Vlad Vexler - The Long War: Defending Society, Rule of Law, and Democracy from Assaults and Nihilism

Russian propaganda is at its heart nihilistic. Its effects can be highly corrosive, and it does not necessarily try to convince you of its point of view. Rather it seeks to engender division, conflict and in some circumstances apathy and inaction. Today I am discussing a wide variety of themes with Social Philosopher and KZbin phenomenon, Vlad Vexler. Themes such as propaganda and imperialism, authoritarian media spaces and their impact on how people think and act. And of course, we’ll be talking about the war, and the changes in Russia that this may trigger.
Video contents:
00:00 Intro
01:40 What Russians think
09:23 Mobilisation
12:07 Putin's project
24:18 Politics & truth in the West
38:03 Ukraine after the war
44:04 Russian opposition - a European vision for Russia
54:57 Putin's reading habits
59:57 Russian Empire vs Soviet Empire
1:09:50 Russia - decentralisation or break up
Vlad Vexler is a philosopher working in ethics and musicology. But he is also the host of several wildly popular KZbin channels that provide a guide to surviving and making sense of the 21st century, but recently his focus has bene on covering the crisis in Russia and Ukraine in detail. His content is created for reflective people who feel the present resources for making sense of our world are inadequate, but pulls off an extraordinary trick, to be both informative and entertaining at the same time. Please do check them out on KZbin.

[@VladVexler]

Jonathan thanks for having me and good luck with the pod! QUICK TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Intro 01:40 What Russians think 09:23 Mobilisation 12:07 Putin's project 24:18 Politics & truth in the West 38:03 Ukraine after the war 44:04 Russian opposition - a European vision for Russia 54:57 Putin's reading habits 59:57 Russian empire vs Soviet Empire 1:09:50 Russia - decentralisation or break up

[@IvetaWells]

❤️👍

[@SiliconCurtain]

It was such a pleasure Vlad - and a real thrill to be able to throw so many questions at you!

[@VladVexler]

@@IvetaWells 🌻

[@axlslak]

20:45 Re-establishment of the Eastern Roman Empire and COMPLETE DOMINATION over the western part of the Roman Empire. People only go back as far as WW2, or WW1, or the Russian Empire. But they don't understand the deeper wish of Putin and others to tie their RF as much as possible to the Byzantium Empire and basically swipe over the entirety of the west as being the wrong kind of christians, degenerates and so on. 50:50 exactly my point. Two halves of Europe. When one goes up, the other one goes down. It was the western part that fell first, and since then only the eastern half prospered comparatively compared. It all stopped with the enlightenment movement. It is also when the ottomans came on the scene and we lost Constantinopol to the turks. And since that moment, the eastern part started to degrade. Its not just WW1 and WW2. It started much earlier. And ever since Constantin moved the capital of his empire, things shifted in Europe completely and up until the enlightenment the brain drain went from west to east. People preferred to move to Byzantium. And for a long while this is what happened. When enlightenment happened, the trend stopped and even started reversing. Right? And ever since then... it remained the same. I think, Putin and Dughin and others have said multiple times that the west has been corrupt for a while. And if you talk to orthodox priests they will tell you that the enlightenment was a bad idea, and that the Church has to be tied to the state. And They will speak of the new world order. But if you ask them questions, you realise that they aren't talking about the Bretton Woods agreements, or the role of Police of the World of the US, and as further as you go back in time, they hate enlightenment. They even hate Leonardo daVinci for his "New man". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man Their Old World order is effectively when Byzantium was still around. And now they want to represent that part of Europe. I wonder what Vlad thinks about these ideas. For instance, I saw a declaration of president Putin today. And he said something along the lines of "The colonial powers have restricted shipments of grain to Africa". You can see it right there, it's a chip on his shoulder. It not only tells you about how he sees the west, but also the rest of the world. I think, I honestly think, that in his mind he only has to beat the western part of Europe, because everything else is just colonies of Europe anyway, including the USA. I think, in his mind, he derives some of his legitimacy out of being the ruler or the Eastern half of Christianity and the Roman Empire. And to be fair, all great powers derive at least SOME legitimacy from having roots going back to the Roman Empire. Except actually Russia doesn't. But it's a bit more than that. And again, I encourage people to talk to orthodox priests and discuss history. It becomes painfully obvious that at one point, the western kingdoms left the dark ages behind. Slowly but surely, it happened. And when it did happen, it kinda forced the eastern part to follow as well. I think, I look at enlightenment as the center of maybe the change as far as time goes, but things started before, and ended way later than enlightenment. enlightenment was just the center of all the change, I guess. But it started way back in 14 century with the age of exploration. I think. When the west stopped being dark. And when Constantinopol fell. Then colonies, enlightenment, republics and revolutions. And then, Russia was FORCED into that position because of the west. Because that's why they had their october revolution and that's why their empire fell. And I think to some degree, they hold the west responsible for that. Russia kinda lost it's way around 1500. Also around when the turks came around. Whatever came after, was a try to keep the west and others in check, but sometimes failed miserably.

[@QuizmasterLaw]

Long wars are stupid and bad because war is agonistic and impoverishing. I thought the neocunts had been sufficiently discredited after failures in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and most everywhere else. You can't impose democracy at gunpoint.

[@IvetaWells]

Vlad is great, go check his channels.

[@SiliconCurtain]

His channels are AMAZING! Such a great source of insight and depth about the current crisis.

[@zulubeatz1]

Absolutely. Very engaging and informative channel

[@nikbear]

His channel's are exceptional! So glad I've found them, his insightful thoughts and ruminations about the Russian mindset are incredible, a genuinely gifted and talented man 👏❤

[@sathingtonwilloughby2347]

💯 Well read, well spoken, and a perfect antidote to the many popular channels who offer only the low hanging fruit. He is a bright shining light in a sea of weekend statisticians, entrepreneurial content peddlers bent on channel growth through any means, and of course the sloppy editorial rant casts spinning feats of rudderless performative oratory. Vlad...is not them. He's the man 👍😎❤️

[@sherrillwhately7586]

Vlad has a great contribution to understanding how modern propaganda undermines participation in political processes.

[@markrice8589]

The best conversation with Vlad Vexler I have ever heard. You really drew the best out of him by working together. One point I contest: A bottom up solution will never happen because those in power are very good at getting and holding power, and rather supernaturally gifted at what they do. In the end they will concede to almost any change as long as they remain in control.

[@SiliconCurtain]

Thank you for those kind words, Mark. Well, I do agree - those in power, especially the Kremlin will never voluntarily acquiesce to the creation of bottom up governance. It would require a total fragmentation of the Russian federation, which come with terrible risks. But that process may have already begun, whether we wish it or not.

[@JKS_Crafting]

@@SiliconCurtain or a political version of Planck's principle - a more zoomed out/climate perspective pace of change that is by nature slow but perhaps more stable?

[@markrice8589]

@@SiliconCurtain You are not the only one who has mentioned fragmentation of Russia as a possibility. That really scares me because I have no idea how that would go.

[@18_rabbit]

@@markrice8589 can't be 'scarier' than a european country like Ukr getting sadistically brutalized like it has been, i.e the intent, the moral depravity levels, the gates are already open, there's no turning back now. So there's no point in worrying about how exactly the russian federative system of oblasts and regions etc etc, will perhaps decentralize, etc. It's their issue and problem. We need to focus on what our responsibility and needs are, which is to neutralize Ru's ability to do what it did so far. It's that simple. And that may mean various military means, both nonviolent and violent.

[@18_rabbit]

i'd counter that these ultra-aggressive/beligerant/chavinist/revanchist/colonial leaders in russia are not 'that' gifted, ie not to the extent as u say, ie supernaturally gifted. They are merely following the full extension of classic deception, both dissembling, i.e b.s. techniques, and relying on the passivity and self deception of many ordinary ppl everywhere. By 2015, many of us saw what was coming, after Ru had taken Crimea, and was then annhilating innocent Syrians in hospitals (i remember having my first profound nightmare ever, really, with hospital hallways ankle deep in blood, when normally even my worst dreams aren't like that at all. Ru has succeededing in alerting those of us who will fight back, and making the typical rightwingers in the west go craven (cowardly) or idiotic, as a couple of my associates have done.

[@youtubewatcher2]

I feel like a more intelligent and eloquent proxy had the conversation I would like to have with my favorite online voice of ethical centering and meticulous reason Vlad Vexler. Thanks for making this happen.

[@VladVexler]

🌻

[@BubblegumCreepydoll]

Thank you for having Vlad Vexler on. For me, he’s been a great sense making guide of the world today, since I found him few months ago. His knowledge and soul are deep, so he has a very distinct way of expressing these complexities. Although I have to say that at times, I get even lost with that, but that’s because I’m a simple soul when it comes to political complexities, but eventually I get it, or at least some of it. I will be 60 YO next month and I’ve never felt that the world has been so complicated before. Politics were politics, running in the background of my life mostly. I’ve always thought I knew what I like and didn’t like and did my civic duty of voting accordingly. I thought that was enough. But life has become increasingly different in the way we have to think about the world and Vlad Vexler is basically like a superstar to me (and so many others) when it comes to sense making. Thanks for having him on your channel. I’ll be watching this episode and you got yourself a new subscriber. 😊

[@SiliconCurtain]

Couldn't agree more - i binged on his videos when i discovered them last month, and it's been a huge privilege to have him on the channel.

[@SiliconCurtain]

He's also incredibly generous with his time and support - he just as genuine in life as he comes across in the vidoes.

[@BubblegumCreepydoll]

@@SiliconCurtain Thank you. That is truly lovely to hear. 🙏☺️

[@unreasonable3589]

Great comments Vlad - "politics is not an argument". Absolutely, it is a negotiation.

[@zulubeatz1]

I came across one of Vlads videos when i was at a loss to understand the events unfolding. I felt i wanted to know something about the Russian mentally.

[@TomKrueger1968]

This is so inspiring and thought provoking I've now listened to this conversation for three times and i keep finding new perspectives and lines of thinking. Brilliant!

[@SiliconCurtain]

To be honest, I could have kept talking to Vlad for hours. And had prepared enough questions to do that! So I’m sure we’ll have another conversation in future!

[@VladVexler]

Wow!

[@p.h.3987]

​@@VladVexler Oh come on Vlad, you know that you are a genius and we all love you for that! ❤😊❤😊

[@grantmcraven]

I so liked the analogy (about 35 mins in) of a couple of people in a bar trying to agree on what to drink, (and perhaps even having fisty cuffs to sort out their expectations) as an example of politics. So delightfully insightful.

[@Liisa3139]

I was so happy that you got to talk about a possible future scenario in Russia. Like Jonathan I have been thinking that a bottom up development is the only possible solution to some form of "democracy" or ordinary citizens playing an important part in creating diversity for their life solutions. The imperialistic tendencies won't go away, but they may be influenced and shaped from the bottom up forces if they are sufficient. Vlad, you are better in conversation than just on your own (not that you are by no means bad on your own). Thank you both.

[@robertbrennan2268]

Great thanks to "Silicon Curtain" and to Jonathan and Vlad for this sophisticated and profound conversation - so illuminating about Russia, the Soviet trauma, civil society in Ukraine etc. and the crisis of democracy in the West. Quite brilliant, even inspiring at a time of dark "nihilism".

[@illustr8life863]

33:00: You hit the nail on the head for me! I was just thinking that I feel like a political orphan. I dread the thought of having to vote due to my conscience and values system. New sub and am looking forward to more conversations like this one. Thank you both. So rare to hear such kind gentlemen converse so politely and honestly. You sirs are like rare gems found in a sewer.

[@thedownwardmachine]

Wow what a wide ranging interview with such moments of depth and insight, I wanted to print it out and highlight some of the quotes so I could reference them later.

[@VladVexler]

So glad it brought value!

[@MullicanDesigns]

@@VladVexler 😊

[@QuixEnd]

Wow! I'd never find this channel if it weren't for Vlad. Absolutely love that guy, one of my favorite humans on the internet.

[@whatifounddowntherabbithol5254]

Thank you for having Vlad on!

[@williamhenry8914]

Fantastic conversation thank you both!

[@builderbob3149]

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you!

[@MsHelord]

Love you, guys...! - Thanks for being here and speak about such essential subjects... it's just fascinating... 👌👌👌👍👍👍

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍👍👍

[@PRAR1966]

Thank you Vlad & Jonathan

[@ann-marieeigert2720]

Super interesting! High concentration of thought provoking bits!

[@davidgalloway266]

So impressed with the high quality of this content. Thanks.

[@SiliconCurtain]

Thank you! It’s quite a challenge doing this on top of a full-time day job! Each video takes 3-5 hours to book the speaker and prepare the ‘script’, then about 1-2 hours to edit, publish and promote each item.

[@davidgalloway266]

@@SiliconCurtain you should be doing this full time for the BBC or similar. The quality is well above what they usually put out.

[@zorgius]

@@SiliconCurtain Jonathan, your lead up questions are excellent, great insight and interviewing skills. And that’s on top of all the hard work and preparations you do on top of your full time job. I’m impressed.

[@begr_wiedererkennungswert]

26:00 If you are a liar who needs to convince the public that you tell the truth, or you are honest and need to convince the public that you tell the truth - both makes you equally vulnerable to a shitstorm and sudden loss of popularity. If you suggest that people can’t have any truth (/ coherence) in politics in general and you are entertaining or roughly represent a popular image, chances are very good that you end up at the top. People may be confused and frustrated about it but they also don’t see that in a democracy they are responsible for this mechanism and are the only ones who can change things.

[@gregoberski5897]

"These sort of long, sincere, historical narratives that exist within Russia's ultra-nationalist underbelly, coexist with the gangster criminality of the Putin regime. It's really like your village thief . . . is the priest. We have this quasi-mafia organization that has these missionary ideas to do with historical destiny and collective self-realization." - paraphrasing one of the many absolutely gold statements in this chat.

[@markmitchell457]

Thank you for having Vlad Vexler on your channel. Your long format promotes your guest to express themselves and their ideas in more detail than they do on their own channels. Vlad Vexler, for example expresses a few ideas for us to think about and poof he's gone. He doesn't even sign off his videos just end. This hour and 11 minute discussion allowed him to express himself, and his ideas in more detail than I have heard before. Thank you for your channel, and especially the long format discussions with some of the most informed people out there.

[@SiliconCurtain]

I worried about recording such long videos - but the time flies by when I’m making them!

[@tmlucatube]

Oh Vlad! Such a pleasure to listen and in not even 20 min into and I already went to comment.

[@RoyCousins]

Interesting and thought-provoking insight from Vlad, as usual.

[@mikebee888]

Ukraine is internally going through a pretty big and tough team building process, within the frame of this war. That might be an advantage in the coming building of a democracy...

[@SiliconCurtain]

There has been an extraordinary growth in civil society in Ukraine - it's inspiring to see how people have come together to support and help each other. And of course they are experimenting with what works and what doesn't, so there will be failures as well as successes in this process.

[@mists_of_time]

Such an amazing conversation, thank you.

[@OctavChelaru]

Thank you for this, deeply valuable!

[@Angels-3xist]

There aren’t going to be many new comments that pop up on this video and I wish I could leave a better one, but suffice it to say that this interview brought together Vlad’s philosophy and a great deal of his complex insight and outlook in a way that made so much of it click into place. Many of the ideas he is serving piecemeal through smaller videos on his channels are broadly swept into a narrative that might make anyone who’s been listening to him speak for a while come to a greater understanding. I believe this is a very deep and meaningful interview (as are most on the channel) and that anyone who is looking for a broad perspective would do well to listen.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍

[@thomasayresol]

I just came across your channel and subscribed. Great discussion with Vlad and I look forward to watching more of your videos.

[@SiliconCurtain]

Thank you so much. There are some great interviews going up in the next few days.

[@liul]

Very interesting, thank-you for the conversation

[@SiliconCurtain]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@OilBaron100]

Look forward to watching.

[@scheitahnberg]

you make for a such a brilliant combination with mr. Vexler.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍 I love the opportunity to speak with him!

[@LarsRichterMedia]

I love Vlad Vexler

[@felipefehlberg]

great conversation

[@Todd.B]

great conversation guys. good questions

[@santabanter]

Excellent conversation!

[@DavyJonesSimRacing]

Such an interesting and informative discussion

[@AG-gr4fm]

Silicon Curtain is by far the most informative channel of all. Smashing! Thank you!

[@Flornmonk]

Two very smart men!

[@gab363]

Thank you!

[@mats8375]

It's always good to watch Vlad, even if I'm not interested in philosophy.

[@bhansen52]

Very very good. Listened twice.

[@henriikkak2091]

This conversation is one of your best

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍

[@SiliconCurtain]

Hoping to have another soon!

[@p.h.3987]

It is remarkable how Vlad is capable of developing ideas fundamentally while speaking! Reminds me of an Essay written by Heinrich Kleist: Über die allmähliche Verfertigung der Gedanken beim Reden

[@davidl.7317]

I am so happy to have just found this gem a year after it was first posted. How seemingly prescient and forboding, in particular for Western Democracies.

[@zuggernautz]

Thanks!

[@GloriaWaslyn]

Vlad is a hero

[@VladVexler]

💛

[@SiliconCurtain]

He’s absolutely awesome, isn’t he!

[@daviddawson1718]

Warning baseball analogy:I have been on teams that fought and teams that didn't. The best teams that I played with got into fights in the dugout. Because those teams, those guys, cared about the game of baseball and were passionate about it.

[@phileasler5401]

Trump voter here, and I do like his podcast!

[@Chicken42069p]

Nice podcast

[@SiliconCurtain]

Thanks for listening

[@johnbell1859]

Great show. 🇬🇧

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍

[@antonygoedhals6272]

Thanks to both of you for brilliant insights. Would you say that the loss of the sense of 'civic belonging' (Vlad) is in any way related to the sudden onset of climate catastrophe, a physical loss of ground which has resonances in the stories we can (no longer) imagine for ourselves as rooted, homed humanity?

[@VladVexler]

I think the climate crisis will have a huge negative effect on our democracies. While some climate alarmists are talking about climate mediated societal collapse, I am essentially alarmed about climate mediated democratic collapse. In the West that is. I will be talking about this.

[@jmolofsson]

@@VladVexler Very well put! (I also find your points crucially important with regard to Ukraine's democratic ambitions at a time when democracy is either decaying or transforming in the EU-countries - and even more so in the Anglophone world in which you are embedded.)

[@henriikkak2091]

43:30 Yes!

[@sirrodneyffing1]

Great conversation, thank you. I found the comment about "what is Russia for" particularly pointed. From a British point of view I've often thought that. Just what the hell does the Russian state think it doing? Where it all the animosity taking them? I watched a Joe Blogg's video the other day and was astonished to see just how many vital commodities and technology Russia has to import from countries its threatening all the time one way or another. What Putin's done is suicidal.

[@SiliconCurtain]

I think Russia struggles to answer that question too, and that’s half the problem!

[@thomaskelly3474]

It was a miscalculation, pure and simple. In the West, the prevailing idea has been economic integration or at the very least cooperation, above all else, would render potential military conflict impractical and too costly. Putin counted on using this against the West. Sure, Russia is reliant in great part on the West for technology but a big part of the West is reliant on Russian energy. By "striking first" he put the ball in the West's court. This was one part of his miscalculation with the second being his probable belief that the Americans were now too weak to galvanise and mobilise other Western nations in standing up against him.

[@clarkeorchard2304]

Ownership. Totally agree

[@harrywoods9784]

Just a thought, interesting commentary. I think what we’re seeing In Ukraine is reminiscent of the Israel’s baptism by fire caused by war. The innovation manifest by the Ukrainian people forge by war, may in the near future create an extraordinary nationstate, along with Poland and the Baltic states may become the new dynamo of Europe🤔IMO

[@rvanhees89]

Lol, again

[@petercorbett3794]

Correction - Ekaterina Schulman! I came across her via a PBS Interview, on KZbin.

[@LLlap]

what's up with her?

[@SiliconCurtain]

I've tried to invite her to speak on the channel... watch this space...

[@MarkMark]

“Russia might not be fascist enough yet.” I am from the future, and, AFAICT, the West’s “too little too late” approach to “supporting” Ukraine gave Putin the time he needed to regroup and strengthen. 🤢 🤢

[@vaultsjan]

40:00-43:00 Vlad is spot on!

[@zulubeatz1]

As a History glutton funnily enough some things in old British History occurred to me also. Great minds eh.

[@carlloeber]

Don't get me wrong.. you commentary with Vlad is very good.. I have spent years traveling in Ukraine and Russia. I even owned a place in a village between Poltava and Kharkov. I understand how people in the countryside live. I am talking about how life is for educated working people in the cities .. like Kazan.. Rostov.. not just Moscow and Petersburg.

[@eruno_]

modern Russian fascism is inherently incoherent, it is not uncommon for Russians nationalists to praise both Russian Empire and USSR as the latter is seen as not a break, but continuation of "Great Russian project"

[@dsjwhite]

wonderful, not just the reflection on Russia but our need in the West to examine or own position and establish the horizontal and inclusive society which currently is fragmenting. And, who knows, this might be something which Ukraine can teach us. thank you.

[@SiliconCurtain]

Couldn't agree more; Ukraine has had to make it's society and institutions far more resilience since 2014 - and they place geater value on the concept of democracy, because it's under threat and relatively new; there's a lot we can learn from that.

[@sherrillwhately7586]

I see this idea in Russian cultural philosophy that if there is no God that nothing matters. Buddhism is a non-theistic religion that skirts the extremes of realism and nihilism called distinguishing the middle from the extremes. In this one accepts that nothing is ultimately real yet everything in the relative realm ethically matters.

[@xenocampanoli815]

An interesting question that just came to my mind is how very large portions of modern militarism is used not to keep out interlopers to a nation but to repress the domestic populations. Not only do we see that around the world now, from Russia and China to El Salvador, the Phillipines, and enclaves of the U.S., but arguably 1 000 years of feudalism, the Roman, Persian, and other empires had this kind of focus. I'm not a well versed historian, so I cannot state with confidence proporsions on this, but clearly it seems to be a major and possibly an overwhelming majority proportion of military energies in written human history.

[@xenocampanoli815]

I cannot find cellitating, except some possible reference to a word in Hindi?

[@user-yk6ig8cd8w]

Jonathan, thank you for your fascinating interviews, this one with Vlad Vexler was particularly insightful. What alarms many in the west, I think, is the barbaric nature of Russian aggression. I believe there are about 600 war crimes by Russians being pursued at The Hague. What I find perplexing is that there appears to be no reference, in Western media, to any war crimes perpetrated by Ukrainians against Russians. Are we expected to be naïve enough to think Ukrainians are all good and Russians bad?

[@SiliconCurtain]

It’s likely that crimes will come to live. But i expect them to be on a much smaller scale. Also the key difference of why The Hague is involved, is that crimes are a key component of Russian strategy, but not of Ukrainian military strategy. Also, Ukraine is not occupying Russian territory- and liberated towns seem largely delighted to be freed from Russian control. If Ukraine is liberating its own people, then what use does it have for terror tactics? In terms of military crimes - the Russian attrition rate is so high - what witnesses remain to attest to any?

[@-Deena.]

@36:05 As comedian Stewart Lee said 'People voted for Brexit for a number of reasons...and it wasn't just racists....' You either know the next line or you don't. Reductively but extremely accurately, they are indeed the people *responsible* for Brexit. Not me!

[@samizdatbroadcasts7654]

57:13 If I had to guess, I'd think Putin looks to Warhammer 40k as an instructional template.

[@petercorbett3794]

Putin would have been better off swerving the mystical crap and sticking to dry geopolitical abstractions like ‘strategic depth’!

[@Sophiedorian0535]

In the Nineties I watched the X-files on TV. It’s about two characters who respond to what they don’t understand, in two distinct ways. Agent Mulder responds from a desire to believe, whereas Agent Scully responds from a desire to know. The villain these two heroes are up against, seems to have neither desire. He’s called ‘cancer man’. He is a moral relativist at his best, and a complete nihilist at his worst. Mulder, Scully, and Cancer Man: pre-modernist, modernist, and post-modernist. Bush, Obama, Trump?

[@SiliconCurtain]

Didn’t know where you were going with that analogy - I thought you were comparing me, Vlad and Putin! 🤨

[@Sophiedorian0535]

@@SiliconCurtain Not at all, Jonathan. You guys were talking about people in general, and how they respond to feeling lost in the same complex of uncertainties in ways that are radically from each other. You may have missed reading my second paragraph, in which I refer to Bush, Obama, and Trump, by way of comparison. You mentioned the example of a sociology postgrad and a Trump voter. I don’t believe differences in knowledgeability or in political affiliation adequately explain such radically different ways of responding to the same thing. It is more basic than that. More universally human, and older than politics, religion, and science.

[@aido92]

Dugin has achieved prominence, not so much through a connection to Putin, as through his connections to the separatists of Luhansk and Donetsk (through which many have deduced the connection to Putin), and through a few happy (from his point of view) confluences of parts of his books with current events. I would suggest that he is, however, part of a wider, current strand of "Russian World" political philosophy, which does coincide to a significant degree with Putin's own, though which influences which is debateable.

[@blueredbrick]

'Are we european or something else' yeah was a good example of identity crisis. Well as a Dutch guy who can see the coast of Dover on good weather I can positively say you guys are in Europe, whether brexited or not.

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

Meh I’m also Dutch and that’s not really a good measure. You can see from Alaska the most eastern side of Russia, that doesn’t make eastern Russia America neither does it make Alaska Asian.

[@blueredbrick]

@@sit-insforsithis1568 Ok, just look on a map then :) Britain is part of Europe.

[@fonsvandenhove]

Two months ago I drove to Narva and farted in their general direction. Loud enough to be audible on the other side of the river, Russia. It was a meaningless and childish action. I had a laugh though. I felt free and European and Dutch. Or British? Because that's where I got the idea from.

[@tzazosghost8256]

We're part of the European Continent and part of cultural milieu. But that doesn't mean we are all just the same or should be made the same for some abstract notion of universal humanity. Dutch folk are not quite the same as Germans or Poles or Bulgarians. One size only fits all, if you chop off everything that is different.

[@octavianpopescu4776]

I see Britain as the Easternmost part of the US. Yes, geographically they are in Europe, but so is France in South America (French Guiana which is a part of France) and yet, culturally, it's clear the French are European, while the English (not all Brits) are basically Americans. I think Brexit was a final acknowledgement of this reality.

[@SimpsonPetrov]

"Putin project has nothing to offer, not at all" is a big simplification, in my opinion. I think you should dig deeper in that direction. Beside of that, Vlad had great thoughts, as always!

[@juliarichter6987]

What are your thoughts?

[@SimpsonPetrov]

@@juliarichter6987 Sorry, I was struggling for hours to formulate the answer in short comment that wouldn't create more questions and couldn't. It would be hard conversation for people who are aware of things. It would be as difficult , as for vegetarians who are aware of how many animals experience struggle, pain, fear, death through factory farming and don't have the tools to stand for themselves, to dig into exploring the values of eating meat. It might be not even beneficial for vegetarians to explore them because that wouldn't be helping that non-human animals they are protecting. But the values just exist. I'm sure lot of you enjoy eating meat and don't want to give up on that, and don't want to know about ethics of this.

[@juliarichter6987]

@@SimpsonPetrov Maybe it is that hard, because there is nothing there you can wrap your head around. Anti-Vegans don't have to offer anything except "the concept of Vegans, that animals should have the same rights as humans and therefore bot be killed to be eaten is very doubtable". This argument doesn't reduce the suffering of the animals nor the pollution of the environment and I think you are completely right that Vegans shouldn't use this argument if they want to help there case. This is why anti-vegans make problems up (restricting freedom!) or are deflecting the arguments, preferably in behaving toxic. And that is exactly what Putin is doing: Inventing problems he can "solve" afterwards. If he really had something to offer he didn't need to invent problems?

[@jc5512]

I thought the same. There are plenty of politically regressive factions around the world that like what Putin offers regarding opposition to the liberal democratic project, i.e. opposing what they see as the culturally degrading march of progress towards civil rights for all. I disagree with them entirely, but the promise to undo these changes and return to a culture of strong white male leadership and oppression for women and minorities is a real draw for many people around the world.

[@juliarichter6987]

@@jc5512Yes, but there is no way back, Putins promise is only a farce.

[@xenocampanoli815]

I agree with your assessment on the Trump voter ( I point this out besides the fact that I agree with you on most things because Trump Voters are the malignancy that affect me directly more than any other U.S.A. societal ailment I can think of ).

[@mestubbs]

This equally describes the Republican party.

[@richardcory5024]

I see Putin essentially as an opportunist confronting the same problem that both Russia and the USSR always faced for hundreds of years, which is to say that they have always been, except for a brief period in the Space Race, behind the West and, as a hydrocarbon and natural resources economy, have become relatively backwards in comparison to the West. His problem is, how does he reduce the gap between Russia and the West, particularly as the economic growth of the 2000s had pretty much run into the sand by 2011? In an attempt to rival the West, with which they have a deep inferiority complex, Russians have two options: start a war to conquer the West (the imperial model) or try to reform Russia, root and branch, in order to sufficiently Westernise it, develop a modern industrial economy, like Germany's, and import the necessary technology in the meantime to exploit the hydrocarbon resources. Since the end of the Cold War they have failed with the second option, of reform, and have turned to the first option instead, which means they have to turn the Cold War into a Hot War. Unable to reform, they follow the path that most hydrocarbon economies follow, that of authoritarianism, which does nothing to develop the economy and enriches the élites enormously, especially Putin himself, and the steady hydrocarbon cashflow means that the regime does not have to rule in the interests of the people and politics can meanwhile be outsourced by the population to Putin. In time they will return to the second option and then when they fail once more they will try the first option again and so on and so on.

[@BojanBojovic]

Hmm, in a sense nihilism is a cosmic perspective, a worldview in which not everything is there, and created for us humans, it is basically a view of reality in which there is no meaning we humans would like to believe, we are here and there is no special reason for that, we are just a basic chemistry which is aware of it self, nothing more, nothing less. It is difficult for humans to accept it, but the point is that nihilism does not mean only the negative, there is also optimistic nihilism which simply does not imply any meaning we humans so often search for in our lives, at least not a general or objective one, we have only our subjective meaning of life which could be liberating really, even if somewhat difficult to accept that the universe existed before us and it will exist after we disappear.

[@Alex_Plante]

Russia was screwed up and traumatized twice in their history. The first time was during the Mongol conquest, and today's Russia is probably similar to the early Muscovy period when they were still vassals to the Mongols and living with the consequences of that trauma.

[@SiliconCurtain]

It’s a deeply traumatised society, still very much in the shadow of the murderous Bolsheviks

[@joycebell6912]

Putin does not see that he needs to make any changes at all….

[@SiliconCurtain]

He won’t see it until his grisly and violent end…

[@MegaKnodel]

Comment

[@unfixablegop]

I'm not blaming Vlad for the intractability of the situation of course, but I don't see what my "taking responsibility" for hopeless nutters in my own country does to improve things. What else is there to do but to oppose those who are both delusional and unteachable?

[@SiliconCurtain]

It does seem like we are in a more stark era. Until 2012 people in Russia could be forgiven the illusion they lived in a quasi democracy… but what happening now is of a different order… it full blown 21st century Stalinism - certainly in Belorus - and it seems Russian authoritarianism is always only a few months behind Lukashenko’s descent into hell… not a time for nuance, I suppose - but fight or flight…

[@VladVexler]

They are compatible and connected. Opposing and taking responsibility.

[@seastorm1979]

as a Finn I really hope that russia ( I use small letters for a reason ) and russians will do a lot of soul searching and learn that Imperialism and Militarism will not help humanity as a whole. Mankind is facing great threats and natural disasters and insular nationalism will not help us at all.

[@juliarichter6987]

We are missing something. There is something about humans we still don't understand. Or something we will never be able to understand, because we are the ones who want to understand things? All over the world there are those people who completely fail to "offer anything", who only know they are "against", but prefer to invent an enemy instead of being against something that exists. I don't know, if this is a new phenomenon or if it was always like that? Anyway, it drives me crazy and I spent hours trying to understand what motivates those people. Motivates them to a degree, that they lose empathie for people. Putin is only the most extrem example for this destructiveness.

[@JS-yq4ff]

Is it me or does the host look like an older version of Prince William?

[@kenrickhackett3977]

Everything you two are saying makes sense, but it seems to me you’re leaving out a crucial component: the longing for a kind of racial purity. This manifests in Putin as the civilizational imperative and it manifests in the West as white Greco-Roman-Judeo-Christian supremacy which seems to be toward ethno-centric nationalism.

[@robgrey6183]

Vexler never misses a opportunity to insult the group he calls "Trump voters". Calls himself a "philosopher" but is in fact just another ideologue.

[@hammer6198]

Everything you've said about Russia you can say about America! And then some!

[@SiliconCurtain]

Not really.

[@hammer6198]

@@SiliconCurtain Yes! really. You're just in denial.

[@danwylie-sears1134]

"It's not clear what this empire is offering at all" It's not reason enough not to end Russia, nor is it something that Russia is offering specifically to Ukraine, but there were Russian peacekeeping troops in Armenia or Azerbaijan, and I suspect it's not coincidence that the current resurgence of violence there is happening just as it becomes clear that Russian troops have no backup.

[@SiliconCurtain]

A weakened and ineffective Russian army will open a Pandora’s box of suppressed conflicts - and also trigger other struggles by countries to finally drag themselves out of Russia’s influence. It’s going to get messy and unpredictable.

[@ericwillis777]

You don't know what Europe is, except you want UK to hand over it's soverignity to it ? ?

[@alexiskiri9693]

How much can we blame Foucault and Nietzsche for this crazyness? Loss of truth.

[@danieljulian4676]

Yep. I don't know how much blame is warranted, but take it from a quant person, loss of truth leads to boomerang rocket launches. If you want to get things done _dependably_... But then again, one may find _dependability_ too confining...

[@MrGunnar69]

Blame those who lie, not those who tell you someone is lying. The fact that someone does not agree with you cannot be explained by the fact that he has lost faith in the truth. In a free society it's not a problem when someone disagrees with you, but I understand it is a problem for religious/social fundamentalists. If you're a liar, it's convenient to blame everything on nihilism, racism, or the devil (Putin/Trump, choose for yourself).

[@capuchinfriarsusa]

Why do you refer to me as "they" and "them?" There's the problem, and you wonder why people like me feel like we don't belong anymore? Really?

[@danieljulian4676]

Before you get all moist and breathless, or hard and steely-eyed, remember that a philosopher is responsible for turning "Society must be defended" into a buzz phrase.

[@carlloeber]

I would like to see you confront just two issues as someone who lives in California and is in Russia right now and has made more than 40 trips to the former Soviet Union.. the insanity of public policy in the United States versus life in Russia today.. you all have seen the photos where I live in California of thousands of people living in tents on the sidewalks and on the freeway at off ramps.. you've seen this.. I don't see anything like this at all in Russia.. I have spent months in Rostov Moscow and now St Petersburg where I am right now.. say what you will about this it is something that affects the quality of life and the mentality of the population here.. look at the fact that the promoters of transsexuality are suggesting that young children can choose their gender and it is just one of the things that they get to decide like what they want to do for a living when they grow up or what they want to study in school.. and that girls in youth sports should compete against boys.. are you serious? .. this is the insanity of the West right now.. large sections of the elite forces whomever they are that gets this thing into the public discussion and actually affects policy.. this is the insanity that is going on in the West..

[@SiliconCurtain]

I also have travelled through Russia, and Moscow / St Petersburg are not representative of the whole country. There are vast swatches of the population who live in desperate poverty. But i alsl agree with you that in the US in some ways the poverty is worse, because the poor are surrounded by such incredible wealth. Generally my political views are slightly left of centre, but in the US, i'd probably be considered a communist... :-)

[@danutmh]

The reason why there are so many unhinged beliefs is that there is no more standard of belief. In the past, it used to be religion. Now it's politics and trends. I think the reason why religion (especially christian) gets bashed so often is because it has been "disproven" , discussed and dissected so much in media, therefore they will cling to anything they can for their own sanity's sake. This is especially true for anything that's newer, or has recently appeared, since it hasn't been deboonked yet. Maybe that's why they won't even allow it's discussion in the first place.

[@kavihamwayeri494]

This is the pure propaganda

[@orctowngrot8842]

Is someone making idiotic presumptions about 'Trump voters' and 'Brexit voters'?

[@dixztube]

Lol your question and profile picture make this comment hilarious

[@jc5512]

@@dixztube "stupid liberals, assuming we're some kind of Nazis" - the person with a Nazi on their profile picture

[@danieljulian4676]

How can these guys think so much of themselves? The answer to the question of nihilism is a no-brainer.