VOLTAGE DOWN THE NEUTRAL CAUSING LED PROBLEMS AND EARTHING ISSUES

[@Marcel_Germann]

If the capacitor doesn't help you should check if the light switch really switches the line. If the light switch actually switches the neutral instead of the line you'll also get this effect. Greetings from Germany!

[@megazeus7972]

We need big Clive on the case! My guess is that there'll be a capacitor somewhere on that circuit causing the issue

[@ConstantlyDamaged]

The driver will likely be a capacitive dropper. There'll be a very small current leak that is charging up the main cap in it, and when that capacitor charges enough to cause the driver chip to fire, it's using the capacitor to power the LEDs. It needs a 1M ohm resistor across that cap to keep it discharged-but the leakage also needs to be fixed.

[@asus12351]

Dang delroy that look likes a nightmare. I appreciate your skill and determination. Most people would have ran for the hills after one look.

[@stephenwilshaw3052]

Enjoyed the video Delroy. Perhaps you should check with the client whether the guy who did the EICR actually touched any of the electricals (or even came into the house! )

[@johnlishman4946]

yeah that's true bet he had a "plug in Martindale tester" with 3 light on it & that was his only tool he used

[@manyshnooks]

Re the LCD It's just induction from a parallel live. The >999 on the megger generally means there is no earth. The fact tbe RCD test didn't work is also evidence that there's no earth.

[@warrenhawthorne1496]

Hi Delroy, great video again. I had an issue on RCDs not tripping on a BG split Dual board. They wouldn’t trip on the test button, or via the tester. I assumed it was a faulty RCD, so I replaced it ( the original one was full of brick dust, from whoever fitted the board), with the new one in it was still the same, when I manually pushed the switch down (as the test button wouldn’t work) random MCBs would trip it, and I couldn’t get it to stay on. In the end I disconnected every circuit, as they still wouldn’t trip with the MCBs off, and everything worked fine, and I got the usual readings 17ms @ x5 etc.. I started adding the circuits back on 1 by 1, and when I got to the cooker circuit everything started going haywire again. I disconnected it and everything worked, I asked one of the tenants if there had been any issues with the cooker,and they said Yes, it started sparking on the grill,then stopped working. It was a Neutral to Earth fault on the cooker that was seizing the RCDs on the board.. It could be something similar on your circuit, hopefully you find it quicker than I did 😀

[@oiuslags]

If there is a neutral to earth fault the RCD should trip

[@warrenhawthorne1496]

@@oiuslags Not always, I saw this on a faulty oven, when the appliance was connected, the 2 RCDs wouldn't trip, even manually with the buttons. Once removed, everything worked on the board as it should. The RCDs wont trip unless there is an imbalance, and although there may be a connection between CPC and Neutral, it may not be enough to trip them.

[@independentvoice6686]

I suspect there is an intermittent short on the switch circuit (making the switch connection). The reason you you don't see a flash on the old fitting or the filament lamp is because they take more current whereas the LED takes very little so you will briefly see the flash of light coming on.

[@mattb4266]

Love your videos, always something to pick up , keep em coming m8y All the best Delroy

[@robbie5035]

looks like me and you have same problems ,should be an easy job . but turns into a nightmare .well done keep up the good work

[@markgilder9990]

Always enjoy these Del.

[@richardwash6678]

Brilliant Delroy,genuine sparky !👍

[@slopsallover]

Delroy, you should become a meditation teacher ...boy oh boy you are the coolest sparks around. Fair play to you man. PS. Report the person who carried out the EICR.....your probably to nice to do that tho.

[@Михаиллеви]

David savery would have filled his swear tin for the year in 10 seconds. Delroy is so diplomatic. Good contrast.

[@davidpatterson1574]

Good work Delroy, that looks like a nightmare to me, hope you can get it resolved.

[@P2DAPIPE]

Hey Delroy looks like your beanie matches the wallpaper at the start✌🏼

[@normanboyes4983]

I believe reasonable quality lED light fittings will have that sort of capacitor already in the circuitry and your direct functional test with the plug top sort of proves that.

[@johnlishman4946]

sound like a borrowed neutral some where on the light could be anywhere in that house it's a mess as for the sockets maybe no earth at those 2 x sockets think i would have break down by now on that job good god good luck del

[@andyevans6058]

Carbon monoxide detector wired between line and switches line maybe? Would mean it would pull its neutral through the lamp when light switch turned off? Just a long shot

[@condor64]

My Megger got lost when I sent it for repair too!? They eventually found it and returned it weeks and weeks after I’d sent it for repair !

[@datsunruss]

I really need to know what the script is with this one when you get it sort Del - Its got me hooked mate !

[@Michael-xk9ft]

Thanks good video... And I see you got some new gloves 🙌

[@doncodman913]

Yeah the light in the workshop loo does the same . looks like the same light. I think David savery came up with a fix for this issue. rgds Don

[@oyleyhands1332]

Some LED light fittings do create problems. If you ever fit a PIR wall switch that does not require a neutral at the switch and all is well if you hare switching a filament type fitting, all may be well as the switch is requiring, to function, a return path and that is via the switch wire and...the filamanet in the lamp itself. Switch out that filament lamp for an led fitting and you may....get the same flashing and that could have you scratching your head.

[@rayhenderson6822]

I have just been to a job this weekend where a newly installed led lamp was coming on dimly when switched off. The cable to lamp was twin and earth but testing when switched off showed 120v between neutral and earth. Checked cable back to consumer unit and identified that the earth was not connected at the board. As soon as I connected the earth the problem stopped.

[@lordsummerisle87]

Inductive coupling from the permanent live to the floating CPC and then back to the switched live, I expect

[@jeffhanson2298]

13:38 went to put the live in the neutral 😂

[@robbryden4982]

Devon boy could you not just fit a fireangel battery WiFi remote base unit in. They are abit pricey but the time you save in labour?

[@martincarey8620]

LED lights staying on dimly and flashing is normally caused by capacitive coupling, which is tiny voltage being induced from within the working... not a wring fault or short, and often just one light in a house will do this... Seen it a number of times. Not something that can be detected or fixed, and fitting a conventional light is a simple fix.

[@daves4687]

He connected it up on another circuit though and didn't flash?

[@Hammy135]

I’ve also seen this with cfl lamps on 2 way circuits . When the switch is in the off position capacitive coupling can build up enough charge to flicker the lamp. There’s no induced current on the socket circuit hence no flicker.

[@sdgelectronics]

It can be detected - simply measure the voltage.

[@HA05GER]

​@@daves4687I think wire runs and how they are run effect it. If you buy cheap led bulbs they can glow for the same reason.

[@spaggtrait1608]

You can fix it. I don't know if Del had the right capacitor here, or if he wired it maybe wrong. But I have fixed this problem with capacitors for many people.

[@daveykane5618]

Hi Delroy...what's the crack with the socket...you have to let us know bonny lad...is the light tapped in to the socket? Is the cable nipped through the sheath on the earth. Is the socket rubbish. Is your out side socket on the same..circuit....we wait with baited breath for the next instalment. Be safe.

[@busman2000]

A borrowed neutral wire, probably explains all your lighting headache on the upstairs .

[@Charles61284]

Wouldn’t that continually trip the RCD

[@johnlishman4946]

yes i was going to say that at the beginning of this i thought i would see if any one else thought the same nice one Andrew

[@mrclive5]

Take the socket off for a visual?

[@reecehorner3736]

Electronic time lag switches can cause problems with led lighting, some makes of led fittings don't have an issue but others can,

[@Bin216]

The problem with the LED fitting is that LED drivers can be much more sensitive to stray induced currents. Typically the driver has a bridge rectifier which turns the AC mains into pulses of DC, and then that is fed into a capacitor to smooth it (there are also components to limit the current, but for induced current that isn’t important for this as they are very low compared to when the power is on). When there are induced currents in the wires to the driver, the capacitor in the driver charges up until there is enough energy stored in it up start up the rest of the driver which lights the LEDs, obviously there isn’t enough energy being supplied to keep the LEDs lit, so they turn off again and the capacitor starts charging and the pattern repeats. You can also have drivers where the LEDs glow at a low level, it depends on how the driver is designed. LED drivers which don’t do this when there are induced currents present generally have a discharge resistor across the smoothing capacitor which is enough to prevent the capacitor charging significantly from stray currents. David Savery of DSES did a video about it (if you can ignore the language and acting at the start): kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKK3gKWJeauJnZI

[@eicrcomplianceltd7590]

Don't think it's anything to do with the driver, encountered the same issue on direct supply 230v, he tried the fitting by wiring to plug and it worked, in circuit fault.

[@markgilder9990]

Use to find this more on 2 way lighting with induced voltage. Phillips Low Energy lamps were know for it, building up enough energy to discharge and getting tip lamp to flash.

[@stephenwilshaw3052]

Ah yes, Mr Savery's Holmes and Twatson video. A modern-day classic based on Conan Doyle's famous sleuth!

[@m101ist]

I would have tested the neutral wire and trace it back. Or install a new feed cable, twin and earth for lighting. 😳 That problem I would like to have had to solve logically. 🙄 When the led array light is switched off there should be no power to the led light. I would have tested the switch live to see if there any voltage leakage when switch is in the off position. 😲

[@boolfrog]

LED problem - capacitive/inductive low voltage induced on live wire, especially prevalent apparently when the switch wiring has no earth. Problem manifests itself by flashing or dim glowing on led lights. WIre a neon across the live and neutral of the fitting to fix the problem, see David Savery's video for a more detailed explanation, if you can stick his style of videos. fix is shown at 25:20 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKK3gKWJeauJnZI. Good Luck

[@frazer26]

Was going to link to the same video

[@peterhubbard7665]

What a nightmare of a job,wll done for persevering.

[@Cablesmith]

Good video del 👌🏼

[@moodyga40]

you were using the 4 MFD condenser as a snubber boot cap interesting

[@sdgelectronics]

snubber boot cap? It's just using the complex impedance of that capacitor as a load.

[@donnierobertson3088]

Nice job and video

[@Screwy9758]

Me, myself would've run a seperate earth back to the board for that fluorescent striplight. Anyone coming in with DIY (destroy it yourself) electrical expertise could do the same & wire a metal fitting in later on.

[@Михаиллеви]

A metal fitting in that utility room when a perfectly good non metal one just fitted ? The world will be run by robots following an alien invasion and the millionth strain of covid before then.

[@Screwy9758]

@@Михаиллеви Wiring a non metal fitting in still defeats the ''SAFETY'' of an EARTH! All in all - - the cost of both time & money removing a 'working' fitting, going out to sort/purchase/fit a new non metal unit only to find out if later there's a fault on & the workings /become live to the 'person replacing/fault finding the innards of said unit, or - - building owner decides later to fit a fitting that needs an earth - - - that money wasted could've gone into running an earth or new length of T&E.

[@jackl9922]

I have good knowledge of US wiring and reasonable in Germany. Apparently, things are a lot different in UK.

[@markgilder9990]

Just dealing with old crap that over the years has been messed about with. Nightmare.

[@stevenhastings1942]

Neutral earth reverse at the sockets? Socket and see and megger wouldn't pick that up as a fault. And any real need for the carbon monoxide detector? Sealed boiler no open flue. Just wondered If that was a requirement in your neck of the woods? Does the test button work on your rcd? If not you ate definitely looking at a neutral fault of some description as this will inhibit the operation of the test function

[@Михаиллеви]

No legal requirement for a CM detector except in rented since 2015 for solid fuel burners (coal wood) but all boiler manufacturers recommend one no matter what the boiler is as potentially any boiler could leak CM. It could back up due to a blocked flue even

[@Nick_Carlos]

Any electronic time delay switches?

[@lewistempleman9752]

What a shabby old place (utility room), hope there wasnt too much asbestos about, especially up inside that cieling void

[@icemanA84]

The ceiling he cut through looks very much like a Artex finish it’s very possible to have asbestos in it. Despite minimal risk from small amounts of exposure it’s still a risk non the less would recommended a mask at the least.

[@tresslerj1985]

2:26 I got let go from a company for taking too long to do eicrs because I did stuff like that. The boss's dad came to "observe" and was like you take too long.

[@markgilder9990]

Know what you mean, some people just don’t give a toss. At the end of the day, it’s your name going on the Certificate.

[@bunnylove273]

Hi bud new subber here not a electrion but that looks bad?

[@ERIC-65]

Hey, the thumbnail says "Nuetral"!! 😄

[@HA05GER]

I know cheap leds can glow because of capacitance, im guessing its charging a capacitor enough to triger the light.

[@AcornElectron]

What did you use to cut through the textured coating on the ceiling board? Pad saw? Obviously you had it tested for asbestos before you cut it? 🙄

[@johngoard8272]

What a shambles Delroy that job was a nightmare and the work of the previous fellow should be reported - if you could eh?

[@anthonyridgley1819]

Delroy next time a rewire would be better 🤣🤣

[@mfx1]

LED lights flashing or coming on dimly are generally down to capacitance between wires, in this case the tiny current is likely charging slowly charging up a capacitor in the lights electronics until it reaches a high enough voltage for the light to come on, that discharges the capacitor and it goes off again, cycle repeats. it's better to fit the capacitor at the lamp end, not the switch end or a resistor, again at the light end to soak up the current or change it for a better lamp kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2axhGxuoc2Sg5I .

[@jimmydemetriou7847]

As a customer, I am really concerned that ekectricians who do good work like you Delroy seem to be not reporting to the authority when you see a previous electrician has basically lied, or has been incompetent. What is the point of EICRs and the cost laid out by private owners, and especially landlords who could be accused of failing to ensure the electrics are safe in a rental property., if the work is not reliable at best or dangerous at worst? It's in the interest of the industry, electricians, and the consumer to clean up bad practice. We all know even the best can make mistakes, but mistakes are not the same as negligence and incompetence. All the electricians I watch on YT talk about this issue, but the consumer has no power or insight, usually, to do anything about it if bad work has been done. Surely, if evey electrician knew he would/could be exposed for bad practice, then your industry would improve, and even you would be safer in your job?

[@Михаиллеви]

There could be lots of reasons you don't report someone. It could be the same competent persons scheme as you. I know from personal experience trade bodies in other walks of life don't like hearing it unless it is very serious. The reporter entangles themselves in a potential mire. They could question your judgement on things. Estate agents push these cheapo EICRs to leave more money for them to skim off of the top. The customer should complain as they got this person in probably through some referral scheme.

[@jimmydemetriou7847]

@@Михаиллеви but customers are much less able to know if an electrician is doing their job properly. And, if you are afraid to rock the boat, so to speak, then what's the point of having a competent persons sceme. As for if it is serious, what do we wait for, a death?

[@Михаиллеви]

@@jimmydemetriou7847 electricians probably moan about each other to clients when they see questionable work but reporting someone no. The customer just has to tell the governing body they are unhappy and get them to check it over

[@johnxenofontos1058]

The reason why the rcd is not tripping is that he resistance is too high calculated Zs current is at 0.97ohms.

[@g.williamswilliams8442]

Re the high Zs... Take some covers off , Please ?

[@carlbrown2712]

why cant you run some new twin and earth to the kitchen light and connect to the chohbox??????

[@lewistempleman9752]

Theres no earth on the supply cables, only 2 core

[@newlinerealboi3434]

Sweeeet video

[@BritishEngineer]

You look like Eli Vance.

[@hilariohernandez340]

cannot be Voltage down neutral. problem with the switch, or induction. remember there needs to be a circuit .

[@Stu2be2]

Rule of thumb everything needs to be on rcd as of the 18th addition and as for the lighting in there I would rewire it but all that said shit recommend a rewire that lighting has to be 40 plus years old

[@zjzozn]

Megger are a Fluke if they work :-)

[@eicrcomplianceltd7590]

Funny enough I had the same problem but, I had 5 downlights and out of the five lights only one was giving the problem and there're all on the same circuit no driver, direct 230v change the fitting notting change, they gave me one of those silly things you had to put across L/N didn't work, dropped out the S/L leaving connected to neutral still sending voltage to the fitting 😡 when you find the answer let me know, the only solution I came up with the cable is connected to something else, the property lighting has no earthing, earthing had been used as neutral and this was passed by an electrician who had recently done an EICR👉 perfecto.

[@steverobinson8170]

Its an inductive current David Savery did a video on the subject

[@michaelagnew7825]

shared neutral

[@wilbertbirdner1303]

The guy that did the eicr didn't get out of the van

[@CbrigBear87]

painter and decorator would've had a ball with all that

[@charles99958]

that's the problem with old houses, there isn't any earth.

[@stevensmith4449]

Harmonics

[@Михаиллеви]

Subliminal Oliver Bonas advertising at 21.30. His wife supposedly ran off with Matt Hancock in episode 22 of series 8 of the covid soap opera. I prefer fact to fiction. Delroy. Lights camera action and permissible Zs of course

[@FNUKSTER1366]

Fly by eicr inspector , typical crap cheap .... enough said 🙁

[@mathman0101]

Nightmare jobs Del the place obviously need more work than client is willing to pay for.

[@adamsharp201]

13.42 connecting brown core to neutral connector