WIRELESS?

[@RCrider185]

The VivePRO paired with wireless & the index controllers is an amazing experience I must say, once you go wireless there’s no going back to the “ball & chain”I see no need to upgrade for years to come in my opinion... at least until someone builds a HMD with wireless built in, which HTC missed the ball totally on that one with the Cosmos, that option would have set the bar and made all other HMD’s pointless to buy.

[@olivercook873]

rubbish, the cosmos even with wireless would still be shit.

[@Darnelj1]

Vive Pro + Wireless + Knuckles + 2.0 Base Station Tracking. We got peak VR early bro. Gonna take something big to make me want to upgrade.

[@marinfrombratia]

sorry dude, but with that tracking the only thing that would have still be pointless was comos.

[@RCrider185]

Lazaroiu Cristina I agree the cosmos is a bad HMD, no one ever said it was good.

[@grantstolk8696]

I've been waiting for a video comparing these two. This reinforces my contentment with my setup. I have a Vive Pro + Wireless Adapter + Index Controllers. The lack of wireless was the only thing that prevented me from switching to Index. Not bothered by the mild FOV reduction of refresh rate difference anyways. Good to know the Pro display is superior in some ways.

[@farleftsilencelikenazis1021]

what battery time do you get? I am thinking of going wireless too with my pro. I upgraded to the knuckles controllers for HL Alex

[@grantstolk8696]

@@farleftsilencelikenazis1021 If I'm exercising of having short play sessions I think the standard battery pack lasts a couple hours. If I'm having longer play sessions with friends and family I got a 19200mAh batter pack and it lasts around 4 hours on a single charge.

[@farleftsilencelikenazis1021]

@@grantstolk8696 thx a lot for the info. Was the bigger one a retro fit? good to know it's possible for a longer session. HL Alex is really next level VR

[@grantstolk8696]

@@farleftsilencelikenazis1021 the battery packs are external to the headset. You put the battery in your pocket or on your waist with the belt clip and a cable runs from the battery to the headset. I think you can use any QC 2.0 battery pack really.

[@Ad3tr]

I think the 2.0 lighthouses have other benefits like sub milimeter tracking, better at dealing with occlusion, and better at tracking well when you're in "blind sports" where you're 45 degrees to one station. When you say "display," what about pixel response time, subpixel arrangement, frame rate, and so on? I love my Vive's contrast and might bring it our for small horror game, but I've heard that a lot of Vive Pro users are upgrading to the Index and consider the display's benefits to outweigh the darkness contrast. Have you tried the Quest, it has a similar resolution to the Pro in an OLED panel.

[@neurokinetik64ES]

Yeah, the 2.0 tracking is not to be underestimated. It's not just the support for larger spaces. It also gives the ability to use more than two base stations, which can make the tracking flawless in my experience. I'm currently having to use 1.0 base stations and Vive wands because one of my Index controllers broke, and it's a noticeable downgrade. Just holding your controller out and panning around in a circle you can see little glitches when only one base station is visible to the controller. With 2.0 (and three base stations for me), it's perfect.

[@randomlessness]

I added two 1.0 base stations to a 20x20 foot area to try and boost the two 2.0(which were having negligible hmd tracking issues in the middle of the room with hands raised blocking the hmd line of sight, a very specific position discovered while troubleshooting/testing.) The overall system performance decreases with the addition of 1.0 bases. The 2.0 bases work almost 8m away more than double their rated distance. Also thanks Vive for sending me 1.0 bases when I ordered the "required components to maximize" studio workspace lol 1.0 suck

[@McShizzle]

I'm sticking to the og Vive but I am looking into get the index controllers. They seem like a must

[@juliohintze595]

Can you use Index controllers with Vive?

[@skyr3x]

@@juliohintze595 yep, all index items work with vive items. you can use the base stations with a index headset for example

[@McShizzle]

@@juliohintze595 yeah I don't see why not. They are both native to steamvr so.. also he mentions it in the video.

[@devindykstra]

@@skyr3x The only exception to this is the lighthouses, 2.0 lighthouses will not work with the OG vive, but 1.0 lighthouses will work with the Index.

[@skyr3x]

@@devindykstra true

[@pizzyfpv]

Also a tip you can now adjust the Index brightness helps Skyrim some.

[@Toalen]

That's a really great review / comparaison. I love the way you just make so kind of a class, and we're all here to learn. Thanks for the review (rip for the framerates comparaison tho)

[@brooksy2622]

Compare all you like. If you are in the market for a high end VR headset and it’s between these two, there is only one decision! My Index arrives this week, can’t wait.

[@lordzeuscannon6400]

huge tradeoff though. vive pro better screen

[@mumrah07]

I use the Vive pro with Gear Vr lens mod, wireless adapter, with index controllers. To me it's currently the best overall VR experience. If the index gets a wireless solution then I might consider switching but not now. (This coming from an enthusiast where money is not an issue).

[@djingo8253]

Richard Bermudez I wanted an index, but they were sold out with over 8 weeks to order. I got an open box vive pro kit with 2.0 lighthouses, wireless adapter with 2 batteries, and index controllers. Should I sell the vive pro headset, wireless adapter kit, and wands to get the index headset? Or should I just keep what I have going?

[@multireel7590]

If you get a thinner face pad for the Vive Pro, you can get the lenses very close to your eyes to the point where your eye lashes almost touch the lenses. From what I've heard this makes the Field of View comparable to the Index and you get a bigger sweet spot. I also tried the Index Controllers. They are great, but seem to be designed for below average sized hands and were not as comfortable as I hoped them to be. In the end I did return them, also because they had this widespread problem with the thumbstick. And last but not least: The Vive wands are adequate and work fine. So in the end the real benefit of the Index is the higher refresh rate (for as far as that really makes a difference to people) , the tiny bit larger FoV, the lower price and better audio. Drawbacks are: LCD instead of OLED and no wireless option. To me that sounds like the VIve Pro holds up pretty well!

[@multireel7590]

​@@OverbiteGames The Vive Pro after 2 years is still an excellent headset with a field of view almost the same as the Index. So yeah, it still holds up pretty well. Just replace that facepad with a bit thinner one and all is good. Also the OLED panels give real blacks and it has proper lag-free wireless with the adapter. Haven't found a good reason to replace the thing, even after 2 years. I'm amazed because I expected new headsets would make this thing obsolete rather quickly. Let's see what the Index successor brings. If it's wireless + a bit larger field of view + a bit sharper i'll be first in line to get it.

[@josetrigueiro5978]

In the HTC Vive Pro you can increase the field of view by replacing the tick face cushion (15mm) by other more thin (6mm). That way you can have the screens more close to yours eyes, as with the Valve Index. This thin face cushion can be purchased on Amazon. Unfortunately, what he says about the bass problem is true!

[@randyx007]

Or do the lens mod and push the clarity level up and push the lenses out.

[@Jay-Dot]

I really need to order the prescription lenses. I have the same problem with the nose cover and my glasses always get smudged up and bothers me if I'm playing.

[@randyx007]

I have a Vive Pro with wireless attachment, Samsung lens mod, and index controller. Also made a top strap support to take weight off the front of the HMD. Almost done with Half Life Alyx and holy crap I need more games like that. Although that game was meant for VR n00bies it is still great. Wish everyone had my setup. Still need to try the Index but no wifi, I can't do cords anymore.

[@SamAshkon1998]

2.0 lighthouses is not only for increased distance. The wider field of view helps with tracking the controllers, a pretty common problem on the og vive

[@SamChaneyProductions]

Great review, thanks! I'm sure someone will create a wireless kit for the Index soon. All you really need is a small dedicated 5Gz WiFi router, and a small WiFi card/USB+DP adapter to attach to the headset like the TPCast.

[@christrimmer653]

great review sir think my next headset is gonna be an index think the FOV and the controllers make it worth for me personally

[@randyx007]

Wifi. Is a game changer though...

[@zacharyrivenbark1702]

I need the index to be wireless... I dont wanna wait forever :O

[@derekfurst6233]

no you really don't

[@MrRobotman]

You can use a pulley system instead, so that the wires don’t get in the way.

[@MrPaulbaitson]

With the Vive even the Cosmos screen door effect is an issue, with the Vive Cosmos the pixels are smaller but the screen door effect is very much apparent, with the refresh rate of the index it wins hands down.

[@lordzeuscannon6400]

hands down? I don't think so. ive been debating which one of these is an improvement from my Samsung odyssey, and the index's LCD would most likely be a major downgrade.

[@pelle784]

MMMMMMM I JUST WANT AN OLED FOR THE INDEX

[@ogremair803]

N3xus also they need to fix the lens. Too much glare and god rays. Not to mention wireless.

[@stian55]

you'd get alot of screendoor effect with an oled tho.

[@ubrsmcdm]

I recommend trying to shampoo the sponge. I found this helped with the way it felt and I play for many hours at a time now.

[@mustangjack06]

Thank you for the recap at the end. It is simple things like that that make me want to subscribe. Thanks again

[@invincaspartan]

Once you get the wireless adapter there is no going back. Its incredible, although there's some slight mods you need to do to the hardware,if you don't you'll burn the top of your head.

[@angelos.3664]

invincaspartan can you tell what exactly to do to the hardware?

[@fluffybunny3178]

Any worries about cancer with a bulky transmitter sitting on your head ? No one seems to be concerned

[@chainsov]

​@@fluffybunny3178 Why worry about something where there is no scientific proof? If you want to worry about cancer, start with nutrition. btw the transmitter is your pc, the part on your head is the receiver, if its built like TPCast, there is a transmitter for positional data sitting in the battery pack part, and it transmits over wifi frequencies.

[@invincaspartan]

@@angelos.3664 attached it to the deluxe autostrap, with a 2 inch thick foam pad between the adapter and headstrap, along with that I attached the battery pack behind the adapter to remove all wires from my experience.

[@karljuliuz]

@@invincaspartan how's the weight?

[@willspargo1909]

The early statements of this video, of the cosmos soon comming out and possibly being outdated is so wrong now that we know how the cosmos went,

[@jorgmethfessel5774]

the wireless vive pro is awesome, i played also with cable before and it was not a big deal, but wireless games like gorn are so much more fun! also you dont feel any input lags, impressive when you think about how much data is transmitted

[@jorgmethfessel5774]

one drawback i notices about the vive, once there buildt up some moisture inside the headset (from sweating at intense games) there is not other way then pause and try to wipe the lenses, i wish there would be somehow any airflow regulating the humidity

[@iamrocketray]

@@jorgmethfessel5774 You need windscreen wipers.

[@Mr.Grave.]

Holy damn that audio quality comparison is day and night. Thanks for the review. I was wondering if I wanted to get the Index over my Vive Pro but I think I'm fine with sticking with Vive Pro for now until something insane hits the market.

[@draketurcotte4760]

Grayzon timeto start saving up for the Star VR headset. That thing is amazing. Human eye FOV, great eye tracking, foveated rendering. It has it all!

[@cate01a]

I didn't bother watching, but I highly appreciate the disclaimer that you were sponsored by vive pro for this. It means heaps!

[@cate01a]

Oh, actually skipping to the conclusion, I was surprised! This had outta be a great video if you don't mindlessly support the sponsor! Cheers!

[@kappasike]

Valve index display is wider fov, and higher refresh rate also it does not looked that washed out in person.

[@wtfimcrying]

Michael Carroll I had a Vive pro I like the index better tbh

[@TheOriginalNCDV]

Upgraded from my Vive and went for a cheap used Pro and paired it with some Index controllers. No regrets, the display is fantastic!

[@dtz1000]

@ncdv47...You can get the same effect with the Oculus Quest for $1000 less.

[@TheOriginalNCDV]

dtz1000 The Quest is only 72Hz. And inside-out tracking. No thanks.

[@RaptorJesus.]

this isn't a competition, its a curbstomp XD also valve have recently patented an index wireless kit, so we should expect to see that soon(ish) :)

[@shmokeythefatcat]

:/ not yet but quest 2 with virtual desktop is amazing

[@benjaminrasmussen9643]

I have just bought the index so I am happy I picked correctly 😁

[@BenPlaysVR]

Congrats! 🍾🎈🎉

[@glasfoot]

@Vanargand i do not notice the screen door, i had the vive before and this is very clear in comparison. by passthrough do u mean the light that can enter the VR googles around the nose? that is not an issue i have had at all, I dont play them scary and dark games tho. still happy with my glasses tho.

[@glasfoot]

@Vanargand if u take the time to adjust it perfectly to your face it is very clear and much better than my vive. the high framerate i think will help alot in your flight experience, I play car simulators and the 144 hz is really nice. as i understand the index is the most clear and i am sure you will be happy, i have been happy with my purchase of the index.

[@UnrestfulDeath]

I highly urge anyone that uses vr and glasses to go to widmovr, they make prescription lenses that pop over the headsets lens's and they are amazing and a must have. Way better visuals, more comfort, and you don't have to worry about your glasses scratching the headsets original lenses.

[@thezipper359]

I was thinking of bying the valve index but ended up whit the vive pro as the index is not availeble for shiping to my contry sadly :/ Either way im preaty happy whit my pro. Its a verry high qualety headset althog a bit pricy. But from what ive heard the vive pro was not origanly intended for consumers but rather for profesinal use hense the name pro.

[@RedMageGaming]

I would say the Index will have probably slightly better visual than the rift s, and close to the same black levels. since they both are using the same type of screens, that being said I only have the rift s right now, but the black levels on the screens in that are really good. I think your mockup of the black levels between the two headsets is a little too exaggerated. But from everything I've seen, the Index wins hands down, and that is why I've put myself on the waiting list for one, rather than order a vive pro. [ok so the index controllers were a huuuge factor in that as well. I like their design so much more than the vive's, mind you I like the oculus touch controllers more than the vive as well.]

[@hamad-ml1hw]

The best honest review even it sponsored !

[@daniellerosario976]

Vive Pro + Valve Index Controllers + Rubberband = Tie But also, many professors, like car designers, prefer to use the Vive wands. So it depends on what you're doing. Some people prefer the Vive controllers. Depends on the game and what you're using it for.

[@LiamFoot]

If you get a 6mm foam from VRCover, the Vive Pro FOV should very nearly match the Index FOV, and the same applies to the OG Vive. The default Vive foam is excessively thick and is the only reason it loses on FOV. I replaced mine back in 2016 when VRCover came out with the thin ones.

[@christopherblair3667]

1.0 lighthouses have 60hz polling rate and 2.0 have 100hz polling rate. There is actually a significant difference in tracking quality. More noticeable in fast paced games.

[@UstinkOfFea3]

Wireless is a must for me... I want Oculus to release a wireless solution for the Quest Link connection..if the HTC Cosmos was an actually good headset I would get that but I cant do LCD screens at all. . Perfect headset: Resolution like Valve, panels like HTC Pro or Quest, tracking like Quest and WIRELESS to your PC... I wish the Oculus TPCast would work for Quest Link

[@AlexDubois]

Sorry, I have a Vive Pro and can't say from you video if I should invest in an Index. What about the optics? is there more/less artifacts (glare when high contrast). The logo of the Index is focusing on the glass... so... how is the glass of the Index?

[@mikicerise6250]

I play a lot of space games in VR, so sacrificing those OLED blacks... uff... that would be really painful to me. :p I'm jealous of that FOV though.

[@Tom--Ace]

The HP reverb is spectacular in elite and it's lcd. But it's resolution is much higher

[@tiagotiagot]

Don't the 2.0 Lighthouses have improved tracking even in smaller spaces?

[@gotenks0911]

Yes

[@shaneheimanjr9178]

I see these as two different use headsets. Index as a FPS or more rapid response type headset whole the vive pro being more for enjoying slower things like RPG games or just things you want to experience deeper due to the OLED and ability to go wireless. I'm a sucker for OLED but field of view and great audio beat a beautiful screen, but barely

[@abstractfactory8068]

The main problem with valve index is it's lack of availability in most of the world and lack of stock.

[@LimbaZero]

I liked index displays more because less SDE. I also have Vive PRO with lensmod.

[@whydoesgoogleruinyoutube724]

What about the glare? I find the glare/god rays of the Index very immersion-breaking. Vive PRO with lens mod doesn't have that problem.

[@everydaysniper9390]

Now the index is nice, and this is a big problem, but I'm not sure how common it is, but I know someone who had their valve index's audio just completely die, no explanation just no audio, a hardware issue supposedly, which was really the thing that makes me personally prefer the vive pro... But mostly I really, really like nice displays. I have a 4k moniter that I often use, despite the performance issues, because I am just a huge sap for high resolution and accurate color, I once saw a very, very expensive television with the most vibrant colors and I almost came.

[@bupduppers2947]

Ok so about the vibe being able to go wireless, the reason it would be worse for the valve index is because it runs at a higher hertz and refresh rate so it being wireless would slow it down, with the vibe it’s not as advanced in that regard so wireless is fine, the industry has got to find the balance of quality and wireless

[@pizzyfpv]

You didn't mention the optics, you can also use thinner foam to get vive pro closer to eyes, I modded my vive lens and would do that if I get a pro, you also didn't mention the higher hz of the Index. I would tell people get the Index for less dark games and get pro for dark games.

[@FrozenMetroid]

The Vive Pro wins for me because of wireless. I was excited about the Index but no wireless support kills it for me so I didn't get one. I'd be very reluctant to go back to tethered as been wireless makes it more immersive as you're not always stepping over a cable. I had to get the index controllers though as they are so much better than the standard Vive controllers.

[@randyx007]

100% when you go wifi you CANT go back. I have a Pro with wifi, lens mod, and index controllers. Can't play any other form of VR.

[@popnsmoke100]

Im curious how Vive liked your video. Granted it seems un-bias. I think though if Vive would drop their prices a bit they would sell so many VR systems they would corner the market and put everybody else out of business. BUT that would be bad in the end because competition drives ingenuity.

[@Brandman88]

wait is it exaggerated at 6:35 for the index because I was thinking of getting it but if it looks this washed out it seems like it would be unusable.

[@BenPlaysVR]

See my pinned post at the top of the comments 😁

im glad i got the Vive 1.5, right in the middle of quality and performance. Just waiting on Valve to ship it to Norway

[@Atarikidd]

Hello All, I am going to buy a VR Kit or what is the name for all of the things you need to make it work ( thought not sure right now ) about the wireless option. Anyway I need help, I am Very Computer Savvy so that not the problem. Just unsure with VR to go with and as far as the money end I am willing to go around $1,500. So is there a way to research this better, and just looking for others thoughts. And yes my PC is VR ready I checked that part out already. Thanks for any input you give.

[@ChaseFace]

Good video, the Index seems like a winner all-around. The Vive's wireless accessory is overrated as it lasts for 3 hours and then dies with no warning, and Gabe Newell has expressed interest in bringing a similar wireless system to the Index. Not to mention you're adding about $300 to a $1,400 purchase as is, making it nearly $2,000 - double the price of the Index with the same old-fashioned controllers that are pretty shitty for most VR games. The Index controllers are the meta and nobody can tell me otherwise; I refuse to go back to track pads after having two joysticks in VR, it's a no-brainer. The true blacks are definitely a factor but like you said, I don't notice the difference anymore. Surprised Vive would let you give an unbiased opinion, to be honest. If I were them I'd be pissed if I gave someone a $1400 item for free and they said "yeah but it's not as good as their competitor." I think that really speaks to your honesty, most reviewers would be tempted to sell out and say "These guys are paying me, so I agree with whatever they say!"

[@anonymousprimius1747]

I have the Vive wireless with the Vive pro and i dont wont give it away. The freedom without a cable is real VR. Play with your umbilical cord :-) But when you wont real VR then make it wireless!

[@ChaseFace]

@@anonymousprimius1747 Make it last 5 hours and give a heads-up warning and we'll talk. :)

[@anonymousprimius1747]

@@ChaseFace Hehe, second akku, no problem

[@Skepticalloner]

Heh.. I've got the wireless, and bought 3 batteries. That battery crapping out with zero warning is a killer in flight sim games, especially dogfighting in multiplayer. I've died many times because of that crap. That said, all other standing VR games the wireless is awesome.

[@angelos.3664]

No talk about the different between 90mhz to 144mhz display(important for motion sickness)...mhm 🧐

[@BenPlaysVR]

I cover that in my Index review, but basically I don't have a good enough GPU to see the difference → kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJ-yfXyOlpmXeKM

[@olivercook873]

Ben Plays VR it does make difference, the faster frame rate adds to immersion

[@11warum11]

@@BenPlaysVR You still should have mentioned it. The higher refresh rate is one of the reasons why Valve went for an LCD display. You not mentioning this makes it seem as if there were no trade offs between the index and the pro besides FOV...

[@TimothyBrake]

Get vive pro with wireless adapter and the valve index controller! Thank me later 😉

[@Jofan614]

Thats exactly what i.plan on getting when my channel blows up so i can buy

[@flowvr5372]

@@Jofan614 I would go for a Oculus Quest 2 now :-)

[@MrKrusten]

Can you say something about the resolution and the screen-door effect? The reason valve went with LCD is because the screen-door effect is alot less visible with LCD, which makes the image just look sharper in general. Ignoring the better contrast with vives OLED display, what can you say about the image quality and sharpness between the two?

[@IamtheWV17]

A much more interesting discussion in Australia... where the index is a bee-hutch to get access to and costs about 400USD more than the VivePro

[@Robert-hz7ef]

As Valve don’t ship the index, controllers or even base stations to Australia, and the cosmos is such a disappointment, I’ll be investing in the Vive Pro full kit.

[@controllerbrain]

I shipped an Index to Sydney. Not hard but it costs a fair bit.

[@Robert-hz7ef]

Controllerbrain. How Mate, cause on the Steam store it says “not available in your country”?

[@prismglider5922]

@@Robert-hz7ef maybe dont buy from steam? That's why he said it costs a bit more

[@controllerbrain]

@@Robert-hz7ef can you pm on KZbin?

[@ifeelhealu6059]

After all these years, used Vive Pro still can be a good choise, because you can swap it frenel lenses to aspheric pretty easily, and it boosts visual quality drastically. Big sweetspot, no more blur and godrays are gone. Just big clean picture all over the lenses. It looks more clean then even something like the Pico 4 pancake lenses did. And aside that, you still got that bright picture without any type of compression, when all these wifi type of streaming always eat some part of your final image. Sadly, Vive mic is ass, so you need something else to replace it, lol

[@consume_vegetables]

my opinion: vive pro vs the Index is a fair comparison for one reason - base station tracking. inside out tracking just couldn't compete, both accuracy and in pricing (inside out being much cheaper).

[@moncimoov]

6:27 there is no way index have that wash out experience.. this comparison is kinda exaggerated

[@Soldatsky]

i dont know what index hes got but mine is nothing like that, but its a sponsored video so hes getting a free headset

[@Darnelj1]

I wish I could send you my wireless adapter. Wireless PC powered headset is just unmatched.

[@ItsTraviiiii]

Can I have it?

[@Darnelj1]

@@ItsTraviiiii lol Nah man. I just wanted peeps with to talk more about Pro with wireless on KZbin.

[@lolzvendetta9579]

@@Darnelj1 do u use the wireless adapter with an amd cpu by chance?

[@jorisbonson386]

I have both the full Index kit and the og vive with the wireless adapter. I agree, all round wireless is the biggest killer feature - if I could only have one I would STILL stick with the (og!) vive just for that.

[@randyx007]

Wireless Adapter is a must have if your cpu can handle it. I have the Vive pro, w/ wifi, Samsung lens mod, and index controllers. If you can afford that you can't beat that. Now if it only had the 120/144hz.

[@rizdizla]

Thanks for the review. The only reason I didn't get a valve index was the wireless. Once you play PC vr you can never go back to using wired

[@ryc2236]

rizdizla does battery life of wireless bother you at all? / what is the typical battery life?

[@rizdizla]

@@ryc2236 it's about 4 hours when fully charged. Since that's more than a normal playtime it works out nicely. I would definitely recommend getting one

[@HacksAndGlitches]

Gonna wait for valve to release the version 2 with hopes that they will change over to Oled and a wireless adapter

[@randyx007]

It will be much better if they do that. I couldn't decide which headset to get, pro or index. I had the OG Vive, index controllers, and the wireless adapter so I got the Vive. Glad I did. Oled and wifi make up for the refresh rate.

[@zacharyyarost5804]

This is the only compairson video of these units that I care about. Very well done!

[@underflip2]

I wish the index had a OLED display and better lenses. It would basically be the perfect headset.

[@skscotch]

What's wrong with lenses? I'm really curious?

[@nonsuspiciouscolour]

@@skscotch for me it kinda has a fish bowl effect, have you noticed that?

[@bk_Syndicate_FL850KH]

I had a Rift S, I am totally upgrading to the Index

[@faaskee7071]

I used Index. But i used og vive before. There's a Very Huge difference. Index has also a thing that i can't explain what it is. You'll notice it when you wear it

[@Joeeye123]

The most important feature to me in VR is going wireless. For that reason the Vive wins hands down. Can't express how much better the experience is in VR without the cords.

[@OneironauticalOne]

Straight forward no nonsense review. THANKS!

[@xocqr8502]

there's something about that deep blue colour the vive is that just makes me wish i had both

[@Velocity_AU]

Vive wins for me because atleast it ships to Australia, i just want to get the Vive pro headset, and then get the knuckles some how

[@Blake.1h]

Index is very good obvs but that display and wireless feature and the fact that u can pair the controller with the vive just pushes it over the edge for me

[@notmyjuice373]

I need some help picking out the right VR headset I have watched over a hundred videos now but I am still not sure which one to get because I want a HTC vive pro but the price is kind of ridiculous and I have heard a lot of negatives about it should i get a normal HTC vive and buy the Valve controllers for it or HTC vive Pro starter kit off amazon

[@the1cheez]

I love my og vive and are going to buy index controllers. Would not go for the pro but never tried a vive pro so

[@bupduppers2947]

Also if you purchase the wireless adapter that’s 1700 for a wireless headset when the quest could do almost everything it does with a lower price

[@NerdHerd404]

great video this deserves more views! I came to watch because I currently have a vive and am looking at a vive pro on ebay for about 450 CDN

[@tomstacey1103]

This is sponsored he put a gray filter over the index footage.

[@daviddurrani]

Thanks for this great review. I had the original Vive but have been out of the game for a few years. if you had to buy one headset today to use with Steam games which would you choose (disregard price)?

[@BenPlaysVR]

I would pick valve index 😁

[@daviddurrani]

@@BenPlaysVR Thanks buddy.

[@digitalstyx_est.2018]

So I watched this just now as an Index owner that now needs a new HMD out of warranty plus plenty of other RMA's and other out of warranty expenses. When comparing specs and design and performance intentions plus the apparent value of the entire kit the Index wins over the Vive Pro and the Vive Pro 2 still today.; But those specs mean nothing when your headset and components are two flawed to last long enough to qualify as an investment. I don't want to buy a Vive Pro 2 in 2022 either. I an considering either the Vive Pro or the Cosmos Elite HMD because I can get either for $300 used. I already own the lenses and adapters to do the Gear VR mod on either choice. So as long as the headset functions I'm going to have like new undamaged lenses either way. More importantly both seem to have better track records for quality and durability than Index kits. The only reason I considered the Cosmos was the possibility of using it for VR DJing depending on how VRChat responds when the headset is flipped up and whether or not the hand tracking can show in VRChat the Cosmos had some potential to be the right tool for that use case. With all things considered though, I need my daily driver to be the best daily driver it can be and cosmos flip feature introduces compromises to the comfort, sweet spot, etc that take too much away from my VR experience verses what I have been used to with the Index and the CV1 before that. Front heavy and I do not get along at all. I'm confident that the Vive Pro can serve me well until I desire to upgrade to something else. The Index proved it would not and Valve proved they don't care. at all about lasting value. I learned a lesson that will apply to all their hardware like the Steam Deck and whatever they name their "next gen" VR headset..

[@gurisler3622]

Both devices are great. But lcd vs oled is huge difference. Yea sde decreases with lcd but I still believe it is a huge trade off. In that category the best is PSVR. Yea it has lower res, but best of the best panel compared to any consumer VR hmd on the market. I just hope PC VR comes to that point with 3rgb pixel layout but oled screens, and high res with around 130 140 fov. Can't wait for 2nd gen but looks like we need at least 2 years for that.. Let's hope someone does something fast. Thanks for your review Ben.

[@FunkeymonkeyTTR]

maybe in another 2 years