Vlog #11 Training/Injury Rehab Wreckers

[@TomClothier]

Glad to see you're still pumping out this quality content dave! Just read "9 out of 10 climbers..." and it's really changed my perspective on climbing/training for climbing. Thanks again!

[@lachlanroberto5160]

Not sure if you guys cares but if you guys are bored like me during the covid times you can stream pretty much all the new movies on instaflixxer. I've been streaming with my gf lately xD

[@quintonayaan4440]

@Lachlan Roberto yup, I've been using instaflixxer for years myself =)

[@Newstream01]

These vlogs are legendary! Much appreciated. Thank you Dave!

[@heartsandscissors]

Thanks for this one. I've been dealing with tendinosis in my elbow which has kept me from climbing for the last six months. It's been getting better but more slowly than I expected, despite having a pretty solid understanding of what I need to do in terms of recovery exercises. Realizing that my sleep issues and alcohol intake may be a contributing factor should help push me to go to bed earlier instead of having a second beer and watching another episode of something on Netflix.

[@Zephromonia]

Great video, much appreciate the perspective.

[@anthorinwow598]

Thank you Dave, keep up the good work and stay healthy! Your vids and books helped me out so much in the past and still are doing. Greetings from tyrol :-)

[@alexdaykin7134]

As a PhD student, it means a lot that you address the challenges of balancing training with the demands of life outside of climbing. Thanks so much for these videos, Dave!

[@dark-o]

Always spot on Dave. I follow you for few years now, ever since I got the first more serious finger injury and my climbing friend gave me the link to your blog. Just ordered your book. Keep up the good work with the vlog and the quality content. We all appreciate what you give to the climbing community. Thank you.

[@MythAvatar]

It is nice that our desks have the same book on, although you appear to have a few more.

[@benmurdock100]

Liked what you said about working around your finger injury. Dealing with golfer's elbow last year, I developed a whole new set of techniques with matching, mantleing, and new body positions to avoid pulling with my right arm. It made me a much more efficient climber overall, and I still use many of those strategies now that I'm healthy. Injuries can be a great chance to train in new ways.

[@SarahSilva-ne2is]

Hi Dave, thanks for taking the time to shed light on injury recovery. I’ve had chronic injuries for years and I’m really frustrated - I know I could be climbing at a much higher level if I didn’t have to scale back my training so often. I feel like I’ve tried everything...I’m diligent with my physio exercises, my diet is good, and I don’t drink. I climb twice a week and I warm up for a long time. I’m trying to figure out what my “stressor” might be. I sleep 7 hours a night on average, so that could be it. I also just have a lot of anxiety in general, so maybe there’s something there too. In your experience, what other “stressors” might hold back the recovery process?

[@climbermacleod]

An experienced coach who gets to know you well might be able to identify what's going on. Your body should not be getting constantly injured. There is a reason or multiple reasons. Yes losing that much sleep chronically could certainly explain it on its own, especially if the sleep environment is not optimal as well. Close second to that is diet. Different folks idea of what a good diet varies pretty spectacularly! For example, I know many climbers and other athletes who actually think a vegan diet is a good diet for sport performance. I also used to think I ate a good diet, but now my idea of a good diet has shifted markedly after looking at the field more closely and questioning some of the dogmas. The presence of anxiety raises the suspicion (but certainly does not prove) that there could be a dietary component. Other stressors - there are countless ones. How much basic strength do you have? Basic conditioning is a huge protector against injury generally.

[@SarahSilva-ne2is]

Dave MacLeod thanks for the thoughtful response! My diet is pretty decent - I eat mostly meat protein, leafy greens and fat, avoiding sugar and carbs. The basic conditioning part is hard for me to judge. I was a competitive gymnast when I was younger, so I built a strong foundation there, and I exercise regularly. I’m not sure what standard I should be meeting for fitness, but you’re right about a coach being able to tell me that. I’m actually on chapter 3 of your book now, and the part about proper technique is enlightening. I spent the first three years of my climbing career muscling through everything. My technique sucked but I could send some hard stuff just by sheer will. I’m thinking that behaviour combined with old gymnastics wear and tear could be part of it. Probably something to do with muscle imbalance too. Looking forward to more content from your channel! Thanks for the advice!

[@littledrummergirl_19]

@@climbermacleodI know this comment is 4 years old but thanks for one of the climbing subreddits I realized that my diet (lack of food tbh, I’ve always struggled to eat enough, no eating disorders or anything just not eating a lot, putting some pounds on in recent months though!) and I figure lack of protein specifically, plus nutrients in general, is probably behind why I’m constantly straining wrists and fingers and arms!

[@biblibop]

Great content! Just shared your vlogs with my crew.

[@danielmadden7403]

You are the man, dave

[@jaydee4988]

Havent seen many climbers spend 10-15mins cooling down after climbing. It's a no brainer for injuries. Many people overlook the relationship of the lats and quadratus loborum. Climbing evolves alot of side bending and reaching. Tightness here is going to inhibit any extension of the arms from the shoulder causing you to apply more force on the forearm and greater rate of fatigue.

[@ruymanac]

Fantastic video!! Thanks

[@matsalaun]

Thanks for having written this book it really helped me to réhab my shoulder inpimgement

[@rols2840]

Does it still hurt? Or does it stay with you permanently?

[@clayton6095]

Love these vlogs!

[@karenb221]

Wise words thank you for sharing

[@jcrotty18]

Dave you didn't look uber knackered but yes you do look a bit fried as we say in the states. Great piece as I am another working man balancing training, family, job and other various commitments. Thanks for this great piece!

[@tristanmayfield4851]

As Dave crushes on the lack of health of screen time I'm sitting here working on programming my next project. Sigh...

[@codieuitvlugt7078]

What are the degrees on all your walls?:)

[@dasNeves_vfx]

Hi Dave, just put an order on your book. Really looking forward to read it. I've been dealing with a finger pulley injury for the past year, it comes and goes as I try to climb harder. I've had phases of a month or two where I was able to climb pain free and even thought the injury was gone...but after two or three sessions trying to climb hard to improve I end up getting injured and waking up in the morning with a lot of pain on my finger. I've visited a Physiotherapist and I am currently climbing below my grade level, foam rolling my forearm, icing the finger in the evening. I've also been recommended to keep doing fingerboard training, do you recommend this? Even if it hurts while and after doing it? I find that if I do a very long warm up it hurts less while doing it but it ends up hurting a lot the next morning. Should I keep climbing at a low level and keep doing some finger board training? How did you overcome your finger injuries? Thanks in advance! Keep up the great work and amazing content.

[@VerdeSocks]

Daniel, I'm in a really similar situation to you, please let me know if you get a good response or find something useful in the book. I've just started 9 out of 10 climbers so it will be a couple of weeks before I get to Make or Break.

[@Sepp2009]

Hey Dave, I'm almost 30 now and I've been bouldering for my first year and made great progress. Although I'm experiencing some neck pain especially after bouldering sessions and I don't know where it's coming from. It feels like a stiff neck or there's pain when i turn my head left or right. Have you ever experienced something similar or met someone with this problem? I bet you are the right person to ask this and I hope you can help me out. cheers

[@climbermacleod]

There would be multiple possible causes based on individual factors - get yourself in front of a good physiotherapist.

[@optimusrhyme22]

Hey Dave(aka St. Mcleod as I've taken to calling you) - thanks as always for the quality content. Early in the video you seem to suggest that you hangboard every day no matter what. Is that a correct interpretation or are you merely suggesting that you try to get on the hangboard/bouldering wall/rings/do something everyday? If it is the case that you hangboard most days do you cycle volume or intensity or do you just go to max for a couple hangs per grip then move on?

[@climbermacleod]

If I'm only doing short sessions then yes I can do hangboard most days (like 6/week). But I do take a couple of rest days if I have really long boulder sessions or more especially hard days out climbing on rock. Resting today after a fighting with a hard outdoor project for 5 hours straight yesterday and then cleaning a bunch of other boulders.

[@optimusrhyme22]

@@climbermacleod Intriguing - I guess my obvious-ish follow up(have so many) is would you suggest that to others? I think many intermediate-advanced climbers make the mistake of trying to train like people who are much stronger than themselves and end up injured. I definitely consider hangboarding in isolation to be quite safe but I still worry about hangboarding in conjunction with boulder training. Also what counts as a short session for you? Like Warmup --> Hangboard --> Boulder for a bit?

[@climbermacleod]

@@optimusrhyme22 Well clearly it depends on folks level but broadly speaking yes so long as the volume is suitably low. Sometimes I'll just do only the hangboard session and nothing else, sometimes some high quality boulder efforts as well, sometimes more etc etc. It depends on lots of things but first and foremost it depends on what my body is telling me it can tolerate. As the video alludes to, if you take care of your body and rest professionally, it can absorb a lot of physical training just fine. Many climbers are overstressed, sleep deprived and malnourished and so unsurprisingly they break themselves against training that is perfectly normal if they fixed that.

[@optimusrhyme22]

@@climbermacleod Okay - Thanks so much for the responses. I could do this all day but going to go hop on the hangboard instead.

[@Packallama]

Video was great, but the volume was way too low other than the outro.

[@climbermacleod]

I know, sorry. I exported the wrong version. I was in too much of a hurry to get out and train! Normal service will be restored next episode.

[@silentmedia]

Awesome

[@KD_cycling]

I find much of the training and injury advice that's out there assumes a 9-5 office life. I'm a rope access technician and my work leaves me utterly exhausted on a regular basis. I can find it hard to motivate myself to go to the bouldering gym after hanging in a harness is the blazing Australian sun for 10hrs. It also makes injury recovery almost impossible. On the plus side my muscles aren't wasting away all day in front of the computer. The training programs I have tried all seem to be quite high in volume (3-5 sessions a week) which has lead to inevitable injury after about week three. Does anybody have any recommendations for higher intensity, lower volume training programs for advanced climbers? (5.12+) Long story short, if you want to climb hard don't be a rope tech.

[@climbermacleod]

This is an interesting point I might do a whole episode on this.

[@climbermacleod]

Kieran I just made another episode (#12) discussing this in a bit more detail.

[@rickedeckard2006]

Legend

[@freyabaxter9333]

Hey Dave, Im a student living in halls and I can't get a hang board cause I cannot attach to the walls of my flat. Do you have any other suggestions to build finger strength without a hang board? Loved the video.

[@leoingson]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaaQfqWkmK2jgNE Or 2 sizes of Campus rungs right on the doorframe.

[@climbermacleod]

Yes Freya, Episode 1 of my vlog shows my mobile fingerboard I made in ten minutes which you can hang from anything (beams, trees, banisters etc. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5XMiqiXq7uksKc Loads of folk in this situation get lever mounts for pull-up bars that attach to a doorway without being screwed in or anything. You just lift it up and hook it over. Attach a piece of ply or wood to it and mount a fingerboard onto it.

[@amateurzen4732]

Damn wish I didn't have to youtube this video! Tendons have finally failed me

[@hypercubeRS]

Hello Dave, Watching your video I was thinking: "So, what is MY Stresser?" And i started thinking on alcohol, as you suggest in the video, so my question is: How much alcohol is too much alcohol for you? Could you quantify it? Some background: As a 26 year old climber who loves beer I am now drinking maybe an average of 2/3 pints of beer per week (sometimes none, sometimes more - specially if I'm going on trips with friends were I'm not climbing) but being careful not to train hard, listen to my body and rest well when I've done some more drinking. Some time ago I drank a lot more, and from my experience I feel like drinking a pint of beer with friends after a training session is not that much of a drawback regarding recovery time, but I can see how 2/3 pints after training would be one, so, how much is OK in the long term? I can also see how alcohol can quickly add up to weight (empty calories) so I am also being careful with this. I know that in 9/10 you say something along the lines of "serious climbers will be drinking beers so rarely not to have to worry about if they are bringing down their performance ", so what i ask myself is, how far away am I from this category? On a side note, Dave thank you very much for your content, I've read (and taken many notes I re-read daily) "make or break" and "9 out 10 climbers" and follow religiously your videos. Before make or break I always had the sensation that whenever I started training hard for climbing I would get injured and I would never progress over 6a/6b because of this. "9 out 10" is currently my training bible, just so much no-nonsense knowledge that is getting me stronger and helping me fight my fears in climbing day by day. Before reading "9/10" I had read a bunch of training books and posts, but I feel like yours was the one that I most needed at this time in my climbing career. It's been a year since I broke my crossed ligament skiing, rethought my sporting objectives and decided to give all I had to climbing and started informing myself on how to train and progress. I am actively progressing since then (objective 7a in 2019), doing a lot of training and measuring myself by the standards you set in your books. Thank you very much Dave, keep up the good work, you are a great inspiration and you make me feel less crazy for spending my days climbing and climbing. P.S: really looking forward to that nutrition post/book (I really hope it's a book !! ) you've been announcing for some time, started tapping into nutrition since a couple of months ago and I would love extended info on your part - you can do it Dave!

[@climbermacleod]

I'm not sure you can easily quantify that effect of moderate alcohol intake. I would think the effect on sleep is likely more important than the effect on calorie intake. I think its more about the general lifestyle - I drink beer maybe 2-4 times a year. I know that if I was in the habit of regular drinking (as I have been in my teens) then its all too easy to slip into the other habits that you could convince yourself 'don't matter this once' or in small amounts. The odd late night, the odd crap food. The totality of the effects can add up to quite a big overall effect. I'm just not a good enough climber to get away with that. I tend to socialise in a climbing setting anyway, so I don't need alcohol as part of socialising. And drinking at home makes no sense to me, unless its tea of course.